A whole bunch of options are open.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?
On 7/9/23 10:50 AM, ScottW wrote:
A whole bunch of options are open.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?The Ukrainians did the math already.
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/9/23 10:50 AM, ScottW wrote:
A whole bunch of options are open.The Ukrainians did the math already.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?
A 10 million payment to Joe = .......
On 7/9/23 7:45 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/9/23 10:50 AM, ScottW wrote:
A whole bunch of options are open.The Ukrainians did the math already.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?
A 10 million payment to Joe = .......Yes, complain he doesn't approve them soon enough, then hit him after
making the decision you wanted.
You'd think a bribed president would be more active on their behalf. Something equivalent to this, summarized in a July 19, 2016 NYT editorial:
https://www.cardin.senate.gov/news/the-republican-platform-and-ukraine/
From my foreign policy role in the Senate, I want to call attention to
the Republican Party’s apparently new position that the United States should not provide military assistance to Ukraine, as alluded to in its platform.
There is broad, bipartisan support for standing steadfast with Ukraine through political, economic and military support after Russia’s invasion two years ago. Russia’s aggression violated international law, robbed Ukraine of its sovereign territory, and killed and wounded thousands of people.
Mr. Trump speaks glowingly of President Vladimir V. Putin and
underestimates the damage done by Russia in Eastern Europe. It is also
worth pointing out that Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign chairman,
served as a consultant for Viktor F. Yanukovich, the ousted president of Ukraine, who now lives in exile in Russia.
Mr. Trump has already indicated that he is willing to walk away from our allies in Eastern Europe. It is unfortunate that the Republican Party
now reflects that dangerous thinking.
BEN CARDIN
On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 12:17:03 PM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/9/23 7:45 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/9/23 10:50 AM, ScottW wrote:
A whole bunch of options are open.The Ukrainians did the math already.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?
A 10 million payment to Joe = .......Yes, complain he doesn't approve them soon enough, then hit him after making the decision you wanted.
You'd think a bribed president would be more active on their behalf. Something equivalent to this, summarized in a July 19, 2016 NYT editorial:
https://www.cardin.senate.gov/news/the-republican-platform-and-ukraine/
From my foreign policy role in the Senate, I want to call attention to
the Republican Party’s apparently new position that the United States should not provide military assistance to Ukraine, as alluded to in its platform.
There is broad, bipartisan support for standing steadfast with Ukraine through political, economic and military support after Russia’s invasion two years ago. Russia’s aggression violated international law, robbed Ukraine of its sovereign territory, and killed and wounded thousands of people.
Mr. Trump speaks glowingly of President Vladimir V. Putin and underestimates the damage done by Russia in Eastern Europe. It is also worth pointing out that Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign chairman,
served as a consultant for Viktor F. Yanukovich, the ousted president of Ukraine, who now lives in exile in Russia.
Mr. Trump has already indicated that he is willing to walk away from our allies in Eastern Europe. It is unfortunate that the Republican Party
now reflects that dangerous thinking.
BEN CARDINThank God old Ben is retiring, and that Commie Raskin isn't going
to go for it.
Raskin's daddy ran the commie think tank IPS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Raskin
They received funding from Moscow
On 7/9/23 7:45 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/9/23 10:50 AM, ScottW wrote:
A whole bunch of options are open.The Ukrainians did the math already.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?
A 10 million payment to Joe = .......Yes, complain he doesn't approve them soon enough, then hit him after
making the decision you wanted.
You'd think a bribed president would be more active on their behalf. Something equivalent to this, summarized in a July 19, 2016 NYT editorial:
https://www.cardin.senate.gov/news/the-republican-platform-and-ukraine/
From my foreign policy role in the Senate, I want to call attention to
the Republican Party’s apparently new position that the United States should not provide military assistance to Ukraine, as alluded to in its platform.
There is broad, bipartisan support for standing steadfast with Ukraine through political, economic and military support after Russia’s invasion two years ago. Russia’s aggression violated international law, robbed Ukraine of its sovereign territory, and killed and wounded thousands of people.
Mr. Trump speaks glowingly of President Vladimir V. Putin and
underestimates the damage done by Russia in Eastern Europe. It is also
worth pointing out that Paul Manafort, the Trump campaign chairman,
served as a consultant for Viktor F. Yanukovich, the ousted president of Ukraine, who now lives in exile in Russia.
Mr. Trump has already indicated that he is willing to walk away from our allies in Eastern Europe. It is unfortunate that the Republican Party
now reflects that dangerous thinking.
BEN CARDIN
Raskin's daddy ran the commie think tank IPS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Raskin
They received funding from Moscow
On 7/10/23 12:15 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
Raskin's daddy ran the commie think tank IPS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Raskin
They received funding from Moscow
Hmm. Wiki: In 1986, after six years of the Reagan administration, Sidney Blumenthal said that "Ironically, as IPS has declined in Washington influence, its stature has grown in conservative demonology. In the
Reagan era, the institute has loomed as a right-wing obsession and
received most of its publicity by serving as a target."
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/institute-for-policy-studies/
Funded by the Faberge cosmetics founder, a Russian emigre.
On 7/9/23 7:45 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/9/23 10:50 AM, ScottW wrote:
A whole bunch of options are open.The Ukrainians did the math already.
And if clusters aren't even used as clusters but drone dropped armor piercing grenades....then why not?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/9/2179932/-Ukraine-Update-With-cluster-munitions-approved-here-s-some-additional-munitions-the-US-could-send
Could the dud math be too much for Joe to handle?
A 10 million payment to Joe = .......Yes, complain he doesn't approve them soon enough, then hit him after
making the decision you wanted.
On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 7:59:11 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/10/23 12:15 PM, Art Sackman wrote:
Raskin's daddy ran the commie think tank IPS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Raskin
They received funding from Moscow
Hmm. Wiki: In 1986, after six years of the Reagan administration, Sidney
Blumenthal said that "Ironically, as IPS has declined in Washington
influence, its stature has grown in conservative demonology. In the
Reagan era, the institute has loomed as a right-wing obsession and
received most of its publicity by serving as a target."
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/institute-for-policy-studies/
dead link
Funded by the Faberge cosmetics founder, a Russian emigre.
can't tell who you are talking about
was it this guy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Luster
You should have watched Cuomo last night. A defense specialist, Dan
Rice (Former Special Adviser to Ukraine CiC) pointed out that he
advised Ukraine a year ago to request cluster munitions (not bombs
which are dropped from aircraft) and they did immediately. Took
Biden until now to approve.
As for the Republican party position on Ukraine. Yes...it is
splintered.
You should know mine by now. You should.
Aside from this....I see two messages with only "Message has been
deleted" on groups.google.com...
Just curious if anyone knows what those were. Next message is Art
Goodbye Benny Boy.
On 7/11/23 11:18 AM, ScottW wrote:
You should have watched Cuomo last night. A defense specialist, DanThanks for the background. You'll notice Biden is taking heat for the decision so one might guess he wasn't willing to decide earlier without agreement from NATO and other allies.
Rice (Former Special Adviser to Ukraine CiC) pointed out that he
advised Ukraine a year ago to request cluster munitions (not bombs
which are dropped from aircraft) and they did immediately. Took
Biden until now to approve.
As for the Republican party position on Ukraine. Yes...it is
splintered.
You should know mine by now. You should.
Aside from this....I see two messages with only "Message has beenI don't follow on google groups.
deleted" on groups.google.com...
Just curious if anyone knows what those were.
Goodbye Benny Boy.They're not on eternal-september.
On 7/11/23 11:18 AM, ScottW wrote:
You should have watched Cuomo last night. A defense specialist, DanThanks for the background. You'll notice Biden is taking heat for the decision so one might guess he wasn't willing to decide earlier without agreement from NATO and other allies.
Rice (Former Special Adviser to Ukraine CiC) pointed out that he
advised Ukraine a year ago to request cluster munitions (not bombs
which are dropped from aircraft) and they did immediately. Took
Biden until now to approve.
On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/11/23 11:18 AM, ScottW wrote:
You should have watched Cuomo last night. A defense specialist, DanThanks for the background. You'll notice Biden is taking heat for the
Rice (Former Special Adviser to Ukraine CiC) pointed out that he
advised Ukraine a year ago to request cluster munitions (not bombs
which are dropped from aircraft) and they did immediately. Took
Biden until now to approve.
decision so one might guess he wasn't willing to decide earlier without
agreement from NATO and other allies.
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MM munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about it.
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/11/23 11:18 AM, ScottW wrote:
You should have watched Cuomo last night. A defense specialist, DanThanks for the background. You'll notice Biden is taking heat for the
Rice (Former Special Adviser to Ukraine CiC) pointed out that he
advised Ukraine a year ago to request cluster munitions (not bombs
which are dropped from aircraft) and they did immediately. Took
Biden until now to approve.
decision so one might guess he wasn't willing to decide earlier without >> agreement from NATO and other allies.
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MM munitions firstSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,' suggests a flight
which is pretty stupid when you think about it.
of fancy on your part.
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MMSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,' suggests a
munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about it.
flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed Zakaria.
"And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow for this transition
period while we get more 155 weapons, these shells, for the
Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National security
to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another issue.
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:to allow for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these shells, for the Ukrainians."
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:57:53 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/11/23 11:18 AM, ScottW wrote:
You should have watched Cuomo last night. A defense specialist, Dan >>> Rice (Former Special Adviser to Ukraine CiC) pointed out that heThanks for the background. You'll notice Biden is taking heat for the >> decision so one might guess he wasn't willing to decide earlier without >> agreement from NATO and other allies.
advised Ukraine a year ago to request cluster munitions (not bombs
which are dropped from aircraft) and they did immediately. Took
Biden until now to approve.
Joe's words on CNNHis own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MM munitions firstSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,' suggests a flight of fancy on your part.
which is pretty stupid when you think about it.
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed Zakaria. "And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National security to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another issue.
ScottW
On 7/12/23 11:07 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MMSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,' suggests a
munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about it.
flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed Zakaria.
"And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these shells, for the
Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National securityThat doesn't support your paraphrase. To be specific, Biden didn't say
to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another issue.
he "wanted" to run out of ammunition.
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 9:35:38 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/12/23 11:07 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:That doesn't support your paraphrase. To be specific, Biden didn't
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MMSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,'
munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about
it.
suggests a flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of
that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed
Zakaria. "And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation
of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow
for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these
shells, for the Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National
security to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another
issue.
say he "wanted" to run out of ammunition.
But he did it.
I If you want to argue Biden does things he doesn't want to do...I'm
not gonna argue with you. But in this case he did not need to deplete our > stocks if he'd released the cluster munitions 6 months ago.
We have a huge stock that we aren't likely to use even in a war with China which will be
almost entirely a sea and air war. We aren't going into China on
the ground and they aren't coming here.
On 7/12/23 7:26 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 9:35:38 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/12/23 11:07 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:That doesn't support your paraphrase. To be specific, Biden didn't
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MMSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,'
munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about
it.
suggests a flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of
that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed
Zakaria. "And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation
of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow
for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these
shells, for the Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National
security to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another
issue.
say he "wanted" to run out of ammunition.
But he did it.What? Run out of ammunition?
I If you want to argue Biden does things he doesn't want to do...I'mYou sometimes don't make sense.
not gonna argue with you. But in this case he did not need to deplete our > stocks if he'd released the cluster munitions 6 months ago.
On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 4:29:43 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/12/23 7:26 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 9:35:38 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:What? Run out of ammunition?
On 7/12/23 11:07 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:That doesn't support your paraphrase. To be specific, Biden didn't
On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MMSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,'
munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about
it.
suggests a flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of
that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed
Zakaria. "And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation
of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow
for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these
shells, for the Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National
security to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another
issue.
say he "wanted" to run out of ammunition.
But he did it.
He ran stocks down to dangerously low levels.
On 7/13/23 10:32 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 4:29:43 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/12/23 7:26 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 9:35:38 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:What? Run out of ammunition?
On 7/12/23 11:07 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote: >>>>>> On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:That doesn't support your paraphrase. To be specific, Biden didn't
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MMSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,'
munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think about
it.
suggests a flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of >>>>> that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed
Zakaria. "And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation
of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow >>>>> for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these
shells, for the Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National
security to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another
issue.
say he "wanted" to run out of ammunition.
But he did it.
He ran stocks down to dangerously low levels.Dangerous for who? You just said we weren't likely to need them.
On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 9:34:08 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
On 7/13/23 10:32 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 4:29:43 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:Dangerous for who? You just said we weren't likely to need them.
On 7/12/23 7:26 PM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 9:35:38 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:What? Run out of ammunition?
On 7/12/23 11:07 AM, ScottW wrote:
On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 5:20:32 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/11/23 10:05 PM, ScottW wrote:That doesn't support your paraphrase. To be specific, Biden didn't >>>>>> say he "wanted" to run out of ammunition.
His own comments indicate he wanted to drain our other 155MM >>>>>>>>> munitions first which is pretty stupid when you think aboutSo stupid I doubt it's the case. The word, 'indicate,'
it.
suggests a flight of fancy on your part.
Joe's words on CNN
"This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of >>>>>>> that ammunition, and we’re low on it," Biden told CNN's Fareed >>>>>>> Zakaria. "And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation
of the Defense Department to – not permanently – but to allow >>>>>>> for this transition period while we get more 155 weapons, these
shells, for the Ukrainians."
Not exactly brilliant and potentially a breach of National
security to reveal our lack of readiness, but that's another
issue.
But he did it.
He ran stocks down to dangerously low levels.
The cluster munitions you dumbfuck. We have a level of preparedness we maintain for
all sorts of deterrence. Biden depleted that.
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