https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20241126-cycling-chiefs-seek-wada-ruling-on-carbon-monoxide-use
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20241126-cycling-chiefs-seek-wada-ruling-on-carbon-monoxide-use
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Now set to be banned
https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/the-uci-bans-repeated-inhalation-of-carbon-monoxide-and-introduces-measures/vvSYoDzCDZBPjA1dXNoWq
"The new regulation forbids the possession, outside a medical facility,
of commercially available CO re-breathing systems connected to oxygen
and CO cylinders. This ban applies to all licence-holders, teams and/or bodies subject to the UCI Regulations and to anyone else who might
possess such equipment on behalf of riders or teams."
Also, in the same press release,
"it will be mandatory for all UCI WorldTeams to compete in the three
Grand Tours.....and the five Monuments.....From the remaining events on
the UCI WorldTour calendar, UCI WorldTeams will be able to choose one
event in which they do not compete. "
On Tue Feb 4 11:45:39 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20241126-cycling-chiefs-seek-wada-ruling-on-carbon-monoxide-use
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Now set to be banned
https://www.uci.org/pressrelease/the-uci-bans-repeated-inhalation-of-carbon-monoxide-and-introduces-measures/vvSYoDzCDZBPjA1dXNoWq
"The new regulation forbids the possession, outside a medical facility,
of commercially available CO re-breathing systems connected to oxygen
and CO cylinders. This ban applies to all licence-holders, teams and/or
bodies subject to the UCI Regulations and to anyone else who might
possess such equipment on behalf of riders or teams."
Also, in the same press release,
"it will be mandatory for all UCI WorldTeams to compete in the three
Grand Tours.....and the five Monuments.....From the remaining events on
the UCI WorldTour calendar, UCI WorldTeams will be able to choose one
event in which they do not compete. "
That's a good idea but there's no way of testing for it.
That's a good idea but there's no way of testing for it.
Wrong, as usual.
"CO-oximeter"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO-oximeter> <https://www.google.com/search?q=CO-oximeter&udm=2> <https://www.masimo.com/technology/pulse-co-oximetry/spco/>
A blood test for CO won't detect small concentrations of CO. An
CO-oximeter will work for small CO concentrations with the added bonus
of not requiring a blood draw.
On Tue Feb 4 11:06:57 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
That's a good idea but there's no way of testing for it.
Wrong, as usual.
"CO-oximeter"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO-oximeter>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=CO-oximeter&udm=2>
<https://www.masimo.com/technology/pulse-co-oximetry/spco/>
A blood test for CO won't detect small concentrations of CO. An
CO-oximeter will work for small CO concentrations with the added bonus
of not requiring a blood draw.
CO is used in training because it kills red blood cells. Then you have to have sufficient time for the red blood cells to regenerate because new cells have a slightly higher O2 capacity.
On Tue, 11 Feb 2025 00:11:18 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Feb 4 11:06:57 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
That's a good idea but there's no way of testing for it.
Wrong, as usual.
"CO-oximeter"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO-oximeter>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=CO-oximeter&udm=2>
<https://www.masimo.com/technology/pulse-co-oximetry/spco/>
A blood test for CO won't detect small concentrations of CO. An
CO-oximeter will work for small CO concentrations with the added bonus
of not requiring a blood draw.
CO is used in training because it kills red blood cells. Then you have to have sufficient time for the red blood cells to regenerate because new cells have a slightly higher O2 capacity.
Amazing. In order to increase O2 (oxygen) capacity, you want to kill
the red blood cells that carry the O2 to the muscles. That doesn't
seem very logical.
"A New Method to Improve Running Economy and Maximal Aerobic Power in >Athletes: Endurance Training With Periodic Carbon Monoxide Inhalation" ><https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6562501/> (June 6, 2019)
"Altitude training stimulates erythropoietin hormone (EPO) release and >increases blood hemoglobin (Hb) mass, which may result in improved
oxygen (O2) transport capacity. It was hypothesized in the present
study that periodic inhalation of carbon monoxide (CO) might elicit
similar physiological adaptations compared to altitude training."
In simpler terms, the added CO produces more EPO hormone, which then >increases the blood hemoglobin mass (red blood cells), which carry the
O2 to the muscles. Killing red blood cells would be counter
productive. The articles conclusion also states:
"Acutely, EPO increased sharply post CO inhalation, peaking at 4 h
post inhalation. 4-weeks of training with CO inhalation before
exercise sessions improved tHb and VO2max as well as running economy, >suggesting that moderate CO inhalation could be a new method to
improve the endurance performance in athletes."
In simpler terms, the maximum effect is 4 hrs after inhalation. If
the rider inhales the CO at the start of the race, they have to wait 4
hrs for the peak benefit. For short races, the rider might be able to >estimate when to inhale the CO. For long races, the effect will begin
to wear off after 4 hrs. Matching the point where the CO provides the >maximum benefit, with when to inhale the CO before the race, is going
to be difficult.
Under Results notice:
"HbCO% increased from 0.7 to 4.4% (P < 0.05) after 1 h of CO
inhalation..."
Note the "after 1 h of CO inhalation". Does the rider really need to
inhale CO for 1 hr for this to work? That would look rather
suspicious before a race.
"Carbon monoxide poisoning" ><https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/carbon-monoxide/symptoms-causes/syc-20370642>
"Symptoms related to the nervous system and brain can come on after
recovery from carbon monoxide poisoning. The risk of these is higher
in people who lost consciousness from the carbon monoxide and older
people. Symptoms might include:
Memory loss.
Personality changes.
Movement problems.
Carbon monoxide poisoning can be especially dangerous for people who
are asleep, drugged or drunk. Carbon monoxide can cause brain damage
or death before anyone realizes there's a problem."
Tom. The symptoms listed sound very much like your typical
complaints. Have you been inhaling CO to improve your riding?
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in
bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
These generally aren’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a leisure ride but for a race..
Roger Merriman
On 2/12/2025 1:59 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are >> fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in
bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
These generally aren’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a >> leisure ride but for a race..
Roger Merriman
+1
When I was young the British TT records were all faster than
Olympic/World TT records.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/12/2025 1:59 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are >>> fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in >>>> bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
These generally aren’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a >>> leisure ride but for a race..
Roger Merriman
+1
When I was young the British TT records were all faster than
Olympic/World TT records.
To be fair I don’t think they are UCI? Or maybe that’s just the hill climbers hence the 5KG or less bikes being used!
Roger Merriman
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are >fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in
bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
These generally aren’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a >leisure ride but for a race..
On 12 Feb 2025 19:59:10 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are >> fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in
bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
I skimmed through photos of "UK Time Trials" looking for automobiles: <https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=UK%20time%20trials&udm=2>
I only found one (about half way down the page): <https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/time-trials2.jpg>
<https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/reminiscences/time-trials-1940s-1950s/>
These generally aren’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a >> leisure ride but for a race..
Do they road race bicycles along side automobiles in the UK? That
sounds about as safe as racing bicycles on a crowded US freeway.
On 12 Feb 2025 19:59:10 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are >> fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in
bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
I skimmed through photos of "UK Time Trials" looking for automobiles: <https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=UK%20time%20trials&udm=2>
I only found one (about half way down the page): <https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/time-trials2.jpg>
<https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/reminiscences/time-trials-1940s-1950s/>
These generally arenÂ’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a >> leisure ride but for a race..
Do they road race bicycles along side automobiles in the UK? That
sounds about as safe as racing bicycles on a crowded US freeway.
On 12 Feb 2025 19:59:10 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 04:36:08 -0500, Catrike RyderNo though UK Time Trials are often on large roads, the fastest of them are >> fast because of that ie getting drag from the passing traffic!
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Riding among cars and trucks is likely to cause one to inhale CO.
We were discussing testing for CO inhalation for better performance in
bicycle racing. Bicycle races are normally not conducted in heavy
traffic.
I skimmed through photos of "UK Time Trials" looking for automobiles: <https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=UK%20time%20trials&udm=2>
I only found one (about half way down the page): <https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/time-trials2.jpg>
<https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/reminiscences/time-trials-1940s-1950s/>
These generally aren’t the sort of roads people normally go looking for a >> leisure ride but for a race..
Do they road race bicycles along side automobiles in the UK? That
sounds about as safe as racing bicycles on a crowded US freeway.
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code names
harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time trialing
was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick
summary of the situation and the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a
potential disadvantage of having a bicycle legally defined
as a vehicle: It may make bicyclists in technical violation
of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist
and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole. In at least
some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor proposed
traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to
_motor_ vehicles.
On 2/14/2025 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code names
harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time trialing
was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick
summary of the situation and the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a
potential disadvantage of having a bicycle legally defined
as a vehicle: It may make bicyclists in technical violation
of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist
and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole. In at least
some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor proposed
traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to
_motor_ vehicles.
Illegal? In my youth, TT was widely popular in England and
moreso there than anywhere else!
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2018/09/10/the-surprising-origins-of-time-trials/
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/cms/ctt/history
And back to the earlier point, TT in traffic can result in
some startling times even though riders are sort of honor
(honour) bound not to draft. Which is why English TT times
regularly beat world and Olympic records in those days.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 10:30:37 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code names
harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time trialing
was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick
summary of the situation and the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a
potential disadvantage of having a bicycle legally defined
as a vehicle: It may make bicyclists in technical violation
of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist
and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole. In at least
some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor proposed
traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to
_motor_ vehicles.
Illegal? In my youth, TT was widely popular in England and
moreso there than anywhere else!
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2018/09/10/the-surprising-origins-of-time-trials/
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/cms/ctt/history
And back to the earlier point, TT in traffic can result in
some startling times even though riders are sort of honor
(honour) bound not to draft. Which is why English TT times
regularly beat world and Olympic records in those days.
Are time trial racers also honor bound not to use performance
enhancing drugs and gasses? The discussion is about using carbon
monoxide to temporarily increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the
racers blood. I would guess(tm) that such things are not worth the
risk.
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code names harking back to >> it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways, depending on the location >> might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time trialing was illegal
in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick summary of the situation and
the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a potential
disadvantage of having a bicycle legally defined as a vehicle: It may
make bicyclists in technical violation of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole.
In at least some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor proposed traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to _motor_ vehicles.
On 2/14/2025 11:20 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 10:30:37 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code names
harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time trialing
was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick
summary of the situation and the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a
potential disadvantage of having a bicycle legally defined
as a vehicle: It may make bicyclists in technical violation
of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist
and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole. In at least
some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor proposed
traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to
_motor_ vehicles.
Illegal? In my youth, TT was widely popular in England and
moreso there than anywhere else!
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2018/09/10/the-surprising-origins-of-time-trials/
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/cms/ctt/history
And back to the earlier point, TT in traffic can result in
some startling times even though riders are sort of honor
(honour) bound not to draft. Which is why English TT times
regularly beat world and Olympic records in those days.
Are time trial racers also honor bound not to use performance
enhancing drugs and gasses? The discussion is about using carbon
monoxide to temporarily increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the
racers blood. I would guess(tm) that such things are not worth the
risk.
To you.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 11:23:59 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 11:20 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 10:30:37 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code names
harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time trialing
was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick
summary of the situation and the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a
potential disadvantage of having a bicycle legally defined
as a vehicle: It may make bicyclists in technical violation
of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist
and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole. In at least
some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor proposed
traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to
_motor_ vehicles.
Illegal? In my youth, TT was widely popular in England and
moreso there than anywhere else!
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2018/09/10/the-surprising-origins-of-time-trials/
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/cms/ctt/history
And back to the earlier point, TT in traffic can result in
some startling times even though riders are sort of honor
(honour) bound not to draft. Which is why English TT times
regularly beat world and Olympic records in those days.
Are time trial racers also honor bound not to use performance
enhancing drugs and gasses? The discussion is about using carbon
monoxide to temporarily increase the oxygen carrying capacity of the
racers blood. I would guess(tm) that such things are not worth the
risk.
To you.
That's true. I wouldn't consider taking potentially dangerous drugs
and gasses simply to improve my score. However, you're suggesting
that there are racers who do consider it worthwhile. As it should be
obvious by now, I know very little about time trial racing and racers.
I can only say that I'm amazed at what racers will do to win. Thanks
for the info and insights.
On 2/14/2025 5:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 11:23:59 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 11:20 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 10:30:37 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code
names
harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time
trialing
was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give a quick
summary of the situation and the work-arounds.
Today in the U.S. some advocates have pointed out a
potential disadvantage of having a bicycle legally
defined
as a vehicle: It may make bicyclists in technical
violation
of certain anti-racing laws - for example, when a cyclist
and a buddy sprint for the next telephone pole. In at
least
some states, advocacy organizations closely monitor
proposed
traffic laws to ensure that certain ones apply only to
_motor_ vehicles.
Illegal? In my youth, TT was widely popular in England
and
moreso there than anywhere else!
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2018/09/10/the-
surprising-origins-of-time-trials/
https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/cms/ctt/history
And back to the earlier point, TT in traffic can result in
some startling times even though riders are sort of honor
(honour) bound not to draft. Which is why English TT
times
regularly beat world and Olympic records in those days.
Are time trial racers also honor bound not to use
performance
enhancing drugs and gasses? The discussion is about
using carbon
monoxide to temporarily increase the oxygen carrying
capacity of the
racers blood. I would guess(tm) that such things are
not worth the
risk.
To you.
That's true. I wouldn't consider taking potentially
dangerous drugs
and gasses simply to improve my score. However, you're
suggesting
that there are racers who do consider it worthwhile. As
it should be
obvious by now, I know very little about time trial racing
and racers.
I can only say that I'm amazed at what racers will do to
win. Thanks
for the info and insights.
REad up on what the Armstrong USPS/Motorola team was doing
in the 90's/00's. It wasn't just them. During the Armstrong
era doping was so endemic that every other rider on the
podium during Armstrongs win streak had been suspended or
under investigation for doping at one time or another except
for one rider - Fernando EscartÃn
On 2/14/2025 11:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2025 10:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/13/2025 7:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Time Trials no the road isn’t closed they have code
names harking back to
it being illegal, and be large dual carriageways,
depending on the location
might be held earlier in the day, though not always.
Some here might not know about the days when time
trialing was illegal in the UK. Roger might want to give
a quick summary of the situation and the work-arounds...
Illegal? In my youth, TT was widely popular in England
and moreso there than anywhere else!
I read long ago that time trialing was popular in Britain in
part because mass road racing was illegal. A solo rider
going fast was not obviously part of a race, and so would
not be stopped as would a group of riders.
About the legality of road racing: http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2007/10/23/ history-of-british-cycle-racing-part-i-the-ban.html
According to the article, the prohibition was not imposed by
the government, as I had thought. Instead it was imposed
preemptively by the supervising racing organization, which
thought that if they didn't do the prohibition, the
government would impose a worse one.
Note the tactics described in the article to keep the time
trial events inconspicuous.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 12:27:47 |
| Calls: | 10,387 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 14,061 |
| Messages: | 6,416,717 |
