In addition to consumer furnaces, over the last several months, the DOE has unveiled new standards for a wide variety of other appliances including gas stoves, clothes washers, refrigerators and air conditioners.

According to the current federal Unified Agenda, a government-wide, semiannual list that highlights regulations agencies plan to propose or finalize within the next 12 months, the Biden administration is additionally moving forward with rules impacting
dozens more appliances, including pool pumps, battery chargers, ceiling fans and dehumidifiers.
(end snip)

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we find that our existing electric water heater is not acceptable. It has to be replaced with a heat pump water heater. The electric cost about $600. The heat pump water heater is $2300. Even
worse....the damn thing doesn't get the water nearly as hot so you'll never have really hot water again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an hour to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

ScottW

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we find
that our existing electric water heater is not acceptable. It has to
be replaced with a heat pump water heater. The electric cost about
$600. The heat pump water heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn
thing doesn't get the water nearly as hot so you'll never have really
hot water again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an
hour to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

Isn't keeping up to code an expected landlord's responsibility? Don't
electric water heaters last 15-20 years? Do you expect to pay 2010
prices to replace one?

It's a shame the monthly savings go to the tenant paying the electric bill.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:29:02 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we find
that our existing electric water heater is not acceptable. It has to
be replaced with a heat pump water heater. The electric cost about
$600. The heat pump water heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn
thing doesn't get the water nearly as hot so you'll never have really
hot water again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an
hour to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

Isn't keeping up to code an expected landlord's responsibility? Don't electric water heaters last 15-20 years? Do you expect to pay 2010
prices to replace one?

You're just dumber than dirt.
I could just replace my water heater but the remodel requires plans, permits and inspections
and that's where they force me to go to a heat pump.

But FWIW, here's Home Depot's most popular water heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-40-Gal-4500-Watt-Elements-Medium-Electric-Water-Heater-with-6-Year-Tank-Warranty-and-240-Volt-XE40M06ST45U1/326434008

Check the price.

It's a shame the monthly savings go to the tenant paying the electric bill.

It's not for rent and we have no plans to peasant.

ScottW

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 9/30/23 6:53 PM, ScottW wrote:

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:29:02 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we find
that our existing electric water heater is not acceptable. It has to
be replaced with a heat pump water heater. The electric cost about
$600. The heat pump water heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn
thing doesn't get the water nearly as hot so you'll never have really
hot water again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an
hour to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

Isn't keeping up to code an expected landlord's responsibility? Don't
electric water heaters last 15-20 years? Do you expect to pay 2010
prices to replace one?

You're just dumber than dirt.

Show me otherwise about codes.

I could just replace my water heater but the remodel requires plans, permits and inspections
and that's where they force me to go to a heat pump.

So, yes, replacing your water heater requires you to conform to today's
code.

https://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/permits/plumbing-permit

You've opted for "Plan (required) Plumbing/Gas Permit"?

But FWIW, here's Home Depot's most popular water heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-40-Gal-4500-Watt-Elements-Medium-Electric-Water-Heater-with-6-Year-Tank-Warranty-and-240-Volt-XE40M06ST45U1/326434008

Check the price.

How much was it in 2010? Is that what you installed then?

It's a shame the monthly savings go to the tenant paying the electric bill.

It's not for rent and we have no plans to peasant.

You're remodeling "a house" without planning to rent? For resale? I'm
sure any buyer would prefer it being up to code.

If you own multiple homes there's no danger of you peasanting. Lording
is more likely.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 6:12:41 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/30/23 6:53 PM, ScottW wrote:

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:29:02 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we find
that our existing electric water heater is not acceptable. It has to
be replaced with a heat pump water heater. The electric cost about
$600. The heat pump water heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn
thing doesn't get the water nearly as hot so you'll never have really >>> hot water again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an
hour to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

Isn't keeping up to code an expected landlord's responsibility? Don't
electric water heaters last 15-20 years? Do you expect to pay 2010
prices to replace one?

You're just dumber than dirt.

Show me otherwise about codes.

Your stupidity is not in any code. We have a ton of new construction and remodel codes
that are not imposed upon existing buildings.
You think I should have to replumb my house because of the idiotic and wasteful 70's design
to provide hot water on demand?

I could just replace my water heater but the remodel requires plans, permits and inspections
and that's where they force me to go to a heat pump.

So, yes, replacing your water heater requires you to conform to today's code.

Remodeling my house does. I could and have replaced water heaters with comparable models.

https://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/permits/plumbing-permit

You've opted for "Plan (required) Plumbing/Gas Permit"?

What part of remodel is flying over your head?

But FWIW, here's Home Depot's most popular water heater.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-40-Gal-4500-Watt-Elements-Medium-Electric-Water-Heater-with-6-Year-Tank-Warranty-and-240-Volt-XE40M06ST45U1/326434008

Check the price.

How much was it in 2010? Is that what you installed then?

I don't know...that's your canary that flew the coop. I gave reasonable comparable today prices.

ScottW

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/1/23 10:29 AM, ScottW wrote:

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 6:12:41 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/30/23 6:53 PM, ScottW wrote:

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:29:02 AM UTC-7, mINE109
wrote:

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we
find that our existing electric water heater is not
acceptable. It has to be replaced with a heat pump water
heater. The electric cost about $600. The heat pump water
heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn thing doesn't get the
water nearly as hot so you'll never have really hot water
again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an hour
to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

Isn't keeping up to code an expected landlord's responsibility?
Don't electric water heaters last 15-20 years? Do you expect to
pay 2010 prices to replace one?

You're just dumber than dirt.

Show me otherwise about codes.

Your stupidity is not in any code. We have a ton of new
construction and remodel codes that are not imposed upon existing
buildings. You think I should have to replumb my house because of the
idiotic and wasteful 70's design to provide hot water on demand?

It sounds like something you've chosen to do, which requires permits
that have standards.

I could just replace my water heater but the remodel requires
plans, permits and inspections and that's where they force me to
go to a heat pump.

So, yes, replacing your water heater requires you to conform to
today's code.

Remodeling my house does. I could and have replaced water heaters
with comparable models.

https://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/permits/plumbing-permit


You've opted for "Plan (required) Plumbing/Gas Permit"?

What part of remodel is flying over your head?

"This permit is required for the alteration, addition or replacement of
a plumbing system or portion of a plumbing system within or on any
structure or premises and to comply with the minimum standards necessary
to safeguard public health, safety, and welfare."

Does the "remodel" include "the alteration, addition or replacement of a plumbing system or portion of a plumbing system'?

What kept you from simply replacing the electric water heater under the
"Simple "No-Plan" Plumbing/Gas Permit" option?

How much was it in 2010? Is that what you installed then?

I don't know...that's your canary that flew the coop. I gave
reasonable comparable today prices.

Since you phrased it referring to the old water heater's price, that
wasn't clear. I certainly believe you about the jump in cost from an
electric heat to a heat pump. I had a gas heater installed partly due to
the low initial cost, although bringing ventilation up to code doubled
that. If I had known natural gas would nearly double in only five years,
I might have considered electric or even a heat pump.

I see some of the local plumbing firms don't even offer them, but:

"Heat pump water heaters are so efficient they can pay for themselves
with energy savings in just 2 or 3 years. What's more, there are $1100
tax credits and attractive utility rebates"

I don't know if I use that much hot water, so the pay off might be
longer than that. Maybe next time.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 10:46:21 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 10/1/23 10:29 AM, ScottW wrote:

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 6:12:41 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/30/23 6:53 PM, ScottW wrote:

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:29:02 AM UTC-7, mINE109
wrote:

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house we
find that our existing electric water heater is not
acceptable. It has to be replaced with a heat pump water
heater. The electric cost about $600. The heat pump water
heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn thing doesn't get the
water nearly as hot so you'll never have really hot water
again. And when the warm water runs out it takes over an hour
to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

Isn't keeping up to code an expected landlord's responsibility?
Don't electric water heaters last 15-20 years? Do you expect to
pay 2010 prices to replace one?

You're just dumber than dirt.

Show me otherwise about codes.

Your stupidity is not in any code. We have a ton of new
construction and remodel codes that are not imposed upon existing buildings. You think I should have to replumb my house because of the idiotic and wasteful 70's design to provide hot water on demand?

It sounds like something you've chosen to do, which requires permits
that have standards.

It sounds like is just noise in your head.

I could just replace my water heater but the remodel requires
plans, permits and inspections and that's where they force me to
go to a heat pump.

So, yes, replacing your water heater requires you to conform to
today's code.

Remodeling my house does. I could and have replaced water heaters
with comparable models.

https://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/permits/plumbing-permit


You've opted for "Plan (required) Plumbing/Gas Permit"?

What part of remodel is flying over your head?

Go read Cali's latest energy requirements in a document called title 24.
Your little head will hear sounds for months.

ScottW

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/1/23 6:16 PM, ScottW wrote:

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 10:46:21 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 10/1/23 10:29 AM, ScottW wrote:

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 6:12:41 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:

On 9/30/23 6:53 PM, ScottW wrote:

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:29:02 AM UTC-7, mINE109
wrote:

On 9/29/23 10:18 PM, ScottW wrote:

I'll give you my personal example. In remodeling a house
we find that our existing electric water heater is not
acceptable. It has to be replaced with a heat pump water
heater. The electric cost about $600. The heat pump
water heater is $2300. Even worse....the damn thing
doesn't get the water nearly as hot so you'll never have
really hot water again. And when the warm water runs out
it takes over an hour to get it back to warm.

Thanks Joe.

And that's why you smell, according to Trump.

We have a ton of new construction and remodel codes that are not
imposed upon existing buildings. You think I should have to
replumb my house because of the idiotic and wasteful 70's design
to provide hot water on demand?

It sounds like something you've chosen to do, which requires
permits that have standards.

It sounds like is just noise in your head.

I bow down to your ability to pick a word out of context.

So what's the problem? You remodeled "a house" in a way that required a
heat pump due to new codes? The heat pump you installed doesn't work as
well as the old electric heater? What keeps you from selecting the
temp you want? What kept you from choosing the right tank size?

While we're at it, how can remodel codes apply to anything but existing buildings? Who wants you to "replumb" your house?

Title 24? Of course states have standards. "Compliance with Title 24 is mandatory for all new construction and major renovations in California,"
says one site. How else would it be?

https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-energy-code-2022/chapter/9/single-family-residential-buildings-additions-and-alterations-to-existing-reside#9

Heat pump required if your existing resistance heater doesn't meet the
usage spec.

SDGE has a $500 rebate which would bring down the cost to under $2k or
about the same as it cost for me to install a gas heater and bring
ventilation up to code. And your electricity use at half of previous
should be welcome to you given your numerous complaints about electric
rates.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)