Hello!

I have some questions about Tom Bombadil.

After reading the LotR I would say the following:

- the hobbits don't know Tom;
- Tom doesn't cross his own borders, not even for free ale;
- Tom knows and meets Farmer Maggot (probably in the Old Forrest if
Buckland or the Marish aren't part of Tom's country), maybe he does
business with him; after all Tom has bread and butter but no cows or
corn fields;

So far, so good. But after finally getting my hands at the new version
of "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil", things aren't so clear anymore.

- the Buckland hobbits know Tom, the poems about Tom were written by
them;
- Tom Bombadil is a bucklandish name given to this strange woodman by
the Buckland hobbits;
- Tom visits the hobbits (including Farmer Maggot) from time to time
and likes to drink ale ;-)

So what now? If the mysterious woodman Tom Bombadil is so known to the
hobbits that they have givven him this name and are making poems about
him, why don't Merry and Frodo remember at least his name?

Can Tom cross his borders to visit friends? Or are Buckland and the
Marish part of his country? After all nothing is really said about the
borders.

Stephan

--
| Stephan Seitz E-Mail: stse+usenet@rootsland.net |
| If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it. |

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On 20 Oct 2024 13:50:30 GMT, Stephan Seitz <stse+usenet@rootsland.net>
wrote:

Hello!

I have some questions about Tom Bombadil.

After reading the LotR I would say the following:

- the hobbits don't know Tom;

The ones we encounter may not, but there are more Hobbits in the world
than just those.

- Tom doesn't cross his own borders, not even for free ale;

Only if the Barrows are inside his borders -- and didn't Tom wave
goodbye (as it were) before those were reached precisely because they
are not inside his borders? And yet, he rescues them from the Wights.

- Tom knows and meets Farmer Maggot (probably in the Old Forrest if
Buckland or the Marish aren't part of Tom's country), maybe he does
business with him; after all Tom has bread and butter but no cows or
corn fields;

So far, so good. But after finally getting my hands at the new version
of "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil", things aren't so clear anymore.

- the Buckland hobbits know Tom, the poems about Tom were written by
them;
- Tom Bombadil is a bucklandish name given to this strange woodman by
the Buckland hobbits;
- Tom visits the hobbits (including Farmer Maggot) from time to time
and likes to drink ale ;-)

The old version, IIRC, is much the same. But it has been quite some
time since I read it.

I suppose it depends, in part, on /when/ the poems were written by the
Hobbits in relation to the events in /LOTR/.

So what now? If the mysterious woodman Tom Bombadil is so known to the >hobbits that they have givven him this name and are making poems about
him, why don't Merry and Frodo remember at least his name?

Can Tom cross his borders to visit friends? Or are Buckland and the
Marish part of his country? After all nothing is really said about the >borders.

I think it is more a matter of not wanting to do so than not being
able to do so.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 08:29:36 -0700, Paul S Person wrote:

On 20 Oct 2024 13:50:30 GMT, Stephan Seitz <stse+usenet@rootsland.net>
wrote:

Can Tom cross his borders to visit friends? Or are Buckland and the
Marish part of his country? After all nothing is really said about the >borders.

I think it is more a matter of not wanting to do so than not being
able to do so.

At the Council of Elrond, Gandalf says of Tom:
"And NOW [my emphasis] he is withdrawn into a little land, within
bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for
a change of days, and he will not step beyond them."

That agrees with Paul's statement that he does not want to leave his
"little land". But I think Gandalf's "and now" means that Tom used to
go and visit Farmer Maggot and perhaps others, before Sauron became
so active and the Nazgûl crossed the Anduin.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
Guide to the Letters: https://www.tolkienguide.com/guide/letters/
FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

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Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

That agrees with Paul's statement that he does not want to leave his
"little land". But I think Gandalf's "and now" means that Tom used to
go and visit Farmer Maggot and perhaps others, before Sauron became
so active and the Nazgûl crossed the Anduin.

Well, Tom and Gandalf are immortal. Their "now" may have a completely
different meaning.

The second poem (here Tom visits Farmer Maggot) is said to take place
shortly before the events of the Ring War.

And I'm not even sure a character like Tom would know or care that the
Nazgûl crossed the River.

Stephan

--
| Stephan Seitz E-Mail: stse+usenet@rootsland.net |
| If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it. |

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Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On 20 Oct 2024 13:50:30 GMT, Stephan Seitz <stse+usenet@rootsland.net>
wrote:

I have some questions about Tom Bombadil.
After reading the LotR I would say the following:
- the hobbits don't know Tom;

The ones we encounter may not, but there are more Hobbits in the world
than just those.

Sorry, I meant in this case our four heroes who met Tom.

- Tom doesn't cross his own borders, not even for free ale;

Only if the Barrows are inside his borders -- and didn't Tom wave
goodbye (as it were) before those were reached precisely because they
are not inside his borders? And yet, he rescues them from the Wights.

He waved goodbye from his house. And he gave the hobbits the
"summoning spell" for the next day. I doubt that it would work in Bree
or Moria. So the Barrows have to be inside his borders.

I suppose it depends, in part, on /when/ the poems were written by the Hobbits in relation to the events in /LOTR/.

The first poem was written long before LotR, the second poem after the
War but with content shortly before the War.

Can Tom cross his borders to visit friends? Or are Buckland and the
Marish part of his country? After all nothing is really said about the >>borders.

I think it is more a matter of not wanting to do so than not being
able to do so.

Yes, certainly. Tom is making is own borders. The question is more how
strict is he with his own rules.

Stephan

--
| Stephan Seitz E-Mail: stse+usenet@rootsland.net |
| If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it. |

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XPost: alt.fan.tolkien

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On 20 Oct 2024 13:50:30 GMT, Stephan Seitz <stse+usenet@rootsland.net>
wrote:

Hello!

I have some questions about Tom Bombadil.

After reading the LotR I would say the following:

- the hobbits don't know Tom;

The ones we encounter may not, but there are more Hobbits in the world
than just those.

- Tom doesn't cross his own borders, not even for free ale;

Only if the Barrows are inside his borders -- and didn't Tom wave
goodbye (as it were) before those were reached precisely because they
are not inside his borders? And yet, he rescues them from the Wights.

As I recall,Tom rescues the hobbits from the Barrow-Wight,
then points them toward Bree,but declines to go further with
them because THAT is beyond his borders.

- Tom knows and meets Farmer Maggot (probably in the Old Forrest if
Buckland or the Marish aren't part of Tom's country), maybe he does
business with him; after all Tom has bread and butter but no cows or
corn fields;

What would bring Maggot into the Old Forest?
A rather perilous milk delivery route.

So far, so good. But after finally getting my hands at the new version
of "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil", things aren't so clear anymore.

- the Buckland hobbits know Tom, the poems about Tom were written by
them;
- Tom Bombadil is a bucklandish name given to this strange woodman by
the Buckland hobbits;
- Tom visits the hobbits (including Farmer Maggot) from time to time
and likes to drink ale ;-)

The old version, IIRC, is much the same. But it has been quite some
time since I read it.

Is it unlikely that Tom would have mastered brewing on his own?
He had plenty of time to learn.

I suppose it depends, in part, on /when/ the poems were written by the Hobbits in relation to the events in /LOTR/.

So what now? If the mysterious woodman Tom Bombadil is so known to the >>hobbits that they have givven him this name and are making poems about
him, why don't Merry and Frodo remember at least his name?

Merry especially would be expected to know Brandybuck lore,
and Frodo lived there for decades as well,so this is a fair point.

Can Tom cross his borders to visit friends? Or are Buckland and the
Marish part of his country? After all nothing is really said about the >>borders.

I think it is more a matter of not wanting to do so than not being
able to do so.

Yes.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

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