On 6/1/2025 9:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Hard fact is that illegals do not enjoy the same Due Process asStraw man alert. IIRC, nobody here ever claimed illegal immigrants have
citizens.
the _same_ due process rights as citizens.
But they are still supposed to get _some_ due process rights. At least,
they should be actually determined to be here illegally. As news stories
have shown, that's sometimes being violated.
In article <pnct3k1grlt8flup51ass2pgtactgkfnrd@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I believe that is the current "level of care."
That level of care requires judicial oversight that we are not currently maintaining, so it's not the current level.
I haven't seen anyone sent to the Salvadorian prison who doesn't belong >there.
When it comes to the Constitution, what matters is what the courts have
seen, not what you or I have seen.
What's the rush? You have the guy in custody--he's not a threat. Give
him a hearing. Maybe during the hearing you'll find that it was illegal
for you to deport him to El Salvador *before* you do it, and you can
deport him, legally, to a different country.
In article <101i16r$2ados$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I believe he's referring to ID/arrest errors. They have happened. They
are few. They been well publicized.
The ones you know of, anyway.
One of the reason that due process is so important for everyone is so
the government can't just point its finger at *you*, say "MS-13", and
put you on a plane to a foreign prison from which they have no power to remove you.
Why would they do that? Maybe you're here illegally and have a tattoo.
Or maybe you just said something someone didn't like and "oops" you're
gone. "Our mistake, sorry. No, we can't bring him home. So sorry about
that."
but administrative remedies are established.
Unless you're in a Salvadorian prison, in which case they aren't.
Franklin said he'd rather see 100 criminals go free before one innocent person was incarcerated. That's the level of care we should be taking.
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so
you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the
country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to
waive this right.
He should, but he doesn't. He believes - under the current
administration - that onus probandi is on the defendant. With regards to
this administration and their cult of followers, it's now "guilty until proven innocent", with the caveat that they'll be shipped out of the
country before they have a chance to prove it.
Once a democrat is back in the oval office, he'll change his opinion and accuse them of gestapo tactics.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the
community.
On 6/4/2025 10:09 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the community.
[]'s
Exactly - the memo had no "anti-catholic" bias whatsoever. It was
targeted at a specific individual who "expressed neo-Nazi rhetoric and described himself as a "Catholic clerical fascist." The FBI said he
wrote in a letter to a family member that he needed to "build guns, explosives, and other forms of weaponry" in order to "make total war
against the Satanic occultist government and the Zionist devil
worshiping bankers who control it."
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU13/20250225/117924/HHRG-119-JU13-20250225-SD012-U12.pdf
the memo gave guidance for looking into how he may have become
radicalized at his church.
Painting it as Biden attacking catholics at large is yet another example
of right wing sensationalist bullshit.
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no details for
"gathering information about Catholic traditionalist groups" etc. It
seems odd that the FBI would suddenly be paranoid about religious people
who espouse conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another right wing political
organization drumming up outrage.
On 6/4/2025 11:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-
distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no
details for "gathering information about Catholic
traditionalist groups" etc. It seems odd that the FBI would
suddenly be paranoid about religious people who espouse
conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly
what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually
connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another
right wing political organization drumming up outrage.
A bit more on that here:
https://www.wmal.com/2025/06/04/fbi-targeting-of-catholics-was-bigger-than-biden-officials-acknowledged/
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so >>>> you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country >>> illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the
country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to
waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a hearing to >verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:29:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/4/2025 11:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-
distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no
details for "gathering information about Catholic
traditionalist groups" etc. It seems odd that the FBI would
suddenly be paranoid about religious people who espouse
conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly
what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually
connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another
right wing political organization drumming up outrage.
A bit more on that here:
https://www.wmal.com/2025/06/04/fbi-targeting-of-catholics-was-bigger-than-biden-officials-acknowledged/
What's a "Radical Traditionalist Catholic?"
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a hearing?
In article <tsb04kl6rvdr08rr6i0gaqs5kchg93ako7@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Good grief... I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical question >about something that's not going to happen.
These two things have already happened:
* U.S. citizens have been arrested by ICE under the pretense that they
were illegal.
* People have been deported before getting a proper hearing.
So the hypothetical isn't far fetched. We're looking at it.
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or
else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids.
On 6/5/2025 2:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:14:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids. >>>
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen
and walking around with no ID can get you arrested (depends
on the jurisdiction and circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/ >>
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means
of support" is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to
the county line. Happened to me, long ago.
Vagrancy is another thing.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's an unclear issue, especially that some States hand out
ID and even driving licenses to illegal aliens. US citizen
vagrants would imaginably be unable to prove identity while
standing next to a deportable illegal with valid ID.
Again I take no position on this or that but "no ID" is a
very fuzzy standard.
In article <101smqg$1mfi9$2@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen and walking >around with no ID can get you arrested (depends on the jurisdiction and >circumstances).
Let's say a person is arrested without ID.
Are you claiming these two subsequent paths of action are identical?
1. Jailed, receives hearing.
2. Jailed, does not receive hearing, is deported.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 16:09:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/5/2025 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder? <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids. >>>
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen and walking
around with no ID can get you arrested (depends on the jurisdiction and
circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-
identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/
There's a difference between refusing to identify yourself and not >producing identification. The former is generally what your links are >referring to. Failure to produce identification isn't an offense...yet
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means of support"
is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to the county line.? Happened >> to me, long ago.
There aren't many enforced statutes anymore for failure to produce ID,
in large part due to the 1972 SCoTUS ruling in Papachristou v.
Jacksonville which invalidated the Jacksonville vagrancy law as >"unconstitutionally vague" (aka "Void for Vagueness").
The ruling was unanimous and forced states to amend their vagrancy and >loitering laws to the extent that vagrancy is no longer anything more
than an insult.
https://www.law.virginia.edu/scholarship/publication/risa-goluboff/640716
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papachristou_v._City_of_Jacksonville
.
Supposedly the "real Id" thing corrected that, but it would surprise
me if some blue states issued them to illegals.
On 6/5/2025 12:15 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 7:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
kilmar-abrego-garciaOn Wed, 4 Jun 2025 13:27:52 +0200, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 11:52 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> >>>> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any
crimes, so
you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed >>>>>>> any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the >>>>>>> country
illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the >>>>>>> country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that >>>>>>> you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to >>>>>>> waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a
hearing to
verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a >>> hearing?
Good grief... I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical question >> about something that's not going to happen.
... if you're white enough!
Or not:
Fabian Schmidt, German citizen, electrical engineer living in the US
since 2008, and with a green card since 2015. Detained by ICE at Logan Airport in Boston then held in ICE detention centers for two months. Why?
https://www.newsweek.com/green-card-fabian-schmidt-holder-detained-ice-immigratioon-2072698
While living in California:
"a 2016 drug-related offense in California that was eventually dismissed
and a DUI from the same year that led to fines and a probation sentence."
In other words, he was charged, and paid the penalties. But then:
"He alleged that authorities conducted a strip search, confiscated his smartwatch, and refused to let him contact a lawyer, the German
consulate or his family."
"A few days after being detained, Schmidt said he was transported in
shackles to the Donald W. Wyatt Detention Facility in Rhode Island....
After nearly two months in detention, Schmidt received word that he
would be released."
Another stellar case of the trump administration rooting out the worst
of the worst.
On 6/5/2025 3:59 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 00:15:09 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gXXmail.com> wrote:
On 6/4/2025 7:43 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
kilmar-abrego-garciaOn Wed, 4 Jun 2025 13:27:52 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 11:52 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> >>>>> wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so
you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any
crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country
illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the >>>>>>>> country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you
get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to >>>>>>>> waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a hearing to
verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a >>>> hearing?
Good grief... I'm not going to respond to your hypothetical question >>> about something that's not going to happen.
... if you're white enough!
That's from the guy who actually bragged about riding through a neighborhood of people of other races.
Today I'm planning a solo ride through the inner city, partly to visit
a new library on the far side of town. I'll be riding on <gasp!>
ordinary streets. Many of those streets will have <oh my!> people of
other races living there.
--Frank Krygowski https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Zu_BtGgv8Fs/m/vkwxt_GNBQAJ?hl=en&hl=en
Everybody else here understood the sarcasm, as clearly indicated by the "<gasp!>" and "<oh my!>".
But I suppose if a person is too timid to interact with others in normal life, obvious conversational clues might be confusing.
:-) And how interesting that our timid tricyclist is saving my posts
for reference! Talk about obsessions!
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:38:08 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 05:52:39 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:23:34 +0200, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
wrote:
Am 04.06.2025 um 10:31 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 01:10:55 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> >> >> wrote:
In article <d3vu3k5sec04fbqhmm6sjdktd2t9t5v81r@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so >> >>>> you needn't worry.
I'm not worried that you're in the US illegally or have committed any >> >>> crimes. I'm worried that the government will *say* you're in the country
illegally and then ship you off.
There is no law that says the government cannot say you are in the
country illegally. The only thing protecting you is the fact that you >> >>> get a hearing.
You clearly trust the government far more than I do to be willing to >> >>> waive this right.
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
Do you mean "people who claim to be US citizens" should get a hearing to >> >verify whether they are indeed US citizens?
No
can remain anonymous.This can very easily meet the require4ments of the Constitution using a study group. You can even split it between Democrats and Republicans because NO Democrat wants his name tied to holding a violent criminal in the US. They only do this when they
I just want all the illegals out of here. The sooner the better.
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 22:39:28 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 3 21:31:05 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <pnct3k1grlt8flup51ass2pgtactgkfnrd@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I believe that is the current "level of care."
That level of care requires judicial oversight that we are not currently >> maintaining, so it's not the current level.
I haven't seen anyone sent to the Salvadorian prison who doesn't belong >> >there.
When it comes to the Constitution, what matters is what the courts have
seen, not what you or I have seen.
What's the rush? You have the guy in custody--he's not a threat. Give
him a hearing. Maybe during the hearing you'll find that it was illegal
for you to deport him to El Salvador *before* you do it, and you can
deport him, legally, to a different country.
come to the US to practice their trade. I have a next door neighbor who illegally has no insurance, damaged my car and then because their own was dented Gavin Newsom bought them a new Toyota SUV and a new |Mustang musclke car. And that was just lastAre you saying you're willing to foot the bill for paying for enough prisons to house these people until the inrvitsble "tguilty" sends them on their way. Those sections of the Constitution were written when the Democrats weren't peying criminals to
Gavin Handsome ALWAYS gives new cars to republicans. It's why republicans never move away from California. They LOVE him.
On 6/4/2025 9:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2025 3:29 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 19:20:36 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/3/2025 7:02 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 18:37:18 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 6/3/2025 5:57 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 22:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <o1ru3kl764qpqjn2g921laptlm89n6u571@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
There are thousand of illegals. It would take years and $$$$$ to >>>>>>>> process them all through the courts... and besides, it's not >>>>>>>> necessary.
I sincerely hope for your sake you never have the finger pointed >>>>>>> at you
through administrative error.
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so >>>>>> you needn't worry.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's not that. It's the possibility of an error such as I
referenced recently:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/09/08/elderly-new-jersey-woman-
jailed-for-two-weeks-in-wrongful-arrest-cant-sue-u-s-marshals-
court-rules/
IMHO that woman is owed a lot and formal public apologies
all around. But so far nada. (p.s. note dates in that story)
I hope she get's big bucks and the people behind the arrest loose
their jobs and their pensions. Mistakes have occurred in all areas of >>>> law enforcement.... but still, we cannot process all the illegals
through the court systems. In the mean time, I'm not going to worry
about being misidentified and sent to prison any more than I worry
about getting hit with a meteorite
--
C'est bon
Soloman
OK that's reasonable, but Mr Jorgensen has a point.
She's not an one-off. There are a couple dozen of those
every year. Every year.
Suing for false arrest and then for damages is a dicey
process depending on jurisdiction and the personalities
involved.
The Statutes are clear about illegal alien criminals. Then
again, the laws are very clear about US citizens' civil
rights too...
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a
workable solution.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Especially since their entry lacked any individual certification or validation, just an intentional abuse of 'humanitarian parole' a few million at a time, repeatedly.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/humanitarian_parole
Well gee, maybe if they concentrated on actual criminals rather than:
- soccer moms who have lived under the radar for 20 years, paid taxes,
and were active in their church, https://www.yahoo.com/news/small-town-rallies-around-soccer-143123445.html
- PhD students who did no more than publish an article critical of their school https://apnews.com/article/ozturk-tufts-mahdawi-columbia-students-detained-034d97a7e280c68a7d1fb6aa879ce87c
- honor role high school students whose father was wanted for a misdemeanor https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/our-life-is-here-father-of-milford-high-school-student-detained-by-ice-breaks-silence/3731289/
"Marcelo is an 18-year-old high school junior who entered the United
States lawfully when he was just barely 7-years old," his attorney,
Robin Nice, said in a statement. "He is deeply rooted in his community ? active in his church, a dedicated member of both his high school
marching band and church band, and surrounded by friends, teachers, and mentors who care deeply about him."
they might have time to give them due process as guaranteed by the constitution.
But, I guess in magatard world, soccer moms, PhD candidates, and high
school honor students are the worst of the worst, and deserve to be
deported without due process.
On 6/3/2025 7:02 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 18:37:18 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/3/2025 5:57 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 22:10:14 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> >>> wrote:
In article <o1ru3kl764qpqjn2g921laptlm89n6u571@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
There are thousand of illegals. It would take years and $$$$$ to
process them all through the courts... and besides, it's not
necessary.
I sincerely hope for your sake you never have the finger pointed at you >>>> through administrative error.
I'm neither in the USA illegally, nor have I committed any crimes, so
you needn't worry.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's not that. It's the possibility of an error such as I
referenced recently:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/09/08/elderly-new-jersey-woman-jailed-for-two-weeks-in-wrongful-arrest-cant-sue-u-s-marshals-court-rules/
IMHO that woman is owed a lot and formal public apologies
all around. But so far nada. (p.s. note dates in that story)
I hope she get's big bucks and the people behind the arrest loose
their jobs and their pensions. Mistakes have occurred in all areas of
law enforcement.... but still, we cannot process all the illegals
through the court systems. In the mean time, I'm not going to worry
about being misidentified and sent to prison any more than I worry
about getting hit with a meteorite
--
C'est bon
Soloman
OK that's reasonable, but Mr Jorgensen has a point.
She's not an one-off. There are a couple dozen of those
every year. Every year.
Suing for false arrest and then for damages is a dicey
process depending on jurisdiction and the personalities
involved.
The Statutes are clear about illegal alien criminals. Then
again, the laws are very clear about US citizens' civil
rights too...
Which doesn't negate their right to due process
In article <2ta84k5178gqcnqegg78j6ouvlpn2f50gn@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Actually, as I explained, anyone who is officially accused of being an >illegal has a due process right to provide evidence to the accusing >official that he is not an illegal.
When you play it this way, you're putting 100% of your faith and trust
in the honesty of the official who is accusing you. That's not the way a
free country works.
There are mostly good LEOs out there. But there are some bad apples. You don't give those bad apples that kind of power because they will simply
lie and abuse it.
Like I said, probably different levels of trust in the government, here.
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're really illegal or not.
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who
gets deported."
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 00:58:52 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >>workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who >gets deported."
The SCOTUS says it's not necessary for illegals.
A judicial system hearing was never a requirement for the deportation
of illegals. Their due process rights are extremely limited. Temporary
vizas can be revoked without warning.
That's the law. Write your congressman if you want it changed.
On 6/6/2025 11:48 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 00:58:52 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >>> workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who
gets deported."
This all seems a bit confusing as since at least 60 years ago the U.S.
had a workable immigration system. You want visit the U.S. you go to
the U.S.Embassy, they determine what you want to do and they give you
the forms, you filled them out and they approved or disapprove them.
For example when my Thai wife wanted to visit her sister (G.I. wife)
she had to provide proof that she as sufficient funds to reside in the
U.S. for the period of the visit and to return to Thailand.
Only then would they issue a visa.
Without a visa a foreigner couldn't legally enter the U.S.
That's what the Statutes specify.
On 6/6/2025 7:58 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a
workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who gets deported."
As noted here previously, US citizens have full civil and
process rights. Legal resident aliens have some, but limited
and green cards may be revoked. Temporary visa (of all
types) holders may be removed "at the discretion of the
Secretary of State". Illegal aliens are subject to
deportation when and where discovered.
In a practical sense, a finding of fact (who is this guy
really?) is reasonable and prudent. That is not a trial.
It's not that. It's the possibility of an error such as I
referenced recently:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/09/08/elderly-new-jersey-woman-jailed-for-two-weeks-in-wrongful-arrest-cant-sue-u-s-marshals-court-rules/
IMHO that woman is owed a lot and formal public apologies
all around. But so far nada. (p.s. note dates in that story)
On 6/5/2025 11:59 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was
unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
Tommy persists in thinking that trump is unquestionable good. Trumps
handling of covid 19 as well as the current shitshow in the white house
has taught him nothing at all.
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 05:24:50 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:59:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<S.>
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
The Biden administration and their cohorts in state governments used
the disease as an excuse to take control of people's private lives and
take away their civil liberties.
https://reason.com/2024/12/10/civil-liberties-lost-under-covid/"Throughout his time in office, Biden empowered officials to violate Americans' liberties in the name of fighting COVID-19. There is little evidence those policies worked."
Sorry, I can't agree with that last sentence as Thailand did apply
thoser very same policies, the resuit?
U.S. -
cases 1 million population 333,985
deaths per 1 million population 3842
Thailand -
Cases 1 million population 68,069
Deaths 1 million population 494
In article <g1104kpnld069op5s12ddfjpaas7360a82@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
So if the government says you're not a US citizen (even if you are), you don't get a hearing. This is a planet-sized loophole, you see?
On 6/5/2025 8:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/5/2025 6:42 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 13:27:52 2025 Rolf Mantel wrote:
So you claim to be a US citizen, the government claim you're not.
Should you get a hearing or should the government deport you without a >>> hearing?
hat is not an argument Rolf. You cannot argue with either an honest
birth certificate or now a Real ID. Birth Certificates are certified
at the time and place of your birth.
I have no doubt that 'Real ID' will be counterfeited equally as well as current ID. Post haste.
For a while I consulted for a company that produced commercial
holograms. While I was there, they got a request - thinly disguised - to forge whatever hologram is built into California drivers' licenses. They refused, of course.
I suspect someone will soon find a way to counterfeit Real ID.
Apparently, Junior believes everything he's told by the leftist media.
um...no.
The named judge in that article - Judge David M. Jones - made absolutely
no determination of any gang affiliation. Judge Jones order is linked in
the article so you can read it yourself. (here for convenience https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V_yaacfwjS6i02eeCaHoPh64tGvySkVO/)
Regarding any alleged gang affiliation, The link you provided has no
more information than "two [unnamed] judges determined he is likely to
be a member of the Central American gang, Mara Salvatrucha".
It's heresay, and there has been no evidence produced by anyone that Mr. Garcia had any gang affiliation. More trump DOJ bullshit.
That 'information' is no where in that link or video, and only made as
an unsubstantiated claim in other TS links.
Be any of that as it may, The issue of transporting people for money is
not by _any_ definition "human smuggling".
You'll note the TS had the due diligence to posted the entire order from Judge Jones' stay-in-us order via a link, yet for some reason has no
other information on "two judges found him likely to be affiliated with
MS13" other than that unsubstantiated claim (made in several of their stories).
That was information spoon-fed to the TS by the administration, which if
true would be rather easy to validate.
This is similar to the case of the Milford MA high school student
detained by ICE. After the arrest, ICE said it was his father they were looking for becasue:
"Federal immigration authorities said he "has a habit of reckless
driving at speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour through residential
areas endangering Massachusetts residents."
At least in Massachusetts, you don't get to walk free if you pulled over doing 100 in a residential area, let alone if you make a "habit" of it
(I should know, my license was suspended once in the 80's for doing 50
in a 25).
If it were true, it would be easy enough to verify. IOW - just more made
up bullshit from trump ICE to cover their asses.
Good luck with that if you're ever stopped by State Patrol.
I'll try to remember that the next time I get paid to drive people
across state lines for money.
On 6/6/2025 6:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Update this afternoon regarding Mr Abrego Garcia.
3-1/2 minute video is on the 2d screen/page here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-way-back-185850961.html
This sounds a lot closer to what the Founding Fathers intended, compared
to "Deport him!" and "Oops, we goofed but we can't fix it."
On 6/6/2025 9:54 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 6:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Update this afternoon regarding Mr Abrego Garcia.
3-1/2 minute video is on the 2d screen/page here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-way-
back-185850961.html
This sounds a lot closer to what the Founding Fathers
intended, compared to "Deport him!" and "Oops, we goofed but
we can't fix it."
All his deplorable criminal activities aside, he has a prior
deportation order fer chrissake. What does it take to
enforce a Statute??
On 6/8/2025 9:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Ally??
I'm as critical of Mr Kunich's misstatements as anyone but there are
times he's been correct and I said so.
I don't believe Frank accused you of that.
In article <1020f63$2pd7f$4@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
In our Constitution, the Article III courts may only decide "cases and >controversies" by applying the laws as written. They have no policy, >legislative or oversight authority.
My point is that if you are wrongly arrested, the courts can free you.
That "oversight" is what I'm referring to.
On 6/7/2025 12:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2025 10:06 AM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1020f63$2pd7f$4@dont-email.me>, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
In our Constitution, the Article III courts may only decide "cases and >>> controversies" by applying the laws as written. They have no policy,
legislative or oversight authority.
My point is that if you are wrongly arrested, the courts can free you.
That "oversight" is what I'm referring to.
Yes, they can order your release when your case is presented to them, by you or your agent, requesting such. No case = no authority.
Which is exactly the point. When you deny due process there is no case.
On 6/8/2025 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and
we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for >> tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there are many valid criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did. That's something.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Yet almost nobody wants
another Mussolini. Not even you, I'll bet.
On 6/8/2025 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and
we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for >> tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there are many valid criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did. That's something.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Yet almost nobody wants
another Mussolini. Not even you, I'll bet.
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 00:16:24 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> >>> wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom? <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and >>>> we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
????Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for
tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
????[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there are many valid >> criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did.? That's something.
And Mussolini made the trains run on time. Yet almost nobody wants
another Mussolini. Not even you, I'll bet.
What's a man to do when he has a need for "look at me" attention and
he can't think of anything significant to say about the subject being discussed?
Well, he can always come up with an insignificant strawman.
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 19:12:59 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 5:53 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 01:42:07 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <A6p0Q.372615$K3w3.210965@fx05.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
why would El Salvador have a warrany out in his name.
No idea. Maybe that's a good item to bring before a US court.
Is it your belief they have unlimited prison space?
It's relatively unlimited. Trump asked Bukele to build five more and
we're paying him for all the prisoners he takes.
Bukele has turned prisons into business. It's a lose-lose for
tax payers. They foot the bill (Trump probably gets his 20%. as does
Bukele) and Americans have to pay more for commodities produced by
foreigners.
[]'s
You may dislike him and as with any national leader there
are many valid criticisms.
That said, he promised to stop the gangs and he did. That's
something.
https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/
It's a military dictatorship. Their Constitution specifically
bans running twice for president. Bukele's second election was 100%
illegal.
If you believe any data from him, I'm surprised. He just
locked up the opposition, made deals with the gang lords and stopped recording any murders. American right-wing social media played along propagating the #FAKE_NEWS.
BTW. I thought you defended a "minimum state". According to
our local paper Trump has ordered the armed forces to take to the
streets to defend whatever he decides IN US TERRITORY. Soldiers doing
police work. Shoot, then ask questions.
That's a MAXIMUM state. And a military dictatorship.
How do you feel about that? Should DOGE increase taxes to
finance this new, larger government? Or should the supreme court
impeach him?
Sorry, I forgot, in dictatorships the President does not
respect the Supreme Court. Or the Constitution.
[]'s
Repuglicans: It's not a dictatorship. The military are our
friends. Plus they only shoot democrats.....
On 6/8/2025 7:59 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 17:57:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<re - the right to a trial when accused of a crime>
Do you think that Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are any way a free country acts?
I think you're setting the limits for Trump rather low.
It's the only way to make trump look good.
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 15:26:54 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us>
wrote:
In article <2ta84k5178gqcnqegg78j6ouvlpn2f50gn@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Actually, as I explained, anyone who is officially accused of being an >>illegal has a due process right to provide evidence to the accusing >>official that he is not an illegal.
When you play it this way, you're putting 100% of your faith and trust
in the honesty of the official who is accusing you. That's not the way a >free country works.
There are mostly good LEOs out there. But there are some bad apples. You >don't give those bad apples that kind of power because they will simply
lie and abuse it.
Like I said, probably different levels of trust in the government, here.
If someone gets deported who shouldn't be deported it can be remedied
through the judicial system. That's been what's happening. Even the
obvious criminal Garcia has had people aruing his case.
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 07:46:18 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/7/2025 12:17 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 7:58 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <3h004kdpcjthllq8iplvuotaqhh0qunmgv@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder? <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a >>>> workable solution.
"Dear Founding Fathers,
"This whole 'due process' thing just isn't practical. So we're just
going to cut the judicial system out and let law enforcement decide who >>> gets deported."
As noted here previously, US citizens have full civil and process
rights. Legal resident aliens have some, but limited and green cards may >> be revoked. Temporary visa (of all types) holders may be removed "at the >> discretion of the Secretary of State".? Illegal aliens are subject to
deportation when and where discovered.
In a practical sense, a finding of fact (who is this guy really?) is
reasonable and prudent. That is not a trial.
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of >being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're >really illegal or not.
Actually, as I explained, anyone who is officially accused of being an illegal has a due process right to provide evidence to the accusing
official that he is not an illegal.
On 6/8/2025 8:06 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 18:02:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jun 7 07:46:18 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of >>> being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're >>> really illegal or not.
Would you find ig impossible to prove yourself a US citizen?
No, That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're
accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process,
whether you're really illegal or not.
Were you born without a birth certificate?
No, That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're
accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process,
whether you're really illegal or not.
You have never held a passport and you cannot get a Real ID?
I have both, That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if
you're accused of being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due
process, whether you're really illegal or not.
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 18:02:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jun 7 07:46:18 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's not the point. According to floriduh dumbass if you're accused of >> being an illegal immigrant you shouldn't get due process, whether you're >> really illegal or not.
Would you find ig impossible to prove yourself a US citizen?
Obviously, if there was no "due process".
Were you born without a birth certificate?
I was. My father registered me AFTER I was born... If you had a birth certificate before you were born, I'd suspect you were an unlawful
UFO.
You have never held a passport and you cannot get a Real ID?
Irrelevant. When there is no due process the arresting police officer
decides if he wants to see it or not. A document is useless if no one
wants to see it.
In article <k1t74klekg812nqpk059mtrfptk3hb4f5g@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
nonsense... All law enforcement have elected or appointed management
and most have units desgnated to police the policemen.
I'm curious why you think we have courts, then.
Mr Jorgensen seems to want each illegal to get a hearing. That's not a workable solution.
I haven't questioned tommy's character in years. I know exactly what he is.
On 6/9/2025 4:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2025 1:54 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 00:16:24 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
Tell us exactly what President Trump has done that you
don't like and offer us an alternative.
I've posted on that topic recently in response to one of
your posts. You should have read it, but your "memory" is
probably failing you, so here it is again:
He could stop executive actions that are quite obviously
illegal, as determined my many judges, including those he
himself appointed. He could appoint competent cabinet
members instead of incompetent, subservient lackeys. He
could stop avalanches of tweets that sound like bitchy
teenage girls' insults. He could stop using the office of
the presidency to line his pockets and those of his family
members. He could stop the war in Ukraine in one day, as he
promised - even though that would mean giving up his
domination by Putin. He could stop the crazy on-and-off
vacillation with tariffs. He could stop cozying up to
communists and stop attacking our long time allies.
There have been many more discussions of that point in other
places. Here's one dealing with his previous term of office:
"Donald Trump: He promised to cut the deficit. He added $8T
to it. He promised to build a wall. He only did 458 miles
out of 2,000. Most of it was repair or replacement, not new.
He promised to make Mexico pay. They didn't. He promised to
unveil a new healthcare plan. It didn't exist. He promised a
middle-class tax cut. He cut taxes for the rich. The middle
class is paying for it. He said he wouldn't play golf as
President. He made 250 visits(way more than Obama) to his
own golf clubs. It cost taxpayers $150 million. He said he'd
increase economic growth by 4%. He didn't. President Biden
did. He promised an infrastructure plan. He had none.
President Biden signed a massive one. He promised to hire
"the best people." He fired 3/4 of them and then said they
were the worst ever. He promised to bring down the price of
prescription drugs. He didn't: President Biden did. He
promised a Hillary lock-up. It didn't happen. Promised we'd
win the trade war with China. We didn't, It cost about a
quarter million jobs and hurt Americans not help them. He
promised his corporate tax cuts would help and benefit
Workers and corporations would use that money to invest in
American workers. They didn't, they used that money to buy
back stocks. He promised to bring back and revive the coal
industry. Never happened - more coal jobs were lost during
his presidency. He promised to drain the swamp. He didn't:
He WAS the swamp. Jan 6th?never forget!!"
I'll add that now he obviously IS the swamp.
There are several items which are arguable and somewhat
subjective but the 2017 tax reform benefited the middle and
2d quintile income taxpayers the most. See Table 2 here.
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
Note that the lowest 50% of employed USAians pay virtually
no income tax (payouts offset withholding ).
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
You're welcome opinion but there's the actual data.
Oh, and I (perhaps surprisingly to you) agree the 1st term
tariff changes were, on net, destructive for our working
taxpayers overall and US industry generally as well. Except
for Cleveland Cliffs, everyone else hurt, a lot.
There are several items which are arguable and somewhat
subjective but the 2017 tax reform benefited the middle and
2d quintile income taxpayers the most. See Table 2 here.
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
Note that the lowest 50% of employed USAians pay virtually
no income tax (payouts offset withholding ).
https://www.cato.org/blog/distribution-tables-distort-tax-policy-debate
You're welcome opinion but there's the actual data.
Oh, and I (perhaps surprisingly to you) agree the 1st term
tariff changes were, on net, destructive for our working
taxpayers overall and US industry generally as well. Except
for Cleveland Cliffs, everyone else hurt, a lot.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:06:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote
The Birth Records of the US are now completely computerized
IOW, a public servant types/scans the data in...
and the details cannot be forged;
100 dollars will do it.
It is extremely unlikely that anyone is going to even try to forge citizenship records because even government officials don't know the codes.
Then how do they access/update it? If someone can access it,
someone can forge it.
You claim you were a programmer?
How do you accuse someone of being an illegal alien if the governments OWN system says that they are not?
The system is only accessed IF the guy that arrests you thinks
it's worth the bother.
He usually doesn't. You say you can prove you are " legal", he
says "nah, I don't think so, it's a Friday and your passport looks
forged, you're going to be deported".
And that's that. No due process.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:14:21 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 11:34:40 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/8/2025 7:59 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 17:57:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<re - the right to a trial when accused of a crime>
Do you think that Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are any way a free country acts?
I think you're setting the limits for Trump rather low.
It's the only way to make trump look good.
Then why was President Trump's approval ratings at 76+%? Feels really bad being such a loser doesn't it?
Trump has the lowest approval ratings of any President since
World War 2. far worse at 6 months than either Biden or Obama.
Where do you get your "facts" from?
I'm curious. 76% ? It's 41% and falling fast.
The same place he got 'china killed off half its population with the
covid vaccine'
https://i.imgflip.com/207e6q.jpg
On 6/9/2025 4:17 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:14:21 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 11:34:40 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/8/2025 7:59 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 17:57:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
<re - the right to a trial when accused of a crime>
Do you think that Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan are any way a free country acts?
I think you're setting the limits for Trump rather low.
It's the only way to make trump look good.
Then why was President Trump's approval ratings at 76+%? Feels really bad being such a loser doesn't it?
Please show the sources of your amazing facts. Otherwise, one might suspect that you're inventing them for the occasion.
"Donald Trump presidential approval rating in the United States from
2017 to 2021, and 2025" <https://www.statista.com/statistics/666113/approval-rate-of-donald-trump-for-the-presidential-job/>
His highest approval rating was 49% during the early pandemic year
(Jan 2020 to May 2020).
Gallup Poll): <https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx>
Trump's 2nd term approval rating was 47% -> 43% and is creeping
downward.
Aside from a couple of small blips in december and january where his favorability was a whopping +1.8%, trump has never had a net positive approval rating. Right now it's -5.8% and trending lower.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump
And just so ya know, RCP is a right leaning website.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:10:07 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Garcia is NOT a citizen and was brought back to answer crimnal charges of interstate transport of illegal aliens over a LONG period. There is no protection from those sorts of charges.
He worked in construction and drove his colleagues to work.
There is no mention if they were legal or not. If they were illegal,
it's strange the company that employed them was not fined.
He was fined once for driving with an expired license.
I really don't think driving with an expired license is more
serious than being a gang member(and possibly a drug
trafficker/murderer). That's reason they said he was sent to jail
without due process.
Yet they said they brought him back to try him for "more
serious crimes"(the expired driver's license).
He doesn't, because he believes everything the right wing media tells
him to believe.
On 6/9/2025 2:53 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/9/2025 2:36 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:10:07 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Garcia is NOT a citizen and was brought back to answer crimnal
charges of interstate transport of illegal aliens over a LONG period.
There is no protection from those sorts of charges.
He worked in construction and drove his colleagues to work.
There is no mention if they were legal or not. If they were illegal,
it's strange the company that employed them was not fined.
He was fined once for driving with an expired license.
I really don't think driving with an expired license is more >> serious than being a gang member(and possibly a drug
trafficker/murderer). That's reason they said he was sent to jail
without due process.
Yet they said they brought him back to try him for "more
serious crimes"(the expired driver's license).
LOL
Even you must be thinking that's strange.
Or maybe not.
He doesn't, because he believes everything the right wing media tells
him to believe.
Tom has gone far beyond that. He's believing what the weird voices in
his head are telling him to believe.
As one minor example, I don't think any media, no matter how far right,
have ever claimed Trump had a 76% approval rating. If that claim was
actually made, I'd love to see the source, just for fun.
And BTW, the others on this forum who lean rightward in their politics
really should be trying to discourage Tom's posting. He's making your position look really, really bad.
I usually do not but this morning I gave it my best.
To no avail.
p.s. Mr Kunich often begins with a true minuscule factoid
before launching off into outer space, crystals and
hallucinati9ns, all mixed.
Although I believe I share some of Tom's political positions, I
dispute the suggestion that politics expressed by one person on this
very small forum has any significance, regardless of how factual or
foolish it is.
Social media arguments (some people call them discussions) about
politics, religion, guns, bicycle helmets, etc almost always filter
down to what-aboutisms, gotcha traps, and childish name calling with
zero effect on anyone's opinions.
Unfortunately, people are influenced by the garbage they see and hear
from bureaucrats and media, but repeating it on social media has no
effect because nobody believes anything that comes from their
opponent's media, and usually, rightly so.
I try to stay clear of the Tom Kunich flame fests and generally, my
only "contribution" to the other arguments on RBT is to point out the foolishness of the arguers and the uselessness of the arguments.
I will express my opinion, but I refuse to be goaded into defending it
for the simple reason that it serves no purpose.
Some would say, and probably will say, that I can't defend my
opinions. However, my opinions are based on my own understanding of
what's right, what's wrong, what's good, and what's bad, and my
refusal to allow other people to influence it , and indeed, that is
difficult to explain further.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 16:33:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 15:27:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:06:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote
The Birth Records of the US are now completely computerized
IOW, a public servant types/scans the data in...
and the details cannot be forged;
100 dollars will do it.
It is extremely unlikely that anyone is going to even try to forge citizenship records because even government officials don't know the codes.
Then how do they access/update it? If someone can access it,
someone can forge it.
You claim you were a programmer?
How do you accuse someone of being an illegal alien if the governments OWN system says that they are not?
The system is only accessed IF the guy that arrests you thinks
it's worth the bother.
He usually doesn't. You say you can prove you are " legal", he
says "nah, I don't think so, it's a Friday and your passport looks
forged, you're going to be deported".
And that's that. No due process.
a backup of photographs of the entries, Naturalization records are even more trustworthy.Will you stopp with silly ass comments? The birth records are recorded at the time of birth. You CANNOT make post entries. If there is ANY question you simply refer to the written record. The dates and places are clear. There are digital records with
NO ONE can say "no you're not a citizen" if the record says otherwise. This isn't Brazil.
It's worse. There's "due process" in Brazil. No one can be
deported without defending himself in court, and the judge decides.
There ARE corrupt judges, which is what higher courts are for.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 17:31:26 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>though he hasn't been and will simply cop a plea and get 15 months
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 15:36:33 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 18:10:07 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Garcia is NOT a citizen and was brought back to answer crimnal charges of interstate transport of illegal aliens over a LONG period. There is no protection from those sorts of charges.
He worked in construction and drove his colleagues to work.
There is no mention if they were legal or not. If they were illegal,
it's strange the company that employed them was not fined.
He was fined once for driving with an expired license.
I really don't think driving with an expired license is more
serious than being a gang member(and possibly a drug
trafficker/murderer). That's reason they said he was sent to jail
without due process.
Yet they said they brought him back to try him for "more
serious crimes"(the expired driver's license).
Expired driver's license? Exactly why you left wind extremist claims? He was brought back to stand trial for interstate transportation of illegal aliens and every state line crossed between Texas and Tennesee he could be charged with the same crime
years. The indictment alleges Abrego Garcia transported undocumented people for private financial gain, meaning he would be subject to a maximum of 10 years in prison if he is convicted as he is charged""For count one, conspiracy to transport aliens, the maximum penalty is a fine, imprisonment for not more than 10 years or both.
For count two, unlawful transportation of undocumented aliens, the maximum term of imprisonment is five years, unless the offense was committed for "commercial advantage or private financial gain," in which case the maximum term of imprisonment is 10
He was an employee, not an employer. What did they charge the corporation that gave him the orders with?
Oh, they voted Trump? So I presume no charges at all.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 17:08:32 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 14:46:12 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
The same place he got 'china killed off half its population with the
covid vaccine'
https://i.imgflip.com/207e6q.jpg
I am curious why you feel the need to lie about everything? I never said that China used the covid vaccine bvecause they didn't.
Of course they did. It's called Sinovac.
Instead they injected spike proteins directly into the bloodstream which was highly dose dependent.
What? LOL. No ..... Sinovac is an inactivated whole virus
vaccine. Like Salk's vaccine for polio. It's so safe even pregnant
women, infants and cancer patients can take it.
hose that got too much simply died. Also China had violent lockdowns where people were actually welded into the flats unable to leave even to buy food.
OMG. Now I know what happens when people actually believe in
Fox "News".
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chinese+cities+appear+empty
India has semi good relations with China and their reporters are saying that ghost towns are3 everywhere.
They've been saying that for at least 4 decades.... and it's a
lie.
China says that this is just due to overbuilding in a boom.
No they don't.
But car traffic is also much less than before covid.
Probably better public transport. A lot of car traffic is a
sign public transport failed miserably.
I corrected your links. I believe you copy and pasted some psychopath's, because they included references to (many) crazy right
wing conspiracy theories.
China has empty towns because it plans 20-30 years ahead.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underoccupied_developments_in_China>
So many towns reported as "empty" 20 years ago are now
completely occupied. They plan, they build, they construct the infrastructure, build the industries.THEN they authorize people to
move in.
Which is why the Chinese economy is growing so fast. They PLAN
DECADES AHEAD.
It's not a "I decided today's tariffs are X %, I sold/bought
shares yesterday and made a fortune"
In article <8tr34kdp2ua48fkuvtoucj9qltq2puk36u@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
They call it "real Id," and it's easy to get.
Sure, I have that. I'm just saying you'd better not accidentally leave
your house without it if you don't want to risk being deported.
On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:19:57 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 23:23:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
And once again "cyclintom" inserts illegal code in his message. Eternal-September removed the content.
He said
"California DMV may very well issue driver's licences to illegals as
Real_ID and that is pretty sure. Probably 1/4th of the workers at the
DMV are already illegals."
To which I replied:
" LOL !!!
I love it. Keep it up!
On 6/6/2025 10:38 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 2:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 1:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
Like most USAians, Mr Krygowski and I know what it is and do not have
Wow... You have no Real ID indication on your driver's licence? Do >>> you even know what it is?
it. I don't know his reason, but for me, why ever would I? meh.
When I last renewed my license, they asked if I wanted Real ID. I learned:
1) I could travel without it by carrying my passport. And I'd need a passport for international travel anyway.
2) I'd have to run home to fetch things like my passport, my birth certificate, my social security card, something like a utility bill addressed to me at home. And start over at the back of the line.
For what? So I don't have to carry my passport when I get on a plane?
A person who didn't provide similar documentation probably doesn't have
a Real ID, no matter what he thinks.
https://www.flhsmv.gov/driver-licenses-id-cards/what-to-bring/u-s-citizen/
But hey, ignorance is bliss.
And the right wingers went ballistic when Hillary Clinton suggested a federally issue ID card.....
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:55:39 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 2:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:14:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were
citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids. >>>>
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen
and walking around with no ID can get you arrested (depends
on the jurisdiction and circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/ >>>
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means
of support" is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to
the county line. Happened to me, long ago.
Vagrancy is another thing.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's an unclear issue, especially that some States hand out
ID and even driving licenses to illegal aliens. US citizen
vagrants would imaginably be unable to prove identity while
standing next to a deportable illegal with valid ID.
Again I take no position on this or that but "no ID" is a
very fuzzy standard.
For, probably, the majority, their birth certificate is all that is
need, as if yoy are born in the U.S. you are concidered a citizen.
On 6/5/2025 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 14:55:39 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 2:38 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:14:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 12:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <1il14k1qafnttu1oeqhfg0qpdfuc6c3o93@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
No, they mnay have got a hearing when they showed that they were >>>>>> citizens, but not before.
And so you must always carry proof of citizenship 100% of the time, or >>>>> else you're deported without hearing. Don't leave home without it, kids.
I'm not advocating either way but merely being a US citizen
and walking around with no ID can get you arrested (depends
on the jurisdiction and circumstances).
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Failure-identify-police-officer.htm
https://legalclarity.org/do-you-have-to-identify-yourself-to-the-police/ >>>>
There were (are?) places where no ID and "no visible means
of support" is defined as vagrancy = 3 days and a ride to
the county line. Happened to me, long ago.
Vagrancy is another thing.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It's an unclear issue, especially that some States hand out
ID and even driving licenses to illegal aliens. US citizen
vagrants would imaginably be unable to prove identity while
standing next to a deportable illegal with valid ID.
Again I take no position on this or that but "no ID" is a
very fuzzy standard.
For, probably, the majority, their birth certificate is all that is
need, as if yoy are born in the U.S. you are concidered a citizen.
--
cheers,
John B.
I think we all agree that a finding of fact is necessary and
proper. (a finding of fact is not the same as a trial)
That said, who habitually carries a certified copy of a
birth certificate? No one I know at least.
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 13:55:36 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:57 AM, AMuzi wrote:
I think we all agree that a finding of fact is necessary and proper. (a
finding of fact is not the same as a trial)
That said, who habitually? carries a certified copy of a birth
certificate?? No one I know at least.
Agreed. For my recent trip to California I had no "Real ID" so I used my >passport. But I'll confess to feeling nervous carrying that thing even >around the airport. There's certain documentation one would not want to >lose or misplace.
Wow... You have no Real ID indication on your driver's licence? Do
you even know what it is?
lol...now the state of california is hiring illegal immigrants...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 10:43:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 4:27 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 22:03:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/7/2025 4:32 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 22:38:26 -0400, Frank KrygowskiOK, we'll believe your dim recollection more than we'll believe the
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
A person who didn't provide similar documentation probably doesn't have >>>>> a Real ID, no matter what he thinks.
https://www.flhsmv.gov/driver-licenses-id-cards/what-to-bring/u-s-citizen/
But hey, ignorance is bliss.
Florida has been issuing REAL ID status on driver's licenses since
2010. Neither my wife or myself recall ever taking our birth cert.... >>>
official State of Florida information.
Sure we will.
Who is the rest of the "we" you're speaking for? Your imaginary
friends?
The people here who have long ago decided our timid Floridian is both >deluded and obsessed with me.
Maybe he's got a Costco card instead? ;-) Today's news says
https://www.yahoo.com/news/tsa-just-banned-costco-cards-033225289.html
and includes this: "How do I get a REAL ID?" TSA's site reads, "Visit
your state?s driver?s licensing agency website to find out exactly what >documentation is required to obtain a REAL ID. At a minimum, you must >provide documentation showing: 1) Full Legal Name; 2) Date of Birth; 3) >Social Security Number; 4) Two Proofs of Address of Principal Residence; >and 5) Lawful Status."
I guess Costco is a less stringent way to get a gold star. Mr. Tricycle >qualifies! ;-)
"The people here who have long ago decided our timid Floridian is both deluded and obsessed with me."
It's not unusual for a narcissist to suggest that he speaks for other
people, even though he knows it's not true.
I doubt anyone else on RBT hates me as much as you and Junior, but if
they do, se la vie. I've got big shoulders.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:45:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local voting place. There was NO WAY you could have mistaken them as anything other than Mexicans. Most of them couldn't speak English and a large percentage were illiterate.
That's amazingly perceptive of you! I can't spot an illiterate person
just by looking at them.
You can sometimes tell by the t-shirt: <https://www.google.com/search?q=t-shirt%20spelling%20error&num=10&udm=2>
Not being able to read and write English does not make someone
illiterate. It's quite likely that they can read and write in their
native language (or dialect). However, in the USA, that would make
them functionally illiterate. <https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/functional-illiteracy>
My former office was next to a cleaning service which primarily hired
Spanish speaking workers. I was involved in a discussion when I
mentioned bi-lingual education in the schools. Some of the workers immediately spoke out (in English) that they did not want bi-lingual education for their children. Instead, they wanted only English
instruction. That's because knowing English will get them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
On 6/6/2025 11:01 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... they wanted only English
instruction. That's because knowing English will get them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
Same conclusion to the same problem by Italians 100 years ago.
A couple points here:
1) My grandparents were born in Poland, my parents born here. They spoke Polish in the home, but my parents never taught us the language. It was
clear they wanted us to be fully American. I now regret their choice.
Any language is difficult to learn later in life, and Polish is one of
the tougher European languages.
2) One dear friend of mine, for years, taught English As A Second
Language to immigrants. Amazingly, she had classes of 10 to 20 students
from a mixture of countries; so the majority not only had no English,
they had no languages in common with each other. Many were illiterate in
all languages, including their own. I can't possibly imagine how a
person could teach such a crew, but she had great success. Apparently
the objective was not perfect English. Instead it was survival - here's
how to use our money, our bus systems, find a job, etc. - but it worked.
When she left that job, I was invited to a "going away" party attended
by many of her former students. It was an amazing mixture of
nationalities (and ethnic foods and music). You could see they
absolutely loved that lady.
On 6/6/2025 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:45:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local voting place. There was NO WAY you could have mistaken them as anything other than Mexicans. Most of them couldn't speak English and a large percentage were illiterate.
That's amazingly perceptive of you! I can't spot an illiterate person
just by looking at them.
You can sometimes tell by the t-shirt: <https://www.google.com/search?q=t-shirt%20spelling%20error&num=10&udm=2>
Not being able to read and write English does not make someone
illiterate. It's quite likely that they can read and write in their
native language (or dialect). However, in the USA, that would make
them functionally illiterate. <https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/functional-illiteracy>
My former office was next to a cleaning service which primarily hired Spanish speaking workers. I was involved in a discussion when I
mentioned bi-lingual education in the schools. Some of the workers immediately spoke out (in English) that they did not want bi-lingual education for their children. Instead, they wanted only English instruction. That's because knowing English will get them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
Same conclusion to the same problem by Italians 100 years ago.
On 6/6/2025 1:09 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 11:01 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
... they wanted only English
instruction. That's because knowing English will get
them a much
better paying job in the US than Spanish.
Same conclusion to the same problem by Italians 100 years
ago.
A couple points here:
1) My grandparents were born in Poland, my parents born
here. They spoke Polish in the home, but my parents never
taught us the language. It was clear they wanted us to be
fully American. I now regret their choice. Any language is
difficult to learn later in life, and Polish is one of the
tougher European languages.
2) One dear friend of mine, for years, taught English As A
Second Language to immigrants. Amazingly, she had classes of
10 to 20 students from a mixture of countries; so the
majority not only had no English, they had no languages in
common with each other. Many were illiterate in all
languages, including their own. I can't possibly imagine how
a person could teach such a crew, but she had great success.
Apparently the objective was not perfect English. Instead it
was survival - here's how to use our money, our bus systems,
find a job, etc. - but it worked.
When she left that job, I was invited to a "going away"
party attended by many of her former students. It was an
amazing mixture of nationalities (and ethnic foods and
music). You could see they absolutely loved that lady.
Your family's experience mirrors mine. I have the same
feeling about the lost opportunity.
On 6/7/2025 12:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:24 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <pbq0Q.746378$qmJf.738823@fx16.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a Real ID in my pocket right now. All traveler outside of the
national boundaries has to show proof of citizenship (a passport) at
all times.
Indeed, you should carry it inside the national boundaries at all times, >> as well, since some people apparently think you can be deported without
a hearing if anyone suspects you of being in the country illegally.
Look, I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local
voting place.
I'm really curious how you knew for a fact they were illegal. But that's >> not really what I'm on about here.
What I'm on about is that without a hearing, any crooked cop could point >> a finger at you and have you deported to prison for life for being an
illegal immigrant. It's all about the due process.
Do you REALLY think that anything close to a majority voted for Biden?
I wasn't sure, but after Trump lost 60+ court cases trying to prove
illegal voting activity, I'm pretty confident that things were on the
up-and-up overall. 60+ court cases is a LOT of vetting. Hats off to
Trump for being so thorough. :)
That remains an open question as every one of those was dismissed or decided on standing, latches or other process issues. There was no
evidence or testimony entered into a court record. We just don't know (our own beliefs notwithstanding) and likely never will.
Questions remain such as https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9647421250
You realize that article doesn't support any allegations of fraud, right?
and the famous 2d graph here https://leeblynelle.pages.dev/xquypzf-popular-vote-2024-election-totals- eomysyb/
which may have innocuous explanations. Or not.
Frpom the first link:
"?We are getting very close to having some results from Wisconsin, and
I?m seeing a lot of questions like this one, which was directed to the Wisconsin Elections Commission on Twitter,? she said Wednesday morning.
?That weird-looking bump in the Wisconsin results is what happened when 170,000 absentee votes from the city of Milwaukee poured in all at once.
It?s not nefarious. It?s just counting.? "
On 6/8/2025 12:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/8/2025 9:47 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/8/2025 9:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2025 9:08 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:Andrew, how many of those cases were lost? Wasn't it more than 50?
On 6/7/2025 12:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:24 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:I'm unable to believe that _IF_ there were so many consequential
In article <pbq0Q.746378$qmJf.738823@fx16.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a Real ID in my pocket right now. All traveler outside of the >>>>>>> national boundaries has to show proof of citizenship (a passport) at >>>>>>> all times.
Indeed, you should carry it inside the national boundaries at all >>>>>> times,
as well, since some people apparently think you can be deported
without
a hearing if anyone suspects you of being in the country illegally. >>>>>>
Look, I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my >>>>>>> local
voting place.
I'm really curious how you knew for a fact they were illegal. But >>>>>> that's
not really what I'm on about here.
What I'm on about is that without a hearing, any crooked cop could >>>>>> point
a finger at you and have you deported to prison for life for being an >>>>>> illegal immigrant. It's all about the due process.
Do you REALLY think that anything close to a majority voted for >>>>>>> Biden?
I wasn't sure, but after Trump lost 60+ court cases trying to prove >>>>>> illegal voting activity, I'm pretty confident that things were on the >>>>>> up-and-up overall. 60+ court cases is a LOT of vetting. Hats off to >>>>>> Trump for being so thorough. :)
That remains an open question as every one of those was dismissed
or decided on standing, latches or other process issues. There was >>>>> no evidence or testimony entered into a court record. We just
don't know (our own beliefs notwithstanding) and likely never will. >>>>
election irregularities, the highly motivated Republican losers
could not have properly done their legal homework and proven their
case in court.
As it was, they lost again and again, for whatever reasons. My guess >>>> is they didn't try really hard because they knew their legal
protests were a sham.
Constitutionally this is the responsibility of the State legislatures
who are generally weak of spirit, as recent Congresses.
It's irrational fantasy to pretend there were massive problems that
radically changed election results, yet NO court cases were able to
prove that. It's beyond belief that _all_ Republican-hired lawyers
were that incompetent.
Lost? Not the same as filing not accepted or case dismissed ...
Would you prefer "not won"? Same [lack of] effect, same evaluation.
On 6/7/2025 12:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:24 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <pbq0Q.746378$qmJf.738823@fx16.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a Real ID in my pocket right now. All traveler outside of the
national boundaries has to show proof of citizenship (a passport) at
all times.
Indeed, you should carry it inside the national boundaries at all times, >> as well, since some people apparently think you can be deported without
a hearing if anyone suspects you of being in the country illegally.
Look, I watched approximately 100 illegals vote for Obama at my local
voting place.
I'm really curious how you knew for a fact they were illegal. But that's >> not really what I'm on about here.
What I'm on about is that without a hearing, any crooked cop could point >> a finger at you and have you deported to prison for life for being an
illegal immigrant. It's all about the due process.
Do you REALLY think that anything close to a majority voted for Biden?
I wasn't sure, but after Trump lost 60+ court cases trying to prove
illegal voting activity, I'm pretty confident that things were on the
up-and-up overall. 60+ court cases is a LOT of vetting. Hats off to
Trump for being so thorough. :)
That remains an open question as every one of those was dismissed or decided on standing, latches or other process issues. There was no
evidence or testimony entered into a court record. We just don't know (our own beliefs notwithstanding) and likely never will.
I'm unable to believe that _IF_ there were so many consequential
election irregularities, the highly motivated Republican losers could
not have properly done their legal homework and proven their case in court.
As it was, they lost again and again, for whatever reasons. My guess is
they didn't try really hard because they knew their legal protests were
a sham.
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 16:14:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Trump's tariffs are very short term as other countries are lining up to eliminate their tariffs so that they can get back into the game.
Nobody is diminishing tariffs. Brazil raised them. China
raised them. One or two American doormat countries are pretending to
lower them ....
Tariffs are just there for market manipulation. Insider
trading. And the AMERICAN. working class pays them. Mexicans don't pay
for your walls or for your tariffs. No matter what Trump says. He lies fluently. You would have to be VERY stupid to believe him.
China couldn't give a sht. The US is only 14% of its market.
And the US can't compete in other countries with China. China won the
trade war.
On 6/3/2025 11:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar Abrego
Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice Department
employee who added that was fired the next morning and the filing
emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the courts say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
Right, The government narrative kept changing, coming up with different excuses, right down to trump retweeting a photo shopped (fake) image of
Mr. Garcia with gang tattoos. Once they were unable to convince anyone
with any brains that he had no criminal past, they brought out a
domestic abuse complaint from ten years ago - complete bullshit as well.
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did not cover
the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust survivor, in
Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed not
interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be that eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like
NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its implications.
Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly against attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But "immolation of
live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means burning to death. I gather only one person out of the eight was
seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your grip
on your own pearls!
On 6/3/2025 5:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2025 3:10 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/3/2025 11:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:At his previous 2019 hearing, after his deportation order, the removal
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar
Abrego Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice
Department employee who added that was fired the next morning and
the filing emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the
courts say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
Right, The government narrative kept changing, coming up with
different excuses, right down to trump retweeting a photo shopped
(fake) image of Mr. Garcia with gang tattoos. Once they were unable to
convince anyone with any brains that he had no criminal past, they
brought out a domestic abuse complaint from ten years ago - complete
bullshit as well.
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did not cover
the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust survivor,
in Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed
not interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be
that eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like
NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its
implications. Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest
antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly
against attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But
"immolation of live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated.
It usually means burning to death. I gather only one person out of
the eight was seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your
grip on your own pearls!
was stayed as the judge found that his MS-13 gang membership put him at risk in his old neighborhood controlled by a competing gang.
(details are messy as he had lived both in El Salvador and in Guatemala)
https://tennesseestar.com/news/immigration-judges-2019-order-found- kilmar-abrego-garcia-subject-to-removal-by-deportation-but-granted- withholding-of-removal-to-guatemala-though-referencing-el-salvador/ tpappert/2025/04/22/
The prior administration also denied assistance to Tennessee State
Patrol in 2022 when they stopped him in the car of a known trafficker
with a load of smuggled illegals while speeding with no valid license.
FBI directed TSP to not detain him.
https://tennesseestar.com/justice/tennessee-highway-patrol-confirms- biden-era-fbi-told-officers-to-release-kilmar-abrego-garcia-during-2022- traffic-stop-despite-speeding-and-license-violations-to/ tpappert/2025/04/17/
Uncorroborated allegations.."sources said"...."two (unnamed) judges determined he is likely to be a member of the Central American gang,
Mara Salvatrucha"....iow, more trump ICE/DOJ lies to cover their assess.
Got a link? I couldn't find anything except trump DOJ heresay.
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 17:22:43 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Update this afternoon regarding Mr Abrego Garcia.
3-1/2 minute video is on the 2d screen/page here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-way-back-185850961.html
LOL. No doubt they also "forgot" to charge him for bringing in
heroin from Afghanistan.....
It would have been better for the republicans if they had just
admitted their (unforgivable and stupid) mistake and kept quiet... the
topic would have eventually died out.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 19:39:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
There is NO Federal statute of limitations on human trafficking and I believe that was introduced by Bill
Clinton.
Wrong. However, I will admit that I had a difficult time finding the information.
"Federal Human Trafficking Civil Litigation" <https://htlegalcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/Federal-Human-Trafficking-Civil-Litigation-1.pdf>
"18 U.S.C. ? 1595(a). The statute of limitations is 10 years, or 10
years after the victim turned 18, if the offense occurred when the
victim was a minor. See 18 U.S.C. ? 1595(c)."
There are also state laws which cover human trafficking:
CA Civ Code ? 52.5 (2024) <https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-civ/division-1/part-2/section-52-5/>
"(c) An action brought pursuant to this section shall be commenced
within seven years of the date on which the trafficking victim was
freed from the trafficking situation or, if the victim was a minor
when the act of human trafficking against the victim occurred, within
10 years after the date the plaintiff attains the age of majority."
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 23:13:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 19:08:36 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <g1104kpnld069op5s12ddfjpaas7360a82@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
So if the government says you're not a US citizen (even if you are), you >> don't get a hearing. This is a planet-sized loophole, you see?
Where do you get the idea that you don't get a hearing?
According to Trump, you don't get a hearing. Deportation is
automatic. No checking documents, no courts, no right of defense.
NOW do you understand ?
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:12:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 11:09:37 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the
community.
Let me tell you something about that wonderful country of Brazil.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/slavery-brazil
Not only is the antislavery laws poorly enforced, in the wilds of Brazil it is to this day
an active practice. And for very many years they would pay ex-slaves so little that
it amounted to slavery.
Yes, and it was much worse during the right wing dictatorship.
Shadow - in case you're unaware of it, religion is completely voluntary. If you don't like them that is tough shit.
Here in the USA we have a right to choose3 any r4eligion we want or none at all.
Here normal people choose "no religion". We let the weak of
mind choose whatever they want to. Most are opting for nazi-fascism
(also known as christian warriors). It's what social media (Meta, X
and Glugle) advise them to do.
On 6/5/2025 9:05 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:12:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 11:09:37 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the
community.
Let me tell you something about that wonderful country of Brazil.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/slavery-brazil
Not only is the antislavery laws poorly enforced, in the wilds of Brazil it is to this day
an active practice. And for very many years they would pay ex-slaves so little that
it amounted to slavery.
Yes, and it was much worse during the right wing dictatorship.
Shadow - in case you're unaware of it, religion is completely voluntary. If you don't like them that is tough shit.
Here in the USA we have a right to choose3 any r4eligion we want or none at all.
Here normal people choose "no religion". We let the weak of
mind choose whatever they want to. Most are opting for nazi-fascism
(also known as christian warriors). It's what social media (Meta, X
and Glugle) advise them to do.
[]'s
Tommy isn't wrong that we still do enjoy freedom of religion, but that's being changed as we speak, with several states passing legislation to
force the posting of the ten commandments and forcing "bible history" to
be taught in public schools, with several not allowing 'opt out' for non-christian families.
It's only a matter of time before the right wing "christian"
nationalists (aka fascists) start demanding legislation for christian
prayer to be mandatory as part of the school day.
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 10:07:43 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/5/2025 9:05 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:12:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 11:09:37 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:46:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-distributed-1000-biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
IMHO, ANY "radical" religious group should be investigated by
the FBI They are usually sociopaths, and as such, dangerous to the
community.
Let me tell you something about that wonderful country of Brazil.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/slavery-brazil
Not only is the antislavery laws poorly enforced, in the wilds of Brazil it is to this day
an active practice. And for very many years they would pay ex-slaves so little that
it amounted to slavery.
Yes, and it was much worse during the right wing dictatorship.
Shadow - in case you're unaware of it, religion is completely voluntary. If you don't like them that is tough shit.
Here in the USA we have a right to choose3 any r4eligion we want or none at all.
Here normal people choose "no religion". We let the weak of
mind choose whatever they want to. Most are opting for nazi-fascism
(also known as christian warriors). It's what social media (Meta, X
and Glugle) advise them to do.
[]'s
Tommy isn't wrong that we still do enjoy freedom of religion, but that's >being changed as we speak, with several states passing legislation to
force the posting of the ten commandments and forcing "bible history" to
be taught in public schools, with several not allowing 'opt out' for >non-christian families.
It's only a matter of time before the right wing "christian"
nationalists (aka fascists) start demanding legislation for christian >prayer to be mandatory as part of the school day.
Exactly what's happening here in Sao Paulo. That and
prohibiting teaching evolution.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Brazil>
Our Constitution states that there is no official religion.
And yet when non-Christians appealed to the supreme court our
"brilliant" judges ordered a crucifix be installed in the courtroom.
<https://zenit.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/supremo-tribunal-federal-stf-01.jpg>
"To show they are not biased". LOL.
Worse, Trump said the governor of Sao Paulo will be elected
President in 2026 with the US's social media support.
4 years of fascism under Bolsonaro was more than enough....
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 09:09:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/21/2025 6:06 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 8 21:18:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 23:13:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 19:08:36 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <g1104kpnld069op5s12ddfjpaas7360a82@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
US citizens should indeed get a hearing.
So if the government says you're not a US citizen (even if you are), you
don't get a hearing. This is a planet-sized loophole, you see?
Where do you get the idea that you don't get a hearing?
According to Trump, you don't get a hearing. Deportation is
automatic. No checking documents, no courts, no right of defense.
NOW do you understand ?
If you have proof that you are a citizen, you do not NEED to go to court, it is against the law to deport you from your native country.
And yet .....
NOW do you understand?
Trump is NOT picking up people off of the street and deporting them. People charged as illegals and verified by USCIS are turned over to ICE and deported. What does Brazil do with the Argentinians flooding the country?
Brasil has had net emiragtion for years.
True, but from 2003-2015 more people came back to Brasil than
left it.
As Frank pointed out, people go where it's best for their
futures(and their children's futures). Still haven't figured out why
they choose the US, though.
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:20:02 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:16:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski ><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 11:54 AM, Shadow wrote:
I suspect a large part is because our version of culture - if you can >>dignify it with that term - is broadcast so prevalently. People see our >>movies and TV shows that glamorize the country, and those function as >>advertisements for living in the U.S.
As Frank pointed out, people go where it's best for their
futures(and their children's futures). Still haven't figured out why
they choose the US, though.
Yesterday I asked a Peruvian friend what brought her to the U.S. She
said it was a family vacation to Disney World when she was young; she >>thought the entire country was like Orlando. The photos of her home town >>in Peru looked pretty bleak.
FWIW, I'd never want to live in Orlando.
Another of Krygowski's imaginary friends?
I believe he has or had a lot of real friends. He has a
friendly, genuine attitude, is better informed than most Americans and
seems to care about others. What is the term? Empathy.
Had maybe. Most of my friends died from COVID or old age. My
school reunion and my Med-School reunion were both cancelled this
year. Not enough left.
Maybe he lost his. It's very hard to make real friends when
you are old.
There's always Usenet, though it's riddled with psychos...
still better than social media.
On 6/12/2025 3:34 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 17:23:08 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/polls.html
Your link says Fox "News" said Clinton would win by a
landslide. Do you even read the articles you post links to?
But that was almost half a year before the elections, so
within a reasonable margin of error. Look at the date.
https://elections2024.thehill.com/national/harris-favorability-rating/
And despite your polls showing otherwise you lost bigtime.
Funny how tommy still deludes himself that a 1.5% margin is a "big" win
That article just says various polls predicted Trump would
win. They thought the American voter did not learn first time round.
And got it right.
READ the articles.
He never has before, why should he start now?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:15:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jun 12 15:43:10 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/12/2025 3:34 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 17:23:08 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/polls.html
Your link says Fox "News" said Clinton would win by a
landslide. Do you even read the articles you post links to?
But that was almost half a year before the elections, so
within a reasonable margin of error. Look at the date.
https://elections2024.thehill.com/national/harris-favorability-rating/ >> >>
And despite your polls showing otherwise you lost bigtime.
Funny how tommy still deludes himself that a 1.5% margin is a "big" win
That article just says various polls predicted Trump would
win. They thought the American voter did not learn first time round.
And got it right.
READ the articles.
He never has before, why should he start now?
Flunky, I don't expect Shadow to understand all of the nuances of English. But I do expect you to understand that 80% of the polls had Clinton winning by a large margin. Why didn't she?
Yes, ask "Fox News".
Because the Slime Stream Media is completely unreliable and invent stories that support their political leanings rather than reality.
My quote was from Fox "News"'s predictions. Call it slime
stream media and trumpets will have a stroke. They actually believe
the crap it publishes.
[]'s
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:15:19 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Flunky, I don't expect Shadow to understand all of the nuances of English. But I do expect you to understand that 80% of the polls had Clinton winning by a large margin. Why didn't she?
Because the polls are based on the popular vote, while the actual
winner is decided by the electoral college.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election>
"Most polls correctly predicted a popular vote victory for Hillary
Clinton, but overestimated the size of her lead, with the result that
Trump's electoral college victory was a surprise to analysts."
Tom, what do you consider represents "a large margin"?
An average of about 3% in not what I consider a large margin.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 16:10:15 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/3/2025 11:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar Abrego >>> Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice Department
employee who added that was fired the next morning and the filing
emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the courts >> say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
Right, The government narrative kept changing, coming up with different >excuses, right down to trump retweeting a photo shopped (fake) image of
Mr. Garcia with gang tattoos. Once they were unable to convince anyone
with any brains that he had no criminal past, they brought out a
domestic abuse complaint from ten years ago - complete bullshit as well.
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did not cover
the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust survivor, in >>> Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed not
interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be that
eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like
NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its implications.
Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly against
attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But "immolation of
live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means
burning to death. I gather only one person out of the eight was
seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your grip
on your own pearls!
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/18/dhs-releases-bombshell-investigative-report-kilmar-abrego-garcia-suspected-human
In article <brlu3kpg75o4ebt5ugb9cd05eehdv46t01@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote: >https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/18/dhs-releases-bombshell-investigative-report-kilmar-abrego-garcia-suspected-human
Interesting allegations. How well did they hold up in court? What did
the judge find?
...Or do we just have the word of DHS to go on with this one?
I don't feel like I'm asking a lot here. We have a system of checks and balances for a reason, after all.
On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 19:55:34 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 8 19:46:41 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 17:22:43 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
LOL. No doubt they also "forgot" to charge him for bringing in
Update this afternoon regarding Mr Abrego Garcia.
3-1/2 minute video is on the 2d screen/page here:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-way-back-185850961.html >>
heroin from Afghanistan.....
It would have been better for the republicans if they had just
admitted their (unforgivable and stupid) mistake and kept quiet... the
topic would have eventually died out.
work, to murder people that wouldn't cooperate.Isn't it comical that you and your friends claimed that he was somehow a legal alien and the 32 point prosecution will put him in prison in the USA for the remainder of his life?
So he was a known MS-13 gang member transporting other MS-13 gang members around the US as well as weapons ( anything to say about that Frank?) so that they can use their gangland tactics to commit protection schemes around the US and if that didn't
No sources, as usual?
Did you hear that from your right ear or your left ear ?
Whichever one it was, I'm sorry I have to break this to you: You're
deaf in that ear.
My sympathies.
On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:28:34 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 4 12:46:09 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 11:29:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/4/2025 11:24 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/4/2025 9:46 AM, AMuzi wrote:
https://catholicvote.org/new-anti-catholic-fbi-memo-
distributed-1000- biden-fbi-employees-before-whistleblower/
That's a remarkably unspecific article. There were no
details for "gathering information about Catholic
traditionalist groups" etc. It seems odd that the FBI would
suddenly be paranoid about religious people who espouse
conservative family values.
Most important, there was no specific evidence about exactly
what the horrible memo said, nor any actual harm that was done.
And I'll note that CatholicVote.org is not actually
connected with the Catholic church. Looks like yet another
right wing political organization drumming up outrage.
A bit more on that here:
https://www.wmal.com/2025/06/04/fbi-targeting-of-catholics-was-bigger-than-biden-officials-acknowledged/
What's a "Radical Traditionalist Catholic?"
That is a person who believes that Protestantism is a false religion.
I don't care much for any any organised religion. I think they're all
a bunch of group thinkers, but as long as they allow me to watch from
a distance, I can live with them.... and I do.
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 19:41:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 6 03:25:49 2025 John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 05:24:50 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:59:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski"Throughout his time in office, Biden empowered officials to violate
<S.>
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
The Biden administration and their cohorts in state governments used
the disease as an excuse to take control of people's private lives and
take away their civil liberties.
https://reason.com/2024/12/10/civil-liberties-lost-under-covid/
Americans' liberties in the name of fighting COVID-19. There is little
evidence those policies worked."
Sorry, I can't agree with that last sentence as Thailand did apply
thoser very same policies, the resuit?
U.S. -
cases 1 million population 333,985
deaths per 1 million population 3842
Thailand -
Cases 1 million population 68,069
Deaths 1 million population 494
John! Thais did NOT take those vaccines since they would have had to payt for them theirselves. What is difficult for this to understand?
Wrong, as usual.
"Vaccinations in Thailand" (Updated 27-5-2025) <https://www.expatica.com/th/health/healthcare/thailand-vaccinations-2172908/#covid-19>
"Thailand?s government and Department of Disease Control dealt with
COVID-19 very well, offering Thai nationals and expat foreigners free vaccinations during the pandemic."
"While free for Thai nationals, expat residents have to arrange them privately. Fortunately, though, private healthcare in Thailand is
relatively affordable compared with equivalent services and facilities
in the Global North."
"For over 20 years, the EPI achieved vaccine coverage of more than 80%
of the population."
On 6/6/2025 9:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 5:25 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 05:24:50 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:59:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski"Throughout his time in office, Biden empowered officials to violate
<S.>
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was >>>>> unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
The Biden administration and their cohorts in state governments used
the disease as an excuse to take control of people's private lives and >>> take away their civil liberties.
https://reason.com/2024/12/10/civil-liberties-lost-under-covid/
Americans' liberties in the name of fighting COVID-19. There is little
evidence those policies worked."
Sorry, I can't agree with that last sentence as Thailand did apply
thoser very same policies, the resuit?
U.S. -
cases 1 million population 333,985
deaths per 1 million population 3842
Thailand -
Cases 1 million population 68,069
Deaths 1 million population 494
--
cheers,
John B.
So one might better change 'assaults on liberty' to 'capricious and ineffective assaults on liberty'.
It's too bad neother you or he dumbass seem to remember that all those "heinous assaults on liberty" occured while trump was president. Biden rescinded them once the pandemic abated.
but no, that wouldn't comport with the right trope "DEMOCRAT BAD
REPUBLICAN GOOD"
On 6/18/2025 4:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2025 3:39 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Tue Jun 3 16:10:15 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:Hmm. Donald Trump: ""I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and
On 6/3/2025 11:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar Abrego >>>>> Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice Department
employee who added that was fired the next morning and the filing
emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the
courts
say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
Right, The government narrative kept changing, coming up with different >>> excuses, right down to trump retweeting a photo shopped (fake) image of >>> Mr. Garcia with gang tattoos. Once they were unable to convince anyone >>> with any brains that he had no criminal past, they brought out a
domestic abuse complaint from ten years ago - complete bullshit as well. >>>
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did not cover >>>>> the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust survivor, in >>>>> Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed not >>>>> interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be that >>>> eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like >>>> NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its implications. >>>> Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly against >>>> attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But "immolation of >>>> live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means >>>> burning to death. I gather only one person out of the eight was
seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your grip >>>> on your own pearls!
Oh poor little baby has to deny reality.
https://nypost.com/2025/04/30/us-news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-bragged-he-
could-kill-his-wife-and-get-away-with-it-court-docs/
shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible."
You've bragged that you could destroy me, or Zen, or anyone you cared to with one punch.
None of that means much.
There's also the fact that Garcia's wife said her mother told her Garcia
said 'he could kill her and no one could od anything about it'.
Once again, tommy posts a link that doesn't support his claim.
On 6/4/2025 2:53 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/4/2025 9:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/4/2025 4:30 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 6/3/2025 5:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2025 3:10 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:Uncorroborated allegations.."sources said"...."two
On 6/3/2025 11:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:At his previous 2019 hearing, after his deportation
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in
re Kilmar Abrego Garcia that he had been deported in
error. The Justice Department employee who added that
was fired the next morning and the filing emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And
what did the courts say about this issue? And where is
Mr. Garcia now?
Right, The government narrative kept changing, coming
up with different excuses, right down to trump
retweeting a photo shopped (fake) image of Mr. Garcia
with gang tattoos. Once they were unable to convince
anyone with any brains that he had no criminal past,
they brought out a domestic abuse complaint from ten
years ago - complete bullshit as well.
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page
did not cover the immolation of live US citizens,
including a Holocaust survivor, in Boulder by an
illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed not
interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint
seems to be that eight people getting various degrees
of burns did not get enough attention, despite it
being on every news outlet. It looks to me like NYT
has since done many articles on the incident and its
implications. Are you trying to say NYT does
sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know,
I'm firmly against attempts to harm or kill groups of
innocent people. But "immolation of live US citizens"
is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means
burning to death. I gather only one person out of the
eight was seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly
relax your grip on your own pearls!
order, the removal was stayed as the judge found that
his MS-13 gang membership put him at risk in his old
neighborhood controlled by a competing gang.
(details are messy as he had lived both in El Salvador
and in Guatemala)
https://tennesseestar.com/news/immigration-judges-2019-
order-found- kilmar-abrego-garcia-subject-to-removal-by-
deportation-but-granted- withholding-of-removal-to-
guatemala-though-referencing-el-salvador/
tpappert/2025/04/22/
The prior administration also denied assistance to
Tennessee State Patrol in 2022 when they stopped him in
the car of a known trafficker with a load of smuggled
illegals while speeding with no valid license. FBI
directed TSP to not detain him.
https://tennesseestar.com/justice/tennessee-highway-
patrol-confirms- biden-era-fbi-told-officers-to-release-
kilmar-abrego-garcia- during-2022- traffic-stop-despite-
speeding-and-license-violations- to/ tpappert/2025/04/17/
(unnamed) judges determined he is likely to be a member
of the Central American gang, Mara Salvatrucha"....iow,
more trump ICE/DOJ lies to cover their assess.
The judge who, in 2019, stayed deportation to Guatemala
_due to his gang affiliation_ wrote his decision. It was
not appealed.
Got a link? I couldn't find anything except trump DOJ heresay.
Cited above, it's in the header of the first link, "granted
withholding of removal to guatemala though referencing el
salvador"
On 6/6/2025 10:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:13 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
It's too bad neother you or he dumbass seem to remember that all those
"heinous assaults on liberty" occured while trump was president. Biden
rescinded them once the pandemic abated.
but no, that wouldn't comport with the right trope "DEMOCRAT BAD
REPUBLICAN GOOD"
I am not absolving him. Nor are his policies, in retrospect, defensible, especially for the first half of 2020.
the current group complaining about Covid policies seems to forget the
fact that the virus was completely new, and scientists and medicos had
no way of knowing how bad the infestation would get.
They've erased from their memories the images of hospitals set up with
huge plastic triage tents, and the documentation of medical workers
working endless nonstop shifts trying to keep people alive. They ignore
the fact that many otherwise healthy people died or nearly died - like
one of my younger riding friends.
That said, there was much flailing and writhing of policy at all levels
in the early days of the bioweapon infestation.
The "bioweapon" claim is deliberately inflammatory and senseless. Much
like the claim from one of my friends, who said all the Covid fuss was
just an attempt to influence the election.
But I guess conspiracy fans will conspire. :-/
On 6/6/2025 2:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 1:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
The "bioweapon" claim is deliberately inflammatory and senseless. Much
like the claim from one of my friends, who said all the Covid fuss was
just an attempt to influence the election.
But I guess conspiracy fans will conspire. :-/
Both can be true (bioweapon and timed for political advantage). Clear proof (for or against either) will defy historians.
And as we know, lack of proof has never deterred conspiracy theorists!
On 6/7/2025 6:50 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 6/7/2025 12:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 2:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 1:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
The "bioweapon" claim is deliberately inflammatory and
senseless. Much like the claim from one of my friends,
who said all the Covid fuss was just an attempt to
influence the election.
But I guess conspiracy fans will conspire. :-/
Both can be true (bioweapon and timed for political
advantage). Clear proof (for or against either) will
defy historians.
And as we know, lack of proof has never deterred
conspiracy theorists!
Yes, unknown does not equal true. Nor false.
There was great sympathy in some quarters for Alger Hiss
for 40+ years until his KGB file, reports and payroll
records were released in the Venona documents.
OTOH there will be no 'secrets' revealed in the perhaps
once more imminent JFK files release, after 60 years'
grace period to destroy anything of import.
https://archive.is/SDjq1
We'll see. I don't know and you don't either.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/trump-banned-jeffrey-epstein-from-mar-a-lago-for-hitting-on-girl.html
OTOH despite many promises the materials are still not
public. We can hope I suppose.
Yes, that was exactly my point. I should have been more clear. It's an accusation, nothing more, but it seems to me if _not_ true that our
law-suit happy president would have hit Musk with a libel suit as he has already done on several occasions (vs ABC news, NYT, and E Jean Carrol).
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:48:47 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I did
fly several times during that period and I soon realised that the crew >didn't make an issue about lowering the mask below my chin. I walked
around in three airports with the mask hanging around my neck
I suppose we'll never know how many people you killed... not
that you would lose a minute's sleep if it had been dozens.
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 16:32:54 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 09:48:55 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:48:47 -0400, Catrike Ryder >><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I did
fly several times during that period and I soon realised that the crew >>>didn't make an issue about lowering the mask below my chin. I walked >>>around in three airports with the mask hanging around my neck
I suppose we'll never know how many people you killed... not
that you would lose a minute's sleep if it had been dozens.
[]'s
Don't be silly... How would I have killed anyone?
To deliberately infect someone with a disease is manslaughter
here in Brazil, if the victim dies.
Probably not so in the US, or most repuglicans would be in
jail.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:03:38 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 04:05:40 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:14:54 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 16:32:54 -0400, Catrike Ryder >>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 09:48:55 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:48:47 -0400, Catrike Ryder >>>>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I did
fly several times during that period and I soon realised that the crew >>>>>>didn't make an issue about lowering the mask below my chin. I walked >>>>>>around in three airports with the mask hanging around my neck
I suppose we'll never know how many people you killed... not
that you would lose a minute's sleep if it had been dozens.
[]'s
Don't be silly... How would I have killed anyone?
To deliberately infect someone with a disease is manslaughter
here in Brazil, if the victim dies.
I had no disease so I couldn't have infected anyone, deliberately, or >>otherwise.
How do you know? Did you do monthly tests? Note most people
were carriers, did not get pneumonia. Only 2% died.
Do a blood test today and see if you were a carrier or not.
FWIW, there were others on the plane and in the terminal with masks >>lowered or taken off.
And there are people that shoot up schools. I fail to see how
that justifies manslaughter. "They killed people so I can too".
<EYEROLL>
On the other hand, I saw morons wearing masks
out on their bikes, with nobody else within two hundred feet. I saw
other fools, all alone in their vehicles wearing masks. Now we're told >>that the cloth masks were worthless, as was the need to stay six feet >>apart. Some people think their nanny-governments are honest and >>wonderful. I don't. I think Fauci ought to be in prison
Cloth masks were excellent, if combined with social
distancing. New Zealand and Australia are proof of that. The disease
only spread when social media belittled the government.
Utter nonsense... The Cochrane Report concluded that there is no
evidence that the masks did any good.
"Seven studies took place in the community, and two studies in
healthcare workers. Compared with wearing no mask, wearing a mask may
make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like
illness (9 studies; 3507 people); and probably makes no difference in
how many people have flu confirmed by a laboratory test (6 studies;
3005 people)." https://www.cochrane.org/news/featured-review-physical-interventions-interrupt-or-reduce-spread-respiratory-viruses
Probably not so in the US, or most repuglicans would be in
jail.
[]'s
I see you've joined the "make up a nasty pseudo-name for your
opponents" club. Don't you think that's kind of juvenile? I do.
What they do is "Ugly". It's an accurate description.
[]'s
Youre momma wears combat boots.
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 08:41:13 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:03:38 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 04:05:40 -0400, Catrike Ryder >><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:14:54 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 16:32:54 -0400, Catrike Ryder >>>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 09:48:55 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:48:47 -0400, Catrike Ryder >>>>>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I did
fly several times during that period and I soon realised that the crew >>>>>>>didn't make an issue about lowering the mask below my chin. I walked >>>>>>>around in three airports with the mask hanging around my neck
I suppose we'll never know how many people you killed... not >>>>>>that you would lose a minute's sleep if it had been dozens.
[]'s
Don't be silly... How would I have killed anyone?
To deliberately infect someone with a disease is manslaughter
here in Brazil, if the victim dies.
I had no disease so I couldn't have infected anyone, deliberately, or >>>otherwise.
How do you know? Did you do monthly tests? Note most people
were carriers, did not get pneumonia. Only 2% died.
Do a blood test today and see if you were a carrier or not.
FWIW, there were others on the plane and in the terminal with masks >>>lowered or taken off.
And there are people that shoot up schools. I fail to see how
that justifies manslaughter. "They killed people so I can too".
<EYEROLL>
On the other hand, I saw morons wearing masks
out on their bikes, with nobody else within two hundred feet. I saw >>>other fools, all alone in their vehicles wearing masks. Now we're told >>>that the cloth masks were worthless, as was the need to stay six feet >>>apart. Some people think their nanny-governments are honest and >>>wonderful. I don't. I think Fauci ought to be in prison
Cloth masks were excellent, if combined with social
distancing. New Zealand and Australia are proof of that. The disease
only spread when social media belittled the government.
Utter nonsense... The Cochrane Report concluded that there is no
evidence that the masks did any good.
<https://www.factcheck.org/2023/03/scicheck-what-the-cochrane-review-says-about-masks-for-covid-19-and-what-it-doesnt/>
And he quotes another #FAKE_NEWS.
The study was compromised. They had no idea if the subjects
used masks or not in the study.
"Seven studies took place in the community, and two studies in
healthcare workers. Compared with wearing no mask, wearing a mask may
make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like
illness (9 studies; 3507 people); and probably makes no difference in
how many people have flu confirmed by a laboratory test (6 studies;
3005 people)." >https://www.cochrane.org/news/featured-review-physical-interventions-interrupt-or-reduce-spread-respiratory-viruses
Probably not so in the US, or most repuglicans would be in
jail.
[]'s
I see you've joined the "make up a nasty pseudo-name for your >>>opponents" club. Don't you think that's kind of juvenile? I do.
What they do is "Ugly". It's an accurate description.
[]'s
Youre momma wears combat boots.
Only military-dictatorship lovers do that. My mother always
stated that the military should never be deployed INSIDE a country.
That's what the police are for.
Both can be true (bioweapon and timed for political
advantage). Clear proof (for or against either) will defy
historians.
On 6/7/2025 12:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 9:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/6/2025 2:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/6/2025 1:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
The "bioweapon" claim is deliberately inflammatory and senseless.
Much like the claim from one of my friends, who said all the Covid
fuss was just an attempt to influence the election.
But I guess conspiracy fans will conspire. :-/
Both can be true (bioweapon and timed for political advantage).
Clear proof (for or against either) will defy historians.
And as we know, lack of proof has never deterred conspiracy theorists!
Yes, unknown does not equal true. Nor false.
There was great sympathy in some quarters for Alger Hiss for 40+ years until his KGB file, reports and payroll records were released in the
Venona documents.
OTOH there will be no 'secrets' revealed in the perhaps once more
imminent JFK files release, after 60 years' grace period to destroy anything of import.
https://archive.is/SDjq1
On 6/9/2025 12:52 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 08:41:13 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:03:38 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 04:05:40 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:14:54 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 16:32:54 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 09:48:55 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:48:47 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
I didI suppose we'll never know how many people you killed... not >>>>>>> that you would lose a minute's sleep if it had been dozens.
fly several times during that period and I soon realised that the crew
didn't make an issue about lowering the mask below my chin. I walked >>>>>>>> around in three airports with the mask hanging around my neck >>>>>>>
[]'s
Don't be silly... How would I have killed anyone?
To deliberately infect someone with a disease is manslaughter >>>>> here in Brazil, if the victim dies.
I had no disease so I couldn't have infected anyone, deliberately, or >>>> otherwise.
How do you know? Did you do monthly tests? Note most people
were carriers, did not get pneumonia. Only 2% died.
Do a blood test today and see if you were a carrier or not.
FWIW, there were others on the plane and in the terminal with masks
lowered or taken off.
And there are people that shoot up schools. I fail to see how
that justifies manslaughter. "They killed people so I can too".
<EYEROLL>
On the other hand, I saw morons wearing masks
out on their bikes, with nobody else within two hundred feet. I saw
other fools, all alone in their vehicles wearing masks. Now we're told >>>> that the cloth masks were worthless, as was the need to stay six feet >>>> apart. Some people think their nanny-governments are honest and
wonderful. I don't. I think Fauci ought to be in prison
Cloth masks were excellent, if combined with social
distancing. New Zealand and Australia are proof of that. The disease
only spread when social media belittled the government.
Utter nonsense... The Cochrane Report concluded that there is no
evidence that the masks did any good.
<https://www.factcheck.org/2023/03/scicheck-what-the-cochrane-review-says-about-masks-for-covid-19-and-what-it-doesnt/>
And he quotes another #FAKE_NEWS.
The study was compromised. They had no idea if the subjects
used masks or not in the study.
"Seven studies took place in the community, and two studies in
healthcare workers. Compared with wearing no mask, wearing a mask may
make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like
illness (9 studies; 3507 people); and probably makes no difference in
how many people have flu confirmed by a laboratory test (6 studies;
3005 people)."
https://www.cochrane.org/news/featured-review-physical-interventions-interrupt-or-reduce-spread-respiratory-viruses
Probably not so in the US, or most repuglicans would be in >>>>> jail.
[]'s
I see you've joined the "make up a nasty pseudo-name for your
opponents" club. Don't you think that's kind of juvenile? I do.
What they do is "Ugly". It's an accurate description.
[]'s
Youre momma wears combat boots.
Only military-dictatorship lovers do that. My mother always
stated that the military should never be deployed INSIDE a country.
That's what the police are for.
[]'s
I do not know Brasil law.
Here, that's generally true, except for mob violence and/or
protection of Federal facilities.
We were also told to expect 2,200,000 US deaths. pffffft.
On 6/6/2025 11:35 AM, Shadow wrote:
Florida had one of the worse deaths/million population among
all American states(I'm excluding the blible belt states, because
praying actually increases death rates among practically all
diseases).
They should have voted for someone more capable of leading the
state.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 08:44:23 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 8:19 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 08:06:05 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 4:24 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:59:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 7:26 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank and Flunky persist in thinking that the Biden government was unquestionably good. Covid-19 taught them nothing at all.
I thought that Trump was president when Covid-19 hit.
The Biden administration and their cohorts in state governments used >>>> the disease as an excuse to take control of people's private lives and >>>> take away their civil liberties.
https://reason.com/2024/12/10/civil-liberties-lost-under-covid/
--
C'est bon
Soloman
The greater bulk of the assaults on liberty were by
Governors, Mayors, Secretaries of the States, 'public
health' factota and the like.
The White House and Democrat legislators supported them and
financially blackmailed states and businesses who refused to go along.
Thankfully, Florida resisted the best we could.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
And more importantly, promptly and effectively concentrated
services on the elderly (who are most vulnerable to death by
viral infection).
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/347019-ron-desantis-nursing-homes/
besides other strategies: >https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/08/13/1027370861/florida-gov-desantis-monoclonal-antibody-treatments-covid-19-spike
Compare: >https://apnews.com/article/new-york-andrew-cuomo-us-news-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-512cae0abb55a55f375b3192f2cdd6b5
<https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/>
Florida had one of the worse deaths/million population among
all American states(I'm excluding the blible belt states, because
praying actually increases death rates among practically all
diseases).
They should have voted for someone more capable of leading the
state.
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 08:59:15 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/7/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2025 8:45 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 14:33:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 11:35 AM, Shadow wrote:
????Florida had one of the worse deaths/million
population? among
all American states(I'm excluding the blible belt
states, because
praying actually increases death rates among practically
all
diseases).
????They should have voted for someone more capable of
leading the
state.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-
affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths
????Same in Brazil. More pronounced, maybe. Of every 8
patients
that went on to die that responded the census, 7 said they
were
Bolsonaro supporters(mostly non vaccinated and went to
"covid parties"
to get "natural immunity").
????Remember, Bolsonaro actually recommended NOT
vaccinating on
national TV. Said vaccines turned people into "communists"..
Oh, here we were told by some that the vaccine would make a
person magnetic; and that they were injecting microchips
into our blood stream to control us. To some, that sounded
all "sciency"!
We were also told to expect 2,200,000 US deaths. pffffft.
Well over 3.000.000 deaths in Brazil due to "idiopathic
respiratory failure". It's what killed my mother. Even with a positive
COVID test, it wasn't COVID.
Doctors in private clinics/health plans were ordered not to
mention COVID on the death certificates.
I have to take medicine because I caught it. My blood pressure
has never gone back to normal. I caught it before vaccines were
available. So three million died quickly. Others are still dying...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 19:56:14 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/brazil
"Estimated cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population during
COVID-19, Jun 17, 2024 for USA and Brazil" <https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/covid?time=latest&mapSelect=USA~BRA&Metric=Excess%20mortality%20(estimates)&Interval=Cumulative&Relative%20to%20population=true&country=USA~BRA~JPN~DEU>
Identical rates for excess deaths per 100,000 for USA and Brazil
sounds like someone has been tweaking the data from Brazil to make the
number more believable.
Also, notice that the confirmed cumulative (total) deaths per 100,000 population for Brazil is a constant 307 (flat line) from Mar 1, 2022
to May 11, 2025. This means that either Brazil has successfully
controlled the spread of Covid-19 (unlikely), or that Brazil simply
stopped reporting new cases (more likely).
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 19:56:14 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/brazil
"Estimated cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population during
COVID-19, Jun 17, 2024 for USA and Brazil" <https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/covid?time=latest&mapSelect=USA~BRA&Metric=Excess%20mortality%20(estimates)&Interval=Cumulative&Relative%20to%20population=true&country=USA~BRA~JPN~DEU>
Identical rates for excess deaths per 100,000 for USA and Brazil
sounds like someone has been tweaking the data from Brazil to make the number more believable.
Also, notice that the confirmed cumulative (total) deaths per 100,000 population for Brazil is a constant 307 (flat line) from Mar 1, 2022
to May 11, 2025. This means that either Brazil has successfully
controlled the spread of Covid-19 (unlikely), or that Brazil simply
stopped reporting new cases (more likely).
Indeed even without ?tweaking? countries do report such things, I vaguely remember that Belgium was one such place? So it appears worse than it is.
Let alone the judgment call as to did someone die with COVID or from it and all that!
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 21:40:04 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 8:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2025 19:56:14 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/brazil
"Estimated cumulative excess deaths per 100,000 population during
COVID-19, Jun 17, 2024 for USA and Brazil"
<https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/covid?time=latest&mapSelect=USA~BRA&Metric=Excess%20mortality%20(estimates)&Interval=Cumulative&Relative%20to%20population=true&country=USA~BRA~JPN~DEU>
Identical rates for excess deaths per 100,000 for USA and Brazil
sounds like someone has been tweaking the data from Brazil to make the
number more believable.
Also, notice that the confirmed cumulative (total) deaths per 100,000
population for Brazil is a constant 307 (flat line) from Mar 1, 2022
to May 11, 2025. This means that either Brazil has successfully
controlled the spread of Covid-19 (unlikely), or that Brazil simply
stopped reporting new cases (more likely).
More poking about shows various totals but not over one
million. I may have missed something more definitive.
Maybe 500K >https://www.statista.com/topics/6168/coronavirus-covid-19-in-brazil/#topicOverview
Maybe 700K >https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-maps-and-cases/
Maybe 711K
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/brazil/
I don't know but 3 million seems high for a 213 million
population.
The problem with predicting fatalities is that every country had their
own method of counting fatalities. The WHO tried to define something resembling standards, which mostly worked in countries where the
government was sufficiently stable that it was unlikely to be
overthrown by a failure to protect its citizens. I added to the
confusion by providing a graph that showed Excess Mortality numbers,
which are themselves little better than a guess. Most of the early
trend estimates came from the very rapid rise of new cases in the
early days of Covid-19. Extrapolating from such data after the
initial panic resulted in wide variations in projected new cases.
Looking at the world graph for cases and deaths, trying to estimate
anything before May 2020 was futile because of the rapid rise. Between
May 2020 and Feb 2022, it might be possible to speculate a trend.
After Feb 2022, it was all over, basically flat line, and fairly
useless for projections.
"Cumulative confirmed COVID-19 cases and deaths, United
States" <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-deaths-and-cases-covid-19?country=~USA>
and Brazil" <https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-deaths-and-cases-covid-19?country=~BRA>
Another problem was that the data collection and interpretation was
often performed by those who had a vested interest in the conclusions.
We had some of that in Santa Cruz County. Initially, every hospital
and public health organization created their own Covid-19 dashboards.
In multiple stages, various governmental organization literally
grabbed control of the data and produced their own dashboards. It was amazing how the same data could produce dramatically different
projections.
Since the slope of the curve was initially very steep, the computer
models produced results that suggested that everyone would soon be
dead or dying. Later projections were not so pessimistic, but since
they tended to continue using 2020 data (because that was all that was available for a year or two), the projections continued to predict
that we're all doomed. That's probably where the 3 million cases came
from.
Meanwhile, the politicians did their best to interfere and add
additional layers of confusion. I'm too lazy to provide some examples
but let's say that all sides did their best to "adjust" the numbers to
make themselves look comparatively better than their critics (and fund
their supporting organizations). Meanwhile, every student, scientist,
and politician was producing "survey" research articles in the belief
that averaging the widely varying data sources would somehow produce
sane projections on the assumption that all the errors would somehow
cancel each other out. Meanwhile, the only journals worth reading are
those that itemize retractions:
<https://retractionwatch.com> <https://retractionwatch.com/retracted-coronavirus-covid-19-papers/
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/8/2025 9:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/7/2025 9:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/7/2025 8:45 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 14:33:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 11:35 AM, Shadow wrote:
Florida had one of the worse deaths/million population among
all American states(I'm excluding the blible belt states, because >>>>>> praying actually increases death rates among practically all
diseases).
They should have voted for someone more capable of leading the
state.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party- affiliation-
linked-excess-covid-deaths
Same in Brazil. More pronounced, maybe. Of every 8 patients >>>> that went on to die that responded the census, 7 said they were
Bolsonaro supporters(mostly non vaccinated and went to "covid parties" >>>> to get "natural immunity").
Remember, Bolsonaro actually recommended NOT vaccinating on >>>> national TV. Said vaccines turned people into "communists"..
Oh, here we were told by some that the vaccine would make a person
magnetic; and that they were injecting microchips into our blood
stream to control us. To some, that sounded all "sciency"!
We were also told to expect 2,200,000 US deaths. pffffft.
Before vaccines, work-from-home, and PPE measures were instituted, Obviously, it all worked.
For some yes, note I work in social care, once it?s in the building it?s remarkably hard to contain and if folks have need of medical attention particularly regularly outpatient services sooner or later it will arrive
and that first winter was grim to put it mildly!
On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:38:34 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/7/2025 7:51 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 14:52:45 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 14:33:05 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 11:35 AM, Shadow wrote:
Florida had one of the worse deaths/million population among >>>>> all American states(I'm excluding the blible belt states, because
praying actually increases death rates among practically all
diseases).
They should have voted for someone more capable of leading the >>>>> state.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths
CIDRAP???
No, the source is JAMA. Cidrap is just relaying the
information.
JAMA is not political, if anything it tends to the right....
[]'s
Krygowski apparently believes everything he runs into that
supports his agenda.
"JAMA is not political, if anything it tends to the right."
That's hilarious!
For at least 50 years AMA has been proudly hard left,
reflecting its members' positions (which they ought to
reflect). Which is exactly why neither my MD brother nor
85% of US licensed MDs belong to AMA.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3153537/
AMA tends to the right.
Seems most American doctors decided that's not radical enough
for them, so they went extreme right.
What ethical doctor does not defend public medicine? The
health statistics alone show it's the most effective form of medicine.
On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 23:58:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Can you suggest what is wrong with a person who KNOWS that education is not mandatory in Mexico
Illiteracy in Mexico is very similar to the US... around 5%.
I'd say a person that KNOWS education is not mandatory in
Mexico is very ignorant, maybe illiterate. That's what's wrong with
him/her.
[]'s
PS 12 years of schooling is mandatory in Mexico,13 years in
Brazil vs only 10 years in the US. You don't need to be literate to
salute the flag, die as a soldier defending the rich's interests
abroad or to memorize (usually incorrectly) quotes from the blible.
On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 00:16:31 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Canada just forced a revote and proved that the Liberals there also counterfeited an election in the so-calleds honest country of Canada.
It was a recount, not a "revote".
"Conservatives secure 2 more seats after tight federal election
recounts" <https://globalnews.ca/news/11194570/canada-2025-federal-election-recounts/> The conservatives gained 2 seats. One recount was in Marystown, Newfoundland. 41,670 ballots were recounted. 1,000 ballots were
deemed questionable. After 2 weeks, 819 ballots were rejected.
There was also a recount in Windsor-Tecumseh-Lake Shore, Ontario,
which confirmed the original vote by 4 votes. I don't have any detail
on the recounting.
More detail:
"Judge rejected ballots marked in rectangular box containing
candidates? name in N.L. recount: report" <https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/how-a-judge-handled-an-unprecedented-1041-disputed-ballots-in-a-tight-nl-recount/>
"... "maybe as many as half" of the disputed ballots in the Terra
Nova-The Peninsulas riding were marked in the rectangular box
containing the candidates? name."
"Handrigan rejected the so-called "rectangle ballots," and a table accompanying his report indicates he ultimately dismissed more than
675 ballots."
There doesn't seem to be any allegations of fraud or Liberal
counterfeiting. Tom, where did you get your information?
None of this is true one shouldn?t believe everything one reads
particularly if it can?t verify!
On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 19:45:31 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 16 09:04:15 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 23:58:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Can you suggest what is wrong with a person who KNOWS that education is not mandatory in Mexico
Illiteracy in Mexico is very similar to the US... around 5%.
I'd say a person that KNOWS education is not mandatory in
Mexico is very ignorant, maybe illiterate. That's what's wrong with
him/her.
[]'s
PS 12 years of schooling is mandatory in Mexico,13 years in
Brazil vs only 10 years in the US. You don't need to be literate to
salute the flag, die as a soldier defending the rich's interests
abroad or to memorize (usually incorrectly) quotes from the blible.
Mandatory education in the US is from kindergarten to the 12th grade which is 134 years of mandatory education. You certainly have a very active imagination.
LOL
I love the math. Was that 50 year of schooling math or a
higher grade?
PS When you've figured out how to read a World map, look here
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_education>
Pretty picture
On 6/15/2025 10:32 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 00:16:31 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Canada just forced a revote and proved that the Liberals there also counterfeited an election in the so-calleds honest country of Canada.
It was a recount, not a "revote".
"Conservatives secure 2 more seats after tight federal election
recounts" <https://globalnews.ca/news/11194570/canada-2025-federal-election-recounts/>
The conservatives gained 2 seats. One recount was in Marystown, Newfoundland. 41,670 ballots were recounted. 1,000 ballots were
deemed questionable. After 2 weeks, 819 ballots were rejected.
There was also a recount in Windsor-Tecumseh-Lake Shore, Ontario,
which confirmed the original vote by 4 votes. I don't have any detail
on the recounting.
More detail:
"Judge rejected ballots marked in rectangular box containing
candidates? name in N.L. recount: report" <https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/how-a-judge-handled-an-unprecedented-1041-disputed-ballots-in-a-tight-nl-recount/>
"... "maybe as many as half" of the disputed ballots in the Terra
Nova-The Peninsulas riding were marked in the rectangular box
containing the candidates? name."
"Handrigan rejected the so-called "rectangle ballots," and a table accompanying his report indicates he ultimately dismissed more than
675 ballots."
There doesn't seem to be any allegations of fraud or Liberal counterfeiting. Tom, where did you get your information?
https://recoverynet.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/head_up_ass1.jpg
Tom, from where did you excavate your amazing information?
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your
informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
(Harlan Ellison)
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
(Aldous Huxley, Complete Essays, Vol. II: 1926-1929)
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." (Martin Luther King Jr)
"Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn." (Benjamin Franklin)
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
(George Orwell, 1984)
"Better be unborn than untaught, for ignorance is the root of
misfortune." (Plato)
More of the same:
<https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/ignorance>
Any member of congress/the senate is there to represent his state, and ultimately his country, NOT whoever happens to be president. They
control the power of the president, not vice-versa. They have the
power to remove the president, if he gets too far out of line
Only in a dictatorship does a president control the executive, the
judiciary and the legislative.
You aren't a liberal, you're a leftist and no better than your leader Adolf.
Adolf Hitler was a right wing fascist. Before he started killing
gypsies, he killed socialists. He had an unhealthy hatred for anyone
unlike himself. Something like your obvious hatred of Latinos.
Are you sure you can read?
?By their deeds you will know them." - Matthew 7:16 - not by their self-chosen labels.
On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 08:11:49 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/16/2025 7:14 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2025 00:16:31 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You again prove that you have no understanding of politics.
OK
Fully a third of the "republicans" in Congress during Trump's first term were RINO's, including Mike Pense, this time they all know that it they do not toe the line their careers in politics are over.
Any member of congress/the senate is there to represent his state, and
ultimately his country, NOT whoever happens to be president. They
control the power of the president, not vice-versa. They have the
power to remove the president, if he gets too far out of line
Only in a dictatorship does a president control the executive, the
judiciary and the legislative.
You aren't a liberal, you're a leftist and no better than your leader Adolf.
Adolf Hitler was a right wing fascist. Before he started killing
gypsies, he killed socialists. He had an unhealthy hatred for anyone
unlike himself. Something like your obvious hatred of Latinos.
Are you sure you can read?
[]'s
That's arguable.
His party was The National Socialists Party and, just like
Lenin, his first victims were the other socialist groups.
LOL. All the extreme right wing parties here in Brazil have
"socialist" or "social" in their names. Some add "democratic" too.
It's probably an inside joke. From what you say, the Brazilians copied
the Germans.
[]'s
Bolsonaro: Social Liberal Party
FHC: Brazilian Social Democracy Party
The 1964 coup far right military dictators formed the "Democratic
Social Party" when they were forced to hold elections....
On Sun, 15 Jun 2025 23:38:26 -0400, Frank KrygowskiHOW LONG did it take to end slavery? Do you think that dozens of court cases were not submitted before a war ensued? The Constitution was clear "All Men Are Created Equal" And it took killing most of the men in the south to force that upon them.
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/15/2025 8:24 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank, you just took mRNA vaccines for which NO ONE could ask any questions. And yet you do not believe that the same thing doesn't happen in the legal system? If a case is thrown out of lower courts it is generally not taken up by higher courts.
Tom seems even more agitated and nonsensical than usual. I wonder what's >going on there.
Same thought here. Completely nonsensical posts. Either
inebriated or had another minor stroke...
On 6/9/2025 12:27 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
There is a difference in this context in that the arguments remain
unaddressed in the court record.
Again: Competent teams of lawyers would have anticipated technicalities like legal standing, jurisdiction or whatever else might have hampered their legal claims that the election was invalid. Their strategies and procedures should have been built to deal with those things. And once a case was rejected, they could probably have taken legal steps to correct that rejection.
They did not do that in any of those well over 50 cases. ISTM that could not be because of mere incompetence. It could only be because they knew they had no chance of actually winning.
The entire effort was something between grasping at straws and a
deliberate sham to delude and mollify their faithful.
Also to set up the trope that the judiciary as a whole was against trump
- yet even trump lawyers threw out cases.
Face it, the evidence simply isn't there. That trump lost the 2024
election due to any type of voting irregularity is one of the biggest
lies ever perpetuated upon the american public. Even now, with the
purges in the justice department, such that trump bootlickers and
toadies are trashing the institutions, the trump DOJ still hasn't been
able to prove anything, let alone bring back cases they though were
unfairly dismissed.
And yes, if the evidence was there, he would, and you know it. For fucks sake, he's launched in investigation to see if people in the biden administration were covering up for his mental decline. If he's willing
to do that, why wouldn't he keep pushing to show election fraud?
Answer: there wasn't any. Sure, a few isolated cases here and there
(mostly by republicans trying to fix it for trump*) but nothing that
affected any race even at the most local level.
* and those individual were roundly praised by those on the right as
patriots being unfairly persecuted
On 6/9/2025 6:00 AM, zen cycle wrote:
That trump lost the 2024
election due to any type of voting irregularity is one of the biggest
lies ever perpetuated upon the american public.
Absolutely. It's a blatant attack on the most critical part of our
democracy.
But MAGA has now transformed it into a dogma. If you refuse to believe
it, they claim you are not fit for public office. They may soon claim
you are not fit to vote, or you are subject to deportation.
On 6/9/2025 11:56 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
One has to wonder why the Democrats are so opposed to efforts to
ensure that the only votes cast are from people who are qualified to
vote ...
They aren't, dumbass. They're against the false trope that there was widespread fraud. They're against the the lies that large numbers of unqualified individuals cast votes. They're against the demonization and assaults on the character of people who honestly worked their polling
places with integrity and certified election results to a result that
the magatards didn't like.
Elections in the the US are free and fair, with minimal cases of fraud.
The vast majority of ineligible votes cast are the result of
administrative errors and mistakes. The remainder are so small as to constitute an insignificant blip in the statistical noise.
When you want to enact legislation based on lies, you're doing it wrong.
On 6/9/2025 11:56 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
One has to wonder why the Democrats are so opposed to efforts to
ensure that the only votes cast are from people who are qualified to
vote ...
That's already true, and proven many dozens of times. False votes are
few, and favor republicans at least as often as democrats.
IOW, we see yet another right winger's horrible outrage over a
minuscule, insignificant problem.
On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 11:31:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/9/2025 6:00 AM, zen cycle wrote:
That trump lost the 2024
election due to any type of voting irregularity is one of the biggest
lies ever perpetuated upon the american public.
Absolutely. It's a blatant attack on the most critical part of our >democracy.
But MAGA has now transformed it into a dogma. If you refuse to believe
it, they claim you are not fit for public office. They may soon claim
you are not fit to vote, or you are subject to deportation.
One has to wonder why the Democrats are so opposed to efforts to
ensure that the only votes cast are from people who are qualified to
vote and have not scammed by roving "we'll help you vote" jackasses.
On 6/10/2025 4:59 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 05:09:37 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/9/2025 11:56 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
One has to wonder why the Democrats are so opposed to efforts to
ensure that the only votes cast are from people who are qualified to >>>> vote ...
They aren't, dumbass. They're against the false trope that there was
widespread fraud. They're against the the lies that large numbers of
unqualified individuals cast votes. They're against the demonization and >> assaults on the character of people who honestly worked their polling
places with integrity and certified election results to a result that
the magatards didn't like.
Elections in the the US are free and fair, with minimal cases of fraud.
The vast majority of ineligible votes cast are the result of
administrative errors and mistakes. The remainder are so small as to
constitute an insignificant blip in the statistical noise.
When you want to enact legislation based on lies, you're doing it wrong.
Re elections, etc.
Years ago when I lived in the U.S. I believe that there was a limit on
the amount of money that an organization or individual could give to support a political party running in an election
Seemed logical... rich folks couldn't dominate the party.
Now I read that the president's ex buddy was the largest contributor - millions of dollars.
My memory is fealty? Or they changed the rules?
--
cheers,
John B.
A complex question.
Direct contributions to a candidate or political party are
public and have a cap.
That said, the recordkeeping seems sketchy.
https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=andrew+muzi
[look up anyone's record there. It's entertaining]
Alternately position advertising not endorsed by a candidate
is exempt as are PACs which are a form of protected free
association and expression of opinion under our beloved 1st
Amendment.
IMHO, all efforts to 'get the money out of politics' over
the decades have resulted in more money for politics.
"Fictitious persons" AKA corporations cannot be physically punished nor executed. They cannot be drafted and sent to war. They cannot
(practically) be deported, although many "self deport" to operate from locations that will allow them to evade taxes and make even more money.
They have no loyalty to the nation they were "born" in, they often have
no concern for their community nor for the _real_ persons who live there.
They exert excessive influence over American politics and over the world
at large, to the detriment of countless _real_ persons. It's ludicrous
that they are given the "rights" that they enjoy.
But then, they've been able to buy very important judges.
Weirdly, they seem to now enjoy approval even from some
"individualistic" MAGA maniacs.
In context Mr Romney was correct. Fictitious persons share
many obligations, rights and liabilities with humans; They
pay taxes, can be sued civilly and criminally, they can
contract, own and dispose of property, etc. There are
differences; fictitious persons cannot vote.
The Court's reasoning is that extending individual rights to
associations (groups of individuals) is logical and
appropriate in the area of political speech.
The synopsis here is well crafted, the actual opinion is
also clear (albeit lengthy) below it. Both address your
concerns explicitly, notably by Mr Kennedy.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/558/310/
How many of those 'corporations' had to register for the draft?
the company I worked for in Indonesia was a combination of companies,
all owned by the same people but located in different countries so
taxes were not a simple matter.
I can assure you that every scheme to reduce taxes was first reviewed
by a group from management to review the feasibility of the scheme
regarding the operation of the company and then reviewed by both our
legal expert (registered to practice in both the U.S. and Indonesia)
and tax experts for the countries operated in.
And we were not unique as all the international oil companies we
worked for were doing exactly the same thing.
Answer: Voters on the right have been suckered into thinking this is
somehow good for them.
On 6/11/2025 8:35 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Suppose you and a thousand fellow thinkers want your voice heard on some issue. You're not George Soros, you can't buy great swaths ofI'm trying to decide whether you actually think that's a solution, or
advertising on your own. However one thousand and one of you can pool
your resources and be much more likely to be heard than one voice paying its own way in the wilderness.
whether it's some weird tongue-in-cheek proposal.
How would any common citizen mount a campaign to gather contributions
from 1000 citizens? If attempted, it would probably take weeeks of door
to door work. What amount do you suppose the average citizen would
donate for an advertising spot regarding any issue? Maybe $20 if they
felt passionately about it?
So hyper-optimistically, within two weeks such a campaign might be able
to spend $20,000 on an ad. That might buy one 30 second TV ad.
Meanwhile, a large corporation with opposing views could buy contrary
ads running daily for a month, paid for by their Pocket Change account.
In article <moH5Q.1287571$mjgd.653657@fx09.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Put up or shut up. NO government schools are forced to post the ten >commandments.
Not that Fox News is the bastion of unbiased correctness, but I believe
these facts are basically undisputed.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/louisiana-governor-defends-displaying-10-commandments-schools-us-founded-judeo-christian-values
On 6/22/2025 8:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2025 6:17 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <moH5Q.1287571$mjgd.653657@fx09.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Put up or shut up. NO government schools are forced to post the ten
commandments.
Not that Fox News is the bastion of unbiased correctness, but I believe
these facts are basically undisputed.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/louisiana-governor-defends-
displaying-10-commandments-schools-us-founded-judeo-christian-values
Yes you are correct and it's a subject of current litigation.
And not just louisiana
https://www.texastribune.org/2025/05/24/ten-commandments-texas-schools-senate-bill-10/
"Come September, every public school classroom will be required to
display the Ten Commandments ? part of a larger push in Texas and beyond
to increase the role of religion in schools.
On Saturday, Gov. Greg Abbott signed Senate Bill 10, despite a federal
court ruling that a similar Louisiana law violated a constitutionally required separation of church and state."
--
Add xx to reply
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 23:17:18 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us> wrote:
In article <moH5Q.1287571$mjgd.653657@fx09.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Put up or shut up. NO government schools are forced to post the ten >>commandments.
Sounds logical. No government has ever respected the 10
commandments. Unfortunately, fanatics are not very logical.
Not that Fox News is the bastion of unbiased correctness, but I believe >these facts are basically undisputed.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/louisiana-governor-defends-displaying-10-commandments-schools-us-founded-judeo-christian-values
Tom says that something does not exist/happen, is brutal,
criminal, unfair or unconstitutional.
When he discovers it's not the opposition that did it, he will
say he supports it and he knew all about it and has always supported
it.
So now you know Tom.
<https://thumbsnap.com/i/nUmv3fK6.jpg>
Tom. I presume that you have references, sources and substantiation
for your amazing facts? I don't like to discuss Hitler, but this is
too big a temptation to demonstrate that you are full of [insert
something disgusting].
"Nazism, socialism and the falsification of history"
(Aug 20, 2018, updated Jan 30 2025) <https://www.abc.net.au/religion/nazism-socialism-and-the-falsification-of-history/10214302>
"Hitler became Chancellor in 1933 and made good on his promises to
business and his voters to destroy socialism in Germany. Most of 1933
was spent persecuting socialists and communists, liquidating their
parties, incarcerating and in numerous cases killing their leadership
and rank-and-file members."
Hint: Just because the party names happen to include the terms
socialist, democratic, republic or Christian, does not guarantee that
the party is actually socialist, democratic, republic or Christian.
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 19:55:06 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You must be really bad at being able to tell illegals from citizens.
And yet the last 3 you accused of being "unlawful little green
men" turned out to be American, bred and born....
I pointed it out to you...
On Sat, 14 Jun 2025 20:00:08 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 9 08:39:07 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 21:19:57 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2025 23:23:47 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
And once again "cyclintom" inserts illegal code in his message.
Eternal-September removed the content.
He said
"California DMV may very well issue driver's licences to illegals as
Real_ID and that is pretty sure. Probably 1/4th of the workers at the
DMV are already illegals."
To which I replied:
" LOL !!!
I love it. Keep it up!
When was the last time that you applied for a license at the California DMV? Half of the people at the DMV's are hispanics
Low paying job, sounds about right.... Let me guess, many are
black too. Very few Caucasians and Asians?
and half of them don't speak English!
Most Trump voters are practically illiterate. I'm not sure
where you're going with this argument.
DMV doesn't hire translators, they simply hire illegal employees.
Do you have any links? If 50% of the workforce is "unlawful"
some PITA repuglican senator must have opened an enquiry.
You should write to your senator. You did? What did he
suggest? OMG, that must hurt. Hope you didn't follow his advice.
"LOL" because you know not what you speak of.
Thanks for a site that has HIGH credibility and is CENTER in opinions....
The quotes from the magaman-X "publications" were making me
feel a bit sick.
BTW, I saw your youtube video. I would have thought Tom had a
lower pitched voice, but WTF, it's June!
And despite all the pearl clutching about democratic money influence (as
if there wasn't any republican money doing the same thing for their side https://www.axios.com/2025/06/05/musk-trump-feud-2024-election-contributions),
no one has been able to do anything more than come up with incredible allegations of election fraud.
On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 08:08:34 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Besides which, Mr Zuckerberg installed his own staff in
Brown County WI (Green Bay) to manage election results,
since the famously corrupt Milwaukee County had posted
literally unbelievable results in 2016 (and before, and
since) to give the Wisconsin results the crucial 'bump'.
https://thefga.org/research/the-wisconsin-zuckerbucks-problem/
LOL. They want children out of schools and working in
factories. And the prohibition of any form of charity toward poor
people. Donations to the stinking rich are OK, specially it it's
tax-payer's money.
Really?
https://www.westernjournal.com/wisconsin-election-official-says-zuckerberg-funded-group-seized-control-2020-election/
Please quote from something that's center-right. Not extreme absolute
fascist right #FAKE_NEWS.
<https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/western-journalism/>
I wasted a while reading the article before I got a WTF? Zukerberg
didn't support and finance Trump? No way !
On 6/13/2025 1:20 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 15:46:32 +0200, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
The usual far-right characters wrote:
I mean, Larry Krasner, Kim Foxx and Chesa Boudin? Really??
George Gascon, Alvin Bragg, Andrew Warren, Buta Biberaj..
https://www.policedefense.org/sorosmap/
50 million? Blimey, that's nothing compared to Elon's spending.
Worse, all those "traitors" want big-time criminals behind
bars. They say there are enough poor people in jail for being
homeless, unemployed or "loitering".
They imply policemen that murder civilians should be held
accountable.
Crazy, huh?
Not Musk! He wants a Presidential pardon for every single
billionaire that evaded paying tax. Plus more hand-outs.
[]'s
This is Trumps pardon list since January 20. Plenty of fellow grifters
and fraudsters.
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-grants-president-donald-j-trump-2025-present
50 million? Blimey, that's nothing compared to Elon's spending.
On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 15:46:32 +0200, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
The usual far-right characters wrote:
I mean, Larry Krasner, Kim Foxx and Chesa Boudin? Really??
George Gascon, Alvin Bragg, Andrew Warren, Buta Biberaj..
https://www.policedefense.org/sorosmap/
50 million? Blimey, that's nothing compared to Elon's spending.
Worse, all those "traitors" want big-time criminals behind
bars. They say there are enough poor people in jail for being
homeless, unemployed or "loitering".
They imply policemen that murder civilians should be held
accountable.
Crazy, huh?
Not Musk! He wants a Presidential pardon for every single
billionaire that evaded paying tax. Plus more hand-outs.
essentially finding that Mr Abrego Garcia's asylum claim, denied above,
is reinstated by the Court.
Final decision is:
I. the Respondent's application for asylum pursuant to INA 208 is DENIED;
II. the Respondent's application for withholding of removal pursuant to
INA 241(b)(3) is GRANTED; and
III. the Respondent's application for withholding of removal under the Convention Against Torture is DENIED;
Which does explain so much confusion in the reportage. Makes no sense to
me either but I am not the decider.
You're Welcome, and let me also express appreciation that you took the
time to review the information available rather than simply buy the media
The media is not the decider either, but so much is (and has been)
decided by the media over the decades. That might explain the claim
'Judge Jones didn't say he couldn't be deported, just that he could he deported to el salvador or Guatemala'. That's written here:
"B. Withholding of Removal Pursuant to INA 241(b)(3)
Withholding of removal, in contrast to asylum, confers only the right
not to be deported to a particular country rather than the right to
remain in the U.S."
What to order did _not_ say was that he could still be deported.
What the order did _not_ say was that he was a gang member (in fact,
from the information contained in the order it seems more reasonable to interpret that Judge Jones did _not_ consider evidence that:
"Exhibit 4 is a Prince George's County Police Department Gang Field
Interview Sheet. It was admitted for the limited purpose of showing that
the Respondent was labeled a gang member by law enforcement."
was credible enough to enter into the case. If he was a gang member,
there were enough precedents listed in that order that being a
'renouncing gang membership' or being in a rival gang was _not_ grounds
for approving any stay in deportation.
So Mr. Garcia was deported to el salvador, despite a court order from
several years earlier explicitly stating he couldn't be deported to el salvador.
The DOJ and ICE knowingly violated a court order. Who's the real
criminal here?
There is also no evidence from anyone, anywhere, that "two judges found
him likely to be a gang member" (if true, such findings would be readily available as was Judge Jones order).
There is also scant evidence that he was engaged in human trafficking.
Based on the governments behaviour to this point, I ain't buyin' it.
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar Abrego Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice Department
employee who added that was fired the next morning and the filing emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the courts
say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did
not cover the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust survivor, in Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed not interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be that
eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like
NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its implications.
Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly against attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But "immolation of
live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means
burning to death. I gather only one person out of the eight was
seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your grip
on your own pearls!
I wouldn't expect the NYT to cover an anti-Israeli terror attack.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 08:35:21 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Odd how two people can watch a video of an old lady rolling
in pain under flames and see different things. YMMV.
Brazilian media showed Palestinian children burning. There
were at least 8 children reduced to carbon by bombs (and flame
throwers) in civilian districts.Children under 7 years old. Did that
make the headlines in the US? Or just the "old lady"?
PS It was all over the European news, from right wing
Telegraph and The Economist to left wing Guardian.
On 6/3/2025 12:01 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar
Abrego Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice
Department employee who added that was fired the next morning and the
filing emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the
courts say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did not cover
the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust survivor,
in Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.' Deemed
not interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be
that eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like
NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its implications.
Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly against
attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But "immolation of
live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means
burning to death. I gather only one person out of the eight was
seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your grip
on your own pearls!
Airlifted to regional burn center is more serious than any burn I've
ever suffered. HIPA once again interferes with the details but here's
the expert:
https://kdvr.com/news/local/burn-surgeon-speaks-on-boulder-terror- attack-victims-recovery-while-few-still-remain-in-hospital/
Six of the 12 victims were not bandaged and discharged. They remain at
the burn center. These are serious injuries.
Serious injuries? Yes, and I wouldn't want them. Immolation? No, not by definition. And your article, while related, is devoid of actual
information about the seriousness of the burns.
I'd be happy with the following edit of your statement: "... whose front
page did not cover the serious burn injuries of a few U.S. citizens ..."
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2025 1:44 PM, cyclintom wrote:
while I COULD break bones of you, Liebermann and Flunky, I wouldn't. INobody believes that, Tom. You're an old man with self-described balance and vision problems. I see no reason to believe you are particularly
would just like you to know just how powerless you are.
strong or have acceptable reflexes.
I suspect that if you did get into a fight, all a person would have to
do would be dodge your swing once or twice. You'd soon lose your balance and fall to the ground. And I think you know that, so you'd avoid acting out your silly threats.
Consider therapy, Tom. It may help.
Indeed! The idea that a 80+ would be a threat or threatening, is as ever
not believable let alone balance problems.
This would be tommy
https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-politician-appears-pee-pants-190444233.html
On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 06:23:55 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 7/1/2025 4:05 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/30/2025 1:44 PM, cyclintom wrote:Indeed! The idea that a 80+ would be a threat or threatening, is as ever >> not believable let alone balance problems.
while I COULD break bones of you, Liebermann and Flunky, I wouldn't. I >>>> would just like you to know just how powerless you are.Nobody believes that, Tom. You're an old man with self-described balance >>> and vision problems. I see no reason to believe you are particularly
strong or have acceptable reflexes.
I suspect that if you did get into a fight, all a person would have to >>> do would be dodge your swing once or twice. You'd soon lose your balance >>> and fall to the ground. And I think you know that, so you'd avoid acting >>> out your silly threats.
Consider therapy, Tom. It may help.
Roger Merriman
This would be tommy
https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-politician-appears-pee-pants-190444233.html
Who would have thought Trump would end up being a fashion
model?
I like the idea. Drink enough to appear demented. That'll
work.
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 23:59:44 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the post war years the bay area was very good to the Portuguese.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estado_Novo_%28Portugal%29>
Portugal's right wing dictatorship ended in 1974. When it
managed to break free from the police state, Portugal had one of the
lowest literacy and per capital incomes in Europe. No wonder people
tried to leave Portugal.
The socialist takeover in 1974 was a blessing ... look at the
stats now.... a completely different country.
Though social media is bringing back the right wing fascists
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 12:54:58 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 09:09:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>Brasil has had net emiragtion for years.
True, but from 2003-2015 more people came back to Brasil than
left it.
The data I found doesn't agree with that. Mostly, I find the net
migration in and out of Brazil shows mostly a population loss:
World Bank using UN data: <https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=BR>
Statista
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/1392875/migration-rate-brazil/>
Macro Trends <https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/bra/brazil/net-migration>
As Frank pointed out, people go where it's best for their
futures(and their children's futures). Still haven't figured out why
they choose the US, though.
Same as every other immigrant. The POTENTIAL for improving one's life
is possible. Whether the US is capable of delivering is questionable.
I suspect it doesn't matter how much the US delivers as long as the US
is an improvement over the old country.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 11:36:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar Abrego
Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice Department
employee who added that was fired the next morning and the filing
emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the courts >say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
In El Salvador where MS13 thugs belong.
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 10:59:43 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 12:54:58 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 09:09:35 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>Brasil has had net emiragtion for years.
True, but from 2003-2015 more people came back to Brasil than
left it.
The data I found doesn't agree with that. Mostly, I find the net
migration in and out of Brazil shows mostly a population loss:
World Bank using UN data: ><https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=BR>
Statista ><https://www.statista.com/statistics/1392875/migration-rate-brazil/>
Macro Trends ><https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/bra/brazil/net-migration>
Looked at "your" data. Found it strange that
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_net_migration_rate>
Shows Brazil as having a practically insignificant value (-0.2
%), and that was in 2022, during Bolsonaro's "diaspora".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Net_Migration_Rate,_Population_Reference_Bureau,_Current.svg>
Brazil is white ... close to zero.
Venezuela is receiving hundreds of thousands, which is
probably because they have one of the highest HDIs in South America.
Much more than the US under his highness Biden.
People are coming back to Brazil. Unemployment is down,
salaries are up, our HDI is better under Lula. The only people leaving
Brazil for the US are criminals. And ICE apparently welcomes them.
Also I found Statista very biased. Whenever the stats don't
support the "market" (AKA right wing rhetoric) the data is either nonexistent or terribly out of date. Check Argentina and poverty
(specially rural) , unemployment or salaries.
On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 11:36:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/3/2025 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There was a false statement inserted into a filing in re Kilmar Abrego
Garcia that he had been deported in error. The Justice Department
employee who added that was fired the next morning and the filing
emended...
Got a citation or other evidence for that claim? And what did the courts >say about this issue? And where is Mr. Garcia now?
In El Salvador where MS13 thugs belong.
As Monday morning's NYT for example, whose front page did
not cover the immolation of live US citizens, including a Holocaust
survivor, in Boulder by an illegal jihadi screaming 'free palestine.'
Deemed not interesting enough by editorial staff.
I don't get a print edition of NYT; but your complaint seems to be that >eight people getting various degrees of burns did not get enough
attention, despite it being on every news outlet. It looks to me like
NYT has since done many articles on the incident and its implications.
Are you trying to say NYT does sufficiently protest antisemitism?
And BTW, what happened was despicable. As you know, I'm firmly against >attempts to harm or kill groups of innocent people. But "immolation of
live US citizens" is more than a little exaggerated. It usually means >burning to death. I gather only one person out of the eight was
seriously burned.
There's no excuse for the attack, but you can slightly relax your grip
on your own pearls!
I wouldn't expect the NYT to cover an anti-Israeli terror attack.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 23:57:23 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>advisors.
wrote:
I wrote to Trump and Dr. Scott Atlas and Trump replaced his medical advisor from Fauci to Atlas who was a member of the Hoover Institute at Stanford. EVERYTHING that Fauci had advised Trump was wrong. And Trump was not an MD and needed to trust his
Dr Scott Atlas was hired as Special Corona Virus advisor to President
Trump in Aug 2020: <https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/09/trumps-new-covid-adviser-is-basically-the-anti-fauci>
and resigned in Nov 2020: <https://www.npr.org/2020/11/30/940376041/dr-scott-atlas-special-coronavirus-adviser-to-trump-resigns>
On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 23:09:44 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
remember that there are about a million Jews in NYC
Not just New York City. Besides the 5 boroughs of NYC, Nassau,
Suffolk and Westchester counties are usually included in the count.
"Jewish population of New York reaches 1.4 million" (May 14, 2024) <https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/jewish-population-of-new-york-reaches-14-million-rj1jw48x>
Do process, don't process, there is no try process.
(My apologies to Yoda)
No kidding...Now tommy invents a fantasy story of hospitalizing someone.
If that were true, do you think tommy would have waited ten years to
tell us about it?
Maybe 20 years ago but as with life it passes!
On Sun, 6 Jul 2025 09:47:36 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
No kidding...Now tommy invents a fantasy story of hospitalizing someone.
If that were true, do you think tommy would have waited ten years to
tell us about it?
Tom waited 6 years to warn the world about the alleged dangers of
carbon fiber bicycles. Tom's accident was in 2010:
05/14/2010 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/Sgfdk0T4HlI/m/htJl6zQSimgJ> "My CARBON fork collapsed about three months ago and planted me face
first onto the asphalt. The helmet never even touched the ground. The injuries caused are just beginning to clear up."
Tom's warnings were in 2016 and were posted to at least 3 different
bicycle forums. This one is the best because Tom claims that the
accident happened to "my friend Tom Kunich (who was also riding a full
carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill." It also includes
an email exchange with Colnago's legal council.
(July 10, 2016)
"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes" <https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
You?re living in a fantasy world if you expect folks to believe a 70/80
year old recovering from concussion, would be able to fight, or frankly
pose a threat!
Maybe 20 years ago but as with life it passes!
Some people are much more fearful than others.
There's "zero detriment" only for people who regularly use guns anyways.
If a rookie sees the need to carry a gun for cycling, they first have to
buy a gun (which implies filling the paperwork needed, which implies
getting the necessary licences if needed). Then they have to spend lots
of hours training to use a gun which they might prefer spending on
bicycling.
Am 06.07.2025 um 18:30 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
On Sun, 6 Jul 2025 12:07:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/6/2025 9:14 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
floriduh dumbass <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Which is why I carry a gun on my bike rides.
Admittedly I?m younger and have a ?solid build? but I don?t see
personal
risks in that way being at all likely on bike rides...
Some people are much more fearful than others.
Some people weigh the benefits and detriments and make wise decisions.
There's a small benefit to carrying a gun, but there's zero
detriments.
Zero indeed.... https://www.8newsnow.com/crime/police-investigate-homicide-in-downtown-las-vegas-4/
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-subway-shooting-charges-man-shot-hoyt-schermerhorn-station/14554319/
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-subway-shooting-charges-man-shot-hoyt-schermerhorn-station/14554319/
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/23/us/video/jacksonville-police-shot-man-accidentally-at-traffic-stop-digvid
I'm willing to bet each of of those fully legal and licensed carriers
said "There's a small benefit to carrying a gun, but there's zero
detriments" as well.
zero detriments....Gawd yer a dumbass.
On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 12:03:50 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 7/7/2025 10:55 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 7/7/2025 11:18 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
Am 06.07.2025 um 18:30 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
On Sun, 6 Jul 2025 12:07:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/6/2025 9:14 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
floriduh dumbass <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Which is why I carry a gun on my bike rides.
Admittedly I?m younger and have a ?solid build? but I
don?t see personal
risks in that way being at all likely on bike rides...
Some people are much more fearful than others.
Some people weigh the benefits and detriments and make
wise decisions.
There's a small benefit to carrying a gun, but there's zero
detriments.
Zero indeed....
https://www.8newsnow.com/crime/police-investigate-
homicide-in-downtown- las-vegas-4/
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-subway-shooting-charges-man-
shot-hoyt- schermerhorn-station/14554319/
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-subway-shooting-charges-man-
shot-hoyt- schermerhorn-station/14554319/
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/23/us/video/jacksonville-
police-shot-man- accidentally-at-traffic-stop-digvid
I'm willing to bet each of of those fully legal and
licensed carriers said "There's a small benefit to
carrying a gun, but there's zero detriments" as well.
zero detriments....Gawd yer a dumbass.
Just noticed I listed the same link twice - I meant for one
to be this one:
https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/man-disarmed-and-shot-
with-own-handgun-in-parking-lot/
Interesting comment on that one:
- GeneO on March 1, 2023 at 5:49 pm
? " I am a retired LEO. I call open carry the ?shoot me
first? tactic. Not a fan."
Yes that's true. And worse:
https://ksltv.com/crime-public-safety/family-mourn-protester-killed-no-kings-shooting/786412/
But then again: >https://abc13.com/post/houston-store-owner-shoots-robbery-suspect-posed-police-video-shows/16857433/
There are travesties and victories under many dissimilar
situations. One never knows on any given morning.
I am very much opposed to open carry except for law enforcement.
On 7/7/2025 11:18 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
Am 06.07.2025 um 18:30 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
On Sun, 6 Jul 2025 12:07:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/6/2025 9:14 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
floriduh dumbass <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Which is why I carry a gun on my bike rides.
Admittedly I?m younger and have a ?solid build? but I don?t see
personal
risks in that way being at all likely on bike rides...
Some people are much more fearful than others.
Some people weigh the benefits and detriments and make wise decisions. >>> There's a small benefit to carrying a gun, but there's zero
detriments.
Zero indeed.... https://www.8newsnow.com/crime/police-investigate-homicide-in-downtown- las-vegas-4/
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-subway-shooting-charges-man-shot-hoyt- schermerhorn-station/14554319/
https://abc7ny.com/brooklyn-subway-shooting-charges-man-shot-hoyt- schermerhorn-station/14554319/
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/23/us/video/jacksonville-police-shot-man- accidentally-at-traffic-stop-digvid
I'm willing to bet each of of those fully legal and licensed carriers
said "There's a small benefit to carrying a gun, but there's zero detriments" as well.
zero detriments....Gawd yer a dumbass.
Just noticed I listed the same link twice - I meant for one to be this one:
https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/man-disarmed-and-shot-with-own-handgun-in-parking-lot/
Interesting comment on that one:
- GeneO on March 1, 2023 at 5:49 pm
" I am a retired LEO. I call open carry the ?shoot me first? tactic.
Not a fan."
For those who are simply uninterested in guns, or who are insufficiently fearful, the detriments outweigh the minuscule potential (but
unrealistic) benefits.
And almost all who are fearful enough to want a gun for a bike ride
would admit they have never used its "protection," if they were being
honest.
On 5 Jul 2025 07:48:45 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 23:09:44 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>That?s quite a bit higher than Britain or London which is lower in number >and probably % of the population, at most half a million with half of that >in London.
wrote:
remember that there are about a million Jews in NYC
Not just New York City. Besides the 5 boroughs of NYC, Nassau,
Suffolk and Westchester counties are usually included in the count.
"Jewish population of New York reaches 1.4 million" (May 14, 2024)
<https://www.thejc.com/news/usa/jewish-population-of-new-york-reaches-14-million-rj1jw48x>
Do process, don't process, there is no try process.
(My apologies to Yoda)
Roger Merriman
You might find the Jewish populations of various cities, expressed as
a percentage of total population, of interest:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_city>
Click on the "% of Jews out of total population" column heading to
sort by percent.
"Nearly all these key centers of Jewish settlement typically include
national or regional capitals with high standards of living, advanced infrastructure supporting higher education and technology sectors, and extensive transnational connections."
"New York City is home to the largest Jewish community outside of
Israel. In 2011, according to the UJA-Federation of New York, the five boroughs of New York City proper was home to 1,086,000 Jews,
representing 13% of the city's population. In 2023, 960,000 Jews live
in the city, nearly half of them live in Brooklyn."
Ignoring cities in Israel:
New York City 10.8%
Miami 8.7%
Philadelphia 6.8%
Boston 5.1%
San Francisco 5.0%
etc Less than 5%
Also interesting is that Jews represent only 0.2% of the world
population:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country>
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 04:27:07 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:29:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 8:22 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Around here the idiot governor has driven most good people out of the state and they have been replace by honest hard working illegals. No one is coming back to the worst state just because it has the best weather.
I spent a week there not long ago. You're right, Tom, Mountain View,
Palo Alto, San Jose, Cupertino, San Francisco were like deserts! Nobody >>as far as the eye could see! :-)
I don't know what caused all the traffic. Robotaxis in disguise? But who >>would need them?
With over 817,000 residents leaving in 2023, California continues to
have one of the highest outbound migration rates. High housing costs, >rising taxes, and concerns about affordability are pushing residents
to states like Texas and Arizona. When asked what state has the most
people leaving, California consistently ranks at the top due to its
high cost of living and economic challenges. >https://clancymoving.com/blog/2025/april/moving-statistics-and-trends-for-2025-what-to-expect-this-year/
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_exodus#Demographics>
Leaving Calif -690,127 in 2023
Entering Calif +422,075 in 2023
=================================
Net change -268,052
Source of data: <https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html>
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 19:52:16 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 16:27:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 04:27:07 -0400, Catrike Ryder >><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:29:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 8:22 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Around here the idiot governor has driven most good people out of the state and they have been replace by honest hard working illegals. No one is coming back to the worst state just because it has the best weather.
I spent a week there not long ago. You're right, Tom, Mountain View, >>>>Palo Alto, San Jose, Cupertino, San Francisco were like deserts! Nobody >>>>as far as the eye could see! :-)
I don't know what caused all the traffic. Robotaxis in disguise? But who >>>>would need them?
With over 817,000 residents leaving in 2023, California continues to >>>have one of the highest outbound migration rates. High housing costs, >>>rising taxes, and concerns about affordability are pushing residents
to states like Texas and Arizona. When asked what state has the most >>>people leaving, California consistently ranks at the top due to its >>>high cost of living and economic challenges. >>>https://clancymoving.com/blog/2025/april/moving-statistics-and-trends-for-2025-what-to-expect-this-year/
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_exodus#Demographics>
Leaving Calif -690,127 in 2023
Entering Calif +422,075 in 2023
=================================
Net change -268,052
Source of data: >><https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html>
I'd like to see the in/out numbers of registered voters
Thanks for ignoring what I wrote. Your numbers from Clancy Relocation
and Logistics appear to be faulty and not very authoritative. I
suggest you find a better source that provides sources for its
numbers. You also ignored everyone entering California.
I couldn't find anything that counted California in-migration and out-migration by voter registration or political party affiliation.
Perhaps I could provide an answer if you could rewrite your request
into something that I can feed to an AI. Using ChatGPT 3 and asking:
"What is the percent immigration, in and out of California by
political party in 2024?" <https://chatgpt.com/share/68439ab9-02c0-800c-8ef4-8b182445d370>
I could try to squeeze some better and more specific info out of the
AI, but I would need a clue as to what you are looking for. I can
also ask other AI's and/or reword the request. I don't care about
what you're trying to prove. Just what information you need to prove
your point.
On 7/7/2025 7:01 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 19:14:29 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Let me see now, your hero, Gavbin Loathsome has made California a sancturary city that releases illegal alien murderers out to pray on citizen
He's doing a terrible job, choosing the wrong guys. Stats show
that violent crime committed by immigrants is minimal compared to the carnage Americans do.
I suggest you vote for Gavin Handsome next time. Great
politician, and he's not a even a fascist!
[]'s
I'd think tommy - the worlds best christian* - would be happy with a
penal system where the offenders would pray on others once released.
* Apologies to Betty Bowers.
On 6/6/2025 6:52 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 16:27:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2025 04:27:07 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:29:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 8:22 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Around here the idiot governor has driven most good people out of the state and they have been replace by honest hard working illegals. No one is coming back to the worst state just because it has the best weather.
I spent a week there not long ago. You're right, Tom, Mountain View, >>>> Palo Alto, San Jose, Cupertino, San Francisco were like deserts! Nobody >>>> as far as the eye could see! :-)
I don't know what caused all the traffic. Robotaxis in disguise? But who >>>> would need them?
With over 817,000 residents leaving in 2023, California continues to
have one of the highest outbound migration rates. High housing costs,
rising taxes, and concerns about affordability are pushing residents
to states like Texas and Arizona. When asked what state has the most
people leaving, California consistently ranks at the top due to its
high cost of living and economic challenges.
https://clancymoving.com/blog/2025/april/moving-statistics-and-trends-for-2025-what-to-expect-this-year/
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_exodus#Demographics>
Leaving Calif -690,127 in 2023
Entering Calif +422,075 in 2023
=================================
Net change -268,052
Source of data:
<https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html>
I'd like to see the in/out numbers of registered voters
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Registered voters never leave, even in death. Here's just
one county, which settled after three years of litigation
(eventually found not in compliance with National Voter Act):
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/la-county-and-state-to-purge-15-million-inactive-voters-from-rolls/6866/
Will they actually remove dead/moved names? Maybe, but maybe
not. The process is yet ongoing and there are 57 other
California counties.
On 7/11/2025 8:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2025 6:50 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 23:32:05 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
My illegal next door neighbors
Why haven't you reported them to Trump's Police State?
They'll put them on the plane without even checking their
nationality. It's their word against yours...
[]'s
Nothing about the problem, and none of the solutions, are novel. We've
been here before and we shall inevitably be here again and the sky isn't falling any time soon.
https://www.history.com/articles/operation-wetback-eisenhower-1954- deportation
Recently:
https://infographicsite.com/infographic/deportations-under-us- presidents-statistics/
Long time scale numbers: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39
The radio news (no TeeVee, but I assume similar content) just harangues
Mr Holman every day about deportations. Interestingly, he held the exact same job in the Obama administrations and directed about 9 million deportations then with hardly a media mention. Odd isn't it?
It's certainly interesting. But in all those previous years, I don't
recall anything about massive raids by armed and armored agents wearing
masks and no visible identification, and giving no opportunity for legal representation or appeal. If that was happening under, say, Biden and
Obama, the right wing media should have been all over it.
I also don't remember hearing about shipping aliens directly off to
prisons in other countries. Was that done? Enlighten me.
On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 23:32:05 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
My illegal next door neighbors
Why haven't you reported them to Trump's Police State?
They'll put them on the plane without even checking their
nationality. It's their word against yours...
On 6/6/2025 7:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_exodus#Demographics>
Leaving Calif -690,127 in 2023
Entering Calif +422,075 in 2023
=================================
Net change -268,052
Source of data: <https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geographic-mobility/state-to-state-migration.html>
So 268,000 out of a state population of about 40 million.
Gosh, that's nearly 7/10 of one percent! Horrors!
On 7/7/2025 11:55 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/man-disarmed-and-shot-with-own- handgun-in-parking-lot/
Interesting comment on that one:
- GeneO on March 1, 2023 at 5:49 pm
" I am a retired LEO. I call open carry the ?shoot me first? tactic. Not a fan."
Other comments were interesting. A frequent theme was "I carry my gun
_this_ way so it's always protected and ready; and I practice SO
diligently!"
Right. The world is so, so dangerous that you must be armed at all
times. And when the evil bad guy finally appears (after decades of your paranoia and practicing) you're finally going to be the hero, acting out
your fantasies and save the day!
So manly? No, so childish and fearful. And such a waste of time, expense
and effort.
On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 20:05:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/7/2025 11:55 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/man-disarmed-and-shot-with-own-
handgun-in-parking-lot/
Interesting comment on that one:
- GeneO on March 1, 2023 at 5:49 pm
? " I am a retired LEO. I call open carry the ?shoot me first? tactic.
Not a fan."
Other comments were interesting. A frequent theme was "I carry my gun >_this_ way so it's always protected and ready; and I practice SO >diligently!"
Right. The world is so, so dangerous that you must be armed at all
times. And when the evil bad guy finally appears (after decades of your >paranoia and practicing) you're finally going to be the hero, acting out >your fantasies and save the day!
So manly? No, so childish and fearful. And such a waste of time, expense >and effort.
It doesn't take any of your time, expense, and effort, so why does it
bother you so much?
On 7/7/2025 1:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Yes that's true. And worse:
https://ksltv.com/crime-public-safety/family-mourn-protester-killed-no- kings-shooting/786412/
But then again: https://abc13.com/post/houston-store-owner-shoots-robbery-suspect-posed- police-video-shows/16857433/
There are travesties and victories under many dissimilar situations. One never knows on any given morning.
That's extremely simplistic "yeah but" thinking. It's pretending both outcomes are equally probable. They are not.
Over the past months, I've linked to several studies whose data
demonstrate that a person is _more_ likely to get shot if he has a gun available.
I submit it is likely that far more people have guns in their homes
who don't get shot than those who do. That means that there is a
correlation between the number of people having guns in their home and
people not getting shot.
According to the twisted logic being presented, that suggests that not
having a gun in your home makes you less likely to get shot.
It's good that you admit you don't know. But that means you've ignored
the multiple research papers I've cited and linked here.
I suspect you have enough competence at math to understand the well-documented correlation between guns in the household and household members being shot - usually by others in the home. The correlation is
strong enough that it should be beyond doubt.
True, not _every_ gun shoots _every_ household member. But using that
fact to try disproving the correlation is absolutely senseless.
I fid it strange that my family kept guns in the house for generations
with no problems and we weren't unique as I'd say that most the
families in my town did as well, and my knowledge comes from being
there and seeing it.
And now we have a chap who's experience, from his own posts, consist
of shooting a .22 a couple of times, and is telling all the details of
size, shape and caliber, we need to defend our home.
I guess e must be one of them "professor" people that run about
professing to know what they are talking about.
On 7/8/2025 4:18 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 10:20:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/8/2025 6:27 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 04:32:47 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 19:59:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/7/2025 1:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Yes that's true. And worse:
https://ksltv.com/crime-public-safety/family-mourn-protester-killed-no-
kings-shooting/786412/
But then again:
https://abc13.com/post/houston-store-owner-shoots-robbery-suspect-posed-
police-video-shows/16857433/
There are travesties and victories under many dissimilar situations. One
never knows on any given morning.
That's extremely simplistic "yeah but" thinking. It's pretending both >>>>> outcomes are equally probable. They are not.
Over the past months, I've linked to several studies whose data
demonstrate that a person is _more_ likely to get shot if he has a gun >>>>> available.
I submit it is likely that far more people have guns in their homes
who don't get shot than those who do. That means that there is a
correlation between the number of people having guns in their home and >>>> people not getting shot.
According to the twisted logic being presented, that suggests that not >>>> having a gun in your home makes you less likely to get shot.
I don't know about more or less ...
It's good that you admit you don't know. But that means you've ignored
the multiple research papers I've cited and linked here.
I suspect you have enough competence at math to understand the
well-documented correlation between guns in the household and household
members being shot - usually by others in the home. The correlation is
strong enough that it should be beyond doubt.
True, not _every_ gun shoots _every_ household member. But using that
fact to try disproving the correlation is absolutely senseless.
The correlation doesn't address any other factors.
The papers I cited most certainly did. Apparently you didn't bother to
read them.
Willful ignorance! Such bliss, eh?
Hate's too strong a word. I don't think you're very smart, and I do
think you're very timid - afraid of not only bike path boogeymen, but
even normal human contact and conversation. I think you're a sucker for
right wing propaganda, and I think you revel in willful ignorance. I
think there's a lot of psychological compensation going on, probably to
deal with current physical failings after a life of few accomplishments.
I also think your obsession with me is really weird, as demonstrated by
your fast response to almost anything I post. I think it's another
example of compensation, making up for your fear of conversing face to
face with people in real life.
As Roger said, "It's not a good look."
My opinions are based on a _lot_ more than his fearful need to always
have a gun at hand. He's posted here for years, giving plenty of
evidence of his character.
On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 22:34:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
BTW, I wonder what guns John uses for home defense? Based on his posts, >it's almost certainly not an AR-style rifle. He defends them rabidly,
but apparently has never owned one, and perhaps never shot one.
In the past, the crickets have been his only response to such questions.
From what I've read, most guns in Thailand are black market.
There are a large number of law firms specialized in bribing the
government to obtain permits for foreigners, so it's probably quite an expensive process.
But dun no, search engines are so biased these days I don't
believe anything Glugle, Bing or Yahoo tells me anymore...
At a guess, he owns an illegal weapon.
Mine are all illegal. Although I bought and registered them
legally, we ere required by FHC to hand them in to "update the
licenses". I didn't. I suppose that makes me a criminal...
Though if I'm caught it'll probably be a just a fine for the out-of-date registration. Maybe confiscation, depends on the judge.
Lula is personally pro-gun for self defense. He has not
revoked any of the crazy laws Bolsonaro passed, it fact he made it a
little cheaper for working class to register weapons.
Right. I was repeating what Andrew Muzi said about home defense. How odd
that John didn't leap into the fray back then and scold Andrew.
BTW, I wonder what guns John uses for home defense? Based on his posts,
it's almost certainly not an AR-style rifle. He defends them rabidly,
but apparently has never owned one, and perhaps never shot one.
In the past, the crickets have been his only response to such questions.
Indeed... The circumstances of the gun posession and of the shootings
are important factors that should be considered. Those studies, as
are most studies, are designed and run to influence people toward the opinions and agenda of the people who fund them.
Gee, dumbass, if you had read the studies you might have seen what
factors were accounted for.
Hmmmm. I don't know, let's see what there is.
A cane defense on a bike path a week ago: https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/story/news/crime/2025/07/09/attack-of-woman-on-b-line-trail-stopped-by-cane-wielding-passerby/84509329007/
Successful defense without weapon a month ago: https://abc13.com/post/woman-escapes-attempted-sex-assault-cypress-creek-hike-bike-trail-bridgewater-drive-deputies-say/16634882/
Another earlier this year: https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/sex-offender-gets-22-years-to-life-in-attempted-springfield-bike-path-rape/LBG5WLO455HXBM5X7NLSCT4RJA/
And in Dayton OH: https://www.wdtn.com/as-seen-on-2-news/clark-county-bike-path-assault-attempted-rape-conviction/
Ditto Springfield OH: https://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/registered-sex-offender-from-springfield-convicted-in-attempted-bike-path-rape/CJFNDKSQXZFGVNM27BAVQOWU34/
Didn't find and firearm defense on bicycle paths this year.
In my opinion, being a local news from all over reader and
from voluminous conversations with cyclists nationwide,
attempted bike theft or robbery on bike paths is poorly
reported and almost never charged unless there's significant
injury or death. Attempted rape, likely yes but attempted
bike theft, likely not.
Much of your bluster and fume is about you trying to compensate for
your failure to make it as a working engineer, and live up to the
adage "those that can do, those that can't, teach."
You brag about your education and your PE license, but you can't brag
about any problem solving or designing or anything that you've created because that's well beyond your ability.
As Roger said, "It's not a good look."
<chuckle> ...and you keep telling me how important having a "good
luck" is to you.
Or any other year, it seems. Mr. Tricycle found another case of a woman
who fought off a man without using a gun. So several attempted rapes - certainly traumatic and serious events - but all successfully thwarted without a gun. Those seem pretty weak arguments for needing a gun. I
know one woman who used to carry a tiny pepper spray device - but she
gave up carrying even that after years of never needing it.
Is Mr. Tricycle afraid of being raped? Is that a realistic fear?
Stranger rape, makes news but it?s people you know, and is far more ubiquitous than people particularly men imagine.
..and here's Krygowski posting about me again. I'll bet he dreams
about me.....
On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 11:56:28 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Given all the homeless camps I see in the woods
Vote better.
no, news reports. And no, I'm not going to do your homework for you,
asshole. Many links have been posted here, and the information is easily searchable. look it up yourself.
They're called "schools".
The US is one of the few countries where you send your
children to school and hope to see them again.
PS
//
Between the late 1960s and early 1980s, at least ten major and many
smaller inquiries were held into neglectful, abusive and violent
practices in a number of psychiatric and 'mental handicap' hospitals.
Many of these institutions, or certain wards inside them, had become professionally isolated and severely under-resourced.
//
Under resourced? Yes, that'll do it. Public health, although
it costs 1/10 of private medicine, is not and never will be free.
I worked in a mental Institution in Brazil. Not a 5 star
hotel, but there was no abuse. 3 healthy meals, clean linen and
hospital clothes and an option to do gardening or "manual therapy".
OTOH, we had powerful anti-psychotics to subdue the most
violent.
I wonder how they coped when they did not exist.
[]'s
which were widely publicized. We're still
living in the over reaction from those.
We agree. Especially on the failed program of government
schools.
On 7/12/2025 8:08 AM, asshole wrote:
My experience in Wisconsin was similar. I'm much younger
but in my area most men had rifles and we boys pilfered
rounds, separated them, and did things such as floating a
model boat with propellant and a candle in the stream to
watch it flare and sink. And of course melted the lead.
We were not supposed to touch firearms, and certainly never
load one, and AFAIK no one ever did. The only pistols I saw
as a boy were police/sheriff revolvers. I never saw one out
of its holster.
and....wait for it....just as participating in a forum with willfully ignorant assholes increases the likelyhood of one of them posting a
willfully ignorant opinion.
That's been the point all along, you idiot - having a gun in the home
increases the chance of someone in the home getting shot with it.
It's you two dumbasses that keep denying that correlation, for two reasons:
1 - Frank was the one that posted the original study - in your two
pea-brains that means by default it's wrong
2 - you don't want it to be true, therefore it can't be. Newsflash,
dumbass - facts don't care about your opinion.
Liberals do stand up for each other. They even supported a liberal
politician who babbled incoherent nonsense and couldn't find his way
off the stage.
In article <303i5kt1q17542l0ndl75g7ote5gf1o9fq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Liberals do stand up for each other. They even supported a liberal >politician who babbled incoherent nonsense and couldn't find his way
off the stage.
Didn't they kick him out?
On 6/23/2025 5:56 AM, John B. wrote:
And don't forget all the freeies the U.S. hands out to their
inhabitants ;-)
I corrected John's typos or misspellings.
But "all the freebies"? Compared to other countries like Canada? France? Denmark? Etc?
For just one comparative example: John has posted over and over about
the tiny cost of medical care in Thailand where he lives vs. the large medical costs in the U.S. American medical costs overwhelm whatever
other U.S. freebies he may be envisioning.
Perhaps he should list those freebies along with the parallel policies
of other developed nations.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/5/2025 8:13 PM, cyclintom wrote:
You were being completely serious when you posted that you had to get
ready to ride through west Youngstown.
Sure, as I've explained. Remember, I used to commute to work by bike. Getting ready meant strapping my briefcase on the bike's rear rack, clipping on an eyeglass mirror (optional but handy in traffic), putting
on an appropriate jacket, and using a safety pin to tighten my right
pants cuff so it stayed away from the chain.
Tom, you probably do more to prepare for your recreational rides. I'll
bet you change into a riding costume. I commuted in ordinary business casual clothes.
Depends on the distance I found for 3 ish miles then as long as one?s trousers where?s flappy just jump on and go.
Since my commute is now 10/12 miles route dependant do need a ?riding costume? normal trousers get eaten away, Lycra shorts make sense and more comfortable than cotton pants, which will get grim.
I have discovered that MTB trousers and ?technical? t shirts can reduce the amount of clothes I need to bring ie only need underwear and maybe a t
shirt.
On 6/5/2025 1:33 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 11:52:02 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
I think it has more to do with him grasping at anything that he _thinks_ >> elevates his esteem in the eyes of others....it isn't working.
Sure, dummy, that's why I piss people off... to elevate my esteem.
Hey, someone should save _that_ statement! It's evidence of a seriously disfunctional personality.
FWIW, I do think his statement is honest, whether he knows it or not But
what a desperate way to try to feel better about oneself!
On 6/5/2025 1:33 PM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 11:52:02 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I think it has more to do with him grasping at anything that he _thinks_ >>> elevates his esteem in the eyes of others....it isn't working.
Sure, dummy, that's why I piss people off... to elevate my esteem.
Dumbass, you aren't pissing anyone off. Your wilfull ignornance and
attemtps at insults are mildly entertaining.
On 6/6/2025 2:30 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 13:52:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2025 10:22 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
Dumbass, you aren't pissing anyone off. Your wilfull ignornance and
attemtps at insults are mildly entertaining.
I do get a chuckle out of most of them, while shaking my head!
I suppose I should try to be more charitable...
Krygowski has a hbiit of running away with his tail between his legs whenever I mention his make believe friends, his bragging and his narcissism. On the other haand, I have no trouble responding to his insults.
Hell, you have an overpowering compulsion to respond to almost anything
I say here, not to mention enough of a fixation to store my statements
for future reference. You're clearly obsessed.
In article <303i5kt1q17542l0ndl75g7ote5gf1o9fq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Liberals do stand up for each other. They even supported a liberal >politician who babbled incoherent nonsense and couldn't find his way
off the stage.
Didn't they kick him out?
Krygowski doesn't like having his embarrasing brags reposted...
"I've had other cycling instructors compliment my riding, and say they learned and improved by watching me. "
Frank Krygowski https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/s8lalfYV130/m/Kq1L-KPHxmcJ
On 6/6/2025 10:22 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/5/2025 1:33 PM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 11:52:02 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I think it has more to do with him grasping at anything that he
_thinks_
elevates his esteem in the eyes of others....it isn't working.
Sure, dummy, that's why I piss people off... to elevate my esteem.
Dumbass, you aren't pissing anyone off. Your wilfull ignornance and attemtps at insults are mildly entertaining.
I do get a chuckle out of most of them, while shaking my head!
I suppose I should try to be more charitable...
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:46:12 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 19:58:42 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us> wrote:
In article <303i5kt1q17542l0ndl75g7ote5gf1o9fq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Liberals do stand up for each other. They even supported a liberal >>>politician who babbled incoherent nonsense and couldn't find his way >>>off the stage.
Didn't they kick him out?
The Democrat hierarchy forced him out after the party nominated him
for a second term. Some leftist voters still think I should have
stayed in and that he could have won. Most everyone agrees nowdays
that they screwed up by offering the two women against Trump. One was
an alcoholic, they other one was pretending to be a man.
Her excellency Kamala doesn't drink
<https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lead-stories/>
<https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2024/09/fact-check-video-does-not-show-kamala-harris-drunk-its-altered-video.html>
So I presume she's the one you mistake for a man. I find her
quite attractive.
Who's the drunk? Trump's wife? Sure she's an immigrant and
possibly a whore (I think they call them "models" or "professional companions" now) but even magatards are becoming more open-minded
about that. I don't think Democrats planned that....
What is it with right wingers and whores? All of Bolsonaro's
wives were whores, hired by congress to entertain the men while they
were away from home. Weird, huh?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 19:58:42 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us> wrote:
In article <303i5kt1q17542l0ndl75g7ote5gf1o9fq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Liberals do stand up for each other. They even supported a liberal >>politician who babbled incoherent nonsense and couldn't find his way
off the stage.
Didn't they kick him out?
The Democrat hierarchy forced him out after the party nominated him
for a second term. Some leftist voters still think I should have
stayed in and that he could have won. Most everyone agrees nowdays
that they screwed up by offering the two women against Trump. One was
an alcoholic, they other one was pretending to be a man.
On 6/24/2025 1:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 11:51 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 09:07:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 09:41:03 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>> wrote:
The issue is the abject hypocrisy of the right wing claiming to be
championing for "family values" while being just as slutty and
debauched
(if not more so) than any democrat they try to claim is unfit for
office.
Agreed. In my never humble opinion, it's impossible to find
candidates who are squeaky clean, honest, and can win an election.
Such requirements are mutually exclusive. Most cannot pass a simple >>> background check. Those who survive their term look burned out.
Little wonder they engage in extracurricular activities to relieve the >>> stress. If you dig deep enough, ALL the candidates and office holders >>> have done things that are best kept hidden. It's also impossible to >>> get elected to a high office without stepping on the bodies of the
losers.
UNless a politician is actually breaking the law, I couldn't care less
about their private lives.... and no, Trump was not breaking the law.
The ridiculous notion that he should have recorded the hush money as a
campaign expense is beyond the pale.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
NDAs are common, amazingly voluminous, routine and of long standing. Nothing illegal about it.
And the payments to Mr Cohen, the attorney who drafted the NDA, were
marked as legal expense for internal bookkeeping. No crime there either.
So starting with a perfectly legal document and a series of payments, Ms James charged 34 counts (one for each check).
Appeals are yet in progress. Stay tuned.
criminal or not is not the issue.
"The issue is the abject hypocrisy of the right wing claiming to be championing for "family values" while being just as slutty and debauched
(if not more so) than any democrat they try to claim is unfit for office. "
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 09:41:03 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The issue is the abject hypocrisy of the right wing claiming to be >championing for "family values" while being just as slutty and debauched >(if not more so) than any democrat they try to claim is unfit for office.
Agreed. In my never humble opinion, it's impossible to find
candidates who are squeaky clean, honest, and can win an election.
Such requirements are mutually exclusive. Most cannot pass a simple background check. Those who survive their term look burned out.
Little wonder they engage in extracurricular activities to relieve the stress. If you dig deep enough, ALL the candidates and office holders
have done things that are best kept hidden. It's also impossible to
get elected to a high office without stepping on the bodies of the
losers.
On 6/24/2025 1:51 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 1:55 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 11:51 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 09:07:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 09:41:03 -0400, Zen Cycle
<funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The issue is the abject hypocrisy of the right wing
claiming to be
championing for "family values" while being just as
slutty and debauched
(if not more so) than any democrat they try to claim is
unfit for office.
Agreed. In my never humble opinion, it's impossible to
find
candidates who are squeaky clean, honest, and can win an
election.
Such requirements are mutually exclusive. Most cannot
pass a simple
background check. Those who survive their term look
burned out.
Little wonder they engage in extracurricular activities
to relieve the
stress. If you dig deep enough, ALL the candidates and
office holders
have done things that are best kept hidden. It's also
impossible to
get elected to a high office without stepping on the
bodies of the
losers.
UNless a politician is actually breaking the law, I
couldn't care less
about their private lives.... and no, Trump was not
breaking the law.
The ridiculous notion that he should have recorded the
hush money as a
campaign expense is beyond the pale.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
NDAs are common, amazingly voluminous, routine and of long
standing. Nothing illegal about it.
And the payments to Mr Cohen, the attorney who drafted the
NDA, were marked as legal expense for internal
bookkeeping. No crime there either.
So starting with a perfectly legal document and a series
of payments, Ms James charged 34 counts (one for each check).
Appeals are yet in progress. Stay tuned.
criminal or not is not the issue.
"The issue is the abject hypocrisy of the right wing
claiming to be
championing for "family values" while being just as slutty
and debauched
(if not more so) than any democrat they try to claim is
unfit for office. "
We agree on that (I'm not a 'family values' proponent,
whatever that means).
Neither party has a lock on honesty or morality or even
effectiveness. Usually, not even a passing familiarity.
By the way, the best pithy political hypocrisy ever was from
the idiot right (yes, we have them too) demonstrating for
"government hands off my social security". What could be
more inane?
In article <roij5kprtkrnmfgqfhb62hh577vcfk1in6@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
Some leftist voters still think I should have stayed in and that he
could have won.
I'll go with "some", over the earlier implication of "all".
Zero of the Democrats I spoke with wanted Biden to run in the first
place. And certainly after his horrific debate showing, they were like,
"Get that guy TF out of there yesterday."
I'm sure there were some, though, who thought that Biden was best.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 15:52:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 20:43:59 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 18:20:02 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:16:43 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 11:54 AM, Shadow wrote:
I suspect a large part is because our version of culture - if you can
As Frank pointed out, people go where it's best for their
futures(and their children's futures). Still haven't figured out why >> >>> they choose the US, though.
dignify it with that term - is broadcast so prevalently. People see our >> >>movies and TV shows that glamorize the country, and those function as
advertisements for living in the U.S.
Yesterday I asked a Peruvian friend what brought her to the U.S. She
said it was a family vacation to Disney World when she was young; she
thought the entire country was like Orlando. The photos of her home town >> >>in Peru looked pretty bleak.
FWIW, I'd never want to live in Orlando.
Another of Krygowski's imaginary friends?
I believe he has or had a lot of real friends. He has a
friendly, genuine attitude, is better informed than most Americans and
seems to care about others. What is the term? Empathy.
Had maybe. Most of my friends died from COVID or old age. My
school reunion and my Med-School reunion were both cancelled this
year. Not enough left.
Maybe he lost his. It's very hard to make real friends when
you are old.
There's always Usenet, though it's riddled with psychos...
still better than social media.
('m s8ure that he has friends, but don't you find it curious that they all were just disgussing these matters? No, like everything else from Frank, he invents conversations that magically believe his left wing nutty professor positions.
Most EU countries and Canada are much further to the left than
even your democratic party (which in itself is not left wing, it's center-right).
Don't you find it strange that citizens of those countries
have a MUCH higher standard of living than most Americans? They are
happier, they are healthier, live longer, they worry less about
security and on average, they have a much better education.
Has it ever occurred to you that you might be the "nutty" one?
And of course, no where in that is there any allegation of widespread
fraud.
Sorry andrew, this 'dismissed on procedural grounds' trope you keep supporting doesn't hold any merit whatsoever. If there was a case -
_any_ case - where there was enough evidence that any fraud had an
effect on the election, all that would have needed to be done was
present the evidence in the proper venue by people with the proper
standing. The fact that the magatards couldn't muster that after so much allegation of widespread fraud is in and of itself some evidence the
claims were false.
"To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election," - Bob Barr, December 1, 2020.
In article <1055lgt$3308$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 7/15/2025 4:52 AM, zen cycle wrote:
From the sublime to the ridiculous. This today: [former sheriff
candidate registers cats to vote]
And the dude was busted and did not get elected and the cats were not
allowed to vote. So that's not a good example of successful voter fraud.
In 'murican english, 'nutty' is a somewhat silly and endearing characteristic. Will Farrel is nutty.
The floriduh dumbass is an asshole....big difference
The KTWB link mentions:
"In another Trump lawsuit, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled
against the campaign on Tuesday and said Philadelphia officials acted >reasonably in keeping Trump observers behind barricades and 15 feet
(4.5 m) from counting tables."
which seems to have been initiated by Republicans and not by
"Pennsylvania election workers".
Personally, I don't think anyone could perform ballot or documentation >observation at a distance of 15ft without a periscope and/or
binoculars.
Yes, I agree..
Violent crime be from rape to gun crime, the public idea is its stranger danger, walking home at night or home invasions, but these are fairly rare.
It?s people you know well family or close friends.
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue Jul 8 09:17:01 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2025 19:59:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 7/7/2025 1:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Yes that's true. And worse:
https://ksltv.com/crime-public-safety/family-mourn-protester-killed-no- >>>>> kings-shooting/786412/
But then again:
https://abc13.com/post/houston-store-owner-shoots-robbery-suspect-posed-
police-video-shows/16857433/
There are travesties and victories under many dissimilar situations. One
never knows on any given morning.
That's extremely simplistic "yeah but" thinking. It's pretending both >>>> outcomes are equally probable. They are not.
Over the past months, I've linked to several studies whose data
demonstrate that a person is _more_ likely to get shot if he has a gun >>>> available.
I submit it is likely that far more people have guns in their homes
who don't get shot than those who do. That means that there is a
correlation between the number of people having guns in their home and >>> people not getting shot.
According to the twisted logic being presented, that suggests that not >>> having a gun in your home makes you less likely to get shot.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
It?s not twisted logic, it?s just opportunity, the gun is there, there is >> an argument or so on. If the gun isn?t there arguments still happen but
less likely to have lethal outcomes.
There is no gun in the home and there is an argument and one is killed
with a kitchen knife. Explain the difference?
Guns are many magnitudes easier to kill people, you absolutely can kill and seriously harm someone with a knife but does take more effort, and
certainly for mass killing such events by a knife, relatively few are
killed.
Last year in Southport someone attacked a children?s yoga dance class 26
kids plus some adults in the building, only 3 where killed, multiple where injured but survived.
Remarkably he survived as well, as he was arrested before the armed
response arrived.
It's good that you admit you don't know. But that means you've ignored
the multiple research papers I've cited and linked here.
I suspect you have enough competence at math to understand the well-documented correlation between guns in the household and household members being shot - usually by others in the home. The correlation is
strong enough that it should be beyond doubt.
True, not _every_ gun shoots _every_ household member. But using that
fact to try disproving the correlation is absolutely senseless.
On Sun, 13 Jul 2025 19:21:18 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>someomne else. The private busimesses I started could have made me much wealthier than I presently am but I liked being an engineer and the everyday challenges it provided. Those three are scared shitless of challenges. Krygowski fled to the safety of
wrote:
Krygowski, Liebermann and Flunky are all the great losers in the game of free enterprise. All of this endless nosing into what is none of their business shows the endless fears that all losers unfortuenately have and an small minority have to blame on
I need only remind you that Roger said that he would prefer Liebermann as a navigator than me even though I worked 8 years repairing navigational equipment and have a degree in commercial navigation. That is certainly not a good look for poor Roger.
Particularly when Liebermann doesn't even know WHY there are latittitude and Longitude lines on a navigational chart.
You mentioned my name 4 times. You must be desperate for attention.
However, quantity is a poor substitute for quality. Maybe try writing something that is worth reading.
Incidentally, you started posting 22 messages between 10:05AM and
12:59PM. I don't trust myself yet to do that math, but that seems
like a fairly high number of worthless messages per hour. At 2:12PM,
you continued to the message bombardment with 3 more messages. I'm
sure there will be more. Do you really think all that pollution will
improve your image, make up for your lies, fix your fault math or
otherwise do damage control to your reputation?
have a degree in commercial navigation.
There isn't any such thing as a 'degree in commercial navigation'. It's possible to have a degree in "marine transportation"
https://www.maritime.edu/undergraduate-programs/marine-transportation
But at least at the MAss Maritime academy that requires 200 days
actually sailing on a commercial vessel.
That is certainly not a good look for poor Roger.
even less so for you.
On 7/18/2025 5:49 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <105egub$2a3uk$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
Observers are citizens who volunteer to observe. They do not handle the
actual ballots.
If they don't handle the ballots, how do they detect spoiled ones?
I'm just trying to imagine the process. An election worker takes a stack
of ballots and drops them in a counting machine, and the observer is
doing what at what distance?
Don't get me wrong--I'm for anything that increases election accuracy.
But let's get it set up *now* and not wait until the election and have a giant mess. I think it would save us a lot of trouble to have Republican observers (or whatever) in there; or better still, Republican poll
workers.
Vote tabulation machines are supposed to reject ballots with
multiple selections for one office. There's judgement
involved, for example a filled in circle with a bold X
through it next to another filled in circle. Or a stray pen
line across a circle next to a filled in circle.
For mail-ins, Statutes usually require specific data on the
envelope and on the ballot itself. That's either there or
not, legible or not, dated within Statute or not which can
also involve judgement. Some have intent which is quite
clear to a human, others not at all.
On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 19:58:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
My DIRECT observation of an entire busload of illegals brought in who couldn't even speak English and were all bearing a slip of paper with the name of people who had died or moved out of the polling region doesn't even phase you. I must be lying.
You're lying. We went through this a few weeks ago. I found some inconsistencies with your story. Want links to my postings so you can
ignore them later?
Judicial Watch has sued using recent Supreme Court rulings and had 5 MILLION dead Democrat voter removed from the polls.
No they haven't. I just searched for such an event, which if true,
would be all over the media. I found nothing. How about some
corroboration of your claims instead of unsubstantiated lies and fabrications?
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