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  • the spider's tunnel

    From Rich D@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 3 14:48:02 2023
    If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
    Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
    a possible entry point for spies?

    I mean, if he could build the baddest fortress in
    the world, he couldn't send a few orcs with large
    stones to block the entrance?

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to Julian Bradfield on Tue Apr 4 06:46:10 2023
    On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:24:12 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
    On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
    If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
    Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
    a possible entry point for spies?

    It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
    was very heavily guarded.
    Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
    is false too.

    The tunnel was indeed heavily guarded, but not by Sauron's slaves.
    There was no need.

    LotR in Book IV chapter 9: "It pleased [Sauron] that she should dwell
    there hungry but unabated in malice, a more sure watch upon that
    ancient path into his land than any other that his skill could have
    devised. And Orcs, they were useful slaves, but he had them in
    plenty. If now and again Shelob caught them to stay her appetite, she
    was welcome: he could spare them."

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
    https://BrownMath.com/
    Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
    Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
    FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
    Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Julian Bradfield@21:1/5 to Rich D on Tue Apr 4 13:24:12 2023
    On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
    If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
    Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
    a possible entry point for spies?

    It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
    was very heavily guarded.
    Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
    is false too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Julian Bradfield@21:1/5 to Stan Brown on Tue Apr 4 15:57:07 2023
    On 2023-04-04, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:24:12 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
    On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
    If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
    Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
    a possible entry point for spies?

    It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
    was very heavily guarded.
    Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
    is false too.

    The tunnel was indeed heavily guarded, but not by Sauron's slaves.
    There was no need.

    It was guarded by garrisons of Orcs both in the Morgul valley and on
    the Mordor side of the pass (and there were the Silent Watchers), as well
    as by Shelob. Frodo was taken to the tower when the Orcs found
    his poisoned body.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to Julian Bradfield on Tue Apr 4 10:15:34 2023
    On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:57:07 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:

    On 2023-04-04, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:24:12 +0000 (UTC), Julian Bradfield wrote:
    On 2023-04-03, Rich D <rdelaney2001@gmail.com> wrote:
    If Sauron was this all powerful, omniscient Really
    Smart Guy, why did he leave the tunnel open as
    a possible entry point for spies?

    It was useful for transit between Barad-dûr and Minas Morgul. And it
    was very heavily guarded.
    Of course, he was neither all powerful nor omniscient, so the premise
    is false too.

    The tunnel was indeed heavily guarded, but not by Sauron's slaves.
    There was no need.

    It was guarded by garrisons of Orcs both in the Morgul valley and on
    the Mordor side of the pass (and there were the Silent Watchers), as well
    as by Shelob. Frodo was taken to the tower when the Orcs found
    his poisoned body.

    You're partly right, I think. Sauron didn't have guards inside the
    tunnel, as far as we knew, but he did have guards in the Tower of
    Cirith Ungol at the upper end.

    The lower end wasn't effectively guarded, though: Gollum, Frodo, and
    Sam just walked in. Maybe somebody in Minas Morgul was supposed to be
    watching but didn't, or maybe Minas Morgul was standing empty after
    the Witch-King and his army marched west.

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
    https://BrownMath.com/
    Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
    Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
    FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
    Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)