A new fire has broken out in Hollywood Hills near LA.
Thanks to Democrats and non-tax paying or revenue generating bicyclists
who managed to steal lanes from public streets, occupants of dwellings in
the area cannot evacuate because there simply isn't enough street width to carry the traffic fast enough.
It's lined up for several miles and people could die.
Thank a Democrat and the two-wheeled law-breaking parasites who put human lives in danger.
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
New fire breaks out in Hollywood Hills
A new fire has broken out in the famed Runyon Canyon of Hollywood Hills.
It is being referred to as the Sunset Fire.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/la-fires-live-updates-2nd-fire- escalates-quickly/?id=117448186&entryId=117488094
On 1/8/2025 9:58 PM, Hug a tree wrote:
A new fire has broken out in Hollywood Hills near LA.
Thanks to Democrats and non-tax paying or revenue generating bicyclists
who managed to steal lanes from public streets, occupants of dwellings in
the area cannot evacuate because there simply isn't enough street width to >> carry the traffic fast enough.
It's lined up for several miles and people could die.
Thank a Democrat and the two-wheeled law-breaking parasites who put human
lives in danger.
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
New fire breaks out in Hollywood Hills
A new fire has broken out in the famed Runyon Canyon of Hollywood Hills.
It is being referred to as the Sunset Fire.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/la-fires-live-updates-2nd-fire-
escalates-quickly/?id=117448186&entryId=117488094
<Poe>
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black
pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
</Poe>
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black
pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!! >https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:03:48 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The Hollywood Reservoir hold much water because it's probably unsafe.
It's been half full for the past 94 years:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Reservoir#Geography>
"The reservoir has a capacity of 7,900 acre-feet..."
"In 1931, the LADWP made the decision to permanently keep the
Hollywood Reservoir lowered, and keep it to no more than 4,000
acre-feet (4,900,000 m3). The reservoir now is usually maintained at
about 2,800 acre-feet (3,500,000 m3)."
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black
pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the
covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
Not Jewish. The space lasers were intended to be used by PG&E to
clear room for the high speed rail project. I read it on the internet
so it must be true:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser" <https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html>
"Forests don’t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
On 1/9/2025 2:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:03:48 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The Hollywood Reservoir hold much water because it's probably unsafe.
It's been half full for the past 94 years:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Reservoir#Geography>
"The reservoir has a capacity of 7,900 acre-feet..."
"In 1931, the LADWP made the decision to permanently keep the
Hollywood Reservoir lowered, and keep it to no more than 4,000
acre-feet (4,900,000 m3). The reservoir now is usually maintained at
about 2,800 acre-feet (3,500,000 m3)."
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black
pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >>> covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
Not Jewish. The space lasers were intended to be used by PG&E to
clear room for the high speed rail project. I read it on the internet
so it must be true:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser"
<https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html>
"Forests don’t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
That can't be true.
Nothing on this earth will speed California's high speed
rail project.
Seventeen years on, the first track is being laid. The $33
billion system is now estimated at $135 billion (the smart
money would bet that it goes much higher).
There's still no plan to actually extend it into SF or into LA.
It's often said that cancer is like poverty in that more--
people live off them than die from them. Similarly, this
project may actually be an example of perpetual life, albeit
in a zombie state of promising completion "soon, but not
this year".
Sympathetic report:
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/state/first-tracks-laid-in-california-high-speed-rail-project/article_d2533dff-6731-5802-b394-b501c95c0892.html
Critical report:
https://www.hoover.org/research/californias-high-speed-rail-was-fantasy-its-inception
"Forests don’t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
Seventeen years on, the first track is being laid. The $33
billion system is now estimated at $135 billion (the smart
money would bet that it goes much higher).
There's still no plan to actually extend it into SF or into LA.
Very true. However, the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
I'll just wait for VTOL aircraft, personal helicopter commuting, jet
packs, inflatable automobiles for easy parking, rocket mail,
self-balancing Segway scooters, vacuum trains, maglev trains, cheap
energy storage, and other science fiction dreams. Real-soon-now.
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 14:34:36 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 2:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:03:48 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The Hollywood Reservoir hold much water because it's probably unsafe.
It's been half full for the past 94 years:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Reservoir#Geography>
"The reservoir has a capacity of 7,900 acre-feet..."
"In 1931, the LADWP made the decision to permanently keep the
Hollywood Reservoir lowered, and keep it to no more than 4,000
acre-feet (4,900,000 m3). The reservoir now is usually maintained at
about 2,800 acre-feet (3,500,000 m3)."
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black >>>> pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >>>> covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
Not Jewish. The space lasers were intended to be used by PG&E to
clear room for the high speed rail project. I read it on the internet
so it must be true:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser"
<https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html>
"Forests don’t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
That can't be true.
I read it on the internet so it must be true.
Nothing on this earth will speed California's high speed
rail project.
Seventeen years on, the first track is being laid. The $33
billion system is now estimated at $135 billion (the smart
money would bet that it goes much higher).
There's still no plan to actually extend it into SF or into LA.
Very true. However, the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail" <https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation" <https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'll just wait for VTOL aircraft, personal helicopter commuting, jet
packs, inflatable automobiles for easy parking, rocket mail,
self-balancing Segway scooters, vacuum trains, maglev trains, cheap
energy storage, and other science fiction dreams. Real-soon-now.
It's often said that cancer is like poverty in that more
people live off them than die from them. Similarly, this
project may actually be an example of perpetual life, albeit
in a zombie state of promising completion "soon, but not
this year".
Sympathetic report:
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/state/first-tracks-laid-in-california-high-speed-rail-project/article_d2533dff-6731-5802-b394-b501c95c0892.html
Critical report:
https://www.hoover.org/research/californias-high-speed-rail-was-fantasy-its-inception
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
"Forests don’t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
PG+E had not been clearing branches near some of its electric
lines. For which they have been fined and sued.
On 1/9/2025 2:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:03:48 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The Hollywood Reservoir hold much water because it's probably unsafe.
It's been half full for the past 94 years:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Reservoir#Geography>
"The reservoir has a capacity of 7,900 acre-feet..."
"In 1931, the LADWP made the decision to permanently keep the
Hollywood Reservoir lowered, and keep it to no more than 4,000
acre-feet (4,900,000 m3). The reservoir now is usually maintained at
about 2,800 acre-feet (3,500,000 m3)."
 The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black
pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >>> covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-
Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
Not Jewish. The space lasers were intended to be used by PG&E to
clear room for the high speed rail project. I read it on the internet
so it must be true:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser"
<https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-
wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html>
"Forests don’t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
That can't be true.
Nothing on this earth will speed California's high speed rail project.
Seventeen years on, the first track is being laid. The $33 billion
system is now estimated at $135 billion (the smart money would bet that
it goes much higher).
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in
France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in
France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not even
in the same league.
Am 09.01.2025 um 21:34 schrieb AMuzi:
On 1/9/2025 2:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:03:48 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The Hollywood Reservoir hold much water because it's probably unsafe.
It's been half full for the past 94 years:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Reservoir#Geography>
"The reservoir has a capacity of 7,900 acre-feet..."
"In 1931, the LADWP made the decision to permanently keep the
Hollywood Reservoir lowered, and keep it to no more than 4,000
acre-feet (4,900,000 m3). The reservoir now is usually maintained at
about 2,800 acre-feet (3,500,000 m3)."
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black >>> pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >>> covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-
Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
Not Jewish. The space lasers were intended to be used by PG&E to
clear room for the high speed rail project. I read it on the internet >> so it must be true:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser"
<https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-
wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html>
"Forests don?t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
That can't be true.
Nothing on this earth will speed California's high speed rail project.
Seventeen years on, the first track is being laid. The $33 billion
system is now estimated at $135 billion (the smart money would bet that
it goes much higher).
This is very typical for new rail projects in Democracies even with an extremely good business plan.
Planning started to brige the biggest bottleneck in the German rail
system in 1993.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt%E2%80%93Mannheim_high-speed_railway>
The "final route alignment" was approved around 2022. Maybe in 2030,
the money will be found to start laying track...
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 14:34:36 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 2:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jan 2025 07:03:48 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
The only thing in Hollywood's favor is that they have a reservoir.
The Hollywood Reservoir hold much water because it's probably unsafe.
It's been half full for the past 94 years:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Reservoir#Geography>
"The reservoir has a capacity of 7,900 acre-feet..."
"In 1931, the LADWP made the decision to permanently keep the
Hollywood Reservoir lowered, and keep it to no more than 4,000
acre-feet (4,900,000 m3). The reservoir now is usually maintained at
about 2,800 acre-feet (3,500,000 m3)."
The fires were caused by jewish space lasers controlled by the black >>> pope!!! They are the same ones that formulated graphene particles in the >>> covid vaccines to allow mind control through the 5G network!!!
https://indepthnh.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/COVID-Report-from-Rep.-Weyler-3.pdf
Not Jewish. The space lasers were intended to be used by PG&E to
clear room for the high speed rail project. I read it on the internet
so it must be true:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene Blamed Wildfires on Secret Jewish Space Laser"
<https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/marjorie-taylor-greene-qanon-wildfires-space-laser-rothschild-execute.html>
"Forests don?t just catch fire, you know. Rather, the blazes had been
started by PG&E, in conjunction with the Rothschilds, using a space
laser, in order to clear room for a high-speed rail project."
That can't be true.
I read it on the internet so it must be true.
Nothing on this earth will speed California's high speed
rail project.
Seventeen years on, the first track is being laid. The $33
billion system is now estimated at $135 billion (the smart
money would bet that it goes much higher).
There's still no plan to actually extend it into SF or into LA.
Very true. However, the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail" <https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation" <https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'll just wait for VTOL aircraft, personal helicopter commuting, jet
packs, inflatable automobiles for easy parking, rocket mail,
self-balancing Segway scooters, vacuum trains, maglev trains, cheap
energy storage, and other science fiction dreams. Real-soon-now.
It's often said that cancer is like poverty in that more
people live off them than die from them. Similarly, this
project may actually be an example of perpetual life, albeit
in a zombie state of promising completion "soon, but not
this year".
Sympathetic report:
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/state/first-tracks-laid-in-california-high-speed-rail-project/article_d2533dff-6731-5802-b394-b501c95c0892.html
Critical report:
https://www.hoover.org/research/californias-high-speed-rail-was-fantasy-its-inception
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail" <https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation" <https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in
France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not even
in the same league.
--
pothead
"Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life"
"Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican"
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up,"
--- Barack H. Obama
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
wrote:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and
maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/
chapter-7- case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/
sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage
of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-
litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We
rode the TGV in
France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who
used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail
system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in
US it's not even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-
country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind
the U.S. in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far
lower car ownership and were thus more amenable to tax
dollars going to rail, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's
sort of a shame we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot
of freeway driving these days. I'd prefer a choice.
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-
case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-
e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in
France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe >>> is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not
even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in >cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and
were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't
seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these
days. I'd prefer a choice.
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs:
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-
case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-
e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time
and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in
France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe >>> is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not
even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and
were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't
seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these
days. I'd prefer a choice.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you >have for the same reasons.
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-
case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-
e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe >>>> is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not
even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in
cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and
were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't
seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these
days. I'd prefer a choice.
Roger Merriman
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you >> have for the same reasons.
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-
e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe >>>>> is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in >>> cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and
were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't
seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame >>> we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these
days. I'd prefer a choice.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries
seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little
sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it
will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike
safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also
plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with
motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide
enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or
train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up
30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in
the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
On 1/10/2025 8:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/ chapter-7- >>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/ sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail- litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in
Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's
not even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by- country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S.
in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership
and were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that
doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a
shame we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving
these days. I'd prefer a choice.
It's complex.
As with the California fiasco, every mayor and county board chairman
wants a station in exchange for right of way. Add too many stations and
you have a "low speed rail' system.
For more modest projects, the past 30 years or so most commuting for
work is suburb to suburb, not outlying areas to city center. There's
still plenty of both in our large cities, but taxing everyone for a very
limited rail path is a hard sell.
City to city like Shinkansen or TGV is possible and Bright Line seems to
have done that, but long term operational solvency is still up in the air. >>
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/brightline-posts-multimillion-dollar-
loss-profits-2023-read-why/7FD2AR2FBRDCBIC6I3XCNGDMOY/
So far no passenger rail in USA operates at a profit, most are deep in
the red for operations, and the capital costs (these are large numbers!)
have negative ROI.
ISTM that roads and highways don't operate at a "profit." With only the >rarest exceptions They are paid for entirely by tax dollars. I'm not
finding anything on private freeways, probably because they are not >economically viable. (Hwy 91 in CA seems to be a unique exception with >contentious results; and from what I can tell, the company that runs -
or ran? - it didn't have to pay for right-of-way acquisition or >construction.)
So the U.S. subsidizes road transport. Other countries do that, of
course, but they also subsidize rail transport. They don't expect it to
make a profit any more than we expect our freeways to make a profit.
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you >>> have for the same reasons.
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe >>>>>> is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in >>>> cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >>>> were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't >>>> seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame >>>> we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these
days. I'd prefer a choice.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries
seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little
sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it
will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Considering that all of your towns were built by rail would seem that the >train is very American! That there has been a move to Car centric culture
for last 70 something years doesn’t change that nor mean it couldn’t change >back, as ever these aren’t fixed.
Roger Merriman
On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 18:52:49 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7-
case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-
e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe >>> is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not
even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in >cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't
seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these
days. I'd prefer a choice.
It's not that we can't do that in the USA, it's just that there aren't
enough people choosing to ride trains to make it profitable.
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:50:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 8:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/ chapter-7- >>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/ sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail- litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in
Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's
not even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by- country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S.
in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership >>> and were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that
doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a
shame we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving
these days. I'd prefer a choice.
It's complex.
As with the California fiasco, every mayor and county board chairman
wants a station in exchange for right of way. Add too many stations and
you have a "low speed rail' system.
For more modest projects, the past 30 years or so most commuting for
work is suburb to suburb, not outlying areas to city center.? There's
still plenty of both in our large cities, but taxing everyone for a very >> limited rail path is a hard sell.
City to city like Shinkansen or TGV is possible and Bright Line seems to >> have done that, but long term operational solvency is still up in the air. >>
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/brightline-posts-multimillion-dollar-
loss-profits-2023-read-why/7FD2AR2FBRDCBIC6I3XCNGDMOY/
So far no passenger rail in USA operates at a profit, most are deep in
the red for operations, and the capital costs (these are large numbers!) >> have negative ROI.
ISTM that roads and highways don't operate at a "profit." With only the >rarest exceptions They are paid for entirely by tax dollars. I'm not >finding anything on private freeways, probably because they are not >economically viable. (Hwy 91 in CA seems to be a unique exception with >contentious results; and from what I can tell, the company that runs -
or ran? - it didn't have to pay for right-of-way acquisition or >construction.)
So the U.S. subsidizes road transport. Other countries do that, of
course, but they also subsidize rail transport. They don't expect it to >make a profit any more than we expect our freeways to make a profit.
The U S government subsidizes the transportation facilities that the
people prefer to use. Long distance passenger rail does not seem to be
one of them. It shrank because people didn't use it, unlike bicycle
trails and paths that are multiplying in leaps and bounds.
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
On Sat Jan 11 14:41:45 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:50:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 8:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >> >>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/ chapter-7- >> >>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/ sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3-
e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >> >>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail- litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >> >>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >> >>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in
Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's
not even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by- country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S.
in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership >> >>> and were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that
doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a
shame we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving
these days. I'd prefer a choice.
It's complex.
As with the California fiasco, every mayor and county board chairman
wants a station in exchange for right of way. Add too many stations and >> >> you have a "low speed rail' system.
For more modest projects, the past 30 years or so most commuting for
work is suburb to suburb, not outlying areas to city center.? There's
still plenty of both in our large cities, but taxing everyone for a very >> >> limited rail path is a hard sell.
City to city like Shinkansen or TGV is possible and Bright Line seems to >> >> have done that, but long term operational solvency is still up in the air.
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/brightline-posts-multimillion-dollar-
loss-profits-2023-read-why/7FD2AR2FBRDCBIC6I3XCNGDMOY/
So far no passenger rail in USA operates at a profit, most are deep in
the red for operations, and the capital costs (these are large numbers!) >> >> have negative ROI.
ISTM that roads and highways don't operate at a "profit." With only the
rarest exceptions They are paid for entirely by tax dollars. I'm not
finding anything on private freeways, probably because they are not
economically viable. (Hwy 91 in CA seems to be a unique exception with
contentious results; and from what I can tell, the company that runs -
or ran? - it didn't have to pay for right-of-way acquisition or
construction.)
So the U.S. subsidizes road transport. Other countries do that, of
course, but they also subsidize rail transport. They don't expect it to
make a profit any more than we expect our freeways to make a profit.
The U S government subsidizes the transportation facilities that the
people prefer to use. Long distance passenger rail does not seem to be
one of them. It shrank because people didn't use it, unlike bicycle
trails and paths that are multiplying in leaps and bounds.
There used top be the Shasta Dayolight that went from Oakland I believe to Seattle. That was a very profitable Northern Pacific route. You could sit in the lounge car which had a raised plastic top with totaol visibility through the heavily forestedroute to Seattle. That was MUCH more satisfying than getting on and off of a commrecial airline which at the time was DC5's or Constellations. I would gladly take that anytime. But all my Seattle side of the family are long gone and so are my Air Force
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it’s what London and other cities did in the 50’s with the pedways
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike
safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also
plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or >>> train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up
30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in
the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, >but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the >Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no >longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people >didn’t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
Roger Merriman
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation>
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in >>>>> cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >>>>> were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't >>>>> seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame >>>>> we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these >>>>> days. I'd prefer a choice.
have for the same reasons.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries
seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little
sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it
will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Considering that all of your towns were built by rail would seem that the
train is very American! That there has been a move to Car centric culture
for last 70 something years doesnÂ’t change that nor mean it couldnÂ’t change
back, as ever these arenÂ’t fixed.
Roger Merriman
People used to ride horses and buggies for transporation, too. As for
me, I can tolerate being confined for a few short hours to an
uncomfortable seat amongst a couple hundred other uncomfortable
passengers on an airplane, but not locked up for a couple of days on a
train.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:Plains are much more cramped and generally people in your space than trains >certainly intercity ones, plus one can wander to the buffet bar and so on.
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation> >>>>>>>>>
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/ >>>>>>>
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in >>>>>> cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >>>>>> were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't >>>>>> seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame >>>>>> we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these >>>>>> days. I'd prefer a choice.
have for the same reasons.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries >>>> seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little
sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it
will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Considering that all of your towns were built by rail would seem that the >>> train is very American! That there has been a move to Car centric culture >>> for last 70 something years doesn?t change that nor mean it couldn?t change >>> back, as ever these aren?t fixed.
Roger Merriman
People used to ride horses and buggies for transporation, too. As for
me, I can tolerate being confined for a few short hours to an
uncomfortable seat amongst a couple hundred other uncomfortable
passengers on an airplane, but not locked up for a couple of days on a
train.
A proper highspeed train of which America seems to have a massive 49.9 of >line that can handle the only just classified as Highspeed 150mph, the
Amtrak trains seem to average essentially fright speeds 50/60mph which in
the right situation is fine,.
I’ve taken the Caledonian sleeper to Fort William a few times, it’s around >that speeds but as you board the train in the Evening have a room and bed/s >and it arrives by the morning that works but even within UK which is quite
a bit smaller having intercity trains run so slow and uk Intercity trains >aren’t highspeed but they are double the speed I think they date from the >1970’s or thereabouts.
I don’t use intercity trains much as well while I live in a City I’m a hour >or so away from the intercity trains, at least ones I do use, and my >family/friends don’t live in cities so ends up with at least 2 trains to
and from the main line station plus probably a taxi or getting collected by >them.
A proper highspeed train absolutely could do intercity traffic and be >reasonable competitive vs air travel, lot less faff ie avoid airports!
--Roger Merriman
C'est bon
Soloman
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without >ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 21:52:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>route to Seattle. That was MUCH more satisfying than getting on and off of a commrecial airline which at the time was DC5's or Constellations. I would gladly take that anytime. But all my Seattle side of the family are long gone and so are my Air Force
wrote:
On Sat Jan 11 14:41:45 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:50:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 8:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's >>>>>>>>> high speed rail and were very impressed.
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/ chapter-7- >>>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/ sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail- litigation> >>>>>>>>>
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in >>>>>>>> Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's >>>>>>>> not even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by- country/ >>>>>>>
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. >>>>>> in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership >>>>>> and were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that >>>>>> doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a >>>>>> shame we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving >>>>>> these days. I'd prefer a choice.
It's complex.
As with the California fiasco, every mayor and county board chairman >>>>> wants a station in exchange for right of way. Add too many stations and >>>>> you have a "low speed rail' system.
For more modest projects, the past 30 years or so most commuting for >>>>> work is suburb to suburb, not outlying areas to city center.? There's >>>>> still plenty of both in our large cities, but taxing everyone for a very >>>>> limited rail path is a hard sell.
City to city like Shinkansen or TGV is possible and Bright Line seems to >>>>> have done that, but long term operational solvency is still up in the air.
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/brightline-posts-multimillion-dollar- >>>>> loss-profits-2023-read-why/7FD2AR2FBRDCBIC6I3XCNGDMOY/
So far no passenger rail in USA operates at a profit, most are deep in >>>>> the red for operations, and the capital costs (these are large numbers!) >>>>> have negative ROI.
ISTM that roads and highways don't operate at a "profit." With only the >>>> rarest exceptions They are paid for entirely by tax dollars. I'm not
finding anything on private freeways, probably because they are not
economically viable. (Hwy 91 in CA seems to be a unique exception with >>>> contentious results; and from what I can tell, the company that runs - >>>> or ran? - it didn't have to pay for right-of-way acquisition or
construction.)
So the U.S. subsidizes road transport. Other countries do that, of
course, but they also subsidize rail transport. They don't expect it to >>>> make a profit any more than we expect our freeways to make a profit.
The U S government subsidizes the transportation facilities that the
people prefer to use. Long distance passenger rail does not seem to be
one of them. It shrank because people didn't use it, unlike bicycle
trails and paths that are multiplying in leaps and bounds.
There used top be the Shasta Dayolight that went from Oakland I believe to Seattle. That was a very profitable Northern Pacific route. You could sit in the lounge car which had a raised plastic top with totaol visibility through the heavily forested
My wife convonced me once to take an ocean cruise. The room was nice,
the food was great, and I felt like I was locked up in a cage.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it’s what London and other cities did in the 50’s with the pedways
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike
safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also >>>> plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or >>>> train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up
30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in >>>> the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, >> but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the
Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no
longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people
didn’t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
Roger Merriman
Minneapolis system seems to work.
https://skywayaccess.com/
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 12 Jan 2025 10:00:23 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:Plains are much more cramped and generally people in your space than trains >> certainly intercity ones, plus one can wander to the buffet bar and so on.
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote: >>>>>
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation> >>>>>>>>>>
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>>>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/ >>>>>>>>
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in
cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >>>>>>> were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't >>>>>>> seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these >>>>>>> days. I'd prefer a choice.
have for the same reasons.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries >>>>> seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little >>>>> sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it >>>>> will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Considering that all of your towns were built by rail would seem that the >>>> train is very American! That there has been a move to Car centric culture >>>> for last 70 something years doesn?t change that nor mean it couldn?t change
back, as ever these aren?t fixed.
Roger Merriman
People used to ride horses and buggies for transporation, too. As for
me, I can tolerate being confined for a few short hours to an
uncomfortable seat amongst a couple hundred other uncomfortable
passengers on an airplane, but not locked up for a couple of days on a
train.
Babble in a confined space is worse for me than the uncomfortable
seats where people tend to keep quiet.
A proper highspeed train of which America seems to have a massive 49.9 of
line that can handle the only just classified as Highspeed 150mph, the
Amtrak trains seem to average essentially fright speeds 50/60mph which in
the right situation is fine,.
IÂ’ve taken the Caledonian sleeper to Fort William a few times, itÂ’s around >> that speeds but as you board the train in the Evening have a room and bed/s >> and it arrives by the morning that works but even within UK which is quite >> a bit smaller having intercity trains run so slow and uk Intercity trains
arenÂ’t highspeed but they are double the speed I think they date from the >> 1970Â’s or thereabouts.
I donÂ’t use intercity trains much as well while I live in a City IÂ’m a hour
or so away from the intercity trains, at least ones I do use, and my
family/friends donÂ’t live in cities so ends up with at least 2 trains to
and from the main line station plus probably a taxi or getting collected by >> them.
A proper highspeed train absolutely could do intercity traffic and be
reasonable competitive vs air travel, lot less faff ie avoid airports!
--Roger Merriman
C'est bon
Soloman
I'm not alone in my dislike for long distance rail travel. It died out because people didn't use it to the extent that it was profitable. I
suspect that if passenger trains were used as much as current
commercial air travel, the train stations would be as bad or worse
than airports.
Passenger trains may come back someday, but I won't be around to see
it. I'm good with that.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/12/2025 1:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it’s what London and other cities did in the 50’s with the pedways
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike >>>>> safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also >>>>> plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>>>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>>>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or >>>>> train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up >>>>> 30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in >>>>> the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, >>> but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the
Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no
longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people
didn’t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
Roger Merriman
Minneapolis system seems to work.
https://skywayaccess.com/
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Yes it's interesting but every system has its own features
and foibles:
https://accesspress.org/more-must-be-done-to-make-skyways-safer-accessible-to-all/
https://www.fox9.com/news/police-increase-patrols-in-south-minneapolis-after-17-muggings-in-1-week
https://www.businessnorth.com/daily_briefing/in-wake-of-skywalk-assault-city-officials-address-safety/article_eb1d5fa0-e7c4-11ee-96f5-cf1bac781de5.html
On 1/11/2025 4:18 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:route to Seattle. That was MUCH more satisfying than getting on and off of a commrecial airline which at the time was DC5's or Constellations. I would gladly take that anytime. But all my Seattle side of the family are long gone and so are my Air Force
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 21:52:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jan 11 14:41:45 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 12:50:17 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 8:56 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 5:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/ chapter-7- >>>>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/ sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail- litigation> >>>>>>>>>>
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in >>>>>>>>> Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's >>>>>>>>> not even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by- country/ >>>>>>>>
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. >>>>>>> in cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership >>>>>>> and were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that >>>>>>> doesn't seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a >>>>>>> shame we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving >>>>>>> these days. I'd prefer a choice.
It's complex.
As with the California fiasco, every mayor and county board chairman >>>>>> wants a station in exchange for right of way. Add too many stations and >>>>>> you have a "low speed rail' system.
For more modest projects, the past 30 years or so most commuting for >>>>>> work is suburb to suburb, not outlying areas to city center.? There's >>>>>> still plenty of both in our large cities, but taxing everyone for a very >>>>>> limited rail path is a hard sell.
City to city like Shinkansen or TGV is possible and Bright Line seems to >>>>>> have done that, but long term operational solvency is still up in the air.
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/brightline-posts-multimillion-dollar- >>>>>> loss-profits-2023-read-why/7FD2AR2FBRDCBIC6I3XCNGDMOY/
So far no passenger rail in USA operates at a profit, most are deep in >>>>>> the red for operations, and the capital costs (these are large numbers!) >>>>>> have negative ROI.
ISTM that roads and highways don't operate at a "profit." With only the >>>>> rarest exceptions They are paid for entirely by tax dollars. I'm not >>>>> finding anything on private freeways, probably because they are not
economically viable. (Hwy 91 in CA seems to be a unique exception with >>>>> contentious results; and from what I can tell, the company that runs - >>>>> or ran? - it didn't have to pay for right-of-way acquisition or
construction.)
So the U.S. subsidizes road transport. Other countries do that, of
course, but they also subsidize rail transport. They don't expect it to >>>>> make a profit any more than we expect our freeways to make a profit.
The U S government subsidizes the transportation facilities that the
people prefer to use. Long distance passenger rail does not seem to be >>>> one of them. It shrank because people didn't use it, unlike bicycle
trails and paths that are multiplying in leaps and bounds.
There used top be the Shasta Dayolight that went from Oakland I believe to Seattle. That was a very profitable Northern Pacific route. You could sit in the lounge car which had a raised plastic top with totaol visibility through the heavily forested
My wife convonced me once to take an ocean cruise. The room was nice,
the food was great, and I felt like I was locked up in a cage.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
You're a better man than I.
Even at girlfriend's request, I would have to decline.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it’s what London and other cities did in the 50’s with the pedways ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no longer accessible.
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike
safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also
plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or >>> train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up
30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in >>> the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people didn’t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> writes:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it’s what London and other cities did in the 50’s with the pedways
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike
safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also >>>> plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or >>>> train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up
30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in >>>> the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, >> but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the
Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no
longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people
didn’t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
On 1/14/2025 12:33 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> writes:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it’s what London and other cities did in the 50’s with the pedways
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike >>>>> safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also >>>>> plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>>>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>>>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or >>>>> train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up >>>>> 30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in >>>>> the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, >>> but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the
Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no
longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people
didn’t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. I read that between coats of paint and found it
quite interesting, having watched the Interstate being built
when I was young. Amazing diligence and a surprising outcome!
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A
REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
Are some old “bike friendly†steps etc with those in the vague area, definitely something that requires someone to either have nice light bike
or be fairly large and strong!
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/zuNZrLTTY4Pd6XY48> is okay in a doable way on the Gravel bike, MTB tyres are too fat! And utility bikes are bit of pig to manoeuvre up similar setups definitely subpar infrastructure!
On 1/14/2025 1:33 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
We had something very similar in our area. Until about ten years ago,
thee was a bridge crossing I-680 at Donald Ave. https://maps.app.goo.gl/Si35exuT7VhwnVLc6
Apparently what is now Stambaugh Charter School on the map was once
Stambaugh public school. The bridge over 680 was to allow students
east of 680 to walk to the school. But ODOT tore the bridge down, I
suppose because they felt the (minimal?) maintenance expense wasn't
justified by the pedestrian or bicycle traffic.
I used that bridge on a club ride that I led long ago, one I called
the Freeway Bridge Ride. We started at my area, south of Youngstown,
and rode a route the crossed every bridge over the freeway out to
where 680 left the city limits.
The idea came to me that freeways and surface streets are often
parallel universes. When you're driving a city freeway, it's easy to
lose track of which surface streets cross the freeway, or what
neighborhoods you're passing through. It was an interesting ride.
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A
REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
I read that, and though that would hardly pass muster today, the era of
the ADA.
Incidentally, the author is also responsible for the Spurious
Correlations web site:
<https://tylervigen.com>
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
Incidentally, the author is also responsible for the Spurious
Correlations web site:
<https://tylervigen.com>
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..." <https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
The highest correlation (r=0.964) is with "The number of like on Mark
Rober YouTube videos:" <https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
Incidentally, the author is also responsible for the Spurious
Correlations web site:
<https://tylervigen.com>
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..." ><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
The highest correlation (r=0.964) is with "The number of like on Mark
Rober YouTube videos:" ><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:57:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:
Incidentally, the author is also responsible for the Spurious >>>Correlations web site:
<https://tylervigen.com>
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..." >><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
The highest correlation (r=0.964) is with "The number of like on Mark
Rober YouTube videos:" >><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
wow! Who could have guessed? What does all that mean?
On 1/16/2025 3:57 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
Incidentally, the author is also responsible for the Spurious
Correlations web site:
<https://tylervigen.com>
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..."
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
The highest correlation (r=0.964) is with "The number of like on Mark
Rober YouTube videos:"
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
I was unaware of Mark Rober, but after checking youtube I'd suggest
there may be more of a causal link there.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 16:58:03 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:57:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:46:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>wrote:
Incidentally, the author is also responsible for the Spurious >>>>Correlations web site:
<https://tylervigen.com>
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..." >>><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
The highest correlation (r=0.964) is with "The number of like on Mark >>>Rober YouTube videos:" >>><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
wow! Who could have guessed? What does all that mean?
It means correlation does not imply causation. ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation>
Just because the trend lines for the number of likes on Mark Rober's
YouTube videos statistically correlates closely to the trend line for
the number of bicycle repair techs in California does no mean that one
can use future bicycle repair statistics to predict the number of
bicycle repair techs in the future.
The page of confusing statistics, numbers, formulas, etc are all about
where he obtained his data and how he calculated how close the two
trend lines match. That's the right way to "show your work" when one
makes a claim. I wish there were more such calculations.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding >glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered >gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults: ><https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists> ><https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids
interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 15:54:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..." >>>><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
Huh? Where do I find those future bicycle repair statistics?
You almost had me there. I think you didn't say what you meant to say,
but if I understand what you meant to say, I agree, I think...
The first requirement is to establish that the two events are related
in any way.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding >>glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered >>gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults: >><https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists> >><https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids >>interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
Cool dude. Good stuff. No, really good stuff. I'm going to watch some
more.
On 1/12/2025 11:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Modern (surviving) rail systems are very different
now and passenger rail is mostly dead except for publicly subsidized systems as they are not, and cannot be, profitable today.
Publicly subsidized highways can't be profitable either.
On Sun Jan 12 14:46:25 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/12/2025 11:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Modern (surviving) rail systems are very different
now and passenger rail is mostly dead except for publicly subsidized
systems as they are not, and cannot be, profitable today.
Publicly subsidized highways can't be profitable either.
Frank, when you don't know anything why do you comment? Good transportation systems allow LARGE industrial growth which pays taxes which pay for the roads. Is there ONE non-communist belief you have?
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without >ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 03:43:12 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 15:54:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >wrote:
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..." >>>><https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
Huh? Where do I find those future bicycle repair statistics?
Follow the link I provided. If anything, there's too much information
and detail. In this case, there's nothing involving FUTURE bicycle
repair statistics. There's only present and past statistics. See: <https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
The number of bicycle repairers in California
Detailed data title: BLS estimate of bicycle repairers in California
Source: Bureau of Larbor Statistics
Which points to:
"Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics" <https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm>
Which points to the California statistics at: <https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm>
Which shows the California "bicycle repairers" on line 49-3091 at: <https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes493091.htm>
as 2,800 as of May 2023 from the US map. To obtain the other years employment, follow the links for those years and build a table.
You almost had me there. I think you didn't say what you meant to say,
but if I understand what you meant to say, I agree, I think...
No sympathy. If I can navigate my way through the Burro of Laborious Statistics, you can also do the same. I assure you that statistical
research is surviveable.
The first requirement is to establish that the two events are related
in any way.
Nope. The LAST requirement is to determine if the numbers line up to
produce some form of correlation, which they do. Then, you figure out
how well they correlate (r=0.964). However, even if they correlate perfectly, you cannot claim causality.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding >>glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered >>gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults: >><https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists> >><https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids >>interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
Cool dude. Good stuff. No, really good stuff. I'm going to watch some
more.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
Are some old ?bike friendly? steps etc with those in the vague area, definitely something that requires someone to either have nice light bike
or be fairly large and strong!
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/zuNZrLTTY4Pd6XY48> is okay in a doable way on the Gravel bike, MTB tyres are too fat! And utility bikes are bit of pig to manoeuvre up similar setups definitely subpar infrastructure!
On Sat Jan 11 19:53:52 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/11/2025 5:07 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals, long ago were cast aside?
Wait - whose morals are you praising?
Why your favorite - George Soros of course.
On 1/11/2025 1:16 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:I was on a statewide committee in the early 1990s rating grant
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it?s what London and other cities did in the 50?s with the pedways ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used, but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no longer accessible.
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike
safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also >>> plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or
train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up
30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in >>> the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
applications for things like pedestrian and bike facilities. It was interesting to watch some of the politics at work - in particular, some "skyways" in a big city that got approval because the governor really,
really wanted them.
But AFAIK none were ever built.
On 1/12/2025 1:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it?s what London and other cities did in the 50?s with the pedways >> ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used,
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike >>>> safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also
plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with >>>> motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide >>>> enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or
train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up >>>> 30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in
the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the
Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no
longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people
didn?t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
Roger Merriman
Minneapolis system seems to work.
https://skywayaccess.com/
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Yes it's interesting but every system has its own features
and foibles:
https://accesspress.org/more-must-be-done-to-make-skyways-safer-accessible-to-all/
https://www.fox9.com/news/police-increase-patrols-in-south-minneapolis-after-17-muggings-in-1-week
https://www.businessnorth.com/daily_briefing/in-wake-of-skywalk-assault-city-officials-address-safety/article_eb1d5fa0-e7c4-11ee-96f5-cf1bac781de5.html
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/12/2025 1:16 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/11/2025 4:12 AM, wayne wrote:Indeed it?s what London and other cities did in the 50?s with the pedways >>> ie walkways in the sky, it failed totally! Though are some left being used,
Sweden gets positive marks for passenger rail and pedestrian or bike >>>>> safety. Sweden has trains that serve popular busy areas. Japan also
plans well in this way.
Sweden smartly engineers pedestrians and cyclists out of contention with
motor vehicles for the most part. Instead of traffic impeding
crosswalks, they have paths that cross under or over roads that are wide
enough for walkers and cyclists. In the case of extremely wide roads or
train tracks, they have bridges, or bridges with elevators that go up >>>>> 30-40 feet to an enclosed walkway over the objects. They are heated in
the winter time too.
???
We were in Stockholm around 2010. I saw none of that. I'm also not
seeing that now in Google Street View.
Got examples?
but most are urban curiosities. You can see some buildings from the
Embankment with the disconnected walkway tunnel though the building, no >>> longer accessible.
Unsurprisingly much like the big tower blocks with also walkways people >>> didn?t behave as the planners expected/hoped.
Roger Merriman
Minneapolis system seems to work.
https://skywayaccess.com/
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Yes it's interesting but every system has its own features
and foibles:
https://accesspress.org/more-must-be-done-to-make-skyways-safer-accessible-to-all/
https://www.fox9.com/news/police-increase-patrols-in-south-minneapolis-after-17-muggings-in-1-week
https://www.businessnorth.com/daily_briefing/in-wake-of-skywalk-assault-city-officials-address-safety/article_eb1d5fa0-e7c4-11ee-96f5-cf1bac781de5.html
Which is broadly one of the problems London pedways apparently had, and particularly the raised walkways or subways around estates or town centre
ie they feel iffy!
On Fri Jan 17 07:33:46 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 03:43:12 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 15:54:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..."
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
Huh? Where do I find those future bicycle repair statistics?
Follow the link I provided. If anything, there's too much information
and detail. In this case, there's nothing involving FUTURE bicycle
repair statistics. There's only present and past statistics. See:
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
The number of bicycle repairers in California
Detailed data title: BLS estimate of bicycle repairers in California
Source: Bureau of Larbor Statistics
Which points to:
"Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics"
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm>
Which points to the California statistics at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm>
Which shows the California "bicycle repairers" on line 49-3091 at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes493091.htm>
as 2,800 as of May 2023 from the US map. To obtain the other years
employment, follow the links for those years and build a table.
You almost had me there. I think you didn't say what you meant to say,
but if I understand what you meant to say, I agree, I think...
No sympathy. If I can navigate my way through the Burro of Laborious
Statistics, you can also do the same. I assure you that statistical
research is surviveable.
The first requirement is to establish that the two events are related
in any way.
Nope. The LAST requirement is to determine if the numbers line up to
produce some form of correlation, which they do. Then, you figure out
how well they correlate (r=0.964). However, even if they correlate
perfectly, you cannot claim causality.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding
glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered
gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults:
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists>
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids
interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
Cool dude. Good stuff. No, really good stuff. I'm going to watch some
more.
Every posting you demonstrate why your entire life has been outside of the mainstream. You have never done anything yourself but you absolutely love giving references and advice to other which you haven't the slightest idea which is true or not.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:23:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 14:46:25 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/12/2025 11:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Modern (surviving) rail systems are very different
now and passenger rail is mostly dead except for publicly subsidized
systems as they are not, and cannot be, profitable today.
Publicly subsidized highways can't be profitable either.
True. If it's subsidized it's not profitable.
Inversily, if it's profitable there is no reason to subsidize
it.
[]'s
Frank, when you don't know anything why do you comment? Good transportation systems allow LARGE industrial growth which pays taxes which pay for the roads. Is there ONE non-communist belief you have?
(Brain-fart ignored)
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the >>>>> Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals, >>>> long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known.
Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Try searching for this "musk insider trading felony"
HTH
[]'s
On 1/11/2025 4:18 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:route to Seattle. That was MUCH more satisfying than getting on and off of a commrecial airline which at the time was DC5's or Constellations. I would gladly take that anytime. But all my Seattle side of the family are long gone and so are my Air Force
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 21:52:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
There used top be the Shasta Dayolight that went from Oakland I believe to Seattle. That was a very profitable Northern Pacific route. You could sit in the lounge car which had a raised plastic top with totaol visibility through the heavily forested
My wife convonced me once to take an ocean cruise. The room was nice,
the food was great, and I felt like I was locked up in a cage.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
You're a better man than I.
Even at girlfriend's request, I would have to decline.
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley-extension-funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating expenses
are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
On Fri Jan 17 07:33:46 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 03:43:12 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 15:54:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..."
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
Huh? Where do I find those future bicycle repair statistics?
Follow the link I provided. If anything, there's too much information
and detail. In this case, there's nothing involving FUTURE bicycle
repair statistics. There's only present and past statistics. See:
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
The number of bicycle repairers in California
Detailed data title: BLS estimate of bicycle repairers in California
Source: Bureau of Larbor Statistics
Which points to:
"Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics"
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm>
Which points to the California statistics at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm>
Which shows the California "bicycle repairers" on line 49-3091 at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes493091.htm>
as 2,800 as of May 2023 from the US map. To obtain the other years
employment, follow the links for those years and build a table.
You almost had me there. I think you didn't say what you meant to say,
but if I understand what you meant to say, I agree, I think...
No sympathy. If I can navigate my way through the Burro of Laborious
Statistics, you can also do the same. I assure you that statistical
research is surviveable.
The first requirement is to establish that the two events are related
in any way.
Nope. The LAST requirement is to determine if the numbers line up to
produce some form of correlation, which they do. Then, you figure out
how well they correlate (r=0.964). However, even if they correlate
perfectly, you cannot claim causality.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding
glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered
gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults:
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists>
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids
interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
Cool dude. Good stuff. No, really good stuff. I'm going to watch some
more.
Every posting you demonstrate why your entire life has been outside of the mainstream.
You have never done anything yourself but you absolutely love giving references and advice to other which you haven't the slightest idea which is true or not.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:20:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jan 17 07:33:46 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 03:43:12 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 15:54:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..."
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
Huh? Where do I find those future bicycle repair statistics?
Follow the link I provided. If anything, there's too much information
and detail. In this case, there's nothing involving FUTURE bicycle
repair statistics. There's only present and past statistics. See:
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
The number of bicycle repairers in California
Detailed data title: BLS estimate of bicycle repairers in California
Source: Bureau of Larbor Statistics
Which points to:
"Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics"
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm>
Which points to the California statistics at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm>
Which shows the California "bicycle repairers" on line 49-3091 at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes493091.htm>
as 2,800 as of May 2023 from the US map. To obtain the other years
employment, follow the links for those years and build a table.
You almost had me there. I think you didn't say what you meant to say,
but if I understand what you meant to say, I agree, I think...
No sympathy. If I can navigate my way through the Burro of Laborious
Statistics, you can also do the same. I assure you that statistical
research is surviveable.
The first requirement is to establish that the two events are related
in any way.
Nope. The LAST requirement is to determine if the numbers line up to
produce some form of correlation, which they do. Then, you figure out
how well they correlate (r=0.964). However, even if they correlate
perfectly, you cannot claim causality.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding >> >>glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered >> >>gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults:
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists>
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids
interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
Cool dude. Good stuff. No, really good stuff. I'm going to watch some
more.
Every posting you demonstrate why your entire life has been outside of the mainstream. You have never done anything yourself but you absolutely love giving references and advice to other which you haven't the slightest idea which is true or not.
I don't give references.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:20:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jan 17 07:33:46 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 03:43:12 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 15:54:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
"The number of bicycle repairers in California correlates with..."
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/variable?id=5582>
Scroll down the list for various correlations.
Huh? Where do I find those future bicycle repair statistics?
Follow the link I provided. If anything, there's too much information
and detail. In this case, there's nothing involving FUTURE bicycle
repair statistics. There's only present and past statistics. See:
<https://tylervigen.com/spurious/correlation/7307_the-number-of-bicycle-repairers-in-california_correlates-with_the-average-number-of-likes-on-mark-rober-youtube-videos>
The number of bicycle repairers in California
Detailed data title: BLS estimate of bicycle repairers in California
Source: Bureau of Larbor Statistics
Which points to:
"Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics"
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm>
Which points to the California statistics at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ca.htm>
Which shows the California "bicycle repairers" on line 49-3091 at:
<https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes493091.htm>
as 2,800 as of May 2023 from the US map. To obtain the other years
employment, follow the links for those years and build a table.
You almost had me there. I think you didn't say what you meant to say,
but if I understand what you meant to say, I agree, I think...
No sympathy. If I can navigate my way through the Burro of Laborious
Statistics, you can also do the same. I assure you that statistical
research is surviveable.
The first requirement is to establish that the two events are related
in any way.
Nope. The LAST requirement is to determine if the numbers line up to
produce some form of correlation, which they do. Then, you figure out
how well they correlate (r=0.964). However, even if they correlate
perfectly, you cannot claim causality.
Mark Rober's videos on building squirrel proof bird feeders, exploding >> >>glitter bombs to discourage porch pirates, and various over-engineered >> >>gadgets are intended for kids, but are equally interesting to adults:
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/playlists>
<https://www.youtube.com/@MarkRober/videos>
He's one of the few adults that have the "knack" for getting kids
interested in engineering.
<https://www.crunchlabs.com>
Cool dude. Good stuff. No, really good stuff. I'm going to watch some
more.
Every posting you demonstrate why your entire life has been outside of the mainstream.
Why would I want my life to follow the mainstream herd? If following
the mainstream leads to success, I will follow. If following whatever
is considered fashionable, I don't follow it. Again, why would I want
to follow whatever you consider to be the mainstream?
You have never done anything yourself but you absolutely love giving references and advice to other which you haven't the slightest idea which is true or not.
Nice comma splice. I take it that you don't enjoy giving references (commonly known as links and URL's. Please don't complain about
someone not knowing whether something is true or not. You track
record in RBT for distributing lies, distortions, fake news, and
debunked amazing facts is legendary. Why do you ascribe to me
attributes that best describe your methods? Do you believe that will
make you immune to be accused of the same deficiencies? Are you
attempting to win the endlessly repetitious broken record award?
Incidentally, I noticed that when you started posting 40 articles per
day, participation by others in RBT decreased. When that failed to
deflect attention in your direction, you disappeared for a few days
and then reappeared with only a few postings per day. During the days
you were absent, participation increased dramatically. Are you
bothered by people who want to discuss things about which you know
zilch?
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley-
extension-funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of
operating expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more
than most passenger rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680
operating expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the >> >> Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known.
Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
George Soros is as bad as Bezos, Musk, Zukerberg etc. They
have no morals at all.
Only a fool thinks a billionaire is a socialist that wants to
share his fortune with the needy.
If Soros dies and leaves his entire fortune to say, US
Government Cancer Research I'll admit I was wrong.
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley-
extension-funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of
operating expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more
than most passenger rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680
operating expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most
government accounting (which practices would land me in
prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its
original Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths
were supposed to go away. Never happened because it's a
slush fund for politicians and the civil service.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere
you go and depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax
doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road
maintenance expense, as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the
insider beneficiaries just fine.
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation> >>>>>>>>
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/ >>>>>>
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in
cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >>>>> were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't >>>>> seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these >>>>> days. I'd prefer a choice.
have for the same reasons.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries >>> seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little
sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it
will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Considering that all of your towns were built by rail would seem that the >> train is very American! That there has been a move to Car centric culture >> for last 70 something years doesn t change that nor mean it couldn t change
back, as ever these aren t fixed.
Roger Merriman
People used to ride horses and buggies for transporation, too. As for
me, I can tolerate being confined for a few short hours to an
uncomfortable seat amongst a couple hundred other uncomfortable
passengers on an airplane, but not locked up for a couple of days on a train.
Plains are much more cramped and generally people in your space than trains certainly intercity ones, plus one can wander to the buffet bar and so on.
A proper highspeed train of which America seems to have a massive 49.9 of line that can handle the only just classified as Highspeed 150mph, the
Amtrak trains seem to average essentially fright speeds 50/60mph which in
the right situation is fine,.
I?ve taken the Caledonian sleeper to Fort William a few times, it?s around that speeds but as you board the train in the Evening have a room and bed/s and it arrives by the morning that works but even within UK which is quite
a bit smaller having intercity trains run so slow and uk Intercity trains aren?t highspeed but they are double the speed I think they date from the 1970?s or thereabouts.
I don?t use intercity trains much as well while I live in a City I?m a hour or so away from the intercity trains, at least ones I do use, and my family/friends don?t live in cities so ends up with at least 2 trains to
and from the main line station plus probably a taxi or getting collected by them.
A proper highspeed train absolutely could do intercity traffic and be reasonable competitive vs air travel, lot less faff ie avoid airports!
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the >> >> >> Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals, >> >> >long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known.
Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
On Fri Jan 17 18:40:17 2025 Shadow wrote:
George Soros is as bad as Bezos, Musk, Zukerberg etc. They
have no morals at all.
Only a fool thinks a billionaire is a socialist that wants to
share his fortune with the needy.
If Soros dies and leaves his entire fortune to say, US
Government Cancer Research I'll admit I was wrong.
So you don't know anything about people and define good from evil by the amount of money they give away. Holding out your hand and being ignored?
And companies in Arizona and Texas are only interested in what I can do and not whether I have a degree or not.
Plus I can tell the good guys from the bad.
I forgot rule one just one time and haven't unlearned that lesson. You never hit anyone with your fist unless there's no other way. Kicking works better though it is easier to aim your elbows.
On Thu Jan 16 14:09:37 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A
REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
Are some old ?bike friendly? steps etc with those in the vague area,
definitely something that requires someone to either have nice light bike
or be fairly large and strong!
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/zuNZrLTTY4Pd6XY48> is okay in a doable way on the >> Gravel bike, MTB tyres are too fat! And utility bikes are bit of pig to
manoeuvre up similar setups definitely subpar infrastructure!
Roger, poor Jeff knows nothing first person and you cannot trust one word he writes.
Remember that he will argue at the drop of a hat that I was lying and that there was no mud in Cull Canyon last winter.
That the mud didn't wash down and fill the reservoir behind the dam and then bypass the entire reservoir and cut a new channel down to the overflow bypass. As PROOF he showed a picture of the swimming area that you could SEE was filling with mud itself.
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:54:37 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Plus I can tell the good guys from the bad.
The bad guys always wear black while the good guys wear white. Got
it.
I forgot rule one just one time and haven't unlearned that lesson. You never hit anyone with your fist unless there's no other way. Kicking works better though it is easier to aim your elbows.
Wrong rule. The real rule one is to only hit soft body parts with
your fist. The hard body parts require a heavy blunt object or a
weapon.
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley-
extension- funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of
operating expenses (that's negative ROI on capital),
more than most passenger rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680
operating expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a
figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most
government accounting (which practices would land me in
prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its
original Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths
were supposed to go away. Never happened because it's a
slush fund for politicians and the civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years
ago. People blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere
you go and depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road
tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-
states-divert- away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road
maintenance expense, as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-
and-user-fees- pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the
insider beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize
road transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we
should not subsidize rail transportation. Asking fares to
cover all expenses skips over that point.
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger
rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the
civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-
pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road >transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize
rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >point.
On Sun Jan 12 10:00:23 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 18:16:00 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:Plains are much more cramped and generally people in your space than trains >> certainly intercity ones, plus one can wander to the buffet bar and so on. >>
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 11 Jan 2025 08:01:36 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote: >>>>>
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/10/2025 4:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:It appears to be a political choice and and almost a worse service that you
On 1/10/2025 3:31 PM, pothead wrote:
On 2025-01-10, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 1/9/2025 9:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:I have no opinion but there are societal differences:
I'm wondering how other countries have done this. We rode the TGV in >>>>>>>>>> France. It was very impressive. I've talked to folks who used Japan's
... the other high speed rail projects didn't do much
better on controlling planning, construction and maintenance costs: >>>>>>>>>>>
"Case Study V: California High-Speed Rail"
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/oertgreentransport/chapter/chapter-7- >>>>>>>>>>> case-study-v-california-high-speed-rail/>
<https://uta.pressbooks.pub/app/uploads/sites/131/2022/09/Tbl3- >>>>>>>>>>> e1664395162274.png>
I haven't checked, but methinks that a large percentage of the time >>>>>>>>>>> and money are being used to fund endless litigation:
"High Speed Rail Litigation"
<https://www.planetizen.com/tag/high-speed-rail-litigation> >>>>>>>>>>
high speed rail and were very impressed.
I've rode the TGV and it was quite impressive. The rail system in Europe
is so far superior to the antiquated crap we have here in US it's not >>>>>>>>> even
in the same league.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/vehicles-per-capita-by-country/ >>>>>>>>
which present a chicken-egg problem.
Interesting data. I see that France is really not far behind the U.S. in
cars-per-capita. I had wondered if they had far lower car ownership and >>>>>>> were thus more amenable to tax dollars going to rail, but that doesn't >>>>>>> seem to be the case.
Anyway, other countries are doing rail pretty well. It's sort of a shame
we can't. I'm pretty much forced to do a lot of freeway driving these >>>>>>> days. I'd prefer a choice.
have for the same reasons.
Roger Merriman
The desire some people in the USA have to be more like other countries >>>>> seems to have taken a political hit. There seems to still be a little >>>>> sense of individualism left in our culture, but I wonder how long it >>>>> will last.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Considering that all of your towns were built by rail would seem that the >>>> train is very American! That there has been a move to Car centric culture >>>> for last 70 something years doesnt change that nor mean it couldnt change >>>> back, as ever these arent fixed.
Roger Merriman
People used to ride horses and buggies for transporation, too. As for
me, I can tolerate being confined for a few short hours to an
uncomfortable seat amongst a couple hundred other uncomfortable
passengers on an airplane, but not locked up for a couple of days on a
train.
A proper highspeed train of which America seems to have a massive 49.9 of
line that can handle the only just classified as Highspeed 150mph, the
Amtrak trains seem to average essentially fright speeds 50/60mph which in
the right situation is fine,.
I?ve taken the Caledonian sleeper to Fort William a few times, it?s around >> that speeds but as you board the train in the Evening have a room and bed/s >> and it arrives by the morning that works but even within UK which is quite >> a bit smaller having intercity trains run so slow and uk Intercity trains
aren?t highspeed but they are double the speed I think they date from the
1970?s or thereabouts.
I don?t use intercity trains much as well while I live in a City I?m a hour >> or so away from the intercity trains, at least ones I do use, and my
family/friends don?t live in cities so ends up with at least 2 trains to
and from the main line station plus probably a taxi or getting collected by >> them.
A proper highspeed train absolutely could do intercity traffic and be
reasonable competitive vs air travel, lot less faff ie avoid airports!
I suspect that the reason that they are trying to go to faster and faster aircraft isn't to get there faster but to get somewhere less
uncomfortable. Even first class is uncomfortable. I think the last flight
I went on I was wearing my VFW pin and they put me at the emergency exit
door so that I had some leg room.
On 1/17/2025 6:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:54:37 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>+1
wrote:
Plus I can tell the good guys from the bad.
The bad guys always wear black while the good guys wear white. Got
it.
I forgot rule one just one time and haven't unlearned that lesson. You never hit anyone with your fist unless there's no other way. Kicking works better though it is easier to aim your elbows.
Wrong rule. The real rule one is to only hit soft body parts with
your fist. The hard body parts require a heavy blunt object or a
weapon.
I know that from having suffered (not from punching a human)
one of these:
https://comportho.com/hand/boxers-fracture/
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger
rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the
civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-
pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road >>transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I accomplished jobs that you can't even dream of.
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road >>>transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast >Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph >otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:54:37 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Plus I can tell the good guys from the bad.
The bad guys always wear black while the good guys wear white. Got
it.
I forgot rule one just one time and haven't unlearned that lesson. You never hit anyone with your fist unless there's no other way. Kicking works better though it is easier to aim your elbows.
Wrong rule. The real rule one is to only hit soft body parts with
your fist. The hard body parts require a heavy blunt object or a
weapon.
On 1/18/2025 6:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jan 17 21:32:52 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 6:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I accomplished jobs that you can't even dream of. But your pal Obama convinced the entire left wing that you don't know anything unless you've been to college.
Gosh, I'd forgotten that before Obama you didn't need a college degree
to qualify for the Professional Engineer's license, or permission to
take the qualifying exams. I'd also forgotten that you could get almost
any job with no college degree. I'd forgotten that everyone from
physicians to rocket scientists to researchers in mathematics, to
biologists and hydrologists were all people who just "read out
libraries" on their own.
Thanks for the reminder! :-)
Before Obama a college degree meant that you probnably knew at least a minimal amount. After Obama colleges became nothing more than degree mills pumping out the sort of people you taught.
Wow, you have such detailed knowledge! It's amazing, considering you
never even complete high school, and spent almost zero time in college.
On Fri Jan 17 16:56:11 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:54:37 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Plus I can tell the good guys from the bad.
The bad guys always wear black while the good guys wear white. Got
it.
I forgot rule one just one time and haven't unlearned that lesson. You never hit anyone with your fist unless there's no other way. Kicking works better though it is easier to aim your elbows.
Wrong rule. The real rule one is to only hit soft body parts with
your fist. The hard body parts require a heavy blunt object or a
weapon.
Liebermann, you are a sniveling little coward that would run if your heart wouldn't give out just thinking about it.
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >> way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines.
Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >>> way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >>> Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 23:21:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jan 17 16:56:11 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:54:37 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Plus I can tell the good guys from the bad.
The bad guys always wear black while the good guys wear white. Got
it.
I forgot rule one just one time and haven't unlearned that lesson. You never hit anyone with your fist unless there's no other way. Kicking works better though it is easier to aim your elbows.
Wrong rule. The real rule one is to only hit soft body parts with
your fist. The hard body parts require a heavy blunt object or a
weapon.
Liebermann, you are a sniveling little coward that would run if your heart wouldn't give out just thinking about it.
Thinking about what? I have no heart. It was surgically bypassed in
2001. Also, I no longer run. For various medical reasons, I avoid
high impact exercises and activities.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:Mallard has gone faster in 1938 hit 126 and held 126mph on a down hill section, though certainly in uk pace has slowed somewhat with the Intercity trains holding 100mph + with top speeds of 125mph limited by the track/signalling systems and so on, with the intercity 125 from the 70’s ie speeds haven’t changed in 50 something years, some of the trains units even then could go faster if the line was upgraded.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating >>>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating >>>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste). >>>>>>>
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast >>>> Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph >>>> otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >>>> way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >>>> Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
This said even at 100mph or so average that’s decently quick.
Roger Merriman
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 22:53:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started >> >> >with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals, >> >> >long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with >> >> slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other >> >> crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass. >> >> So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known. >>
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
I told you to Google it. Even gave you the keywords.
Maybe "Google isn't working for you" too....
[]'s
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:36:56 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 16 14:09:37 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:33:59 -0500, Radey Shouman
<shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
There are some of those in the US as well. Here's a story on the
history of an ordinarily mysterious one, which I found entertaining:
https://tylervigen.com/the-mystery-of-the-bloomfield-bridge
Thanks. Interesting detective story. It took me over and hour to
read because the phone kept ringing.
There's also a bicycle related connection that starts at "IS IT A
REGULATION?" The stairs were designed to have ramps that are the
width of bicycle tires to make it easier to push bicycles up the
stairs. Click on the tiny "note" for details.
Are some old ?bike friendly? steps etc with those in the vague area,
definitely something that requires someone to either have nice light bike >> or be fairly large and strong!
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/zuNZrLTTY4Pd6XY48> is okay in a doable way on the >> Gravel bike, MTB tyres are too fat! And utility bikes are bit of pig to
manoeuvre up similar setups definitely subpar infrastructure!
GA5E54zLSIBnbYs1S000IJOz_SjL8KGX2-LfuhmivQ&oe=6790BA94>Roger, poor Jeff knows nothing first person and you cannot trust one word he writes.
I agree. You should not trust anything I say without corroboration or verification:
"Trust, but verify".
Unsubstantiated claims by Tom (and others) also require verification.
Remember that he will argue at the drop of a hat that I was lying and that there was no mud in Cull Canyon last winter.
I've asked you multiple times for a photo of the mud. You've
supposedly ridden you bicycle past that point numerous times without
so much as a photo. This is the only photo you've posted. I can see
the sign, but where is the mud? Do you really ride in the mud or do
you ride on the paved bicycle path? <https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/415304608_1063064824838266_5350277328477480712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=X6pOWO4OeZYQ7kNvgGoLqm9&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&_nc_gid=Afbld3wEyJEdcX1OLMWH2bT&oh=00_AYB_
itself.That the mud didn't wash down and fill the reservoir behind the dam and then bypass the entire reservoir and cut a new channel down to the overflow bypass. As PROOF he showed a picture of the swimming area that you could SEE was filling with mud
I posted reservoir photo to point out that the reservoir wasn't very
deep. I saw nothing that looked like a bypass or "deep mud" (except
the sign).
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >>> way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >>> Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 08:48:53 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating >>>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating >>>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste). >>>>>>>
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast >>>> Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph >>>> otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >>>> way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >>>> Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
We had them in the USA, too. Milwaukee road Hiawatha, for one.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/19/2025 9:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:Mallard has gone faster in 1938 hit 126 and held 126mph on a down hill
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating >>>>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating >>>>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government >>>>>>>> accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste). >>>>>>>>
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original >>>>>>>> Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider >>>>>>>> beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize
rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or >>>>>> three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to >>>>>> choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast >>>>> Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph >>>>> otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long
way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >>>>> Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
section, though certainly in uk pace has slowed somewhat with the Intercity >> trains holding 100mph + with top speeds of 125mph limited by the
track/signalling systems and so on, with the intercity 125 from the 70’s ie
speeds haven’t changed in 50 something years, some of the trains units even
then could go faster if the line was upgraded.
This said even at 100mph or so average that’s decently quick.
Roger Merriman
As I understand it (I'm no expert) standard track gauges &
train height, aerodynamics, normal track anomalies etc make
stability, safety etc difficult in the 100+ area.
It's not so much about power and train weight; that part we
can do reliably.
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 21:59:10 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/18/2025 6:15 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jan 17 21:32:52 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 6:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I accomplished jobs that you can't even dream of. But your pal Obama convinced the entire left wing that you don't know anything unless you've been to college.
Gosh, I'd forgotten that before Obama you didn't need a college degree >>> to qualify for the Professional Engineer's license, or permission to
take the qualifying exams. I'd also forgotten that you could get almost >>> any job with no college degree. I'd forgotten that everyone from
physicians to rocket scientists to researchers in mathematics, to
biologists and hydrologists were all people who just "read out
libraries" on their own.
Thanks for the reminder! :-)
Before Obama a college degree meant that you probnably knew at least a minimal amount. After Obama colleges became nothing more than degree mills pumping out the sort of people you taught.
Wow, you have such detailed knowledge! It's amazing, considering you
never even complete high school, and spent almost zero time in college.
09/18/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/H5UQas_9HLA/m/p9rFmANKBgAJ> "I dropped out of the city college because it was adding absolutely
nothing to my career goals and wasn't that more important? Having a
piece of paper saying that I could read and write would have allowed
me to assume a VP position in my company. But I was perfectly
satisfied being an engineer and project leader."
08/28/2023 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/UlnAtHIZnTg/m/nFzXScJWAQAJ> "I just pulled out a ring binder and there was my degree from the
College of Marin for ship's navigation. I took that course because I
was on yacht crews racing up and down the California coast.
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast
Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90 mph
otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go a long >>> way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some lines. >>> Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger
rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the
civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-
pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize
rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are "affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail traffic is capable of >gaining a significant market share of journeys between "cities with an >airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city centers pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services) between those cities:
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich completely killed
the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the airline market Munich - >Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4 hours journey time >between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and Ruhr - Munich) by >investing in 180 mph lines.
Rolf
On 1/19/2025 9:29 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/18/2025 4:49 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:Mallard has gone faster in 1938 hit 126 and held 126mph on a down hill
On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:24:12 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:
On 2025-01-18, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating >>>>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most
passenger
rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating >>>>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government >>>>>>>> accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste). >>>>>>>>
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original >>>>>>>> Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed >>>>>>>> to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians >>>>>>>> and the
civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. >>>>>>> People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you >>>>>>>> go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to >>>>>>>> roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states- >>>>>>>> divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance >>>>>>>> expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-
user-fees-
pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider >>>>>>>> beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not
subsidize
rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips
over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger
rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or >>>>>> three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to >>>>>> choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I do use rail for long distance travel. eg:CA to WA state on the Coast >>>>> Starlight.
If we could manage to attain the 60mph through town and at least 90
mph
otherwise that was common when I visited GB in the 70's it would go
a long
way to getting more people on board.
In the days of steam I understand 100mph was not uncommon on some
lines.
Sigh.
Frustrated rail fan
pH in Aptos
There's not enough people like you.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
 From the Steam Age:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xa6Cr39LZU
section, though certainly in uk pace has slowed somewhat with the
Intercity
trains holding 100mph + with top speeds of 125mph limited by the
track/signalling systems and so on, with the intercity 125 from the
70’s ie
speeds haven’t changed in 50 something years, some of the trains units
even
then could go faster if the line was upgraded.
This said even at 100mph or so average that’s decently quick.
As I understand it (I'm no expert) standard track gauges & train height, aerodynamics, normal track anomalies etc make stability, safety etc
difficult in the 100+ area.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only >>>>>>>> targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the >>>>>>>> Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started >>>>>>> with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals, >>>>>>> long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other >>>>>> crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL. >>>>>> Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass. >>>>>> So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth >>>>>> horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known. >>>>
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is >>>> even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew >members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:56:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are "affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail traffic is capable of
gaining a significant market share of journeys between "cities with an
airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city centers pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services) between those cities:
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich completely killed
the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the airline market Munich -
Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4 hours journey time
between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and Ruhr - Munich) by
investing in 180 mph lines.
I never thought of it that way, but yes, four hours is about how long
I'd care to be locked up. I have taken air flights for longer, but
only because auto travel wasn't an option.
So lets see, 180MPH for four hours will get me about 720 miles if it
was a direct route. That wouldn't get my wife and me to any of our out
of state relatives. I suspect that there'd be stops along the way that
would make it take longer, too.
Am 20.01.2025 um 12:57 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:56:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>>>>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are "affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail traffic is capable of
gaining a significant market share of journeys between "cities with an
airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city centers pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services) between those cities:
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich completely killed
the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the airline market Munich - >>> Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4 hours journey time
between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and Ruhr - Munich) by >>> investing in 180 mph lines.
I never thought of it that way, but yes, four hours is about how long
I'd care to be locked up. I have taken air flights for longer, but
only because auto travel wasn't an option.
So lets see, 180MPH for four hours will get me about 720 miles if it
was a direct route. That wouldn't get my wife and me to any of our out
of state relatives. I suspect that there'd be stops along the way that
would make it take longer, too.
Correct. Hamburg - Munich is 500 miles and not technically but
financially out of reach of those magic 4 hours (currently it's 5:30
with two major investments planned to bring it to 4:30 by 2070).
In Germany (like the east-coast corridor), we aim for one major stop per
hour to serve intermediate locations - which is why speeds above 160 mph
are rarely value-for-money; in France (larger and less dense) they go 3
or 4 hours non-stop at 200 mph to compete point-to-point with the plane.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:20:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 20.01.2025 um 12:57 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:56:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension- >>>>>>>>> funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating >>>>>>>>> expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>>>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating >>>>>>>> expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste). >>>>>>>
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go >>>>>>> away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>>>>>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People >>>>>> blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and >>>>>>> depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads: >>>>>>>
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert- >>>>>>> away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>>>>>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >>>>>> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that >>>>>> point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail >>>>> even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are "affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail traffic is capable of >>>> gaining a significant market share of journeys between "cities with an >>>> airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city centers pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services) between those cities: >>>>
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich completely killed >>>> the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the airline market Munich - >>>> Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4 hours journey time >>>> between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and Ruhr - Munich) by >>>> investing in 180 mph lines.
I never thought of it that way, but yes, four hours is about how long
I'd care to be locked up. I have taken air flights for longer, but
only because auto travel wasn't an option.
So lets see, 180MPH for four hours will get me about 720 miles if it
was a direct route. That wouldn't get my wife and me to any of our out
of state relatives. I suspect that there'd be stops along the way that
would make it take longer, too.
Correct. Hamburg - Munich is 500 miles and not technically but
financially out of reach of those magic 4 hours (currently it's 5:30
with two major investments planned to bring it to 4:30 by 2070).
In Germany (like the east-coast corridor), we aim for one major stop per
hour to serve intermediate locations - which is why speeds above 160 mph
are rarely value-for-money; in France (larger and less dense) they go 3
or 4 hours non-stop at 200 mph to compete point-to-point with the plane.
Seem to me that they should have a little drone car running out in
front of the train looking for a cow on the track or a hickup in the
steel.
Am 20.01.2025 um 12:57 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:56:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-
valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of
operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than
most passenger
rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680
operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most
government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison
post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its
original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were
supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for
politicians and the
civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few
years ago. People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different
everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax
doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-
money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road
maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-
taxes-and-user-fees-
pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits
the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to
subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we
should not subsidize
rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses
skips over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty
obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance
passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be
interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day,
but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge
is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are
"affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail traffic
is capable of
gaining a significant market share of journeys between
"cities with an
airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city centers
pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services) between
those cities:
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich
completely killed
the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the airline
market Munich -
Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4
hours journey time
between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and
Ruhr - Munich) by
investing in 180 mph lines.
I never thought of it that way, but yes, four hours is
about how long
I'd care to be locked up. I have taken air flights for
longer, but
only because auto travel wasn't an option.
So lets see, 180MPH for four hours will get me about 720
miles if it
was a direct route. That wouldn't get my wife and me to
any of our out
of state relatives. I suspect that there'd be stops along
the way that
would make it take longer, too.
Correct. Hamburg - Munich is 500 miles and not technically
but financially out of reach of those magic 4 hours
(currently it's 5:30 with two major investments planned to
bring it to 4:30 by 2070).
In Germany (like the east-coast corridor), we aim for one
major stop per hour to serve intermediate locations - which
is why speeds above 160 mph are rarely value-for-money; in
France (larger and less dense) they go 3 or 4 hours non-stop
at 200 mph to compete point-to-point with the plane.
Am 20.01.2025 um 13:56 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:20:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 20.01.2025 um 12:57 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:56:01 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-
valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22%
of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more
than most passenger
rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or
I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most
government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison
post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off
its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths
were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for
politicians and the
civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few
years ago. People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different
everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax
doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-
money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road
maintenance expense,
as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-
taxes-and-user-fees-
pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong,
depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits
the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to
subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we
should not subsidize
rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all
expenses skips over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty
obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long
distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be
interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a
day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor
charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are
"affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail
traffic is capable of
gaining a significant market share of journeys between
"cities with an
airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city
centers pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services)
between those cities:
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich
completely killed
the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the
airline market Munich -
Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4
hours journey time
between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and
Ruhr - Munich) by
investing in 180 mph lines.
I never thought of it that way, but yes, four hours is
about how long
I'd care to be locked up. I have taken air flights for
longer, but
only because auto travel wasn't an option.
So lets see, 180MPH for four hours will get me about 720
miles if it
was a direct route. That wouldn't get my wife and me to
any of our out
of state relatives. I suspect that there'd be stops
along the way that
would make it take longer, too.
Correct. Hamburg - Munich is 500 miles and not
technically but
financially out of reach of those magic 4 hours
(currently it's 5:30
with two major investments planned to bring it to 4:30 by
2070).
In Germany (like the east-coast corridor), we aim for one
major stop per
hour to serve intermediate locations - which is why
speeds above 160 mph
are rarely value-for-money; in France (larger and less
dense) they go 3
or 4 hours non-stop at 200 mph to compete point-to-point
with the plane.
Seem to me that they should have a little drone car
running out in
front of the train looking for a cow on the track or a
hickup in the
steel.
Generally, high-speed tracks are fenced in to prevent damage
with cattle and have measuring equipment check the track
quality regularly.
The collision in Germany with a sheep at 210 km/h (130 mph)
inside a tunnel
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Eisenbahnunfall_im_Landr%C3%BCckentunnel>
was a lot less severe than the collision with a cow at 140
km/h (85 mph) in Scotland in a cutting <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polmont_rail_accident>
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley-extension-funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating expenses
are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Am 18.01.2025 um 10:19 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:27:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/17/2025 5:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/17/2025 4:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/17/2025 2:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
This line?
https://sfstandard.com/2024/08/02/bart-silicon-valley- extension-
funding/
Seems to be 'in progress' as of last summer.
For the whole system, fares cover a whopping 22% of operating
expenses (that's negative ROI on capital), more than most passenger >>>>> rail systems.
Hmm. I wonder what percentage of, say, I-880 or I-680 operating
expenses are paid for by fares. Anybody got a figure?
Impossible to know. Too convoluted, just like most government
accounting (which practices would land me in prison post haste).
Regarding tolls, I remember when Illinois paid off its original
Interstate bonds, at which point the toll booths were supposed to go
away. Never happened because it's a slush fund for politicians and the >>> civil service.
Same thing happened with the Ohio Turnpike just a few years ago. People
blamed the Republican-controlled legislature.
But if you meant the road tax, that's different everywhere you go and
depending on where you are 2% to 20% of road tax doesn't go to roads:
https://reason.org/policy-brief/how-much-gas-tax-money-states-divert-
away-from-roads/
And, in the other view, road taxes don't cover road maintenance expense, >>> as far as we know:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees- >>> pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending/
So every argument can be both right and wrong, depending.
Short answer: it's a mess and a muddle. Which suits the insider
beneficiaries just fine.
My overall point is, we've obviously decided to subsidize road
transportation. It's not immediately obvious why we should not subsidize >> rail transportation. Asking fares to cover all expenses skips over that
point.
We do subsidize passenger rail, and it seems pretty obvious that
people in the USA have not choosen to use long distance passenger rail
even when it is subsidized. There does seem to be interest in
intercity rail for trips that take less than half a day, but two or
three days vs 4 or 5 hours on plane for a lessor charge is easy to
choose even if the train ride has more legroom.
Sure. Given that air traffic exists and tickets are "affordable", 4
hours of journey time are the maximum where rail traffic is capable of gaining a significant market share of journeys between "cities with an airport"; 3 hours of journey time between 2 city centers pretty much
kills the airline market (except feeder services) between those cities:
The high-speed rail line Berlin - Nuremberg - Munich completely killed
the air market Nuremberg - Berlin and halved the airline market Munich - Berlin when it opened in 2017.
Germany is just about small enough to have reached 4 hours journey time between most major cities (except Hamburg - Munich and Ruhr - Munich) by investing in 180 mph lines.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only >>>>>>> targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started >>>>>> with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals, >>>>>> long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with >>>>> slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other >>>>> crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL. >>>>> Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass. >>>>> So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth >>>>> horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known. >>>
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is >>> even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:52:51 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only >>>>>>>> targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started >>>>>>> with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with >>>>>> slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other >>>>>> crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL. >>>>>> Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass. >>>>>> So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth >>>>>> horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with >>>>>> mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all >>>>>> there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known. >>>>
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy >>>> cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is >>>> even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew >members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him.
Everyone who has a good job in a company with public stock has insider information. I bought a bunch of stock in the company I worked for and
ths, had inside information. I still have the stock and the
connections, my son works there now at a higher level than I was at. I
talked to him just yesterday and we talked about problems with the
cold weather. He's a bit concerned, but neither one of us is looking
to sell.
On Mon Jan 20 07:27:37 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:52:51 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with >> >>>>>> slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other >> >>>>>> crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL. >> >>>>>> Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth >> >>>>>> horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known.
Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is >> >>>> even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew
members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him.
Everyone who has a good job in a company with public stock has insider
information. I bought a bunch of stock in the company I worked for and
ths, had inside information. I still have the stock and the
connections, my son works there now at a higher level than I was at. I
talked to him just yesterday and we talked about problems with the
cold weather. He's a bit concerned, but neither one of us is looking
to sell.
Again, that is not insider trading. That is investing in a company you do or did work for. Would you call my company matching my stock options insider trading? That is nothing more than investing since your company could go bust and your investmentswould be worth nothing.
If I became aware of something that was going to change the value of
the stock and acted on it, it would be insider trading.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 13:47:39 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
<snip>
If I became aware of something that was going to change the value of
the stock and acted on it, it would be insider trading.
Exactly. Or if you had hundreds of thousands of followers and
announced that your factory was closing down (or predicted record
sales) when nothing was happening, the same.
"Men of honor" don't do insider trading.
Disonerable men make billions fooling their gullible followers
then buy the judges.
[]'s
On 1/20/2025 3:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
+1
"Men of honor" don't do insider trading.
https://conservancy.umn.edu/server/api/core/
bitstreams/6be96220-009b-47c7-abdb-34f645713a34/content
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/22/insider-trading-and-
congress-how- lawmakers-get-rich-from-stock-market.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/13/us/
politics/congress- stock-trading-investigation.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stocks-stock-act-
violations- lawmakers-finances-disclosure-2022-12?op=1
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/it-illegal-
lawmakers-trade- stocks-insider-info-they-learn-job-n1165156
Yeah, but: If we didn't read it on eX-Twitter or Fox, it's
fake news, right? ;-)
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:00:29 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jan 20 18:52:51 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only >>>>>>>>>> targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who started >>>>>>>>> with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with >>>>>>>> slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and other >>>>>>>> crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? LOL. >>>>>>>> Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in the ass. >>>>>>>> So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the fifth >>>>>>>> horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with >>>>>>>> mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all >>>>>>>> there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have known. >>>>>>
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy >>>>>> cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with that is >>>>>> even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew
members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him.
John, that isn't insider trading. Nancy Pelosi was pushing LAWS through Congress that allowed wild growth in specific companies that she bought into early.
Really? Tell us more... with perhaps a tiny bit of proof that you know
what you are talking about?
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the
air market completely.
On 1/20/2025 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:00:29 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jan 20 18:52:51 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
    LOL
    The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS. >>>>>>>>>>>     Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only >>>>>>>>>>> targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like >>>>>>>>>>> Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who >>>>>>>>>> started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this >>>>>>>>>> planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your >>>>>>>>>> morals,
long ago were cast aside?
    Who on Earth are you talking about?
    Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
    Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and >>>>>>>>> other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? >>>>>>>>> LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in >>>>>>>>> the ass.
    So .... who?
    []'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the >>>>>>>>> fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with >>>>>>>>> mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all >>>>>>>>> there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have >>>>>>>> known.
    Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using >>>>>>> knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general >>>>>>> public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy >>>>>>> cheap and sell high.
    To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with
that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
    All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
    My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and
insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew >>>> members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him.
John, that isn't insider trading. Nancy Pelosi was pushing LAWS
through Congress that allowed wild growth in specific companies that
she bought into early.
Really? Tell us more... with perhaps a tiny bit of proof that you know
what you are talking about?
The most egregious blatant case was the Pelosi Visa options trade. It
was well reported:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/nancy-pelosi-s- husband-dumped-thousands-of-visa-shares-worth-over-500k-just-2-months- before-the-doj-s-antitrust-lawsuit-and-it-s-reigniting-insider-trading- concerns/ar-AA1rDBsq
Am 20.01.2025 um 18:57 schrieb cyclintom:
On Mon Jan 20 11:34:29 2025 Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
    LOL
    The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is
#FAKE_NEWS.
    Possibly even more powerful than the other 4,
but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy
(Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about
na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull
men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous
since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
    Who on Earth are you talking about?
    Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind.
    Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which
was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider
trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid
fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit
them in the ass.
    So .... who?
    []'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they
welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask
someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The
prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I
should have known.
    Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is
using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that
the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the
stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
    To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make
money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
    All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of
reminding the people he conned.
    My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon
Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient
reason to
refrain from insider trading.
When you own a company, by definition you cannot perform
"insider trading".
Every "insider trading" involves you to partly own a company
at some point in time because insider trading is about
buying and selling shares.
When you sell shares in a company, by definition you do not
(completely) own it.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed
trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the
air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
On 1/20/2025 7:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2025 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:00:29 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jan 20 18:52:51 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
    LOL
    The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is
#FAKE_NEWS.
    Possibly even more powerful than the other
4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily
greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know
about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull
men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you
jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
    Who on Earth are you talking about?
    Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of
mind.
    Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune
which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with
insider trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid
fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it
bit them in the ass.
    So .... who?
    []'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they
welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs
(ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The
prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is.
I should have known.
    Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading
is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that
the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the
stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
    To produce "facts" notably on social media but
also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make
money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
    All judges have their price though. As Musk is
fond of
reminding the people he conned.
    My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between
Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a
sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back
when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number
of drilling crew
members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we
brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our
employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I
knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon
as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the
door to tell him.
John, that isn't insider trading. Nancy Pelosi was
pushing LAWS through Congress that allowed wild growth
in specific companies that she bought into early.
Really? Tell us more... with perhaps a tiny bit of proof
that you know
what you are talking about?
The most egregious blatant case was the Pelosi Visa
options trade. It was well reported:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/nancy-
pelosi-s- husband-dumped-thousands-of-visa-shares-worth-
over-500k-just-2-months- before-the-doj-s-antitrust-
lawsuit-and-it-s-reigniting-insider-trading- concerns/ar-
AA1rDBsq
Horseshit.
Selling stock two months before the DOJ opens an
investigation hardly rises to the level of "egregious and
blatent".
The most egregious and blatant cases were Burr and Loeffler
who made millions in trading after closed-sessions on the
pandemic.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped- millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing/
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/488576-tucker-carlson- calls-on-burr-to-resign-amid-reports-of-stock-selloff-due-to/
Feinstein was caught up in the scandal too.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/14/dianne-feinstein- husband-stock-trades-258693
Take off your partisan blinders, andrew.
On 1/21/2025 8:57 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 1/20/2025 7:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2025 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:00:29 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jan 20 18:52:51 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is
#FAKE_NEWS.
Possibly even more powerful than the other
4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily
greedy (Like Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know
about na man who started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull
men on this planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you
jealous since your morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of
mind.
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune
which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with
insider trading and other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid
fsks". Morals? LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it
bit them in the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they
welcome the fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs
(ask someone with
mental issues that believes in the bibel. The
prophecies are all
there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is.
I should have known.
Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading
is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that
the general
public does not have access to, to manipulate the
stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but
also in
newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make
money with that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is
fond of
reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between
Elon Musk and insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a
sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back
when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number
of drilling crew
members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we
brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our
employees heard
an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I
knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon
as his office
opened the next morning somebody was standing at the
door to tell him.
John, that isn't insider trading. Nancy Pelosi was
pushing LAWS through Congress that allowed wild growth
in specific companies that she bought into early.
Really? Tell us more... with perhaps a tiny bit of proof
that you know
what you are talking about?
The most egregious blatant case was the Pelosi Visa
options trade. It was well reported:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/nancy-
pelosi-s- husband-dumped-thousands-of-visa-shares-worth-
over-500k-just-2-months- before-the-doj-s-antitrust-
lawsuit-and-it-s-reigniting-insider-trading- concerns/ar-
AA1rDBsq
Horseshit.
Selling stock two months before the DOJ opens an
investigation hardly rises to the level of "egregious and
blatent".
The most egregious and blatant cases were Burr and Loeffler
who made millions in trading after closed-sessions on the
pandemic.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-
millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing/
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/488576-tucker-carlson-
calls-on-burr-to-resign-amid-reports-of-stock-selloff-due-to/
Feinstein was caught up in the scandal too.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/14/dianne-feinstein-
husband-stock-trades-258693
Take off your partisan blinders, andrew.
You are correct.
In my other reply, I noted this is pervasive across parties
and other divisions. Ranking 'worst' is maybe not helpful;
Congress are mostly self dealing cheats and liars who write
laws for other people but not themselves.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>>trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>>of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop >>>travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>>air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were >cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
--And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two >>wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland >>insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 20:20:27 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were
cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
And some "survived" the crash, and were arrested in Europe a
while later.
PS I don't think "Homeland Security" even existed before
Bush's coup. Were people searched when boarding planes before that? I
never was. Only after I landed, by customs. Even that was unusual.
[]'s
And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
On 1/21/2025 7:01 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
That's not right.
Here, the Stasi have infested the trains as well: >https://www.amtrak.com/tickets-id-safety-security
I do not go to airports, and even to pick up or drop off
someone; I remain in my car in the parking area.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:45:30 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
You are correct.
In my other reply, I noted this is pervasive across parties
and other divisions. Ranking 'worst' is maybe not helpful;
Congress are mostly self dealing cheats and liars who write
laws for other people but not themselves.
Congressional term limits.... we need 'em.. and maybe some way to
control lobbyists other than to shoot them.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 20:20:27 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were
cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
And some "survived" the crash, and were arrested in Europe a
while later.
PS I don't think "Homeland Security" even existed before
Bush's coup. Were people searched when boarding planes before that? I
never was. Only after I landed, by customs. Even that was unusual.
[]'s
And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
On 1/21/2025 8:20 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on
commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour
more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains
simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US.
Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that
work on high-speed
trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total
travelling time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a
"2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase
1 would kill the
air market completely.
    I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11"Â catastrophe here in the U.S.The
bad guys were
cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
I think that's parallel to armies preparing to fight the
previous war, instead of the one coming up.
As I recall, those Saudis carried box cutters, which were
not then on the list of forbidden items. And until then,
hijackers typically wanted to divert the flight and land
elsewhere. Nobody anticipated someone wanting to turn a
plane into a Kamikaze suicide bomb.
I don't know that the outcome would have been any different
if they'd boarded in any other country. Well, except perhaps
Israel, which enthusiastically embraces racial profiling, at
least against Arabs. That's more difficult in our society.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:07:20 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/21/2025 7:01 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would
not work.
[]'s
That's not right.
Here, the Stasi have infested the trains as well:
https://www.amtrak.com/tickets-id-safety-security
That's about crossing borders to another country. I think
that's reasonable. Lots of criminals try to avoid prosecution by
crossing borders .... over 100 of Bolsonaro's followers fled to the
US. I have no idea how they got permits, most of them do not work, and
many of them are criminals linked to drugs trafficking, prostitution,
money laundering and contraband.
I mean being searched to travel in your own country.... that
should not happen in a "free" country.
I do not go to airports, and even to pick up or drop off
someone; I remain in my car in the parking area.
Well, I used to have to travel by plane.
When traveling in Brazil I prefer 1) A train - if available.
There are very few passenger trains left
2) A bus. They are usually comfortable and have air
conditioning.
3) Ugggh a plane
That's if I have transport on the other end. If I don't, I
just drive there. Trouble is, I'm getting too old to drive. The most I
can stay awake is about 12 hours. Then I just curl up and go to sleep.
I've woken up in a stalled car twice in the last 10 years....
[]'s
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:56:32 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:45:30 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
<snip>
You are correct.
In my other reply, I noted this is pervasive across parties
and other divisions. Ranking 'worst' is maybe not helpful;
Congress are mostly self dealing cheats and liars who write
laws for other people but not themselves.
Congressional term limits.... we need 'em.. and maybe some way to
control lobbyists other than to shoot them.
What's wrong with shooting them?
LOL
[]'s
On 1/21/2025 11:12 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:07:20 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/21/2025 7:01 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not >>>>>> work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I >>>>>> do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-
speed
trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling >>>>> time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop >>>>> travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would
kill the
air market completely.
    I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
    I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would >>>> not work.
    []'s
That's not right.
Here, the Stasi have infested the trains as well:
https://www.amtrak.com/tickets-id-safety-security
    That's about crossing borders to another country. I think
that's reasonable. Lots of criminals try to avoid prosecution by
crossing borders .... over 100 of Bolsonaro's followers fled to the
US. I have no idea how they got permits, most of them do not work, and
many of them are criminals linked to drugs trafficking, prostitution,
money laundering and contraband.
    I mean being searched to travel in your own country.... that
should not happen in a "free" country.
I do not go to airports, and even to pick up or drop off
someone; I remain in my car in the parking area.
    Well, I used to have to travel by plane.
    When traveling in Brazil I prefer 1) A train - if available.
There are very few passenger trains left
    2) A bus. They are usually comfortable and have air
conditioning.
    3) Ugggh a plane
    That's if I have transport on the other end. If I don't, I
just drive there. Trouble is, I'm getting too old to drive. The most I
can stay awake is about 12 hours. Then I just curl up and go to sleep.
I've woken up in a stalled car twice in the last 10 years....
    []'s
Domestic Amtrak security protocols: https://www.ncesc.com/does-amtrak-have-security-check/
On 1/21/2025 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/21/2025 11:12 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:07:20 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/21/2025 7:01 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on
commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour
more to Arizona
and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains
simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the
US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that
work on high- speed
trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a
total travelling time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a
"2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of
phase 1 would kill the
air market completely.
    I agree. You waste over an hour going to the
airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you
reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the
center of town. Two
wasted hours.
    I presume train passengers would not be subject to
"homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the
"air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to
Cuba" excuse would
not work.
    []'s
That's not right.
Here, the Stasi have infested the trains as well:
https://www.amtrak.com/tickets-id-safety-security
    That's about crossing borders to another country. I
think
that's reasonable. Lots of criminals try to avoid
prosecution by
crossing borders .... over 100 of Bolsonaro's followers
fled to the
US. I have no idea how they got permits, most of them do
not work, and
many of them are criminals linked to drugs trafficking,
prostitution,
money laundering and contraband.
    I mean being searched to travel in your own
country.... that
should not happen in a "free" country.
I do not go to airports, and even to pick up or drop off
someone; I remain in my car in the parking area.
    Well, I used to have to travel by plane.
    When traveling in Brazil I prefer 1) A train - if
available.
There are very few passenger trains left
    2) A bus. They are usually comfortable and have air
conditioning.
    3) Ugggh a plane
    That's if I have transport on the other end. If I
don't, I
just drive there. Trouble is, I'm getting too old to
drive. The most I
can stay awake is about 12 hours. Then I just curl up and
go to sleep.
I've woken up in a stalled car twice in the last 10
years....
    []'s
Domestic Amtrak security protocols:
https://www.ncesc.com/does-amtrak-have-security-check/
Well, that's not true at all. It may be a stated policy, but
it's not in use by any stretch of the imagination.
My father likes to visit my sister in Georgia twice a year
and is partial to the Amtrak from Boston to Savannah (he
transfers in either new york, philidehphia, and DC,
depending on the times he traveled)
I drive him to the Amtrak station in Boston. I help him
with his luggage to the platform, help him on the train, and
make sure the attendants understand his health issues. Upon
his return I reverse the process. We've been doing this for
three years now (2x a year), and not once has there ever
been a security checkpoint or any attempt by any TSA or
Amtrak employees to screen him or me, check his or my ID, or
any attempt to restrict my movement in the terminal or
getting on the train even without a ticket. My sister has a
similar experience in Savannah.
They may reserve the right to enforce some sort of security
protocol, but they haven't done it in either Boston or
Savannah in the past 3 years.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 14:17:53 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:56:32 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:45:30 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
<snip>
You are correct.
In my other reply, I noted this is pervasive across parties
and other divisions. Ranking 'worst' is maybe not helpful;
Congress are mostly self dealing cheats and liars who write
laws for other people but not themselves.
Congressional term limits.... we need 'em.. and maybe some way to >>>control lobbyists other than to shoot them.
What's wrong with shooting them?
LOL
[]'s
Noisy.. I hate noise.
On 1/21/2025 8:20 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not
work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I
do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop
travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were
cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
I think that's parallel to armies preparing to fight the previous war, >instead of the one coming up.
As I recall, those Saudis carried box cutters, which were not then on
the list of forbidden items. And until then, hijackers typically wanted
to divert the flight and land elsewhere. Nobody anticipated someone
wanting to turn a plane into a Kamikaze suicide bomb.
I don't know that the outcome would have been any different if they'd
boarded in any other country. Well, except perhaps Israel, which >enthusiastically embraces racial profiling, at least against Arabs.
That's more difficult in our society.
On 1/20/2025 5:19 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2025 3:49 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:I did, Andrew! That was part of the joke.
On 1/20/2025 3:07 PM, AMuzi wrote:
+1
"Men of honor" don't do insider trading.
https://conservancy.umn.edu/server/api/core/
bitstreams/6be96220-009b-47c7-abdb-34f645713a34/content
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/22/insider-trading-and- congress-how-
lawmakers-get-rich-from-stock-market.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/13/us/ politics/congress-
stock-trading-investigation.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stocks-stock-act-
violations- lawmakers-finances-disclosure-2022-12?op=1
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/it-illegal- lawmakers-
trade- stocks-insider-info-they-learn-job-n1165156
Yeah, but: If we didn't read it on eX-Twitter or Fox, it's fake news,
right? ;-)
Check those sources above once again.
On 1/21/2025 10:51 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 20:20:27 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 10:01:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:And some "survived" the crash, and were arrested in Europe a
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not >>>>>> work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I >>>>>> do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on high-speed >>>>> trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total travelling time >>>>> of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop >>>>> travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would kill the >>>>> air market completely.
I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were
cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
while later.
PS I don't think "Homeland Security" even existed before
Bush's coup. Were people searched when boarding planes before that? I
never was. Only after I landed, by customs. Even that was unusual.
[]'s
And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two
wasted hours.
I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland
insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would >>>> not work.
[]'s
There were no 'survivors'. Massoui was unable to make his arranged
meeting with the other plotters on 11 September as he was jailed in
Minnesota on immigration violations. Our 'famed' security apparatus
failed to connect him to the plot until after the fact.
https://www.famous-trials.com/moussaoui
Massoui's indictment: https://www.justice.gov/archives/ag/indictment-zacarias-moussaoui
That's right about air travel. I usually just paid cash, no ID
including after once throwing a rod in my MGB. I bummed a ride to an
airport and flew back with my heavy toolbox, cash ticket, no ID.
On 1/21/2025 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/21/2025 11:12 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:07:20 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:Domestic Amtrak security protocols:
On 1/21/2025 7:01 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not >>>>>>> work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I >>>>>>> do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on
high- speed
trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total
travelling time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop >>>>>> travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would
kill the
air market completely.
    I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two >>>>> wasted hours.
    I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland >>>>> insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market"
paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would >>>>> not work.
    []'s
That's not right.
Here, the Stasi have infested the trains as well:
https://www.amtrak.com/tickets-id-safety-security
    That's about crossing borders to another country. I think
that's reasonable. Lots of criminals try to avoid prosecution by
crossing borders .... over 100 of Bolsonaro's followers fled to the
US. I have no idea how they got permits, most of them do not work, and
many of them are criminals linked to drugs trafficking, prostitution,
money laundering and contraband.
    I mean being searched to travel in your own country.... that
should not happen in a "free" country.
I do not go to airports, and even to pick up or drop off
someone; I remain in my car in the parking area.
    Well, I used to have to travel by plane.
    When traveling in Brazil I prefer 1) A train - if available.
There are very few passenger trains left
    2) A bus. They are usually comfortable and have air
conditioning.
    3) Ugggh a plane
    That's if I have transport on the other end. If I don't, I
just drive there. Trouble is, I'm getting too old to drive. The most I
can stay awake is about 12 hours. Then I just curl up and go to sleep.
I've woken up in a stalled car twice in the last 10 years....
    []'s
https://www.ncesc.com/does-amtrak-have-security-check/
Well, that's not true at all. It may be a stated policy, but it's not
in use by any stretch of the imagination.
My father likes to visit my sister in Georgia twice a year and is
partial to the Amtrak from Boston to Savannah (he transfers in either
new york, philidehphia, and DC, depending on the times he traveled)
I drive him to the Amtrak station in Boston. I help him with his
luggage to the platform, help him on the train, and make sure the
attendants understand his health issues. Upon his return I reverse the process. We've been doing this for three years now (2x a year), and
not once has there ever been a security checkpoint or any attempt by
any TSA or Amtrak employees to screen him or me, check his or my ID,
or any attempt to restrict my movement in the terminal or getting on
the train even without a ticket. My sister has a similar experience in Savannah.
They may reserve the right to enforce some sort of security protocol,
but they haven't done it in either Boston or Savannah in the past 3
years.
Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> writes:^ real-id
On 1/21/2025 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/21/2025 11:12 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 09:07:20 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>Domestic Amtrak security protocols:
On 1/21/2025 7:01 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:48:33 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
San Francisco or Oakland to LA is only an hour on commercial
aircraft. The same to Las Vegas and only a half hour more to Arizona >>>>>>>> and only a half hour more than that to Denver. Trains simply do not >>>>>>>> work with the distances between major cities in the US. Too bad, I >>>>>>>> do like railroads.
On the contrary, exactly those are the distances that work on
high- speed
trains. "One hour on commercial aricraft" means a total
travelling time
of approx. three hours "city-center to city-center"; a "2:40 non-stop >>>>>>> travel time" by train as planned on completion of phase 1 would
kill the
air market completely.
    I agree. You waste over an hour going to the airport and
passing through the secret state police. And when you reach your
destination, it's usually at least 30 mins to the center of town. Two >>>>>> wasted hours.
    I presume train passengers would not be subject to "homeland >>>>>> insecurity" groping. Unless one of the CEO's from the "air market" >>>>>> paid someone to plant a bomb. The usual "take me to Cuba" excuse would >>>>>> not work.
    []'s
That's not right.
Here, the Stasi have infested the trains as well:
https://www.amtrak.com/tickets-id-safety-security
    That's about crossing borders to another country. I think
that's reasonable. Lots of criminals try to avoid prosecution by
crossing borders .... over 100 of Bolsonaro's followers fled to the
US. I have no idea how they got permits, most of them do not work, and >>>> many of them are criminals linked to drugs trafficking, prostitution,
money laundering and contraband.
    I mean being searched to travel in your own country.... that
should not happen in a "free" country.
I do not go to airports, and even to pick up or drop off
someone; I remain in my car in the parking area.
    Well, I used to have to travel by plane.
    When traveling in Brazil I prefer 1) A train - if available.
There are very few passenger trains left
    2) A bus. They are usually comfortable and have air
conditioning.
    3) Ugggh a plane
    That's if I have transport on the other end. If I don't, I
just drive there. Trouble is, I'm getting too old to drive. The most I >>>> can stay awake is about 12 hours. Then I just curl up and go to sleep. >>>> I've woken up in a stalled car twice in the last 10 years....
    []'s
https://www.ncesc.com/does-amtrak-have-security-check/
Well, that's not true at all. It may be a stated policy, but it's not
in use by any stretch of the imagination.
My father likes to visit my sister in Georgia twice a year and is
partial to the Amtrak from Boston to Savannah (he transfers in either
new york, philidehphia, and DC, depending on the times he traveled)
I drive him to the Amtrak station in Boston. I help him with his
luggage to the platform, help him on the train, and make sure the
attendants understand his health issues. Upon his return I reverse the
process. We've been doing this for three years now (2x a year), and
not once has there ever been a security checkpoint or any attempt by
any TSA or Amtrak employees to screen him or me, check his or my ID,
or any attempt to restrict my movement in the terminal or getting on
the train even without a ticket. My sister has a similar experience in
Savannah.
They may reserve the right to enforce some sort of security protocol,
but they haven't done it in either Boston or Savannah in the past 3
years.
That was my experience boarding in Albany as well. I had brought a
passport thinking they might go all read-id on me, but in the event they
didn't check a thing. Could change overnight, who knows.
If I became aware of something that was going to change the value of
the stock and acted on it, it would be insider trading.
On Mon Jan 20 13:47:39 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
If I became aware of something that was going to change the value of
the stock and acted on it, it would be insider trading.
ONLY if it was information not available to the general public. Companies send prospectuses to investment firms that are by law supposed to be accurate. So if they recommend a stock it is worth its selling value.
IF they are lying on that prospectus and you discover that and take action by selling your stock without making that public, that is a sort of insider trading. But that is VERY serious shit and would put the directors behind bars.
On 1/20/2025 7:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/20/2025 6:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 18:00:29 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jan 20 18:52:51 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 11:34:29 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 17.01.2025 um 23:53 schrieb cyclintom:
On Fri Jan 17 18:35:54 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 21:13:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Sun Jan 12 10:23:48 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 22:07:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Thu Jan 9 16:04:05 2025 Shadow wrote:
LOL
The fifth horseman of the apocalypse is #FAKE_NEWS. >>>>>>>>>>> Possibly even more powerful than the other 4, but he only
targets the weak-of-mind and the unhealthily greedy (Like >>>>>>>>>>> Musk and the
Meta guy), so we're safe.
Why don't you tell us what you actually know about na man who >>>>>>>>>> started
with nothing and is now one of the most powerfull men on this >>>>>>>>>> planet without
ever losing nhis morals? Does that make you jealous since your >>>>>>>>>> morals,
long ago were cast aside?
Who on Earth are you talking about?
Jeeesus? He's only "powerful" to the weak of mind. >>>>>>>>>
Not Musk** (inherited his family's fortune which was made with
slave labour in SA, then multiplied it with insider trading and >>>>>>>>> other
crimes), or Zukerberg "they trust me, the stupid fsks". Morals? >>>>>>>>> LOL.
Neither would know what "morals" meant even if it bit them in >>>>>>>>> the ass.
So .... who?
[]'s
** PS Zukerberg and Musk have announced that they welcome the >>>>>>>>> fifth
horseman, as long as they help the anti-christs (ask someone with >>>>>>>>> mental issues that believes in the bibel. The prophecies are all >>>>>>>>> there....)
So, you don't even know what "insider trading" is. I should have >>>>>>>> known.
Nice, saves you looking it up. Insider trading is using
knowledge you have(due to contacts, bribes etc) that the general >>>>>>> public does not have access to, to manipulate the stock market. Buy
cheap and sell high.
To produce "facts" notably on social media but also in >>>>>>> newspapers etc that make shares crash/soar and make money with >>>>>>> that is
even more perverse. It's a felony.
All judges have their price though. As Musk is fond of >>>>>>> reminding the people he conned.
My Google is broken
Too bad you don't know any real connection between Elon Musk and >>>>>> insider trading.
Having "no need in insider trading" is not a sufficient reason to
refrain from insider trading.
But "insider" trading exists all over the world. Back when I was
working in the oil field you can't imagine the number of drilling crew >>>> members who absolutely had to contact their wife if we brought in a
good fat exploration well.
We got a very nice 3 year contract because one of our employees heard >>>> an oil company manager mention, in a bar, "I wish I knew a good
company to do that project". We made sure that as soon as his office >>>> opened the next morning somebody was standing at the door to tell him. >>>
John, that isn't insider trading. Nancy Pelosi was pushing LAWS
through Congress that allowed wild growth in specific companies that
she bought into early.
Really? Tell us more... with perhaps a tiny bit of proof that you know
what you are talking about?
The most egregious blatant case was the Pelosi Visa options trade. It
was well reported:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/nancy-pelosi-s- husband-dumped-thousands-of-visa-shares-worth-over-500k-just-2-months- before-the-doj-s-antitrust-lawsuit-and-it-s-reigniting-insider-trading- concerns/ar-AA1rDBsq
Horseshit.
Selling stock two months before the DOJ opens an investigation hardly
rises to the level of "egregious and blatent".
The most egregious and blatant cases were Burr and Loeffler who made
millions in trading after closed-sessions on the pandemic.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing/
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/488576-tucker-carlson-calls-on-burr-to-resign-amid-reports-of-stock-selloff-due-to/
Feinstein was caught up in the scandal too.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/14/dianne-feinstein-husband-stock-trades-258693
Take off your partisan blinders, andrew.
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
IF they are lying on that prospectus and you discover that and take action
by selling your stock without making that public, that is a sort of insider >trading. But that is VERY serious shit and would put the directors behind >bars.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 20:20:27 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Don't forget the "9/11" catastrophe here in the U.S.The bad guys were
cleared ,by security, to be passengers on the airplanes.
Security was never intended to stop bad guys. Its purpose is to
assure the passengers that Something Is Being Done.
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