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  • Re: Possible self-mockery in LotR?

    From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to michael.stemper@gmail.com on Thu Oct 17 08:50:42 2024
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written, alt.fan.tolkien

    On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 07:54:38 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    In LotR, Book V, Chapter 8, Aragorn says (in part) the following to
    Meriadoc:

    [...] If your pack has not been found, then you must send for
    the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he
    did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but
    that it is called _westmansweed_ by the vulgar, and _galenas_
    by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned,
    and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not
    understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none
    in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history
    of tongues. [...]

    Whew! That's quite a sentence.

    Is it possible that JRRT was indulging in a bit of self-mockery here,
    given his main area of study, as well as one of his reasons for writing
    LotR in the first place, was "the history of tongues"?

    He would certainly have been familiar with the type.

    But the stated reason for /LOTR/ is to follow up on the success of
    /The Hobbit/. At his publisher's urging, IIRC.

    And the purpose of the entire legendarium (of which the novels were
    offshoots) was to provide England with a mythology. This was, of
    course, when he was a young man and just starting out with /The Book
    of Lost Tales/.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Fri Oct 18 16:32:41 2024
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written, alt.fan.tolkien

    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    Is it possible that JRRT was indulging in a bit of self-mockery here,
    given his main area of study, as well as one of his reasons for writing
    LotR in the first place, was "the history of tongues"?

    Of course! There are a lot more little digs about scholars and especially language scholars in there too.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Louis Epstein@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Thu Nov 21 14:32:05 2024
    XPost: rec.arts.sf.written, alt.fan.tolkien

    In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 07:54:38 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    In LotR, Book V, Chapter 8, Aragorn says (in part) the following to >>Meriadoc:

    [...] If your pack has not been found, then you must send for
    the herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he
    did not know that the herb you desire had any virtues, but
    that it is called _westmansweed_ by the vulgar, and _galenas_
    by the noble, and other names in other tongues more learned,
    and after adding a few half-forgotten rhymes that he does not
    understand, he will regretfully inform you that there is none
    in the House, and he will leave you to reflect on the history
    of tongues. [...]

    Whew! That's quite a sentence.

    Is it possible that JRRT was indulging in a bit of self-mockery here,
    given his main area of study, as well as one of his reasons for writing >>LotR in the first place, was "the history of tongues"?

    He would certainly have been familiar with the type.

    But the stated reason for /LOTR/ is to follow up on the success of
    /The Hobbit/. At his publisher's urging, IIRC.

    And the purpose of the entire legendarium (of which the novels were offshoots) was to provide England with a mythology. This was, of
    course, when he was a young man and just starting out with /The Book
    of Lost Tales/.

    It has also been said that he came up with the languages first and
    the legends were a background made to suit them.

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

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