On 27/07/2025 22:50, Melissa Hollingsworth wrote:
Verily, in article <10665k7$1uu9o$1@dont-email.me>, did agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM deliver unto us this message:
On 27/07/2025 14:43, Melissa Hollingsworth wrote:
Verily, in article <10647bl$1kkg7$1@dont-email.me>, did
agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM deliver unto us this message:
It was already established in Logopolis that the Watcher was created by >>>> the Doctor in order to pilot the TARDIS and keep Adric, Nyssa, and
Teegan safe while the universe was collapsing piece by piece and the
Doctor was with the Master in the Master's TARDIS and trying to send a >>>> signal to fix the universe from the Bernard Lovell Telescope back on
Earth. Having seen the Watcher at the start of the story the Doctor
worked out that it was himself in an , knew he
was going to regenerate very soon and created a paradox.
Where is this established? I've seen Logopolis multiple times and never
noticed any such scene.
Towards the end of episode 1 and in the last third of episode 4. Why
else would Tom Baker tell Adric, Nyssa, and Teegen to go with the
Watcher and he will keep them safe?
Well, my take on it is that the Watcher was, essentially, more
reincarnations walking around. The Doctor presumably knew that. He looks weirded out by the Watcher, which is understandable -- the Watcher is
there so he can regenerate, but that means he's going to die, which
still sucks.
The Watcher merges with the Doctor before he regenerates into Peter
Davison because he's an inter-regenerational projection of the Doctor
himself. This is how regeneration was supposed to work since the concept
was introduced in Planet of the Spiders. There was no such thing called regeneration before that, only renewal and altering of appearance.
"The Abbot K’anpo then also materialises, having regenerated into the
form of Cho-je, who was in fact a tulpa generated by K’anpo Rimpoche - a secret earlier revealed by the Abbot to the Doctor and Sarah Jane. He
tells them the Doctor can yet survive, by regenerating. Although he will
look quite different. K’anpo initiates the process with a little push,
and before their very eyes the Doctor begins to change... "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Spiders
That's very similar to your take, except I said they were originally
needed because of the Morbius Doctors, and you say the Watcher was
created by the Doctor to pilot the TARDIS. Also, my take explains why
the Watcher had to walk over and merge with the Doctor.
The concept of the Watcher comes from Planet of the Spiders and there
were never any incarnations of the Doctor before William Hartnell or regenerations of him until Jon Pertwee regenerates into Tom Baker with
the assistance of K’anpo/Cho-je. The idea of there being regenerations
before Tom Baker is a retcon inserted into Mawdryn Undead and then
confirmed in The Five Doctors with Richard Hurndall saying he was the
original and Davison being the 5th Doctor. And don't forget The Three
Doctors which confirms only 3 incarnations of the Doctor existed up to
Pertwee who is still not a regeneration because the concept of
regeneration didn't exist until Planet of the Spiders .
Come to think of it, Adric had already demonstrated the ability to pilot
the TARDIS. Why wouldn't the Doctor have just given safe coordinates to Adric? It would have been a lot less trouble than creating a glowing
Peter Davison, surely.
Adric didn't know how to take the TARDIS out of time which is what the
watcher needed to do to keep them safe.
Also, if creating a glowing TARDIS pilot is something the Doctor can do, you'd think he'd have done it at other times. There are quite a few
times that could have come in handy.
It could only be done before initiating a regeneration so the Doctor
would have to by dying of commit suicide to do this. Also the Valyard is supposed to be an inter-regenerational state or projection so the Doctor
must have done this between his 12th and 13th/final incarnation, ie.
between David Tennant and Matt Smith, that's if you count Pertwee and
Troughton as actual regenerations and accept all the bullshit about the
10th Doctor regenerating twice and the War Doctor.
Hmm, no, I'm sticking with my take being their intention at the time. I
All the major sources say the Watcher is identical to Cho-je who was an inter-regenerational projection generated by K’anpo before K’anpo regenerates into him.
do agree that this was retconned ages ago. I'm unconcerned with the
latest silly developments, so IMO One is the first in the current
continuity.
Doctor Who ended in 2017. Everything after that is all fan fic. and most
of Capaldi's run including Kill the Moon and everything that came after
it is fan fic. too so cannot be considered to be canon. There were no incarnations of the Doctor before William Hartnell. At best you could
assume that there might have been unseen and invisible
inter-regenerational projections between Hartnell and Troughton,
Troughton and Pertwee, and Pertwee and Tom Baker.
--
The True Doctor
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw
"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." --William Shatner
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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