On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 21:54:11 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/24/2025 6:48 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 14:33:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake & shift
levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of racing technology
ever designed for increasing speed. But that claim met with little
respect. One skeptic noted that there was no great increase in average >>> race speeds in Paris-Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders,
Leige-Bastogne-Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including
during the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the years 1930 - 1960 >>> average speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does not mean that STI >>> is not tactically beneficial. That's a separate issue.)
But if not STI, what were the most significant tech developments
regarding bicycle race speeds?
Here?s my list:
Pedals & cranks, as opposed to scooting a ?hobby horse? via feet on the >>> ground.
Tubular metal frames and wire tension (spoke) wheels.
Large driven wheels, to give a much higher effective ?gear.? (The
Ordinary or Penny Farthing)
The ?Safety Bicycle? with a diamond frame and chain drive, getting the >>> rider down lower, to greatly reduce aero drag as well as pitchover on
braking.
Pneumatic tires. Hard tired ?safeties? had terrible rolling resistance. >>>
The handlebar stem, invented by the heroic Major Taylor, to allow a much >>> more aero riding position.
Rim brakes, by whatever mechanism, as opposed to spoon brakes acting on >>> a tire.
Multiple gears, by whatever mechanism.
The derailleur, making multiple gears easy to shift, customizable and
light weight.
Recumbent geometry in some situations. Recumbents seem to be slower
uphill, but tend to be faster on level or downhills
Fully enclosed streamlined aero shells tremendously increased speed, but >>> at a great reduction in versatility and practicality.
Beyond those, ISTM that most developments have been chasing ever
diminishing returns.
..and yet people buy them and use them. What's your problem with that?
Good grief! It's a discussion of bike technology! I'm not saying I have
a problem with anything!
Sure you are. You seem to have problems with most everything that
happens outside your bubble.
You're arguing that modern bicycle developments are not worth the
effort. Why would you argue that if you have no problems with it?
Normal people don't argue about things they have no problem with.
You're an angry, bitter man with an obsession. You should seek help.
Krygowski, you're an angry bitter old man who is projecting. What has
made you so angry and bitter?
You're the one complaining, as usual, this time, once again, about
modern bicycle technology, and you think I'm angry and bitter. That's
a hoot.
Most of Krygowski's posts, at least since I've been on RBT, are either bragging or complaining. I've seen few, if any expressions of
happiness or joy from him. Does he have nothing to be happy about?
Me? I'm a happy guy. I could compain about being old, hard of
hearing, sort of crippled, vertigo, neuropathy, arthritis, etc, but I
don't. I'm having too much fun.
What good is sitting alone in your room?
Come hear the music play
Life is a cabaret, old chum
Come to the cabaret
Written by: John Kander, Fred Ebb
I'm going to take issue with this claim. The speeds have been showing a steady increase. "Great" increase is somewhat subjective, and taking
into account the general "square-law effect" with going faster on a
bicycle, a increase of 1MPH from 28 to 29 MPH could indeed be considered
a "great" increase over going from 25 to 26 MPH.
Granted, this has little to do with integrated shifting, my nit is over
the claim "there was no great increase in average race speeds....since
about 1960"
from wikipedia, the top ten fastest editions of PAris-Roubaix were:
Mathieu van der Poel (NED) 47.80 km/h (29.70 mph) 2024
Mathieu van der Poel (NED) 46.84 km/h (29.11 mph) 2023
Dylan van Baarle (NED) 45.79 km/h (28.45 mph) 2022
Greg Van Avermaet (BEL) 45.20 km/h (28.09 mph) 2017
Peter Post (NED) 45.13 km/h (28.04 mph) 1964
Fabian Cancellara (SUI) 44.19 km/h (27.46 mph) 2013
Rik Van Steenbergen (BEL) 43.99 km/h (27.33 mph) 1948
Mathew Hayman (AUS) 43.91 km/h (27.28 mph) 2016
Peter Sagan (SVK) 43.55 km/h (27.06 mph) 2018
Pino Cerami (BEL) 43.54 km/h (27.05 mph) 1960
Out of the top ten in the 100+ year history of the race, 6 are within
the past ten years. I challenge anyone to argue against a 10% increase
since Sagan in 2018 to VDP in 2024 as anything but a "great" increase.
Milan/San Remo shows a similar trend. From https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/milano-sanremo/results/fastest-editions
:
Edition Year Avg. speed
115 2024 46.11
114 2023 45.773
113 2022 45.331
97 2006 45.268
112 2021 45.06
100 2009 44.421
98 2007 43.665
110 2019 43.625
104 2013 43.577
102 2011 43.486
It certainly isn't due to drivetrain technology, I'll suggest the trend towards wider tires has a great deal to do with it, but more so training
and diet technological advances.
On 1/24/2025 9:54 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2025 6:48 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 14:33:53 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake & shift
levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of racing technology
ever designed for increasing speed. But that claim met with little
respect. One skeptic noted that there was no great increase in average >>> race speeds in Paris-Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders,
Leige-Bastogne-Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including
during the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the years 1930 - 1960 >>> average speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does not mean that STI >>> is not tactically beneficial. That's a separate issue.)
But if not STI, what were the most significant tech developments
regarding bicycle race speeds?
Here?s my list:
Pedals & cranks, as opposed to scooting a ?hobby horse? via feet on the >>> ground.
Tubular metal frames and wire tension (spoke) wheels.
Large driven wheels, to give a much higher effective ?gear.? (The
Ordinary or Penny Farthing)
The ?Safety Bicycle? with a diamond frame and chain drive, getting the >>> rider down lower, to greatly reduce aero drag as well as pitchover on
braking.
Pneumatic tires. Hard tired ?safeties? had terrible rolling resistance. >>>
The handlebar stem, invented by the heroic Major Taylor, to allow a much >>> more aero riding position.
Rim brakes, by whatever mechanism, as opposed to spoon brakes acting on >>> a tire.
Multiple gears, by whatever mechanism.
The derailleur, making multiple gears easy to shift, customizable and
light weight.
Recumbent geometry in some situations. Recumbents seem to be slower
uphill, but tend to be faster on level or downhills
Fully enclosed streamlined aero shells tremendously increased speed, but >>> at a great reduction in versatility and practicality.
Beyond those, ISTM that most developments have been chasing ever
diminishing returns.
..and yet people buy them and use them. What's your problem with that?
Good grief! It's a discussion of bike technology! I'm not saying I have
a problem with anything!
You're an angry, bitter man with an obsession. You should seek help.
Another case in which the floriduh dumbass denigrates topical
discussions in a discussion forum.
"why are you asking about bicycle technology in a bicycle technology forum?"
ignorant dumbass.....
On 24 Jan 2025 23:51:10 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/24/2025 2:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:Though it has ment that groupsets manufacturers do produce/provide for the >Pros some truly massive chain rings I don?t spin out 46/11 on the flat, and >gravity is my friend on the downs being on the heavy side!
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake & shift
levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of racing technology
ever designed for increasing speed. But that claim met with little
respect. One skeptic noted that there was no great increase in average >>> race speeds in Paris-Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Leige- >>> Bastogne-Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including during
the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the? years 1930 - 1960 average >>> speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does not mean that STI is not >>> tactically beneficial. That's a separate issue.)
I'm going to take issue with this claim. The speeds have been showing a
steady increase. "Great" increase is somewhat subjective, and taking
into account the general "square-law effect" with going faster on a
bicycle, a increase of 1MPH from 28 to 29 MPH could indeed be considered >> a "great" increase over going from 25 to 26 MPH.
Granted, this has little to do with integrated shifting, my nit is over
the claim "there was no great increase in average race speeds....since
about 1960"
from wikipedia, the top ten fastest editions of PAris-Roubaix were:
Mathieu van der Poel (NED) 47.80 km/h (29.70 mph) 2024
Mathieu van der Poel (NED) 46.84 km/h (29.11 mph) 2023
Dylan van Baarle (NED) 45.79 km/h (28.45 mph) 2022
Greg Van Avermaet (BEL) 45.20 km/h (28.09 mph) 2017
Peter Post (NED) 45.13 km/h (28.04 mph) 1964
Fabian Cancellara (SUI) 44.19 km/h (27.46 mph) 2013
Rik Van Steenbergen (BEL) 43.99 km/h (27.33 mph) 1948
Mathew Hayman (AUS) 43.91 km/h (27.28 mph) 2016
Peter Sagan (SVK) 43.55 km/h (27.06 mph) 2018
Pino Cerami (BEL) 43.54 km/h (27.05 mph) 1960
Out of the top ten in the 100+ year history of the race, 6 are within
the past ten years. I challenge anyone to argue against a 10% increase
since Sagan in 2018 to VDP in 2024 as anything but a "great" increase.
Milan/San Remo shows a similar trend. From
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/milano-sanremo/results/fastest-editions
:
Edition Year Avg. speed
115 2024 46.11
114 2023 45.773
113 2022 45.331
97 2006 45.268
112 2021 45.06
100 2009 44.421
98 2007 43.665
110 2019 43.625
104 2013 43.577
102 2011 43.486
It certainly isn't due to drivetrain technology, I'll suggest the trend
towards wider tires has a great deal to do with it, but more so training >> and diet technological advances.
Roger Merriman
But if not STI, what were the most significant tech developments
regarding bicycle race speeds?
Here?s my list:
Pedals & cranks, as opposed to scooting a ?hobby horse? via feet on the >>> ground.
Tubular metal frames and wire tension (spoke) wheels.
Large driven wheels, to give a much higher effective ?gear.? (The
Ordinary or Penny Farthing)
The ?Safety Bicycle? with a diamond frame and chain drive, getting the >>> rider down lower, to greatly reduce aero drag as well as pitchover on
braking.
Pneumatic tires. Hard tired ?safeties? had terrible rolling resistance. >>>
The handlebar stem, invented by the heroic Major Taylor, to allow a much >>> more aero riding position.
Rim brakes, by whatever mechanism, as opposed to spoon brakes acting on >>> a tire.
Multiple gears, by whatever mechanism.
The derailleur, making multiple gears easy to shift, customizable and
light weight.
Recumbent geometry in some situations. Recumbents seem to be slower
uphill, but tend to be faster on level or downhills
Fully enclosed streamlined aero shells tremendously increased speed, but >>> at a great reduction in versatility and practicality.
Beyond those, ISTM that most developments have been chasing ever
diminishing returns.
46 is massive? I have a 53, also with an 11.. Although I don't use
that anymore except in a downhill. Granted that I have a 26 inch
wheel.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/25/2025 11:04 AM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank, using average speeds of flat races where the riders are in high
gear all of the time, the roads have been vastely degrading year to year >> and the distances have been being reduced is hardly a way to measure the >> effect of shifting components.
Are those all flat races? Really? And have the roads really degraded in
the past 40 years or so? I'd love to see your evidence on both points.
Kinda the opposite bit like the queen always visiting to the whiff of new paint, number of areas resurfacing as part of the deal for which ever Tour visits and if anything they have searched out steeper climbs to well climb which wasn?t popular amongst the peloton at the time, see David Millar and the Alto de l'Angliru which admittedly is steep at around 25% at steepest apparently.
He got off the bike was a good interview on GCN a while back it?s behind paywalls and so on now.
By today?s standards it?s steep but not extremely so but bike gearing
wasn?t up to snuff then and so on.
On 1/24/2025 1:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake &
shift levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of
racing technology ever designed for increasing speed. But
that claim met with little respect. One skeptic noted that
there was no great increase in average race speeds in Paris-
Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Leige-Bastogne-
Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including during
the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the years 1930 -
1960 average speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does
not mean that STI is not tactically beneficial. That's a
separate issue.)
But if not STI, what were the most significant tech
developments regarding bicycle race speeds?
Here?s my list:
Pedals & cranks, as opposed to scooting a ?hobby horse? via
feet on the ground.
Tubular metal frames and wire tension (spoke) wheels.
Large driven wheels, to give a much higher effective
?gear.? (The Ordinary or Penny Farthing)
The ?Safety Bicycle? with a diamond frame and chain drive,
getting the rider down lower, to greatly reduce aero drag as
well as pitchover on braking.
Pneumatic tires. Hard tired ?safeties? had terrible rolling
resistance.
The handlebar stem, invented by the heroic Major Taylor, to
allow a much more aero riding position.
Rim brakes, by whatever mechanism, as opposed to spoon
brakes acting on a tire.
Multiple gears, by whatever mechanism.
The derailleur, making multiple gears easy to shift,
customizable and light weight.
Recumbent geometry in some situations. Recumbents seem to be
slower uphill, but tend to be faster on level or downhills
Fully enclosed streamlined aero shells tremendously
increased speed, but at a great reduction in versatility and
practicality.
Beyond those, ISTM that most developments have been chasing
ever diminishing returns.
I would have included roller chain first and then Sedisport
interrupted sidelink chain.
Roller chain is a huge improvement over block chain and
modern chain is both lighter and much more favorable to
faster more positive shifts.
(OK, neither to the level of pneumatic tires, but something.)
On 1/24/2025 6:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 1/24/2025 2:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake & shift
levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of racing technology
ever designed for increasing speed. But that claim met with little
respect. One skeptic noted that there was no great increase in average
race speeds in Paris-Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Leige-
Bastogne-Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including during
the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the years 1930 - 1960
average speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does not mean that
STI is not tactically beneficial. That's a separate issue.)
I'm going to take issue with this claim. The speeds have been showing a steady increase. "Great" increase is somewhat subjective, and taking
into account the general "square-law effect" with going faster on a bicycle, a increase of 1MPH from 28 to 29 MPH could indeed be considered
a "great" increase over going from 25 to 26 MPH.
Granted, this has little to do with integrated shifting, my nit is over
the claim "there was no great increase in average race speeds....since about 1960"
The discussion I saw had a graph representing the winning speeds over
time. I think I've tracked down the website it apparently came from: https://www.cyclistshub.com/cycling-monuments-statistics/
Lots of data there. (Anyone curious about the winning riders' heights?)
The "Cycling Monuments ? Average Speed" plot is about a third of the way down. There's lots of scatter, of course; but the plot makes clear that
the speed increases after about 1950 were nothing like the speed
increases up to 1950.
On 1/24/2025 1:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake &
shift levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of
racing technology ever designed for increasing speed. But
that claim met with little respect. One skeptic noted that
there was no great increase in average race speeds in Paris-
Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Leige-Bastogne-
Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including during
the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the years 1930 -
1960 average speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does
not mean that STI is not tactically beneficial. That's a
separate issue.)
But if not STI, what were the most significant tech
developments regarding bicycle race speeds?
Here?s my list:
Pedals & cranks, as opposed to scooting a ?hobby horse? via
feet on the ground.
Tubular metal frames and wire tension (spoke) wheels.
Large driven wheels, to give a much higher effective
?gear.? (The Ordinary or Penny Farthing)
The ?Safety Bicycle? with a diamond frame and chain drive,
getting the rider down lower, to greatly reduce aero drag as
well as pitchover on braking.
Pneumatic tires. Hard tired ?safeties? had terrible rolling
resistance.
The handlebar stem, invented by the heroic Major Taylor, to
allow a much more aero riding position.
Rim brakes, by whatever mechanism, as opposed to spoon
brakes acting on a tire.
Multiple gears, by whatever mechanism.
The derailleur, making multiple gears easy to shift,
customizable and light weight.
Recumbent geometry in some situations. Recumbents seem to be
slower uphill, but tend to be faster on level or downhills
Fully enclosed streamlined aero shells tremendously
increased speed, but at a great reduction in versatility and
practicality.
Beyond those, ISTM that most developments have been chasing
ever diminishing returns.
I would have included roller chain first and then Sedisport
interrupted sidelink chain.
Roller chain is a huge improvement over block chain and
modern chain is both lighter and much more favorable to
faster more positive shifts.
(OK, neither to the level of pneumatic tires, but something.)
No my gravel bikes chainrings are not massive by any means dropped from
32-48 to 30-46 recently which has made no difference to the top end in that at that point I?m generally freewheeling.
But pros are running 53 and above and into the 60?s apparently <https://www.bikeradar.com/features/tech/why-are-pros-using-such-big-chainrings>
As the speed of road racing has year by year increased.
On 1/24/2025 10:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/24/2025 5:10 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
I'd like to point out that integrated brake/shifter designs also
enhanced safety, eliminating the need to move the hands from a
position of control on the bars (Even bar-end shifters required moving
your hand to a position with less control).
Yes, I suppose in a furious pack sprint that could be an issue.
It's an issue in general. I remember cases long ago on a steep climb
when a rider would have to reach down for a down tube shift and nearly
fall over.
Those of us who remember the "new bike vs. 1980s bike" comparison road test, with young racers riding up a mountain, may recall that some of
the young guys said it was scary to take their hands off the lever to shift.
Ah well. I've taken off both jackets and rain capes while riding. I even drink from a water bottle while riding! But I'm not racing.
And some people never quite got the hang of being able to shift without looking down at the lever lol....
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:12:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/25/2025 11:04 AM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank, using average speeds of flat races where the riders are in high >>> gear all of the time, the roads have been vastely degrading year to
year and the distances have been being reduced is hardly a way to
measure the effect of shifting components.
Are those all flat races? Really? And have the roads really degraded in
the past 40 years or so? I'd love to see your evidence on both points.
Of what use eould evidence be to you? You are even uaware that pros can climb 5% grades in high gear! And many mountain passes have pretty long sections of 5%.
Even so Pros are not riding up in the big ring, in general they spin to
win, they are remarkably fast up even quite steep grades, but they are
using the big cassettes and on mountain stages will be using appropriate gearing!
On 1/27/2025 6:12 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Somebody told him that nobody likes braggarts and liars.
You reflexively cry "liar" anytime I mention having done something you
cannot or could never do. You used to complain that I didn't provide documentation. When I did provide documentation, you cried that I was
just bragging.
Don't take any silence on my part for some sort of surrender. Interpret
it as resolution to not waste as much of my time responding to closed
minded, bitter old fools.
But I'll admit, sometimes I slip up.
On 1/30/2025 5:44 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 06:27:08 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:39:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/27/2025 6:12 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Somebody told him that nobody likes braggarts and liars.
You reflexively cry "liar" anytime I mention having done something you >>> cannot or could never do.
Outside of standing in front of a classroom, something I am loath to
do, and a few other things where I got better results from doing
something different, what are some of the things you do that I cannot
do?
There are several people in RBT who have done things I cannot do. Tom
Kunick builds and rides bikes like I cannot do. Andrew Muzu rides
fixies, runs a bike shop, and rebuilds bikes like I cannot do. Junior
Carrington rides fixies and races bikes like I cannot do.
You see, unlike you, I am not afraid to admit to where I've been
bettered. It happens regularly to all of us.
There are many people who do things I cannot or could never do.
******** You are not on that list.
One the other hand, you and I both know I've done many things you
haven't done and cannot do.
You used to complain that I didn't provide
documentation. When I did provide documentation, you cried that I was
just bragging.
It's not documentation when you make claims about what you can do.
It's not documentation to relate what someone unknown person said
about you. It's not documentation when you post what you say to your
imaginary friends.
Do you even understand what documentation is?
At the bottom of this post is some of your bragging. None of it is
documented.
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond
to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
Don't take any silence on my part for some sort of surrender. Interpret >>> it as resolution to not waste as much of my time responding to closed
minded, bitter old fools.
heh, heh, heh... A whole lot of projection there from RBT's official
resident closed minded bitter old fool.
But I'll admit, sometimes I slip up.
Krygowski's undocumented brags:
"Am I qualified to talk about such things? Yes, by virtue of attending
multiple classes at various levels for each of the programs described
above. I've also acted as an editorial consultant on two well known
books dealing with those matters. I've written many articles on those
and related topics, and had some of them reprinted by publications in
other states and one other country. I no longer maintain the teaching
certification, but I've taught many cycling classes, I've written
scripts for and appeared in televised instructional spots, I've been
interviewed for newspapers and TV on such matters, and I've spoken (by
request) at city, regional and statewide gatherings."
"I've written articles about dogs vs. bikes, and I
was once quoted on the issue in _Bicycling_ magazine."
"there are others who have examined my
bicycling qualifications, tested me and proclaimed that I do, indeed,
know what I'm talking about regarding bicycling."
"I've been riding with this club for 35 years now. I've given
workshops and classes on riding, including group riding. I've written
articles on it for the club newsletter and for other publications.
I've had other cycling instructors compliment my riding, and say they
learned and improved by watching me. Just last night, one member took
me aside and asked me to give tips to a new member who obviously
needed advice on group riding."
"I ride as a competent adult on normal roads. I've taught others to do
that, and I've been recognized for such work. The remarks I posted
above were not bragging."
--Frank Krygowski
As I posted above.....
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond
to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
??????
..... apparently he's gone back into his bubble
One persistent problem with trolls and other obnoxious Usenet posters is this: When you ignore them, they think they've somehow won.
Sorry to take away your reason for rising in the morning. Now you'll
have to find something else to do with your life.
On 1/31/2025 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/31/2025 9:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/30/2025 5:44 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 06:27:08 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:39:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/27/2025 6:12 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Somebody told him that nobody likes braggarts and liars.
You reflexively cry "liar" anytime I mention having done something you >>>>> cannot or could never do.
Outside of standing in front of a classroom, something I am loath to >>>> do, and a few other things where I got better results from doing
something different, what are some of the things you do that I cannot >>>> do?
There are several people in RBT who have done things I cannot do. Tom >>>> Kunick builds and rides bikes like I cannot do. Andrew Muzu rides
fixies, runs a bike shop, and rebuilds bikes like I cannot do. Junior >>>> Carrington rides fixies and races bikes like I cannot do.
You see, unlike you, I am not afraid to admit to where I've been
bettered. It happens regularly to all of us.
There are many people who do things I cannot or could never do.
******** You are not on that list.
One the other hand, you and I both know I've done many things you
haven't done and cannot do.
You used to complain that I didn't provide
documentation. When I did provide documentation, you cried that I was >>>>> just bragging.
It's not documentation when you make claims about what you can do.
It's not documentation to relate what someone unknown person said
about you. It's not documentation when you post what you say to your >>>> imaginary friends.
Do you even understand what documentation is?
At the bottom of this post is some of your bragging. None of it is
documented.
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond >>>> to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
Don't take any silence on my part for some sort of surrender.
Interpret
it as resolution to not waste as much of my time responding to closed >>>>> minded, bitter old fools.
heh, heh, heh... A whole lot of projection there from RBT's official >>>> resident closed minded bitter old fool.
But I'll admit, sometimes I slip up.
Krygowski's undocumented brags:
"Am I qualified to talk about such things? Yes, by virtue of attending >>>> multiple classes at various levels for each of the programs described >>>> above. I've also acted as an editorial consultant on two well known
books dealing with those matters. I've written many articles on those >>>> and related topics, and had some of them reprinted by publications in >>>> other states and one other country. I no longer maintain the teaching >>>> certification, but I've taught many cycling classes, I've written
scripts for and appeared in televised instructional spots, I've been >>>> interviewed for newspapers and TV on such matters, and I've spoken (by >>>> request) at city, regional and statewide gatherings."
"I've written articles about dogs vs. bikes, and I
was once quoted on the issue in _Bicycling_ magazine."
"there are others who have examined my
bicycling qualifications, tested me and proclaimed that I do, indeed, >>>> know what I'm talking about regarding bicycling."
"I've been riding with this club for 35 years now. I've given
workshops and classes on riding, including group riding. I've written >>>> articles on it for the club newsletter and for other publications.
I've had other cycling instructors compliment my riding, and say they >>>> learned and improved by watching me. Just last night, one member took >>>> me aside and asked me to give tips to a new member who obviously
needed advice on group riding."
"I ride as a competent adult on normal roads. I've taught others to do >>>> that, and I've been recognized for such work. The remarks I posted
above were not bragging."
--Frank Krygowski
As I posted above.....
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond >>> to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
??????
..... apparently he's gone back into his bubble
One persistent problem with trolls and other obnoxious Usenet posters
is this: When you ignore them, they think they've somehow won.
Sorry to take away your reason for rising in the morning. Now you'll
have to find something else to do with your life.
" they think they've somehow won."
Won what? Are there prizes?
dunno know, ask the dumbass - he's the one who seems to be obsessed with getting the the last word.
On 1/30/2025 5:44 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 06:27:08 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:39:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/27/2025 6:12 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Somebody told him that nobody likes braggarts and liars.
You reflexively cry "liar" anytime I mention having done something you >>>> cannot or could never do.
Outside of standing in front of a classroom, something I am loath to
do, and a few other things where I got better results from doing
something different, what are some of the things you do that I cannot
do?
There are several people in RBT who have done things I cannot do. Tom
Kunick builds and rides bikes like I cannot do. Andrew Muzu rides
fixies, runs a bike shop, and rebuilds bikes like I cannot do. Junior
Carrington rides fixies and races bikes like I cannot do.
You see, unlike you, I am not afraid to admit to where I've been
bettered. It happens regularly to all of us.
There are many people who do things I cannot or could never do.
******** You are not on that list.
One the other hand, you and I both know I've done many things you
haven't done and cannot do.
You used to complain that I didn't provide
documentation. When I did provide documentation, you cried that I was >>>> just bragging.
It's not documentation when you make claims about what you can do.
It's not documentation to relate what someone unknown person said
about you. It's not documentation when you post what you say to your >>> imaginary friends.
Do you even understand what documentation is?
At the bottom of this post is some of your bragging. None of it is
documented.
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond >>> to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
Don't take any silence on my part for some sort of surrender. Interpret >>>> it as resolution to not waste as much of my time responding to closed >>>> minded, bitter old fools.
heh, heh, heh... A whole lot of projection there from RBT's official >>> resident closed minded bitter old fool.
But I'll admit, sometimes I slip up.
Krygowski's undocumented brags:
"Am I qualified to talk about such things? Yes, by virtue of attending >>> multiple classes at various levels for each of the programs described
above. I've also acted as an editorial consultant on two well known
books dealing with those matters. I've written many articles on those
and related topics, and had some of them reprinted by publications in
other states and one other country. I no longer maintain the teaching
certification, but I've taught many cycling classes, I've written
scripts for and appeared in televised instructional spots, I've been
interviewed for newspapers and TV on such matters, and I've spoken (by >>> request) at city, regional and statewide gatherings."
"I've written articles about dogs vs. bikes, and I
was once quoted on the issue in _Bicycling_ magazine."
"there are others who have examined my
bicycling qualifications, tested me and proclaimed that I do, indeed,
know what I'm talking about regarding bicycling."
"I've been riding with this club for 35 years now. I've given
workshops and classes on riding, including group riding. I've written
articles on it for the club newsletter and for other publications.
I've had other cycling instructors compliment my riding, and say they
learned and improved by watching me. Just last night, one member took
me aside and asked me to give tips to a new member who obviously
needed advice on group riding."
"I ride as a competent adult on normal roads. I've taught others to do >>> that, and I've been recognized for such work. The remarks I posted
above were not bragging."
--Frank Krygowski
As I posted above.....
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond
to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
He provided documentation many times supporting all his claims, you
ignorant arrogant asshole. And no, no one is going to go back and do
your homework for you showing the links the various articles and
publications which support his claims. That's when you pull out you "bragging" card anyway.
??????
..... apparently he's gone back into his bubble
Apparently he's ignoring a petulant willfully ignorant dumbass.
On Sun, 02 Feb 2025 21:04:22 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In my experience, hardly anyone could shift without looking down to move their hands to the shift levers accurately. This was happening in the heat of racing and you couldn't afford to miss a shift. And it was only a glance.
Eddy Merckx raced with shifters and supposedly someone asked him if
he ever missed a shift and he replied "I haven't missed a shift since
I was 12 years old".
Why would you look? My memory was it was done by feel ie push until the
chain engaged the next cog, and bit more until it was quiet ie not brushing the front mech or the chain was rattling the cassette.
Unless your trying to gauge by eye! As your riding the chain position it?s not particularly useful to look, in the same way don?t need to look to get the water bottle etc, even a old MTBer such as myself can manage that!
On 2/4/2025 12:24 AM, John B. wrote:Constitution and you believe that you're winning something? Murder rates tend to be lowest in areas with the most highly rural populations so zsparate people and you don't have violent confrontations. Gun laws make little to no diffrence.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 20:55:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 12:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Noone "wins" an argument about opinions. Is that what you think you're doing by arguing that Catrike shouldn't be carrying a gun despite a Constitutional Amendment giving him the right to do so? Your opinion appears to be counter to the
I'm just pointing out that almost all people who carry guns do so
because they are afraid. In nearly all cases, they are afraid of things
that never happen. That's phobia.
And I'm aware I'm violating my resolution to stop responding to, um, a
certain type of person. I'll try to do better.
... would you answer just a few little questions?
(1)
According to a new Washington Post-Ipsos poll released on
Monday....found that 32 percent of adults report owning guns.
Could you tell us what portion of these gun owners you interviewed to determine how many actually carry a gun.
(2) Did you determine what, if anything, these gun carriers were
afraid of? Fear does very a great deal depending on circumstances you
know.
Or is just another example of Frankie blathering on about a subject
that he knows nothing about trying to impress the readers with his
vast knowledge?
John, I don't see the point of your question #1. I didn't make any
claims about the number of people carrying guns. Why are you trying to
bring up that number?
As to what gun "protection" fans are afraid of, read the article I
linked in another post - the one the tricycle rider is purportedly
AFRAID to click! It quotes LaPierre listing the oh so scary things that justify carrying a gun: "We know in the world that surrounds us there
are terrorists and there are home invaders, drug cartels, carjackers, knockout gamers, and rapers, and haters, and campus killers, airport
killers, shopping mall killers..."
Remember, that guy is on your side of the argument, And yet, in the text
of the article, the NRA admits that the chance of needing a gun against
such things is beyond infinitesmal. And understand that we people who do
not have phobias about those terrible dangers do just fine. Exceptions
exist, but they are too rare to justify bothering with a gun - and
risking the chance that the gun will do more harm than good.
On 2/3/2025 11:24 PM, John B. wrote:Constitution and you believe that you're winning something? Murder rates tend to be lowest in areas with the most highly rural populations so zsparate people and you don't have violent confrontations. Gun laws make little to no diffrence.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 20:55:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 12:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Noone "wins" an argument about opinions. Is that what you think you're doing by arguing that Catrike shouldn't be carrying a gun despite a Constitutional Amendment giving him the right to do so? Your opinion appears to be counter to the
I'm just pointing out that almost all people who carry guns do so
because they are afraid. In nearly all cases, they are afraid of things
that never happen. That's phobia.
And I'm aware I'm violating my resolution to stop responding to, um, a
certain type of person. I'll try to do better.
... would you answer just a few little questions?
(1)
According to a new Washington Post-Ipsos poll released on
Monday....found that 32 percent of adults report owning guns.
Could you tell us what portion of these gun owners you interviewed to determine how many actually carry a gun.
(2) Did you determine what, if anything, these gun carriers were
afraid of? Fear does very a great deal depending on circumstances you
know.
Or is just another example of Frankie blathering on about a subject
that he knows nothing about trying to impress the readers with his
vast knowledge?
Yet another Tom, as it were. Frank Kunchbrowski?
I'll posit that some large number of firearm owners, with
reasonable prudence, would not say so to a pollster.
On 2/3/2025 9:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2025 7:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/3/2025 12:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Noone "wins" an argument about opinions. Is that what you think
you're doing by arguing that Catrike shouldn't be carrying a gun
despite a Constitutional Amendment giving him the right to do so?
Your opinion appears to be counter to the Constitution and you
believe that you're winning something? Murder rates tend to be lowest
in areas with the most highly rural populations so zsparate people
and you don't have violent confrontations. Gun laws make little to no
diffrence.
I'm just pointing out that almost all people who carry guns do so
because they are afraid. In nearly all cases, they are afraid of
things that never happen. That's phobia.
And I'm aware I'm violating my resolution to stop responding to, um, a
certain type of person. I'll try to do better.
I post enough current successful defensive use videos to show that risks are real (although situationally more or less) and that preparation and training may well be dispositive /in extremis/.
Fear? OK, perhaps. Rational risk assessment is another equally valid term.
Or is it irrational risk assessment? Hey, let's see what the NRA says!
https://www.mediamatters.org/national-rifle-association/nra-commentary-admits-odds-needing-gun-defend-yourself-are-infinitesimal
On 2/3/2025 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/3/2025 9:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2025 7:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/3/2025 12:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Noone "wins" an argument about opinions. Is that what
you think you're doing by arguing that Catrike shouldn't
be carrying a gun despite a Constitutional Amendment
giving him the right to do so? Your opinion appears to
be counter to the Constitution and you believe that
you're winning something? Murder rates tend to be lowest
in areas with the most highly rural populations so
zsparate people and you don't have violent
confrontations. Gun laws make little to no diffrence.
I'm just pointing out that almost all people who carry
guns do so because they are afraid. In nearly all cases,
they are afraid of things that never happen. That's phobia.
And I'm aware I'm violating my resolution to stop
responding to, um, a certain type of person. I'll try to
do better.
I post enough current successful defensive use videos to
show that risks are real (although situationally more or
less) and that preparation and training may well be
dispositive /in extremis/.
Fear? OK, perhaps. Rational risk assessment is another
equally valid term.
Or is it irrational risk assessment? Hey, let's see what the
NRA says!
https://www.mediamatters.org/national-rifle-association/nra- commentary-admits-odds-needing-gun-defend-yourself-are-
infinitesimal
No disagreement in aggregate. Overall odds are minuscule.
Which is why no one here ever advocated universal 24x7
defensive carry for everyone. I mentioned earlier that
although I habitually carried in certain areas years ago, I
have not found the need in twenty years. As always YMMV.
That said, situational frequency varies greatly. I'm
reasonable certain no city refuse collector successfully
shot his way out of an armed robbery in Poland Ohio. Ever.
https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/video-emerges-of-garbage-collector-shooting-2-armed-robbers-killing-1-in-chicago.html
Similarly people seldom if ever sneak a banned knife onto an
Amtrak train while it's common on NYC MTA trains.
https://apnews.com/article/subway-killing-new-york-self-defense-31e6faaa524c2293f458f8e5344943c1
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:18:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 9:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2025 7:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/3/2025 12:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Noone "wins" an argument about opinions. Is that what you think
you're doing by arguing that Catrike shouldn't be carrying a gun
despite a Constitutional Amendment giving him the right to do so?
Your opinion appears to be counter to the Constitution and you
believe that you're winning something? Murder rates tend to be lowest >>>> in areas with the most highly rural populations so zsparate people
and you don't have violent confrontations. Gun laws make little to no >>>> diffrence.
I'm just pointing out that almost all people who carry guns do so
because they are afraid. In nearly all cases, they are afraid of
things that never happen. That's phobia.
And I'm aware I'm violating my resolution to stop responding to, um, a >>> certain type of person. I'll try to do better.
I post enough current successful defensive use videos to show that risks >> are real (although situationally more or less) and that preparation and
training may well be dispositive /in extremis/.
Fear? OK, perhaps. Rational risk assessment is another equally valid term.
Or is it irrational risk assessment? Hey, let's see what the NRA says!
https://www.mediamatters.org/national-rifle-association/nra-commentary-admits-odds-needing-gun-defend-yourself-are-infinitesimal
Wet another Tommy Trick... changing the subject.
Or does your latest post explain fear and loathing among those who
elect to carrying a gun - a perfectly legal act in most? <many)?
States today.
On 2/4/2025 5:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 2/4/2025 12:48 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 21:18:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 9:04 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2025 7:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/3/2025 12:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Noone "wins" an argument about opinions. Is that what you think
you're doing by arguing that Catrike shouldn't be carrying a gun >>>>>> despite a Constitutional Amendment giving him the right to do so? >>>>>> Your opinion appears to be counter to the Constitution and you
believe that you're winning something? Murder rates tend to be lowest >>>>>> in areas with the most highly rural populations so zsparate people >>>>>> and you don't have violent confrontations. Gun laws make little to no >>>>>> diffrence.
I'm just pointing out that almost all people who carry guns do so
because they are afraid. In nearly all cases, they are afraid of
things that never happen. That's phobia.
And I'm aware I'm violating my resolution to stop responding to, um, a >>>>> certain type of person. I'll try to do better.
I post enough current successful defensive use videos to show that
risks
are real (although situationally more or less) and that preparation and >>>> training may well be dispositive /in extremis/.
Fear? OK, perhaps. Rational risk assessment is another equally valid >>>> term.
Or is it irrational risk assessment? Hey, let's see what the NRA says! >>>
https://www.mediamatters.org/national-rifle-association/nra-
commentary-admits-odds-needing-gun-defend-yourself-are-infinitesimal
Wet another Tommy Trick... changing the subject.
Or does your latest post explain fear and loathing among those who
elect to carrying a gun - a perfectly legal act in most? <many)?
States today.
FFS...
Andrew mentioned he posted numerous examples of guns being used for self defense, Frank responded by posting a link showing the odds for needing
a gun for self defense are "infinitesimal".
It wasn't a change of subject, asshat.
John has trouble following conversations.
On 2/3/2025 9:21 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/2/2025 10:32 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 12:43:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/1/2025 8:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
People do make individual decisions based on their individual
evaluations of their individual circumstances, abilities etc. by their >>>> own individual criteria. And then they live or die by those decisions.
https://cwbchicago.com/2025/01/garbage-collector-shoots-2-armed-
robbers-
outside-elementary-school-killing-1.html
In my personal opinion it is not morally superior do die while being >>>> robbed. YMMV.
A parallel statement that might be made by other people about spiders, >>> snakes, ghosts, enclosed spaces, and dozens of other phobias. Requiring >>> a gun to ride on a quiet bike path where young mothers push kids in
strollers is paranoid. And if I lived somewhere where I needed a gun to >>> fend off armed robbers, I'd move.
Well... Ohio is only 14 from the top of the list in Robbery Rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/232564/robbery-rate-in-the-us-by-
state/
But more perhaps more interesting is how do you know that you " needed
a gun to fend off armed robbers"?
Until you actually do need it?
On one hand, Poland OH is largely bereft of violent crime:
https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Poland-Ohio.html
(compare to nearby Youngstown in 1st chart)
Youngstown has much more crime than Poland. So does Philadelphia,
Cleveland, DC, LA, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, etc etc etc
But I've ridden in all of them, always unarmed. I've ridden in most neighborhoods in Youngstown. The worst crime I ever encountered was to
have a cyclometer swiped, once in Poland Township, once in Ireland.
After 70+ years of such experiences, am I really supposed to pretend
"This could be the day I'll have to blow somebody away to save my life"?
No. At some point, repeatedly fearing something that has never happened crosses over into phobia.
Andrew, you've certainly been here long enough to understand the ancient Usenet recommendation to trim content except what one's responding to.
I notice that practice has faded. We have posts that roll on for screen
after screen after screen, six or seven responses deep. But trimming is
still a good idea. As always, a person can scroll upward to see what was posted. Usenet doesn't forget.
On 2/3/2025 8:51 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Andrew, you've certainly been here long enough to understand the ancient Usenet recommendation to trim content except what one's responding to.
I notice that practice has faded. We have posts that roll on for screen after screen after screen, six or seven responses deep. But trimming is still a good idea. As always, a person can scroll upward to see what was posted. Usenet doesn't forget.
I actually wish Andrew would practice it a bit more. Many time his
responses looks like he's responding to the last point before his
response, when in reality it's in reference to a point a couple of
paragraphs upthread. I wouldn't expect the floriduh dumbass to to
understand anything having to do with (n)etiquette.
No it is good practice, makes posts more readable, I don?t trim enough
mainly by time it?s some monster thread when no one?s trimmed it?s
difficult to make a start frankly!
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> writes:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 20:51:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
[ ... ]
I notice that practice has faded. We have posts that roll on for screen >>after screen after screen, six or seven responses deep. But trimming is >>still a good idea. As always, a person can scroll upward to see what was >>posted. Usenet doesn't forget.
Snipping works well for people who don't have the backbone to reply to
all that the original poster said.
Responding to all that the previous poster said, which is what I assume
you meant, would result in a literally exponential explosion of verbiage. That way lies madness, no one has that sort of time.
Note that your reply was a single sentence that does not attempt to
reply to all that Mr. Krygowski said. Nothing wrong with that, but the sentence refutes itself.
Am 04.02.2025 um 13:59 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On 4 Feb 2025 12:43:35 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 20:51:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 10:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2025 8:54 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Youngstown has much more crime than Poland. So does Philadelphia, >>>>>> Cleveland, DC, LA, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, etc etc etc
But I've ridden in all of them, always unarmed. I've ridden in most >>>>>> neighborhoods in Youngstown. The worst crime I ever encountered was to >>>>>> have a cyclometer swiped, once in Poland Township, once in Ireland. >>>>>>
After 70+ years of such experiences, am I really supposed to pretend >>>>>> "This could be the day I'll have to blow somebody away to save my life"?
No. At some point, repeatedly fearing something that has never
happened crosses over into phobia.
Yes, small but not zero.
p.s. nice snip.
Andrew, you've certainly been here long enough to understand the ancient >>>> Usenet recommendation to trim content except what one's responding to. >>>>
I notice that practice has faded. We have posts that roll on for screen >>>> after screen after screen, six or seven responses deep. But trimming is >>>> still a good idea. As always, a person can scroll upward to see what was >>>> posted. Usenet doesn't forget.
Snipping works well for people who don't have the backbone to reply to >>> all that the original poster said.
No it is good practice, makes posts more readable, I don?t trim enough
mainly by time it?s some monster thread when no one?s trimmed it?s
difficult to make a start frankly!
I'd argue that it's not a good practice when it's done specifically
not to have to reply to, or to take out of context, something in the original post,
I think this is a strawman.
which is so often the case with Krygowski's snippage.
Accusation without proof is libel.
On 2/4/2025 9:28 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 04.02.2025 um 13:59 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On 4 Feb 2025 12:43:35 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 20:51:37 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 10:12 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2025 8:54 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Youngstown has much more crime than Poland. So does Philadelphia, >>>>>>> Cleveland, DC, LA, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, etc etc etc
But I've ridden in all of them, always unarmed. I've ridden in most >>>>>>> neighborhoods in Youngstown. The worst crime I ever encountered >>>>>>> was to
have a cyclometer swiped, once in Poland Township, once in Ireland. >>>>>>>
After 70+ years of such experiences, am I really supposed to pretend >>>>>>> "This could be the day I'll have to blow somebody away to save my >>>>>>> life"?
No. At some point, repeatedly fearing something that has never >>>>>>> happened crosses over into phobia.
Yes, small but not zero.
p.s. nice snip.
Andrew, you've certainly been here long enough to understand the
ancient
Usenet recommendation to trim content except what one's responding to. >>>>>
I notice that practice has faded. We have posts that roll on for
screen
after screen after screen, six or seven responses deep. But
trimming is
still a good idea. As always, a person can scroll upward to see
what was
posted. Usenet doesn't forget.
Snipping works well for people who don't have the backbone to reply to >>>> all that the original poster said.
No it is good practice, makes posts more readable, I don?t trim enough >>> mainly by time it?s some monster thread when no one?s trimmed it?s
difficult to make a start frankly!
I'd argue that it's not a good practice when it's done specifically
not to have to reply to, or to take out of context, something in the
original post,
I think this is a strawman.
indeed. The specific snip under discussion wasn't related to the issue
that frank was responding to.
which is so often the case with Krygowski's snippage.
Accusation without proof is libel.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In another forum, someone postulated that integrated brake & shift
levers (like STI) were the most significant bit of racing technology
ever designed for increasing speed. But that claim met with little
respect. One skeptic noted that there was no great increase in average
race speeds in Paris-Roubaix, Milan-San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Leige-Bastogne-Leige or Giro de Lobardia since about 1960, including
during the era of STI adoption. By contrast, in the years 1930 - 1960 average speeds increased around 30%. (Note: That does not mean that STI
is not tactically beneficial. That's a separate issue.)
On a broader point bit like disks eventually coming to road, MTB had if not integrated brakes and shift levers that one didn?t need to move one?s hands or even shift finger positions, with thumb shifters.
Ie it was being done on a related design so was inevitable just matter of when.
But if not STI, what were the most significant tech developments
regarding bicycle race speeds?
Here?s my list:
Pedals & cranks, as opposed to scooting a ?hobby horse? via feet on the ground.
Probably that one actually I believe that Penny farthings could shift,
where raced around Herne Hill which is old ish Velodrome in East London.
And they certainly could shift probably the biggest jump.
Don?t get me wrong been lots of improvements, some have been speed by
default even in the 90?s MTB didn?t really last long in races be that frame/components etc. be that getting a double puncture, loosing the chain
or something bending/snapping!
That?s certainly come a long way racers now expect their bikes to last the race and even over multiple runs!
Tubular metal frames and wire tension (spoke) wheels.
Large driven wheels, to give a much higher effective ?gear.? (The
Ordinary or Penny Farthing)
I believe that bikes went to cranks as they didn?t have anything drive
chain as such yet.
The ?Safety Bicycle? with a diamond frame and chain drive, getting the rider down lower, to greatly reduce aero drag as well as pitchover on braking.
Pneumatic tires. Hard tired ?safeties? had terrible rolling resistance.
The handlebar stem, invented by the heroic Major Taylor, to allow a much more aero riding position.
Rim brakes, by whatever mechanism, as opposed to spoon brakes acting on
a tire.
Multiple gears, by whatever mechanism.
The derailleur, making multiple gears easy to shift, customizable and
light weight.
Recumbent geometry in some situations. Recumbents seem to be slower
uphill, but tend to be faster on level or downhills
Fully enclosed streamlined aero shells tremendously increased speed, but
at a great reduction in versatility and practicality.
Beyond those, ISTM that most developments have been chasing ever diminishing returns.
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 06:43:37 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/31/2025 10:04 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 10:24:14 -0500, Frank KrygowskiBy that perverted logic, tommy has won every argument hes ever made
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 1/30/2025 5:44 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jan 2025 06:27:08 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2025 19:39:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/27/2025 6:12 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Somebody told him that nobody likes braggarts and liars.
You reflexively cry "liar" anytime I mention having done something you >>>>>> cannot or could never do.
Outside of standing in front of a classroom, something I am loath to >>>>> do, and a few other things where I got better results from doing
something different, what are some of the things you do that I cannot >>>>> do?
There are several people in RBT who have done things I cannot do. Tom >>>>> Kunick builds and rides bikes like I cannot do. Andrew Muzu rides
fixies, runs a bike shop, and rebuilds bikes like I cannot do. Junior >>>>> Carrington rides fixies and races bikes like I cannot do.
You see, unlike you, I am not afraid to admit to where I've been
bettered. It happens regularly to all of us.
There are many people who do things I cannot or could never do.
******** You are not on that list.
One the other hand, you and I both know I've done many things you
haven't done and cannot do.
You used to complain that I didn't provide
documentation. When I did provide documentation, you cried that I was >>>>>> just bragging.
It's not documentation when you make claims about what you can do. >>>>> It's not documentation to relate what someone unknown person said
about you. It's not documentation when you post what you say to your >>>>> imaginary friends.
Do you even understand what documentation is?
At the bottom of this post is some of your bragging. None of it is >>>>> documented.
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond >>>>> to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things >>>>> you do that I cannot or could never do?
Don't take any silence on my part for some sort of surrender. Interpret
it as resolution to not waste as much of my time responding to closed >>>>>> minded, bitter old fools.
heh, heh, heh... A whole lot of projection there from RBT's official >>>>> resident closed minded bitter old fool.
But I'll admit, sometimes I slip up.
Krygowski's undocumented brags:
"Am I qualified to talk about such things? Yes, by virtue of attending >>>>> multiple classes at various levels for each of the programs described >>>>> above. I've also acted as an editorial consultant on two well known >>>>> books dealing with those matters. I've written many articles on those >>>>> and related topics, and had some of them reprinted by publications in >>>>> other states and one other country. I no longer maintain the teaching >>>>> certification, but I've taught many cycling classes, I've written
scripts for and appeared in televised instructional spots, I've been >>>>> interviewed for newspapers and TV on such matters, and I've spoken (by >>>>> request) at city, regional and statewide gatherings."
"I've written articles about dogs vs. bikes, and I
was once quoted on the issue in _Bicycling_ magazine."
"there are others who have examined my
bicycling qualifications, tested me and proclaimed that I do, indeed, >>>>> know what I'm talking about regarding bicycling."
"I've been riding with this club for 35 years now. I've given
workshops and classes on riding, including group riding. I've written >>>>> articles on it for the club newsletter and for other publications. >>>>> I've had other cycling instructors compliment my riding, and say they >>>>> learned and improved by watching me. Just last night, one member took >>>>> me aside and asked me to give tips to a new member who obviously
needed advice on group riding."
"I ride as a competent adult on normal roads. I've taught others to do >>>>> that, and I've been recognized for such work. The remarks I posted >>>>> above were not bragging."
--Frank Krygowski
As I posted above.....
Now go ahead and snip out parts of this post you are unable to respond >>>> to and tell me, *with documentation,* what are some of these things
you do that I cannot or could never do?
??????
..... apparently he's gone back into his bubble
One persistent problem with trolls and other obnoxious Usenet posters is >>> this: When you ignore them, they think they've somehow won.
But he did "win" didn't he? You made a point of accusing him, of
belong a coward for carrying a gun -, I understand perfectly legal
where he lives, and he replied, rather vigorously, and you don't make
that accusation any more.
Trik guy - 1
Frankie - 0
when people stop responding to him.
This fucking idiot still thinks "the ar-15 was a weapon the military
never wanted and never used" even after being shown DARPA and
congressional reports showing the weapon was spec'd by the military who >bought 80,000 copies and used them for several years in vietnam before >changing the designation to M-16. I finally stopped arguing about it >because he simply a willfully ignorant troll who refuses to accept
blatant facts when shown. Does that mean he's right that "the ar-15 was
a weapon the military never wanted and never used" and "won" because I >stopped arguing about it.
No, john, not responding doesn't indicate "win". In this case it
indicates a realization that the argument is with a willfully ignorant >troll who cant live with the fact that he doesn't have the last word.
I agree it is a minor point but the AR-15 as currently manufactured
and sold in the U.S. IS NOT the version carried by the military in
Vietnam. In fact I'm fairly sure that disregarding the very early
versions tested by Army Special Forces, they were all marked"M-16". At
least the one I was issued - very early 1960's - was marked that way.
On Tue, 4 Feb 2025 14:33:07 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/4/2025 2:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
have been puttoing in big miles for 50 years. While Brifters were certainly and improvement it had absolutely no comparison to 28 mm tires. Many of the early carbon fiber bikes were unrideable with high pressure 23 mm tires.
Really? Hadn't noticed.
I was out on my 1988 Kestrel fixie with 22mm tubulars this
morning. Aside from the cold, everything else was fine.
I was out on a 50 mile ride today, too. Temperatures were near 80 and
my neuropathy was almost nonexistant, so I left the cane in it's tube
for the entire ride. I didn't need to shoot anyone, either, so I left
the gun it's tube for the entire ride, too.
And now:
Some of the things Frank Krygowski has apparently learned in the past
three years...
1) Nobody likes braggarts
2) Nobody likes liars
But there are still some things he might benefit by learning:
1) Nobody likes people who complain about everybody else
2) Berating and insulting people simply because they disagree and
choose to do things differently may not be the best way to boost poor
self esteem. One does not boost their self esteem by trying to pull
others down to their level.
3) Needing to have others think highly of you is a poor substitute for thinking highly of yourself.
On 2/4/2025 5:06 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
I asked him to document some of
things and he qiuickly snipped and ran away.
Again: The problem with certain internet trolls is when one stops
responding to them, they pretend they "won."
In the past, as has been noted, when I informally mention some things
I've done, Mr. Tricycle Rider claims they must be false if not
documented. When I've provided documentation, he's claimed my
documentation was bragging.
His jealousy is as obvious as his own lack of accomplishments.
And when I stop responding, it's because it's better to not feed the
trolls.
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 09:36:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/6/2025 6:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Wed, 5 Feb 2025 21:35:25 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
In the past, as has been noted, when I informally mention some things
I've done, Mr. Tricycle Rider claims they must be false if not
documented. When I've provided documentation, he's claimed my
documentation was bragging.
That's another lie. I never claimed they were false and you never
provided documentation.
Memory problems? Or still lying?
I await the "documantation" of your 200 mile ride.
On 6 Feb 2025 16:05:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/5/2025 9:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/4/2025 9:37 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
We've been through all this before, of course. And we all
know you, Andrew, are the master at finding links to truly
rare negative events.
But (again) if a person were to make their life decisions
based on the assumption that rare events would be happening
to them, they'd be living a weird life indeed.
Stay out of houses! People have died in them!
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/pascocounty/man-
hospitalized-serious-condition-car-crash-pasco-
county/67-20eb0233-763f-42de-a617-a5db70dd1c1a
Not all that rare. Stabbings are prevalent on public transit
in large cities.
Yesterday for example:
https://nypost.com/2025/02/05/us-news/bloody-outbreak-of-nyc-subway-crime-leaves-at-least-5-hurt-in-stabbings-slashings-and-a-beating-cops/
And defensive use of blades is regular (from what I see,
about 1 out of 50 or so).
Speaking of rare events, how many of the 400 million
firearms were used in magic spontaneous fatal negligent
discharges in the owner's home? Is it more than the 1 to 3
million defensive use incidents? Curious minds want to know.
While American cities do have higher violent crime rates, New York seems to >have about 4 million folks using Transit per day, which though perhaps a >bit low for the size of New York, London is 24 million per day. Does seem a >bit more car centric from what I can gathered.
But either way that?s a lot of people, who one assumes aren?t expecting to >have to deal with crime.
Roger Merriman
Many, perhaps most people lock their doors even though they don't
really expect any strangers to come around and try to get in.
On 2/4/2025 9:37 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
We've been through all this before, of course. And we all know you,
Andrew, are the master at finding links to truly rare negative events.
But (again) if a person were to make their life decisions based on the assumption that rare events would be happening to them, they'd be living
a weird life indeed.
Stay out of houses! People have died in them! https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/pascocounty/man-hospitalized-serious-condition-car-crash-pasco-county/67-20eb0233-763f-42de-a617-a5db70dd1c1a
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On 6 Feb 2025 16:05:42 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/5/2025 9:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/4/2025 9:37 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
We've been through all this before, of course. And we all
know you, Andrew, are the master at finding links to truly
rare negative events.
But (again) if a person were to make their life decisions
based on the assumption that rare events would be happening
to them, they'd be living a weird life indeed.
Stay out of houses! People have died in them!
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/pascocounty/man-
hospitalized-serious-condition-car-crash-pasco-
county/67-20eb0233-763f-42de-a617-a5db70dd1c1a
Not all that rare. Stabbings are prevalent on public transit
in large cities.
Yesterday for example:
https://nypost.com/2025/02/05/us-news/bloody-outbreak-of-nyc-subway-crime-leaves-at-least-5-hurt-in-stabbings-slashings-and-a-beating-cops/
And defensive use of blades is regular (from what I see,
about 1 out of 50 or so).
Speaking of rare events, how many of the 400 million
firearms were used in magic spontaneous fatal negligent
discharges in the owner's home? Is it more than the 1 to 3
million defensive use incidents? Curious minds want to know.
While American cities do have higher violent crime rates, New York seems to
have about 4 million folks using Transit per day, which though perhaps a >> bit low for the size of New York, London is 24 million per day. Does seem a
bit more car centric from what I can gathered.
But either way that s a lot of people, who one assumes aren t expecting to
have to deal with crime.
Roger Merriman
Many, perhaps most people lock their doors even though they don't
really expect any strangers to come around and try to get in.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
In a similar manner, doors unless proper security doors and frames offer
near zero protection from being forcibly opened, I?ve had to open doors/key safes/medication cabinets none take more than a minute and that?s hardly rushed job.
Did hear last century of one fellow postie who cam upon a bloke slumped by the door, with the home owner, as he?d discovered that a proper security
door and frame is like running into a wall, home owner was mostly amused, police and ambulance on way to collect the foolish lad!
My daughter has been riding more in Chicago's miserable
winter as the trains, even in her upscale neighborhood, are
more dangerous that being run down in a snowy street.
Several murders this year at her nearby train station.
We may soon see some more changes in gun laws. I hope it does not go
towards allowing open carry, which I believe to be a very stupid to
do.
Not unless they want to be disqualified for not holding the line (aka "irregular sprinting" in UCIese)
Does it happen? sure. Sometimes just a relegation:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-down-under-2025/stage-2/results/
"Van Poppel pulled off, first going left to the centre of the road to
let Welsford go to his right and then moving right to close the door on Tobias Lund Andresen (Picnic PostNL), who in reaction had to go further
left, forcing Phil Bauhaus (Bahrain-Victorious) to hit the brakes."
"Van Poppel, who originally crossed the line in tenth place, was
relegated to 118th, the last position in the group he finished with."
Sometimes nearly deadly: https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/fabio-jakobsen-i-looked-like-roadkill-after-tour-of-poland-crash_sto8044873/story.shtml
"Brain contusion. Skull fractured. Nose broken. Palate broken and torn.
Ten teeth gone. Parts of my upper and lower jaws gone. Cuts in my face.
A big cut in my auricle. Broken thumb. Shoulder contusion. Lung
contusion. The nerve of my vocal cord took a blow. "
Not for the squeamish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTiVtNgVJnw
Indeed. Hollywood's western movies and TV shows were mostly bullshit.
There were no fast draw contests, nor fast draw holsters. Wild Bill
Hickock often carried his guns in a sash tied around his waist. He
carried several different guns, but there's no record of him ever
carring a Colt Single Action .45, the gun most often associated with
"cowboy" movies. His most famous guns were 1851 colt Navy .36 caliber
cap and ball.
On 2/4/2025 7:54 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
All I know, actually, I can only assume,So you're _afraid_ the homeless guy might tear your jacket again. And
that if I'd shown a gun to the crepe who attacked me, there'd have
been no further problems between us.
you carry a gun because you're _afraid_.
On 2/4/2025 7:52 PM, John B. wrote:
So, in this case we have Frankie., the coward who is terrified of firearms, disparaging others who may be (lets face it) braver then he.
No, John, I am not and never have been terrified of firearms. I'm not particularly interested in shooting, but I have done a reasonable amount
of target shooting with friends and family. I have kept a gun in the
house, not one used for protection, but used for target shooting. I
don't do that any more because I'm just not that interested.
And I don't see how you can say that a person who refuses to ride a bike without the "protection" of a gun is braver than I am.
People who carry guns for "protection" (a common motive) are almost by definition afraid something will happen. That's not bravery. That's fear.
The point that I believe you are missing is that Frank interprets
everything in terms that he understands. He knows almost nothing about firearms and hates them and thus, I believe, would have to be
terrified in order for him to carry a gun... I would even go a bit
further and say that even if in a dangerious situation would be even
more terrified of the gun and thus would be unlikely to arm himself in
any case.
So, in this case we have Frankie., the coward who is terrified of
firearms, disparaging others who may be (lets face it) braver then he.
Krygowski has claimed that keeping a gun in your house makes it more
likely you'll get shot, and yet he says he's done it, so I guess his
personal experience is evidence that his claim was wrong.
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 09:54:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/3/2025 9:21 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/2/2025 10:32 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 12:43:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 2/1/2025 8:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
People do make individual decisions based on their individual
evaluations of their individual circumstances, abilities etc. by their >>>>> own individual criteria.? And then they live or die by those decisions. >>>>>
https://cwbchicago.com/2025/01/garbage-collector-shoots-2-armed-
robbers-
outside-elementary-school-killing-1.html
In my personal opinion it is not morally superior do die while being >>>>> robbed. YMMV.
A parallel statement that might be made by other people about spiders, >>>> snakes, ghosts, enclosed spaces, and dozens of other phobias. Requiring >>>> a gun to ride on a quiet bike path where young mothers push kids in
strollers is paranoid. And if I lived somewhere where I needed a gun to >>>> fend off armed robbers, I'd move.
Well... Ohio is only 14 from the top of the list in Robbery Rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/232564/robbery-rate-in-the-us-by-
state/
But more perhaps more interesting is how do you know that you " needed >>> a gun to fend off armed robbers"?
Until you actually do need it?
On one hand, Poland OH is largely bereft of violent crime:
https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Poland-Ohio.html
(compare to nearby Youngstown in 1st chart)
Youngstown has much more crime than Poland. So does Philadelphia, >Cleveland, DC, LA, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, etc etc etc
But I've ridden in all of them, always unarmed. I've ridden in most >neighborhoods in Youngstown. The worst crime I ever encountered was to
have a cyclometer swiped, once in Poland Township, once in Ireland.
After 70+ years of such experiences, am I really supposed to pretend
"This could be the day I'll have to blow somebody away to save my life"?
I haven't seen any suggestions as to what you're supposed to do. As
for me, I favor people making their own choices and otherwise minding
their own business.
No. At some point, repeatedly fearing something that has never happened >crosses over into phobia.
That's from a guy who fears he'd get shot by having a gun in his home.
How often has he been shot because of a gun in his home?
On 2/10/2025 6:46 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Please define "temporary lethal".
Obviously, the person is only dead for a little while. :-)
On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 17:46:39 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:know nothing and do not believe the vaste majority who do. It is good that you're a lazy do nothing or you might have died from myocaditis after yoyur shots. Then it would have been the fault of someone else.
On 2/10/2025 5:19 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Wed Feb 5 22:13:25 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/4/2025 9:37 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
We've been through all this before, of course. And we all know you,
Andrew, are the master at finding links to truly rare negative events. >>>
But (again) if a person were to make their life decisions based on the >>> assumption that rare events would be happening to them, they'd be living >>> a weird life indeed.
Stay out of houses! People have died in them!
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/pascocounty/man-hospitalized-serious-condition-car-crash-pasco-county/67-20eb0233-763f-42de-a617-a5db70dd1c1a
Frank, when I said that mRNA vaccines are dangerous you called negetive effects a "truly rare event" But now we know that vvirtually EVERYONE had temporary lethal to permanently catastrophic effects. The problem with you is that you see nothing and
I shouldn't but I just can't help myself.
Please define "temporary lethal".
Something cats suffer from.
8 times.
On Fri, 07 Feb 2025 03:10:43 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2025 09:10:49 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2025 14:59:11 -0500, Catrike Ryder >><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 13:51:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/6/2025 1:46 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 10:46:38 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/6/2025 10:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/5/2025 9:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/4/2025 9:37 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
We've been through all this before, of course. And we all
know you, Andrew, are the master at finding links to truly >>>>>>>>> rare negative events.
But (again) if a person were to make their life decisions
based on the assumption that rare events would be happening >>>>>>>>> to them, they'd be living a weird life indeed.
Stay out of houses! People have died in them!
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/pascocounty/man-
hospitalized-serious-condition-car-crash-pasco-
county/67-20eb0233-763f-42de-a617-a5db70dd1c1a
Not all that rare. Stabbings are prevalent on public transit >>>>>>>> in large cities.
Yesterday for example:
https://nypost.com/2025/02/05/us-news/bloody-outbreak-of-nyc-subway-crime-leaves-at-least-5-hurt-in-stabbings-slashings-and-a-beating-cops/
And defensive use of blades is regular (from what I see,
about 1 out of 50 or so).
Speaking of rare events, how many of the 400 million
firearms were used in magic spontaneous fatal negligent
discharges in the owner's home? Is it more than the 1 to 3
million defensive use incidents? Curious minds want to know. >>>>>>>>
While American cities do have higher violent crime rates, New York seems to
have about 4 million folks using Transit per day, which though perhaps a
bit low for the size of New York, London is 24 million per day. Does seem a
bit more car centric from what I can gathered.
But either way that?s a lot of people, who one assumes aren?t expecting to
have to deal with crime.
Roger Merriman
My daughter has been riding more in Chicago's miserable
winter as the trains, even in her upscale neighborhood, are
more dangerous that being run down in a snowy street.
Several murders this year at her nearby train station.
We may soon see some more changes in gun laws. I hope it does not go >>>>> towards allowing open carry, which I believe to be a very stupid to >>>>> do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Depends, but I agree with you mostly.
If a guy can see your weapon in Chicago, he will steal it
just like telephones and purses.
Exactly... and then he'll likely use it on you. I can understand open >>>carry out in the wild and/or when hunting, but not where there are
lots of people around.
Even Wyatt Earp didn't carry his pistol in a holster at the famous >>"gunfight at the "O.K. Corral". (which didn't happen at the O.K.
corral :-)
Indeed. Hollywood's western movies and TV shows were mostly bullshit.
There were no fast draw contests, nor fast draw holsters. Wild Bill
Hickock often carried his guns in a sash tied around his waist. He
carried several different guns, but there's no record of him ever
carring a Colt Single Action .45, the gun most often associated with >"cowboy" movies. His most famous guns were 1851 colt Navy .36 caliber
cap and ball.
The first Colt single action pistol (cartridge - black powder) was
first used in 1973.
Hickock was killed in 1876. :-)
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 07 Feb 2025 09:10:49 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2025 14:59:11 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 13:51:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/6/2025 1:46 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 10:46:38 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 2/6/2025 10:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/5/2025 9:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/4/2025 9:37 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Had he followed the rules, he'd be dead.
We've been through all this before, of course. And we all
know you, Andrew, are the master at finding links to truly >>>>>>>>> rare negative events.
But (again) if a person were to make their life decisions
based on the assumption that rare events would be happening >>>>>>>>> to them, they'd be living a weird life indeed.
Stay out of houses! People have died in them!
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/pascocounty/man-
hospitalized-serious-condition-car-crash-pasco-
county/67-20eb0233-763f-42de-a617-a5db70dd1c1a
Not all that rare. Stabbings are prevalent on public transit >>>>>>>> in large cities.
Yesterday for example:
https://nypost.com/2025/02/05/us-news/bloody-outbreak-of-nyc-subway-crime-leaves-at-least-5-hurt-in-stabbings-slashings-and-a-beating-cops/
And defensive use of blades is regular (from what I see,
about 1 out of 50 or so).
Speaking of rare events, how many of the 400 million
firearms were used in magic spontaneous fatal negligent
discharges in the owner's home? Is it more than the 1 to 3
million defensive use incidents? Curious minds want to know. >>>>>>>>
While American cities do have higher violent crime rates, New York seems to
have about 4 million folks using Transit per day, which though perhaps a
bit low for the size of New York, London is 24 million per day. Does seem a
bit more car centric from what I can gathered.
But either way that s a lot of people, who one assumes aren t expecting to
have to deal with crime.
Roger Merriman
My daughter has been riding more in Chicago's miserable
winter as the trains, even in her upscale neighborhood, are
more dangerous that being run down in a snowy street.
Several murders this year at her nearby train station.
We may soon see some more changes in gun laws. I hope it does not go >>>>> towards allowing open carry, which I believe to be a very stupid to >>>>> do.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Depends, but I agree with you mostly.
If a guy can see your weapon in Chicago, he will steal it
just like telephones and purses.
Exactly... and then he'll likely use it on you. I can understand open
carry out in the wild and/or when hunting, but not where there are
lots of people around.
Even Wyatt Earp didn't carry his pistol in a holster at the famous
"gunfight at the "O.K. Corral". (which didn't happen at the O.K.
corral :-)
Indeed. Hollywood's western movies and TV shows were mostly bullshit.
There were no fast draw contests, nor fast draw holsters. Wild Bill
Hickock often carried his guns in a sash tied around his waist. He
carried several different guns, but there's no record of him ever
carring a Colt Single Action .45, the gun most often associated with "cowboy" movies. His most famous guns were 1851 colt Navy .36 caliber
cap and ball.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Well yes entertainment is entrainment rather than a documentary!
John has trouble following conversations.
dunno know, ask the dumbass - he's the one who seems to be obsessed with getting the the last word.
Youngstown has much more crime than Poland. So does Philadelphia,
Cleveland, DC, LA, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, etc etc etc
But I've ridden in all of them, always unarmed. I've ridden in most neighborhoods in Youngstown. The worst crime I ever encountered was to
have a cyclometer swiped, once in Poland Township, once in Ireland.
After 70+ years of such experiences, am I really supposed to pretend
"This could be the day I'll have to blow somebody away to save my life"?
No. At some point, repeatedly fearing something that has never happened crosses over into phobia.
He provided documentation many times supporting all his claims, you
ignorant arrogant asshole. And no, no one is going to go back and do
your homework for you showing the links the various articles and
publications which support his claims. That's when you pull out you "bragging" card anyway.
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