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  • Shokin gets a chance to give his side of the story

    From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 25 16:49:52 2023
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12445811/Fired-Ukrainian-prosecutor-Shokin-says-Joe-Hunter-Biden-DID-BRIBES-ousting-Isnt-corruption-says-preview-bombshell-interview.html

    and the Biden WH is pissed.

    The White House is accusing Fox News of giving a 'platform to lies' by airing the interview.

    'For years, these false claims have been debunked, and no matter how much air time Fox gives them, they will remain false,' said White House spokesperson Ian Sams.

    'Fox is giving a platform for these lies to a former Ukrainian prosecutor general whose office his own deputy called 'a hotbed of corruption', drawing demands for reform not only from then-Vice President Biden but also from U.S. diplomats, international
    partners, and Republican Senators like Ron Johnson.'

    In December 2015, then-Vice President Joe Biden delivered a speech to the Ukrainian Rada during which he touted his anti-corruption efforts in the country and urged an overhaul and reform of the office of the general prosecutor.

    and I love this tidbit....they won't even takes Joe's word for anything as they call it "alleged".

    A few months later in March 2016, Joe Biden is alleged to have threatened to withhold $1 billion in aid to Ukraine if Shokin specifically was not fired for corruption - and he was shortly thereafter.

    Years later, Biden actually bragged about his firing at a Council on Foreign Relations event in 2018.

    I guess Joe alleges too much to be taken as credible.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Aug 26 07:09:12 2023
    On 8/25/23 6:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12445811/Fired-Ukrainian-prosecutor-Shokin-says-Joe-Hunter-Biden-DID-BRIBES-ousting-Isnt-corruption-says-preview-bombshell-interview.html

    and the Biden WH is pissed.

    The White House is accusing Fox News of giving a 'platform to lies'
    by airing the interview.

    'For years, these false claims have been debunked, and no matter how
    much air time Fox gives them, they will remain false,' said White
    House spokesperson Ian Sams.

    'Fox is giving a platform for these lies to a former Ukrainian
    prosecutor general whose office his own deputy called 'a hotbed of corruption', drawing demands for reform not only from then-Vice
    President Biden but also from U.S. diplomats, international partners,
    and Republican Senators like Ron Johnson.'

    To be fair, Murdoch's print media are also spreading the lies.

    In December 2015, then-Vice President Joe Biden delivered a speech to
    the Ukrainian Rada during which he touted his anti-corruption efforts
    in the country and urged an overhaul and reform of the office of the
    general prosecutor.

    and I love this tidbit....they won't even takes Joe's word for
    anything as they call it "alleged".

    Libel laws are looser in the UK.

    A few months later in March 2016, Joe Biden is alleged to have
    threatened to withhold $1 billion in aid to Ukraine if Shokin
    specifically was not fired for corruption - and he was shortly
    thereafter.

    "Alleged" is a good choice here, as Biden's visit was in December, 2015.

    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/12/09/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-ukrainian-rada

    You'll notice he calls for reforms but doesn't say "fire Shokin." That arm-twisting was done in private.

    March, 2016 is when Shokin was forced out.

    Years later, Biden actually bragged about his firing at a Council on
    Foreign Relations event in 2018.

    What "actually"? The US, the EU and the IMF wanted Shokin, who was also
    the subject of street protests by Ukrainians, out.

    I guess Joe alleges too much to be taken as credible.

    The Daily Mail's use of the word 'allegation' isn't a measure of
    credibility.

    You repeat a failed point. Biden is correct that these are long
    debunked. October, 2020:

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/trump-revives-false-narrative-on-biden-and-ukraine/

    and that was a 'revival.'

    Shokin's connection to Giuliani and Firtash is questionable:

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/10/how-an-indicted-oligarch-became-a-key-player-in-trumps-ukraine-scandal/

    False allegations made without evidence about Biden in September, 2019.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/22/772170395/ukrainian-oligarch-has-links-to-people-associated-with-trump

    "LUCAS: Right. Shokin is the guy who was pushed out of office in 2016
    under pressure from the United States and other Western governments. He
    is viewed as being ineffective in combating corruption, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden led the U.S. push on that. And it's Shokin's
    dismissal that's at the heart of Rudy Giuliani's unsubstantiated
    allegations against Biden and his son, Hunter, tied to Ukraine. Now the interesting thing here is that Giuliani has been holding up Shokin's
    affidavit, waving it around on TV here in the United States to support
    his allegations against the Bidens."

    Shokin helped Firtash fight US extradition by giving papers to Giuliani.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 26 10:17:39 2023
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 5:09:19 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/25/23 6:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12445811/Fired-Ukrainian-prosecutor-Shokin-says-Joe-Hunter-Biden-DID-BRIBES-ousting-Isnt-corruption-says-preview-bombshell-interview.html

    and the Biden WH is pissed.

    The White House is accusing Fox News of giving a 'platform to lies'
    by airing the interview.

    'For years, these false claims have been debunked, and no matter how
    much air time Fox gives them, they will remain false,' said White
    House spokesperson Ian Sams.

    'Fox is giving a platform for these lies to a former Ukrainian
    prosecutor general whose office his own deputy called 'a hotbed of corruption', drawing demands for reform not only from then-Vice
    President Biden but also from U.S. diplomats, international partners,
    and Republican Senators like Ron Johnson.'
    To be fair, Murdoch's print media are also spreading the lies.
    In December 2015, then-Vice President Joe Biden delivered a speech to
    the Ukrainian Rada during which he touted his anti-corruption efforts
    in the country and urged an overhaul and reform of the office of the general prosecutor.

    and I love this tidbit....they won't even takes Joe's word for
    anything as they call it "alleged".
    Libel laws are looser in the UK.
    A few months later in March 2016, Joe Biden is alleged to have
    threatened to withhold $1 billion in aid to Ukraine if Shokin
    specifically was not fired for corruption - and he was shortly
    thereafter.
    "Alleged" is a good choice here, as Biden's visit was in December, 2015.

    Duh....is your memory so flawed you can't even recall back ONE paragraph?
    The visit was in Dec 2015 (see above), the allegations surfaced in March 2016.

    Allegations which Joe himself confirmed in 2018.

    Years later, Biden actually bragged about his firing at a Council on Foreign Relations event in 2018.
    Biden said that he would withhold a billion dollars in U.S. aid if the Ukrainians did not agree to fire Shokin.
    'I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money,' Biden said.
    'Well, son of a b****. He got fired,' he continued.

    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Aug 26 14:51:07 2023
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 5:09:19 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/25/23 6:49 PM, ScottW wrote:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12445811/Fired-Ukrainian-prosecutor-Shokin-says-Joe-Hunter-Biden-DID-BRIBES-ousting-Isnt-corruption-says-preview-bombshell-interview.html



    and the Biden WH is pissed.

    The White House is accusing Fox News of giving a 'platform to
    lies' by airing the interview.

    'For years, these false claims have been debunked, and no matter
    how much air time Fox gives them, they will remain false,' said
    White House spokesperson Ian Sams.

    'Fox is giving a platform for these lies to a former Ukrainian
    prosecutor general whose office his own deputy called 'a hotbed
    of corruption', drawing demands for reform not only from
    then-Vice President Biden but also from U.S. diplomats,
    international partners, and Republican Senators like Ron
    Johnson.'
    To be fair, Murdoch's print media are also spreading the lies.
    In December 2015, then-Vice President Joe Biden delivered a
    speech to the Ukrainian Rada during which he touted his
    anti-corruption efforts in the country and urged an overhaul and
    reform of the office of the general prosecutor.

    and I love this tidbit....they won't even takes Joe's word for
    anything as they call it "alleged".
    Libel laws are looser in the UK.
    A few months later in March 2016, Joe Biden is alleged to have
    threatened to withhold $1 billion in aid to Ukraine if Shokin
    specifically was not fired for corruption - and he was shortly
    thereafter.
    "Alleged" is a good choice here, as Biden's visit was in December,
    2015.

    Duh....is your memory so flawed you can't even recall back ONE
    paragraph? The visit was in Dec 2015 (see above), the allegations
    surfaced in March 2016.

    I confirmed the December visit with a cite.

    Allegations which Joe himself confirmed in 2018.

    Since this isn't a criminal context, that word doesn't apply.

    Years later, Biden actually bragged about his firing at a Council on
    Foreign Relations event in 2018. Biden said that he would withhold a
    billion dollars in U.S. aid if the Ukrainians did not agree to fire
    Shokin. 'I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money,' Biden said.
    'Well, son of a b****. He got fired,' he continued.

    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.

    "Actually bragged," did he? How is that different from "bragged"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fascist Flea@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 26 15:20:39 2023
    mINE109 wrote:

    "Actually bragged," did he? How is that different from "bragged"?

    Witless was disoriented because Biden didn't claim to be a "very stable genius".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Mon Aug 28 10:49:49 2023
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:

    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.

    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2023/8/27/23847855/donald-trump-club-championship-victory-hysterical-reactions

    I don't know much about golf. Is 67 a likely score for a 77-year-old man?

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 09:09:57 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:49:55 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:
    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.
    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2023/8/27/23847855/donald-trump-club-championship-victory-hysterical-reactions

    I don't know much about golf. Is 67 a likely score for a 77-year-old man?

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf

    Lamest whataboutism ever. Truly pathetic.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fascist Flea@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 09:14:08 2023
    Witless demonstrates their appreciation of "humor" on the Dark Side.

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf
    Lamest whataboutism ever. Truly pathetic.

    boo-hoo-hoo. Witlessmongrel's hero is too sanctified to be the butt of a joke.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Mon Aug 28 11:41:44 2023
    On 8/28/23 11:09 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:49:55 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:
    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.
    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2023/8/27/23847855/donald-trump-club-championship-victory-hysterical-reactions

    I don't know much about golf. Is 67 a likely score for a 77-year-old man?

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf

    Lamest whataboutism ever. Truly pathetic.

    Not a whatabout. Compare and contrast.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-lies-false-presidency-b1790285.html

    "Final tally of lies: Analysts say Trump told 30,000 mistruths – that’s
    21 a day – during presidency"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 09:46:24 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/28/23 11:09 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:49:55 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:
    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.
    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2023/8/27/23847855/donald-trump-club-championship-victory-hysterical-reactions

    I don't know much about golf. Is 67 a likely score for a 77-year-old man? >>
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf

    Lamest whataboutism ever. Truly pathetic.
    Not a whatabout. Compare and contrast.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-lies-false-presidency-b1790285.html

    "Final tally of lies: Analysts say Trump told 30,000 mistruths – that’s 21 a day – during presidency"

    How much petty BS does it take to equal one of Joe's bribes?

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to Fascist Flea on Mon Aug 28 11:47:45 2023
    On 8/28/23 11:14 AM, Fascist Flea wrote:
    Witless demonstrates their appreciation of "humor" on the Dark Side.

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf
    Lamest whataboutism ever. Truly pathetic.

    boo-hoo-hoo. Witlessmongrel's hero is too sanctified to be the butt of a joke.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trump-the-serial-golf-cheat-in-the-white-house

    Wodehouse would have approved. In “Ordeal by Golf” his alter ego
    remarks, “I employed a lawyer for years until one day I saw him kick a
    ball out of his heel-mark. I removed my business from his charge next morning.”

    Whatabout Clinton?

    https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/13/john-daly-president-donald-trump-cheat-golf-bill-clinton/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Mon Aug 28 11:48:31 2023
    On 8/28/23 11:46 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 9:41:48 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/28/23 11:09 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 8:49:55 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:
    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.
    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2023/8/27/23847855/donald-trump-club-championship-victory-hysterical-reactions

    I don't know much about golf. Is 67 a likely score for a 77-year-old man? >>>>
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf

    Lamest whataboutism ever. Truly pathetic.
    Not a whatabout. Compare and contrast.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-lies-false-presidency-b1790285.html

    "Final tally of lies: Analysts say Trump told 30,000 mistruths – that’s >> 21 a day – during presidency"

    How much petty BS does it take to equal one of Joe's bribes?

    Silly. You can't divide zero.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fascist Flea@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 10:09:46 2023
    woof! BARKBARKBARK! <snarl...>

    "Final tally of lies: Analysts say Trump told 30,000 mistruths – that’s
    21 a day – during presidency"
    How much petty BS does it take to equal one of Joe's bribes?

    Over here in Reality, we have a clearer view.

    https://www.gocomics.com/chrisbritt/2023/08/16

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 28 18:40:23 2023
    On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 11:49:55 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 8/26/23 12:17 PM, ScottW wrote:
    But Joe's a liar and you can't believe anything he says.
    https://www.sbnation.com/golf/2023/8/27/23847855/donald-trump-club-championship-victory-hysterical-reactions

    I don't know much about golf. Is 67 a likely score for a 77-year-old man?

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/10-astonishing-claims-from-the-book-detailing-president-trumps-cheating-at-golf


    he hooks right, but it keeps him out of the swamp.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)