• Road hazard

    From AMuzi@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 16 10:11:50 2025
    https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/dog-dies-after-stepping-on-electrified-manhole-cover-in-river-north-witnesses-say.html

    Yikes! Fortunately we have rubber tires.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sun Feb 16 17:16:02 2025
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/dog-dies-after-stepping-on-electrified-manhole-cover-in-river-north-witnesses-say.html

    Yikes! Fortunately we have rubber tires.

    Would that be enough of gap? Depending on the bike isn’t much of gap
    between rim and road, or electrified manhole cover, probably is though!

    Roger Merriman

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sun Feb 16 10:52:35 2025
    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:11:50 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/dog-dies-after-stepping-on-electrified-manhole-cover-in-river-north-witnesses-say.html

    Yikes! Fortunately we have rubber tires.

    Apparently, electrified manhole covers are a real problem:

    <https://terrafirmaindustries.com.au/metal-manhole-covers-pose-electrocution-risk/>
    "The risk of electrocution occurs when metal manhole covers exist in combination with charged wires (usually related to traffic signals or
    tramways) and water - think rain."

    <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jan/23/michaelbloomberg.usa>
    "Ms Lane died because uninsulated wires are thought to have carried
    the charge above ground with the help of salt used to grit the roads."


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Shadow@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Sun Feb 16 16:32:01 2025
    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:11:50 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/dog-dies-after-stepping-on-electrified-manhole-cover-in-river-north-witnesses-say.html

    Yikes! Fortunately we have rubber tires.

    Even if you used metal tires, the charge would travel up one
    wheel, through the frame then down and out the other wheel IOW the
    path of least resistance.
    Only cases of fatal electrocution I've seen the body closed
    the circuit.
    []'s

    --
    Don't be evil - Google 2004
    We have a new policy - Google 2012
    Google Fuchsia - 2021

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to Shadow on Sun Feb 16 13:31:58 2025
    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:11:50 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/dog-dies-after-stepping-on-electrified-manhole-cover-in-river-north-witnesses-say.html

    Yikes! Fortunately we have rubber tires.

    Even if you used metal tires, the charge would travel up one
    wheel, through the frame then down and out the other wheel IOW the
    path of least resistance.
    Only cases of fatal electrocution I've seen the body closed
    the circuit.
    []'s


    The photo shows ice and slush on the road. Add a little road salt and
    we have a tolerable conductor. US Street lighting can be 120, 208,
    240, 277 and 480 volts. All of them can kill someone if the voltage
    goes from arm to arm (through the heart). Less so at the lower
    voltages or from arm to leg.

    I have personally not seen anyone die or seriously injured by
    electrocution via underground power cables. Everything I've read or
    hear is from 2nd or 3rd party anecdotal experiences. The closest I've
    seen is when someone tried to steal the copper power wiring in my
    father's factory electrical panel and forgot to turn off the power.
    RIP. I'm sure electrocution by manhole cover can happen, but unless
    the wiring and insulation are seriously compromised, the chances of it happening is very small.

    <https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/>
    Looks like the National Safety Council lumps electrocution together
    with some odd things that are not really related to electrocution: Electrocution, radiation, extreme temperatures, and pressure
    1 in 14,383 (or 0.007%)


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 16 16:47:45 2025
    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:31:58 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:01 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:

    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:11:50 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    https://cwbchicago.com/2025/02/dog-dies-after-stepping-on-electrified-manhole-cover-in-river-north-witnesses-say.html

    Yikes! Fortunately we have rubber tires.

    Even if you used metal tires, the charge would travel up one
    wheel, through the frame then down and out the other wheel IOW the
    path of least resistance.
    Only cases of fatal electrocution I've seen the body closed
    the circuit.
    []'s


    The photo shows ice and slush on the road. Add a little road salt and
    we have a tolerable conductor. US Street lighting can be 120, 208,
    240, 277 and 480 volts. All of them can kill someone if the voltage
    goes from arm to arm (through the heart). Less so at the lower
    voltages or from arm to leg.

    I have personally not seen anyone die or seriously injured by
    electrocution via underground power cables. Everything I've read or
    hear is from 2nd or 3rd party anecdotal experiences. The closest I've
    seen is when someone tried to steal the copper power wiring in my
    father's factory electrical panel and forgot to turn off the power.
    RIP. I'm sure electrocution by manhole cover can happen, but unless
    the wiring and insulation are seriously compromised, the chances of it >happening is very small.

    <https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/>
    Looks like the National Safety Council lumps electrocution together
    with some odd things that are not really related to electrocution: >Electrocution, radiation, extreme temperatures, and pressure
    1 in 14,383 (or 0.007%)

    Many overhead distribution voltages are (or used to be, anyway) 12KV,
    and those can come down in storms and accidents too. Fotunately,
    they're pretty much protected with fuses and automatic switching, but
    they don't always work.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Mon Feb 17 04:11:54 2025
    On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 22:33:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 2/16/2025 4:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

    I have personally not seen anyone die or seriously injured by
    electrocution via underground power cables. Everything I've read or
    hear is from 2nd or 3rd party anecdotal experiences. The closest I've
    seen is when someone tried to steal the copper power wiring in my
    father's factory electrical panel and forgot to turn off the power.
    RIP. I'm sure electrocution by manhole cover can happen, but unless
    the wiring and insulation are seriously compromised, the chances of it
    happening is very small.

    When I worked as a plant engineer we had a plant electrician who was >electrocuted as he worked in a panel. It's too long ago for my clear
    recall, but ISTR he was working on 480 Volts with equipment not designed
    for that job.


    <https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/>
    Looks like the National Safety Council lumps electrocution together
    with some odd things that are not really related to electrocution:
    Electrocution, radiation, extreme temperatures, and pressure
    1 in 14,383 (or 0.007%)

    While it's not the intent of the site, note the comparisons between >bicycling, walking and motoring (and other things) in lifetime odds of
    death:

    Motor vehicle crash: 1 in 95 (almost as dangerous as death from falling,
    1 in 91) Much worse than bicycling.

    Pedestrian travel, 1 in 471, much worse than bicycling.

    Heck, even choking on food is worse than bicycling at 1 in 2461

    Odds of death from bicycling: only 1 in 3102.

    Bicycling is _not_ very dangerous. It does us no good to pretend it is.

    "Bicycling is _not_ very dangerous. It does us no good to pretend it
    is."

    Danger, is of course, a subjective evaluation, but even so, bicycling
    is probably more dangerous than standing in front of a classroom or
    playing a tonette. Bicycling is probably the riskiest thing that
    Krygowski has ever done.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 13 10:41:46 2025
    With video:

    https://nypost.com/2025/03/13/us-news/texas-tech-university-cancels-classes-after-neon-green-explosion-in-manhole/

    Green flame by the way is very 'eco' !
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Mar 13 10:43:42 2025
    On 3/13/2025 10:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    With video:

    https://nypost.com/2025/03/13/us-news/texas-tech-university- cancels-classes-after-neon-green-explosion-in-manhole/

    Green flame by the way is very 'eco' !


    Sorry here's the video link (15 seconds)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKwpM08dpVM

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Mark J cleary@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Mar 13 13:42:26 2025
    On 3/13/2025 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 3/13/2025 10:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    With video:

    https://nypost.com/2025/03/13/us-news/texas-tech-university- cancels-
    classes-after-neon-green-explosion-in-manhole/

    Green flame by the way is very 'eco' !


    Sorry here's the video link (15 seconds)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKwpM08dpVM


    Wonder what the lawsuit will ask for and get this is crazy but clearly I
    can see it from some in the field.

    --
    Deacon Mark

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  • From Mark J cleary@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Mar 13 13:41:29 2025
    On 3/13/2025 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 3/13/2025 10:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    With video:

    https://nypost.com/2025/03/13/us-news/texas-tech-university- cancels-
    classes-after-neon-green-explosion-in-manhole/

    Green flame by the way is very 'eco' !


    Sorry here's the video link (15 seconds)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKwpM08dpVM

    What caused this sewer gas?

    --
    Deacon Mark

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to mcleary08@comcast.net on Thu Mar 13 14:25:44 2025
    On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 13:41:29 -0500, Mark J cleary
    <mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:

    On 3/13/2025 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 3/13/2025 10:41 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    With video:

    https://nypost.com/2025/03/13/us-news/texas-tech-university- cancels-
    classes-after-neon-green-explosion-in-manhole/

    Green flame by the way is very 'eco' !


    Sorry here's the video link (15 seconds)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKwpM08dpVM

    What caused this sewer gas?

    Copper or possibly barium: <https://www.google.com/search?q=barium%20chloride%20flame&num=10&client=firefox-b-1-d&udm=2>
    <https://www.google.com/search?q=copper%20chloride%20flame&num=10&client=firefox-b-1-d&udm=2>
    Neither is flammable, but both will produce green/yellow flames when
    heated. My guess(tm) is sewer gas or natural gas (methane) caught
    fire in the manhole which produces a red/yellow flame. Hot copper
    wires in the manhole provided the green/yellow colors. For example: <https://www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/managing-manhole-fires/>





    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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