On Mon Mar 24 10:35:26 2025 AMuzi wrote:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20250324-vingegaard-reveals-concussion-from-paris-nice-fall

I will repeat my previous recommendation. I sustained a serious concussion that caused brain injuries severe enough to cause siezures that took 2 years to cause enough consternation in my friends that they got me to a competent neurologist. Most people
don't even know when you're having seizures and the local neurologists I consulted were not competent with serious concussions.

Finally my cop friend and his nurse wife who recognized my seisures as such got my GP to agree to recommend me to a Stanford Professor who knew the symptoms and treatment though it took almost a year to work out the proper medication plan.

The foam used and recommended by an international standard is FAR too rigid to protect you from a concussion. Originally Bell Helmets reasoned that the danger from hitting your head was fracturing your skull. Hitting your head that hard would kill you
from brain damage anyway so while a good theory was not a practical safety limit.

The UCI expanded on this by simply calculating how large a helmet could be without interfearing with your vision and set an international standard for helmets that was in practical terms no better than the older Bell standard.

While Trek owned and financed Bontrager, Keith started thinking of this problem. Most injuries to cyclists that are serious are from concussions. Broaken bones generally heal and scraped skin regrows but brain damage from hitting your head hard while
wearing a helmet that doesn't correctly allow deceleration from a head strike can caused even more damage than I recieved.

I have no memory of discussing my injury with Keith, but perhaps I did since I know him.

In any case, he designed the Wavecell helmet that used a 3D printing process which is designed to reduce the deceleration rate of a head blow from a fall and have used them since he began making them. Disconnected from Trek he is still making them but
they are not of the same quality as the Trek versions.

I do not believe that I have struck my head since my recovery hard enough to cause injury but I certainly have hit my head upon occassion. Wavecell seems to self-heel marks and there are none on my present helmet.

I cannot attest to the efficacy of the Wavecell helmets but if nothing else it is better than the foam plastic which provides essentially no protections from a hard head strike.

So, unless you're Frank who has never hit his head because he rides slow enough to never lose control, anyone that wears a helmet should use this type. Of course Catrike doesn't have to worry since he cannot fall off. Though I suppose a case could be
made that a car could hit him and his head might be involved.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon Mar 24 17:54:27 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:

Keith Bontrager had absolutely nothing to do with the development of the Wavecel Helmet and has nothing to do with the manufacturing of the helmets.

Wavecel was founded by Michael Bottlang, PhD and Dr. Steve Madey.

https://wavecel.com/about-us/

They published a white paper in 2018 describing their research and suggestions for new helmet design.

https://wavecel.com/wp-content/uploads/accidentanalysispublication.pdf

- The abstract states "rotational acceleration and the associated brain injury risk can be significantly reduced by the cellular WAVECEL concept
or a MIPS slip liner."

- The Disclosure states "Some of the authors (MB, SMM) are co-inventors
of CELL technology described in this manuscript, have filed patents, and
have a financial interest in the company that owns this technology.
These authors (MB, SMM) are founders and co-directors of the Legacy Biomechanics Laboratory. Several of the authors (EB, AR, ST, SMM,
MB) are affiliated with the Legacy Health System, which was a partial
funder of this research."

No Bontrager.

Bontragers name is associated with it for the simple reason that Trek
bought the technology and sells bike accessories under the Bontrager trademark. The differences between Trek and Bontrager Wavecel models are mostly aesthetic. Some models run cooler and or lighter than others, but
this isn't exclusive to trek or bontrager. In fact, there are Circuit
and Stavros models for both Trek and Bontrager which are identical
except for color choices.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-helmets/wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

yeah yeah....we know, Kieth told you personally that he designed the
helmet after he talked to you about your injury, right?

Thanks for that piece of information. I might ask why you didn't inform us before when I told everyone about the Wavecel? Was it because you were too busy telling everyone that it was a useless piece of shit? I haven't seen Keith since before I was
injured so he wasn't marketing them under his name at that time.

Now that you found information proving me wrong suddenly they are the cat's pajamas? Or are you still of the opinion that they are a piece of shit because I am recommending them? But since Trek stopped marketing them they are not being marketed. Or
maybe you have some more informtion on the Spector that I cannot find?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon Mar 24 17:54:27 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:

On 3/24/2025 5:20 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Mar 24 10:35:26 2025 AMuzi wrote:

https://www.rfi.fr/en/sports/20250324-vingegaard-reveals-concussion-from-paris-nice-fall

I will repeat my previous recommendation. I sustained a serious concussion that caused brain injuries severe enough to cause siezures that took 2 years to cause enough consternation in my friends that they got me to a competent neurologist. Most

people don't even know when you're having seizures and the local neurologists I consulted were not competent with serious concussions.

Finally my cop friend and his nurse wife who recognized my seisures as such got my GP to agree to recommend me to a Stanford Professor who knew the symptoms and treatment though it took almost a year to work out the proper medication plan.

The foam used and recommended by an international standard is FAR too rigid to protect you from a concussion. Originally Bell Helmets reasoned that the danger from hitting your head was fracturing your skull. Hitting your head that hard would kill

you from brain damage anyway so while a good theory was not a practical safety limit.

The UCI expanded on this by simply calculating how large a helmet could be without interfearing with your vision and set an international standard for helmets that was in practical terms no better than the older Bell standard.

While Trek owned and financed Bontrager, Keith started thinking of this problem. Most injuries to cyclists that are serious are from concussions. Broaken bones generally heal and scraped skin regrows but brain damage from hitting your head hard while

wearing a helmet that doesn't correctly allow deceleration from a head strike can caused even more damage than I recieved.

I have no memory of discussing my injury with Keith, but perhaps I did since I know him.

In any case, he designed the Wavecell helmet that used a 3D printing process which is designed to reduce the deceleration rate of a head blow from a fall and have used them since he began making them. Disconnected from Trek he is still making them

but they are not of the same quality as the Trek versions.

Keith Bontrager had absolutely nothing to do with the development of the Wavecel Helmet and has nothing to do with the manufacturing of the helmets.

Wavecel was founded by Michael Bottlang, PhD and Dr. Steve Madey.

https://wavecel.com/about-us/

They published a white paper in 2018 describing their research and suggestions for new helmet design.

https://wavecel.com/wp-content/uploads/accidentanalysispublication.pdf

- The abstract states "rotational acceleration and the associated brain injury risk can be significantly reduced by the cellular WAVECEL concept
or a MIPS slip liner."

- The Disclosure states "Some of the authors (MB, SMM) are co-inventors
of CELL technology described in this manuscript, have filed patents, and
have a financial interest in the company that owns this technology.
These authors (MB, SMM) are founders and co-directors of the Legacy Biomechanics Laboratory. Several of the authors (EB, AR, ST, SMM,
MB) are affiliated with the Legacy Health System, which was a partial
funder of this research."

No Bontrager.

Bontragers name is associated with it for the simple reason that Trek
bought the technology and sells bike accessories under the Bontrager trademark. The differences between Trek and Bontrager Wavecel models are mostly aesthetic. Some models run cooler and or lighter than others, but
this isn't exclusive to trek or bontrager. In fact, there are Circuit
and Stavros models for both Trek and Bontrager which are identical
except for color choices.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-helmets/wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

yeah yeah....we know, Kieth told you personally that he designed the
helmet after he talked to you about your injury, right?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue Mar 25 06:55:39 2025 zen cycle wrote:

On 3/24/2025 10:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:

On Mon Mar 24 17:54:27 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:

Keith Bontrager had absolutely nothing to do with the development of the >> Wavecel Helmet and has nothing to do with the manufacturing of the helmets.

Wavecel was founded by Michael Bottlang, PhD and Dr. Steve Madey.

https://wavecel.com/about-us/

They published a white paper in 2018 describing their research and
suggestions for new helmet design.

https://wavecel.com/wp-content/uploads/accidentanalysispublication.pdf

- The abstract states "rotational acceleration and the associated brain
injury risk can be significantly reduced by the cellular WAVECEL concept >> or a MIPS slip liner."

- The Disclosure states "Some of the authors (MB, SMM) are co-inventors
of CELL technology described in this manuscript, have filed patents, and >> have a financial interest in the company that owns this technology.
These authors (MB, SMM) are founders and co-directors of the Legacy
Biomechanics Laboratory. Several of the authors (EB, AR, ST, SMM,
MB) are affiliated with the Legacy Health System, which was a partial
funder of this research."

No Bontrager.

Bontragers name is associated with it for the simple reason that Trek
bought the technology and sells bike accessories under the Bontrager
trademark. The differences between Trek and Bontrager Wavecel models are >> mostly aesthetic. Some models run cooler and or lighter than others, but >> this isn't exclusive to trek or bontrager. In fact, there are Circuit
and Stavros models for both Trek and Bontrager which are identical
except for color choices.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-helmets/wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

yeah yeah....we know, Kieth told you personally that he designed the
helmet after he talked to you about your injury, right?

Thanks for that piece of information. I might ask why you didn't inform us before when I told everyone about the Wavecel?

Why would I, dumbass? I have no opinion of the Wavecel, it's your claim
that they were invented by Kieth Bontrager I'm addressing.

Was it because you were too busy telling everyone that it was a useless piece of shit?

I never made any claim even remotely suggesting that.

I haven't seen Keith since before I was injured so he wasn't marketing them under his name at that time.

He still isn't. He never marketed Wavecel helmets. Trek owns the
Bontrager name for marketing purposes. Trek markets them under the Trek
name and the Bontrager name.

Now that you found information proving me wrong suddenly they are the cat's pajamas? Or are you still of the opinion that they are a piece of shit because I am recommending them?

False First Premise: That I ever claimed they were bad. Lab tests show
them to be better, that's all I really know about them, besides the fact
that Kieth Bontrager has nothing to do with them.

But since Trek stopped marketing them they are not being marketed. Or maybe you have some more informtion on the Spector that I cannot find?

Of course you can't find it, you're an idiot.

If you weren't, you'd know all you would need to do is type "trek
wavecel 2025" into your web browser - but no, that's above and beyond
your abilities.

From my link above: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-helmets/wavecel-helmets/c/E399/

Here's one of the seven Trek Wavecel offerings on that page: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-helmets/mountain-bike-helmets/mens-mountain-bike-helmets/trek-rally-wavecel-mountain-bike-helmet/p/45105/?colorCode=purple_black

The current webpage from Trek showing the helmets for sale isn't enough
for you to understand that Trek still markets wavecel helmets?

You appear to be getting early dementia since suddenly you have no opinion of a helmet that you hated when I talked about it in 2020. You couldn't say enough negative about it because I was recommending it. Now that there is photographic evidence that it
does work, you're crying that you neve said anything against them previously. Whine on.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)