The power went out recently and I wished I had an inverter
with alligator
clips to clamp onto a garage car battery without killing
that battery.
Walmart has 150W for about $30 but isn't that too low of an
output? https://www.walmart.com/ip/150W-Car-Power-Inverter-DC-12V-to-110V-AC-Car-Converter-with-3-1A-Dual-USB-Car-Adapter-Red-Alligator-clip/569188054
500W is pricey at about $50 https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-Inverter-Converter-Charger-Listed/dp/B07JJSW48V
300W is getting more reasonable at about $40 https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Adapter-Cigarette-Alligator-Converter/dp/B09KBGFHBK
200W is about $30 but where is the sweet spot in needed
wattage? https://www.amazon.com/Power-Inverter-Converter-Charger-Adapter/dp/B07MYX43T1
A typical power outage is from one to three days, so that's
how long I
would "hope" the inverter could charge a family set of
laptop PCs.
One laptop PC charger output says it's is 19.5VDC at 2.8Amps
while another
charger says it's 20VDC at 3.8Amps (1.9Amp input at
100-240VAC, 50/60Hz).
Amazon has inverters with dual plugs (why would I need more
than one plug
when I can use a power strip?) and USB ports, but I don't
know two things.
1. What inverter size is needed to adequately charge a
typical laptop?
2. How long will it take for a typical car battery to die
from doing that?
The power went out recently and I wished I had an inverter with alligator >clips to clamp onto a garage car battery without killing that battery.
Walmart has 150W for about $30 but isn't that too low of an output? >https://www.walmart.com/ip/150W-Car-Power-Inverter-DC-12V-to-110V-AC-Car-Converter-with-3-1A-Dual-USB-Car-Adapter-Red-Alligator-clip/569188054
500W is pricey at about $50 >https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-Inverter-Converter-Charger-Listed/dp/B07JJSW48V
300W is getting more reasonable at about $40 >https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Adapter-Cigarette-Alligator-Converter/dp/B09KBGFHBK
200W is about $30 but where is the sweet spot in needed wattage? >https://www.amazon.com/Power-Inverter-Converter-Charger-Adapter/dp/B07MYX43T1
A typical power outage is from one to three days, so that's how long I
would "hope" the inverter could charge a family set of laptop PCs.
One laptop PC charger output says it's is 19.5VDC at 2.8Amps while another >charger says it's 20VDC at 3.8Amps (1.9Amp input at 100-240VAC, 50/60Hz).
Amazon has inverters with dual plugs (why would I need more than one plug >when I can use a power strip?) and USB ports, but I don't know two things.
1. What inverter size is needed to adequately charge a typical laptop?
2. How long will it take for a typical car battery to die from doing that?
Forget your car battery idea. Get a UPS:Typical UPS is designed to run half rated power output for up to 20
https://www.lifewire.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies-4142625
These are well developed reliable technology.
minutes - and many will NOT start without having power input (they are
made to KEEP the computer running untill you finish a task and shut it
down properly. Pretty useless for what the OP wants - - --
If that's what you want it's called a 'converter' to change
12vDC to 20vDC. If your electronic products have a 'car
adapter' use that with your 12v battery. Else search '12v
DC to 20v DC converter'.
example-
https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-12V.htm
(that page lists 12v to 16, 22, 24 but not 20)
On 2023/01/03 10:9 pm, Clare Snyder wrote:
Forget your car battery idea. Get a UPS:Typical UPS is designed to run half rated power output
https://www.lifewire.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies-4142625
These are well developed reliable technology.
for up to 20
minutes - and many will NOT start without having power
input (they are
made to KEEP the computer running untill you finish a task
and shut it
down properly. Pretty useless for what the OP wants - - --
I'm an old man. Everything with a battery will die. In about
five years.
Worse, everything with a rechargeable battery needs to be
recharged.
I always tell my friends who buy those "jumper" batteries
that in five
years they'll be calling me to drive over to their house to
jump them.
Invariably the thing is dead when you need it five years
from now.
The beauty of something that alligator clamps onto a car
battery is you
always have a car in your garage. And that car always has a
battery.
That car battery is always recharged.
And it's always replaced about every five years or so.
Even better, for the price of the core charge, the next time
you replace
that car battery, you can just not bring the old one back.
Now you have a spare car battery (albeit it's a bit worn out).
While it may be too worn out to reliably start a car, it's
not too work out
to run my CPAP machine.
And, I hope, it's not too worn out to run the inverter.
If it is too worn out to run the inverter, then I still have
the battery in
the car in the garage.
Which is why I'm asking whether or not a car battery will
charge laptops.
1. What inverter size is needed to adequately charge a
typical laptop?
2. How long will it take for a typical car battery to die
from doing that?
On 2023/01/03 10:9 pm, Clare Snyder wrote:
Forget your car battery idea. Get a UPS:Â Typical UPS is designed to run half rated power output for up to 20
https://www.lifewire.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies-4142625
These are well developed reliable technology.
minutes - and many will NOT start without having power input (they are
made to KEEP the computer running untill you finish a task and shut it
down properly. Pretty useless for what the OP wants - - --
I'm an old man. Everything with a battery will die. In about five years. Worse, everything with a rechargeable battery needs to be recharged.
I always tell my friends who buy those "jumper" batteries that in five
years they'll be calling me to drive over to their house to jump them.
Invariably the thing is dead when you need it five years from now.
The beauty of something that alligator clamps onto a car battery is you always have a car in your garage. And that car always has a battery.
That car battery is always recharged.
And it's always replaced about every five years or so.
Even better, for the price of the core charge, the next time you replace
that car battery, you can just not bring the old one back.
Now you have a spare car battery (albeit it's a bit worn out).
While it may be too worn out to reliably start a car, it's not too work out to run my CPAP machine.
And, I hope, it's not too worn out to run the inverter.
If it is too worn out to run the inverter, then I still have the battery in the car in the garage.
Which is why I'm asking whether or not a car battery will charge laptops.
1. What inverter size is needed to adequately charge a typical laptop?
2. How long will it take for a typical car battery to die from doing that?
On 2023/01/04 1:46 pm, AMuzi wrote:
If that's what you want it's called a 'converter' to change 12vDC to
20vDC. If your electronic products have a 'car adapter' use that with
your 12v battery. Else search '12v DC to 20v DC converter'.
example-
https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-12V.htm
(that page lists 12v to 16, 22, 24 but not 20)
I never knew that a "converter" existed until this very moment!
I agree with you that a converter plus the special plug should work.
One problem with any given converter is you never know how much DC voltage you'll need for any given laptop as it changes from laptop to laptop
(I'd rather make a long term investment instead of a short terms purchase).
If I can find a converter which is adjustable to any voltage below around 25VDC it should charge "most" laptops (although the plug end will always be
a special problem) and it might even charge USB devices if it can adjust
way down to 5VDC.
I never knew that a "converter" existed until this very moment!
On 1/4/2023 11:04 AM, John Robertson wrote:
If that's what you want it's called a 'converter' to change 12vDC to
20vDC. If your electronic products have a 'car adapter' use that with
your 12v battery. Else search '12v DC to 20v DC converter'.
example-
https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-12V.htm
(that page lists 12v to 16, 22, 24 but not 20)
An 'inverter' changes current between AC and DC which is not ideally
what you need (multiplies transformer losses).
RV sales/service outlets have 12vDC to 110vAC inverters if you want to
do it that way.
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/4/2023 11:04 AM, John Robertson wrote:
If that's what you want it's called a 'converter' to change 12vDC to
20vDC. If your electronic products have a 'car adapter' use that with
your 12v battery. Else search '12v DC to 20v DC converter'.
example-
https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-12V.htm
(that page lists 12v to 16, 22, 24 but not 20)
An 'inverter' changes current between AC and DC which is not ideally
what you need (multiplies transformer losses).
RV sales/service outlets have 12vDC to 110vAC inverters if you want to
do it that way.
I have a charger for my Lenovo laptop that plugs into 12 V cigarette
lighter socket, so theoretically less losses than converting to AC and
back to DC.
In rec.autos.tech Smoke Signals <jerk@a0a0a0.com> wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/4/2023 11:04 AM, John Robertson wrote:
If that's what you want it's called a 'converter' to change 12vDC to
20vDC. If your electronic products have a 'car adapter' use that with
your 12v battery. Else search '12v DC to 20v DC converter'.
example-
https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-12V.htm
(that page lists 12v to 16, 22, 24 but not 20)
An 'inverter' changes current between AC and DC which is not ideally
what you need (multiplies transformer losses).
RV sales/service outlets have 12vDC to 110vAC inverters if you want to
do it that way.
I have a charger for my Lenovo laptop that plugs into 12 V cigarette
lighter socket, so theoretically less losses than converting to AC and
back to DC.
That car charger will certainly be more efficient than plugging
the laptop's mains power brick into a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter,
but it is still converting the 12VDC to an AC current internally,
as a necessary step in the 12V->20V DC->DC boost conversion.
In rec.autos.tech Smoke Signals <jerk@a0a0a0.com> wrote:
I have a charger for my Lenovo laptop that plugs into 12 V cigarette
lighter socket, so theoretically less losses than converting to AC and
back to DC.
That car charger will certainly be more efficient than plugging
the laptop's mains power brick into a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter,
but it is still converting the 12VDC to an AC current internally,
as a necessary step in the 12V->20V DC->DC boost conversion.
On 1/4/2023 10:13 AM, John Robertson wrote:
On 2023/01/04 1:46 pm, AMuzi wrote:
If that's what you want it's called a 'converter' to change 12vDC to
20vDC. If your electronic products have a 'car adapter' use that with
your 12v battery. Else search '12v DC to 20v DC converter'.
example-
https://www.powerstream.com/dcdc-12V.htm
(that page lists 12v to 16, 22, 24 but not 20)
I never knew that a "converter" existed until this very moment!
I agree with you that a converter plus the special plug should work.
One problem with any given converter is you never know how much DC voltage >> you'll need for any given laptop as it changes from laptop to laptop
(I'd rather make a long term investment instead of a short terms purchase). >>
If I can find a converter which is adjustable to any voltage below around
25VDC it should charge "most" laptops (although the plug end will always be >> a special problem) and it might even charge USB devices if it can adjust
way down to 5VDC.
Here's someplace to start:
https://www.amazon.com/KFD-Universal-Pavilion-VivoBook-ThinkPad/dp/B07TT2F95L/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1T22Z17AGCEZ7&keywords=12v+laptop+charger&qid=1672870504&sprefix=12v+laptop+charger%2Caps%2C256&sr=8-9
On 1/7/2023 8:46 AM, Mark Olson wrote:
That car charger will certainly be more efficient than plugging
the laptop's mains power brick into a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter,
but it is still converting the 12VDC to an AC current internally,
as a necessary step in the 12V->20V DC->DC boost conversion.
Why ever would you design it that way?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J2Y3njypi08/TubUhaCUAvI/AAAAAAAAAc8/yofGzJk_LCg/w1200-h630-p-nu/12-to-5-volt-dc-to-dc-converter-circuit-diagram.png
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES
WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES
WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air, and most garage doors are not airtight and all /building codes/ are different when rooms are above.
I'm not saying carbon monoxide doesn't kill but don't people who kill themselves that way usually /connect/ the tailpipe via hose into the car?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES
WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air, and most garage doors are not airtight and all /building codes/ are different when rooms are above.
I'm not saying carbon monoxide doesn't kill but don't people who kill themselves that way usually /connect/ the tailpipe via hose into the car?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On 1/8/2023 4:27 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES
WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct
given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of
them.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air, and most garage
doors are
not airtight and all /building codes/ are different when rooms are above.
I'm not saying carbon monoxide doesn't kill but don't people who kill
themselves that way usually /connect/ the tailpipe via hose into the car?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Never heard of a garage designed that way. Mine is hurricane proof to
150 mph wind
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/deadly-convenience-keyless-cars-and-their-carbon-monoxide-toll.html
Check out the political cartoons on this page.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/nebraska/articles/2022-09-08/officials-car-left-running-in-garage-led-to-3-omaha-deaths
Check out the political cartoons on this page.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/nebraska/articles/2022-09-08/officials-car-left-running-in-garage-led-to-3-omaha-deaths
In rec.autos.tech AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/7/2023 8:46 AM, Mark Olson wrote:
That car charger will certainly be more efficient than plugging
the laptop's mains power brick into a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter,
but it is still converting the 12VDC to an AC current internally,
as a necessary step in the 12V->20V DC->DC boost conversion.
Why ever would you design it that way?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-J2Y3njypi08/TubUhaCUAvI/AAAAAAAAAc8/yofGzJk_LCg/w1200-h630-p-nu/12-to-5-volt-dc-to-dc-converter-circuit-diagram.png
It's easy (and inefficient) to drop voltage from 12V to 5V using a
linear regulator.
Please show me how you use such a regulator to boost voltage from 12
to 20V (hint: you can't)..
In fact, most USB cigarette lighter chargers also use switching
regulators, which convert the 12VDC to AC in order to _efficiently_
convert it to 5VDC.
On 1/8/2023 1:27 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES
WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct
given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them. >>
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air, and most garage doors are >> not airtight and all /building codes/ are different when rooms are above.
I'm not saying carbon monoxide doesn't kill but don't people who kill
themselves that way usually /connect/ the tailpipe via hose into the car?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Garages are not airtight, but they are certainly seldom designed to have
cars running in them for any significant time with the doors closed. Why >would anyone even do that?
Fortunately, modern cars produce little CO.
But why would you want to
breath their exhaust anyway?
On 1/8/2023 4:27 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES
WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct
given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air,
and most garage doors are
not airtight
and all /building codes/ are different when rooms are above.
I'm not saying carbon monoxide doesn't kill but don't people who kill
themselves that way usually /connect/ the tailpipe via hose into the car?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Never heard of a garage designed that way. Mine is hurricane proof to
150 mph wind
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/nebraska/articles/2022-09-08/officials-car-left-running-in-garage-led-to-3-omaha-deaths
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/deadly-convenience-keyless-cars-and-their-carbon-monoxide-toll.htmlWow: Mr. Schaub is among more than two dozen people killed by carbon
Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
In rec.autos.tech Smoke Signals <jerk@a0a0a0.com> wrote:
I have a charger for my Lenovo laptop that plugs into 12 V cigarette
lighter socket, so theoretically less losses than converting to AC and
back to DC.
That car charger will certainly be more efficient than plugging
the laptop's mains power brick into a 12VDC to 120VAC inverter,
but it is still converting the 12VDC to an AC current internally,
as a necessary step in the 12V->20V DC->DC boost conversion.
Yes, and such devices are also more convenient, and they are available
from most laptop manufacturers or worst-case from a third party.
If you have a moderately-sized laptop pulling 50 watts and you have a
car battery able to put out 40Ah or so before dying, then you have a >continuous battery load of 4 amps and can run the laptop for about 10
hours.
Car batteries are starting batteries and they are designed for high
peak currents rather than the ability to be discharged very far. They >usually have very thin plates in order to get more plates with more
surface area for the high starting current, so they are prone to issues
with the plates warping when discharged a lot. So don't discharge the
car battery down too far. 40Ah is not out of the question but don't
treat it like a telco battery.
--scott
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:39:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski ><esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 1/8/2023 4:27 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES >>>> WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct >>> given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them.
I've never heard that and all my life I've heard of people dying from
cars left running in the garage.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air,
I have never seen a huge vent to the outside, or any vent. In my >experience, garages are as air-tight as they can be without spending
extra money, because people go into their garage in the winter and at
night, and they want to be at least moderately warm.
On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 02:07:54 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:39:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski >><esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 1/8/2023 4:27 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES >>>>> WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct >>>> given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them.
I've never heard that and all my life I've heard of people dying from
cars left running in the garage.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air,
I have never seen a huge vent to the outside, or any vent. In my >>experience, garages are as air-tight as they can be without spending
extra money, because people go into their garage in the winter and at >>night, and they want to be at least moderately warm.
At my house in Kansas and, later, my house in Texas, my garage doors had
a pair of 8x16 vents installed into the bottom-most door panel. Some of
the houses we looked at in the Florida panhandle had vented garages by
way of a couple of decorative bricks that allowed air to pass through.
My current home has an unvented garage.
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 09 Jan 2023 18:30:16 -0600, Jim Joyce ><none@none.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 02:07:54 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 8 Jan 2023 16:39:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski >>><esp@snet.xxx> wrote:
On 1/8/2023 4:27 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jan 07, 2023, micky wrote
(in article<news:6arjrhhhtfjgm2oasbkg8rh5avfm3ru4ko@4ax.com>):
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE CAR BEING IN THE GARAGE, WHERE THE EXHAUST GASES >>>>>> WILL LEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND KILL YOU.
I'm not sure that needed to be shouted and I'm not sure it's even correct >>>>> given that most garages are /designed/ to have cars running inside of them.
I've never heard that and all my life I've heard of people dying from >>>cars left running in the garage.
That is, most have huge vents to the outside air,
I have never seen a huge vent to the outside, or any vent. In my >>>experience, garages are as air-tight as they can be without spending >>>extra money, because people go into their garage in the winter and at >>>night, and they want to be at least moderately warm.
At my house in Kansas and, later, my house in Texas, my garage doors had
a pair of 8x16 vents installed into the bottom-most door panel. Some of
the houses we looked at in the Florida panhandle had vented garages by
way of a couple of decorative bricks that allowed air to pass through.
My current home has an unvented garage.
Wow. What's the point of the vent?
If this is a regional or climate thing btw, we never found out where the
OP lives.
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