• Unreliable data crisis

    From AMuzi@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 25 19:16:30 2025
    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a new
    title by an experienced researcher on the growing
    unreliability of once-trusted published scientific papers.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable

    Reader reviews on that page are great.

    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the sciences
    share this lack of rigor, honesty, reproducibility, etc now.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Wed Mar 26 03:25:32 2025
    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 23:39:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 3/25/2025 8:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a new title by an
    experienced researcher on the growing unreliability of once-trusted
    published scientific papers.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable

    Reader reviews on that page are great.

    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the sciences share this
    lack of rigor, honesty, reproducibility, etc now.

    They may share it to _some_ degree, but I think you tend to greatly
    overstate the problem. The percentage of published papers found to be
    faulty is tiny. Science essentially runs on corroboration. If subsequent >researchers don't find strong evidence of fallacy, data is generally good.

    I'm more disturbed by a relatively recent tendency to say "Ah, science
    is worthless."

    Who has said that? Oh wait, it's just another Krygowski strawman.
    It's what he does when he can't come up with a valid point.

    --
    C'est bon
    Soloman

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to AMuzi on Wed Mar 26 03:47:00 2025
    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 19:16:30 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a new
    title by an experienced researcher on the growing
    unreliability of once-trusted published scientific papers.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable

    Reader reviews on that page are great.

    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the sciences
    share this lack of rigor, honesty, reproducibility, etc now.

    Some people will believe anything they're told by someone with
    important appearing titles.

    https://i.imgflip.com/461w5s.jpg

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Wed Mar 26 07:36:20 2025
    On 3/25/2025 10:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 3/25/2025 8:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a new
    title by an experienced researcher on the growing
    unreliability of once-trusted published scientific papers.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable

    Reader reviews on that page are great.

    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the sciences
    share this lack of rigor, honesty, reproducibility, etc now.

    They may share it to _some_ degree, but I think you tend to
    greatly overstate the problem. The percentage of published
    papers found to be faulty is tiny. Science essentially runs
    on corroboration. If subsequent researchers don't find
    strong evidence of fallacy, data is generally good.

    I'm more disturbed by a relatively recent tendency to say
    "Ah, science is worthless."


    I used to believe that as well. When it was true.

    Retracted published papers were 500 in 2010.
    For 2023 there were 10,000,

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Radey Shouman@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Wed Mar 26 17:20:57 2025
    Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

    On 3/25/2025 8:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a new title by
    an experienced researcher on the growing unreliability of
    once-trusted published scientific papers.
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable
    Reader reviews on that page are great.
    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the sciences share this
    lack of rigor, honesty, reproducibility, etc now.

    They may share it to _some_ degree, but I think you tend to greatly
    overstate the problem. The percentage of published papers found to be
    faulty is tiny. Science essentially runs on corroboration. If
    subsequent researchers don't find strong evidence of fallacy, data is generally good.

    Science essentially runs on money, and monopsony has not been good for
    science.

    Some really high profile papers have been discovered, belatedly, to have
    been garbage, for example:

    https://www.science.org/content/article/researchers-plan-retract-landmark-alzheimers-paper-containing-doctored-images

    This paper was the starting basis for most Alzheimer's research in the
    last two decades, and several useless drugs that were rubber stamped
    "approved" by a useless FDA. Fraudulent garbage.

    I'm more disturbed by a relatively recent tendency to say "Ah, science
    is worthless."

    --

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  • From AMuzi@21:1/5 to Frank Krygowski on Wed Mar 26 12:27:33 2025
    On 3/26/2025 12:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 3/26/2025 8:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
    On 3/25/2025 10:39 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
    On 3/25/2025 8:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a
    new title by an experienced researcher on the growing
    unreliability of once-trusted published scientific papers.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable

    Reader reviews on that page are great.

    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the
    sciences share this lack of rigor, honesty,
    reproducibility, etc now.

    They may share it to _some_ degree, but I think you tend
    to greatly overstate the problem. The percentage of
    published papers found to be faulty is tiny. Science
    essentially runs on corroboration. If subsequent
    researchers don't find strong evidence of fallacy, data
    is generally good.

    I'm more disturbed by a relatively recent tendency to say
    "Ah, science is worthless."


    I used to believe that as well. When it was true.

    Retracted published papers were 500 in 2010.
    For 2023 there were 10,000,

    But that's out of something approaching ten million papers
    per year! It's far, far less than one percent.

    Yes, that's right (estimated around 2% overall but over 9%
    in certain fields such as oncology and cardiology)

    https://editverse.com/causes-and-types-of-retractions/

    Trouble is, you don't know which are unreliable and the
    numbers are no longer negligible. The trend has greatly
    concerned scientists in all fields as it does have
    existential import to their livelihoods.

    https://gijn.org/stories/telltale-data-signs-fraudulent-academic-research/

    Subtitle here covers the greater ramifications exactly:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-scientists-dont-correct-errors-misinformation-and-deadly-consequences/
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  • From Catrike Ryder@21:1/5 to frkrygow@sbcglobal.net on Wed Mar 26 14:53:10 2025
    On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:35:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
    <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    On 3/26/2025 1:20 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
    Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> writes:

    On 3/25/2025 8:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
    I've mentioned this crisis here previously. This is a new title by
    an experienced researcher on the growing unreliability of
    once-trusted published scientific papers.
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218244940-unreliable
    Reader reviews on that page are great.
    Focus here is on biomedical research but all the sciences share this
    lack of rigor, honesty, reproducibility, etc now.

    They may share it to _some_ degree, but I think you tend to greatly
    overstate the problem. The percentage of published papers found to be
    faulty is tiny. Science essentially runs on corroboration. If
    subsequent researchers don't find strong evidence of fallacy, data is
    generally good.

    Science essentially runs on money, and monopsony has not been good for
    science.

    Some really high profile papers have been discovered, belatedly, to have
    been garbage, for example:

    https://www.science.org/content/article/researchers-plan-retract-landmark-alzheimers-paper-containing-doctored-images

    This paper was the starting basis for most Alzheimer's research in the
    last two decades, and several useless drugs that were rubber stamped
    "approved" by a useless FDA. Fraudulent garbage.

    Yes, it happens. But as with other problems noted here, the frequency is
    much less than sometimes pretended.

    I'm more disturbed by a relatively recent tendency to say "Ah, science
    is worthless."


    "Yes, it happens. But as with other problems noted here, the frequency
    is much less than sometimes pretended."

    At least in your opinion, anyway.

    --
    "Nothing's gonna change my world"
    -- John Lennon

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