• The Law is a ass

    From AMuzi@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 19 20:38:41 2025
    Not only in Dickens. In Illinois case law too:


    https://chi.streetsblog.org/2025/02/18/a-new-illinois-bill-would-assert-that-people-on-bikes-are-intended-user-of-every-roadway-in-the-state-where-its-legal-to-ride

    With any luck, soon to be rectified.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Thu Feb 20 09:19:01 2025
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Not only in Dickens. In Illinois case law too:


    https://chi.streetsblog.org/2025/02/18/a-new-illinois-bill-would-assert-that-people-on-bikes-are-intended-user-of-every-roadway-in-the-state-where-its-legal-to-ride

    With any luck, soon to be rectified.

    I’d assume knowing a touch about US Motordom that this was intended rather than unexpected outcome, after all the aim was to have a car dependent
    society!

    Roger Merriman

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  • From Roger Merriman@21:1/5 to John B. on Thu Feb 20 12:26:38 2025
    John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 20 Feb 2025 09:19:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Not only in Dickens. In Illinois case law too:


    https://chi.streetsblog.org/2025/02/18/a-new-illinois-bill-would-assert-that-people-on-bikes-are-intended-user-of-every-roadway-in-the-state-where-its-legal-to-ride

    With any luck, soon to be rectified.

    I’d assume knowing a touch about US Motordom that this was intended rather >> than unexpected outcome, after all the aim was to have a car dependent
    society!

    Roger Merriman

    The wording says "bicycles are to be considered "intended users" of
    any roadway where riding is allowed, thereby allowing them to seek
    damages."


    Yes that’s the intended change, vs being permitted to use but not an
    intended user of the road!

    Which really is a very US or car centric thing!

    Note that UK which is far from perfect with cycling and has plenty of car centric infrastructure, but the Law is much more liberal so a Mandatory
    bike lane for example is for motorists ie its Mandatory for them to not
    cross over the solid white line.

    Cyclists can use or not use it as far as the law applies, some very unwise police officer attempting to suggest otherwise resulted in a Court case to prove the law in the 1980’s maybe?

    Roger Merriman

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  • From Rolf Mantel@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 20 15:53:38 2025
    Am 20.02.2025 um 14:16 schrieb John B.:
    On 20 Feb 2025 12:26:38 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 20 Feb 2025 09:19:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Not only in Dickens. In Illinois case law too:


    https://chi.streetsblog.org/2025/02/18/a-new-illinois-bill-would-assert-that-people-on-bikes-are-intended-user-of-every-roadway-in-the-state-where-its-legal-to-ride

    With any luck, soon to be rectified.

    I?d assume knowing a touch about US Motordom that this was intended rather >>>> than unexpected outcome, after all the aim was to have a car dependent >>>> society!

    Roger Merriman

    The wording says "bicycles are to be considered "intended users" of
    any roadway where riding is allowed, thereby allowing them to seek
    damages."


    Yes that’s the intended change, vs being permitted to use but not an
    intended user of the road!

    Which really is a very US or car centric thing!

    Note that UK which is far from perfect with cycling and has plenty of car
    centric infrastructure, but the Law is much more liberal so a Mandatory
    bike lane for example is for motorists ie its Mandatory for them to not
    cross over the solid white line.

    Cyclists can use or not use it as far as the law applies, some very unwise >> police officer attempting to suggest otherwise resulted in a Court case to >> prove the law in the 1980’s maybe?

    From the words used in that single reference, in the U.S. if the road
    is being repaired or maintained and you ride a bicycle into the area
    being worked on and crash that is the fault of the workers, State,
    County, Whatever and if there is a big hole in the road and you hit it
    and crash, again it is someone else's fault.

    A rather large change from I lived there ,when if a sign had been
    erected, "Road Work In Progress" you were expected to have enough
    sense to use care so you wouldn't fall and if you didn't then you were
    at fault.

    I think you mis-interpret the reference which only considered situations
    where no "road work in progress" signs existed.
    As of today, apparently in Illinois only car drivers are allowed to
    presume a road is usable unless there's a warning sign.

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 20 18:14:25 2025
    On Thu Feb 20 09:19:01 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Not only in Dickens. In Illinois case law too:


    https://chi.streetsblog.org/2025/02/18/a-new-illinois-bill-would-assert-that-people-on-bikes-are-intended-user-of-every-roadway-in-the-state-where-its-legal-to-ride

    With any luck, soon to be rectified.

    I?d assume knowing a touch about US Motordom that this was intended rather than unexpected outcome, after all the aim was to have a car dependent society!




    No, Roger, it is an unintended outcome from legal arguments by lawyers of wording of road regulations.

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 20 18:18:02 2025
    On Thu Feb 20 12:26:38 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
    John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 20 Feb 2025 09:19:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    Not only in Dickens. In Illinois case law too:


    https://chi.streetsblog.org/2025/02/18/a-new-illinois-bill-would-assert-that-people-on-bikes-are-intended-user-of-every-roadway-in-the-state-where-its-legal-to-ride

    With any luck, soon to be rectified.

    I d assume knowing a touch about US Motordom that this was intended rather
    than unexpected outcome, after all the aim was to have a car dependent
    society!

    Roger Merriman

    The wording says "bicycles are to be considered "intended users" of
    any roadway where riding is allowed, thereby allowing them to seek damages."


    Yes that?s the intended change, vs being permitted to use but not an
    intended user of the road!

    Which really is a very US or car centric thing!

    Note that UK which is far from perfect with cycling and has plenty of car centric infrastructure, but the Law is much more liberal so a Mandatory
    bike lane for example is for motorists ie its Mandatory for them to not
    cross over the solid white line.

    Cyclists can use or not use it as far as the law applies, some very unwise police officer attempting to suggest otherwise resulted in a Court case to prove the law in the 1980?s maybe?




    As you can see, it is a legal argument of the intended meaning of words. Think: CARS are permitted to use the road along with horse drawn wagons and buggies. Any judge that ruled a difference between "intended and permitted" should be swept from his
    office in disgrace.

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