On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back months to >>>resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more insults and threats >>>at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even worse >>>than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he sorted
his news readers list of articles by name, subject or sender, instead
of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He might have also turned
off threading, which arranges articles on a given "Subject" into a
tree. Without the tree structure, untangling articles into a logical >>sequence is rather difficult. The resulting mess also explains why
Tom is switching back and forth between two newsreaders
(newshosting.com reader and Pan) which can be identified by his name >>vacillating between "cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com >>newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the >>subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the
current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become >>permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on about
the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the B-52
missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then they >returned and a different group was selected but for whatever reason
they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3
months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though
that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB
from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at: <https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely fantasy
about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on that amazing
claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out from relaxing
too much today:

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/LCkJkdp7BwAJ> "I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam Airlift
as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/p0Ugd2OEBwAJ> The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/Hvi1fsv9AQAJ> More on Bayaire Avionics.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back including all of the civilian agencies and most of the
South Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your growing dementia getting these sorts of answers? What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people that
used or maintained them.

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do not think for one second that that is normal.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back months to
resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more insults and threats >> >>>at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even worse >> >>>than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he sorted
his news readers list of articles by name, subject or sender, instead
of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He might have also turned
off threading, which arranges articles on a given "Subject" into a
tree. Without the tree structure, untangling articles into a logical
sequence is rather difficult. The resulting mess also explains why
Tom is switching back and forth between two newsreaders
(newshosting.com reader and Pan) which can be identified by his name
vacillating between "cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com
newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the
subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the
current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become
permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on about
the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the B-52
missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then they
returned and a different group was selected but for whatever reason
they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3
months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though
that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB
from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely fantasy
about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam to Tom in
Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on that amazing
claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out from relaxing
too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/LCkJkdp7BwAJ> >> "I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam Airlift
as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/p0Ugd2OEBwAJ> >> The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/Hvi1fsv9AQAJ> >> More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back including all of the civilian agencies and most of the

South Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same: <https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles
from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972: <https://twinotterarchive.com/154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>
I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back months
to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more insults and
threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even
worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he sorted
his news readers list of articles by name, subject or sender,
instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He might have
also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a given
"Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure, untangling
articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. The resulting
mess also explains why Tom is switching back and forth between two
newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) which can be identified
by his name vacillating between "cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The
newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the
subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the
current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become
permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on about
the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the B-52
missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then they
returned and a different group was selected but for whatever reason
they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3
months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though
that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB
from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely fantasy
about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam to Tom in
Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on that amazing
claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out from relaxing
too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam Airlift
as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret things
you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS Bidens retreat >>from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds of
American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like
you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where broght
back as a reduction of force until they were all back including all of
the civilian agencies and most of the South Vietnamese government who
would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people that
used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various points
in Saigon."

More of the same: <https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do not >>think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing in
your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles
from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972: <https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire as
an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or after you
were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you didn't
get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know nothing
about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are
smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest attention to
you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are transoceanic. You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American presence was 7,000 men in Saigon. Now I don't even believe you
were smart enough to change ink jet printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back months >>>>>>> to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more insults and >>>>>>> threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even >>>>>>> worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he sorted >>>>>> his news readers list of articles by name, subject or sender,
instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He might have
also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a given
"Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure, untangling
articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. The resulting >>>>>> mess also explains why Tom is switching back and forth between two >>>>>> newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) which can be identified >>>>>> by his name vacillating between "cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The >>>>>> newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the >>>>>> subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the
current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become
permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on about >>>>> the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the B-52
missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then they >>>>> returned and a different group was selected but for whatever reason
they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3
months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though
that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB
from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely fantasy >>>> about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam to Tom in >>>> Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on that amazing
claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out from relaxing
too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam Airlift
as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret things
you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds of
American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like
you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where broght
back as a reduction of force until they were all back including all of
the civilian agencies and most of the South Vietnamese government who
would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people that
used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various points
in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do not
think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing in
your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles
from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire as
an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or after you
were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you didn't
get from Wikipedia?
I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing
about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are
smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest attention to
you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the
American presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in 1973......Several thousand U.S. citizens remained in the country at the Defense Attaché
Office at Tan Son Nhut Airport, the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, and
consulates at Da Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and 174 C-130
sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from Saigon, including
5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S. Ambassador, his staff, and many
more U.S. citizens and refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would
have to be evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you
were smart enough to change ink jet printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before embarrassing
yourself yet again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/1/2024 6:00 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann  wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B.
<slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's
digging back months
to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl
more insults and
threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home.
Something even
worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad".  My guess(tm) is
that he sorted
his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender,
instead of by date.  It's easy to do by accident.  He
might have
also turned off threading, which arranges articles on
a given
"Subject" into a tree.  Without the tree structure,
untangling
articles into a logical sequence is rather
difficult.  The resulting
mess also explains why Tom is switching back and
forth between two
newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) which
can be identified
by his name vacillating between "cyclintom" and "Tom
Kunich".  The
newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE:
Re:" mess in the
subject line.  The Windoze version of Pan is also
well behind the
current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend
to become
permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes
on and on about
the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support
of the B-52
missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90
days and then they
returned and a different group was selected but for
whatever reason
they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served
in Guam for 3
months but Tommy's post are all about his service in
Guam as though
that was the only place he served during his entire 4
year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at
the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly
at Lowry AFB
from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly
unlikely fantasy
about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in
Oakland and then back to Vietnam.  Here's something on
that amazing
claim.  There's more but it's late and I'm burned out
from relaxing
too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the
Vietnam Airlift
as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in
Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the
helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to
interpret things
you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that
ASS Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left

hundreds of

American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not
someone like
you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican
troops where broght
back as a reduction of force until they were all back
including all of
the civilian agencies and most of the South Vietnamese
government who
would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for
them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of
the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of
the people that
used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from
various points
in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/
Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL
AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial
aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad
decision. Do not
think for one second that that is normal.

Tom.  That's a really great example of you attempting to
change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes.
There is nothing in
your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of
the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician.  In
other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800
nautical miles
from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so
you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics?
What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked
for Bayaire as
an avionics technician in Oakland.  Was that before,
during or after you
were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam
that you didn't
get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing
about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit
but they are
smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest
attention to
you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that
helicopters are
transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the
American presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the
following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in
1973......Several thousand U.S. citizens remained in the
country at the Defense Attaché Office at Tan Son Nhut
Airport, the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, and consulates at Da
Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and
174 C-130 sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from
Saigon, including 5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S.
Ambassador, his staff, and many more U.S. citizens and
refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would have to be
evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you
were smart enough to change ink jet printer cartridges.
There is a reason
you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before
embarrassing yourself yet again.

+1
Even people who read the papers at that time generally
miscategorize and misremember the Saigon evacuation.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you didn't
get from Wikipedia?

Why would I want to have a discussion with you when you change the
topic every message? (Like I'm doing right now).

I was there and you were hiding. You know nothing
about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are
smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest attention to
you.

You have already announced that you don't care if anyone doesn't
believe you. Why should I care about your opinion.

11/30/2024
<https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/bbmTwgmN/investments#post3>
Message-ID: <VyG2P.9102$qax7.2656@fx12.iad>
"You are under no mandate to believe me you ass. I couldn't care less
what you believe or not."

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are >transoceanic.

I didn't say that. <https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fall-saigon-cartoons-flna743318>
That reminds me, where were you and what were you doing between when
you left the USAF in 1963 and your first(?) job at Thoratec in 1984?

01/27/2019 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IRvenWOvr90/m/Mn7gb10kDgAJ> "When I got out of the Air Force, the first job I got was at Physics International and was assistant on a high energy nuclear research
machine."

Were you working at Physics International when they accidentally
dumped 3000 gallons of mineral oil in SF Bay? If yes, can I blame you
for causing the oil spill?
<https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/incident/6351>

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the
American presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

I didn't hire you to think for me. I certainly would not have hired
someone who can barely think for himself.

Now I don't even believe you
were smart enough to change ink jet printer cartridges.

Is I recall, you were having problems with your HP printer. Did you
ever get it working? Does everything you claim to own have problems?

There is a reason you're on welfare.

It's called Social Security. Try not to bite the hand the is probably
feeding you.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more
insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even >>>>> >>>worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a >>>>> >>given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult.
The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and
forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan)
which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the >>>>> >>subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the
current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become
permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the
B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then
they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever
reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3 >>>>> >months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though >>>>> >that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB >>>>> from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam >>>>> to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on
that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out
from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret things >>>>you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS Bidens >>>>retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds >>>>of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like >>>>you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where broght >>>>back as a reduction of force until they were all back including all of >>>>the civilian agencies and most of the South Vietnamese government who >>>>would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people that >>>>used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do
not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles
from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/ >>154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>
I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know >>nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but
they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest >>attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your tour
in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you were
in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you were
never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. But I
see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you changed
basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful people.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone and 2.
Why don't you include the airspace above north and south Vietnam as being
in Vietnam?

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of TDY. I
even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the autopilot and allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam moving towards the DMZ.

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in the
Air Force that have your number.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 07:00:37 -0500, zen cycle wrote:

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more
insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even >>>>>>>> worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a >>>>>>> given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>> The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and
forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan)
which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the >>>>>>> subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the >>>>>>> current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become
permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the
B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then
they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever
reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3 >>>>>> months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though >>>>>> that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB >>>>> from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam >>>>> to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on
that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out
from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret
things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS
Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds of
American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like
you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where
broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back
including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South
Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people
that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do
not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles
from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia?
I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad
vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the
slightest attention to you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are
transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American
presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in 1973......Several thousand U.S. citizens remained in the country at the Defense Attaché
Office at Tan Son Nhut Airport, the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, and
consulates at Da Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and 174 C-130
sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from Saigon, including
5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S. Ambassador, his staff, and many
more U.S. citizens and refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would
have to be evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet
printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before embarrassing yourself yet again.

Tell everyone when you were in the military, what service and what your eventual rank was. When you know nothing whatsoever, most people would
keep their stupid trap's shut. Liebermann SAID that there were 7,000
people in Vietnam and the "Vietnam airlift" lasted 2 days. You must be
getting a queer horniness to give Liebermann a blow job.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 12:19:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia?

Why would I want to have a discussion with you when you change the topic every message? (Like I'm doing right now).

I was there and you were hiding. You know nothing about it and pretend
you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are smarter than you and
know better than to pay the slightest attention to you.

You have already announced that you don't care if anyone doesn't believe
you. Why should I care about your opinion.

11/30/2024
<https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/bbmTwgmN/investments#post3> Message-ID: <VyG2P.9102$qax7.2656@fx12.iad>
"You are under no mandate to believe me you ass. I couldn't care less
what you believe or not."

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are >>transoceanic.

I didn't say that. <https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fall-saigon-cartoons-flna743318>
That reminds me, where were you and what were you doing between when you
left the USAF in 1963 and your first(?) job at Thoratec in 1984?

01/27/2019
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IRvenWOvr90/m/

Mn7gb10kDgAJ>

"When I got out of the Air Force, the first job I got was at Physics International and was assistant on a high energy nuclear research
machine."

Were you working at Physics International when they accidentally dumped
3000 gallons of mineral oil in SF Bay? If yes, can I blame you for
causing the oil spill?
<https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/incident/6351>

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American >>presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

I didn't hire you to think for me. I certainly would not have hired
someone who can barely think for himself.

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet printer >>cartridges.

Is I recall, you were having problems with your HP printer. Did you
ever get it working? Does everything you claim to own have problems?

There is a reason you're on welfare.

It's called Social Security. Try not to bite the hand the is probably feeding you.

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status. So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your
interesst in citizen's band radios. Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 12:19:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia?

Why would I want to have a discussion with you when you change the topic every message? (Like I'm doing right now).

I was there and you were hiding. You know nothing about it and pretend
you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are smarter than you and
know better than to pay the slightest attention to you.

You have already announced that you don't care if anyone doesn't believe
you. Why should I care about your opinion.

11/30/2024
<https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/bbmTwgmN/investments#post3> Message-ID: <VyG2P.9102$qax7.2656@fx12.iad>
"You are under no mandate to believe me you ass. I couldn't care less
what you believe or not."

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are >>transoceanic.

I didn't say that. <https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fall-saigon-cartoons-flna743318>
That reminds me, where were you and what were you doing between when you
left the USAF in 1963 and your first(?) job at Thoratec in 1984?

01/27/2019
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IRvenWOvr90/m/

Mn7gb10kDgAJ>

"When I got out of the Air Force, the first job I got was at Physics International and was assistant on a high energy nuclear research
machine."

Were you working at Physics International when they accidentally dumped
3000 gallons of mineral oil in SF Bay? If yes, can I blame you for
causing the oil spill?
<https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/incident/6351>

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American >>presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

I didn't hire you to think for me. I certainly would not have hired
someone who can barely think for himself.

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet printer >>cartridges.

Is I recall, you were having problems with your HP printer. Did you
ever get it working? Does everything you claim to own have problems?

There is a reason you're on welfare.

It's called Social Security. Try not to bite the hand the is probably feeding you.

Liebermann, the numbers are clear - I got out of the Air Force in April or
May of 1965 and within weeks got a job at Physics International. I was
there less than a year before getting a job at Berkeley Computer Company.

The spill that you think is a big deal occurred in 1986 and the lawsuits
put them out of business and the same business was taken over by someone
else.

The OIL was CLEAN mineral oil and of no danger to bay wildlife unlike
crude oil spills in the open ocean from commercial vessels without working radar hitting Oil Rigs.

Why do you continually feel the need to demonstrate that you're so fucking stupid?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 09:56:48 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/1/2024 6:00 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann  wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>> even worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad".  My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender,
instead of by date.  It's easy to do by accident.  He might have >>>>>>>> also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a given
"Subject" into a tree.  Without the tree structure, untangling >>>>>>>> articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult.  The
resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and forth >>>>>>>> between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) which >>>>>>>> can be identified by his name vacillating between "cyclintom" and >>>>>>>> "Tom Kunich".  The newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE:
Re:" mess in the subject line.  The Windoze version of Pan is >>>>>>>> also well behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan >>>>>>>> bugs tend to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>> 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as
though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>> A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry
AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam.  Here's
something on that amazing claim.  There's more but it's late and
I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret
things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS
Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left

hundreds of

American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone
like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where >>>>> broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back
including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South
Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people
that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind> "More than
7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various points in
Saigon."

More of the same: <https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/
Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do
not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom.  That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the
airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician.  In other words, a >>>> random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you,
in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland.  Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad
vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the
slightest attention to you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are
transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American
presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in
1973......Several thousand U.S. citizens remained in the country at the
Defense Attaché Office at Tan Son Nhut Airport, the U.S. Embassy in
Saigon, and consulates at Da Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and 174 C-130
sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from Saigon, including
5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S. Ambassador, his staff, and many
more U.S. citizens and refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would
have to be evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet
printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before embarrassing
yourself yet again.

+1 Even people who read the papers at that time generally miscategorize
and misremember the Saigon evacuation.

At the time of Vietnam and conscription there were only some 9,000,000 men
in the combined services. Of that less than a third saw service in Vietnam.

Liebermann said that the the Vietnam airlift lasted TWO Days and yet I
worked as the sole electronics recovery technician for all of the minor airlines in the entirety of northern California. Major Airlines like
United and Pan Am had their own crews.

A DC-8 carried about 300 passengers and a Boeing 707 less than 200. Less
than 3 million military served in Vietnam. So just two flights a day of
each would take 16 years to move that many men. And they ALL transferred through Guam. You know that place that John claims was a sissy place that
only handled hundreds of tone of high explosives every day. Where ONE
mistake could activate and detonate a 2,000 lb bomb. When they were
loading bombers no one was allowed on the flight line but MMS (Munitions Maintenance Squadron). That was because according to John they were
perfectly safe.

I worked from 1970 for 4 years at Bayaire Avionics. It sickens me that
people like that cowardly Liebermann or Flunky would DARE to make a single comment about Viernam or deny the CIA running drugs from the poppy fields
in Cambodia when it was coming through Guam on military aircraft and the recovery crews would wear gas masks to prevent inhailing heroin dust.

Exactly why are people that know nothing about that fucking war, that the THREAT of JFK to pull out, had the CIA assassinate him? Oswald made the
mistake of saying to the camera, "I was set up" and somehow, oh so common,
a nightclub owner - Jack Ruby just happened to be in the Dallas Police Department Holding facility and he just happened to avoid police scrutiny
and was armed. He killed Lee Harvey Oswald who was a known CIA sniper and
was condemned to death. Unfortunately he got a mistrial and a chance at a retrial from a competent lawyer.

Who knows what he would have said. Then it was suddenly claimed that he
had cancer which was KNOWN already to be caused by a simian virus. But
instead when he still had time to sit before a jury, he died of a
pulmonary embolism. Like the Warren Commission, who failed to notice that
JFK was hit both from the back and from the front with two bullets (the
second shooter on the Grassy Knoll) they failed to note that the Pulmonary Embolism was caused by broken ribs from a night stick clubbing. Why shades
of Epstein where the cameras just happened to be not working or pointing
in the wrong direction and the guards just happened to miss their usual
check on high danger prisoners and he just happened to have an illegal set
of pajamas that just happened to be strong enough to hang himself with.

By the way, just watch the JFK shooting and you can actually see him roll forward with the Oswald shot and was then thrown backwards by the shot
from the front which was claimed to be a "nothing more than a recoil" from
the first shot. BS - his body recoiling off of the seat in front of him,
would have been slack and slow. Not violently thrown back. Other unfired bullets were found in the car afterwards. Why didn't the Warren Commission investigate them?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 09:56:48 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/1/2024 6:00 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann  wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>> even worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad".  My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender,
instead of by date.  It's easy to do by accident.  He might have >>>>>>>> also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a given
"Subject" into a tree.  Without the tree structure, untangling >>>>>>>> articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult.  The
resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and forth >>>>>>>> between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) which >>>>>>>> can be identified by his name vacillating between "cyclintom" and >>>>>>>> "Tom Kunich".  The newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE:
Re:" mess in the subject line.  The Windoze version of Pan is >>>>>>>> also well behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan >>>>>>>> bugs tend to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>> 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as
though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>> A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry
AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam.  Here's
something on that amazing claim.  There's more but it's late and
I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret
things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS
Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left

hundreds of

American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone
like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where >>>>> broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back
including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South
Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people
that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind> "More than
7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various points in
Saigon."

More of the same: <https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/
Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do
not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom.  That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the
airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician.  In other words, a >>>> random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you,
in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened
to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland.  Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad
vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the
slightest attention to you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are
transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American
presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in
1973......Several thousand U.S. citizens remained in the country at the
Defense Attaché Office at Tan Son Nhut Airport, the U.S. Embassy in
Saigon, and consulates at Da Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and 174 C-130
sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from Saigon, including
5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S. Ambassador, his staff, and many
more U.S. citizens and refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would
have to be evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet
printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before embarrassing
yourself yet again.

+1 Even people who read the papers at that time generally miscategorize
and misremember the Saigon evacuation.

Concerning JFK, he was supposed to be elsewhere that day but a threat was detected by the Secret Service and the program was moved to Dallas. ONLY
the security services knew that he was there until the morning of the
parade so how exactly did Oswald know where to set up for a sniper shot?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year >degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated
classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have
enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when
seats in my major became available. At one point, I was drafted and
went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to
convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you
haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your >interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:59:49 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 12:19:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia?

Why would I want to have a discussion with you when you change the topic
every message? (Like I'm doing right now).

I was there and you were hiding. You know nothing about it and pretend >>>you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are smarter than you and >>>know better than to pay the slightest attention to you.

You have already announced that you don't care if anyone doesn't believe
you. Why should I care about your opinion.

11/30/2024
<https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/bbmTwgmN/investments#post3>
Message-ID: <VyG2P.9102$qax7.2656@fx12.iad>
"You are under no mandate to believe me you ass. I couldn't care less
what you believe or not."

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are >>>transoceanic.

I didn't say that.
<https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fall-saigon-cartoons-flna743318>
That reminds me, where were you and what were you doing between when you
left the USAF in 1963 and your first(?) job at Thoratec in 1984?

01/27/2019
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IRvenWOvr90/m/ >Mn7gb10kDgAJ>
"When I got out of the Air Force, the first job I got was at Physics
International and was assistant on a high energy nuclear research
machine."

Were you working at Physics International when they accidentally dumped
3000 gallons of mineral oil in SF Bay? If yes, can I blame you for
causing the oil spill?
<https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/incident/6351>

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American >>>presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

I didn't hire you to think for me. I certainly would not have hired
someone who can barely think for himself.

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet printer >>>cartridges.

Is I recall, you were having problems with your HP printer. Did you
ever get it working? Does everything you claim to own have problems?

There is a reason you're on welfare.

It's called Social Security. Try not to bite the hand the is probably
feeding you.

Liebermann, the numbers are clear

Thank you for providing me with your expected conclusion. Please
forgive me if I don't follow your game plan.

- I got out of the Air Force in April or
May of 1965 and within weeks got a job at Physics International. I was
there less than a year before getting a job at Berkeley Computer Company.

That would mean you started at BCC in either 1966 or 1967. I'm really impressed how your mixing of ways to specify dates maximizes the
window of uncertainty. Do you do that on purpose or does being as
vague as possible something you learned while "reading out" 4
libraries in order to obtain the knowledge so that you could call
yourself and engineer?

The company name was Berkeley Computer Corporation, not Company.
Normally, an employee is able to remember the proper name for their
employer, but I'll give you some slack here because that was about 55
years ago. DCC existed from 1969 to 1972. That would mean you
allegedly worked for BCC 2 or 3 years before they were founded.
Somehow, that doesn't sound quite right.

Jay discovered a document showing your name on a BCC document. See
document page 27 (distribution list): <http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/bcc/originals/Admin/BCC_A-11.pdf>

The spill that you think is a big deal occurred in 1986 and the lawsuits
put them out of business and the same business was taken over by someone >else.

Something that put a company out of business is certainly a big deal.
I watched a good company, which I helped keep their computers
functioning, forced to sell out to a much larger company, because of E
coli related lawsuits caused by one slob failing to hose down a
vegetable truck.

The OIL was CLEAN mineral oil and of no danger to bay wildlife unlike
crude oil spills in the open ocean from commercial vessels without working >radar hitting Oil Rigs.

Oh, now you're a marine biologist? Mineral oil is used as a mild
laxative for livestock. I'm trying to visualize what the bay would
look like with all the fix and mammals swimming around with diarrhea.
As far as I know from some fast skimming, mineral oil is a pollutant.

"Mineral Oils | Everything You Need to Know" <https://maverikoils.com/mineral-oils-everything-you-need-to-know/>

Why do you continually feel the need to demonstrate that you're so fucking >stupid?

No, but I do feel the need to shove your lying words back down your
(virtual) throat. It makes me feel like I'm helping create a better
world.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/8/2024 11:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year >>> degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close.  It was to obtain a draft deferment.  There's no such thing as
"antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation.  For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers.  There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation.  The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing.  Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats.  I had to take some unrelated
classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have
enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when
seats in my major became available.  At one point, I was drafted and
went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to
convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned?  You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience.  By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you
haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your
interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad.  Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again?   ;-)

his wife took away his booze money

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/8/2024 4:24 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 07:00:37 -0500, zen cycle wrote:

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even >>>>>>>>> worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a >>>>>>>> given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>>> The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>>> forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>>> which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>>> <https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the >>>>>>>> subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the >>>>>>>> current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become >>>>>>>> permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3 >>>>>>> months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though >>>>>>> that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB >>>>>> from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam >>>>>> to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on
that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out >>>>>> from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret
things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS
Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds of
American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like >>>>> you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where
broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back
including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South
Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people
that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do
not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift, >>>> or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles >>>> from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened >>>> to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia?
I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad
vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the
slightest attention to you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are
transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American
presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in 1973......Several
thousand U.S. citizens remained in the country at the Defense Attaché
Office at Tan Son Nhut Airport, the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, and
consulates at Da Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and 174 C-130
sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from Saigon, including
5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S. Ambassador, his staff, and many
more U.S. citizens and refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would
have to be evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet
printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before embarrassing
yourself yet again.

Tell everyone when you were in the military, what service and what your eventual rank was.

I was never in the military

When you know nothing whatsoever, most people would
keep their stupid trap's shut.

Well, you certainly aren't "most people" then...

Liebermann SAID that there were 7,000
people in Vietnam and the "Vietnam airlift" lasted 2 days.

He never wrote anything of the kind.

You must be
getting a queer horniness to give Liebermann a blow job.

Jutelist #1. Repeatedly accusing people of being "queer". He's a
closeted queer, afraid people will find out.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/8/2024 4:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something even >>>>>>>>> worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a >>>>>>>> given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>>> The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>>> forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>>> which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>>> <https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in the >>>>>>>> subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well behind the >>>>>>>> current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend to become >>>>>>>> permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for 3 >>>>>>> months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as though >>>>>>> that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry AFB >>>>>> from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from Vietnam >>>>>> to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's something on
that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and I'm burned out >>>>>> from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and
forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret things >>>>> you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS Bidens
retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left hundreds >>>>> of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone like >>>>> you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where broght >>>>> back as a reduction of force until they were all back including all of >>>>> the civilian agencies and most of the South Vietnamese government who >>>>> would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American
vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people that >>>>> used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you
stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do
not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing
in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the airlift, >>>> or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words, a
random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical miles >>>> from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, in a
commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What happened >>>> to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for Bayaire
as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, during or
after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know
nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but
they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest
attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your tour
in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you were
in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you were
never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. But I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you changed
basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful people.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone and 2.
Why don't you include the airspace above north and south Vietnam as being
in Vietnam?

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of TDY. I
even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the autopilot and allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam moving towards the DMZ.

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly
his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in the
Air Force that have your number.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 17:01:33 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:59:49 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 12:19:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>didn't get from Wikipedia?

Why would I want to have a discussion with you when you change the
topic every message? (Like I'm doing right now).

I was there and you were hiding. You know nothing about it and pretend >>>>you do. You would make a toad vomit but they are smarter than you and >>>>know better than to pay the slightest attention to you.

You have already announced that you don't care if anyone doesn't
believe you. Why should I care about your opinion.

11/30/2024
<https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/bbmTwgmN/investments#post3>
Message-ID: <VyG2P.9102$qax7.2656@fx12.iad>
"You are under no mandate to believe me you ass. I couldn't care less
what you believe or not."

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are >>>>transoceanic.

I didn't say that.
<https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fall-saigon-cartoons-flna743318>
That reminds me, where were you and what were you doing between when
you left the USAF in 1963 and your first(?) job at Thoratec in 1984?

01/27/2019
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/IRvenWOvr90/m/ >>Mn7gb10kDgAJ>
"When I got out of the Air Force, the first job I got was at Physics
International and was assistant on a high energy nuclear research
machine."

Were you working at Physics International when they accidentally
dumped 3000 gallons of mineral oil in SF Bay? If yes, can I blame you
for causing the oil spill?
<https://incidentnews.noaa.gov/incident/6351>

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American >>>>presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

I didn't hire you to think for me. I certainly would not have hired
someone who can barely think for himself.

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet >>>>printer cartridges.

Is I recall, you were having problems with your HP printer. Did you
ever get it working? Does everything you claim to own have problems?

There is a reason you're on welfare.

It's called Social Security. Try not to bite the hand the is probably
feeding you.

Liebermann, the numbers are clear

Thank you for providing me with your expected conclusion. Please
forgive me if I don't follow your game plan.

- I got out of the Air Force in April or
May of 1965 and within weeks got a job at Physics International. I was >>there less than a year before getting a job at Berkeley Computer
Company.

That would mean you started at BCC in either 1966 or 1967. I'm really impressed how your mixing of ways to specify dates maximizes the window
of uncertainty. Do you do that on purpose or does being as vague as
possible something you learned while "reading out" 4 libraries in order
to obtain the knowledge so that you could call yourself and engineer?

The company name was Berkeley Computer Corporation, not Company.
Normally, an employee is able to remember the proper name for their
employer, but I'll give you some slack here because that was about 55
years ago. DCC existed from 1969 to 1972. That would mean you
allegedly worked for BCC 2 or 3 years before they were founded.
Somehow, that doesn't sound quite right.

Jay discovered a document showing your name on a BCC document. See
document page 27 (distribution list): <http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/bcc/originals/Admin/BCC_A-11.pdf>

The spill that you think is a big deal occurred in 1986 and the lawsuits >>put them out of business and the same business was taken over by someone >>else.

Something that put a company out of business is certainly a big deal.
I watched a good company, which I helped keep their computers
functioning, forced to sell out to a much larger company, because of E
coli related lawsuits caused by one slob failing to hose down a
vegetable truck.

The OIL was CLEAN mineral oil and of no danger to bay wildlife unlike
crude oil spills in the open ocean from commercial vessels without
working radar hitting Oil Rigs.

Oh, now you're a marine biologist? Mineral oil is used as a mild
laxative for livestock. I'm trying to visualize what the bay would look
like with all the fix and mammals swimming around with diarrhea.
As far as I know from some fast skimming, mineral oil is a pollutant.

"Mineral Oils | Everything You Need to Know" <https://maverikoils.com/mineral-oils-everything-you-need-to-know/>

Why do you continually feel the need to demonstrate that you're so
fucking stupid?

No, but I do feel the need to shove your lying words back down your
(virtual) throat. It makes me feel like I'm helping create a better
world.

There you have it from Liebermann himself. He knows exactly where he was
30 years ago and exacrly what he was doing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:41:17 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 21:19:06 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>> >>>insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something
even worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on >>>>>>> >>a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>> >>The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>> >>forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>> >>which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>> >><https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>> >>the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well
behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend >>>>>>> >>to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> >B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> >they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> >reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>> >3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as
though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>> >A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's
something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and >>>>>>> forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret >>>>>>things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS >>>>>>Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left >>>>>>hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone >>>>>>like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where >>>>>>broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back >>>>>>including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South >>>>>>Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>>>growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>>>vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people >>>>>>that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>>>operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>>>stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do >>>>>>not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is
nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of
the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words,
a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, >>>>> in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics?
What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/ >>>>154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>
I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know >>>>nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but >>>>they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest >>>>attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your
tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you
were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you were
never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. But
I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you changed >>basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful people.

While overseas I never heard a mention of TAC or SAC, it was the 14th
Air Commando Wing at Nha Trang Air Base when I was there, under the
command of the United States Pacific Air Forces (PACAF) Seventh Air
Force.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone and
2. Why don't you include the airspace above north and south Vietnam as >>being in Vietnam?

I thought I asked you whether you were paying income tax or not - we
didn't in Vietnam - a war zone - and you never answered.

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of TDY. I >>even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the autopilot and >>allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam moving towards the
DMZ.

Tommy stop lying. Nobody sits in the A.C.'S seat except the A.C. You
saying that the let you fly the airplane is so ridicules that it isn't
even funny.
As for flying on a mission I have heard that was done when it was
possible that a technician could fix something in flight but I'm
guessing that was a rare happening and the thought of a shop chief
sending a half trained A2C to do the job is, again, ridicules.
Particularly as said A2C has confessed that his usual "work" was to
carry the tool bag for a competent A1C.

In short, you have,once again, proved yourself a liar.

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in the
Air Force that have your number.

I would like to knowe how you claim to have spent 20 years in the Air
Force and not know that it was composed of two command structures - the Tactical Air Command and the Strategic Air Command. How could you NOT know
what command you were under? Or were you the guy putting out the clean
sheets once a week? That was a separate command that I didn't know
anything about. With the end of the draft, the Air Force moved all of its people into actual military business and contracted out things like
cooking, barracks maintenance like stoking the furnaces and sweeping the runways. So how could you not know what command you served under?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 06:26:53 -0500, zen cycle wrote:

On 12/8/2024 4:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back >>>>>>>>>> months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>>> even worse than botching a component installation yet again! >>>>>>>>>

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he >>>>>>>>> sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or >>>>>>>>> sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He >>>>>>>>> might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on >>>>>>>>> a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>>>> The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>>>> forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>>>> which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>>>> <https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>>>> the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well
behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend >>>>>>>>> to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on >>>>>>>> about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>>> B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>>> they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>>> reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>>> 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as >>>>>>>> though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>>> A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's
something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and >>>>>>> forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret
things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS
Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left >>>>>> hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone
like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops
where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back >>>>>> including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South
Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>>> vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people
that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>>> stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do >>>>>> not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is
nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of
the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words,
a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, >>>>> in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics?
What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know
nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but
they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest
attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your
tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you
were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you were
never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity.
But I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you
changed basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful
people.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone and
2. Why don't you include the airspace above north and south Vietnam as
being in Vietnam?

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of TDY.
I even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the autopilot
and allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam moving towards
the DMZ.

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly
his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in the
Air Force that have your number.

Every time you comment you show what an utter fool you are. A B52 flies
easily. The PILOT is called a co-pilot in commercial aviation and the
military equivilent of the "pilot" is the Aircraft Commander. While in a
war zone it was manditory that both seats be manned at all times. So when
the AC or Pilot left to use the head, the Electronics Warfare Officer WHO
ALSO HAD NO FLIGT TRAINING AT ALL would sit in the open seat. But the EWO
was a lot more vsluable at his station making sure that we could not be
tracked by missiles.

You know so much about the military that it is surprising you never went
to the Air Force Academy. But I suppose they don't allow theives into
their midst.

Tell us some more about the great amount of nothing at all you know.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4
year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as
"antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated classes
(i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have enough
units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when seats in my
major became available. At one point, I was drafted and went as far as
getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to convince the draft
board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you haven't
personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you
had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band
radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement he
finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes but
not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 22:40:52 +0000, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 09:56:48 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/1/2024 6:00 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 11/30/2024 5:31 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann  wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back >>>>>>>>>> months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>>> even worse than botching a component installation yet again! >>>>>>>>>

It probably wasn't something "bad".  My guess(tm) is that he >>>>>>>>> sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or >>>>>>>>> sender,
instead of by date.  It's easy to do by accident.  He might have >>>>>>>>> also turned off threading, which arranges articles on a given >>>>>>>>> "Subject" into a tree.  Without the tree structure, untangling >>>>>>>>> articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult.  The
resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and forth >>>>>>>>> between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) which >>>>>>>>> can be identified by his name vacillating between "cyclintom" >>>>>>>>> and "Tom Kunich".  The newshosting.com newsreader:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE:
Re:" mess in the subject line.  The Windoze version of Pan is >>>>>>>>> also well behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan >>>>>>>>> bugs tend to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on >>>>>>>> about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>>> B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>>> they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>>> reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>>> 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as >>>>>>>> though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>>> A.F.
service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam.  Here's
something on that amazing claim.  There's more but it's late and >>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

LCkJkdp7BwAJ>

"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>

The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and >>>>>>> forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
ZMiLSdqisfg/m/

Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>

More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret
things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS
Bidens retreat
from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left

hundreds of

American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone
like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops
where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back >>>>>> including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South
Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your
growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>>> vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people
that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind> "More than
7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various points in
Saigon."

More of the same: <https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/
Article/458955/1975-

operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>>> stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do >>>>>> not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom.  That's a really great example of you attempting to change the >>>>> topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is nothing >>>>> in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of the
airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician.  In other words, >>>>> a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, >>>>> in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment.
How would they get their training on military avionics? What
happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland.  Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you
didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding.

You were in guam, not vietnam.

You know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad
vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the
slightest attention to you.

You are the only person in the world that thinks that helicopters are
transoceanic.

The vietnam airlift wasn't transoceanic.

You are the only one in the whole world that thinks that the American
presence was 7,000 men in Saigon.

JEff didn't write that. The links he posted state the following:

"Although U.S. combat troops departed South Vietnam in
1973......Several thousand U.S. citizens remained in the country at
the Defense Attaché Office at Tan Son Nhut Airport, the U.S. Embassy
in Saigon, and consulates at Da Nang, Nha Trang, Bien Hoa, and Can
Tho."

"April 1975, the U.S. Air Force flew 201 C-141 missions and 174 C-130
sorties and evacuated more than 45,000 people from Saigon, including
5,600 U.S. citizens. Still, the U.S. Ambassador, his staff, and many
more U.S. citizens and refugees remained in South Vietnam. They would
have to be evacuated by helicopter, in an operation known as Frequent
Wind. "

Now I don't even believe you were smart enough to change ink jet
printer cartridges. There is a reason you're on welfare.

You would do well to read a little bit of history before embarrassing
yourself yet again.

+1 Even people who read the papers at that time generally miscategorize
and misremember the Saigon evacuation.

At the time of Vietnam and conscription there were only some 9,000,000
men in the combined services. Of that less than a third saw service in Vietnam.

Liebermann said that the the Vietnam airlift lasted TWO Days and yet I
worked as the sole electronics recovery technician for all of the minor airlines in the entirety of northern California. Major Airlines like
United and Pan Am had their own crews.

A DC-8 carried about 300 passengers and a Boeing 707 less than 200. Less
than 3 million military served in Vietnam. So just two flights a day of
each would take 16 years to move that many men. And they ALL transferred through Guam. You know that place that John claims was a sissy place
that only handled hundreds of tone of high explosives every day. Where
ONE mistake could activate and detonate a 2,000 lb bomb. When they were loading bombers no one was allowed on the flight line but MMS (Munitions Maintenance Squadron). That was because according to John they were
perfectly safe.

I worked from 1970 for 4 years at Bayaire Avionics. It sickens me that
people like that cowardly Liebermann or Flunky would DARE to make a
single comment about Viernam or deny the CIA running drugs from the
poppy fields in Cambodia when it was coming through Guam on military
aircraft and the recovery crews would wear gas masks to prevent
inhailing heroin dust.

Exactly why are people that know nothing about that fucking war, that
the THREAT of JFK to pull out, had the CIA assassinate him? Oswald made
the mistake of saying to the camera, "I was set up" and somehow, oh so common, a nightclub owner - Jack Ruby just happened to be in the Dallas Police Department Holding facility and he just happened to avoid police scrutiny and was armed. He killed Lee Harvey Oswald who was a known CIA sniper and was condemned to death. Unfortunately he got a mistrial and a chance at a retrial from a competent lawyer.

Who knows what he would have said. Then it was suddenly claimed that he
had cancer which was KNOWN already to be caused by a simian virus. But instead when he still had time to sit before a jury, he died of a
pulmonary embolism. Like the Warren Commission, who failed to notice
that JFK was hit both from the back and from the front with two bullets
(the second shooter on the Grassy Knoll) they failed to note that the Pulmonary Embolism was caused by broken ribs from a night stick
clubbing. Why shades of Epstein where the cameras just happened to be
not working or pointing in the wrong direction and the guards just
happened to miss their usual check on high danger prisoners and he just happened to have an illegal set of pajamas that just happened to be
strong enough to hang himself with.

By the way, just watch the JFK shooting and you can actually see him
roll forward with the Oswald shot and was then thrown backwards by the
shot from the front which was claimed to be a "nothing more than a
recoil" from the first shot. BS - his body recoiling off of the seat in
front of him, would have been slack and slow. Not violently thrown back. Other unfired bullets were found in the car afterwards. Why didn't the
Warren Commission investigate them?

I would much rather have misspellings than, like you, false pretenses at knowledge. I can only assume that you and Flunky get along so well because
you approve him stealing from his employer. After all, that is the basis
of Socialism.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/14/2024 2:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes but
not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

:-) Last night I paid some bills via the internet. I was pleased to see
that the state teacher's retirement system gave us an extra bonus check yesterday. Let me know if you need a loan, Tom.


--
- Frank Krygowski

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/14/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4
year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as
"antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated classes
(i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have enough
units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when seats in my
major became available. At one point, I was drafted and went as far as
getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to convince the draft
board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you haven't
personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you
had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band
radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes but
not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

You may be mistaken.

In Mahoning county, 50636 voters or 44.9% voted for Ms
Harris. That's slightly higher than Ohio overall but not by
much.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 16:35:39 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year >>degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment was
the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors had priority
for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when seats in my major became
available. At one point, I was drafted and went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you had >>before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

Just so that we're all clear on this - why were you such an utter failure
in your career? If you were the least bit ready not to be the smartest man
in the room who could never get anything right, you might have tried
harder to find a job in silicon valley and you might have managed to
achieve 5% of what I did. Maybe you can follow along behind Flunky and
believe I couldn't possibly made the kind of money I have (With all of my investments moved into "safe" groups, I only made $50,000 last month. And
that even before Trump takes office!)

Your great pal Gavin Loathsome is going to take the money out of the
welfare funding so that he can summport NOT actually helping the illegal
aliens but in suing the Trump administration through his law firm buddies
so that he has a guaranteed job when the voters kick him out of office.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:56:21 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 12/14/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4
year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as
"antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors >>>> had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated classes >>>> (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have enough
units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when seats in my >>>> major became available. At one point, I was drafted and went as far as >>>> getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to convince the draft
board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high >>>> school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you haven't >>>> personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you
had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band
radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible. >>>>

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off? >>> Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement he
finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes but
not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

You may be mistaken.

In Mahoning county, 50636 voters or 44.9% voted for Ms
Harris. That's slightly higher than Ohio overall but not by
much.

She didn't even get 37% in my county. It's the Democrats here who are
ashamed to have Harris/Walz stickers on their cars. I saw a few before
the election, but I think a lot of them have been ripped off.

Me? I don't put political stickers on my vehicles but I do wear my red
or white Maga hats and I seldom go anywhere without one of my
political slogan t-shirts. I don't have many t-shirts that don't have
a message or a slogan on it. I even have one that advertises a bike
shop in another state.

--
C'est bon
Soloman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:31:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 2:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall
off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him
over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement
he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes
but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

:-) Last night I paid some bills via the internet. I was pleased to see
that the state teacher's retirement system gave us an extra bonus check yesterday. Let me know if you need a loan, Tom.

So even your state teachers retirement system is happy that Trump was
elected. They would NOT have done that if the hyena was elected.

I made $50,000 last month alone and presently I have all of my high growth investments out and stable interest paying investments in. Next month I
won't even notice that I gave my brothers $30,000 each.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:56:21 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/14/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4
year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as
"antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing.
Seniors had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some
unrelated classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in
order to have enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to
catch up when seats in my major became available. At one point, I
was drafted and went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but
was able to convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay
in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from
high school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By
your own criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which
you haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you
had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band
radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing
intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall
off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him
over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement
he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes
but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

You may be mistaken.

In Mahoning county, 50636 voters or 44.9% voted for Ms Harris. That's slightly higher than Ohio overall but not by much.

Remember, despite the failed Democrat strategy to pretend that there is
such a thing as a popular vote it is the Democrats themselves who put into effect the "winjner takes all" strategy.

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the "popular vote" that Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full 25% of electoral
votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we should eliminate
the electoral system and go with the "entirely Democratic" popular vote. Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular vote which is
EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral system - a board
of representatives is less likely to be swayed by the latest popular ideas
such as mRNA GMO's being safe and effective. Which they said even after
all of the animal test subjects were killed by the mRNA. Now we know that
the three or four companies that opted to use the mRNA falsified their
test data. Biden has forgiven them there sins as a Good God does.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/14/2024 6:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:31:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 2:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall
off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him
over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement
he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes
but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

:-) Last night I paid some bills via the internet. I was pleased to see
that the state teacher's retirement system gave us an extra bonus check
yesterday. Let me know if you need a loan, Tom.

So even your state teachers retirement system is happy that Trump was elected. They would NOT have done that if the hyena was elected.

I made $50,000 last month alone

lol...sure ya did, sparky...

and presently I have all of my high growth

investments out and stable interest paying investments in. Next month I
won't even notice that I gave my brothers $30,000 each.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 10:52:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2024 10:08 PM, John B. wrote:

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the "popular vote" that
Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full 25% of electoral >>> votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we should eliminate >>> the electoral system and go with the "entirely Democratic" popular vote. >>> Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party was the
largest in the Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential elections,
based on their population.

Not quite. The electoral college was designed so residents of tiny
states with small populations could still feel they had influence. That
might have made sense in the early days, when former colonies still
thought of themselves more as colonists than as members of a nation.

A few weeks ago I came across an article talking about the last great
effort to do away with the electoral college. The effort was led by
Senator Birch Bayh. He convinced a huge majority of the citizenry that
it was time to dump the anachronism. He got strong approval in the U.S. >House, but got filibustered in the Senate.

The effort continued, but according to the article, two things prevented >success. One was that some Democratic groups (e.g. a Black political >association in New York, I think) realized that their influence within
their state would be less likely to be effective nationally; and
crucially, President Richard Nixon removed his previous strong support.
Why? Because he got pissed at Bayh for not looking the other way at
Nixon's own corruption.

Actually, the EC still makes sense to the people of the lessor
populated states, which is why Bayh's effort never had a chance and
why, today, it's even less likely to go away. It takes the
legislatures in 38 states to ratify amendments to the Constitution.

--
C'est bon
Soloman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/14/2024 4:41 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:56:21 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 12/14/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 >>>>>> year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as >>>>> "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft. >>>>> There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment >>>>> was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all >>>>> of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There >>>>> was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The >>>>> colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors >>>>> had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated classes >>>>> (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have enough >>>>> units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when seats in my >>>>> major became available. At one point, I was drafted and went as far as >>>>> getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to convince the draft >>>>> board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high >>>>> school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own >>>>> criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you haven't >>>>> personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you >>>>>> had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band
radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible. >>>>>

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment. >>>>> Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off? >>>> Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over >>>> for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement he >>> finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes but
not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

You may be mistaken.

In Mahoning county, 50636 voters or 44.9% voted for Ms
Harris. That's slightly higher than Ohio overall but not by
much.

She didn't even get 37% in my county. It's the Democrats here who are
ashamed to have Harris/Walz stickers on their cars. I saw a few before
the election, but I think a lot of them have been ripped off.

Me? I don't put political stickers on my vehicles but I do wear my red
or white Maga hats and I seldom go anywhere without one of my
political slogan t-shirts. I don't have many t-shirts that don't have
a message or a slogan on it. I even have one that advertises a bike
shop in another state.

--
C'est bon
Soloman

all the best people...

http://www.yellowjersey.org/DELACAMR.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/14/2024 9:08 PM, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:38:22 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:56:21 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/14/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 >>>>>>> year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as >>>>>> "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft. >>>>>> There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment >>>>>> was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all >>>>>> of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There >>>>>> was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The >>>>>> colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing.
Seniors had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some
unrelated classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in
order to have enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to
catch up when seats in my major became available. At one point, I >>>>>> was drafted and went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but >>>>>> was able to convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay >>>>>> in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from
high school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By
your own criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which >>>>>> you haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you >>>>>>> had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band >>>>>>> radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing
intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment. >>>>>> Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several >>>>> days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall
off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him
over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement
he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes >>>> but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

You may be mistaken.

In Mahoning county, 50636 voters or 44.9% voted for Ms Harris. That's
slightly higher than Ohio overall but not by much.

Remember, despite the failed Democrat strategy to pretend that there is
such a thing as a popular vote it is the Democrats themselves who put into >> effect the "winjner takes all" strategy.

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the "popular vote" that
Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full 25% of electoral
votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we should eliminate >> the electoral system and go with the "entirely Democratic" popular vote.
Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party was the
largest in the Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential elections,
based on their population.

uh, the 'Electrical System' is East US, West US and Texas.
I think you meant 'electoral'.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/15/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 10:08 PM, John B. wrote:

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the
"popular vote" that
Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full
25% of electoral
votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we
should eliminate
the electoral system and go with the "entirely
Democratic" popular vote.
Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular
vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party
was the
largest in the  Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral
system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a
union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each
state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential
elections,
based on their population.

Not quite. The electoral college was designed so residents
of tiny states with small populations could still feel they
had influence. That might have made sense in the early days,
when former colonies still thought of themselves more as
colonists than as members of a nation.

A few weeks ago I came across an article talking about the
last great effort to do away with the electoral college. The
effort was led by Senator Birch Bayh. He convinced a huge
majority of the citizenry that it was time to dump the
anachronism. He got strong approval in the U.S. House, but
got filibustered in the Senate.

The effort continued, but according to the article, two
things prevented success. One was that some Democratic
groups (e.g. a Black political association in New York, I
think) realized that their influence within their state
would be less likely to be effective nationally; and
crucially, President Richard Nixon removed his previous
strong support. Why? Because he got pissed at Bayh for not
looking the other way at Nixon's own corruption.

There are many such examples, and many more arguments were
made, over our history.

But, as it stands, more dead people voted in recent
elections in Los Angeles County alone that there are living
souls in Wyoming (registered voter and not).

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/la-county-and-state-to-purge-15-million-inactive-voters-from-rolls/6866/

Decentralization of elections while observing the
sovereignty of the various States is a feature not a bug.



--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 12:56:19 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 12/15/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 10:08 PM, John B. wrote:

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the
"popular vote" that
Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full
25% of electoral
votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we
should eliminate
the electoral system and go with the "entirely
Democratic" popular vote.
Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular
vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party
was the
largest in the  Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral
system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a
union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each
state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential
elections,
based on their population.

Not quite. The electoral college was designed so residents
of tiny states with small populations could still feel they
had influence. That might have made sense in the early days,
when former colonies still thought of themselves more as
colonists than as members of a nation.

A few weeks ago I came across an article talking about the
last great effort to do away with the electoral college. The
effort was led by Senator Birch Bayh. He convinced a huge
majority of the citizenry that it was time to dump the
anachronism. He got strong approval in the U.S. House, but
got filibustered in the Senate.

The effort continued, but according to the article, two
things prevented success. One was that some Democratic
groups (e.g. a Black political association in New York, I
think) realized that their influence within their state
would be less likely to be effective nationally; and
crucially, President Richard Nixon removed his previous
strong support. Why? Because he got pissed at Bayh for not
looking the other way at Nixon's own corruption.

There are many such examples, and many more arguments were
made, over our history.

But, as it stands, more dead people voted in recent
elections in Los Angeles County alone that there are living
souls in Wyoming (registered voter and not).

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/la-county-and-state-to-purge-15-million-inactive-voters-from-rolls/6866/

Decentralization of elections while observing the
sovereignty of the various States is a feature not a bug.

+1

--
C'est bon
Soloman

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:41:17 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 21:19:06 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>> >>>insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something
even worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on >>>>>>> >>a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>> >>The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>> >>forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>> >>which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>> >><https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>> >>the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well
behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend >>>>>>> >>to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> >B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> >they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> >reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>> >3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as
though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>> >A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's
something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and >>>>>>> forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret >>>>>>things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS >>>>>>Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left >>>>>>hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone >>>>>>like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where >>>>>>broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back >>>>>>including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South >>>>>>Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>>>growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>>>vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people >>>>>>that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>>>operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>>>stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do >>>>>>not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is
nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of
the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words,
a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, >>>>> in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics?
What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/ >>>>154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>
I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know >>>>nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but >>>>they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest >>>>attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your
tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you
were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you were
never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. But
I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you changed >>basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful people.

While overseas I never heard a mention of TAC or SAC, it was the 14th
Air Commando Wing at Nha Trang Air Base when I was there, under the
command of the United States Pacific Air Forces (PACAF) Seventh Air
Force.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone and
2. Why don't you include the airspace above north and south Vietnam as >>being in Vietnam?

I thought I asked you whether you were paying income tax or not - we
didn't in Vietnam - a war zone - and you never answered.

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of TDY. I >>even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the autopilot and >>allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam moving towards the
DMZ.

Tommy stop lying. Nobody sits in the A.C.'S seat except the A.C. You
saying that the let you fly the airplane is so ridicules that it isn't
even funny.
As for flying on a mission I have heard that was done when it was
possible that a technician could fix something in flight but I'm
guessing that was a rare happening and the thought of a shop chief
sending a half trained A2C to do the job is, again, ridicules.
Particularly as said A2C has confessed that his usual "work" was to
carry the tool bag for a competent A1C.

In short, you have,once again, proved yourself a liar.

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in the
Air Force that have your number.

I wonder what goes on inside that empty head of yours? According to you,
on s 12 hour flight the AC would not have to even take a piss, let alone
crap. Those facilities according to you were just put in the aircraft for
show. It certainly seems like you can't stand the idea that someone else
that was in the Air Force has your number. A fucking crew chief NEVER flew
on his aircraft and wouldn't have the slightest idea of what goes on
during a mission, you liar.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:41:17 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 21:19:06 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back
months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>> >>>insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something
even worse than botching a component installation yet again!

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he
sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or
sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He
might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles on >>>>>>> >>a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure,
untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather difficult. >>>>>>> >>The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>> >>forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>> >>which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>> >><https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>> >>the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well
behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs tend >>>>>>> >>to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on
about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of the >>>>>>> >B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and then >>>>>>> >they returned and a different group was selected but for whatever >>>>>>> >reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam for >>>>>>> >3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam as
though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 year >>>>>>> >A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all?

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time.
Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely
fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from
Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's
something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam
Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam.
Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back and >>>>>>> forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret >>>>>>things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS >>>>>>Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and left >>>>>>hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone >>>>>>like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops where >>>>>>broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back >>>>>>including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South >>>>>>Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>>>growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>>>vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people >>>>>>that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various
points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>>>operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>>>stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. Do >>>>>>not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change the
topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is
nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of
the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other words,
a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical
miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so you, >>>>> in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics?
What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/ >>>>154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>
I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know >>>>nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but >>>>they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest >>>>attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your
tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you
were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you were
never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. But
I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you changed >>basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful people.

While overseas I never heard a mention of TAC or SAC, it was the 14th
Air Commando Wing at Nha Trang Air Base when I was there, under the
command of the United States Pacific Air Forces (PACAF) Seventh Air
Force.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone and
2. Why don't you include the airspace above north and south Vietnam as >>being in Vietnam?

I thought I asked you whether you were paying income tax or not - we
didn't in Vietnam - a war zone - and you never answered.

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of TDY. I >>even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the autopilot and >>allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam moving towards the
DMZ.

Tommy stop lying. Nobody sits in the A.C.'S seat except the A.C. You
saying that the let you fly the airplane is so ridicules that it isn't
even funny.
As for flying on a mission I have heard that was done when it was
possible that a technician could fix something in flight but I'm
guessing that was a rare happening and the thought of a shop chief
sending a half trained A2C to do the job is, again, ridicules.
Particularly as said A2C has confessed that his usual "work" was to
carry the tool bag for a competent A1C.

In short, you have,once again, proved yourself a liar.

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in the
Air Force that have your number.

I do find it interesting that you are completely unaware of the fact that
while there was a unit of the 7th Air Force in Vietnam, it was largely in Thailand. I also find it incriminating that you do not know that it was
part of TAC. If you don't even know that how could you possibly know what occurred on Missions? And tell us again how the AC never took a piss or
that there wasn't an Air Force rule that both aircraft control stations
were not supposed to be manned at all times. Your lies are getting ahead
of you. Crew Chiefs knew NOTHING about an aircraft in the air. Give us
some more of your stupid bullshit.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 07:06:58 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 18:47:37 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 12:41:17 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 21:19:06 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B.
<slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back >>>>>>>>> >>>months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>> >>>insults and threats at those who have disrespected him.

Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>> >>>even worse than botching a component installation yet again! >>>>>>>>> >>

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he >>>>>>>>> >>sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or >>>>>>>>> >>sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He >>>>>>>>> >>might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles >>>>>>>>> >>on a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure, >>>>>>>>> >>untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather
difficult.
The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>>>> >>forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>>>> >>which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>>>> >><https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>>>> >>the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well >>>>>>>>> >>behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs >>>>>>>>> >>tend to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on >>>>>>>>> >about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of >>>>>>>>> >the B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and >>>>>>>>> >then they returned and a different group was selected but for >>>>>>>>> >whatever reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam >>>>>>>>> >for 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam >>>>>>>>> >as though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 >>>>>>>>> >year A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all? >>>>>>>>>

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time. >>>>>>>>> Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely >>>>>>>>> fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from >>>>>>>>> Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's
something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>>LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam >>>>>>>>> Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>>p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam. >>>>>>>>> Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back >>>>>>>>> and forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>>Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret >>>>>>>>things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS >>>>>>>>Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and >>>>>>>>left hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone >>>>>>>>like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops >>>>>>>>where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all back >>>>>>>>including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South >>>>>>>>Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>>>>>growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the American >>>>>>>>vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of the people >>>>>>>>that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various >>>>>>> points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>>>>>operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT you >>>>>>>>stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial aircraft. >>>>>>>>
You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. >>>>>>>>Do not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change
the topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is >>>>>>> nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of >>>>>>> the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other
words, a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical >>>>>>> miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so
you,
in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics? >>>>>>> What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/ >>>>>>154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>
I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>>>didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You know >>>>>>nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad vomit but >>>>>>they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the slightest >>>>>>attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your
tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you
were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you
were never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. >>>>But I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you >>>>changed basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of useful >>>>people.

So much for your knowledge of the structure of the /air Force:

In January 1946, Generals Eisenhower and Spaatz agreed on an Air Force organization composed of the Strategic Air Command, the Air Defense
Command, the Tactical Air Command, the Air Transport Command and the supporting Air Technical Service Command, Air Training Command, the Air University, and the Air Force Center.

More proof that you were never in the Air Force at all.

Now we have Slocomb telling us that he was in the Air Force in 1946. That
he had to LOOK it up to know that the fighter squadrons were a part of the Tactical Air Command. I don't believe that he was ever in Vietnam at all
since MOST of the 7th Airforce was in Thailand where he retired.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon Dec 9 06:26:53 2024 zen cycle wrote:

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly
his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Iws there anything in thie lifrtime where you will say something tht you actually know rather than pretend to know because there isn't anything that you do know?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 15 07:06:58 2024 John B. wrote:

So much for your knowledge of the structure of the /air Force:

In January 1946, Generals Eisenhower and Spaatz agreed on an Air Force organization composed of the Strategic Air Command, the Air Defense
Command, the Tactical Air Command, the Air Transport Command and the supporting Air Technical Service Command, Air Training Command, the
Air University, and the Air Force Center.

More proof that you were never in the Air Force at all.

Of course most people would know that those other commands were supporting rolls for SAC or TAC. What's more, they were do limited that both the Army and the Navy had to form their own air commands.

But our "extremely important quallified machinist Crew Chief" has information you never even knew you wznted, His bullshit is running overtime but you'll notice that he doesn't actually say what his job was for the Air Force support company. He may not
have been qualified to drive a street sweeper up and down the runways of an airbase because he only took writeups and towed aircraft to the fueling pits.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 8 16:35:39 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year >degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated
classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have
enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when
seats in my major became available. At one point, I was drafted and
went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to
convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you
haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your >interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

Call it anything you like. You werer nothing more thanb a slimy draft dodger but God got even with you by turning your weak mind off.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 8 23:10:41 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year >> degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated
classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when
seats in my major became available. At one point, I was drafted and
went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to
convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you
haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your
interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

I will just note that Frank feels very uncomrfortable when I keep making points. According to him Trump barely won when in fact he held a 75/25 victory. So I guess teaching mechanical engineering and all of the mathematics that entails doesn't allow you
to understand the Electoral systen from which this land is governed.

Frank, don't you EVER see how stupid you are?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 22:52:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Sun Dec 8 16:35:39 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year
degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as
"antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors
had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated
classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have
enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when
seats in my major became available. At one point, I was drafted and
went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to
convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high
school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you
haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your
interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

Call it anything you like.

What is "it"? I didn't call "it" anything.

You werer nothing more thanb a slimy draft dodger but God got even with you by turning your weak mind off.

Still having trouble attracting attention to your numerous problems?
Insulting your audience, lying and then changing the topic, is not a
good way to start a discussion. As I mentioned:
"Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that".

We both made our life's decisions at about the same age and time. I'm
not totally satisfied that they were the best choices, but I don't
regret my decisions and am fairly satisfied with the results. That
doesn't seem to be the case with your choices. Berating me cannot
repair the damage you've done to yourself.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 17:37:06 -0500, Zen Cycle wrote:

On 12/16/2024 5:24 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Dec 9 06:26:53 2024 zen cycle wrote:

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly
his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Iws there anything in thie lifrtime where you will say something tht
you actually know rather than pretend to know because there isn't
anything that you do know?

tell us again how how 226 EC votes for harris and 312 EC votes for trump
is 25%/75?

Most people that were capable of simple arithmatic would have left that
alone. But not Flunky, he has to demonstrate why his is called Flunky.
312/226 = 1.36 Or Trump had a 36% lead DESPITE massive election fraud in California and New York. In California they stopped counting the votes in
front of the voter so that they could toss out Republican votes. But fear
not, Krygowski is even better with understanding the American election
system. It is his belief that California and New York should be able to
elect and President and to hell with the rest of the country. I suppose he
is angry that the people of Ohio preferred Trump to Harris. No sane person would vote for Harris hence, in California and New York, there was massive election fraud.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 07:27:57 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 18:57:56 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 06:26:53 -0500, zen cycle wrote:

On 12/8/2024 4:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B.
<slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back >>>>>>>>>>>> months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>>>>> even worse than botching a component installation yet again! >>>>>>>>>>>

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he >>>>>>>>>>> sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or >>>>>>>>>>> sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He >>>>>>>>>>> might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles >>>>>>>>>>> on a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure, >>>>>>>>>>> untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather
difficult.
The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>>>>>> forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>>>>>> which can be identified by his name vacillating between
"cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>>>>>> the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well >>>>>>>>>>> behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs >>>>>>>>>>> tend to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on >>>>>>>>>> about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of >>>>>>>>>> the B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and >>>>>>>>>> then they returned and a different group was selected but for >>>>>>>>>> whatever reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam >>>>>>>>>> for 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam >>>>>>>>>> as though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 >>>>>>>>>> year A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all? >>>>>>>>>

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time. >>>>>>>>> Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely >>>>>>>>> fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from >>>>>>>>> Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's
something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>> LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam >>>>>>>>> Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>> p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam. >>>>>>>>> Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back >>>>>>>>> and forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>> Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret >>>>>>>> things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS >>>>>>>> Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and >>>>>>>> left hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone >>>>>>>> like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops >>>>>>>> where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all
back including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South >>>>>>>> Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>>>>> growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the
American vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of >>>>>>>> the people that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various >>>>>>> points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>>>>> operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT >>>>>>>> you stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial
aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. >>>>>>>> Do not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change
the topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is >>>>>>> nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of >>>>>>> the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other
words, a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical >>>>>>> miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so
you,
in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics
equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics? >>>>>>> What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for
Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before,
during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>>> didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You
know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad
vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the >>>>>> slightest attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your
tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you
were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you
were never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity.
But I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you
changed basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of
useful people.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone
and 2. Why don't you include the airspace above north and south
Vietnam as being in Vietnam?

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of
TDY. I even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the
autopilot and allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam
moving towards the DMZ.

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly
his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in
the Air Force that have your number.

Every time you comment you show what an utter fool you are. A B52 flies >>easily. The PILOT is called a co-pilot in commercial aviation and the >>military equivilent of the "pilot" is the Aircraft Commander. While in a >>war zone it was manditory that both seats be manned at all times. So
when the AC or Pilot left to use the head, the Electronics Warfare
Officer WHO ALSO HAD NO FLIGT TRAINING AT ALL would sit in the open
seat. But the EWO was a lot more vsluable at his station making sure
that we could not be tracked by missiles.

More proof that you never flew on a B-52 and may never in the Air Force
at all.

Multi engine airplanes have two "pilots". The guy in the Left Hand seat
is the Aircraft Commander and is equal of a Navy "Captain" in that the entire airplane and all in it are under his command. And whether he is sitting in his seat or gets up to pee he is always the sole commander of
the aircraft and the your assertion that some untrained A2c or even
another member of the crew would sit in his seat is again ridicules, if
no other reason that what they do there? They have no idea of that the
AC does in flight.

Your arguments seem more and more to indicate that you don't know what
you are talking and may not even have been in the Air Force at all.
Were you one of those that ran away to Canada to avoid the draft?

John, you were a CREW CHIEF. The only thing you did was take writeups by
the crew, distribute those to the proper maiuntenance shops and to the
aircraft to the refueling pits. Quit pretending that you actually know
ANYTHING about the operation of the aircraft.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/17/2024 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 17:37:06 -0500, Zen Cycle wrote:

On 12/16/2024 5:24 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Dec 9 06:26:53 2024 zen cycle wrote:

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly >>>> his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Iws there anything in thie lifrtime where you will say something tht
you actually know rather than pretend to know because there isn't
anything that you do know?

tell us again how how 226 EC votes for harris and 312 EC votes for trump
is 25%/75?

Most people that were capable of simple arithmatic would have left that alone. But not Flunky, he has to demonstrate why his is called Flunky. 312/226 = 1.36 Or Trump had a 36% lead DESPITE massive election fraud in California and New York. In California they stopped counting the votes in front of the voter so that they could toss out Republican votes. But fear not, Krygowski is even better with understanding the American election system. It is his belief that California and New York should be able to
elect and President and to hell with the rest of the country. I suppose he
is angry that the people of Ohio preferred Trump to Harris. No sane person would vote for Harris hence, in California and New York, there was massive election fraud.

I get 57.9%, not 75%.
What brand of abacus are you using?

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/17/2024 4:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 17:37:06 -0500, Zen Cycle wrote:

On 12/16/2024 5:24 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Dec 9 06:26:53 2024 zen cycle wrote:

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly >>>> his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Iws there anything in thie lifrtime where you will say something tht
you actually know rather than pretend to know because there isn't
anything that you do know?

tell us again how how 226 EC votes for harris and 312 EC votes for trump
is 25%/75?

Most people that were capable of simple arithmatic would have left that alone. But not Flunky, he has to demonstrate why his is called Flunky. 312/226 = 1.36 Or Trump had a 36% lead

Most people capable of simple arithmetic know that is not how one
derives percentages of a total.

DESPITE massive election fraud in
California and New York.

That's a lie

In California they stopped counting the votes in
front of the voter so that they could toss out Republican votes.

That's a lie

<snipped incoherent babble>

The man whose bewildering linkedin reference claims he's 'capable of
applying complex calculus' first claims a vote result of 312/226 is
75%/25%, then claims it's 36%.

Go ahead tommy, this should be childs play for a software genius like
you - show us the work of how you got 75%/25% from 312/226


--
Add xx to reply

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/17/2024 4:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/17/2024 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 17:37:06 -0500, Zen Cycle wrote:

tell us again how how 226 EC votes for harris and 312 EC votes for trump >>> is 25%/75?

Most people that were capable of simple arithmatic would have left that
alone. But not Flunky, he has to demonstrate why his is called Flunky.
312/226 = 1.36 Or Trump had a 36% ...

I get 57.9%, not 75%.
What brand of abacus are you using?

I've graded a LOT of mathematics over my decades in engineering
education. I don't remember a student so incompetent, nor one who tried
such an incompetent defense of his mistakes.


--
- Frank Krygowski

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 16:46:59 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

I can only gaze with aw on a school that teaches ". tractor driving
and tractor mechanics". Perhaps I should apply for a degree as I was
driving a tractor when I was 12 years old.

The college was Cal Poly Pomona.
<https://www.cpp.edu>
Originally, it was an agricultural college. When the space race
arrived in the 1960's, someone decided that there was more happening
in engineering, so they added an engineering school. That was also
the Vietnam War era, where students were looking for a way to avoid
being drafted into military service. Engineering offered a deferment
while agriculture did not.

Getting a seat in undergraduate engineering classes was difficult. The
colleges were packed. It was required to take 15 units per quarter of
relevant classes in order obtain a deferment which was also difficult. Fortunately, there were some marginal classes which were deemed
"useful" which including various mechanical trades. Tractor driving
and mechanics were agricultural classes, but were accepted as elective
classes for engineering. I took advantage of these classes.

Cal Poly also enters and builds a "rose float" for the annual New
Years Rose Parade in Pasadena, CA. <https://www.google.com/search?q=cal+poly+rose+parade+float&udm=2> <https://magazine.calpoly.edu/spring-summer-2024/75-years-of-rose-float/> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_Poly_Universities_Rose_Float> <https://www.facebook.com/rosefloat/photos>

The Cal Poly entry was built in the school tractor barn and decorated
with flowers at the Rose Palace in Pasadena. This is a photo of me at
work:
<https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/RoseFloat01.jpg>
I worked on the electrically powered float animation, which at the
time was powered by windshield wiper motors. Also the heavily
modified gasoline tractor engine that powered the float and hydraulic
pumps. I also rode inside the float in 1970 and 1971. The photo
above was where I was sitting, operating the switches that ran the
electrical powered animation.
<https://www.rosefloat.org/floats-from-1971-1980> <https://www.rosefloat.org/floats-from-1961-1970>

Although it didn't seem useful at the time, I learned many useful
things about the practical parts of engineering working on the rose
floats, such as gas and stick welding. There were other marginal
college activities that eventually proved useful, such as helping
build a Yellow Cab (taxi) that ran in the Baja 500. It survived the
first 100 miles until the rear axle died.

I had a good time and I think you would have also enjoyed the
experience. However, it's probably too late, not because you're too
old but because the college has changed. Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process
involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All
the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs. When I attended Cal Poly Pomona, a large
number of laboratory classes were required for an engineering degree.
The school mottos was "Learn By Doing". It was engineering where I
arrived clean and left covered in mud, oil, dirt, slag, turning and occasionally some bruises. Most of the labs disappeared after
accreditation.





--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process
involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All
the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has
always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by the
state of Ohio, the university administration and internal requirements
of the Faculty Senate.

IME, the battle usually came down to ABET vs. Faculty Senate. Each
academic department represented in the Senate felt like its topic was
critical for all university graduates, and wanted to make its courses mandatory. But the state put a lid on the total number of hours required
for graduation, and ABET had strong minimums for various technical topics.

We were able to argue effectively that no, we can't mandate yet another
"soft" course (Communications IV, History of the Balkans, 17th Century
Scottish Poetry or whatever) without losing accreditation. Heck, we once
shot down a proposed Physics department mandate for Quantum Physics. Too
many hours in our curriculum, and that topic just isn't practical for
most engineers.


--
- Frank Krygowski

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process
involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All
the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has
always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How is that possible? Don't you have to actually have a running program
before seeking accreditation? If, on the other hand, your college
predates ABET then it can't have always been accredited by ABET.

the state of Ohio, the university administration and internal
requirements of the Faculty Senate.

--

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 19 Dec 2024 12:59:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process
involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All
the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has
always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by the >state of Ohio, the university administration and internal requirements
of the Faculty Senate.

IME, the battle usually came down to ABET vs. Faculty Senate. Each
academic department represented in the Senate felt like its topic was >critical for all university graduates, and wanted to make its courses >mandatory. But the state put a lid on the total number of hours required
for graduation, and ABET had strong minimums for various technical topics.

We were able to argue effectively that no, we can't mandate yet another >"soft" course (Communications IV, History of the Balkans, 17th Century >Scottish Poetry or whatever) without losing accreditation. Heck, we once
shot down a proposed Physics department mandate for Quantum Physics. Too
many hours in our curriculum, and that topic just isn't practical for
most engineers.

If there were any curriculum negotiations while I was attending Cal
Poly Pomona, I didn't attend them or hear about them. Not much I can
say about the accreditation process except that I didn't like the
result when I visited Cal Poly. As I recall, accreditation was
announced after I had graduated and was gone. Accreditation was
managed by the WSCUC:
<https://www.wscuc.org>

However, that unearthed a problem. My diploma says that I graduated
on Jun 18, 1971: <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/diploma-jeffl.jpg>
However, the WASC[1] documents for accrediting Cal Poly Pomona show
1970, at which time I was still attending college. <https://www.wscuc.org/institutions/california-state-polytechnic-university-pomona/>

The school had changed its official name from "California State
Polytechnic College, Pomona" to "California State Polytechnic
University, Pomona" in 1972. Therefore the older name is correct for
1971 and 1972:
<https://libguides.library.cpp.edu/c.php?g=686944&p=5013734>
"The school changed its name to California State Polytechnic College, Kellogg-Voorhis to emphasize its connection to the CSC system and,
having grown large enough to be granted university status, adopted its
final name, California State Polytechnic University, Pomona, in 1972."

Therefore, I apparently was mistaken about the timing (or just didn't
notice any changes in curriculum). I was not affected because at the
time, I was in my senior year and the replacement of the shop classes
were several years behind me. I also managed to graduate in the one
year when the college name was changing[2].

[1] The WASC and WSCUC organizations merged a few years ago.

[2] To maximize confusion, Cal Poly changed from the semester system
to the quarter system just before I arrived at Cal Poly in Sept 1968.
They changed back to the semester system in fall of 2018. <https://www.cpp.edu/semester/index.shtml>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/19/2024 1:38 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process
involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All
the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has
always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How is that possible? Don't you have to actually have a running program before seeking accreditation? If, on the other hand, your college
predates ABET then it can't have always been accredited by ABET.

<sigh> OK, the program was not accredited by ABET when the dinosaurs
walked the earth. It was not accredited by ABET before Ohio was a state.
It was not accredited by ABET before the university became a state
school. It was not accredited by ABET until after it first applied for accreditation, which was before I began teaching there.

But it's been accredited by ABET ever since, and at least a couple times
we were granted the longest possible (six year) accreditation at a time
that only ten percent of similar programs got that recognition.


--
- Frank Krygowski

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 1:38 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process
involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All
the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has
always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How is that possible? Don't you have to actually have a running
program
before seeking accreditation? If, on the other hand, your college
predates ABET then it can't have always been accredited by ABET.

<sigh> OK, the program was not accredited by ABET when the dinosaurs
walked the earth. It was not accredited by ABET before Ohio was a
state. It was not accredited by ABET before the university became a
state school. It was not accredited by ABET until after it first
applied for accreditation, which was before I began teaching there.

So we've established that the program you worked in was accredited
when you started there. *That* is very likely true.

The equivalence between "while I was there" and "forever" seems just a
little weird.


--

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

On 12/20/2024 4:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 1:38 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process >>>>>> involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All >>>>>> the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless
general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has >>>>> always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How is that possible? Don't you have to actually have a running
program
before seeking accreditation? If, on the other hand, your college
predates ABET then it can't have always been accredited by ABET.

<sigh> OK, the program was not accredited by ABET when the dinosaurs
walked the earth. It was not accredited by ABET before Ohio was a
state. It was not accredited by ABET before the university became a
state school. It was not accredited by ABET until after it first
applied for accreditation, which was before I began teaching there.

So we've established that the program you worked in was accredited
when you started there. *That* is very likely true.
The equivalence between "while I was there" and "forever" seems just
a
little weird.

If you're trying to be pedantic, quoting "forever" also seems "just a
little weird." Note that the word "forever" was not used in my post.

But your corrections are as welcome as ever! I do keep trying to do my
best. ;-)

I took "always" as synonymous with "forever", a minor shade of meaning.
You on the other hand, claimed that the program you taught in was
"always" accredited, when in fact you meant that it was accredited since
some time that could well have been after Mr. Liebermann graduated
university.

--

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue Dec 17 16:43:20 2024 Zen Cycle wrote:

On 12/17/2024 4:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 17:37:06 -0500, Zen Cycle wrote:

On 12/16/2024 5:24 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Dec 9 06:26:53 2024 zen cycle wrote:

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly >>>> his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Iws there anything in thie lifrtime where you will say something tht
you actually know rather than pretend to know because there isn't
anything that you do know?

tell us again how how 226 EC votes for harris and 312 EC votes for trump >> is 25%/75?

Most people that were capable of simple arithmatic would have left that alone. But not Flunky, he has to demonstrate why his is called Flunky. 312/226 = 1.36 Or Trump had a 36% lead

Most people capable of simple arithmetic know that is not how one
derives percentages of a total.

DESPITE massive election fraud in
California and New York.

That's a lie

In California they stopped counting the votes in
front of the voter so that they could toss out Republican votes.

That's a lie

<snipped incoherent babble>

The man whose bewildering linkedin reference claims he's 'capable of
applying complex calculus' first claims a vote result of 312/226 is
75%/25%, then claims it's 36%.

Go ahead tommy, this should be childs play for a software genius like
you - show us the work of how you got 75%/25% from 312/226

Tell us all how you know what happens in California? Is this more of your expert advice on friction shifting?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 8 23:40:19 2024 zen cycle wrote:
7

I was never in the military

Then what makes you think that you know anything about it? Is this another of you fake news that Shadow is an MD?

Flunky tells us that he isn't a QC manager and then gives us a fancy title that means QC manager. I'm impressed, Aren't you?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 15:55:41 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

On 12/20/2024 4:29 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 1:38 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gXXmail.com> writes:

On 12/19/2024 12:14 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Some time after I graduated,
the bureaucracy decided to have the college accredited. The process >>>>>>> involved a review of the curriculum by a committee of academics. All >>>>>>> the useful classes were removed and replaced with mostly useless >>>>>>> general education programs.

It's interesting that you found that to be the case. Our program has >>>>>> always been accredited by ABET, plus having to meet standards set by >>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

How is that possible? Don't you have to actually have a running
program
before seeking accreditation? If, on the other hand, your college
predates ABET then it can't have always been accredited by ABET.

<sigh> OK, the program was not accredited by ABET when the dinosaurs
walked the earth. It was not accredited by ABET before Ohio was a
state. It was not accredited by ABET before the university became a
state school. It was not accredited by ABET until after it first
applied for accreditation, which was before I began teaching there.

So we've established that the program you worked in was accredited
when you started there. *That* is very likely true.
The equivalence between "while I was there" and "forever" seems just
a
little weird.

If you're trying to be pedantic, quoting "forever" also seems "just a
little weird." Note that the word "forever" was not used in my post.

But your corrections are as welcome as ever! I do keep trying to do my
best. ;-)

I took "always" as synonymous with "forever", a minor shade of meaning.

I don't know about ABET, but the bureaucracy that provided
accreditation for Cal Poly Pomona requires the accreditation to be
renewed every 10 years.
<https://www.cpp.edu/wscuc/index.shtml>
In other words, accreditation isn't forever.

You on the other hand, claimed that the program you taught in was
"always" accredited, when in fact you meant that it was accredited since
some time that could well have been after Mr. Liebermann graduated >university.

The mess with accreditation in 1971 was the year I graduated. I have
no idea how this might affect the accreditation for Frank's
university. However, you mentioned:
"Don't you have to actually have a running program before seeking accreditation?"
The way you asked the question (i.e. seeking vs obtaining), the answer
is no. The university does not need to have a running program before
seeking accreditation. The university has some kind of program in
place when it applies. That program is evaluated by the accreditation bureaucracy which makes recommendations for the changes necessary to
obtain accreditation. It can take years before the modified program
is in place before accreditation is approved. That's what I'm slowly
finding out about my graduation, where accreditation was apparently
back dated to 1971. I'm not sure this is correct yet as I'm waiting
for replies from the university and WSCUS.

Notice the each "school" within the university is individually
accredited: <https://www.wscuc.org/institutions/california-state-polytechnic-university-pomona/?print=pdf>
Just to make things weird, I can't find a school for "Electrical and
Electronic Engineering" as inscribed on my diploma on the above list.
Also notice that there were some schools accredited before 1970, when supposedly the university was first accredited.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 15 10:08:10 2024 John B. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:38:22 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Remember, despite the failed Democrat strategy to pretend that there is >such a thing as a popular vote it is the Democrats themselves who put into >effect the "winjner takes all" strategy.

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the "popular vote" that >Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full 25% of electoral >votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we should eliminate >the electoral system and go with the "entirely Democratic" popular vote. >Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party was the
largest in the Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential elections,
based on their population.

John why are you showing that you don't undestand English and repeating what I said?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 15 12:56:19 2024 AMuzi wrote:

On 12/15/2024 9:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 10:08 PM, John B. wrote:

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the
"popular vote" that
Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full
25% of electoral
votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we
should eliminate
the electoral system and go with the "entirely
Democratic" popular vote.
Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular
vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party
was the
largest in the Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral
system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a
union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each
state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential
elections,
based on their population.

Not quite. The electoral college was designed so residents
of tiny states with small populations could still feel they
had influence. That might have made sense in the early days,
when former colonies still thought of themselves more as
colonists than as members of a nation.

A few weeks ago I came across an article talking about the
last great effort to do away with the electoral college. The
effort was led by Senator Birch Bayh. He convinced a huge
majority of the citizenry that it was time to dump the
anachronism. He got strong approval in the U.S. House, but
got filibustered in the Senate.

The effort continued, but according to the article, two
things prevented success. One was that some Democratic
groups (e.g. a Black political association in New York, I
think) realized that their influence within their state
would be less likely to be effective nationally; and
crucially, President Richard Nixon removed his previous
strong support. Why? Because he got pissed at Bayh for not
looking the other way at Nixon's own corruption.

There are many such examples, and many more arguments were
made, over our history.

But, as it stands, more dead people voted in recent
elections in Los Angeles County alone that there are living
souls in Wyoming (registered voter and not).

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/la-county-and-state-to-purge-15-million-inactive-voters-from-rolls/6866/

Decentralization of elections while observing the
sovereignty of the various States is a feature not a bug.

I really don't know what to make of Krygowski. I became an engineer on the simple ability to think. Eisenhower chose Nixon as his running mate for the very simple reason that he was probably thge finest in6ternational scholar alive at that time. It was
nesessary for the Demecrats to silence Nixon because not only did he make sense to most Americans but he promised the dawn of a brave new Republican world.

Therefore the Democrats had to commit election fraud on a grander scale than they had been doing. Nixon commented on that in front of Colonel Oliver North and North decided he had to know what the Democrats' plans were. So he planned and invaded the
Democrats inner sanctom. It was plan that Nixon had nothing to do with it because it was clumbsy and ineffective, far different from what Nixon would have done. But the Slime Stream Media dumped it into Nixon's lap and hounded him into resigning. To that
point most of the media was at least polite. But the moment they smelled blood in the water, like the sharks they were, they were tearing Nixon to bits. I wish to remind you of Nixon's last speech. "Your President is not a crook." What's more he never
needed to be one.

Now here are 50 years after the event and even from that distance Krygowski still cannot think about what happened. Even with the Nixon Foundation'z vidios of Nixon speeches showing him to have been far too smart to even try something like Watergate.

Krygowski insists on being stupid because Nixon was a first class Liberal whereas Frank is and remains a stupid socialist.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 15 06:44:42 2024 zen cycle wrote:

On 12/14/2024 6:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:31:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 2:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several >>>> days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall
off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him
over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement
he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes >>> but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

:-) Last night I paid some bills via the internet. I was pleased to see
that the state teacher's retirement system gave us an extra bonus check
yesterday. Let me know if you need a loan, Tom.

So even your state teachers retirement system is happy that Trump was elected. They would NOT have done that if the hyena was elected.

I made $50,000 last month alone

lol...sure ya did, sparky...

and presently I have all of my high growth

investments out and stable interest paying investments in. Next month I won't even notice that I gave my brothers $30,000 each.

It doesn't matter because yuu've told us that "what's the use of having money if you don't throw it away"?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat Dec 14 20:55:23 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 6:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:31:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/14/2024 2:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several >>>> days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall
off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him
over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement
he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes >>> but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

:-) Last night I paid some bills via the internet. I was pleased to see
that the state teacher's retirement system gave us an extra bonus check
yesterday. Let me know if you need a loan, Tom.

So even your state teachers retirement system is happy that Trump was elected. They would NOT have done that if the hyena was elected.

I'm shaking my head. No matter which way facts and figures come out, you
try to paint everything as evidence that your particular politics are infallible.

"Frank's going broke and it's because of Biden." "Oops, Frank's doing well... um, but it's because of Trump."

Ah well. At least I'm not the guy who lost money during the Obama years,
when everyone's investments but Tom's soared.

More invention from the man who would be Jobst.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 8 23:42:25 2024 zen cycle wrote:

On 12/8/2024 11:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 year >>> degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as >> "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft.
There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment
was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all
of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There
was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The
colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing. Seniors >> had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some unrelated
classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in order to have
enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to catch up when
seats in my major became available. At one point, I was drafted and
went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but was able to
convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay in school.

So after all that time
in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from high >> school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By your own
criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which you
haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than
the analog radio knowledge you had before going to college from your
interesst in citizen's band radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing intelligible. >>

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment.
Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several
days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall off? Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him over
for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

his wife took away his booze money

And yet you tell us that you go out drinking with your "buddies" (read queers).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue Dec 17 17:03:53 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/17/2024 4:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/17/2024 3:02 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 17:37:06 -0500, Zen Cycle wrote:

tell us again how how 226 EC votes for harris and 312 EC votes for trump >>> is 25%/75?

Most people that were capable of simple arithmatic would have left that
alone. But not Flunky, he has to demonstrate why his is called Flunky.
312/226 = 1.36 Or Trump had a 36% ...

I get 57.9%, not 75%.
What brand of abacus are you using?

I've graded a LOT of mathematics over my decades in engineering
education. I don't remember a student so incompetent, nor one who tried
such an incompetent defense of his mistakes.

And yet you didn't correct me. Why was that Mr. "graded many mathamatics"?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 17:32:42 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Eisenhower chose Nixon as his running mate for the very simple reason that he was probably thge finest in6ternational scholar alive at that time. It was nesessary for the Demecrats to silence Nixon because not only did he make sense to most Americans

but he promised the dawn of a brave new Republican world.

Therefore the Democrats had to commit election fraud on a grander scale than they had been doing. Nixon commented on that in front of Colonel Oliver North and North decided he had to know what the Democrats' plans were. So he planned and invaded the

Democrats inner sanctom. It was plan that Nixon had nothing to do with it because it was clumbsy and ineffective, far different from what Nixon would have done. But the Slime Stream Media dumped it into Nixon's lap and hounded him into resigning. To that
point most of the media was at least polite. But the moment they smelled blood in the water, like the sharks they were, they were tearing Nixon to bits. I wish to remind you of Nixon's last speech. "Your President is not a crook." What's more he never
needed to be one.

Now here are 50 years after the event and even from that distance Krygowski still cannot think about what happened. Even with the Nixon Foundation'z vidios of Nixon speeches showing him to have been far too smart to even try something like Watergate.

Krygowski insists on being stupid because Nixon was a first class Liberal whereas Frank is and remains a stupid socialist.

This is closer to reality on why Eisenhower wanted Nixon as VP. <https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/mep/displaydoc.cfm?docid=erpn-ricnix>
I guess(tm) this is what you consider to be an "international
scholar".
"Nixon was kept outside of the president's inner circle, yet he
developed considerable skill in foreign policy, which was demonstrated
in his 1959 confrontation in Moscow with Soviet premier Nikita
Khrushchev, known as the kitchen debate."

You also screwed up your dates and events, but I don't have time to
fix that for you.

Eisenhower wanted Nixon as VP because Nixon was viewed a fervent
anti-communist because he was a member of the HUAC (House Un-American Activities Committee) and because he worked on alien registration
laws. At the time, the "Red Scare" was very much on everyone's mind. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare#Second_Red_Scare_(1947%E2%80%931957)>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 14:39:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:

On 12/22/2024 12:51 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Dec 16 22:36:57 2024 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/16/2024 5:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

I will just note that Frank feels very uncomrfortable when I keep making points. According to him Trump barely won when in fact he held a 75/25 victory.

Oh, please DO show us your "75/25" computations in detail!

After telling us that you had to teach high level math it sort of stood out that you didn't correct me.

It's obvious your "75/25" statement was wrong. If you want me to correct
your math in detail - that is, so you wouldn't repeat your mistake -
you'd have to show me your work.

You've refused to do that. I can't help you.

Help is always possible. Whether the recipient is interested in being
helped is the current problem. Tom wants to be the source and origin
of literally everything in rec.bicycles.tech. If someone else makes a
valid claim, backs it with references and explains how it works in
detail, Tom will want no part of it and claim that it's a Democratic
party conspiracy. He might also claim that he didn't see the message,
couldn't read it because his anti-virus program wasn't allowing him to
see it, or simply ignore any further discussion on the topic.

These Percentage Vote Calculators might help, assuming Tom is able to
read, think and calculate: <https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/statistics/vote-percentage-calculator.php>
<https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-percentage-of-votes-calculated-in-an-election-For-instance-if-there-are-1000-voters-and-one-candidate-receives-500-votes-what-would-be-the-percentage>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed Dec 18 12:05:45 2024 John B. wrote:

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 21:08:43 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 07:27:57 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 18:57:56 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Mon, 09 Dec 2024 06:26:53 -0500, zen cycle wrote:

On 12/8/2024 4:19 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 01 Dec 2024 14:03:59 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 22:31:30 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 13:27:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 18:30:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

On Mon Nov 4 00:06:49 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 04 Nov 2024 12:37:45 +0700, John B.
<slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2024 19:12:04 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 20:49:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Tom's demons are strong and raging today! He's digging back >>>>>>>>>>>>> months to resurrect piles of dead threads so he can hurl more >>>>>>>>>>>>> insults and threats at those who have disrespected him. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Something very bad must have happened at his home. Something >>>>>>>>>>>>> even worse than botching a component installation yet again! >>>>>>>>>>>>

It probably wasn't something "bad". My guess(tm) is that he >>>>>>>>>>>> sorted his news readers list of articles by name, subject or >>>>>>>>>>>> sender, instead of by date. It's easy to do by accident. He >>>>>>>>>>>> might have also turned off threading, which arranges articles >>>>>>>>>>>> on a given "Subject" into a tree. Without the tree structure, >>>>>>>>>>>> untangling articles into a logical sequence is rather >>>>>>>>>>>> difficult.
The resulting mess also explains why Tom is switching back and >>>>>>>>>>>> forth between two newsreaders (newshosting.com reader and Pan) >>>>>>>>>>>> which can be identified by his name vacillating between >>>>>>>>>>>> "cyclintom" and "Tom Kunich". The newshosting.com newsreader: >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader/>
is also responsible for the multiple "RE: Re: RE: Re:" mess in >>>>>>>>>>>> the subject line. The Windoze version of Pan is also well >>>>>>>>>>>> behind the current Linux version, which means that Pan bugs >>>>>>>>>>>> tend to become permanent.

I really wonder about some of Tommy's posts. He goes on and on >>>>>>>>>>> about the period he seems to have spent at Guam in support of >>>>>>>>>>> the B-52 missions over N Vietnam.

Our base sent people temporary duty to Guam for 90 days and >>>>>>>>>>> then they returned and a different group was selected but for >>>>>>>>>>> whatever reason they weren't required to go.

So out of a 4 year enlistment some of out guys served in Guam >>>>>>>>>>> for 3 months but Tommy's post are all about his service in Guam >>>>>>>>>>> as though that was the only place he served during his entire 4 >>>>>>>>>>> year A.F. service... or maybe he was never in the A.F. at all? >>>>>>>>>>

I don't know anything about how the USAF operated at the time. >>>>>>>>>> Presumably, it was after he had some training, possibly at Lowry >>>>>>>>>> AFB from 1961 to 1962 as shown on his online resume at:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

I didn't know what to think until Tom posted a highly unlikely >>>>>>>>>> fantasy about how the USAF sent avionics for him to fix from >>>>>>>>>> Vietnam to Tom in Oakland and then back to Vietnam. Here's >>>>>>>>>> something on that amazing claim. There's more but it's late and >>>>>>>>>> I'm burned out from relaxing too much today:

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>>> LCkJkdp7BwAJ>
"I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam >>>>>>>>>> Airlift as an avionics technician."

07/04/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>>> p0Ugd2OEBwAJ>
The Vietnam Airlift lasted a grand total of 2 days:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
I'm missing something here. The Vietnam Airlift was in Vietnam. >>>>>>>>>> Bayaire was in Oakland, CA. Did they fly the helicopters back >>>>>>>>>> and forth across the Pacific Ocean?

07/05/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/ >>>>>>> Hvi1fsv9AQAJ>
More on Bayaire Avionics.

Jeff, you've never done anything. Please don't try to interpret >>>>>>>>> things you can't understand. The Vietnam airlift wasn't that ASS >>>>>>>>> Bidens retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq which took 2 days and >>>>>>>>> left hundreds of American behind.

Vietnam was a planned retreat that Nixon planned and not someone >>>>>>>>> like you who doesn't know anything. All of the Aemrican troops >>>>>>>>> where broght back as a reduction of force until they were all >>>>>>>>> back including all of the civilian agencies and most of the South >>>>>>>>> Vietnamese government who would have been slaughtered.

Why exactly do you lie about everything?

Where did the Air Force send me anything to fix for them? Is your >>>>>>>>> growing dementia getting these sorts of answers?

What dod Helicopters have to do with anything? All of the
American vehicles were shipped back to the US along with all of >>>>>>>>> the people that used or maintained them.

The airlift was bout moving people out of South Vietnam.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"More than 7,000 people were evacuated by helicopter from various >>>>>>>> points in Saigon."

More of the same:
<https://www.afhistory.af.mil/FAQs/Fact-Sheets/Article/458955/1975- >>>>>>> operation-babylift-and-frequent-wind/>

US military was returned to the states via COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT >>>>>>>>> you stupid twit. And Bayaire Avionics maintained commercial >>>>>>>>> aircraft.

You entire life has been one of bad decision after bad decision. >>>>>>>>> Do not think for one second that that is normal.

Tom. That's a really great example of you attempting to change >>>>>>>> the topic and divert attention away from your mistakes. There is >>>>>>>> nothing in your reply that mentions your airlift, the duration of >>>>>>>> the airlift,
or your 4 years working as an avionics technician. In other >>>>>>>> words, a random assortment of unrelated "facts".

The US "military" did not ship avionics equipment 6,800 nautical >>>>>>>> miles from Vietnam to Oakland California and back again just so >>>>>>>> you,
in a commercial avionics shop, could work on military avionics >>>>>>>> equipment. How would they get their training on military avionics? >>>>>>>> What happened to working on Guam?

Photo of the Bayaire Avionics hangar circa 1972:
<https://twinotterarchive.com/

154_N7663_unk_Oakland_Jul-1972_ejc_1024a.jpg>

I'm trying to visualize cramming a B-52 into that hangar.

I would be interested in knowing which 4 years you worked for >>>>>>>> Bayaire as an avionics technician in Oakland. Was that before, >>>>>>>> during or after you were in the USAF?

Tell everyone here what you personally knew about Vietnam that you >>>>>>> didn't get from Wikipedia? I was there and you were hiding. You >>>>>>> know nothing about it and pretend you do. You would make a toad >>>>>>> vomit but they are smarter than you and know better than to pay the >>>>>>> slightest attention to you.

You were in Vietnam? When was that? Before or after you spent your >>>>>> tour in Guam?

And where did you do for the other 3 years and some months that you >>>>>> were in the Air Force?

Or is your whole life a lie? You were never in the Air Force, you >>>>>> were never on Guam and you certainly were never in Vietnam.

John, you claim that you were in Vietnam but never in what capacity. >>>>> But I see no reason to doubt you. Even though it would mean that you >>>>> changed basic commands from SAC to TAC and SAC NEVER lets go of
useful people.

So 1. Why are you lying that Guam was not classified as a war zone >>>>> and 2. Why don't you include the airspace above north and south
Vietnam as being in Vietnam?

I was on at least 3 bombing missions to Vietnam in my 3 months of
TDY. I even was in the AC's position and the Pilot turned off the
autopilot and allowed me to fly the aircraft while over Vietnam
moving towards the DMZ.

yeah, a B-52 pilot would allow an airman with no pilot training to fly >>>> his plane...lol...sure tommy. Tell us another one....

Seems like you can't stand the idea that there were other people in >>>>> the Air Force that have your number.

Every time you comment you show what an utter fool you are. A B52 flies >>>easily. The PILOT is called a co-pilot in commercial aviation and the >>>military equivilent of the "pilot" is the Aircraft Commander. While in a >>>war zone it was manditory that both seats be manned at all times. So >>>when the AC or Pilot left to use the head, the Electronics Warfare >>>Officer WHO ALSO HAD NO FLIGT TRAINING AT ALL would sit in the open >>>seat. But the EWO was a lot more vsluable at his station making sure >>>that we could not be tracked by missiles.

More proof that you never flew on a B-52 and may never in the Air Force
at all.

Multi engine airplanes have two "pilots". The guy in the Left Hand seat
is the Aircraft Commander and is equal of a Navy "Captain" in that the
entire airplane and all in it are under his command. And whether he is
sitting in his seat or gets up to pee he is always the sole commander of >> the aircraft and the your assertion that some untrained A2c or even
another member of the crew would sit in his seat is again ridicules, if
no other reason that what they do there? They have no idea of that the
AC does in flight.

Your arguments seem more and more to indicate that you don't know what
you are talking and may not even have been in the Air Force at all.
Were you one of those that ran away to Canada to avoid the draft?

John, you were a CREW CHIEF. The only thing you did was take writeups by >the crew, distribute those to the proper maiuntenance shops and to the >aircraft to the refueling pits. Quit pretending that you actually know >ANYTHING about the operation of the aircraft.

Nope, in my day the Crew Chief and his crew maintained the engines
and airframe. Long before you joined the A.F. (if you ever did)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Why can't you keep yourself from telling lies? The crew chief had nothing to do with the engine and airframe mechanics beyond submitting write-ups from the crew or submitting your own writeup for normal timed maintenance.

John, it drives you nuts that you can't lie in front of someone who has been there. You didn't even know that there were SAC and TAC. So stop your trying to deny I was in thge Air Force. AF19748158 E2 with a level 5 maintenance level and a secret
security clearance until 9-11 when the government seized its chance to take away all of the clearances so that the could spend huge amounts of money to redocument your clearance.

Tell us again how you and your wife used to ride down into Bangkok.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 22 11:54:45 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 22 Dec 2024 17:32:42 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Eisenhower chose Nixon as his running mate for the very simple reason that he was probably thge finest in6ternational scholar alive at that time. It was nesessary for the Demecrats to silence Nixon because not only did he make sense to most Americans

but he promised the dawn of a brave new Republican world.

Therefore the Democrats had to commit election fraud on a grander scale than they had been doing. Nixon commented on that in front of Colonel Oliver North and North decided he had to know what the Democrats' plans were. So he planned and invaded the

Democrats inner sanctom. It was plan that Nixon had nothing to do with it because it was clumbsy and ineffective, far different from what Nixon would have done. But the Slime Stream Media dumped it into Nixon's lap and hounded him into resigning. To that
point most of the media was at least polite. But the moment they smelled blood in the water, like the sharks they were, they were tearing Nixon to bits. I wish to remind you of Nixon's last speech. "Your President is not a crook." What's more he never
needed to be one.

Now here are 50 years after the event and even from that distance Krygowski still cannot think about what happened. Even with the Nixon Foundation'z vidios of Nixon speeches showing him to have been far too smart to even try something like Watergate.

Krygowski insists on being stupid because Nixon was a first class Liberal whereas Frank is and remains a stupid socialist.

This is closer to reality on why Eisenhower wanted Nixon as VP. <https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/mep/displaydoc.cfm?docid=erpn-ricnix>
I guess(tm) this is what you consider to be an "international
scholar".
"Nixon was kept outside of the president's inner circle, yet he
developed considerable skill in foreign policy, which was demonstrated
in his 1959 confrontation in Moscow with Soviet premier Nikita
Khrushchev, known as the kitchen debate."

You also screwed up your dates and events, but I don't have time to
fix that for you.

Eisenhower wanted Nixon as VP because Nixon was viewed a fervent anti-communist because he was a member of the HUAC (House Un-American Activities Committee) and because he worked on alien registration
laws. At the time, the "Red Scare" was very much on everyone's mind. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare#Second_Red_Scare_(1947%E2%80%931957)>

As usual, Error 404 Page Not Found.

But Liebermann who wasn't alive at that time is willing to tell us all about it. Just like saying that the Techtronix wire fault detector is the way to measure wire length when it operates exactly like my home made device. Or that he could tell you that
I am wrong about mud conditions on Cull Canyon by looking at a picture from Google Earth of unknown date. Liebermann - your life is a failure because you can never learn from your mistakes.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun Dec 15 12:46:24 2024 John B. wrote:

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 10:08:10 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 23:38:22 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:56:21 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/14/2024 1:12 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 23:10:41 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 12/8/2024 7:35 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 22:46:45 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Tell us Liebermann, why did you spend 6 years in college to get a 4 >>>>>>> year degree? You told us it was to get antidraft status.

Close. It was to obtain a draft deferment. There's no such thing as >>>>>> "antidraft" unless you're referring to someone opposed to the draft. >>>>>> There were some other reasons why it took so long, but the deferment >>>>>> was the major motivation. For example, I had a part time job for all >>>>>> of the first 5 years and worked full time during two summers. There >>>>>> was also a problem getting into classes required for graduation. The >>>>>> colleges were overflowing with students doing the same thing.
Seniors had priority for obtaining seats. I had to take some
unrelated classes (i.e. tractor driving and tractor mechanics) in >>>>>> order to have enough units to obtain a deferment and later try to >>>>>> catch up when seats in my major became available. At one point, I >>>>>> was drafted and went as far as getting a pre-induction physical, but >>>>>> was able to convince the draft board that I should be allowed to stay >>>>>> in school.

So after all that time in school you learned nothing at all

Who are you to judge what I've learned? You didn't graduate from >>>>>> high school and therefore didn't have any college experience. By >>>>>> your own criteria, you're not qualified to judge anything with which >>>>>> you haven't personally experienced.

and exited it with nothing more than the analog radio knowledge you >>>>>>> had before going to college from your interesst in citizen's band >>>>>>> radios.

Nice word salad. Impressing sounding terms, but nothing
intelligible.

Bend over in front of Flunky and say "Please".

You're probably expecting me to get angry and react to that comment. >>>>>> Being angry makes you happy, so I'll have no part of that.

I'll just note that Tom has been stuck in high rant mode for several >>>>> days now. I wonder what's triggered him. Did another crank arm fall >>>>> off?
Did Janet Yellen refuse his phone consultation? Did Trump pass him >>>>> over for a Cabinet position yet again? ;-)

Poor little Frank, with Biden's inflation eating iunto his retirement >>>> he finds himself not wanted at Youngstown. Too woke. The world changes >>>> but not Krygowski. Socialism is out of fashion.

You may be mistaken.

In Mahoning county, 50636 voters or 44.9% voted for Ms Harris. That's >>> slightly higher than Ohio overall but not by much.

Remember, despite the failed Democrat strategy to pretend that there is >>such a thing as a popular vote it is the Democrats themselves who put into >>effect the "winjner takes all" strategy.

So it is ELECTORAL votes that count now and not the "popular vote" that >>Democrats are claiming was so close. Trump won by a full 25% of electoral >>votes and now you're hearing the Democrats crying that we should eliminate >>the electoral system and go with the "entirely Democratic" popular vote. >>Remember that Adolf Hitler was elected with the popular vote which is

Nope, Hitler was appointed as Chancellor because his party was the
largest in the Reichstag although not a majority.

EXACTLY why our founding fathers preferred the electoral system -

More bull shit. The U.S. was originally "designed" to be a union of
states and the Electrical system was designed to give each state
election authority, in presidential and vice presidential elections,
based on their population.

Obviously I misspelled a word... Electional perhaps?
--
Cheers,

John B.

Electoral College John.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)