So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but steady
and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really but was thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road 49 miles
never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just wonder how important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3 in 1 oil rated
for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine bike maintenance but I manage a ride in.
On 5/4/2025 6:16 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but steady
and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really but was
thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road 49 miles
never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just wonder how
important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3 in 1 oil rated
for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine bike
maintenance but I manage a ride in.
Yes, clean and re-lube the chain.
3-in-1 is not exactly the greatest choice in lubes ( in fact, it would
be hard to do worse). It's sticky, so it catches and keeps dirt,
resulting in more chain wear since it then acts almost like fine-grade
wet sandpaper. Wet lubes are good for riding in wet conditions since
they stay put, but shouldn't be used for all-around chain lube. If you
don't want to take the time to wax, use a dry-wax liquid like Squirt.
It's relatively inexpensive, lasts a long time, and doesn't attract
dirt. Read about it here.
https://bikerumor.com/best-bike-chain-lube/
According to them, a 4 oz bottle can last up to 6000 miles with regular
chain cleaning.
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/4/2025 6:16 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but steady
and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really but was
thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road 49 miles
never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just wonder how
important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3 in 1 oil rated
for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine bike
maintenance but I manage a ride in.
Yes, clean and re-lube the chain.
3-in-1 is not exactly the greatest choice in lubes ( in fact, it would
be hard to do worse). It's sticky, so it catches and keeps dirt,
resulting in more chain wear since it then acts almost like fine-grade
wet sandpaper. Wet lubes are good for riding in wet conditions since
they stay put, but shouldn't be used for all-around chain lube. If you don't want to take the time to wax, use a dry-wax liquid like Squirt.
It's relatively inexpensive, lasts a long time, and doesn't attract
dirt. Read about it here.
https://bikerumor.com/best-bike-chain-lube/
According to them, a 4 oz bottle can last up to 6000 miles with regular chain cleaning.
I don?t get that, but then I use it for the commute bikes which I dislike cleaning so that it runs clean is much appreciated! Squirt that is.
It does wash off if a very wet ride, so you end up reapplying after wet
rides etc, hence I like lots of folks do use wet lubes in winter as the wax doesn?t last, it does a bit better on the Gravel bike, but is overwhelmed
by the bog riding the MTB gets put though in winter!
I have occasionally used 3in1 for that very specific purpose, as its
ability to hang on there on the chain is very good.
But yes it?s a poor choice possibly only WD40 spray being worse!
On Mon May 5 12:20:09 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 5/4/2025 6:16 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:I don?t get that, but then I use it for the commute bikes which I dislike
So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but steady >>>> and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really but was
thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road 49 miles
never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just wonder how
important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3 in 1 oil rated >>>> for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine bike >>>> maintenance but I manage a ride in.
Yes, clean and re-lube the chain.
3-in-1 is not exactly the greatest choice in lubes ( in fact, it would
be hard to do worse). It's sticky, so it catches and keeps dirt,
resulting in more chain wear since it then acts almost like fine-grade
wet sandpaper. Wet lubes are good for riding in wet conditions since
they stay put, but shouldn't be used for all-around chain lube. If you
don't want to take the time to wax, use a dry-wax liquid like Squirt.
It's relatively inexpensive, lasts a long time, and doesn't attract
dirt. Read about it here.
https://bikerumor.com/best-bike-chain-lube/
According to them, a 4 oz bottle can last up to 6000 miles with regular
chain cleaning.
cleaning so that it runs clean is much appreciated! Squirt that is.
It does wash off if a very wet ride, so you end up reapplying after wet
rides etc, hence I like lots of folks do use wet lubes in winter as the wax >> doesn?t last, it does a bit better on the Gravel bike, but is overwhelmed
by the bog riding the MTB gets put though in winter!
I have occasionally used 3in1 for that very specific purpose, as its
ability to hang on there on the chain is very good.
But yes it?s a poor choice possibly only WD40 spray being worse!
Chain lube is a reoccurring problem. I use hot wax augmentated with
teflon powder and Molybdenum disulfate. But like everything else this
ends up washing off eventually
So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but steady
and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really but was thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road 49 miles
never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just wonder how important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3 in 1 oil rated
for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine bike maintenance but I manage a ride in.
On 5/6/2025 4:59 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 5/4/2025 6:16 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but
steady and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really
but was thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road
49 miles never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just
wonder how important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3
in 1 oil rated for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine
bike maintenance but I manage a ride in.
This just caught my eye
https://bikerumor.com/simplyfast-123bike-lube-cube-claims-to-be-
cleanest-easiest-way-to-lubricate-a-chain/
Apparently it's a block of wax that you hold in place on the chain
while rotating the pedals backwards. There aren't any real user
reviews yet, seems to me it's missing a rather significant point of
getting in between the rollers and pins.
Might be worth a try though at MSRP of $10. Certainly couldn't be
worse than 3-in-1.
https://www.event-gear.com/simplyfast-s-cube-an-all-new-way-to-lube-
your-chain/
I think I'll spring for it and try it on my commuter, then report back.
It reminds me of my chain lube method, described here periodically. Much
like what they advise for their product, I crayon on a mix of paraffin
wax that I long ago blended in maybe 10% oil (or gear lube?). Then I
heat the links with a very low flame propane torch until I see the wax
crumbs melt and flow into the chain's crevises. I do it maybe 10 inches
at a time, working on the bottom run of the chain until the entire chain
is done. Then I backpedal through a wad of paper towels to remove excess.
If you try that product, you might want to see if a bit of heat will get
it to flow into the chain bits.
On 7/5/25 16:49, James wrote:
On 7/5/25 06:59, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 5/4/2025 6:16 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
So I got caught yesterday in the rain. Not a huge down pour but
steady and light for maybe 25 miles. I never cleaned the bike really
but was thinking, should I re-lube the chain? I went out today road
49 miles never gave it thought about yesterday. Bike road ok I just
wonder how important it really is? My lube of choice is box store 3
in 1 oil rated for 1/4 HP applications. Used if for the past 17 years
I have been refinishing my kitchen cabinets no time to do routine
bike maintenance but I manage a ride in.
This just caught my eye
https://bikerumor.com/simplyfast-123bike-lube-cube-claims-to-be-
cleanest-easiest-way-to-lubricate-a-chain/
Apparently it's a block of wax that you hold in place on the chain
while rotating the pedals backwards. There aren't any real user
reviews yet, seems to me it's missing a rather significant point of
getting in between the rollers and pins.
Might be worth a try though at MSRP of $10. Certainly couldn't be
worse than 3-in-1.
https://www.event-gear.com/simplyfast-s-cube-an-all-new-way-to-lube-
your-chain/
I think I'll spring for it and try it on my commuter, then report back.
I think it will be an utter waste of time to just rub a block of wax
over the outside of the chain. The parts that really need lubrication
are inside the rollers. The pin to inside plate bearing surface,
particularly, but also between the plates.
Unless you heat the chain before rubbing the block on it, the
lubricant won't reach the parts that need it.
The moaning about cooking chains taking hours with solvents and so on
is complete rubbish. Simply do not use solvents. Dump the dirty/dry
chain in the hot lubricant.
It doesn't take long to remove the chain with a quick link. I never
bother cleaning with solvents. Just immerse the chain in hot wax+oil
for a few minutes, then remove it from the wax+oil and set it on a
piece of cardboard or a plastic ice cream container lid to drain and
cool enough for you to handle.
Within 5 minutes you can be putting the chain back on the bike.
I don't even bother removing the factory grease, which for Campagnolo
chains is fine for at least a thousand kms. Shimano factory chain
lube is just oil. It needs wax treatment after the first couple of
rides - or prior to the first ride.
Ok, it's not as fast as dripping oily stuff on the outside of the
chain, but it's not terribly slow and does a much better job.
I use 50/50 mix of paraffin wax (candle wax) and gear oil. Use
scented candles if you want a sweet smelling ride ;-)
I put a new Campagnolo 11s chain on my gravel bike last October. Since
then I've raced a UCI gravel race (137km) and another gravel race over terrain that was more suited to a mountain bike, with creek crossings
and descents you couldn't walk down without sliding.
In addition, I
haven't ridden any other bike this summer (southern hemisphere), so it
has clocked up 6 months of riding. Close to 5000km. Maybe 30% on
gravel roads.
I measured 12 inches of chain yesterday, and there is no (zero)
measurable elongation to report. (The chain may have started undersize).
I only bother to lubricate the chain once it sounds dry.
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner >(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health" <https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024) <https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
On Wed, 7 May 2025 19:46:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 5/7/2025 6:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
We used trichloroethane for cleaning for years, small drums
to fill Milwaukee Sprayers:
Please be careful with the chemical names. The chemical Zen Cycle
uses is tetrachloroethylene. The chemical that you're talking about
is trichloroethylene, which is a very different chemical.
From 1971 to 1973, I spent some time on a PCB (printed circuit board)
and hybrid IC (integrated circuit) soldering production line. We
would wash off the rosin flux with trichloroethylene (and
trichlorethane) with no gloves and breathing protection. In about
1995, we had a reunion and compared notes. We discovered that nearly everyone that had worked on the production line had some form of liver damage. I was the only one who didn't have liver damage, possibly
because I spent less time near the soldering machines.
https://sureshotsprayer.com/products/model-a-sprayer-a1102
Which brings a good question:
https://ecolink.com/info/trichloroethylene-vs-trichloroethane/
Trichloroethane is excellent for cleaning and as a bonus it
won't burn. Not readily at least. Our vendor said it was
discontinued due to regulation years ago.
Since government intervention, we now use brake cleaner.
Typically:
https://zep.com/products/zep-brake-wash-non-chlorinated-parts-cleaner-20-gallon-50550?_pos=3&_psq=brake+wash&_ss=e&_v=1.0
or
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-brake-cleaner-brake-parts-cleaner-non-chlorinated-high-voc-quick-evaporation-leaves-no-residue-5-gallon-w5086/10998756-P?selectedStore=1830&searchTerm=brake+cleaner
MSDS:
https://www.aapmsds.com/msds.aspx?id=19422969-8f5c-4a99-a2d3-d5ae5bc1233a
which is more expensive and a virtual flamethrower in a
sprayer; shoots fire a meter and a half at 100 psi (which
can be seen as entertainment). In regular daily use, brake
cleaner is a fire hazard and attention need be paid to that.
On 5/7/2025 6:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
We used trichloroethane for cleaning for years, small drums
to fill Milwaukee Sprayers:
https://sureshotsprayer.com/products/model-a-sprayer-a1102--
Which brings a good question: >https://ecolink.com/info/trichloroethylene-vs-trichloroethane/
Trichloroethane is excellent for cleaning and as a bonus it
won't burn. Not readily at least. Our vendor said it was
discontinued due to regulation years ago.
Since government intervention, we now use brake cleaner.
Typically:
https://zep.com/products/zep-brake-wash-non-chlorinated-parts-cleaner-20-gallon-50550?_pos=3&_psq=brake+wash&_ss=e&_v=1.0
or >https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-brake-cleaner-brake-parts-cleaner-non-chlorinated-high-voc-quick-evaporation-leaves-no-residue-5-gallon-w5086/10998756-P?selectedStore=1830&searchTerm=brake+cleaner
MSDS: >https://www.aapmsds.com/msds.aspx?id=19422969-8f5c-4a99-a2d3-d5ae5bc1233a
which is more expensive and a virtual flamethrower in a
sprayer; shoots fire a meter and a half at 100 psi (which
can be seen as entertainment). In regular daily use, brake
cleaner is a fire hazard and attention need be paid to that.
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health" <https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024) <https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
On 5/7/2025 6:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-consumer-and-
many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/risk-
management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
We used trichloroethane for cleaning for years, small drums to fill
Milwaukee Sprayers:
https://sureshotsprayer.com/products/model-a-sprayer-a1102
Which brings a good question: https://ecolink.com/info/trichloroethylene-vs-trichloroethane/
Trichloroethane is excellent for cleaning and as a bonus it won't burn.
Not readily at least. Our vendor said it was discontinued due to
regulation years ago.
Since government intervention, we now use brake cleaner. Typically:
https://zep.com/products/zep-brake-wash-non-chlorinated-parts- cleaner-20-gallon-50550?_pos=3&_psq=brake+wash&_ss=e&_v=1.0
or
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-brake-cleaner-brake-parts- cleaner-non-chlorinated-high-voc-quick-evaporation-leaves-no-residue-5- gallon-w5086/10998756-P?selectedStore=1830&searchTerm=brake+cleaner
MSDS: https://www.aapmsds.com/msds.aspx?id=19422969-8f5c-4a99-a2d3-d5ae5bc1233a
which is more expensive and a virtual flamethrower in a sprayer; shoots
fire a meter and a half at 100 psi (which can be seen as
entertainment). In regular daily use, brake cleaner is a fire hazard and attention need be paid to that.
On Wed, 7 May 2025 19:46:09 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 5/7/2025 6:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
We used trichloroethane for cleaning for years, small drums
to fill Milwaukee Sprayers:
Please be careful with the chemical names. The chemical Zen Cycle
uses is tetrachloroethylene. The chemical that you're talking about
is trichloroethylene, which is a very different chemical.
From 1971 to 1973, I spent some time on a PCB (printed circuit board)
and hybrid IC (integrated circuit) soldering production line. We
would wash off the rosin flux with trichloroethylene (and
trichlorethane) with no gloves and breathing protection. In about
1995, we had a reunion and compared notes.
We discovered that nearly
everyone that had worked on the production line had some form of liver damage. I was the only one who didn't have liver damage, possibly
because I spent less time near the soldering machines.
On 5/7/2025 7:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle
<funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake
cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-
Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
Yup, and it works great as a degreaser.
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-
consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
I'm not to worried about this administrations actions having
anything to do with protecting public health. Quite the
opposite, in fact.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/epa-rollback- environmental-regulations-zeldin-rcna196112
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-
under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry
cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend
considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
It's a good thing I'm not using it for dry cleaning then. In
the meantime, there's no talk of banning it as an industrial
solvent (degreaser).
I agree with limiting it in cases where people may be
exposed to it all day everyday, like dry cleaner employees.
For people that use it a couple time a week in a garage, not
likely that big of a deal. For someone who uses a pint to
clean a batch of bike chains every couple of months -
there's more risk from the diesel fumes I inhale during my
commutes.
On 5/7/2025 9:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 19:46:09 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 5/7/2025 6:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle
<funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with
brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner-
Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial
Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-
consumer-and-many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-
protect>
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals-
under-tsca/risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in
dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend
considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
We used trichloroethane for cleaning for years, small drums
to fill Milwaukee Sprayers:
Please be careful with the chemical names. The chemical
Zen Cycle
uses is tetrachloroethylene. The chemical that you're
talking about
is trichloroethylene, which is a very different chemical.
From 1971 to 1973, I spent some time on a PCB (printed
circuit board)
and hybrid IC (integrated circuit) soldering production
line. We
would wash off the rosin flux with trichloroethylene (and
trichlorethane) with no gloves and breathing protection.
In about
1995, we had a reunion and compared notes.
In the early 80's when I first started as a technician in
the electronics industry vapor degreasers with
trichlorethane were all the rage. I do remember that
sticking an un-gloved hand beneath the condensers would
dessicate the outer layer of skin. As a production
technician at the time my exposure was limited to the few
times I needed to do a PCB repair, probably less than once a
week.
That was phased along with a host of other chloro/flouro
carbons due to ozone depletion. About the time that
trichlorethane was fully phased out, water soluble fluxes
had been developed for mass production (wave solder systems)
so degreaser tanks were replaced with large ultrasonic
cleaners. We still operate a through-hole line here with a
wave solder machine. Our process is to use an IPA bath (no,
not the beer), followed by the ultrasonic cleaner. I don't
think I ever been exposed to trichloroethylene, at least, my
liver is still in good shape.
We discovered that nearly
everyone that had worked on the production line had some
form of liver
damage. I was the only one who didn't have liver damage,
possibly
because I spent less time near the soldering machines.
Liver damage from trichloroethylene is mentioned here: https://ecolink.com/info/trichloroethylene-vs-trichloroethane/
On 5/8/2025 7:12 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 5/7/2025 7:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner- Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
Yup, and it works great as a degreaser.
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all- consumer-and-
many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
I'm not to worried about this administrations actions having anything
to do with protecting public health. Quite the opposite, in fact.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/epa-rollback-
environmental-regulations-zeldin-rcna196112
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals- under-tsca/
risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
It's a good thing I'm not using it for dry cleaning then. In the
meantime, there's no talk of banning it as an industrial solvent
(degreaser).
I agree with limiting it in cases where people may be exposed to it
all day everyday, like dry cleaner employees. For people that use it a
couple time a week in a garage, not likely that big of a deal. For
someone who uses a pint to clean a batch of bike chains every couple
of months - there's more risk from the diesel fumes I inhale during my
commutes.
+1
A little perspective can be quite helpful.
A distinct outlier is California's Prop 65:
https://oag.ca.gov/prop65/faq
which requires notice for anything with 1/1000 of the lowest reported
harmful level by any study for any material or product. That has
crossed from safety into harassment.
On 5/8/2025 8:51 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2025 7:12 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 5/7/2025 7:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:+1
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleaner
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner- Solvent-35WT64)
Almost pure dry cleaning solvent:
Yup, and it works great as a degreaser.
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-
consumer-and- many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
I'm not to worried about this administrations actions having
anything to do with protecting public health. Quite the opposite,
in fact.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/epa-rollback-
environmental-regulations-zeldin-rcna196112
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals- under-tsca/
risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to
eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
It's a good thing I'm not using it for dry cleaning then. In the
meantime, there's no talk of banning it as an industrial solvent
(degreaser).
I agree with limiting it in cases where people may be exposed to it
all day everyday, like dry cleaner employees. For people that use
it a couple time a week in a garage, not likely that big of a
deal. For someone who uses a pint to clean a batch of bike chains
every couple of months - there's more risk from the diesel fumes I
inhale during my commutes.
A little perspective can be quite helpful.
A distinct outlier is California's Prop 65:
https://oag.ca.gov/prop65/faq
which requires notice for anything with 1/1000 of the lowest
reported harmful level by any study for any material or product.
That has crossed from safety into harassment.
I don't necessarily disagree with requiring notifications. At that
point the decision to use the product then falls on the user. This
doesn't seem to me to be an unreasonable burden.
Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> writes:
On 5/8/2025 8:51 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2025 7:12 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 5/7/2025 7:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:+1
On Wed, 7 May 2025 07:24:50 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
I rinse mine for a few minutes in a coffee can with brake cleanerAlmost pure dry cleaning solvent:
(https://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-Brake-Cleaner- Solvent-35WT64) >>>>>
Yup, and it works great as a degreaser.
<https://www.grainger.com/sds/pdf/259633.pdf>
Chemical name: tetrachloroethylene
Common name and synonyms: perchloroethylene
CAS number: 127-18-4
% 90 - 100%
"EPA Proposes Ban on All Consumer and Many Commercial Uses of
Perchloroethylene to Protect Public Health"
<https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-proposes-ban-all-
consumer-and- many-commercial-uses-perchloroethylene-protect>
I'm not to worried about this administrations actions having
anything to do with protecting public health. Quite the opposite,
in fact.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/epa-rollback-
environmental-regulations-zeldin-rcna196112
"Risk Management for Perchloroethylene (PCE)" (Dec 2024)
<https://www.epa.gov/assessing-and-managing-chemicals- under-tsca/
risk-management-perchloroethylene-pce>
"EPA has set a 10-year phaseout for the use of PCE in dry cleaning to >>>>> eliminate the risk to people who work or spend considerable time at
dry cleaning facilities."
It's a good thing I'm not using it for dry cleaning then. In the
meantime, there's no talk of banning it as an industrial solvent
(degreaser).
I agree with limiting it in cases where people may be exposed to it
all day everyday, like dry cleaner employees. For people that use
it a couple time a week in a garage, not likely that big of a
deal. For someone who uses a pint to clean a batch of bike chains
every couple of months - there's more risk from the diesel fumes I
inhale during my commutes.
A little perspective can be quite helpful.
A distinct outlier is California's Prop 65:
https://oag.ca.gov/prop65/faq
which requires notice for anything with 1/1000 of the lowest
reported harmful level by any study for any material or product.
That has crossed from safety into harassment.
I don't necessarily disagree with requiring notifications. At that
point the decision to use the product then falls on the user. This
doesn't seem to me to be an unreasonable burden.
When almost literally everything has a prop65 notice no useful
information is given. Users have no way to distinguish potentially
dangerous products from those that have the notice only as legal self defense. MSDSs, on the other hand, while they may err on the side of
caution at least impart some useful information.
Prop65 is a little boy crying wolf every day, all the time. It's worse
than useless.
Everything is deadly to one degree or another.
From this morning's news:
https://nypost.com/2025/05/08/health/common-appliance-raises-kids- cancer-risk-nearly-twice-as-much-as-adults/
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