1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. REC.AUDIO.OPINION

  • Interesting Stats on Kos

    From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 10 21:55:56 2023
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people
    are just as much anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab world)?

    It might not be that simple. Only 28% of respondents supported a two-state solution, with 70% opposing. Support for a one-state solution, in which Palestinians would enjoy equal rights inside Israel, is at just 21%, with 76% opposing. So if they don’t
    support either the one- or two-state solution, what is left? (Destruction of Israel wasn’t polled.) Disenchantment with Hamas may be less about its extremism and more about its corruption and lack of results.
    (end snip)

    Gaza residents might not be giddy about Hamas....but they aren't all innocent sheep herded by wolves either.

    and there's this bit of little known truth.

    For all the attempts to blame Gaza’s plight on Israel, the reality is that Egypt itself has blockaded its border with Gaza, while the (corrupt) Palestinian Authority in the West Bank refuses to allow entry to Gaza residents.
    (end snip)

    Egypt was given control of their border with Gaza in the Oslo Accords and they've staunchly refused to allow any migration of Palestinian refugees.
    And after Hamas took control the PLA on the West Bank has also refused to allow any fearing Hamas will be part of them.

    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to ScottW on Wed Oct 11 21:16:49 2023
    On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 12:55:58 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian
    people are just as much anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab world)?

    It might not be that simple. Only 28% of respondents supported a two-state solution, with 70% opposing. Support for a one-state solution, in which Palestinians would enjoy equal rights inside Israel, is at just 21%, with 76% opposing. So if they don’
    t support either the one- or two-state solution, what is left? (Destruction of Israel wasn’t polled.) Disenchantment with Hamas may be less about its extremism and more about its corruption and lack of results.
    (end snip)

    Gaza residents might not be giddy about Hamas....but they aren't all innocent sheep herded by wolves either.

    and there's this bit of little known truth.

    For all the attempts to blame Gaza’s plight on Israel, the reality is that Egypt itself has blockaded its border with Gaza, while the (corrupt) Palestinian Authority in the West Bank refuses to allow entry to Gaza residents.
    (end snip)

    Egypt was given control of their border with Gaza in the Oslo Accords and they've staunchly refused to allow any migration of Palestinian refugees.
    And after Hamas took control the PLA on the West Bank has also refused to allow any fearing Hamas will be part of them.

    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.

    ScottW

    Israel does not administer Gaza.
    Not it's problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Thu Oct 12 10:13:01 2023
    On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
    found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza)
    thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab
    world)?...

    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.

    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of
    the country's leadership.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 13 14:26:30 2023
    On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
    found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab
    world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of
    the country's leadership.

    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to Art Sackman on Sat Oct 14 08:06:09 2023
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
    found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Oct 14 11:01:19 2023
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
    found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza)
    thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian
    people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much >>>> anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab
    world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll. >>>
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign >>> - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of >>> coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of >>> the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.

    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another. It doesn't erase yours and I
    began by implicitly agreeing with you.

    I see intelligence warnings came from Israel, Egypt and the United
    States so I'm not sure what distinction Art is trying to make. Why
    wouldn't an intelligence failure lead to a resignation? It's not like
    Netanyahu hasn't been hanging by a thread for quite some time.

    Hamas didn't win by majority and your poll shows the reason why they
    don't have elections at all.

    Chances are they won't be in any future Palestinian elections.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 14 10:36:01 2023
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
    found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) >>>> thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian >>>> people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much >>>> anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab
    world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll. >>>
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign >>> - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of >>> coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of >>> the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.
    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another.

    Which you grossly misinterpret.

    It doesn't erase yours and I
    began by implicitly agreeing with you.

    I see intelligence warnings came from Israel, Egypt and the United
    States.

    Nothing specific....generic activity...possible violence.

    so I'm not sure what distinction Art is trying to make. Why
    wouldn't an intelligence failure lead to a resignation?

    It may eventually. But for now they have other important things to deal with.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sat Oct 14 16:02:30 2023
    On 10/14/23 12:36 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research
    found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) >>>>>> thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian >>>>>> people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much >>>>>> anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab
    world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll. >>>>>
    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign >>>>> - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of >>>>> coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of >>>>> the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.
    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another.

    Which you grossly misinterpret.

    I didn't interpret it at all unless you find daylight between the
    meanings of "not blameless" and "responsible."

    It doesn't erase yours and I
    began by implicitly agreeing with you.

    I see intelligence warnings came from Israel, Egypt and the United
    States.

    Nothing specific....generic activity...possible violence.

    Leading to failure.

    so I'm not sure what distinction Art is trying to make. Why
    wouldn't an intelligence failure lead to a resignation?

    It may eventually. But for now they have other important things to deal with.

    Those don't depend on Netanyahu.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 14 16:54:04 2023
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:02:33 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 12:36 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote: >>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote: >>>>> On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research >>>>>> found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) >>>>>> thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian >>>>>> people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much
    anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab >>>>>> world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of
    coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of
    the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.
    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another.

    Which you grossly misinterpret.
    I didn't interpret it at all unless you find daylight between the
    meanings of "not blameless" and "responsible."
    It doesn't erase yours and I
    began by implicitly agreeing with you.

    I see intelligence warnings came from Israel, Egypt and the United
    States.

    Nothing specific....generic activity...possible violence.
    Leading to failure.
    so I'm not sure what distinction Art is trying to make. Why
    wouldn't an intelligence failure lead to a resignation?

    It may eventually. But for now they have other important things to deal with.
    Those don't depend on Netanyahu.

    Funny how Netanyahu is held accountable your pea brain for failures while Biden is not.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 15 08:32:45 2023
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:02:33 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 12:36 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote: >>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote: >>>>> On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research >>>>>> found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) >>>>>> thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian >>>>>> people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much
    anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab >>>>>> world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of
    coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of
    the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.
    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another.

    Which you grossly misinterpret.
    I didn't interpret it at all unless you find daylight between the
    meanings of "not blameless" and "responsible."

    Blameless and responsible for what?

    You conflate two very different sets of questions
    and I can't believe you are not doing so intentionally.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From mINE109@21:1/5 to ScottW on Sun Oct 15 16:40:41 2023
    On 10/15/23 10:32 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:02:33 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 12:36 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote: >>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote: >>>>>>> On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research >>>>>>>> found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) >>>>>>>> thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian >>>>>>>> people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much >>>>>>>> anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab >>>>>>>> world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of
    coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of
    the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.
    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another.

    Which you grossly misinterpret.
    I didn't interpret it at all unless you find daylight between the
    meanings of "not blameless" and "responsible."

    Blameless and responsible for what?

    It's your argument.

    You conflate two very different sets of questions
    and I can't believe you are not doing so intentionally.

    Gazans hold Hamas responsible; Israelis hold their leadership responsible.

    Seems like a lot of overlap in those statements.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ScottW@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 16 09:36:10 2023
    On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:40:45 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/15/23 10:32 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:02:33 PM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 12:36 PM, ScottW wrote:
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:01:23 AM UTC-7, mINE109 wrote:
    On 10/14/23 10:06 AM, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote: >>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote: >>>>>>> On 10/10/23 11:55 PM, ScottW wrote:
    Polling by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research >>>>>>>> found that just 31% of Palestinians (and just 38% of those in Gaza) >>>>>>>> thought that Hamas was “deserving of representing the Palestinian >>>>>>>> people.” Does that mean that the Palestinian people are just as much
    anti-Hamas as most of the rest of the world (including the Arab >>>>>>>> world)?...
    The plight of Gazans is hardly due to Israel alone.
    I assume this last sentence is yours. No arguing with that!

    Nor is Israel's government blameless according to a Jerusalem Post poll.

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-767880

    Hed: Israeli gov't responsible for Hamas massacre, Netanyahu must resign
    - poll

    Subhed: An overwhelming majority of 86% of respondents, including 79% of
    coalition supporters, said the surprise attack from Gaza is a failure of
    the country's leadership.
    That refers to the intelligence failure.

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.
    I saw your poll, now I'm sharing another.

    Which you grossly misinterpret.
    I didn't interpret it at all unless you find daylight between the
    meanings of "not blameless" and "responsible."

    Blameless and responsible for what?
    It's your argument.
    You conflate two very different sets of questions
    and I can't believe you are not doing so intentionally.
    Gazans hold Hamas responsible; Israelis hold their leadership responsible.

    I hold you responsible for your inability to specify what exactly they are being
    held responsible for.

    ScottW

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Art Sackman@21:1/5 to ScottW on Mon Oct 16 22:09:35 2023
    On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 11:06:11 AM UTC-4, ScottW wrote:
    On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 2:26:31 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
    On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM UTC-4, mINE109 wrote:

    Stephen sees what he wants to see....and little else.

    ScottW

    It's hard to see anything with one's head buried up one's ass.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)