On 6/1/2025 9:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Hard fact is that illegals do not enjoy the same Due Process asStraw man alert. IIRC, nobody here ever claimed illegal immigrants have
citizens.
the _same_ due process rights as citizens.
But they are still supposed to get _some_ due process rights. At least,
they should be actually determined to be here illegally. As news stories
have shown, that's sometimes being violated.
In article <pnct3k1grlt8flup51ass2pgtactgkfnrd@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I believe that is the current "level of care."
That level of care requires judicial oversight that we are not currently maintaining, so it's not the current level.
I haven't seen anyone sent to the Salvadorian prison who doesn't belong >there.
When it comes to the Constitution, what matters is what the courts have
seen, not what you or I have seen.
What's the rush? You have the guy in custody--he's not a threat. Give
him a hearing. Maybe during the hearing you'll find that it was illegal
for you to deport him to El Salvador *before* you do it, and you can
deport him, legally, to a different country.
In article <101i16r$2ados$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I believe he's referring to ID/arrest errors. They have happened. They
are few. They been well publicized.
The ones you know of, anyway.
One of the reason that due process is so important for everyone is so
the government can't just point its finger at *you*, say "MS-13", and
put you on a plane to a foreign prison from which they have no power to remove you.
Why would they do that? Maybe you're here illegally and have a tattoo.
Or maybe you just said something someone didn't like and "oops" you're
gone. "Our mistake, sorry. No, we can't bring him home. So sorry about
that."
but administrative remedies are established.
Unless you're in a Salvadorian prison, in which case they aren't.
Franklin said he'd rather see 100 criminals go free before one innocent person was incarcerated. That's the level of care we should be taking.
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so
you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the
country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to
waive this right.
He should, but he doesn't. He believes - under the current
administration - that onus probandi is on the defendant. With regards to
this administration and their cult of followers, it's now "guilty until proven innocent", with the caveat that they'll be shipped out of the
country before they have a chance to prove it.
Once a democrat is back in the oval office, he'll change his opinion and accuse them of gestapo tactics.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the
community.
On 6/4/2025 10:09 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the community.
[]'s
Exactly - the memo had no "anti-catholic" bias whatsoever. It was
targeted at a specific individual who "expressed neo-Nazi rhetoric and described himself as a "Catholic clerical fascist." The FBI said he
wrote in a letter to a family member that he needed to "build guns, explosives, and other forms of weaponry" in order to "make total war
against the Satanic occultist government and the Zionist devil
worshiping bankers who control it."
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU13/20250225/117924/HHRG-119-JU13-20250225-SD012-U12.pdf
the memo gave guidance for looking into how he may have become
radicalized at his church.
Painting it as Biden attacking catholics at large is yet another example
of right wing sensationalist bullshit.
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no details for
"gathering information about Catholic traditionalist groups" etc. It
seems odd that the FBI would suddenly be paranoid about religious people
who espouse conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another right wing political
organization drumming up outrage.
On 6/4/2025 11:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-
distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no
details for "gathering information about Catholic
traditionalist groups" etc. It seems odd that the FBI would
suddenly be paranoid about religious people who espouse
conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly
what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually
connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another
right wing political organization drumming up outrage.
A bit more on that here:
https://www.wmal.com/2025/06/04/fbi-targeting-of-catholics-was-bigger-than-biden-officials-acknowledged/
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so >>>> you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country >>> illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the
country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to
waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a hearing to >verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:29:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/4/2025 11:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-
distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no
details for "gathering information about Catholic
traditionalist groups" etc. It seems odd that the FBI would
suddenly be paranoid about religious people who espouse
conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly
what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually
connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another
right wing political organization drumming up outrage.
A bit more on that here:
https://www.wmal.com/2025/06/04/fbi-targeting-of-catholics-was-bigger-than-biden-officials-acknowledged/
What's a "Radical Traditionalist Catholic?"
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a hearing?
In article <tsb04kl6rvdr08rr6i0gaqs5kchg93ako7@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Good grief... I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical question >about something that's not going to happen.
These two things have already happened:
* U.S. citizens have been arrested by ICE under the pretense that they
were illegal.
* People have been deported before getting a proper hearing.
So the hypothetical isn't far fetched. We're looking at it.
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or
else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids.
On 6/5/2025 2:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:14:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids. >>>
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen
and walking around with no ID can get you arrested (depends
on the jurisdiction and circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/ >>
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means
of support" is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to
the county line. Happened to me, long ago.
Vagrancy is another thing.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's an unclear issue, especially that some States hand out
ID and even driving licenses to illegal aliens. US citizen
vagrants would imaginably be unable to prove identity while
standing next to a deportable illegal with valid ID.
Again I take no position on this or that but "no ID" is a
very fuzzy standard.
In article <101smqg$1mfi9$2@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen and walking >around with no ID can get you arrested (depends on the jurisdiction and >circumstances).
Let's say a person is arrested without ID.
Are you claiming these two subsequent paths of action are identical?
1. Jailed, receives hearing.
2. Jailed, does not receive hearing, is deported.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 16:09:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/5/2025 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder? <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids. >>>
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen and walking
around with no ID can get you arrested (depends on the jurisdiction and
circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-
identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/
There's a difference between refusing to identify yourself and not >producing identification. The former is generally what your links are >referring to. Failure to produce identification isn't an offense...yet
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means of support"
is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to the county line.? Happened >> to me, long ago.
There aren't many enforced statutes anymore for failure to produce ID,
in large part due to the 1972 SCoTUS ruling in Papachristou v.
Jacksonville which invalidated the Jacksonville vagrancy law as >"unconstitutionally vague" (aka "Void for Vagueness").
The ruling was unanimous and forced states to amend their vagrancy and >loitering laws to the extent that vagrancy is no longer anything more
than an insult.
https://www.law.virginia.edu/scholarship/publication/risa-goluboff/640716
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papachristou_v._City_of_Jacksonville
.
Supposedly the "real Id" thing corrected that, but it would surprise
me if some blue states issued them to illegals.
On 6/5/2025 12:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 7:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
kilmar-abrego-garciaOn Wed, 4 Jun 2025 13:27:52 +0200, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 11:52 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> >>>> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any
crimes, so
you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed >>>>>>> any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the >>>>>>> country
illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the >>>>>>> country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that >>>>>>> you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to >>>>>>> waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a
hearing to
verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a >>> hearing?
Good grief... I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical question >> about something that's not going to happen.
... if you're white enough!
Or not:
Fabian Schmidt, German citizen, electrical engineer living in the US
since 2008, and with a green card since 2015. Detained by ICE at Logan Airport in Boston then held in ICE detention centers for two months. Why?
https://www.newsweek.com/green-card-fabian-schmidt-holder-detained-ice-immigratioon-2072698
While living in California:
"a 2016 drug-related offense in California that was eventually dismissed
and a DUI from the same year that led to fines and a probation sentence."
In other words, he was charged, and paid the penalties. But then:
"He alleged that authorities conducted a strip search, confiscated his smartwatch, and refused to let him contact a lawyer, the German
consulate or his family."
"A few days after being detained, Schmidt said he was transported in
shackles to the Donald W. Wyatt Detention Facility in Rhode Island....
After nearly two months in detention, Schmidt received word that he
would be released."
Another stellar case of the trump administration rooting out the worst
of the worst.
On 6/5/2025 3:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 00:15:09 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 6/4/2025 7:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
kilmar-abrego-garciaOn Wed, 4 Jun 2025 13:27:52 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 11:52 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> >>>>> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so
you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country
illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the >>>>>>>> country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to >>>>>>>> waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a hearing to
verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a >>>> hearing?
Good grief... I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical question >>> about something that's not going to happen.
... if you're white enough!
That's from the guy who actually bragged about riding through a neighborhood of people of other races.
Today I'm planning a solo ride through the inner city, partly to visit
a new library on the far side of town. I'll be riding on <gasp!>
ordinary streets. Many of those streets will have <oh my!> people of
other races living there.
--Frank Krygowski https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Zu_BtGgv8Fs/m/vkwxt_GNBQAJ?hl=en&hl=en
Everybody else here understood the sarcasm, as clearly indicated by the "<gasp!>" and "<oh my!>".
But I suppose if a person is too timid to interact with others in normal life, obvious conversational clues might be confusing.
:-) And how interesting that our timid tricyclist is saving my posts
for reference! Talk about obsessions!
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:38:08 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 05:52:39 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> >> >> wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so >> >>>> you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any >> >>> crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country
illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the
country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you >> >>> get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to >> >>> waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a hearing to >> >verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
can remain anonymous.This can very easily meet the require4ments of the Constitution using a study group. You can even split it between Democrats and Republicans because NO Democrat wants his name tied to holding a violent criminal in the US. They only do this when they
I just want all the illegals out of here. The sooner the better.
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 22:39:28 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 3 21:31:05 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <pnct3k1grlt8flup51ass2pgtactgkfnrd@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I believe that is the current "level of care."
That level of care requires judicial oversight that we are not currently >> maintaining, so it's not the current level.
I haven't seen anyone sent to the Salvadorian prison who doesn't belong >> >there.
When it comes to the Constitution, what matters is what the courts have
seen, not what you or I have seen.
What's the rush? You have the guy in custody--he's not a threat. Give
him a hearing. Maybe during the hearing you'll find that it was illegal
for you to deport him to El Salvador *before* you do it, and you can
deport him, legally, to a different country.
come to the US to practice their trade. I have a next door neighbor who illegally has no insurance, damaged my car and then because their own was dented Gavin Newsom bought them a new Toyota SUV and a new |Mustang musclke car. And that was just lastAre you saying you're willing to foot the bill for paying for enough prisons to house these people until the inrvitsble "tguilty" sends them on their way. Those sections of the Constitution were written when the Democrats weren't peying criminals to
Gavin Handsome ALWAYS gives new cars to republicans. It's why republicans never move away from California. They LOVE him.
On 6/4/2025 9:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2025 3:29 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 19:20:36 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/3/2025 7:02 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 18:37:18 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 6/3/2025 5:57 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 22:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <o1ru3kl764qpqjn2g921laptlm89n6u571@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
There are thousand of illegals. It would take years and $$$$$ to >>>>>>>> process them all through the courts... and besides, it's not >>>>>>>> necessary.
I sincerely hope for your sake you never have the finger pointed >>>>>>> at you
through administrative error.
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so >>>>>> you needn't worry.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's not that. It's the possibility of an error such as I
referenced recently:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/09/08/elderly-new-jersey-woman-
jailed-for-two-weeks-in-wrongful-arrest-cant-sue-u-s-marshals-
court-rules/
IMHO that woman is owed a lot and formal public apologies
all around. But so far nada. (p.s. note dates in that story)
I hope she get's big bucks and the people behind the arrest loose
their jobs and their pensions. Mistakes have occurred in all areas of >>>> law enforcement.... but still, we cannot process all the illegals
through the court systems. In the mean time, I'm not going to worry
about being misidentified and sent to prison any more than I worry
about getting hit with a meteorite
--
C'est bon
Soloman
OK that's reasonable, but Mr Jorgensen has a point.
She's not an one-off. There are a couple dozen of those
every year. Every year.
Suing for false arrest and then for damages is a dicey
process depending on jurisdiction and the personalities
involved.
The Statutes are clear about illegal alien criminals. Then
again, the laws are very clear about US citizens' civil
rights too...
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a
workable solution.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Especially since their entry lacked any individual certification or validation, just an intentional abuse of 'humanitarian parole' a few million at a time, repeatedly.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/humanitarian_parole
Well gee, maybe if they concentrated on actual criminals rather than:
- soccer moms who have lived under the radar for 20 years, paid taxes,
and were active in their church, https://www.yahoo.com/news/small-town-rallies-around-soccer-143123445.html
- PhD students who did no more than publish an article critical of their school https://apnews.com/article/ozturk-tufts-mahdawi-columbia-students-detained-034d97a7e280c68a7d1fb6aa879ce87c
- honor role high school students whose father was wanted for a misdemeanor https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/our-life-is-here-father-of-milford-high-school-student-detained-by-ice-breaks-silence/3731289/
"Marcelo is an 18-year-old high school junior who entered the United
States lawfully when he was just barely 7-years old," his attorney,
Robin Nice, said in a statement. "He is deeply rooted in his community ? active in his church, a dedicated member of both his high school
marching band and church band, and surrounded by friends, teachers, and mentors who care deeply about him."
they might have time to give them due process as guaranteed by the constitution.
But, I guess in magatard world, soccer moms, PhD candidates, and high
school honor students are the worst of the worst, and deserve to be
deported without due process.
On 6/3/2025 7:02 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 18:37:18 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/3/2025 5:57 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 22:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> >>> wrote:
In article <o1ru3kl764qpqjn2g921laptlm89n6u571@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
There are thousand of illegals. It would take years and $$$$$ to
process them all through the courts... and besides, it's not
necessary.
I sincerely hope for your sake you never have the finger pointed at you >>>> through administrative error.
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so
you needn't worry.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's not that. It's the possibility of an error such as I
referenced recently:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/09/08/elderly-new-jersey-woman-jailed-for-two-weeks-in-wrongful-arrest-cant-sue-u-s-marshals-court-rules/
IMHO that woman is owed a lot and formal public apologies
all around. But so far nada. (p.s. note dates in that story)
I hope she get's big bucks and the people behind the arrest loose
their jobs and their pensions. Mistakes have occurred in all areas of
law enforcement.... but still, we cannot process all the illegals
through the court systems. In the mean time, I'm not going to worry
about being misidentified and sent to prison any more than I worry
about getting hit with a meteorite
--
C'est bon
Soloman
OK that's reasonable, but Mr Jorgensen has a point.
She's not an one-off. There are a couple dozen of those
every year. Every year.
Suing for false arrest and then for damages is a dicey
process depending on jurisdiction and the personalities
involved.
The Statutes are clear about illegal alien criminals. Then
again, the laws are very clear about US citizens' civil
rights too...
Which doesn't negate their right to due process
In article <2ta84k5178gqcnqegg78j6ouvlpn2f50gn@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Actually, as I explained, anyone who is officially accused of being an >illegal has a due process right to provide evidence to the accusing >official that he is not an illegal.
When you play it this way, you're putting 100% of your faith and trust
in the honesty of the official who is accusing you. That's not the way a
free country works.
There are mostly good LEOs out there. But there are some bad apples. You don't give those bad apples that kind of power because they will simply
lie and abuse it.
Like I said, probably different levels of trust in the government, here.
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're really illegal or not.
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who
gets deported."
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 00:58:52 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >>workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who >gets deported."
The SCOTUS says it's not necessary for illegals.
A judicial system hearing was never a requirement for the deportation
of illegals. Their due process rights are extremely limited. Temporary
vizas can be revoked without warning.
That's the law. Write your congressman if you want it changed.
On 6/6/2025 11:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 00:58:52 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >>> workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who
gets deported."
This all seems a bit confusing as since at least 60 years ago the U.S.
had a workable immigration system. You want visit the U.S. you go to
the U.S.Embassy, they determine what you want to do and they give you
the forms, you filled them out and they approved or disapprove them.
For example when my Thai wife wanted to visit her sister (G.I. wife)
she had to provide proof that she as sufficient funds to reside in the
U.S. for the period of the visit and to return to Thailand.
Only then would they issue a visa.
Without a visa a foreigner couldn't legally enter the U.S.
That's what the Statutes specify.
On 6/6/2025 7:58 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a
workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who gets deported."
As noted here previously, US citizens have full civil and
process rights. Legal resident aliens have some, but limited
and green cards may be revoked. Temporary visa (of all
types) holders may be removed "at the discretion of the
Secretary of State". Illegal aliens are subject to
deportation when and where discovered.
In a practical sense, a finding of fact (who is this guy
really?) is reasonable and prudent. That is not a trial.
It's not that. It's the possibility of an error such as I
referenced recently:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/09/08/elderly-new-jersey-woman-jailed-for-two-weeks-in-wrongful-arrest-cant-sue-u-s-marshals-court-rules/
IMHO that woman is owed a lot and formal public apologies
all around. But so far nada. (p.s. note dates in that story)
On 6/5/2025 11:59 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was
unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
Tommy persists in thinking that trump is unquestionable good. Trumps
handling of covid 19 as well as the current shitshow in the white house
has taught him nothing at all.
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 05:24:50 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:59:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<S.>
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
The Biden administration and their cohorts in state governments used
the disease as an excuse to take control of people's private lives and
take away their civil liberties.
https://reason.com/2024/12/10/civil-liberties-lost-under-covid/"Throughout his time in office, Biden empowered officials to violate Americans' liberties in the name of fighting COVID-19. There is little evidence those policies worked."
Sorry, I can't agree with that last sentence as Thailand did apply
thoser very same policies, the resuit?
U.S. -
cases 1 million population 333,985
deaths per 1 million population 3842
Thailand -
Cases 1 million population 68,069
Deaths 1 million population 494
In article <g1104kpnld069op5s12ddfjpaas7360a82@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
So if the government says you're not a US citizen (even if you are), you don't get a hearing. This is a planet-sized loophole, you see?
On 6/5/2025 8:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/5/2025 6:42 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 13:27:52 2025 Rolf Mantel wrote:
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a >>> hearing?
hat is not an argument Rolf. You cannot argue with either an honest
birth certificate or now a Real ID. Birth Certificates are certified
at the time and place of your birth.
I have no doubt that 'Real ID' will be counterfeited equally as well as current ID. Post haste.
For a while I consulted for a company that produced commercial
holograms. While I was there, they got a request - thinly disguised - to forge whatever hologram is built into California drivers' licenses. They refused, of course.
I suspect someone will soon find a way to counterfeit Real ID.
Apparently, Junior believes everything he's told by the leftist media.
um...no.
The named judge in that article - Judge David M. Jones - made absolutely
no determination of any gang affiliation. Judge Jones order is linked in
the article so you can read it yourself. (here for convenience https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V_yaacfwjS6i02eeCaHoPh64tGvySkVO/)
Regarding any alleged gang affiliation, The link you provided has no
more information than "two [unnamed] judges determined he is likely to
be a member of the Central American gang, Mara Salvatrucha".
It's heresay, and there has been no evidence produced by anyone that Mr. Garcia had any gang affiliation. More trump DOJ bullshit.
That 'information' is no where in that link or video, and only made as
an unsubstantiated claim in other TS links.
Be any of that as it may, The issue of transporting people for money is
not by _any_ definition "human smuggling".
You'll note the TS had the due diligence to posted the entire order from Judge Jones' stay-in-us order via a link, yet for some reason has no
other information on "two judges found him likely to be affiliated with
MS13" other than that unsubstantiated claim (made in several of their stories).
That was information spoon-fed to the TS by the administration, which if
true would be rather easy to validate.
This is similar to the case of the Milford MA high school student
detained by ICE. After the arrest, ICE said it was his father they were looking for becasue:
"Federal immigration authorities said he "has a habit of reckless
driving at speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour through residential
areas endangering Massachusetts residents."
At least in Massachusetts, you don't get to walk free if you pulled over doing 100 in a residential area, let alone if you make a "habit" of it
(I should know, my license was suspended once in the 80's for doing 50
in a 25).
If it were true, it would be easy enough to verify. IOW - just more made
up bullshit from trump ICE to cover their asses.
Good luck with that if you're ever stopped by State Patrol.
I'll try to remember that the next time I get paid to drive people
across state lines for money.
On 6/6/2025 6:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Update this afternoon regarding Mr Abrego Garcia.
3-1/2 minute video is on the 2d screen/page here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-way-back-185850961.html
This sounds a lot closer to what the Founding Fathers intended, compared
to "Deport him!" and "Oops, we goofed but we can't fix it."
On 6/6/2025 9:54 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 6:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Update this afternoon regarding Mr Abrego Garcia.
3-1/2 minute video is on the 2d screen/page here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-way-
back-185850961.html
This sounds a lot closer to what the Founding Fathers
intended, compared to "Deport him!" and "Oops, we goofed but
we can't fix it."
All his deplorable criminal activities aside, he has a prior
deportation order fer chrissake. What does it take to
enforce a Statute??
On 6/8/2025 9:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Ally??
I'm as critical of Mr Kunich's misstatements as anyone but there are
times he's been correct and I said so.
I don't believe Frank accused you of that.
In article <1020f63$2pd7f$4@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
In our Constitution, the Article III courts may only decide "cases and >controversies" by applying the laws as written. They have no policy, >legislative or oversight authority.
My point is that if you are wrongly arrested, the courts can free you.
That "oversight" is what I'm referring to.
On 6/7/2025 12:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2025 10:06 AM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1020f63$2pd7f$4@dont-email.me>, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
In our Constitution, the Article III courts may only decide "cases and >>> controversies" by applying the laws as written. They have no policy,
legislative or oversight authority.
My point is that if you are wrongly arrested, the courts can free you.
That "oversight" is what I'm referring to.
Yes, they can order your release when your case is presented to them, by you or your agent, requesting such. No case = no authority.
Which is exactly the point. When you deny due process there is no case.
On 6/8/2025 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and
we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for >> tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there are many valid criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did. That's something.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Yet almost nobody wants
another Mussolini. Not even you, I'll bet.
On 6/8/2025 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and
we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for >> tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there are many valid criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did. That's something.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Yet almost nobody wants
another Mussolini. Not even you, I'll bet.
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 00:16:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> >>> wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom? <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and >>>> we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
????Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for
tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
????[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there are many valid >> criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did.? That's something.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Yet almost nobody wants
another Mussolini. Not even you, I'll bet.
What's a man to do when he has a need for "look at me" attention and
he can't think of anything significant to say about the subject being discussed?
Well, he can always come up with an insignificant strawman.
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 19:12:59 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and
we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for
tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there
are many valid criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did. That's
something.
https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/
It's a military dictatorship. Their Constitution specifically
bans running twice for president. Bukele's second election was 100%
illegal.
If you believe any data from him, I'm surprised. He just
locked up the opposition, made deals with the gang lords and stopped recording any murders. American right-wing social media played along propagating the #FAKE_NEWS.
BTW. I thought you defended a "minimum state". According to
our local paper Trump has ordered the armed forces to take to the
streets to defend whatever he decides IN US TERRITORY. Soldiers doing
police work. Shoot, then ask questions.
That's a MAXIMUM state. And a military dictatorship.
How do you feel about that? Should DOGE increase taxes to
finance this new, larger government? Or should the supreme court
impeach him?
Sorry, I forgot, in dictatorships the President does not
respect the Supreme Court. Or the Constitution.
[]'s
Repuglicans: It's not a dictatorship. The military are our
friends. Plus they only shoot democrats.....
On 6/8/2025 7:59 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 17:57:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<re - the right to a trial when accused of a crime>
Do you think that Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are any way a free country acts?
I think you're setting the limits for Trump rather low.
It's the only way to make trump look good.
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 15:26:54 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <2ta84k5178gqcnqegg78j6ouvlpn2f50gn@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Actually, as I explained, anyone who is officially accused of being an >>illegal has a due process right to provide evidence to the accusing >>official that he is not an illegal.
When you play it this way, you're putting 100% of your faith and trust
in the honesty of the official who is accusing you. That's not the way a >free country works.
There are mostly good LEOs out there. But there are some bad apples. You >don't give those bad apples that kind of power because they will simply
lie and abuse it.
Like I said, probably different levels of trust in the government, here.
If someone gets deported who shouldn't be deported it can be remedied
through the judicial system. That's been what's happening. Even the
obvious criminal Garcia has had people aruing his case.
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 07:46:18 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/7/2025 12:17 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 7:58 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder? <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >>>> workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who >>> gets deported."
As noted here previously, US citizens have full civil and process
rights. Legal resident aliens have some, but limited and green cards may >> be revoked. Temporary visa (of all types) holders may be removed "at the >> discretion of the Secretary of State".? Illegal aliens are subject to
deportation when and where discovered.
In a practical sense, a finding of fact (who is this guy really?) is
reasonable and prudent. That is not a trial.
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of >being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're >really illegal or not.
Actually, as I explained, anyone who is officially accused of being an illegal has a due process right to provide evidence to the accusing
official that he is not an illegal.
On 6/8/2025 8:06 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 18:02:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jun 7 07:46:18 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of >>> being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're >>> really illegal or not.
Would you find ig impossible to prove yourself a US citizen?
No, That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're
accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process,
whether you're really illegal or not.
Were you born without a birth certificate?
No, That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're
accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process,
whether you're really illegal or not.
You have never held a passport and you cannot get a Real ID?
I have both, That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if
you're accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due
process, whether you're really illegal or not.
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 18:02:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jun 7 07:46:18 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of >> being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're >> really illegal or not.
Would you find ig impossible to prove yourself a US citizen?
Obviously, if there was no "due process".
Were you born without a birth certificate?
I was. My father registered me AFTER I was born... If you had a birth certificate before you were born, I'd suspect you were an unlawful
UFO.
You have never held a passport and you cannot get a Real ID?
Irrelevant. When there is no due process the arresting police officer
decides if he wants to see it or not. A document is useless if no one
wants to see it.
In article <k1t74klekg812nqpk059mtrfptk3hb4f5g@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
nonsense... All law enforcement have elected or appointed management
and most have units desgnated to police the policemen.
I'm curious why you think we have courts, then.
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a workable solution.
I haven't questioned tommy's character in years. I know exactly what he is.
On 6/9/2025 4:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2025 1:54 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 00:16:24 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Tell us exactly what President Trump has done that you
don't like and offer us an alternative.
I've posted on that topic recently in response to one of
your posts. You should have read it, but your "memory" is
probably failing you, so here it is again:
He could stop executive actions that are quite obviously
illegal, as determined my many judges, including those he
himself appointed. He could appoint competent cabinet
members instead of incompetent, subservient lackeys. He
could stop avalanches of tweets that sound like bitchy
teenage girls' insults. He could stop using the office of
the presidency to line his pockets and those of his family
members. He could stop the war in Ukraine in one day, as he
promised - even though that would mean giving up his
domination by Putin. He could stop the crazy on-and-off
vacillation with tariffs. He could stop cozying up to
communists and stop attacking our long time allies.
There have been many more discussions of that point in other
places. Here's one dealing with his previous term of office:
"Donald Trump: He promised to cut the deficit. He added $8T
to it. He promised to build a wall. He only did 458 miles
out of 2,000. Most of it was repair or replacement, not new.
He promised to make Mexico pay. They didn't. He promised to
unveil a new healthcare plan. It didn't exist. He promised a
middle-class tax cut. He cut taxes for the rich. The middle
class is paying for it. He said he wouldn't play golf as
President. He made 250 visits(way more than Obama) to his
own golf clubs. It cost taxpayers $150 million. He said he'd
increase economic growth by 4%. He didn't. President Biden
did. He promised an infrastructure plan. He had none.
President Biden signed a massive one. He promised to hire
"the best people." He fired 3/4 of them and then said they
were the worst ever. He promised to bring down the price of
prescription drugs. He didn't: President Biden did. He
promised a Hillary lock-up. It didn't happen. Promised we'd
win the trade war with China. We didn't, It cost about a
quarter million jobs and hurt Americans not help them. He
promised his corporate tax cuts would help and benefit
Workers and corporations would use that money to invest in
American workers. They didn't, they used that money to buy
back stocks. He promised to bring back and revive the coal
industry. Never happened - more coal jobs were lost during
his presidency. He promised to drain the swamp. He didn't:
He WAS the swamp. Jan 6th?never forget!!"
I'll add that now he obviously IS the swamp.
There are several items which are arguable and somewhat
subjective but the 2017 tax reform benefited the middle and
2d quintile income taxpayers the most. See Table 2 here.
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
Note that the lowest 50% of employed USAians pay virtually
no income tax (payouts offset withholding ).
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
You're welcome opinion but there's the actual data.
Oh, and I (perhaps surprisingly to you) agree the 1st term
tariff changes were, on net, destructive for our working
taxpayers overall and US industry generally as well. Except
for Cleveland Cliffs, everyone else hurt, a lot.
There are several items which are arguable and somewhat
subjective but the 2017 tax reform benefited the middle and
2d quintile income taxpayers the most. See Table 2 here.
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
Note that the lowest 50% of employed USAians pay virtually
no income tax (payouts offset withholding ).
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
You're welcome opinion but there's the actual data.
Oh, and I (perhaps surprisingly to you) agree the 1st term
tariff changes were, on net, destructive for our working
taxpayers overall and US industry generally as well. Except
for Cleveland Cliffs, everyone else hurt, a lot.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:06:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote
The Birth Records of the US are now completely computerized
IOW, a public servant types/scans the data in...
and the details cannot be forged;
100 dollars will do it.
It is extremely unlikely that anyone is going to even try to forge citizenship records because even government officials don't know the codes.
Then how do they access/update it? If someone can access it,
someone can forge it.
You claim you were a programmer?
How do you accuse someone of being an illegal alien if the governments OWN system says that they are not?
The system is only accessed IF the guy that arrests you thinks
it's worth the bother.
He usually doesn't. You say you can prove you are " legal", he
says "nah, I don't think so, it's a Friday and your passport looks
forged, you're going to be deported".
And that's that. No due process.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:14:21 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 11:34:40 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/8/2025 7:59 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 17:57:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<re - the right to a trial when accused of a crime>
Do you think that Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are any way a free country acts?
I think you're setting the limits for Trump rather low.
It's the only way to make trump look good.
Then why was President Trump's approval ratings at 76+%? Feels really bad being such a loser doesn't it?
Trump has the lowest approval ratings of any President since
World War 2. far worse at 6 months than either Biden or Obama.
Where do you get your "facts" from?
I'm curious. 76% ? It's 41% and falling fast.
The same place he got 'china killed off half its population with the
covid vaccine'
https://i.imgflip.com/207e6q.jpg
On 6/9/2025 4:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:14:21 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 11:34:40 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/8/2025 7:59 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 17:57:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<re - the right to a trial when accused of a crime>
Do you think that Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are any way a free country acts?
I think you're setting the limits for Trump rather low.
It's the only way to make trump look good.
Then why was President Trump's approval ratings at 76+%? Feels really bad being such a loser doesn't it?
Please show the sources of your amazing facts. Otherwise, one might suspect that you're inventing them for the occasion.
"Donald Trump presidential approval rating in the United States from
2017 to 2021, and 2025" <https://www.statista.com/statistics/666113/approval-rate-of-donald-trump-for-the-presidential-job/>
His highest approval rating was 49% during the early pandemic year
(Jan 2020 to May 2020).
Gallup Poll): <https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx>
Trump's 2nd term approval rating was 47% -> 43% and is creeping
downward.
Aside from a couple of small blips in december and january where his favorability was a whopping +1.8%, trump has never had a net positive approval rating. Right now it's -5.8% and trending lower.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump
And just so ya know, RCP is a right leaning website.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:10:07 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Garcia is NOT a citizen and was brought back to answer crimnal charges of interstate transport of illegal aliens over a LONG period. There is no protection from those sorts of charges.
He worked in construction and drove his colleagues to work.
There is no mention if they were legal or not. If they were illegal,
it's strange the company that employed them was not fined.
He was fined once for driving with an expired license.
I really don't think driving with an expired license is more
serious than being a gang member(and possibly a drug
trafficker/murderer). That's reason they said he was sent to jail
without due process.
Yet they said they brought him back to try him for "more
serious crimes"(the expired driver's license).
He doesn't, because he believes everything the right wing media tells
him to believe.
On 6/9/2025 2:53 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/9/2025 2:36 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:10:07 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Garcia is NOT a citizen and was brought back to answer crimnal
charges of interstate transport of illegal aliens over a LONG period.
There is no protection from those sorts of charges.
He worked in construction and drove his colleagues to work.
There is no mention if they were legal or not. If they were illegal,
it's strange the company that employed them was not fined.
He was fined once for driving with an expired license.
I really don't think driving with an expired license is more >> serious than being a gang member(and possibly a drug
trafficker/murderer). That's reason they said he was sent to jail
without due process.
Yet they said they brought him back to try him for "more
serious crimes"(the expired driver's license).
LOL
Even you must be thinking that's strange.
Or maybe not.
He doesn't, because he believes everything the right wing media tells
him to believe.
Tom has gone far beyond that. He's believing what the weird voices in
his head are telling him to believe.
As one minor example, I don't think any media, no matter how far right,
have ever claimed Trump had a 76% approval rating. If that claim was
actually made, I'd love to see the source, just for fun.
And BTW, the others on this forum who lean rightward in their politics
really should be trying to discourage Tom's posting. He's making your position look really, really bad.
I usually do not but this morning I gave it my best.
To no avail.
p.s. Mr Kunich often begins with a true minuscule factoid
before launching off into outer space, crystals and
hallucinati9ns, all mixed.
Although I believe I share some of Tom's political positions, I
dispute the suggestion that politics expressed by one person on this
very small forum has any significance, regardless of how factual or
foolish it is.
Social media arguments (some people call them discussions) about
politics, religion, guns, bicycle helmets, etc almost always filter
down to what-aboutisms, gotcha traps, and childish name calling with
zero effect on anyone's opinions.
Unfortunately, people are influenced by the garbage they see and hear
from bureaucrats and media, but repeating it on social media has no
effect because nobody believes anything that comes from their
opponent's media, and usually, rightly so.
I try to stay clear of the Tom Kunich flame fests and generally, my
only "contribution" to the other arguments on RBT is to point out the foolishness of the arguers and the uselessness of the arguments.
I will express my opinion, but I refuse to be goaded into defending it
for the simple reason that it serves no purpose.
Some would say, and probably will say, that I can't defend my
opinions. However, my opinions are based on my own understanding of
what's right, what's wrong, what's good, and what's bad, and my
refusal to allow other people to influence it , and indeed, that is
difficult to explain further.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 16:33:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 15:27:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:06:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote
The Birth Records of the US are now completely computerized
IOW, a public servant types/scans the data in...
and the details cannot be forged;
100 dollars will do it.
It is extremely unlikely that anyone is going to even try to forge citizenship records because even government officials don't know the codes.
Then how do they access/update it? If someone can access it,
someone can forge it.
You claim you were a programmer?
How do you accuse someone of being an illegal alien if the governments OWN system says that they are not?
The system is only accessed IF the guy that arrests you thinks
it's worth the bother.
He usually doesn't. You say you can prove you are " legal", he
says "nah, I don't think so, it's a Friday and your passport looks
forged, you're going to be deported".
And that's that. No due process.
a backup of photographs of the entries, Naturalization records are even more trustworthy.Will you stopp with silly ass comments? The birth records are recorded at the time of birth. You CANNOT make post entries. If there is ANY question you simply refer to the written record. The dates and places are clear. There are digital records with
NO ONE can say "no you're not a citizen" if the record says otherwise. This isn't Brazil.
It's worse. There's "due process" in Brazil. No one can be
deported without defending himself in court, and the judge decides.
There ARE corrupt judges, which is what higher courts are for.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 17:31:26 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>though he hasn't been and will simply cop a plea and get 15 months
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 15:36:33 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:10:07 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Garcia is NOT a citizen and was brought back to answer crimnal charges of interstate transport of illegal aliens over a LONG period. There is no protection from those sorts of charges.
He worked in construction and drove his colleagues to work.
There is no mention if they were legal or not. If they were illegal,
it's strange the company that employed them was not fined.
He was fined once for driving with an expired license.
I really don't think driving with an expired license is more
serious than being a gang member(and possibly a drug
trafficker/murderer). That's reason they said he was sent to jail
without due process.
Yet they said they brought him back to try him for "more
serious crimes"(the expired driver's license).
Expired driver's license? Exactly why you left wind extremist claims? He was brought back to stand trial for interstate transportation of illegal aliens and every state line crossed between Texas and Tennesee he could be charged with the same crime
years. The indictment alleges Abrego Garcia transported undocumented people for private financial gain, meaning he would be subject to a maximum of 10 years in prison if he is convicted as he is charged""For count one, conspiracy to transport aliens, the maximum penalty is a fine, imprisonment for not more than 10 years or both.
For count two, unlawful transportation of undocumented aliens, the maximum term of imprisonment is five years, unless the offense was committed for "commercial advantage or private financial gain," in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10
He was an employee, not an employer. What did they charge the corporation that gave him the orders with?
Oh, they voted Trump? So I presume no charges at all.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 17:08:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 14:46:12 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
The same place he got 'china killed off half its population with the
covid vaccine'
https://i.imgflip.com/207e6q.jpg
I am curious why you feel the need to lie about everything? I never said that China used the covid vaccine bvecause they didn't.
Of course they did. It's called Sinovac.
Instead they injected spike proteins directly into the bloodstream which was highly dose dependent.
What? LOL. No ..... Sinovac is an inactivated whole virus
vaccine. Like Salk's vaccine for polio. It's so safe even pregnant
women, infants and cancer patients can take it.
hose that got too much simply died. Also China had violent lockdowns where people were actually welded into the flats unable to leave even to buy food.
OMG. Now I know what happens when people actually believe in
Fox "News".
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chinese+cities+appear+empty
India has semi good relations with China and their reporters are saying that ghost towns are3 everywhere.
They've been saying that for at least 4 decades.... and it's a
lie.
China says that this is just due to overbuilding in a boom.
No they don't.
But car traffic is also much less than before covid.
Probably better public transport. A lot of car traffic is a
sign public transport failed miserably.
I corrected your links. I believe you copy and pasted some psychopath's, because they included references to (many) crazy right
wing conspiracy theories.
China has empty towns because it plans 20-30 years ahead.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_China>
So many towns reported as "empty" 20 years ago are now
completely occupied. They plan, they build, they construct the infrastructure, build the industries.THEN they authorize people to
move in.
Which is why the Chinese economy is growing so fast. They PLAN
DECADES AHEAD.
It's not a "I decided today's tariffs are X %, I sold/bought
shares yesterday and made a fortune"
In article <8tr34kdp2ua48fkuvtoucj9qltq2puk36u@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
They call it "real Id," and it's easy to get.
Sure, I have that. I'm just saying you'd better not accidentally leave
your house without it if you don't want to risk being deported.
On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:19:57 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 23:23:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
And once again "cyclintom" inserts illegal code in his message. Eternal-September removed the content.
He said
"California DMV may very well issue driver's licences to illegals as
Real_ID and that is pretty sure. Probably 1/4th of the workers at the
DMV are already illegals."
To which I replied:
" LOL !!!
I love it. Keep it up!
On 6/6/2025 10:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 2:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 1:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Like most USAians, Mr Krygowski and I know what it is and do not have
Wow... You have no Real ID indication on your driver's licence? Do >>> you even know what it is?
it. I don't know his reason, but for me, why ever would I? meh.
When I last renewed my license, they asked if I wanted Real ID. I learned:
1) I could travel without it by carrying my passport. And I'd need a passport for international travel anyway.
2) I'd have to run home to fetch things like my passport, my birth certificate, my social security card, something like a utility bill addressed to me at home. And start over at the back of the line.
For what? So I don't have to carry my passport when I get on a plane?
A person who didn't provide similar documentation probably doesn't have
a Real ID, no matter what he thinks.
https://www.flhsmv.gov/driver-licenses-id-cards/what-to-bring/u-s-citizen/
But hey, ignorance is bliss.
And the right wingers went ballistic when Hillary Clinton suggested a federally issue ID card.....
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:55:39 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 2:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:14:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids. >>>>
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen
and walking around with no ID can get you arrested (depends
on the jurisdiction and circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/ >>>
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means
of support" is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to
the county line. Happened to me, long ago.
Vagrancy is another thing.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's an unclear issue, especially that some States hand out
ID and even driving licenses to illegal aliens. US citizen
vagrants would imaginably be unable to prove identity while
standing next to a deportable illegal with valid ID.
Again I take no position on this or that but "no ID" is a
very fuzzy standard.
For, probably, the majority, their birth certificate is all that is
need, as if yoy are born in the U.S. you are concidered a citizen.
On 6/5/2025 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:55:39 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 2:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:14:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were >>>>>> citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>>>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids.
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen
and walking around with no ID can get you arrested (depends
on the jurisdiction and circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/ >>>>
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means
of support" is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to
the county line. Happened to me, long ago.
Vagrancy is another thing.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's an unclear issue, especially that some States hand out
ID and even driving licenses to illegal aliens. US citizen
vagrants would imaginably be unable to prove identity while
standing next to a deportable illegal with valid ID.
Again I take no position on this or that but "no ID" is a
very fuzzy standard.
For, probably, the majority, their birth certificate is all that is
need, as if yoy are born in the U.S. you are concidered a citizen.
--
cheers,
John B.
I think we all agree that a finding of fact is necessary and
proper. (a finding of fact is not the same as a trial)
That said, who habitually carries a certified copy of a
birth certificate? No one I know at least.
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 13:55:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
I think we all agree that a finding of fact is necessary and proper. (a
finding of fact is not the same as a trial)
That said, who habitually? carries a certified copy of a birth
certificate?? No one I know at least.
Agreed. For my recent trip to California I had no "Real ID" so I used my >passport. But I'll confess to feeling nervous carrying that thing even >around the airport. There's certain documentation one would not want to >lose or misplace.
Wow... You have no Real ID indication on your driver's licence? Do
you even know what it is?
lol...now the state of california is hiring illegal immigrants...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 10:43:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 4:27 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 22:03:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/7/2025 4:32 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:38:26 -0400, Frank KrygowskiOK, we'll believe your dim recollection more than we'll believe the
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A person who didn't provide similar documentation probably doesn't have >>>>> a Real ID, no matter what he thinks.
https://www.flhsmv.gov/driver-licenses-id-cards/what-to-bring/u-s-citizen/
But hey, ignorance is bliss.
Florida has been issuing REAL ID status on driver's licenses since
2010. Neither my wife or myself recall ever taking our birth cert.... >>>
official State of Florida information.
Sure we will.
Who is the rest of the "we" you're speaking for? Your imaginary
friends?
The people here who have long ago decided our timid Floridian is both >deluded and obsessed with me.
Maybe he's got a Costco card instead? ;-) Today's news says
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tsa-just-banned-costco-cards-033225289.html
and includes this: "How do I get a REAL ID?" TSA's site reads, "Visit
your state?s driver?s licensing agency website to find out exactly what >documentation is required to obtain a REAL ID. At a minimum, you must >provide documentation showing: 1) Full Legal Name; 2) Date of Birth; 3) >Social Security Number; 4) Two Proofs of Address of Principal Residence; >and 5) Lawful Status."
I guess Costco is a less stringent way to get a gold star. Mr. Tricycle >qualifies! ;-)
"The people here who have long ago decided our timid Floridian is both deluded and obsessed with me."
It's not unusual for a narcissist to suggest that he speaks for other
people, even though he knows it's not true.
I doubt anyone else on RBT hates me as much as you and Junior, but if
they do, se la vie. I've got big shoulders.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:45:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local voting place. There was NO WAY you could have mistaken them as anything other than Mexicans. Most of them couldn't speak English and a large percentage were illiterate.
That's amazingly perceptive of you! I can't spot an illiterate person
just by looking at them.
You can sometimes tell by the t-shirt: <https://www.google.com/search?q=t-shirt%20spelling%20error&num=10&udm=2>
Not being able to read and write English does not make someone
illiterate. It's quite likely that they can read and write in their
native language (or dialect). However, in the USA, that would make
them functionally illiterate. <https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/functional-illiteracy>
My former office was next to a cleaning service which primarily hired
Spanish speaking workers. I was involved in a discussion when I
mentioned bi-lingual education in the schools. Some of the workers immediately spoke out (in English) that they did not want bi-lingual education for their children. Instead, they wanted only English
instruction. That's because knowing English will get them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
On 6/6/2025 11:01 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... they wanted only English
instruction. That's because knowing English will get them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
Same conclusion to the same problem by Italians 100 years ago.
A couple points here:
1) My grandparents were born in Poland, my parents born here. They spoke Polish in the home, but my parents never taught us the language. It was
clear they wanted us to be fully American. I now regret their choice.
Any language is difficult to learn later in life, and Polish is one of
the tougher European languages.
2) One dear friend of mine, for years, taught English As A Second
Language to immigrants. Amazingly, she had classes of 10 to 20 students
from a mixture of countries; so the majority not only had no English,
they had no languages in common with each other. Many were illiterate in
all languages, including their own. I can't possibly imagine how a
person could teach such a crew, but she had great success. Apparently
the objective was not perfect English. Instead it was survival - here's
how to use our money, our bus systems, find a job, etc. - but it worked.
When she left that job, I was invited to a "going away" party attended
by many of her former students. It was an amazing mixture of
nationalities (and ethnic foods and music). You could see they
absolutely loved that lady.
On 6/6/2025 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:45:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local voting place. There was NO WAY you could have mistaken them as anything other than Mexicans. Most of them couldn't speak English and a large percentage were illiterate.
That's amazingly perceptive of you! I can't spot an illiterate person
just by looking at them.
You can sometimes tell by the t-shirt: <https://www.google.com/search?q=t-shirt%20spelling%20error&num=10&udm=2>
Not being able to read and write English does not make someone
illiterate. It's quite likely that they can read and write in their
native language (or dialect). However, in the USA, that would make
them functionally illiterate. <https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/functional-illiteracy>
My former office was next to a cleaning service which primarily hired Spanish speaking workers. I was involved in a discussion when I
mentioned bi-lingual education in the schools. Some of the workers immediately spoke out (in English) that they did not want bi-lingual education for their children. Instead, they wanted only English instruction. That's because knowing English will get them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
Same conclusion to the same problem by Italians 100 years ago.
On 6/6/2025 1:09 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 11:01 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... they wanted only English
instruction. That's because knowing English will get
them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
Same conclusion to the same problem by Italians 100 years
ago.
A couple points here:
1) My grandparents were born in Poland, my parents born
here. They spoke Polish in the home, but my parents never
taught us the language. It was clear they wanted us to be
fully American. I now regret their choice. Any language is
difficult to learn later in life, and Polish is one of the
tougher European languages.
2) One dear friend of mine, for years, taught English As A
Second Language to immigrants. Amazingly, she had classes of
10 to 20 students from a mixture of countries; so the
majority not only had no English, they had no languages in
common with each other. Many were illiterate in all
languages, including their own. I can't possibly imagine how
a person could teach such a crew, but she had great success.
Apparently the objective was not perfect English. Instead it
was survival - here's how to use our money, our bus systems,
find a job, etc. - but it worked.
When she left that job, I was invited to a "going away"
party attended by many of her former students. It was an
amazing mixture of nationalities (and ethnic foods and
music). You could see they absolutely loved that lady.
Your family's experience mirrors mine. I have the same
feeling about the lost opportunity.
On 6/7/2025 12:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:24 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <pbq0Q.746378$qmJf.738823@fx16.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a Real ID in my pocket right now. All traveler outside of the
national boundaries has to show proof of citizenship (a passport) at
all times.
Indeed, you should carry it inside the national boundaries at all times, >> as well, since some people apparently think you can be deported without
a hearing if anyone suspects you of being in the country illegally.
Look, I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local
voting place.
I'm really curious how you knew for a fact they were illegal. But that's >> not really what I'm on about here.
What I'm on about is that without a hearing, any crooked cop could point >> a finger at you and have you deported to prison for life for being an
illegal immigrant. It's all about the due process.
Do you REALLY think that anything close to a majority voted for Biden?
I wasn't sure, but after Trump lost 60+ court cases trying to prove
illegal voting activity, I'm pretty confident that things were on the
up-and-up overall. 60+ court cases is a LOT of vetting. Hats off to
Trump for being so thorough. :)
That remains an open question as every one of those was dismissed or decided on standing, latches or other process issues. There was no
evidence or testimony entered into a court record. We just don't know (our own beliefs notwithstanding) and likely never will.
Questions remain such as https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9647421250
You realize that article doesn't support any allegations of fraud, right?
and the famous 2d graph here https://leeblynelle.pages.dev/xquypzf-popular-vote-2024-election-totals- eomysyb/
which may have innocuous explanations. Or not.
Frpom the first link:
"?We are getting very close to having some results from Wisconsin, and
I?m seeing a lot of questions like this one, which was directed to the Wisconsin Elections Commission on Twitter,? she said Wednesday morning.
?That weird-looking bump in the Wisconsin results is what happened when 170,000 absentee votes from the city of Milwaukee poured in all at once.
It?s not nefarious. It?s just counting.? "
On 6/8/2025 12:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 9:47 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2025 9:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2025 9:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:Andrew, how many of those cases were lost? Wasn't it more than 50?
On 6/7/2025 12:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:24 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:I'm unable to believe that _IF_ there were so many consequential
In article <pbq0Q.746378$qmJf.738823@fx16.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a Real ID in my pocket right now. All traveler outside of the >>>>>>> national boundaries has to show proof of citizenship (a passport) at >>>>>>> all times.
Indeed, you should carry it inside the national boundaries at all >>>>>> times,
as well, since some people apparently think you can be deported
without
a hearing if anyone suspects you of being in the country illegally. >>>>>>
Look, I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my >>>>>>> local
voting place.
I'm really curious how you knew for a fact they were illegal. But >>>>>> that's
not really what I'm on about here.
What I'm on about is that without a hearing, any crooked cop could >>>>>> point
a finger at you and have you deported to prison for life for being an >>>>>> illegal immigrant. It's all about the due process.
Do you REALLY think that anything close to a majority voted for >>>>>>> Biden?
I wasn't sure, but after Trump lost 60+ court cases trying to prove >>>>>> illegal voting activity, I'm pretty confident that things were on the >>>>>> up-and-up overall. 60+ court cases is a LOT of vetting. Hats off to >>>>>> Trump for being so thorough. :)
That remains an open question as every one of those was dismissed
or decided on standing, latches or other process issues. There was >>>>> no evidence or testimony entered into a court record. We just
don't know (our own beliefs notwithstanding) and likely never will. >>>>
election irregularities, the highly motivated Republican losers
could not have properly done their legal homework and proven their
case in court.
As it was, they lost again and again, for whatever reasons. My guess >>>> is they didn't try really hard because they knew their legal
protests were a sham.
Constitutionally this is the responsibility of the State legislatures
who are generally weak of spirit, as recent Congresses.
It's irrational fantasy to pretend there were massive problems that
radically changed election results, yet NO court cases were able to
prove that. It's beyond belief that _all_ Republican-hired lawyers
were that incompetent.
Lost? Not the same as filing not accepted or case dismissed ...
Would you prefer "not won"? Same [lack of] effect, same evaluation.
On 6/7/2025 12:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:24 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <pbq0Q.746378$qmJf.738823@fx16.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a Real ID in my pocket right now. All traveler outside of the
national boundaries has to show proof of citizenship (a passport) at
all times.
Indeed, you should carry it inside the national boundaries at all times, >> as well, since some people apparently think you can be deported without
a hearing if anyone suspects you of being in the country illegally.
Look, I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local
voting place.
I'm really curious how you knew for a fact they were illegal. But that's >> not really what I'm on about here.
What I'm on about is that without a hearing, any crooked cop could point >> a finger at you and have you deported to prison for life for being an
illegal immigrant. It's all about the due process.
Do you REALLY think that anything close to a majority voted for Biden?
I wasn't sure, but after Trump lost 60+ court cases trying to prove
illegal voting activity, I'm pretty confident that things were on the
up-and-up overall. 60+ court cases is a LOT of vetting. Hats off to
Trump for being so thorough. :)
That remains an open question as every one of those was dismissed or decided on standing, latches or other process issues. There was no
evidence or testimony entered into a court record. We just don't know (our own beliefs notwithstanding) and likely never will.
I'm unable to believe that _IF_ there were so many consequential
election irregularities, the highly motivated Republican losers could
not have properly done their legal homework and proven their case in court.
As it was, they lost again and again, for whatever reasons. My guess is
they didn't try really hard because they knew their legal protests were
a sham.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 493 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 191:18:38 |
| Calls: | 9,707 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 13,740 |
| Messages: | 6,180,052 |
