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James Flack
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Lived in England, Scotland and FranceJun 5
Why don't we give some of Israel to the Palestinians?
Start by defining: We, Palestinians, and Israel.

Well, I’m British, so have some form in carving up this area…

The league of nations 1923 boundaries


So, in 1923, about 3/4 of Palestine was given to the Palestinians of Trans-Jordan.

After WW2, when the League of Nations was wound up and transferred over
to the UN, the UK was bankrupt and couldn’t afford to keep Palestine
stable, assorted talks went nowhere, and the US refused to back any plan
that wasn’t the UK out, fast.

The UN proposed this partition plan in 1947


Roughly 50/50 in area, but the Jewish state was mainly the Negev desert.

Jewish leaders reluctantly accepted it, Arab ones rejected it. A civil
war broke out.

Once Israel was declared as a state, the neighbours immediately declared
war, and attempted to push the Jews into the sea. This didn’t work.

The Olmert-Abass talks 2007–8, are a good example of a land for peace
deal. The Arabs rejected them.

In fact, it appears that almost any peace deal that includes the
existence of a Jewish state is either rejected, or accepted and then
ignored. Why don’t we give away ‘some’ of Israel? The only value of ‘ some’ the Arabs will accept is 100%

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Frank Grauberger
· Jun 6
Generally correct. Arabs tried to boot out the Jews in 1947 when the UN announced the plan and again with lots of Arab states ganging up on the
new Israel the day it was formed officially in 1948. Israel won both of
those conflicts despite being totally outnumbered. Without any western help.

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Daniel Schwartz
· Jun 6
Why is it always proposed that Israel must share some land, for the
benefit of those who keep attacking Israel?

That’s like a citizen being violently attacked by a mugger, until a
policeman separates them and says: “Sir, I suggest you give him half of
your wallet, and maybe then he’ll leave you alone”.

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Express Law Consulting
· Jun 9
Except when that mugger stole your land to begin with and isn t happy
until he gets it all

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Aaron Lassig
· Jun 10
More like the mugger realized his cartel buddies were planning on
massacreing every single one of your neighbors and told you they were
going to do so and encouraged you to leave. So you sold the land to the neighbors for a pittance because, “meh, they’ll die anyway and I’ll come back and get the land AND my money”.

Then the cartel comes in guns a blazing and…gets their butts handed to
them. Now you’re stuck on a small crowded parcel of land and blame your neighbors for “stealing” the land you sold them.

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Express Law Consulting
· Jun 10
Except Israel is the mugger that came into their neighborhood and kicked
misty of them out of the neighborhood

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Aaron Lassig
· Jun 10
You and I obviously have a very different view of who the mugger is.

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Frank Ghat
· Jul 14
Except it didn't.

Palestinians who didn't flee their homes were freely given Israeli
citizenship when Israel was declared, their ancestors remain Arab
Israelis today…

It is only the folks who sided with the invading armies and willingly
relocated to the Arab refugee camps set up by the anti-Israel coalition
that would later find themselves stateless when Egypt claimed Gaza and
Jordan claimed the West Bank, instead of giving it back to them as had
been promised. It is also extremely relevant context that most of these original Palestinians never actually own their land in the first place
but were essentially Ottoman serfs working the land for far off Ottoman landlords, most having immigrated into the area in the late 1800s and
early 1900s fleeing economic stagnation in Egypt or Syria caused by the
slow motion collapse of the Ottoman Empire, which would ultimately
dissolve entirely as a result of WW1.

For comparisons sake Jewish cities like Tel Aviv were built on land
those Jews BOUGHT from the Ottomans and owned outright.

Basically after the fall of the Ottomans and take over by the British
they were faced with a situation where the Arab immigrants VASTLY
outnumbered all of the native groups but owned almost none of the land,
while the Jews owned a relatively small percentage of the land overall
BUT that small percentage included most of the major cities as well as
the Jordan River Valley which is the areas only reliable source of
running freshwater year round, with most of the land being state owned
and defaulting over from the Ottoman government to the British one, as
well as there being several native tribes that owned no land due to
being nomadic and despite being there longer than pretty much everyone
else like the Bedouin and Druze.

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Edward H
· Jun 8
Very sly comment. Because of course in your analogy, the proposal of the policeman would in fact work. Your objection to the proposal is not that
it wouldn’t work, but that you think Israel should keep all the wallet because it belongs to Israel. Palestinian to disagree, which is why
there is a conflict.

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Daniel Schwartz
· Jun 23
Not at all. If the situation with the mugger works, it would be because
a policeman is present. But as soon as the policeman is gone, the mugger
may well return for the other half.

I take it that you think all my wallet does not belong to me… or, in
this case, that part of Israel really belongs to someone else, or ought
to. If so, why do you believe that?

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Edward H
· Jun 23
Okay, but Israel doesn’t need a policeman because it’s got a strong military. It also has peace agreements with two of its neighbours and
would have more if it made peace with the Palestinians. And, of course,
it’s got the backing of the United States. So it could give away half
the wallet (well, 22%!) without having to worry about losing the rest.

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Daniel Schwartz
· Jun 23
Not at all. Neither the Palestinians in the West Bank, nor the
Palestinians in Gaza, have been willing to live in peace alongside
Israel (instead of insisting that all of Israel belongs to them).

Palestinians in the West Bank are ruled by Fatah. Look up the Fatah
emblem, and note that it still includes a map of Israel… all of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas to rule them; look at the emblem of
Hamas, and note that it too still includes a map of Israel… all of Israel.

This applies to their founding documents as well, which refer very
explicitly to replacing Israel, not living with Israel.

When the Palestinians are willing to live peacefully alongside Israel,
all sorts of things will become possible.

Edward H
I’ve responded to your point. You obviously want to widen it out into a ding-dong about the rights and wrongs of the Israel-Palestine issue.
Sorry, I’ve got more productive things to do this afternoon!
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Colin Mitchell
· Jul 10
This whole episode started on Oct 7th because Iran wanted, and
succeeded, in stopping Saudi Arabia signing the peace Accords.

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Douglas Magowan
· Jul 14
The only reason the mugger resorts to crime is that he is short the $100
you happen to have in your wallet.

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Colin Davies
· Jun 24
Nah, brilliant analogy.

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