• (ReacTor) The System Works

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 17 16:12:14 2025
    The System Works: Five SFF Organizations and Institutions Worth Defending

    Not all systems and bureaucracies are corrupt.

    https://reactormag.com/the-system-works-five-sff-organizations-and-institutions-worth-defending/
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Mon Mar 17 10:15:10 2025
    In article <vr9hku$kvm$1@reader1.panix.com>,
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

    The System Works: Five SFF Organizations and Institutions Worth Defending

    Not all systems and bureaucracies are corrupt.

    https://reactormag.com/the-system-works-five-sff-organizations-and-institution
    s-worth-defending/

    Bureaucracies can stay on track if kept FIRMLY in hand. However, it is
    my contention that the bigger a bureaucracy becomes, the less
    intelligent it behaves (thus the jokes about military intelligence).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ‹-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Mon Mar 17 19:38:08 2025
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 3/17/2025 11:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    The System Works: Five SFF Organizations and Institutions Worth Defending

    Not all systems and bureaucracies are corrupt.

    https://reactormag.com/the-system-works-five-sff-organizations-and-institutions-worth-defending/

    One for five. I love "The Star Beast". It is one of my six star out of
    five star books.

    _The Adolescence of P-1_ is one of my favorites. It anticipated early artificial intelligence.

    _The Two Faces of Tomorrow_ by James P. Hogan is an almost prescient
    tale about developing an AI. Some rather interesting parallels with
    the modern machine learning exercises incorrectly called artifical intelligence.

    Of course one would would be remiss to leave out D.F. Jones _Colossus_ et alia.

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  • From Jay Morris@21:1/5 to Scott Lurndal on Mon Mar 17 17:36:26 2025
    On 3/17/2025 2:38 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
    On 3/17/2025 11:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    The System Works: Five SFF Organizations and Institutions Worth Defending >>>
    Not all systems and bureaucracies are corrupt.

    https://reactormag.com/the-system-works-five-sff-organizations-and-institutions-worth-defending/

    One for five. I love "The Star Beast". It is one of my six star out of
    five star books.

    _The Adolescence of P-1_ is one of my favorites. It anticipated early artificial intelligence.

    _The Two Faces of Tomorrow_ by James P. Hogan is an almost prescient
    tale about developing an AI. Some rather interesting parallels with
    the modern machine learning exercises incorrectly called artifical intelligence.

    Of course one would would be remiss to leave out D.F. Jones _Colossus_ et alia.

    I think four of five, which may be a first for me. Don't know the P-1,
    two sound familiar, and two I know I've read.

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Robert Woodward on Mon Mar 17 23:23:25 2025
    Robert Woodward wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:

    The System Works: Five SFF Organizations and Institutions Worth Defending

    Not all systems and bureaucracies are corrupt.

    <https://reactormag.com/the-system-works-five-sff-organizations-and-institutions-worth-defending/>

    Bureaucracies can stay on track if kept FIRMLY in hand. However, it is
    my contention that the bigger a bureaucracy becomes, the less
    intelligent it behaves (thus the jokes about military intelligence).

    You share the optimism of THE PROTESTANT ETHIC AND THE SPIRIT OF
    CAPITALISM by Weber. He posits an "iron cage" metaphor to encapsulate modernity, bureaucracy, and individual agency. Judicious intervention emancipates individualism inside the iron cage built by bureaucracy.

    The past in THE GOLDEN AGE by Wright [1] also auspiciously agrees
    with Weber. Unfortunately a gilded "iron cage" takes over in the far
    future.

    "Among the Neptunians, Phaethon is a savior. If other
    stars had living worlds, it is we who could pioneer
    them. Immortality is a golden cage for you; who among
    you would dare to travel far beyond the noumenal
    mentality, beyond the sight and wisdom of the Sophotechs,
    beyond any hope for resurrection? Who except for
    Phaethon? Who else? We Neptunians. Listen."

    Note.

    [1] <https://scifiwright.com/samples/fic/golden-age-trilogy/the-golden-age>

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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  • From Mike Van Pelt@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Thu Mar 27 16:32:51 2025
    In article <robertaw-A4A11E.10151017032025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    Bureaucracies can stay on track if kept FIRMLY in hand. However, it is
    my contention that the bigger a bureaucracy becomes, the less
    intelligent it behaves (thus the jokes about military intelligence).

    Ah, but who will bell the cat?

    Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy:

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the
    bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to
    the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have
    less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    I suspect bureaucracies might be considered to be behaving
    intelligently if you take into account that their purpose
    is entirely to expand the scope, power, and resources of the
    bureaucracy, and nothing else.
    --
    Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
    mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
    KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to usenet@mikevanpelt.com on Thu Mar 27 16:45:56 2025
    In article <vs3uji$ksdm$1@dont-email.me>,
    Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
    In article <robertaw-A4A11E.10151017032025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    Bureaucracies can stay on track if kept FIRMLY in hand. However, it is
    my contention that the bigger a bureaucracy becomes, the less
    intelligent it behaves (thus the jokes about military intelligence).

    Ah, but who will bell the cat?

    Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy:

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the
    bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to
    the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have
    less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    I suspect bureaucracies might be considered to be behaving
    intelligently if you take into account that their purpose
    is entirely to expand the scope, power, and resources of the
    bureaucracy, and nothing else.

    I believe almost forgotten Hugo winner Mark Clifton wrote of this
    though the story name escapes me. (It wouldn't have been _They'd
    Rather Be Right_ since I never read that (though I suppose he could
    have also had the trope there)).
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to Mike Van Pelt on Thu Mar 27 10:06:26 2025
    In article <vs3uji$ksdm$1@dont-email.me>,
    Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

    In article <robertaw-A4A11E.10151017032025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    Bureaucracies can stay on track if kept FIRMLY in hand. However, it is
    my contention that the bigger a bureaucracy becomes, the less
    intelligent it behaves (thus the jokes about military intelligence).

    Ah, but who will bell the cat?

    Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy:

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the
    bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to
    the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have
    less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.


    I am bit more optimistic then he was in that it I am assuming (hoping
    that it is possible) that a bureaucracy can be forced to stay focused on
    what it is supposed to accomplish. It does require significant effort
    from higher authority (who are NEVER selected from the bureaucrats in question). BTW, if "FIRMLY" requires executing 1% of the bureaucrats
    every decade, you must execute that many.

    I suspect bureaucracies might be considered to be behaving
    intelligently if you take into account that their purpose
    is entirely to expand the scope, power, and resources of the
    bureaucracy, and nothing else.

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ‹-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stephen Harker@21:1/5 to Mike Van Pelt on Fri Mar 28 05:07:35 2025
    Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> writes:

    In article <robertaw-A4A11E.10151017032025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    [...]

    Ah, but who will bell the cat?

    Pournelle's iron law of bureaucracy:

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the
    bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to
    the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have
    less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.

    I suspect bureaucracies might be considered to be behaving
    intelligently if you take into account that their purpose
    is entirely to expand the scope, power, and resources of the
    bureaucracy, and nothing else.

    Reminds me of Eric Frank Russell's _Study in Still Life_ (short story),

    --
    Stephen Harker sjharker@aussiebroadband.com.au

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  • From vallor@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 28 05:52:12 2025
    On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 14:19:58 -0500, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
    wrote in <vr9skt$ot1r$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 3/17/2025 11:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    The System Works: Five SFF Organizations and Institutions Worth
    Defending

    Not all systems and bureaucracies are corrupt.

    https://reactormag.com/the-system-works-five-sff-organizations-and- institutions-worth-defending/

    One for five. I love "The Star Beast". It is one of my six star out of
    five star books.

    Lynn

    I, too, love "The Star Beast". I've used it to test ChatGPT.

    A while ago, it would hallucinate all kinds of descriptions for
    Lummox. Later, the description got better, but it still missed
    my question about "hands". I just checked, and was surprised
    that now it gets the "hands" question right. ("Did Lummox have hands?")
    So it's learning.

    --
    -v

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Tue May 27 13:20:35 2025
    On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 10:06:26 -0700, Robert Woodward
    <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the
    bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to
    the goals that the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have
    less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely.


    I am bit more optimistic then he was in that it I am assuming (hoping
    that it is possible) that a bureaucracy can be forced to stay focused on
    what it is supposed to accomplish. It does require significant effort
    from higher authority (who are NEVER selected from the bureaucrats in >question). BTW, if "FIRMLY" requires executing 1% of the bureaucrats
    every decade, you must execute that many.

    If you read up (or watch Youtube) you would be very depressed about
    the British "Quangos" (acronym for "quasi-autonomous non-governmental organizations") particularly the ones engaging in sexually
    transitioning pre-pubescents.

    "Quasi-autonomous" meaning "paid for by the taxpayer but responsible
    to their boards, NOT the public via governments"

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