This is very much off time, but sufficiently entertaining to break all
the rules.
Elon Musk made a good choice with the title of Doge, possibly because
the Venetians had also used the same name for their elected leader.
The following article hints on how the Doges were elected and what >limitations on their activities were deemed necessary to discourage >corruption. Eventually Musk will probably need to legitimatize his
position as Doge. This article might be a useful guide.
"How to live like a Doge" ><https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/europe/italy/venice/fdrs_feat_163_7.html>
I especially like the part where the newly elected Doge is expected to
toss (silver) coins, from a silver bucket, into the assembled
multitudes, during the coronation.
Enjoy.
This is very much off time, but sufficiently entertaining to break all
the rules.
Elon Musk made a good choice with the title of Doge, possibly because
the Venetians had also used the same name for their elected leader.
The following article hints on how the Doges were elected and what limitations on their activities were deemed necessary to discourage corruption. Eventually Musk will probably need to legitimatize his
position as Doge. This article might be a useful guide.
"How to live like a Doge" <https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/europe/italy/venice/fdrs_feat_163_7.html>
I especially like the part where the newly elected Doge is expected to
toss (silver) coins, from a silver bucket, into the assembled
multitudes, during the coronation.
Enjoy.
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to
have made good progress. But the problem is many times
larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it
done with little rational analysis other than "We can pull
off cutting this," much of it likely illegal, often
generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with negative
consequences sure to appear.
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good
progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with
little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much
of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >negative consequences sure to appear.
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good
progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with >>little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much
of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >>negative consequences sure to appear.
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the
federal government?
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
You never met anyone who voted for whoever was making Presidential
decisions for the last four years, either. I must have missed where
you complained about that.
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:15:59 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good >>>> progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with >>>little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much >>>of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >>>negative consequences sure to appear.
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the >>federal government?
Perhaps it's because Musk and accomplices are looking in the wrong
places to cut government waste? Oddly, the following report, which
has been released annually by senator Rand Paul (R-KY) isn't
mentioned:
"DOGE Subcommittee’s First Hearing Uncovers Billions Lost to Fraud and >Improper Payments, Launches "War on Waste"" ><https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-doge-subcommittees-first-hearing-uncovers-billions-lost-to-fraud-and-improper-payments-launches-war-on-waste/>
"The Festivus Report 2024" ><https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/FESTIVUS-REPORT-2024.pdf>
I haven't found an up to date list of the "waste" that the Doge has so
far attacked but I suspect that none of the items listed in the 2024
report will be on the list. Why? Because they are all "sacred cows",
"pork barrel", payoffs for political favors, etc.
The 2024 list is itemized on Page 3 and 4 of the report.
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
You didn't buy a Tesla automobile or one of the companies owned by
Elon Musk? ><https://www.madisontrust.com/information-center/visualizations/everything-elon-musk-owns/>
Voting on a ballot with your pen has limited effect. Voting with your >dollars through the products you purchase as a much larger and more
immediate effect.
You never met anyone who voted for whoever was making Presidential >>decisions for the last four years, either. I must have missed where
you complained about that.
You don't like the electoral college and their voting methods? Well,
I don't like it either, but all the solutions I've seen will only make
things worse.
Did you read about the voting system used to select the Italian Doges?
It makes todays US electoral college voting system look comparatively
simple:
"How to live like a Doge" ><https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/europe/italy/venice/fdrs_feat_163_7.html>
On 2/20/2025 3:37 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
3) I'm not Ok with the fact that for four years the elected President
was being instructed on what to do and say.
Then stop imagining it.
On 2/20/2025 3:37 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
3) I'm not Ok with the fact that for four years the
elected President
was being instructed on what to do and say.
Then stop imagining it.
On 2/20/2025 3:19 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2025 3:37 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
3) I'm not Ok with the fact that for four years the
elected President
was being instructed on what to do and say.
Then stop imagining it.
You can agree with the prior administration's policies (we
might well disagree on that but it's a defensible argument).
But it's just not rational to believe Mr Biden initiated
much of anything the past few years.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/biden-white-house-age-function-diminished-3906a839
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/white-house-aides-finally-reveal-who-really-ran-the-country-as-biden-slid-into-mental-incompetence/ar-AA1waZeH
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jill-biden-leads-one-of-lame-duck-husband-s-last-cabinet-meetings-before-hosting-rose-garden-party-without-him/ar-AA1qVns9
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:00:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:15:59 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good >>>>> progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with >>>>little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much >>>>of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >>>>negative consequences sure to appear.
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the >>>federal government?
Perhaps it's because Musk and accomplices are looking in the wrong
places to cut government waste? Oddly, the following report, which
has been released annually by senator Rand Paul (R-KY) isn't
mentioned:
"DOGE Subcommittee’s First Hearing Uncovers Billions Lost to Fraud and >>Improper Payments, Launches "War on Waste"" >><https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-doge-subcommittees-first-hearing-uncovers-billions-lost-to-fraud-and-improper-payments-launches-war-on-waste/>
"The Festivus Report 2024" >><https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/FESTIVUS-REPORT-2024.pdf>
I haven't found an up to date list of the "waste" that the Doge has so
far attacked but I suspect that none of the items listed in the 2024
report will be on the list. Why? Because they are all "sacred cows", >>"pork barrel", payoffs for political favors, etc.
The 2024 list is itemized on Page 3 and 4 of the report.
I read the report and all of it was just a bunch of claims, not even a
tiny bit of data showing what, where, or why. Frankly it seemed very >reminiscent to one of Tom's posts.
Is there anywhere the details are published?
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
You didn't buy a Tesla automobile or one of the companies owned by
Elon Musk? >><https://www.madisontrust.com/information-center/visualizations/everything-elon-musk-owns/>
Voting on a ballot with your pen has limited effect. Voting with your >>dollars through the products you purchase as a much larger and more >>immediate effect.
You never met anyone who voted for whoever was making Presidential >>>decisions for the last four years, either. I must have missed where
you complained about that.
You don't like the electoral college and their voting methods? Well,
I don't like it either, but all the solutions I've seen will only make >>things worse.
Did you read about the voting system used to select the Italian Doges?
It makes todays US electoral college voting system look comparatively >>simple:
"How to live like a Doge" >><https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/europe/italy/venice/fdrs_feat_163_7.html>
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 17:31:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 07:50:29 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:00:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:15:59 -0500, Catrike Ryder >>>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with >>>>>>little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much >>>>>>of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >>>>>>negative consequences sure to appear.
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good >>>>>>> progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date. >>>>>>
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the >>>>>federal government?
Perhaps it's because Musk and accomplices are looking in the wrong >>>>places to cut government waste? Oddly, the following report, which
has been released annually by senator Rand Paul (R-KY) isn't
mentioned:
"DOGE Subcommittee’s First Hearing Uncovers Billions Lost to Fraud and >>>>Improper Payments, Launches "War on Waste"" >>>><https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-doge-subcommittees-first-hearing-uncovers-billions-lost-to-fraud-and-improper-payments-launches-war-on-waste/>
"The Festivus Report 2024" >>>><https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/FESTIVUS-REPORT-2024.pdf> >>>>
I haven't found an up to date list of the "waste" that the Doge has so >>>>far attacked but I suspect that none of the items listed in the 2024 >>>>report will be on the list. Why? Because they are all "sacred cows", >>>>"pork barrel", payoffs for political favors, etc.
The 2024 list is itemized on Page 3 and 4 of the report.
I read the report and all of it was just a bunch of claims, not even a >>>tiny bit of data showing what, where, or why. Frankly it seemed very >>>reminiscent to one of Tom's posts.
Is there anywhere the details are published?
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the
end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those
involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is >>wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they
will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a
formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from
the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent
$10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely
empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to:
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii)
which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example,
I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show
Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges
and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public >>Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and >>Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office)
report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings
Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased
Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released:
Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process
for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the
start of an investigation.
Ah, thank you. I guess I should have gone all the way to the bottom
before bitching :(
I'd still like to see more details but I suspect that they aren't
available. Or don't want to be made available.
Re ships, I noted a long time ago that the cost of building ships in
the U.S. was multiple times greater then the cost in China. The
results is, of course, that China is the largest shipbuilder in the
world while the U.S. isn't even on the list.
On 2/20/2025 5:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2025 3:19 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2025 3:37 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
3) I'm not Ok with the fact that for four years the elected President
was being instructed on what to do and say.
Then stop imagining it.
You can agree with the prior administration's policies (we might well
disagree on that but it's a defensible argument).
But it's just not rational to believe Mr Biden initiated much of
anything the past few years.
Which is very reminiscent of the reports of Reagan falling asleep in
high level meetings in his second term. Or Trump's support staff having
to think of ways of condensing and jazzing up information so he would
give it more attention than his hamburger.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:23:58 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 17:31:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 07:50:29 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:00:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>>wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:15:59 -0500, Catrike Ryder >>>>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski >>>>>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with >>>>>>>little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much >>>>>>>of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >>>>>>>negative consequences sure to appear.
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good
progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date. >>>>>>>
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the >>>>>>federal government?
Perhaps it's because Musk and accomplices are looking in the wrong >>>>>places to cut government waste? Oddly, the following report, which >>>>>has been released annually by senator Rand Paul (R-KY) isn't >>>>>mentioned:
"DOGE Subcommittee’s First Hearing Uncovers Billions Lost to Fraud and >>>>>Improper Payments, Launches "War on Waste"" >>>>><https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-doge-subcommittees-first-hearing-uncovers-billions-lost-to-fraud-and-improper-payments-launches-war-on-waste/>
"The Festivus Report 2024" >>>>><https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/FESTIVUS-REPORT-2024.pdf> >>>>>
I haven't found an up to date list of the "waste" that the Doge has so >>>>>far attacked but I suspect that none of the items listed in the 2024 >>>>>report will be on the list. Why? Because they are all "sacred cows", >>>>>"pork barrel", payoffs for political favors, etc.
The 2024 list is itemized on Page 3 and 4 of the report.
I read the report and all of it was just a bunch of claims, not even a >>>>tiny bit of data showing what, where, or why. Frankly it seemed very >>>>reminiscent to one of Tom's posts.
Is there anywhere the details are published?
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the
end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those >>>involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is >>>wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they
will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a >>>formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from >>>the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent
$10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely
empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to:
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii)
which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example,
I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show >>>Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges
and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public >>>Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and >>>Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office)
report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings
Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased >>>Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released:
Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process >>>for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the
start of an investigation.
Ah, thank you. I guess I should have gone all the way to the bottom
before bitching :(
Not a problem. The footnotes were in unreadable tiny fonts and are
well hidden. They all point to referring reports and not to the
actual government investigation reports. One might suspect that the
sources and data were not intended to be read by the old and wise.
I'd still like to see more details but I suspect that they aren't >>available. Or don't want to be made available.
"Data is free. You have to pay (or work) to obtain information."
I contrived that aphorism perhaps 40 years ago. It's quite
appropriate for most complaints about lack of data or information.
Re ships, I noted a long time ago that the cost of building ships in
the U.S. was multiple times greater then the cost in China. The
results is, of course, that China is the largest shipbuilder in the
world while the U.S. isn't even on the list.
Very true. However, the Bureau of Equalization (borrowed from Atlas
Shrugged by Ayn Rand): ><https://www.cato.org/blog/national-equalization-opportunity-board>
is tirelessly working on making everything and everyone equal. The
high and the mighty will inevitably fall from their lofty perches,
while the weak and powerless will replace them, uplifted by endless >subsidies, grants, programs, projects, etc.
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 22:49:56 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 5:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/20/2025 3:19 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/20/2025 3:37 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
3) I'm not Ok with the fact that for four years the elected President >>>>> was being instructed on what to do and say.
Then stop imagining it.
You can agree with the prior administration's policies (we might well
disagree on that but it's a defensible argument).
But it's just not rational to believe Mr Biden initiated much of
anything the past few years.
Which is very reminiscent of the reports of Reagan falling asleep in
high level meetings in his second term. Or Trump's support staff having
to think of ways of condensing and jazzing up information so he would
give it more attention than his hamburger.
<LOL> You poor thing. You really do believe everything you're told
by your masters, don't you?
Perhaps "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than
others”
As George Orwell writes
John B.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 13:58:17 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
Perhaps "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than >>others”
As George Orwell writes
John B.
Animal Farm is a satire on the characters from the 1917 Russian
revolution. ><https://www.murrieta.k12.ca.us/cms/lib5/CA01000508/Centricity/Domain/1814/animal%20farm%20communism%20comparison.pdf>
There are also other Orwellian terms and phrases such as the various
1984 NewSpeak dictionaries: ><https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1984_-_newspeak_dictionary.pdf>
<https://www.orwell.org/dictionary/>
More of the same:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=newspeak%20dictionary>
Newspeak should work well in rec.bicycles.tech. ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak>
"...Newspeak, which is a controlled language of simplified grammar and >limited vocabulary designed to limit a person's ability for critical >thinking."
Hmmmm... Perhaps I'm wrong. Most of the discussions in RBT are
highly critical of literally everything. The remaining discussions
seem to involve little thought.
I'm gone for a hike in the park while I contrive some Newspeak terms >appropriate to this group.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 13:58:17 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
Perhaps "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than
others”
As George Orwell writes
John B.
Animal Farm is a satire on the characters from the 1917 Russian
revolution. <https://www.murrieta.k12.ca.us/cms/lib5/CA01000508/Centricity/Domain/1814/animal%20farm%20communism%20comparison.pdf>
There are also other Orwellian terms and phrases such as the various
1984 NewSpeak dictionaries: <https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1984_-_newspeak_dictionary.pdf>
<https://www.orwell.org/dictionary/>
More of the same:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=newspeak%20dictionary>
Newspeak should work well in rec.bicycles.tech. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak>
"...Newspeak, which is a controlled language of simplified grammar and limited vocabulary designed to limit a person's ability for critical thinking."
Hmmmm... Perhaps I'm wrong. Most of the discussions in RBT are
highly critical of literally everything. The remaining discussions
seem to involve little thought.
I'm gone for a hike in the park while I contrive some Newspeak terms appropriate to this group.
This is very much off time, but sufficiently entertaining to break all
the rules.
Elon Musk made a good choice with the title of Doge, possibly because
the Venetians had also used the same name for their elected leader.
The following article hints on how the Doges were elected and what limitations on their activities were deemed necessary to discourage corruption. Eventually Musk will probably need to legitimatize his
position as Doge. This article might be a useful guide.
"How to live like a Doge" <https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/fodors/top/features/travel/destinations/europe/italy/venice/fdrs_feat_163_7.html>
I especially like the part where the newly elected Doge is expected to
toss (silver) coins, from a silver bucket, into the assembled
multitudes, during the coronation.
Enjoy.
On Thu Feb 20 12:15:59 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good >> >> progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with
little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much
of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with
negative consequences sure to appear.
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the
federal government?
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
You never met anyone who voted for whoever was making Presidential
decisions for the last four years, either. I must have missed where
you complained about that.
Frank isn't reaolly against getting rid of waste and corruption. But it had to be done by Obama and Biden who were the major sources of waste and corruption.
But he couldn't admit that because he voted the waste and corruption in.
On Thu Feb 20 12:15:59 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good >>>> progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date.
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with
little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much >>> of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with >>> negative consequences sure to appear.
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the
federal government?
And I haven't met anyone who voted for Musk.
You never met anyone who voted for whoever was making Presidential
decisions for the last four years, either. I must have missed where
you complained about that.
Frank isn't reaolly against getting rid of waste and corruption. But it had to be done by Obama and Biden who were the major sources of waste and corruption.
But he couldn't admit that because he voted the waste and corruption in.
On 2/21/2025 2:55 PM, cyclintom wrote:
With any luck, next time Frank goes out for a ride he will be involvedin a drive by shooting.
Omigosh, I never thought about that! Now I'm terrified! What sort of gun
do you carry on rides? Maybe I'll get the same one!
HAHAHAHA!
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 11:42:00 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 2/21/2025 10:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 13:58:17 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)
Perhaps "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than
others”
As George Orwell writes
John B.
Animal Farm is a satire on the characters from the 1917 Russian
revolution.
<https://www.murrieta.k12.ca.us/cms/lib5/CA01000508/Centricity/Domain/1814/animal%20farm%20communism%20comparison.pdf>
There are also other Orwellian terms and phrases such as the various
1984 NewSpeak dictionaries:
<https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1984_-_newspeak_dictionary.pdf>
<https://www.orwell.org/dictionary/>
More of the same:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=newspeak%20dictionary>
Newspeak should work well in rec.bicycles.tech.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak>
"...Newspeak, which is a controlled language of simplified grammar and
limited vocabulary designed to limit a person's ability for critical
thinking."
Hmmmm... Perhaps I'm wrong. Most of the discussions in RBT are
highly critical of literally everything. The remaining discussions
seem to involve little thought.
I'm gone for a hike in the park while I contrive some Newspeak terms
appropriate to this group.
As the quotable Felicia Middlebrooks always said, "A mix of
sun and rain. Just like life itself."
And therein lies the beauty and wisdom of our beloved 1st
Amendment. Unique in all the world.
Which came about because of a loud mouth, radical, minority.
Did it not?
On Thu Feb 20 17:31:29 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the
end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those
involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is
wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they
will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a
formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from
the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent
$10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely
empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to:
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii)
which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example,
I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show
Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges
and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public
Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and
Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office)
report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings
Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased
Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released:
Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process
for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the
start of an investigation.
Wow! That is so intelligent, I just don't hardly knowb what to say but to ask you who voted for Jill Biden, Christopher Wray, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Health and Human Services,etc. Where on my election form were these people so that I could pick and choose?
On a good day you can't find one original thing to say so you repeat the word of idiots.
Is your dementia getting that bad?
Liebermann is scared shitless that they will cut his welfare. He doesn't understand that that comes from the state and it is Newsom that is trying to cut the welfare,
Social security had over 1,000 people having checks sent to them who were over 250 years old.
Jeff doesn't think that is waste and fraud.
On Thu Feb 20 22:18:01 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:23:58 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 17:31:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 07:50:29 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:00:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:15:59 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2025 11:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 2/20/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Good progress? It's been chaotic in the extreme, most of it done with >> >>>>>>little rational analysis other than "We can pull off cutting this," much
So far, Mr Musk, and others including Mr Zeldin, seem to have made good
progress. But the problem is many times larger than results to date. >> >>>>>>
of it likely illegal, often generating "Oops, we didn't mean that," with
negative consequences sure to appear.
Nonsense. Why are you against getting rid of wasteful spending by the >> >>>>>federal government?
Perhaps it's because Musk and accomplices are looking in the wrong
places to cut government waste? Oddly, the following report, which
has been released annually by senator Rand Paul (R-KY) isn't
mentioned:
"DOGE Subcommittee?s First Hearing Uncovers Billions Lost to Fraud and >> >>>>Improper Payments, Launches "War on Waste""
<https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-doge-subcommittees-first-hearing-uncovers-billions-lost-to-fraud-and-improper-payments-launches-war-on-waste/>
"The Festivus Report 2024"
<https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/FESTIVUS-REPORT-2024.pdf>
I haven't found an up to date list of the "waste" that the Doge has so >> >>>>far attacked but I suspect that none of the items listed in the 2024
report will be on the list. Why? Because they are all "sacred cows", >> >>>>"pork barrel", payoffs for political favors, etc.
The 2024 list is itemized on Page 3 and 4 of the report.
I read the report and all of it was just a bunch of claims, not even a
tiny bit of data showing what, where, or why. Frankly it seemed very
reminiscent to one of Tom's posts.
Is there anywhere the details are published?
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the
end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those
involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is
wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they
will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a
formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from
the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent
$10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely
empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to:
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii)
which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example,
I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show
Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges
and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public
Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and
Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office)
report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings
Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased
Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released:
Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process
for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the
start of an investigation.
Ah, thank you. I guess I should have gone all the way to the bottom
before bitching :(
Not a problem. The footnotes were in unreadable tiny fonts and are
well hidden. They all point to referring reports and not to the
actual government investigation reports. One might suspect that the
sources and data were not intended to be read by the old and wise.
I'd still like to see more details but I suspect that they aren't
available. Or don't want to be made available.
"Data is free. You have to pay (or work) to obtain information."
I contrived that aphorism perhaps 40 years ago. It's quite
appropriate for most complaints about lack of data or information.
Re ships, I noted a long time ago that the cost of building ships in
the U.S. was multiple times greater then the cost in China. The
results is, of course, that China is the largest shipbuilder in the
world while the U.S. isn't even on the list.
Very true. However, the Bureau of Equalization (borrowed from Atlas
Shrugged by Ayn Rand):
<https://www.cato.org/blog/national-equalization-opportunity-board>
is tirelessly working on making everything and everyone equal. The
high and the mighty will inevitably fall from their lofty perches,
while the weak and powerless will replace them, uplifted by endless
subsidies, grants, programs, projects, etc.
I read "Atlas Shrugged" in the 6th grade.
Unlike you, I was not impressed.
Apparently you quote people who were once considered quoteable.
You sure use Wikipedia a lot.
What WILL you do after Musk buys that site?
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 21:52:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>etc. Where on my election form were these people so that I could pick and choose?
wrote:
On Thu Feb 20 17:31:29 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the
end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those
involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is
wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they
will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a
formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from
the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent
$10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely
empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to:
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii)
which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example,
I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show
Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges
and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public
Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and
Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office)
report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings
Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased
Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released:
Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process
for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the
start of an investigation.
Wow! That is so intelligent, I just don't hardly knowb what to say but to ask you who voted for Jill Biden, Christopher Wray, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Health and Human Services,
On a good day you can't find one original thing to say so you repeat the word of idiots.
Is your dementia getting that bad?
Wow, so stupid. All that rubbish about voting for government
officials has nothing to do with identifying government spending your
tax dollars in an inappropriate manner. Electing someone to an office
does not guarantee that they will be honest. Try to stay on topic
please.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:19:06 -0500, Catrike Ryderetc. Where on my election form were these people so that I could pick and choose?
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 19:59:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 21:52:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Feb 20 17:31:29 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the
end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those
involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is >>>>> wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they >>>>> will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a >>>>> formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from >>>>> the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent
$10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely
empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to:
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii)
which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example,
I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show
Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges >>>>> and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public >>>>> Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and >>>>> Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office)
report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings
Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased
Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released:
Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process >>>>> for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the
start of an investigation.
Wow! That is so intelligent, I just don't hardly knowb what to say but to ask you who voted for Jill Biden, Christopher Wray, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Health and Human Services,
On a good day you can't find one original thing to say so you repeat the word of idiots.
Is your dementia getting that bad?
Wow, so stupid. All that rubbish about voting for government
officials has nothing to do with identifying government spending your
tax dollars in an inappropriate manner. Electing someone to an office >>>does not guarantee that they will be honest. Try to stay on topic >>>please.
I'm more inclined to believe that electing someone to an office almost >>guarantees that they will not be honest.
Get on your boat and sail across to Cuba. They don't elect the
government there, do they?
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 07:24:36 -0500, Catrike RyderServices, etc. Where on my election form were these people so that I could pick and choose?
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 17:56:56 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:19:06 -0500, Catrike Ryder >>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 19:59:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>>wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 21:52:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Thu Feb 20 17:31:29 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
You'll find some pointers to details in the footnotes listed at the >>>>>>> end of the Fesivus Report 2024.
The report was not intended to be a detailed indictment of those >>>>>>> involved. Such reports are written as an indication that something is >>>>>>> wrong and is worth investigating. If someone accepts the task, they >>>>>>> will provide whatever facts they can find. Eventually, we'll have a >>>>>>> formal investigation, probably by a congressional committee.
There should be something on all the items on internet. Starting from >>>>>>> the top:
"Ghost Towns on the Government's Dime: The federal government spent >>>>>>> $10 billion on maintaining, leasing, and furnishing almost entirely >>>>>>> empty buildings"
Under the first photos is "Source GAO-23-106200" which leads me to: >>>>>>>
There are 3 footnotes for highlighted text at (i), (ii) and (iii) >>>>>>> which can be found among the footnotes at the end. As an example, >>>>>>> I'll follow the beaten path in the first footnote:
(i) Marroni, David. "FEDERAL REAL PROPERTY Preliminary Results Show >>>>>>> Federal Buildings Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges >>>>>>> and Increased Telework." Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public >>>>>>> Buildings, and Emergency Management, Committee on Transportation and >>>>>>> Infrastructure, House of Representatives, July 2023.
That points to an official GAO (government accountability office) >>>>>>> report:
Federal Real Property: Preliminary Results Show Federal Buildings >>>>>>> Remain Underutilized Due to Longstanding Challenges and Increased >>>>>>> Telework GAO-23-106200 Published: Jul 13, 2023. Publicly Released: >>>>>>> Jul 13, 2023.
<https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106200>
which seems quite real to me has considerable detail.
Is that sufficient? All you need to do now is repeat the same process >>>>>>> for every item in the Festivus Report. Eventually, you'll have the >>>>>>> start of an investigation.
Wow! That is so intelligent, I just don't hardly knowb what to say but to ask you who voted for Jill Biden, Christopher Wray, The Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Health and Human
On a good day you can't find one original thing to say so you repeat the word of idiots.
Is your dementia getting that bad?
Wow, so stupid. All that rubbish about voting for government >>>>>officials has nothing to do with identifying government spending your >>>>>tax dollars in an inappropriate manner. Electing someone to an office >>>>>does not guarantee that they will be honest. Try to stay on topic >>>>>please.
I'm more inclined to believe that electing someone to an office almost >>>>guarantees that they will not be honest.
Get on your boat and sail across to Cuba. They don't elect the >>>government there, do they?
1) I don't have the boat any more.
2) Unelected government heads lie too.
3) Government is too collectivist.
4) They'd confiscate my guns
5) Too hard to get good beer and liquor.
I know. Get way up there in one of the western states near the Canada
border where there isn't anything but wasteland and trees and start
your own "country" :-)
On Fri Feb 21 05:09:03 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
Many negotiated requests for more money start with asking for more
than you're willing to settle for. When the request can be satisfied
with other people's money, it's very likely to be granted as is. It's
even more likely if there's some kickback involved.
It was never my pratice to ask for more than a job was worth. This often froze me at the same or less salary than I had been making but the job is what mattered.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:19:06 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm more inclined to believe that electing someone to an office almost >>guarantees that they will not be honest.
Get on your boat and sail across to Cuba. They don't elect the
government there, do they?
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