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They never went there.

bt

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Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 à 20:04, bertietaylor a écrit :

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten feet.

- typically unconvincing bs snipped -

bt

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R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten feet. >> - typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

The moon suit weighs 180 lb.

Which is 180/7 = say 27 lbs on the moon.
Total weight on moon = 16+27= 43 lb
If a 110 lb man can jump up 1 foot up on earth,
then with same strength a 43 lb man can jump up 2 feet up on Earth.
And on the Moon, the 43 lb man can jump up 2*7= 14 feet up.

Now 14>10, so my question remains.
However if 110lb man carries a 180lb load on his back, on Earth, he would have to lean forward as he does.
Of course, if we are filming it on the desert in Nevada, the 180lb pack could be but say 30 lb.

Why my scepticism? Actually it was disappointment. In the early 60s I had got a present, a book about two American kids going to the Moon. There was a picture of someone on the Moon jumping up 10-12 feet, and that was very impressive.

The kind of shuffling the astro-nots did was not satisfactory.

bt

The height is not 6x but 2x whatever they are tryng to do.
Astronaughts were traditionally anglo so jumping 5 ft would have
been a stretch anyway.

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R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten feet. >>>> - typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

....

But you have at least *heard* of intertia, right?

Wrong. Never heard of it.

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R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy R Kym Horsell <kymhorsell@gmail.com> wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten feet.
- typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

...
But you have at least *heard* of intertia, right?

If you're still having problems with fuzzy thinking then think
of it all in terms of energy.

I am assuming he has as much energy on the Moon as he has in Earth.
Astronauts orbiting space claim no loss of energy.

In earth a 110 lb man can jump 2ft in the air if he can expend 300 joules.

He can jump with a certain force provided he has same reaction from the surface, irrespective of lunar or terrestrial surface.
After that the g value will determine how much up he goes.
Maths is simple.

of energy or whatever that is in American money.
How high can a 110 wearing a spacesuit get on the moon with 300 joules? You'll find it is not 10 feet but closer to 4'6".

With 300 j and 110 lb and using ke formula we can find v.
Then as mgh = 0.5mv we get h.
H = 0.5v/g

For same v we will have H*gmoon/gearth
or h = 7 height jumped on Earth
or 14 feer

bt

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Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-13 à 03:08, bertietaylor a écrit :

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten
feet.
- typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

The moon suit weighs 180 lb.

Which is 180/7 = say 27 lbs on the moon.
Total weight on moon = 16+27= 43 lb
If a 110 lb man can jump up 1 foot up on earth,
then with same strength a 43 lb man can jump up 2 feet up on Earth.
And on the Moon, the 43 lb man can jump up 2*7= 14 feet up.

Now 14>10, so my question remains.
However if 110lb man carries a 180lb load on his back, on Earth, he
would have to lean forward as he does.
Of course, if we are filming it on the desert in Nevada, the 180lb pack
could be but say 30 lb.

Why my scepticism?  Actually it was disappointment. In the early 60s I
had got a present, a book about two American kids going to the Moon.
There was a picture of someone on the Moon jumping up 10-12 feet, and
that was very impressive.

The kind of shuffling the astro-nots did was not satisfactory.

bt

The height is not 6x but 2x whatever they are tryng to do.
Astronaughts were traditionally anglo so jumping 5 ft would have
been a stretch anyway.

Well they just shuffled. Did not throw a rock up and show how slowly it came down.
Of pick up dust and throw it around to show how slowly it all falls.

While the weight is one sixth of the weight on the Earth, the mass is
still the same. You need to accelerate the full mass.
With your Earth weight estimate, that's 132Kg of mass to accelerate.

Mass cancels out in both cases, only g matters.

That 132Kg is still 132Kg on the Moon's surface. The weight is lower,
going from 1294 Newton down to 216 Newton, but, the mass don't change.
The mass limit the possible acceleration. The duration of the
acceleration also don't change.

Then, there is a consideration of safety. Jumping that 3.3m is pretty,
and uselessly, risky when you are in a big space suit that limit your movements and the closest medical facility is some 250 000 Km away.

They would come down slowly unlike on Earth so no problems there.

When your potus is tricky dick, certain are not certain supposed certainties.

bt

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R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy R Kym Horsell <kymhorsell@gmail.com> wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten feet.
- typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

...
But you have at least *heard* of intertia, right?

If you're still having problems with fuzzy thinking then think
of it all in terms of energy.

I am assuming he has as much energy on the Moon as he has in Earth.
Astronauts orbiting space claim no loss of energy.

In earth a 110 lb man can jump 2ft in the air if he can expend 300 joules. >> He can jump with a certain force provided he has same reaction from the surface, irrespective of lunar or terrestrial surface.

After that the g value will determine how much up he goes.
Maths is simple.

of energy or whatever that is in American money.
How high can a 110 wearing a spacesuit get on the moon with 300 joules?
You'll find it is not 10 feet but closer to 4'6".

With 300 j and 110 lb and using ke formula we can find v.
Then as mgh = 0.5mv we get h.
H = 0.5v/g
For same v we will have H*gmoon/gearth
or h = 7 height jumped on Earth
or 14 feer
bt

You start out good. With mgh.

But you go wrong forgetting the m on the moon is 3x the m on the earth because of space clobber.

Now that is something new.
And of course, wrong.
Because there is no such thing as space clobber.

This is the part where "inertial mass" is important.

Yes. If a man weighs 50 Kg on Earth that means he is a mass of 50 Kg producing a action of 50g or 500 newtons on the Earth.
On the Moon he would create an action of 500/7 or 70 newtons on the surface. Incidentally that should not create such deep footprints on the lunar soil. Inertial mass is the same all over the universe.
But the action force it can cause varies with the presence of other objects.

Weight only counts when you can LIFT an object very slowly.

Weight matters whether you are on the Earth or in the core of the Earth or on the Moon or Sun.
In the core of the Sun or Earth or Moon you weigh nothing.
On the surface of the Moon you weigh one seventh of your Earthly weight.
On the surface of the Sun you weigh much much more.

If you have to THROW it up to some height then you might have problems pushing it hard enough to get it up to speed.

You are not weighed down on the Moon as you would be on the Sun, cold and heat issues ignored.
On the Moon, you would feel light, full of energy, simply bursting out of your skin with joy, jumping up and down with great glee.

Such are the physics lessons from

bt

Bertie Taylor, Arindam's ghostly cyberdogs and his best friends.

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Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-13 à 03:08, bertietaylor a écrit :

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten
feet.
- typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

The moon suit weighs 180 lb.

Which is 180/7 = say 27 lbs on the moon.
Total weight on moon = 16+27= 43 lb
If a 110 lb man can jump up 1 foot up on earth,
then with same strength a 43 lb man can jump up 2 feet up on Earth.
And on the Moon, the 43 lb man can jump up 2*7= 14 feet up.

Now 14>10, so my question remains.
However if 110lb man carries a 180lb load on his back, on Earth, he
would have to lean forward as he does.
Of course, if we are filming it on the desert in Nevada, the 180lb pack
could be but say 30 lb.

Why my scepticism?  Actually it was disappointment. In the early 60s I
had got a present, a book about two American kids going to the Moon.
There was a picture of someone on the Moon jumping up 10-12 feet, and
that was very impressive.

The kind of shuffling the astro-nots did was not satisfactory.

bt

The height is not 6x but 2x whatever they are tryng to do.
Astronaughts were traditionally anglo so jumping 5 ft would have
been a stretch anyway.

They could easily jump 10 feet on the Moon.

While the weight is one sixth of the weight on the Earth, the mass is
still the same. You need to accelerate the full mass.

To jump up 0.5 m for a 50 kg mass on Earth, the reaction from the soil must be such as to overcome gravity and give extra acceleration.
using vv=uu+2as, with v final velocity as zero, u = sqrt of 2*g of earth * height jumped or sqrt 2*9.8*0.5 = sqrt 9.8 = say 3 m/s.
To get that velocity, the force from the man jumping would be his mass times acceleration over the time from 0 to 3m and that is say 0.1 second. So acc = 3/0.1 = 30 m/s/s and reaction upon Earth is 50 * 30 = 1500 newtons.
With same force exerted on the Moon's surface, the man would have an acceleration of 1500/50 = 30 m/s/s as on Earth.
Now if the surface is as hard as on Earth, like he is jumping of a rock, then that acceleration time will be comparable say once again 0.1 sec. Then as on Earth, he will get an upward velocitu of 3 m/s for the jump.
Again using vv=uu+2as with a=g/7 for the lunar scene and u=3 we get h=uu/(2g/7)=63/20= say 3 m.

So with same force and similar launch surface the man can jump 6 times higher, actually gearth/gmoon times.

Exactly as told in the early 1960s space literature for kids.

bt

With your Earth weight estimate, that's 132Kg of mass to accelerate.
That 132Kg is still 132Kg on the Moon's surface. The weight is lower,
going from 1294 Newton down to 216 Newton, but, the mass don't change.
The mass limit the possible acceleration. The duration of the
acceleration also don't change.

Then, there is a consideration of safety. Jumping that 3.3m is pretty,
and uselessly, risky when you are in a big space suit that limit your movements and the closest medical facility is some 250 000 Km away.

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R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy R Kym Horsell <kymhorsell@gmail.com> wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ? >>>>>>>>> Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up ten feet.

- typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

...
But you have at least *heard* of intertia, right?

If you're still having problems with fuzzy thinking then think
of it all in terms of energy.

I am assuming he has as much energy on the Moon as he has in Earth.
Astronauts orbiting space claim no loss of energy.

In earth a 110 lb man can jump 2ft in the air if he can expend 300 joules.

He can jump with a certain force provided he has same reaction from the surface, irrespective of lunar or terrestrial surface.
After that the g value will determine how much up he goes.
Maths is simple.

of energy or whatever that is in American money.
How high can a 110 wearing a spacesuit get on the moon with 300 joules? >>>>> You'll find it is not 10 feet but closer to 4'6".

With 300 j and 110 lb and using ke formula we can find v.
Then as mgh = 0.5mv we get h.
H = 0.5v/g
For same v we will have H*gmoon/gearth
or h = 7 height jumped on Earth
or 14 feer
bt

You start out good. With mgh.
But you go wrong forgetting the m on the moon is 3x the m on the earth
because of space clobber.

Now that is something new.
And of course, wrong.
Because there is no such thing as space clobber.

This is the part where "inertial mass" is important.

Yes. If a man weighs 50 Kg on Earth that means he is a mass of 50 Kg producing a action of 50g or 500 newtons on the Earth.

....

Like many people that are wrong about a lot of things you dont seem
able to spot your own errors.

Let us see who is making errors.

The thing jumping on earth is 110 lb (inertial mass).

Cunning trick! On Earth with same suit on the man is 110+280=390 lb or 177.27 Kg

The thing jumping on the moon is 110+280=390 lb.

Yes. We have to compare the same mass as on Earth.

That is 390lb=177.27 Kg

So we have

Earth: mgH == ~600 joules

Let us assume he jumps on Earth with his suit on, up 0.3m
A strong man can do that and astronauts are strong.
No problem for a 110lb man with a 280lb suit all around him to jump up 0.3m or about 11 inches.
In which case his energy required would be mgh or 177.27*9.8*0.3= 521 joules

Moon: (~3m)(~g/6)h == ~600 joules

How come inertial mass increases three times on the Moon???????

Okay let us see how much he jumps up on the Moon if he spends the same 521 joules there, and assuming that g there is 1/6 as of Earth
e=mg(moon)h

521 = 177.27*9.8/6*h
or h= 521/(177.27*9.8/6) = 1.8m or nearly 6 feet.


Which is 6 times the amount he would jump up on the Earth wearing the same suit.

Now, as per Internet, the suit they wore was not 280lb but 180lb.
Which would mean, that the astronaut with suit would weigh not 390lb but 110+180=290lb. or 131.8 Kg
That alters things a bit.
The mass in Kg would be
With 521 joules used, the height that could be jumped is 521/(131.8*9.8/6) = 2.42m or 94 inches or nearly 8 feet.

So the Apollo astro-nots could easily have jumped up at least 2-3 feet with ease, and come down nicely on the surface, had they really gone to the Moon. Then there would have been no talk of moon-landing conspiracy!

Just imagine their torture, living with a lie all their lives!

We dogs cannot understand the inhumanity of some humans, nor their level of abject ape stupidity.

therefore h = mgH/(2mg/6) = 2H

What on Earth...

Heh, pulling some silly answer out of a hat! Typical for the brainwashed fools.

As for what "moon soil" you'll find "regolith" is a lot different
than soil e.g. no moisture, no organic glue, precious little vacuum welding.

Don't see why anyone should believe a word of what you say.

bt
(Arindam's ghostly cyberdogs, teaching elementary physics to those who have forsaken physics, turned it into mumbo-jumbo while pursuing quickee-money careers in law, medicine, finance and management. Sad. In the early 60s the USAn engineers were great,
and that lasted till the 80s. But the weight of lies is too much to bear for honest folk, and engineers have to be honest... So they left engineering and see what happens!)

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Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-14 à 19:56, bertietaylor a écrit :

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-13 à 03:08, bertietaylor a écrit :

R Kym Horsell wrote:

In alt.astronomy bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:

Kualinar wrote:

Le 2024-05-12 ?? 20:04, bertietaylor a ??crit??:

They never went there.
bt

Are you a flatard or one of those stupid Moon landing denier ?

Am a ghostly cyberdog that cannot think why they did not jump up
ten feet.
- typically unconvincing bs snipped -
bt

Your calculations are wrong.
The avg astronaught weighs around 110 lb.

Which is 110/7 = say 16 lbs on the moon.

The moon suit weighs 180 lb.

Which is 180/7 = say 27 lbs on the moon.
Total weight on moon = 16+27= 43 lb
If a 110 lb man can jump up 1 foot up on earth,
then with same strength a 43 lb man can jump up 2 feet up on Earth.
And on the Moon, the 43 lb man can jump up 2*7= 14 feet up.

Now 14>10, so my question remains.
However if 110lb man carries a 180lb load on his back, on Earth, he
would have to lean forward as he does.
Of course, if we are filming it on the desert in Nevada, the 180lb
pack could be but say 30 lb.

Why my scepticism?  Actually it was disappointment. In the early 60s
I had got a present, a book about two American kids going to the
Moon. There was a picture of someone on the Moon jumping up 10-12
feet, and that was very impressive.

The kind of shuffling the astro-nots did was not satisfactory.

bt

The height is not 6x but 2x whatever they are tryng to do.
Astronaughts were traditionally anglo so jumping 5 ft would have
been a stretch anyway.

They could easily jump 10 feet on the Moon...

....when jumping in a pressurized gymnasium where they don't need to wear
a heavy and stiff space suit.

While the weight is one sixth of the weight on the Earth, the mass is
still the same. You need to accelerate the full mass.

To jump up 0.5 m for a 50 kg mass on Earth, the reaction from the soil
must be such as to overcome gravity and give extra acceleration.
using vv=uu+2as, with v final velocity as zero, u  = sqrt of 2*g of
earth * height jumped or sqrt 2*9.8*0.5 = sqrt 9.8 = say 3 m/s.
To get that velocity, the force from the man jumping would be his mass
times acceleration over the time from 0 to 3m and that is say 0.1
second.  So acc = 3/0.1 = 30 m/s/s and reaction upon Earth is 50 * 30 =
1500 newtons. With same force exerted on the Moon's surface, the man
would have an acceleration of 1500/50 = 30 m/s/s as on Earth.
Now if the surface is as hard as on Earth, like he is jumping of a rock,
then that acceleration time will be comparable say once again 0.1 sec.
Then as on Earth, he will get an upward velocitu of 3 m/s for the jump.
Again using vv=uu+2as with a=g/7 for the lunar scene and u=3 we get
h=uu/(2g/7)=63/20= say 3 m.

Why are you ignoring the mass of the space suit ?

energy = mgh (general formula) or h=energy/(mg)

height jumped on earth = energy/((mass of man and suit)*g)
height jumped on moon = energy/((mass of man and suit)*(g/6))

Dividing one by the other
height jumped on Earth/height jumped on Moon = (energy/((mass of man and suit)*g))/((mass of man and suit)*(g/6))

The mass and energy terms cancel out leaving us with
height jumped on Earth/height jumped on Moon = 1/6

You are assuming that the mass to accelerate on Earth and on the Moon is
the same. It is NOT the same.

Mass is ALWAYS same.

There is such a thing in physics as THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF MASS.

The force exerted by the mass varies as the acceleration upon it.
Force = mass times acceleration, as per the second law of Newton.
On Earth, the acceleration is called g, or 9.8m/s/s or 32.2 feet/s/s

So with same force and similar launch surface the man can jump 6 times
higher, actually gearth/gmoon times.

Yes, the same force will accelerate the SAME mass. But, here, the mass
is NOT the same.

Mass of a body is exactly the same. All over the universe!

The space suit is heavy, meaning that the initial
velocity get reduced.

The question is that he is wearing the same heavy suit on the Earth.
If with that suit he can jump 6 inches on Earth, on Moon he will jump 36 inches or three feet with that same suit.




The space suit is also stiff, limiting the

duration of the acceleration and the available accelerating force.
LESS force for LESS time = SMALLER initial velocity.

Does not matter how stiff that is. If he can jump 6 inches on Earth with that suit, from a similar jump surface he can jump 3 feet on the Moon. Plenty of rocks on the Moon; apparently, they brought back a few! Well, in that case standing on such rocks
he would get the same reaction from the surface as on Earth.

Instead, there was shuffling, probably helped with wires on cranes to give some sense of unreality. Not a single attempt to jump, even. Or throwing a rock up and showing it coming down slowly. Or picking up the lunar dust and show it falling down slowly.

What we have are fluttering flags, weird uneven shadows, no stars, photo negatives mysteriously lost, very clear photos with clumsy gloves, very deep footprints (now that is a giveaway!). Also see how they are bending forward with the weight. Used to
weighing 110 lb on earth, even with suit on they would weigh (110+180)/6 = 290/6 = say 50 lb or half their earth-weight. They should have an upright posture, feeling very light, not weighed down.

But as this was filmed on Earth, even with a non 180lb backpack, they did look so stiff and heavy.



Hollywood tricks, one showing like the famous C rock used as prop.

Exactly as told in the early 1960s space literature for kids.

That literature completely neglected to take the mass of the space suit
into consideration.

Or they took for consideration a very light suit, not 180lb but say 60 lb.
If you have a 60lb suit and have mass 110 lb, you can jump up with energy 600joules
h = 600/(77.27*9.8/6) = 4.75 meters or 15 feet and 5 inches.

Exactly as per the children's literature book of the late 50s- early 60s.

Well in those days they certainly knew their physics. They were not confused by all the relativity stuff!

bt

With your Earth weight estimate, that's 132Kg of mass to accelerate.

Okay.

That 132Kg is still 132Kg on the Moon's surface.

Certainly.

The weight is lower,

Yes.

going from 1294 Newton down to 216 Newton,

Great.

but, the mass don't change.

Absolutely, mass never changes.

The mass limit the possible acceleration.

Acceleration due to gravity is 1/6 there, so with same energy the man jumps 6 times higher.

h = energy/(mass * gravitational acceleration)



The duration of the

acceleration also don't change.

That is an assumption. We assume it is the same sort of hard surface whether on Earth or Moon. As the Moon is rocky this is a valid assumption. Now if you are in a swampy land on Earth you cannot jump too much can you.

Then, there is a consideration of safety. Jumping that 3.3m is pretty,
and uselessly, risky when you are in a big space suit that limit your
movements and the closest medical facility is some 250 000 Km away.

O dear us. These brave people are hopping off Earth on a pillar of fire, going into deep dark space, coming down at horribly high speeds, knowing they could be killed at any moment by a meteor, braving radiation with unknown effects... and they will be
scared of jumping a little bit on the Moon, just to show off and enjoy themselves?

We dogs don't buy that.

bt (Arindam's ghostly cyberdogs and his best friends)

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