In article <7b1fecfda7a6d89d98d013b628df68ba@www.novabbs.com>,
quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> wrote:

I remember reading some time ago that a faster-than-light ship
designed using some derivative of the Alcubierre warp drive...
would devastate the distant solar system it was trying to visit
as soon as it tried to stop moving.
Ouch.

It wouldn't happen to be a Randall Garrett story, ... checking ... ,
"Time Fuze".

This recently suggested an idea to me.
What if beings in general, like us, are so desperate to achieve
FTL... that what almost always happens is that they end up blowing
up their home planet in their first attempt to launch an FTL
spaceship?
It might be that FTL is a bit trickier than we will realize when
the time comes.

OBSF reference: "Catspaw" by George O. Smith (ASF September 1948 issue, reprinted in _The Worlds of George O._ (Bantam Books, 1982).

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. —-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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Robert Woodward wrote:

quadibloc wrote:

I remember reading some time ago that a faster-than-light ship
designed using some derivative of the Alcubierre warp drive...
would devastate the distant solar system it was trying to visit
as soon as it tried to stop moving.
Ouch.

It wouldn't happen to be a Randall Garrett story, ... checking ... ,
"Time Fuze".

This recently suggested an idea to me.
What if beings in general, like us, are so desperate to achieve
FTL... that what almost always happens is that they end up blowing
up their home planet in their first attempt to launch an FTL
spaceship?
It might be that FTL is a bit trickier than we will realize when
the time comes.

OBSF reference: "Catspaw" by George O. Smith (ASF September 1948 issue, reprinted in _The Worlds of George O._ (Bantam Books, 1982).

A flying saucer blows up the whole durned universe in SLAUGHTERHOUSE-
FIVE by Vonnegut:

"How-how does the Universe end?" said Billy.

"We blow it up, experimenting with new fuels for our flying
saucers. A Tralfamadorian test pilot presses a starter button,
and the whole Universe disappears." So it goes.

Alcubierre's warp drive does not contain "closed causal curves,"
concludes its creator. [1] Is it crazy to say the Tralfamadorian
universe is also not closed?

"If You know this," said Billy, "isn't there some way you can
prevent it? Can't you keep the pilot from pressing the button?"

"He has always pressed it, and he always will. We always let
him and we always will let him. The moment is structured that
way."

Note.

[1] <https://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0009013>

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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On 2025-03-02, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> wrote:

What if beings in general, like us, are so desperate to achieve
FTL... that what almost always happens is that they end up blowing
up their home planet in their first attempt to launch an FTL
spaceship?

In the German _Terranauten_ series, the evil corporations used
funnel-shaped "Kaiserkraft"[1] FTL spaceships that would--insert
technobabble about "entropy"--destroy the fabric of the universe
as a side effect. Talk about pollution. There was some psionic-organic-something environmentally friendly alternative used
by the good guys.


[1] I only caught the paperback tail-end of the series and never
read the original pulps, so I don't really know what "Kaiserkraft"
was supposed to be and how to render it in English. Maybe
"Kaiser force", named after its inventor? The literal meaning
of "Kaiser", emperor, seems unlikely in this context, but I
simply don't know.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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On Sun, 2 Mar 2025 22:15:57 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

On 2025-03-02, quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> wrote:

What if beings in general, like us, are so desperate to achieve
FTL... that what almost always happens is that they end up blowing
up their home planet in their first attempt to launch an FTL
spaceship?

In the German _Terranauten_ series, the evil corporations used
funnel-shaped "Kaiserkraft"[1] FTL spaceships that would--insert
technobabble about "entropy"--destroy the fabric of the universe
as a side effect. Talk about pollution. There was some >psionic-organic-something environmentally friendly alternative used
by the good guys.

[1] I only caught the paperback tail-end of the series and never
read the original pulps, so I don't really know what "Kaiserkraft"
was supposed to be and how to render it in English. Maybe
"Kaiser force", named after its inventor? The literal meaning
of "Kaiser", emperor, seems unlikely in this context, but I
simply don't know.

Using Bing suggests it is all about office supplies.

But that probably has nothing to do with the book.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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Lynn McGuire wrote:

quadibloc wrote:

I remember reading some time ago that a faster-than-light ship
designed using some derivative of the Alcubierre warp drive...
would devastate the distant solar system it was trying to visit
as soon as it tried to stop moving.
Ouch.
This recently suggested an idea to me.
What if beings in general, like us, are so desperate to achieve
FTL... that what almost always happens is that they end up blowing
up their home planet in their first attempt to launch an FTL
spaceship?
It might be that FTL is a bit trickier than we will realize when
the time comes.

John Savard

I like the Perry Rhodan, Red Thunder, and several other books solution.

There is no such thing as FTL. However, there is a means of translating yourself from one sets of universe coordinates to another set of
universe coordinates instantaneously.

The wake of Perry Rhodan hyperspace drives shares similarities with the Alcubierre warp drive.



Excerpt from DIE GEISTER VON GOL German original:

Sendungen!

Jemand saß in der Nähe des Berges, von dem der Orter
vorhin behauptet hatte, sein Gipfel liege zwanzig
Kilometer über Normalniveau, und sendete mit den
gleichen Raumverzerrungseffekten, die bei der
Transition eines Raumschiffes völlig ungewollt
auftraten und sich bisher einer Beeinflussung durch
den Menschen – man müsste ein neues Wort finden,
überlegte Rhodan, man kann nicht alles Menschen
nennen, was intelligent ist – erfolgreich entzogen
hatten. Er sendete nicht nur, sondern er hatte den
Effekt zuvor auch noch moduliert, wie das Muster
auf dem Oszillographenschirm bewies.



Associated Ackerman Ace translation from THE GHOSTS OF GOL:

Transmissions!

Somebody was present in the neighbourhood of the
mountain the peak of which, so the navigator claimed,
was twelve miles above the normal level and was
sending the same space-warping effects which occurred
at the transition of a spaceship. They were unwanted
side effects which could not be controlled by mankind.



An alternative to Neinstein's time-eaten cosmic speed limit:

Superluminal Electromagnetic and Gravitational Fields
Generated in the Nearfield of Dipole Sources

<https://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0603240>

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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On 2025-03-03, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

I like the Perry Rhodan, Red Thunder, and several other books solution.

There is no such thing as FTL. However, there is a means of translating yourself from one sets of universe coordinates to another set of
universe coordinates instantaneously.

If you move from A to B in less time than light takes to travel
that distance, it's FTL. Doesn't matter _how_.

Also, I think around the _Perry Rhodan_ volumes you've last reviewed,
people are starting to feel that the jump drives are inconvenient
and that the Druuf drives are superior. Now, what has happened
every single time before when the Terrans ran into an opponent with
superior technology? Enjoy #100.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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On 2025-03-05, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

Wait, are you talking about #100 of the Ackerman Perry Rhodans (which is
the German Perry Rhodan #108 ?
Or #100 of the German Perry Rhodans ?

I always refer to the original German numbering.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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In article <7b1fecfda7a6d89d98d013b628df68ba@www.novabbs.com>,
quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> wrote:

I remember reading some time ago that a faster-than-light ship
designed using some derivative of the Alcubierre warp drive...
would devastate the distant solar system it was trying to visit
as soon as it tried to stop moving.
Ouch.

There was an SF story... Our Heros, in their brand new warp
drive ship, travel to some other star system, and the star
is in the process of supernovaing. Oops, that was really bad
luck, better warp out of her really quickly. So they go back
to Earth, and the Sun is supernovaing. The drive is doing it.

I'm not sure who wrote that; it was a long time ago.

The Alcubierre drive, assuming you can get negative mass in
cosmological quantities to power it, even if it didn't
destroy the destination, would seem to have rather negative
consequences for anything between here and there.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

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On 2025-03-08, Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

There was an SF story... Our Heros, in their brand new warp
drive ship, travel to some other star system, and the star
is in the process of supernovaing. Oops, that was really bad
luck, better warp out of her really quickly. So they go back
to Earth, and the Sun is supernovaing. The drive is doing it.

Randall Garrett, "Time Fuze" (1954)
Already mentioned in an earlier reply by Robert Woodward.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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In article <slrnvse8ls.s38.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

If you move from A to B in less time than light takes to travel
that distance, it's FTL. Doesn't matter _how_.

Also, if you can move from A to B in less time than light takes
to travel that distance, then accelerate towards A, then travel
from B to A in less time than light takes, it doesn't matter how,
you have traveled into the past.

When that was finally explained to me in a way that I understood
*why*, it was a major "ARGH!" moment. I want my FTL. But I don't
believe in time travel into the past.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

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On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 03:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

In article <slrnvse8ls.s38.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

If you move from A to B in less time than light takes to travel
that distance, it's FTL. Doesn't matter _how_.

Also, if you can move from A to B in less time than light takes
to travel that distance, then accelerate towards A, then travel
from B to A in less time than light takes, it doesn't matter how,
you have traveled into the past.

When that was finally explained to me in a way that I understood
*why*, it was a major "ARGH!" moment. I want my FTL. But I don't
believe in time travel into the past.

You could, I suppose, adopt the Marvel approach: you can't travel into
the past because it is not /your/ past, that is, your life continues
in one continuous line regardless of what the external dating may be.

IOW, when you remember /your/ life, it will be one continuous journey
forward in time, no matter how much time-travelling you undertook.

I didn't find that a particularly sane approach but, hey, what do you
want from a comic book publisher?
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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In article <s8qdtj9hqe9jndjemgjdle5c9jrn8jup4h@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 03:26:13 -0000 (UTC), Mike Van Pelt ><usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

Also, if you can move from A to B in less time than light takes
to travel that distance, then accelerate towards A, then travel
from B to A in less time than light takes, it doesn't matter how,
you have traveled into the past.

You could, I suppose, adopt the Marvel approach: you can't travel into
the past because it is not /your/ past, that is, your life continues
in one continuous line regardless of what the external dating may be.

IOW, when you remember /your/ life, it will be one continuous journey
forward in time, no matter how much time-travelling you undertook.

I didn't find that a particularly sane approach but, hey, what do you
want from a comic book publisher?

Yeah, comic book physics ...

The workaround I'm contemplating is that FTL jumps simply
aren't possible outide one preferred frame of reference.

Substantial normal-space delta-V required; you must be
stationary with respect to the local star, and will arrive
that way at the destination star. Locations not close enough
to a star are inaccessible via jump.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

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