On 3/21/2025 11:48 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
I still got stopped by the paywall. :-(
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-
tyres-are- faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli.
It's a long and well-written article, whether you agree
with the findings or not.
On 3/21/2025 11:48 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
I still got stopped by the paywall. :-(
--
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-
faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long
and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not.
On 3/21/2025 5:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:SmartBrief
On 3/21/2025 4:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2025 11:48 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
I still got stopped by the paywall. :-(
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-
road- tyres-are- faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-
why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from
Pirelli. It's a long and well-written article, whether
you agree with the findings or not.
email client formatting error. Me too on first try.
I copied and pasted into a text editor then removed the
space after:
are-
and the space after:
why/?
then coped and pasted into Firefox as an unbroken address.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-
tyres-are- faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
Hmm. Still no joy.
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long
and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not.
On 3/21/2025 6:47 PM, AMuzi wrote:SmartBrief
On 3/21/2025 5:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2025 5:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2025 4:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2025 11:48 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
I still got stopped by the paywall. :-(
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm- road- tyres- >>>>>> are- faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres- why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=
SmartBrief
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a
long and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings >>>>>> or not.
email client formatting error. Me too on first try.
I copied and pasted into a text editor then removed the space after:
are-
and the space after:
why/?
then coped and pasted into Firefox as an unbroken address.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road- tyres-are-
faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=
Hmm. Still no joy.
I see that my paste above shows an errant space, like Mr Zen, after:
are-
and after:
why/?
and maybe also after:
9F48-
Still no good. Ah well.
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:48:20 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long
and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not.
The above URL ends with too much tracking information. I trimmed it
off. Now, it works:
<https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/>
Also (seperate issue) notice the greater than and less than symbols
wrapped around the URL. If you don't want the URL mangled by a
browser line length limitation, add them when posting a URL.
On 3/21/2025 11:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:48:20 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long
and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not.
The above URL ends with too much tracking information. I trimmed it
off. Now, it works:
<https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/>
Also (seperate issue) notice the greater than and less than symbols
wrapped around the URL. If you don't want the URL mangled by a
browser line length limitation, add them when posting a URL.
I'm still hitting a paywall. I wonder if I've got some offending cookie >preventing my access.
I'll deal with it later. I'm scheduled up today.
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 11:40:50 -0400, Frank KrygowskiBD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/21/2025 11:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:48:20 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long >>>> and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not.
The above URL ends with too much tracking information. I trimmed it
off. Now, it works:
<https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/>
Also (seperate issue) notice the greater than and less than symbols
wrapped around the URL. If you don't want the URL mangled by a
browser line length limitation, add them when posting a URL.
I'm still hitting a paywall. I wonder if I've got some offending cookie
preventing my access.
I'll deal with it later. I'm scheduled up today.
I think I know what's happening. When you first replied to the
original message, your Mozilla Thunderbird browser took the rather
long URL and word wrapped it into 3 lines of gibberish. When you
retried, the browser is reading the original web server response
instead to getting a fresh copy. You can either flush the web cache
or force a page refresh in your browser. I don't know which browser
you're using so I can't offer a specific procedure. This covers most browsers:
"How to hard refresh your browser and clear your cache" <https://fabricdigital.co.nz/blog/how-to-hard-refresh-your-browser-and-clear-cache>
Note that you want want to ONLY flush the web page cache. If your web browser also offers to also clear history, cookies, site setting,
saved info, saved form info, etc, uncheck everything EXCEPT the web
cache and cached files. Some browsers become confused if the web
cache grows too large.
On 3/22/2025 12:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=SmartBrief
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 11:40:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/21/2025 11:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:48:20 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-
The above URL ends with too much tracking information. I trimmed it
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a long >>>>> and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or not. >>>>
off. Now, it works:
<https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/>
Also (seperate issue) notice the greater than and less than symbols
wrapped around the URL. If you don't want the URL mangled by a
browser line length limitation, add them when posting a URL.
I'm still hitting a paywall. I wonder if I've got some offending cookie
preventing my access.
I'll deal with it later. I'm scheduled up today.
I think I know what's happening. When you first replied to the
original message, your Mozilla Thunderbird browser took the rather
long URL and word wrapped it into 3 lines of gibberish. When you
retried, the browser is reading the original web server response
instead to getting a fresh copy. You can either flush the web cache
or force a page refresh in your browser. I don't know which browser
you're using so I can't offer a specific procedure. This covers most
browsers:
"How to hard refresh your browser and clear your cache"
<https://fabricdigital.co.nz/blog/how-to-hard-refresh-your-browser-and-clear-cache>
Note that you want want to ONLY flush the web page cache. If your web
browser also offers to also clear history, cookies, site setting,
saved info, saved form info, etc, uncheck everything EXCEPT the web
cache and cached files. Some browsers become confused if the web
cache grows too large.
Aside from our comments, I think Mr Slocumb had it with his
tinyurl suggestion.
https://tinyurl.com/5n7sapye
or, without subscriber ID data (I did not get a paywall):
https://tinyurl.com/mu32edpb
They corrected the bugs in Newshosting after my continuous complaints and it works fine.
On 3/22/2025 2:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:SmartBrief
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 12:32:11 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 12:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 11:40:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/21/2025 11:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 11:48:20 -0400, Zen Cycle
<funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
(you'll need this whole link to get past the paywall)
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres- >>>>>>> are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/?
utm_term=3F94C1B0-2336-481F-9F48-87A3862079D2&lrh=1e399577e82ec4e44eb4d33bfcaad09d796bd8e1f682e0f7bf32df00ae420a83&utm_campaign=A8C132A5-BD9C-4737-AC90-016639AFEA3E&utm_medium=email&utm_content=42C26C62-AEF4-4540-8653-17C0A3DB0CE6&utm_source=
You can relax! I was finally able to access it. Deleting cookies from Firefox, at least in the simplest ways, did not help; but putting the
CyclingNews compares the latest 40c offering from Pirelli. It's a >>>>>>> long
and well-written article, whether you agree with the findings or >>>>>>> not.
The above URL ends with too much tracking information. I trimmed it >>>>>> off. Now, it works:
<https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lab-tested-40mm-road-tyres-
are-faster-for-nearly-everyone-and-heres-why/>
Also (seperate issue) notice the greater than and less than symbols >>>>>> wrapped around the URL. If you don't want the URL mangled by a
browser line length limitation, add them when posting a URL.
I'm still hitting a paywall. I wonder if I've got some offending
cookie
preventing my access.
I'll deal with it later. I'm scheduled up today.
I think I know what's happening. When you first replied to the
original message, your Mozilla Thunderbird browser took the rather
long URL and word wrapped it into 3 lines of gibberish. When you
retried, the browser is reading the original web server response
instead to getting a fresh copy. You can either flush the web cache
or force a page refresh in your browser. I don't know which browser
you're using so I can't offer a specific procedure. This covers most >>>> browsers:
"How to hard refresh your browser and clear your cache"
<https://fabricdigital.co.nz/blog/how-to-hard-refresh-your-browser-
and-clear-cache>
Note that you want want to ONLY flush the web page cache. If your web >>>> browser also offers to also clear history, cookies, site setting,
saved info, saved form info, etc, uncheck everything EXCEPT the web
cache and cached files. Some browsers become confused if the web
cache grows too large.
Aside from our comments, I think Mr Slocumb had it with his
tinyurl suggestion.
https://tinyurl.com/5n7sapye
or, without subscriber ID data (I did not get a paywall):
https://tinyurl.com/mu32edpb
Sigh. Now, all the aforementioned URL and short links produce the
paywall message because I had tried to view the page more than 5
times. From the "Join now" box:
"*Read 5 free articles per month without a subscription"
I can usually eliminate that by removing the cyclingnews.com cookies
and resetting the counter. However, that's not working for me in
Firefox. So, I try a different method:
Settings -> Cookies and Site Data -> Manage Data -> and type
"cyclingnews.com" into the search box. It shows 21 cookies belonging
to cyclingnews.com. I punch "Remove all Shown -> Save Changes" and it
doesn't work.
So, I switched to Chrome and again deleted any cyclingnews.com
cookies. The paywall appears again.
I'll play some more later.
URL into Microsoft Edge (which I almost never use) worked well. However,
it did not let me access a linked article on aero testing. I hit the
paywall there.
Overall, I thought it was a very good article. It was directed at
competitive riders, so less competitive types have other priorities, but
the main takeaway seems to be that there's essentially no practical
detriment to using the widest tire one's frame can accommodate. That's assuming different widths are of similar construction - i.e. not super-
thick tread utility tires. The widest tires may be very slightly slower
on smooth pavement, but will be much, much more efficient on super-rough surfaces like cobblestones. It therefore seems wider tires will probably
be better than my 28s in areas like mine where rough roads and patched potholes are quite common. I'd long thought that would be the case.
Quibbles and details: I wish they had specified the air pressure used, better than "the recommended tyre pressure suggested by SRAM's tyre
pressure calculator." Number, please?
I wasn't familiar with their ergometer method of measuring rolling resistance. It sounds good, especially since they do have a human being
whose flesh will be absorbing vibrational energy. That flesh is a big
energy sink, seldom recognized.
"But for now, the only type of drop bar bike that can currently run a
40mm road tyre safely is an endurance bike or a gravel bike." Nope! It
looks to me like my touring bike could fit 50 mm in front, and about 45
mm in the rear. My fenders may limit that somewhat, but I feel very
confident I can run 37 mm.
And I like that the authors are lobbying for road frames with more
clearance. I've been saying the same thing here for year.
"Wider tyres are heavier - This is true, but I'd argue it doesn't
matter." Agreed, for the weight differences described. If they had expressed the tire weigh differences as percentages of bike+rider
weight, that would have been even more clear.
The bit about faster speeds being better on cobbles (if one has the
power to do that) has always made sense to me. As with a single pothole,
I think most of the roughness one feels is due to dropping into the
spaces between cobbles. At higher speeds the tire drops less.
BTW, around here a much more common, analogous surface is a road that's
been "scarfed" - that is, had the old pavement ground away prior to
repaving. On long tours, I've sometimes had to deal with that
unpleasantness for miles.
Again, very good article. Thanks to Zen for calling attention to it.
On 3/24/2025 7:43 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider >>>> tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing >>>> how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure >>>> tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started >>>> were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time >>>> trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the >>>> track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It
seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was
started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby
tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real >>> world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he
was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
I’d suggest this is rather self promotion on his part as ever, wider tyres >> and disks came with the use of CX bikes, and CX bikes sold with the
expectation of being used for commuting or hacking around the woods, than
being used as CX race.
Early turn of the century or so, the Specialised Tricross is one bike I
remember from that time.
Took a while for manufacturers to realise what the bikes were being used
for, and even longer for racers who have resisted wider tyres/discs etc all >> the way.
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to
the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this
forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and >>> saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling >>> resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and
they need to be considered _somewhere_.
For some, it is, with justification.
https://efprocycling.com/tips-recipes/this-is-how-wider-tyres-and-rims-can-make-you-faster/
Roger Merriman
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 7:43 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider >>>>> tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing >>>>> how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure >>>>> tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started >>>>> were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time >>>>> trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the >>>>> track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It >>>>> seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was
started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby >>>> tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real >>>> world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he >>>> was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
I’d suggest this is rather self promotion on his part as ever, wider tyres
and disks came with the use of CX bikes, and CX bikes sold with the
expectation of being used for commuting or hacking around the woods, than >>> being used as CX race.
Early turn of the century or so, the Specialised Tricross is one bike I
remember from that time.
Took a while for manufacturers to realise what the bikes were being used >>> for, and even longer for racers who have resisted wider tyres/discs etc all >>> the way.
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to >>>> the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this
forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and >>>> saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling >>>> resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and >>>> they need to be considered _somewhere_.
For some, it is, with justification.
https://efprocycling.com/tips-recipes/this-is-how-wider-tyres-and-rims-can-make-you-faster/
Even for pro racers comfort ie other factors come into play, ie having a wider tyres even if largely neutral in rolling resistance, not getting so fatigued and so on.
And that’s road, let alone the Gravel races and so on
Roger Merriman
Roger Merriman
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider
tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing
how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure
tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started
were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time
trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the
track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It
seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was
started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he
was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to
the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this
forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and
they need to be considered _somewhere_.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider
tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing >>> how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure
tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started
were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time
trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the
track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It
seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was
started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby
tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real
world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he
was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
I’d suggest this is rather self promotion on his part as ever, wider tyres and disks came with the use of CX bikes, and CX bikes sold with the expectation of being used for commuting or hacking around the woods, than being used as CX race.
Early turn of the century or so, the Specialised Tricross is one bike I remember from that time.
Took a while for manufacturers to realise what the bikes were being used
for, and even longer for racers who have resisted wider tyres/discs etc all the way.
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to
the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this
forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and
saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling
resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and
they need to be considered _somewhere_.
Roger Merriman
On 3/24/2025 8:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 7:43 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider >>>>>> tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing >>>>>> how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure >>>>>> tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started >>>>>> were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time >>>>>> trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the >>>>>> track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It >>>>>> seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was
started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby >>>>> tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real >>>>> world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he >>>>> was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
I’d suggest this is rather self promotion on his part as ever, wider tyres
and disks came with the use of CX bikes, and CX bikes sold with the
expectation of being used for commuting or hacking around the woods, than >>>> being used as CX race.
Early turn of the century or so, the Specialised Tricross is one bike I >>>> remember from that time.
Took a while for manufacturers to realise what the bikes were being used >>>> for, and even longer for racers who have resisted wider tyres/discs etc all
the way.
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to >>>>> the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this
forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and >>>>> saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling >>>>> resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and >>>>> they need to be considered _somewhere_.
For some, it is, with justification.
https://efprocycling.com/tips-recipes/this-is-how-wider-tyres-and-rims-can-make-you-faster/
Even for pro racers comfort ie other factors come into play, ie having a
wider tyres even if largely neutral in rolling resistance, not getting so
fatigued and so on.
And that’s road, let alone the Gravel races and so on
My feeling is that if it makes them faster, they'll put up with the discomfort.
Roger Merriman
Roger Merriman
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 8:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:Probably yes, see the aero positions they train to hold and so on.
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 7:43 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider >>>>>>> tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing
how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure >>>>>>> tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started >>>>>>> were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time >>>>>>> trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the >>>>>>> track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It >>>>>>> seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was
started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby >>>>>> tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real >>>>>> world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he >>>>>> was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
I’d suggest this is rather self promotion on his part as ever, wider tyres
and disks came with the use of CX bikes, and CX bikes sold with the
expectation of being used for commuting or hacking around the woods, than >>>>> being used as CX race.
Early turn of the century or so, the Specialised Tricross is one bike I >>>>> remember from that time.
Took a while for manufacturers to realise what the bikes were being used >>>>> for, and even longer for racers who have resisted wider tyres/discs etc all
the way.
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to >>>>>> the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this >>>>>> forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and >>>>>> saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling >>>>>> resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and >>>>>> they need to be considered _somewhere_.
For some, it is, with justification.
https://efprocycling.com/tips-recipes/this-is-how-wider-tyres-and-rims-can-make-you-faster/
Even for pro racers comfort ie other factors come into play, ie having a >>> wider tyres even if largely neutral in rolling resistance, not getting so >>> fatigued and so on.
And that’s road, let alone the Gravel races and so on
My feeling is that if it makes them faster, they'll put up with the
discomfort.
Though would seem to be that getting fatigue from the discomfort is slower
so unless it’s quite short, comfort is worth considering which is kinda full circle!
On 3/24/2025 8:54 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 8:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:Probably yes, see the aero positions they train to hold and so on.
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 7:43 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 3/22/2025 11:10 PM, zen cycle wrote:
At any rate, yes, there seems to be more and more vindication for wider
tires and the bikes needed to support them as time goes on. It's amazing
how I was brought into the racing world being told skinny high-pressure
tires were the way to go, while older school people back when I started
were pooh poohing the idea. I remember one old codger at the local time
trial in the 1980s saying that skinny tires should only be used on the >>>>>>>> track (he was the last guy to show up at the TT with wooden rims). It >>>>>>>> seems like we should have taken his word back then.
AFAIK, the trend toward accepting the benefits of wider tires was >>>>>>> started by Jan Heine with his coast down tests on outdoor soapbox derby >>>>>>> tracks. He pointed out that those tests were more representative of real
world riding than were the smooth rolling drum tests of the day. And he >>>>>>> was inspired to do the tests by his fascination with French
randonneuring bikes of the '50s and '60s.
I’d suggest this is rather self promotion on his part as ever, wider tyres
and disks came with the use of CX bikes, and CX bikes sold with the >>>>>> expectation of being used for commuting or hacking around the woods, than
being used as CX race.
Early turn of the century or so, the Specialised Tricross is one bike I >>>>>> remember from that time.
Took a while for manufacturers to realise what the bikes were being used >>>>>> for, and even longer for racers who have resisted wider tyres/discs etc all
the way.
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to >>>>>>> the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this >>>>>>> forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum data, and
saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of rolling
resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and >>>>>>> they need to be considered _somewhere_.
For some, it is, with justification.
https://efprocycling.com/tips-recipes/this-is-how-wider-tyres-and-rims-can-make-you-faster/
Even for pro racers comfort ie other factors come into play, ie having a >>>> wider tyres even if largely neutral in rolling resistance, not getting so >>>> fatigued and so on.
And that’s road, let alone the Gravel races and so on
My feeling is that if it makes them faster, they'll put up with the
discomfort.
Though would seem to be that getting fatigue from the discomfort is slower >> so unless it’s quite short, comfort is worth considering which is kinda
full circle!
A decade ago Tony Martin was the worlds preeminent time trialst with 4
world champion titles between 2011 and 2016. He was also know for always willing to try something new. One of his biggest issues was sliding
around on the saddle which he felt robbed him of power and efficiency,
so he took a novel approach - sand paper.
For the 2015 World Championships in Richmond, VA, he glued a sanding
cloth onto his saddle. Unfortunately, he neglected to consider what 53
Km of time trialing on sandpaper would to his shorts, and ultimately his skin.
"But towards the end of the 53.5km course; in the battle between
sandpaper and Martin’s shorts, the sandpaper prevailed."
https://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/tony-martins-sandpaper-bum-wound-a-most-unusual-injury/
A note for the squeamish - there are pictures.
On 3/24/2025 8:12 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 3/24/2025 8:01 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure a racer will try his best to put up with the discomfort. But in general, discomfort lessens a person's capabilities; and I think that's especially true of the discomfort that comes from having one's body
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 3/24/2025 7:43 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I’d argue that speed shouldn’t be anyone’s sole concern.
The speed benefits are usually explained by less energy transmitted to >>>>>> the rider's flesh, where it is lost (and adds discomfort). In this >>>>>> forum, I remember Jobst rather fiercely defending rolling drum
data, and
saying that those energy losses should not be considered part of
rolling
resistance.
That may be a semantic argument. It's clear those losses are real, and >>>>>> they need to be considered _somewhere_.
For some, it is, with justification.
https://efprocycling.com/tips-recipes/this-is-how-wider-tyres-and-
rims-can-make-you-faster/
Even for pro racers comfort ie other factors come into play, ie having a >>> wider tyres even if largely neutral in rolling resistance, not getting so >>> fatigued and so on.
And that’s road, let alone the Gravel races and so on
My feeling is that if it makes them faster, they'll put up with the
discomfort.
vibrated excessively. It's enough of an issue that the U.S. Army has
paid for research on how to reduce that sort of discomfort. From your
link: "I think it’s very important to have a lot of comfort when you
ride 170 kilometers average for 21 days.” (I think a reasonable amount
of comfort is beneficial even on 50 mile rides.)
Also, in the efprocyclng link above, this statement seems not detailed
enough to me: "Rolling resistance is mainly caused by the friction
produced when a wheel rolls over the road."
That sounds like the classic and (I think) simplistic view, that the
lost energy is absorbed entirely by the tire's rubber and fabric. I
think more of what we call "rolling resistance" is energy transmitted
into the body and then lost within the body.
On Sat Mar 22 16:20:32 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:slipped the mind of the smartest man in the world that has never held a real job and lives on welfare?
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 22:10:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They corrected the bugs in Newshosting after my continuous complaints and it works fine.
So why does your subject line continue to produce garbage like this?
From: cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Job
Offer
Nothing has changed. It's version still 3.2.2, the same as what I
downloaded about 1 year ago:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader-download.php>
As usual Lie Bermann believes himself to be the expert on everything. I uoloaded Newshosting 7 years ago and after I got ZERO response on my problems I doiwnloaded a ew version recently. I said this AT THE TIME. So how is it that it seems to have
On Mon, 21 Jul 2025 14:58:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Mar 22 16:20:32 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 22:10:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They corrected the bugs in Newshosting after my continuous complaints and it works fine.
So why does your subject line continue to produce garbage like this?
From: cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Job
Offer
Nothing has changed. It's version still 3.2.2, the same as what I
downloaded about 1 year ago:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader-download.php>
As usual Lie Bermann believes himself to be the expert on everything. I uoloaded Newshosting 7 years ago and after I got ZERO response on my problems I doiwnloaded a ew version recently. I said this AT THE TIME.
So how is it that it seems to have slipped the mind of the smartest man in the world that has never held a real job and lives on welfare?
I thought you might like to know that four (or more) of your previous postings to rec.bicycles.tech are in response to postings from March,
2025, which is 4 months ago. You might want to adjust the time
dilation compensation on your newsreader as it seems that time rather
slowly for you. I suspect this might be due to excessive downhill
cycling speeds, but without Strava data, I can't be sure.
On Mon Jul 21 10:22:05 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:slipped the mind of the smartest man in the world that has never held a real job and lives on welfare?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2025 14:58:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Mar 22 16:20:32 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 22:10:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They corrected the bugs in Newshosting after my continuous complaints and it works fine.
So why does your subject line continue to produce garbage like this?
From: cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Job
Offer
Nothing has changed. It's version still 3.2.2, the same as what I
downloaded about 1 year ago:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader-download.php>
As usual Lie Bermann believes himself to be the expert on everything. I uoloaded Newshosting 7 years ago and after I got ZERO response on my problems I doiwnloaded a ew version recently. I said this AT THE TIME. So how is it that it seems to have
in the middle of an ocean asking why there are latitude and longitude markings on the edges of a chart of open ocean.
I thought you might like to know that four (or more) of your previous
postings to rec.bicycles.tech are in response to postings from March,
2025, which is 4 months ago. You might want to adjust the time
dilation compensation on your newsreader as it seems that time rather
slowly for you. I suspect this might be due to excessive downhill
cycling speeds, but without Strava data, I can't be sure.
Poor little Lie Bermann wants proof of what I say. I guess that's just too bad. Tell us what museum you published that picture of sextant and tables while pretending it was yours? Roger would rather be navigated by you and you would gladly lose a ship
Poor little Lie Bermann wants proof of what I say. I guess that's just too bad. Tell us what museum you published that picture of sextant and tables while pretending it was yours?
On Sat Mar 22 16:20:32 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 22:10:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They corrected the bugs in Newshosting after my continuous complaints and it works fine.
So why does your subject line continue to produce garbage like this?
From: cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Job
Offer
Nothing has changed. It's version still 3.2.2, the same as what I
downloaded about 1 year ago:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader-download.php>
I uoloaded Newshosting 7 years ago and after I got ZERO response on my problems I doiwnloaded a ew version recently. I said this AT THE TIME.
On Tue Jul 22 09:36:50 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:have slipped the mind of the smartest man in the world that has never held a real job and lives on welfare?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2025 18:02:18 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jul 21 10:22:05 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2025 14:58:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Mar 22 16:20:32 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 22:10:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
They corrected the bugs in Newshosting after my continuous complaints and it works fine.
So why does your subject line continue to produce garbage like this? >> >> >>
From: cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Job >> >> >> Offer
Nothing has changed. It's version still 3.2.2, the same as what I
downloaded about 1 year ago:
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader-download.php>
As usual Lie Bermann believes himself to be the expert on everything. I uoloaded Newshosting 7 years ago and after I got ZERO response on my problems I doiwnloaded a ew version recently. I said this AT THE TIME. So how is it that it seems to
ship in the middle of an ocean asking why there are latitude and longitude markings on the edges of a chart of open ocean.
I thought you might like to know that four (or more) of your previous
postings to rec.bicycles.tech are in response to postings from March,
2025, which is 4 months ago. You might want to adjust the time
dilation compensation on your newsreader as it seems that time rather
slowly for you. I suspect this might be due to excessive downhill
cycling speeds, but without Strava data, I can't be sure.
Poor little Lie Bermann wants proof of what I say. I guess that's just too bad. Tell us what museum you published that picture of sextant and tables while pretending it was yours? Roger would rather be navigated by you and you would gladly lose a
Tom. Any reason you didn't disclose your Newshosting.com newsreader?
<https://www.newshosting.com/newsreader-download.php>
Hint: The version number is not in the NNTP header of any article
you've posted.
Nice change of topic. Ok, I'll play your game, this time only.
What manner of proof, that demonstrates I own a Tamaya sextant, would
you consider acceptable? Would you like an autographed photo of me
along with the sextant? Perhaps if I add my Subaru to the photo, you
might consider it authentic? A photo of me sitting on one of my two
remaining bicycles taking a noon shot might be interesting. Maybe a
video showing the sextant in action? (A video will burn quite a bit
of my time and therefore cost you money for me to produce). Of
course, you haven't bothered to provide any evidence of owning or
using a sextant.
However, since I'm sure you won't even bother to reply to this message
(other than another attempt to change the topic), I'll settle for the
answer to my previous comment. Why are you replying to 4 month old
rec.bicycles.tech messages? Can't figure out how to operate your
broken Newshosting.com browser?
Liebermann, WHERE did you get the sexton you claim is yours from and WHY.
You've already proven that you don't understand anything about navigation.
Or was it just the idol curiosity of the world's greatest genius?
Were you working as a ship's navitator?
Maybe you used it to navigatge your old junk car that doesn't have GPS installed?
You stop and take a noon sight?
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