Anyone who commits a crime and is arrested by local police is fingerprinted. If they are illegal aliens they are either turned over to ICE or if the crime is prosecuted they are turned over to justice system. Minor crimes are probably not prosecuted bylocal authorities which are now completelly overwhelmed by crimes major and minor.
If the crime is not of such seriousness, they are still referred to to USCIS. USCIS has access to the world's criminal databases ID'd by fingerprints. Anyone might be prosecuted for crimes that do not effect their citizenship nor their valiue or futurevalue as an American citizens (say prosecution for drunken driving ONCE which is a felony.) But repeat offenders are turned over to ICE. Do you wish to be killed by a drunken driver even if they are illegally here?
Also, more amd more, companies that hire illegal aliens are making policies to fingerprint all workers equally and getting any records from USCIS (Freedom of Information Act) Do you want a many times prosecuted thief or drug mover working on a loadingdock?
ICE is NOT raiding companies blindly (How would they tell the citizens from the illegals?) They are raiding companies specifically for illlegals with long criminal histories both here and their native countries.have a huge cadery of left wing judges that will find an American citizen guilty of jaywalking while illegals being prosecuted for major crimes turned loose on the slightest technicality.
Unfortunately, under the Democrats, justice is not blind but so entirely biased that murderers of foreign extraction are not only released but as we've recently seen snuck out by and through judges chambers. While extremes like that are rare, we now
Let us remember WHO the victims of these things are - our children being murdered by the thousands every year by drugs. Or murdered for arguing with someone that is an MS-13 memberr.US from Texas border area.
Garcia who claimed he was not a member of MS-13 was not returned because of a mistake identifying him, but because he had open charges awaiting arrainment here in the US. He had something like 32 charges of transporting other MS-13 members around the
ICE has a very difficult job not making any mistakes in deporting dangerous illegals and many of them have been killed in the line of duty. So-called protests fueled by the Soros foundation who is attempting to destroy the US financial system forpersonal profit (As they did Greece) underscores just how ignorant mostly Liberaol women are. Gallons of tears shed before CNN and NBC cameras shows how closely allied the Democrats are with Liberalism destroying the entire fabric of being liberal.
Garcia who claimed he was not a member of MS-13 was not returned
because of a mistake identifying him, but because he had open charges awaiting arrainment here in the US. He had something like 32 charges
of transporting other MS-13 members around the US from Texas border
area.
In article <7Ff5Q.1062078$%uk3.987139@fx10.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Garcia who claimed he was not a member of MS-13 was not returned
because of a mistake identifying him, but because he had open charges
awaiting arrainment here in the US. He had something like 32 charges
of transporting other MS-13 members around the US from Texas border
area.
Weird that the most efficient way of getting him to court was to get him
into custody, deport him to the one country that it was illegal to
deport him to, lie that it was impossible to get him back, then, despite that, bring him back anyway to face trial.
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
In article <7Ff5Q.1062078$%uk3.987139@fx10.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Garcia who claimed he was not a member of MS-13 was not returned
because of a mistake identifying him, but because he had open charges awaiting arrainment here in the US. He had something like 32 charges
of transporting other MS-13 members around the US from Texas border
area.
Weird that the most efficient way of getting him to court was to get him
into custody, deport him to the one country that it was illegal to
deport him to, lie that it was impossible to get him back, then, despite that, bring him back anyway to face trial.
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
On 6/20/2025 12:38 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <7Ff5Q.1062078$%uk3.987139@fx10.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Garcia who claimed he was not a member of MS-13 was not returned
because of a mistake identifying him, but because he had open charges
awaiting arrainment here in the US. He had something like 32 charges
of transporting other MS-13 members around the US from Texas border
area.
Weird that the most efficient way of getting him to court was to get him into custody, deport him to the one country that it was illegal to
deport him to, lie that it was impossible to get him back, then, despite that, bring him back anyway to face trial.
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe take the easy way next time.
It's a necessarily messy business with many distasteful
aspects, dealing with illegal entries of all sorts.
Congress writing statutes specifying "shall be removed" is
one thing. Enforcement is another.
Peruse the numbers here for example: https://washingtonmonthly.com/2025/06/13/why-obamas-immigration-enforcement-policy-was-better-than-trumps/
"Bill Clinton deported 12.3 million, George W. Bush 10.3
million, and Barack Obama 5.3 million in their eight-year
administrations. Joe Biden racked up 4 million. Trump?s
first term? 1.9 million, and another 207,000 so far this year. "
There are criticisms to be made (including mine) but that
piece manages to laud Obama for a large number of hearings
while criticizing the present administration for holding
people awaiting hearings. Make of that what you will.
As with any large set of humans, there will be errors, as
with citizens mistakenly jailed for having the same name as
a waned person, or citizens wrongly convicted. It will
happen, despite anyone's best efforts.
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
Do you wish to be killed by a drunken driver even if they are illegally here?
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
On 6/20/2025 12:38 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <7Ff5Q.1062078$%uk3.987139@fx10.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Garcia who claimed he was not a member of MS-13 was not returned
because of a mistake identifying him, but because he had open charges
awaiting arrainment here in the US. He had something like 32 charges
of transporting other MS-13 members around the US from Texas border
area.
Weird that the most efficient way of getting him to court was to get him
into custody, deport him to the one country that it was illegal to
deport him to, lie that it was impossible to get him back, then, despite
that, bring him back anyway to face trial.
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
It's a necessarily messy business with many distasteful aspects, dealing
with illegal entries of all sorts.
Congress writing statutes specifying "shall be removed" is one thing. Enforcement is another.
Peruse the numbers here for example: https://washingtonmonthly.com/2025/06/13/why-obamas-immigration- enforcement-policy-was-better-than-trumps/
"Bill Clinton deported 12.3 million, George W. Bush 10.3 million, and
Barack Obama 5.3 million in their eight-year administrations. Joe Biden racked up 4 million. Trump’s first term? 1.9 million, and another
207,000 so far this year. "
There are criticisms to be made (including mine) but that piece manages
to laud Obama for a large number of hearings while criticizing the
present administration for holding people awaiting hearings. Make of
that what you will.
As with any large set of humans, there will be errors, as with citizens mistakenly jailed for having the same name as a waned person, or
citizens wrongly convicted. It will happen, despite anyone's best efforts.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:05:23 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Do you wish to be killed by a drunken driver even if they are illegally here?
I don't want to be killed by ANY drunken driver. Immigrant or
not, I don't think that will make much difference in my injuries.
Hey, you were taken to court for drunken driving. What did the
judge sentence you to ? Spotting UFOs ? You must have mentioned the
doG-given gift you have of spotting aliens a galaxy away...
[]'s
PS The rest of your post was about "how criminals are
arrested". Very few undocumented immigrants are criminals, so I
deleted it as off-topic to the subject.
Obama earned the nickname "Deporter-In-Chief" from the ACLU in 2014
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/deporter-chief
The issue isn't making the mistake, it's owning up to it, learning from
it, and taking steps to prevent it in the future.
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 19:04:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and
fingerprints of felons.
I believe felonies exist only in the US. They certainly don't
exist in South America and most of Europe.
Why would the UN be required to keep records of something that
does not exist?
PS check your sources.
[]'s
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
On Fri Jun 20 19:04:39 2025 cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
I should add that the UN presently composes 200 nations and to gain entry they must all guarantee strict adherence to UN legal standards. This goes so far as to even record the identity of "person's of interest" when no laws broken can be proven.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 19:04:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and >>> fingerprints of felons.
I believe felonies exist only in the US. They certainly don't
exist in South America and most of Europe.
Why would the UN be required to keep records of something that
does not exist?
PS check your sources.
[]'s
If one was being charitable perhaps hed confused Interpol ><https://www.interpol.int/en> where data is shared though Id assume would >need a reason to put someone on the database, Liam whos stolen some low >value stuff isnt likely to cross that bar!
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >>>> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if possible.
In article <0ccb5kd5tat0tb9ckidjpqkv7mvjm0tl6s@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if possible.
I don't. It's the civic duty of all Americans--it's enshrined in our Constitution.
On 6/20/2025 4:10 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <0ccb5kd5tat0tb9ckidjpqkv7mvjm0tl6s@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if possible.
I don't. It's the civic duty of all Americans--it's enshrined in our
Constitution.
+1
I've always showed up. And was dismissed each time.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >>>>> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
[]'s
On 6/20/2025 4:10 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <0ccb5kd5tat0tb9ckidjpqkv7mvjm0tl6s@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if possible.
I don't. It's the civic duty of all Americans--it's enshrined in our
Constitution.
+1
I've always showed up. And was dismissed each time.
I've always showed up. And was dismissed each time.
In article <1034j9l$8jua$6@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:10 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
I've always showed up. And was dismissed each time.
Weirdly, I've only served once and never been dismissed. Every other
time they said they didn't need jurors to show up that day. :shrug: I
always kinda hope that I get a chance to do it--my employer doesn't pay
for jury duty days, but that's all right as long as it's not too long.
But I'm aware that for some people even a single day without pay would
be too much, and I'd hope that the court would excuse them. I'd support jurors getting minimum wage, at least. It's a poor choice to have to
make between civic duty and food.
A friend of mine was in the pool for the Unabomber trial but didn't get selected. That would have been something else.
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. >>>>>>> Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in
court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches'
usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say
you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but
would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose
your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will
seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong
decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher
education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid
jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy
being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck
someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill
when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a
"illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if
that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can
afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-
totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really
can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
next dozen or more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
On 6/20/2025 2:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
In the real world, not so much.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
In article <HXh5Q.234390$VIE2.160641@fx33.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
When was the last time you served on a jury?
It was 21 years ago. I follow the summons every time, but was never
needed since. I never try to get out of it except for the rare
postponement due to schedule conflicts.
On 6/20/2025 3:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote, for some reason:
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury....
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
I was called for jury duty three or four times. Every time except the
last one, I explained that jury duty would interfere with my teaching
and class schedule. I was immediately absolved.
The final time, I was retired and in the jury pool, in a room of maybe
30 other prospective jurors. At the last minute the judge (with whom
I've been on local committees) announced that the perp accepted a plea deal.
So I have no direct experience; but I too have heard that lawyers prefer those on juries to be, um, less than brilliant.
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >>>> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
On Fri Jun 20 19:04:39 2025 cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
I should add that the UN presently composes 200 nations
and to gain entry they must all guarantee strict adherence to UN legal standards.
This goes so far as to even record the identity of "person's of interest" when no laws broken can be proven.
How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or
more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or
more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
In article <0ccb5kd5tat0tb9ckidjpqkv7mvjm0tl6s@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if possible.
I don't. It's the civic duty of all Americans--it's enshrined in our Constitution.
On 6/20/2025 8:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 6:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in
court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches'
usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say
you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but
would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose
your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will
seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong
decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher
education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid
jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy
being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck
someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill
when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as
a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if
not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if
that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can
afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-
totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you
really can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
next dozen or more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
Nice story, and it's true because we do have more
obligations than anyone else, but it's not singularly why
we're broke.
We grew up in a healthy economy and a Federal budget of
50% Defense. Defense is now about 12~14%, see 3d chart here:
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-does-the-us-spend-
on-the-military/
Or as a portion of GNP, now GDP:
https://econofact.org/u-s-defense-spending-in-historical-
and- international-context
Actual defense budget over time shows dramatic growth*,
but not so much inflation adjusted, or in comparison to
the total economy, nor in comparison to transfer programs.
You can advocate one way or the other, and nearly everyone
does, but comparison to other countries is rife with
apples-oranges error.
* One driver is repeatedly expanded veterans' medical
benefits, which no one want to cut and few want to slow
those expansions.
Another is the Pentagon's open admission, over many years,
that they misplace. steal, lose or otherwise piss away
about half of their very large budget. Less than other
Departments, but still a lot of money.
That sounds like a lot of "yeah but..."
It's likely that other countries have similar factors at
play, yet still spend far, far less than we do.
Oh, except one factor most other countries lack is a heavy
burden of veteran medical benefits. Somehow all those other
nations have far more efficient medical systems covering
everyone, so veterans are not a special expense.
On Fri Jun 20 15:37:11 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
In the real world, not so much.
So the UN doesn't actually pay countries to keep records?
On 6/20/2025 8:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 6:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy
moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages >>>>>>> to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care >>>>>>> much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date >>>>>>> one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if >>>>>>> it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are >>>>>>> self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education >>>>>>> serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if >>>>>>> possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a >>>>>>> jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal" >>>>>>> human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes >>>>> against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non- totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
Nice story, and it's true because we do have more obligations than
anyone else, but it's not singularly why we're broke.
We grew up in a healthy economy and a Federal budget of 50% Defense.
Defense is now about 12~14%, see 3d chart here:
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-the-military/
Or as a portion of GNP, now GDP:
https://econofact.org/u-s-defense-spending-in-historical-and-
international-context
Actual defense budget over time shows dramatic growth*, but not so much
inflation adjusted, or in comparison to the total economy, nor in
comparison to transfer programs.
You can advocate one way or the other, and nearly everyone does, but
comparison to other countries is rife with apples-oranges error.
* One driver is repeatedly expanded veterans' medical benefits, which no
one want to cut and few want to slow those expansions.
Another is the Pentagon's open admission, over many years, that they
misplace. steal, lose or otherwise piss away about half of their very
large budget. Less than other Departments, but still a lot of money.
That sounds like a lot of "yeah but..."
It's likely that other countries have similar factors at play, yet still spend far, far less than we do.
Oh, except one factor most other countries lack is a heavy burden of
veteran medical benefits. Somehow all those other nations have far more efficient medical systems covering everyone, so veterans are not a
special expense.
On 6/21/2025 2:27 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 19:20:30 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or
more countries combined?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
We're broke because you Democrats needed to destroy America to please your own George Soros. That hasn't worked and now you're in d4eep shit with misstatement after misstatement.
Franki, we only spend 13% of our budget on defense and the largest line item is social security. Please try to know something before trying to tell us all about it.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/
Somehow, many other nations - and most prosperous nations - seem able to >spend more per capita on their versions of Social Security. ><https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/07/19/social-security-global-charts/>
Probably in part because they spend less on their military.
On 6/20/2025 2:58 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Frank will ask for a reference.
Nah, we know your source. We don't know if it's a result of alcohol,
brain damage or what.
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 8:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 6:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or >>>> more countries combined?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy >>>>>>>>>> moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages >>>>>>>> to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care >>>>>>>> much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date >>>>>>>> one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if >>>>>>>> it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are >>>>>>>> self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education >>>>>>>> serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if >>>>>>>> possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a >>>>>>>> jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's >>>>>>>> convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal" >>>>>>>> human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes >>>>>> against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non- totalitarian >>>>>> cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't >>>>>> afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
Nice story, and it's true because we do have more obligations than
anyone else, but it's not singularly why we're broke.
We grew up in a healthy economy and a Federal budget of 50% Defense.
Defense is now about 12~14%, see 3d chart here:
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-the-military/ >>>
Or as a portion of GNP, now GDP:
https://econofact.org/u-s-defense-spending-in-historical-and-
international-context
Actual defense budget over time shows dramatic growth*, but not so much
inflation adjusted, or in comparison to the total economy, nor in
comparison to transfer programs.
You can advocate one way or the other, and nearly everyone does, but
comparison to other countries is rife with apples-oranges error.
* One driver is repeatedly expanded veterans' medical benefits, which no >>> one want to cut and few want to slow those expansions.
Another is the Pentagon's open admission, over many years, that they
misplace. steal, lose or otherwise piss away about half of their very
large budget. Less than other Departments, but still a lot of money.
That sounds like a lot of "yeah but..."
It's likely that other countries have similar factors at play, yet still
spend far, far less than we do.
Oh, except one factor most other countries lack is a heavy burden of
veteran medical benefits. Somehow all those other nations have far more
efficient medical systems covering everyone, so veterans are not a
special expense.
US does for developed countries spend more of a % of its GDP on military
for various reasons ie political mainly, just for defence would be somewhat lower, after all US has 11 Aircraft carriers which is overkill.
Roger Merriman
On 6/20/2025 3:28 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 16:02:51 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 16:05:23 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Do you wish to be killed by a drunken driver even if they are illegally here?
I don't want to be killed by ANY drunken driver. Immigrant or
not, I don't think that will make much difference in my injuries.
Hey, you were taken to court for drunken driving. What did the
judge sentence you to ? Spotting UFOs ? You must have mentioned the
doG-given gift you have of spotting aliens a galaxy away...
[]'s
PS The rest of your post was about "how criminals are
arrested". Very few undocumented immigrants are criminals, so I
deleted it as off-topic to the subject.
The CATO institute purposely lies about how common illegals are involved in drunk driving incidents.
What on earth would be the Cato Institute's motivation for that? It's
not a liberal organization.
On 20 Jun 2025 20:27:51 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 19:04:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and >>> fingerprints of felons.
I believe felonies exist only in the US. They certainly don't
exist in South America and most of Europe.
Why would the UN be required to keep records of something that
does not exist?
PS check your sources.
[]'s
If one was being charitable perhaps he?d confused Interpol ><https://www.interpol.int/en> where data is shared though I?d assume would >need a reason to put someone on the database, Liam who?s stolen some low >value stuff isn?t likely to cross that bar!
In Brazil taking a piss within 100 yards of a school is not a
crime, as long as you go about it discretely. In the US it's a felony.
In Brazil two 16 year olds having sex is not a crime. In the
US it's a felony.
I wonder how Tom's "UN" manages to deal with so many
discrepancies.
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
I have no doubt that the legal system in Russia is rather dark
On Fri Jun 20 15:37:11 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:04 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 11:34:34 2025 AMuzi wrote:
Not all countries routinely fingerprint, not all keep
records, not all report such to USA or to international
bodies. Besides all of that, what's to keep Hernan Diaz the
murderer from becoming Jose Valdez the supplicant when there
are no papers, no records, no positive ID?
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and fingerprints of felons. Since the UN supplies lots of money and aid, member states follow their rules willingly.
In the real world, not so much.
So the UN doesn't actually pay countries to keep records?
On Fri Jun 20 21:08:11 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <HXh5Q.234390$VIE2.160641@fx33.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
When was the last time you served on a jury?
It was 21 years ago. I follow the summons every time, but was never
needed since. I never try to get out of it except for the rare
postponement due to schedule conflicts.
Well, if you watch what haopopens in the jury room you discover that there are VERY few liberals on juries.
They may have thought of themselves as such before hearing the evidence but the many times I;ve been on juries I've watched the defending attorney cut a deal to avoid guilty verdicts. They closely observe the jury and when it appears that they are nothappy, they advise their client so.
On Fri Jun 20 16:31:38 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >> >> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
It isn't surprising that you do not believe in civic duty. That must come from having an IQ higher than a cockroache but lower than is acceptable for acceptamce into any military service.
On Fri Jun 20 18:14:15 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >> >>>> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
Do you have a political party that has tried to swing the balance of power by importing 21 million illegal aliens?
On Fri Jun 20 18:56:59 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2025 3:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote, for some reason:
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury....
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
I was called for jury duty three or four times. Every time except the
last one, I explained that jury duty would interfere with my teaching
and class schedule. I was immediately absolved.
The final time, I was retired and in the jury pool, in a room of maybe
30 other prospective jurors. At the last minute the judge (with whom
I've been on local committees) announced that the perp accepted a plea deal. >>
So I have no direct experience; but I too have heard that lawyers prefer
those on juries to be, um, less than brilliant.
Frank loves to act superior when he couldn't even work at the job he was trained for. Frank, you do not have a high IQ.
That's why you were hired, you could read textbooks written by people who knew whatr they were talking about.
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly.
Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
And that's reached crisis levels, not that either party want's to clip
their own gravy train. It's a real problem, with real risks of real
pain (c.f. Argentina, Zimbabwe, etc) but they just can't keep their
hands out of the till...
See also discussion here in the early days of Mr Musk's noble efforts.
I
predicted that any proposed spending cuts would founder on the rocks of various Congressmen's interests (majority Republican at this time but it doesn't matter) and promptly sink just like Peter Grace's through and specific report in 1984. It has indeed.
But, broke or not, the US is not unique in describing deportable aliens
in its criminal statutes.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:19:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 16:31:38 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >>>>> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
It isn't surprising that you do not believe in civic duty. That must come from having an IQ higher than a cockroache but lower than is acceptable for acceptamce into any military service.
Trump, Bush, etc.
Give me a synopsis of their military services.
I understand Bush was a specialist in cocaine deployment, and
Trump in bone spur warfare. They both served at home. LOL.
PS I doubt you ever defended your country if you served in the military. Very, very few soldiers after WW2 did.
[]'s
On 6/21/2025 3:37 PM, cyclintom wrote:
There is, in fact, almost nothing that you actually care about until
your Democrat friends kill Youngstown University and cut off your
pension.
Sigh. Tom, bombs could obliterate my university yet I would still get my pension. That's not where the money comes from.
But I do care about other things! Here, I (occasionally) care about
refuting your nonsense - even though I let most of it go without
comment. There's just too much to deal with.
On Fri Jun 20 18:08:01 2025 Shadow wrote:
On 20 Jun 2025 20:27:51 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 19:04:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and >>>>> fingerprints of felons.
I believe felonies exist only in the US. They certainly don't
exist in South America and most of Europe.
Why would the UN be required to keep records of something that
does not exist?
PS check your sources.
[]'s
If one was being charitable perhaps he?d confused Interpol
<https://www.interpol.int/en> where data is shared though I?d assume would >>> need a reason to put someone on the database, Liam who?s stolen some low >>> value stuff isn?t likely to cross that bar!
In Brazil taking a piss within 100 yards of a school is not a
crime, as long as you go about it discretely. In the US it's a felony.
In Brazil two 16 year olds having sex is not a crime. In the
US it's a felony.
I wonder how Tom's "UN" manages to deal with so many
discrepancies.
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in
court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches'
usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say
you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but
would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose
your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will
seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong
decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher
education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid
jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy
being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck
someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill
when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a
"illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if
that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can
afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-
totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really
can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
And that's reached crisis levels, not that either party
want's to clip their own gravy train. It's a real
problem, with real risks of real pain (c.f. Argentina,
Zimbabwe, etc) but they just can't keep their hands out of
the till...
See also discussion here in the early days of Mr Musk's
noble efforts.
You're becoming a master of sarcasm, Andrew....
I predicted that any proposed spending cuts would founder
on the rocks of various Congressmen's interests (majority
Republican at this time but it doesn't matter) and
promptly sink just like Peter Grace's through and specific
report in 1984. It has indeed.
But, broke or not, the US is not unique in describing
deportable aliens in its criminal statutes.
On 6/22/2025 8:44 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy
moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages >>>>>> to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care >>>>>> much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date >>>>>> one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if >>>>>> it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are >>>>>> self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if >>>>>> possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal" >>>>>> human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non- totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
And that's reached crisis levels, not that either party want's to
clip their own gravy train. It's a real problem, with real risks of
real pain (c.f. Argentina, Zimbabwe, etc) but they just can't keep
their hands out of the till...
See also discussion here in the early days of Mr Musk's noble efforts.
You're becoming a master of sarcasm, Andrew....
I predicted that any proposed spending cuts would founder on the
rocks of various Congressmen's interests (majority Republican at this
time but it doesn't matter) and promptly sink just like Peter Grace's
through and specific report in 1984. It has indeed.
But, broke or not, the US is not unique in describing deportable
aliens in its criminal statutes.
He did make an effort.
And almost no one thinks there's any lack of
inefficiency, misappropriation and theft to target.
Perhaps again in another generation or two. We can hope.
On 6/22/2025 8:44 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in
court. Holy moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches'
usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say
you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but
would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose
your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will
seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong
decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher
education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid
jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy
being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck
someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill
when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a
"illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if
that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can
afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non-
totalitarian
cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really
can't
afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
And that's reached crisis levels, not that either party
want's to clip their own gravy train. It's a real
problem, with real risks of real pain (c.f. Argentina,
Zimbabwe, etc) but they just can't keep their hands out of
the till...
See also discussion here in the early days of Mr Musk's
noble efforts.
You're becoming a master of sarcasm, Andrew....
I predicted that any proposed spending cuts would founder
on the rocks of various Congressmen's interests (majority
Republican at this time but it doesn't matter) and
promptly sink just like Peter Grace's through and specific
report in 1984. It has indeed.
But, broke or not, the US is not unique in describing
deportable aliens in its criminal statutes.
He did make an effort. And almost no one thinks there's any
lack of inefficiency, misappropriation and theft to target.
Perhaps again in another generation or two. We can hope.
I have also turned down many serious job offers since I am financially secure
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 8:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 6:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or >>> more countries combined?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy >>>>>>>>> moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care >>>>>>> much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date >>>>>>> one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are >>>>>>> self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education >>>>>>> serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a >>>>>>> jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's >>>>>>> convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes
against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those
little quirks which are practically universal in non- totalitarian >>>>> cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't >>>>> afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
Nice story, and it's true because we do have more obligations than
anyone else, but it's not singularly why we're broke.
We grew up in a healthy economy and a Federal budget of 50% Defense.
Defense is now about 12~14%, see 3d chart here:
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-the-military/ >>
Or as a portion of GNP, now GDP:
https://econofact.org/u-s-defense-spending-in-historical-and-
international-context
Actual defense budget over time shows dramatic growth*, but not so much
inflation adjusted, or in comparison to the total economy, nor in
comparison to transfer programs.
You can advocate one way or the other, and nearly everyone does, but
comparison to other countries is rife with apples-oranges error.
* One driver is repeatedly expanded veterans' medical benefits, which no >> one want to cut and few want to slow those expansions.
Another is the Pentagon's open admission, over many years, that they
misplace. steal, lose or otherwise piss away about half of their very
large budget. Less than other Departments, but still a lot of money.
That sounds like a lot of "yeah but..."
It's likely that other countries have similar factors at play, yet still spend far, far less than we do.
Oh, except one factor most other countries lack is a heavy burden of veteran medical benefits. Somehow all those other nations have far more efficient medical systems covering everyone, so veterans are not a
special expense.
US does for developed countries spend more of a % of its GDP on military
for various reasons ie political mainly, just for defence would be somewhat lower, after all US has 11 Aircraft carriers which is overkill.
Because they depend on the USA's military.
On Fri Jun 20 18:08:01 2025 Shadow wrote:
On 20 Jun 2025 20:27:51 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 19:04:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You are right BUT all members of the UN are required to keep records and >> >>> fingerprints of felons.
I believe felonies exist only in the US. They certainly don't
exist in South America and most of Europe.
Why would the UN be required to keep records of something that
does not exist?
PS check your sources.
[]'s
If one was being charitable perhaps he?d confused Interpol
<https://www.interpol.int/en> where data is shared though I?d assume would >> >need a reason to put someone on the database, Liam who?s stolen some low
value stuff isn?t likely to cross that bar!
In Brazil taking a piss within 100 yards of a school is not a
crime, as long as you go about it discretely. In the US it's a felony.
In Brazil two 16 year olds having sex is not a crime. In the
US it's a felony.
I wonder how Tom's "UN" manages to deal with so many
discrepancies.
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
On 6/22/2025 10:26 AM, AMuzi wrote:
He did make an effort.
No, he made a claim. In reality it was a ruse to get into NASA, the FAA,
the FCC, and the white house in order to secure contracts with SpaceX
and Starlink. The end result of his chainsaw performance was to create
chaos and even more inefficiency, and any claims of actual savings were
both grossly exaggerated and will be more expensive to clean up.
And almost no one thinks there's any lack of
inefficiency, misappropriation and theft to target.
That's true.
Perhaps again in another generation or two. We can hope.
Springs Eternal.
On Sat Jun 21 15:12:43 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
Because they depend on the USA's military.
One very serious problem is that most of the world's freight is moved by a very limited number of container ships so large that it takes high tides and special operations even to turn them around in the port of Oakland. Freight can easily be cut offsimply by sinking 20 ships . In WW II we were building a ship a day to keep up with those being sunk.
Trump, Bush, etc.
Give me a synopsis of their military services.
I understand Bush was a specialist in cocaine deployment, and
Trump in bone spur warfare. They both served at home. LOL.
PS I doubt you ever defended your country if you served in the military. Very, very few soldiers after WW2 did.
[]'s
On 6/22/2025 6:25 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:19:33 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 16:31:38 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy moly. Maybe >>>>> take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care
much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date
one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or
worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are
self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education
serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a
jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for
good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's
convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
It isn't surprising that you do not believe in civic duty. That must come from having an IQ higher than a cockroache but lower than is acceptable for acceptamce into any military service.
Trump, Bush, etc.
Give me a synopsis of their military services.
I understand Bush was a specialist in cocaine deployment, and
Trump in bone spur warfare. They both served at home. LOL.
Bush did actually wear a uniform, but that 'fortunate son' avoid combat
by his senator daddy getting him a cushy appointment in the air national guard.
Trump managed to avoid the draft by his daddy getting a doctor to swear
he had bone spurs.
(and yes, we know all about Bill Clinton managing to avoid the draft
through an educational deferment)
PS I doubt you ever defended your country if you served in the military. Very, very few soldiers after WW2 did.
Tommy carried tools for a mechanic while being stationed on a Guam for a
few years - not exactly a war zone.....
Lawyers tend to chose the most stupid jurors they can. Stupidhappy, they advise their client so.
people are easier to convince. As you pointed out, they prefer right
wingers. It's not a coincidence.
They may have thought of themselves as such before hearing the evidence but the many times I;ve been on juries I've watched the defending attorney cut a deal to avoid guilty verdicts. They closely observe the jury and when it appears that they are not
That's how defense lawyers work. Have done so for hundreds of
years ...
Flunky, why don't you know about the actual benefits that Musk has actually broeght to the world
The tears coming from your eyes because I know FAR more than you without paying for a college is embarassing all of us.
On Sun Jun 22 07:25:52 2025 Shadow wrote:
Trump, Bush, etc.
Give me a synopsis of their military services.
I understand Bush was a specialist in cocaine deployment, and
Trump in bone spur warfare. They both served at home. LOL.
PS I doubt you ever defended your country if you served in the
military. Very, very few soldiers after WW2 did.
[]'s
Bomne spurs is a medical problem which you as a claimed doctor should know.
You can't fake it and the Army cannot use anyone with them.
Perhaps you should give us a reference about Bush and Cocaine
when Obama was the one with an addiction problem and still does.
On Sun Jun 22 07:21:46 2025 Shadow wrote:not happy, they advise their client so.
Lawyers tend to chose the most stupid jurors they can. Stupid
people are easier to convince. As you pointed out, they prefer right
wingers. It's not a coincidence.
They may have thought of themselves as such before hearing the evidence but the many times I;ve been on juries I've watched the defending attorney cut a deal to avoid guilty verdicts. They closely observe the jury and when it appears that they are
That's how defense lawyers work. Have done so for hundreds of
years ...
When was the last time you were in a US courtroom during jury selection?
Simply lying in print to hide your own ignorance of everything isn't very admirable.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
Gee, the Military services and not just the Air Force called Guam a war zone.
The tears coming from your eyes because I know FAR more than you without paying for a college is embarassing all of us.
On 6/22/2025 10:38 AM, cyclintom wrote:simply by sinking 20 ships . In WW II we were building a ship a day to keep up with those being sunk.
On Sat Jun 21 15:12:43 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
Because they depend on the USA's military.
One very serious problem is that most of the world's freight is moved by a very limited number of container ships so large that it takes high tides and special operations even to turn them around in the port of Oakland. Freight can easily be cut off
Uh no. >https://www.atlas-mag.net/en/category/tags/focus/the-world-merchant-fleet
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Tesla cars are so far ahead of the competition that effectively there IS no competition. The latest electric motors in them run at 15% higher speeds making power to weight and effeciency much higher than the competition.
You might give details on efficiency, since it can be measured by
various criteria. For an EV, one practical metric is in miles per kW-hr.
According to this source ><https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/most-efficient-electric-cars/>
Tesla is not the top. In fact, it's tied with my Kia Niro! Wow, am I proud!
He is now building batterries for his cars that no longer use rare earths ...
AFAIK, no EV batteries use rare earth metals. Those metals go into
things like magnets, not batteries.
and do not catch fire so you can recharge them inside your garage.
Tesla may be working on batteries that are less likely to catch fire,
but that's already an insignificant problem. See ><https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires> or
many other sources.
From
<https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/electric-car-fire-statistics.html> >"In 2023, Swedens Authority for Social Protection and Preparedness
(MSB) reported just 24 EV car fires in 2022, representing just 0.004% of
the countrys 611,000 EVs. For cars running on gasoline or diesel fuel,
the fire rate was 0.08%." IOW, liquid fuel cars were 20 times riskier.
Oh, and I've always charged my EV in my garage. My antique motorcycle is
a much bigger fire risk, and I don't worry about it.
He is selling cars for $12,000 new without a lot of bells and whistles on them.
Wow. Source? Everyone else seems to think Teslas start at about $40,000. ><https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-much-do-teslas-electric-vehicles-cost>
Not only is he using reusable launche vehicles but he can LAND them which NASA never even thought possible.
Maybe it's no surprise, but I have two friends who were NASA engineers.
There was a third but she died several years ago. (Two of the three were >cyclists, BTW - that's how we met.) Anyway, one was literally a "rocket >scientist" and still does some consulting for NASA and a bit for SpaceX.
He's the one who said NASA did examine re-landing rockets back in the
day but decided there was no way it could be done quickly and in a way
that was economically feasible. And it may still not be economically >feasible. How many rockets has SpaceX wasted in its trial and error >development of re-landing?
Keep in mind that computing and computer control have advanced
tremendously in recent years. we now have cars that at least partially
self drive (mine keeps to lane center automatically), parallel park >themselves, and more. Don't blame NASA for not suddenly inventing 2025 >computer technology decades ago.
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
On 6/21/2025 2:09 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 8:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 6:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or >>>>> more countries combined?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy >>>>>>>>>>> moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages >>>>>>>>> to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care >>>>>>>>> much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date >>>>>>>>> one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if >>>>>>>>> it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>>>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are >>>>>>>>> self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education >>>>>>>>> serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if >>>>>>>>> possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a >>>>>>>>> jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>>>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's >>>>>>>>> convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal" >>>>>>>>> human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes >>>>>>> against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those >>>>>>> little quirks which are practically universal in non- totalitarian >>>>>>> cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't >>>>>>> afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
Nice story, and it's true because we do have more obligations than
anyone else, but it's not singularly why we're broke.
We grew up in a healthy economy and a Federal budget of 50% Defense.
Defense is now about 12~14%, see 3d chart here:
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-the-military/ >>>>
Or as a portion of GNP, now GDP:
https://econofact.org/u-s-defense-spending-in-historical-and-
international-context
Actual defense budget over time shows dramatic growth*, but not so much >>>> inflation adjusted, or in comparison to the total economy, nor in
comparison to transfer programs.
You can advocate one way or the other, and nearly everyone does, but
comparison to other countries is rife with apples-oranges error.
* One driver is repeatedly expanded veterans' medical benefits, which no >>>> one want to cut and few want to slow those expansions.
Another is the Pentagon's open admission, over many years, that they
misplace. steal, lose or otherwise piss away about half of their very
large budget. Less than other Departments, but still a lot of money.
That sounds like a lot of "yeah but..."
It's likely that other countries have similar factors at play, yet still >>> spend far, far less than we do.
Oh, except one factor most other countries lack is a heavy burden of
veteran medical benefits. Somehow all those other nations have far more
efficient medical systems covering everyone, so veterans are not a
special expense.
US does for developed countries spend more of a % of its GDP on military
for various reasons ie political mainly, just for defence would be somewhat >> lower, after all US has 11 Aircraft carriers which is overkill.
Roger Merriman
It's not overkill at all. In fact US Navy is dangerously low
of ships and of personnel. (more seriously in transport than
in combat hulls).
We have obligations and threats which UK does not, what with
your single smallish carrier.
That said, our Navy keeps scoring own goals with my money
which is a decades-long series of disappointments:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14525529/Why-supposedly-state-art-American-warship-built-Italians-risks-humiliating-US-Navy.html
We also promised two Virginia class hulls to Australia which
we are not actually able to build. Stay tuned.
the way I read the 6th Amendment you are not required to stand jury
duty. The 6th Amendment guarantees the defendent the right to a speedy
trial with a jury of his peers. It does not require citizens to stand
jury duty.
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/21/2025 2:09 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/20/2025 8:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 6:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:That sounds like a lot of "yeah but..."
On 6/20/2025 5:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/20/2025 4:14 PM, Shadow wrote:How is it, then, that we spend more on military than the next dozen or >>>>>> more countries combined?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 15:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 6/20/2025 2:31 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 18:41:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri Jun 20 17:38:58 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
But at least he's going to finally get a day in court. Holy >>>>>>>>>>>> moly. Maybe
take the easy way next time.
MAGAtards? I doubt it.
When was the last time you served on a jury?
Anyone with an IQ higher than a cockroaches' usually manages
to get off a jury. If the suspect is Latino just say you don't care >>>>>>>>>> much for Latinos, but don't actually hate them but would NEVER date >>>>>>>>>> one. His lawyer will reject you.
It's a PITA. You don't get paid, might even lose your job if
it takes a long time, and sometimes the family will seek revenge, or >>>>>>>>>> worse, friends might think you took the wrong decision.. If you are >>>>>>>>>> self employed, those days are lost.
You will very rarely see someone with a higher education >>>>>>>>>> serving in a jury here in Brazil.
As to "Beej Jorgensen" I suspect he would avoid jury duty if
possible.
[]'s
Of course, there are the sociopaths that enjoy being on a >>>>>>>>>> jury. They get off on the power they get to wreck someone's life for >>>>>>>>>> good. The more innocent he is, the bigger the thrill when he's >>>>>>>>>> convicted.
PS changed the subject. There is no such thing as a "illegal"
human being. Look it up in the bibel.
I'll take your word on scripture but illegal aliens are
deportable under USA and Brasil statutes, like most if not
all countries.
In Brazil they have a trial. And they can appeal if that goes >>>>>>>> against them. But then we're a rich country, we can afford those >>>>>>>> little quirks which are practically universal in non- totalitarian >>>>>>>> cultures.
I hear the US is suddenly bankrupt. Maybe you really can't >>>>>>>> afford it.
[]'s
[sigh] This country's been broke since before I was born.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures>
Oh hey, maybe _that's_ why we're "broke."
Nice story, and it's true because we do have more obligations than
anyone else, but it's not singularly why we're broke.
We grew up in a healthy economy and a Federal budget of 50% Defense. >>>>> Defense is now about 12~14%, see 3d chart here:
https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-the-military/ >>>>>
Or as a portion of GNP, now GDP:
https://econofact.org/u-s-defense-spending-in-historical-and-
international-context
Actual defense budget over time shows dramatic growth*, but not so much >>>>> inflation adjusted, or in comparison to the total economy, nor in
comparison to transfer programs.
You can advocate one way or the other, and nearly everyone does, but >>>>> comparison to other countries is rife with apples-oranges error.
* One driver is repeatedly expanded veterans' medical benefits, which no >>>>> one want to cut and few want to slow those expansions.
Another is the Pentagon's open admission, over many years, that they >>>>> misplace. steal, lose or otherwise piss away about half of their very >>>>> large budget. Less than other Departments, but still a lot of money. >>>>
It's likely that other countries have similar factors at play, yet still >>>> spend far, far less than we do.
Oh, except one factor most other countries lack is a heavy burden of
veteran medical benefits. Somehow all those other nations have far more >>>> efficient medical systems covering everyone, so veterans are not a
special expense.
US does for developed countries spend more of a % of its GDP on military >>> for various reasons ie political mainly, just for defence would be somewhat >>> lower, after all US has 11 Aircraft carriers which is overkill.
Roger Merriman
It's not overkill at all. In fact US Navy is dangerously low
of ships and of personnel. (more seriously in transport than
in combat hulls).
We have obligations and threats which UK does not, what with
your single smallish carrier.
is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized ones!
That said, our Navy keeps scoring own goals with my money
which is a decades-long series of disappointments:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14525529/Why-supposedly-state-art-American-warship-built-Italians-risks-humiliating-US-Navy.html
We also promised two Virginia class hulls to Australia which
we are not actually able to build. Stay tuned.
Roger Merriman
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large
part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large
part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large
part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:55:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
--
cheers,
John B.
On 6/23/2025 8:10 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:55:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly >>>>> bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
--
cheers,
John B.
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 8:10 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:55:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly >>>>>> bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
--
cheers,
John B.
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
--
cheers,
John B.
On 6/23/2025 5:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:...
Dig a well....
Not easy!
BTW, this house was the first built on this street back in 1943, part of
a large plot of land that was since subdivided into at least six large
lots, and it still has nine acres of woods adjacent, with just two
houses in those woods.
This house has a well right outside the front door, with two pipe stubs >protruding through the basement well; but it was attached to "city
water" long before we bought the house. I'm told that some houses in
this neighborhood still use well water.
In the 1980s one friend tried to convince me to resurrect the well to
save money, but I couldn't be bothered. I don't think we ever exceeded
$50 per month.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:55:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 5:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:...
Dig a well....
Not easy!
BTW, this house was the first built on this street back in 1943, part of
a large plot of land that was since subdivided into at least six large
lots, and it still has nine acres of woods adjacent, with just two
houses in those woods.
This house has a well right outside the front door, with two pipe stubs
protruding through the basement well; but it was attached to "city
water" long before we bought the house. I'm told that some houses in
this neighborhood still use well water.
In the 1980s one friend tried to convince me to resurrect the well to
save money, but I couldn't be bothered. I don't think we ever exceeded
$50 per month.
I've had well water in four of my homes. The last one was drilled
while I watched. I miss the taste of well water.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:55:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost
entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
--
cheers,
John B.
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
lol...sure, because the democrats are the ones trying to dismantle the
US education system......HAH!!!
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
<https://www.ice.gov/remove/statistics>
ICE preferes "removals" over "deportations".
I'm having a difficult time with the bureucratic terms. I did manage
to find this:
"ICE conducts removal flights May 17 (2023)" <https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-conducts-removal-flights-may-17>
"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted multiple
removal flights today, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Israel, as part of dozens of flights conducted each week."
Notice that Israel is included in the removal (deportation) countries.
<https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnualReportFY2022.pdf>
In the tables starting on Page 69, it shows that:
FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022
52 22 18
Israeli citizens were removed (deported).
Whether they were Jews, Arabs or others is unknown.
On 6/23/2025 10:02 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:55:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 5:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:...
Dig a well....
Not easy!
BTW, this house was the first built on this street back in 1943, part of >>> a large plot of land that was since subdivided into at least six large
lots, and it still has nine acres of woods adjacent, with just two
houses in those woods.
This house has a well right outside the front door, with two pipe stubs
protruding through the basement well; but it was attached to "city
water" long before we bought the house. I'm told that some houses in
this neighborhood still use well water.
In the 1980s one friend tried to convince me to resurrect the well to
save money, but I couldn't be bothered. I don't think we ever exceeded
$50 per month.
I've had well water in four of my homes. The last one was drilled
while I watched. I miss the taste of well water.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Huge local variance in that. Down in Manatee County, south
of you, I hated the smell of sulphurous well water. And I've
had very good tasting well water elsewhere.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
Target? I don't think so:
"U.S. Jews? political views (2020)" <https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-political-views/> "Pew Research Center surveys, including the 2020 study, show that Jews
are among the most consistently liberal and Democratic groups in the
U.S. population. Seven-in-ten Jewish adults identify with or lean
toward the Democratic Party, and half describe their political views
as liberal."
Do you need an AI interpretation?
On Sun Jun 22 09:08:17 2025 AMuzi wrote:
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
Well then, the winners this time are the Israelis anjd the Iranian people only 10% of whom are Muslim but were forced to live under Muslim laws.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:09:30 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I have no doubt that the legal system in Russia is rather dark
No doubt. Trump's buddy Putin has a secret police too. In
Russia the secret police have very little training and are also hired
based on their political leanings. Most are thugs, just like in the
US.
Most ICE agents were in construction and urban cleaning
(rubbish collectors)before they were hired, trained very briefly and
allowed to go around wearing masks. They are all MAGA
supporters(political affiliation is what defines a police state).
So little training that the ICE agent that assaulted a Senator
had no idea he had committed a crime. Was he arrested? No - nobody
could recognize him in a mask. He was definitely Asian, his eyes were
quite visible. Might even have been an "undocumented immigrant".
LOL
No worries, if he is ever arrested, Trump will pardon him. And
make him a US citizen.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:18:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I have also turned down many serious job offers since I am financially secure
Not many people on social security looking for employment at
your age. Not many companies hiring in that age group, so you're safe.
Though if Trump does actually send all the foreigners away you
might get a slave-wage job picking parsnips.....
PS If you do, don't forget to take your birth certificate,
just in case.
In article <2XC5Q.1372247$6%s6.721360@fx12.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
the way I read the 6th Amendment you are not required to stand jury
duty. The 6th Amendment guarantees the defendent the right to a speedy >trial with a jury of his peers. It does not require citizens to stand
jury duty.
A fine state the 6th Amendment would be in if no peers showed up to be
the jury!
Butler v Perry calls out compulsory service of several types as being Constitutional, including military service and jury duty.
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:22:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Frank loves to act superior when he couldn't even work at the job he was trained for. Frank, you do not have a high IQ.
Higher than average, certainly.
That's why you were hired, you could read textbooks written by people who knew whatr they were talking about.
Textbooks are written by teachers.
They usually know what they're talking about.
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which
is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized ones!
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts: >><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large
part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020: >><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
Uh no. >https://www.atlas-mag.net/en/category/tags/focus/the-world-merchant-fleet
<https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-12.0/centery:25.0/zoom:4> Currently monitoring 299,534 vessels
<https://www.vesselfinder.com>
For showing only Cargo Vessels:
Vessel filter -> Vessel Type
Uncheck all types except Cargo Vessels.
On 6/22/2025 10:38 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sat Jun 21 15:12:43 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
Because they depend on the USA's military.
simply by sinking 20 ships . In WW II we were building a ship a day to keep up with those being sunk.One very serious problem is that most of the world's freight is moved by a very limited number of container ships so large that it takes high tides and special operations even to turn them around in the port of Oakland. Freight can easily be cut off
Uh no.
https://www.atlas-mag.net/en/category/tags/focus/the-world-merchant-fleet
On Sun Jun 22 09:08:17 2025 AMuzi wrote:
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
Well then, the winners this time are the Israelis anjd the Iranian people only 10% of whom are Muslim but were forced to live under Muslim laws.
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Tesla cars are so far ahead of the competition that effectively there IS no competition. The latest electric motors in them run at 15% higher speeds making power to weight and effeciency much higher than the competition.
You might give details on efficiency, since it can be measured by
various criteria. For an EV, one practical metric is in miles per kW-hr.
According to this source <https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/most-efficient-electric-cars/>
Tesla is not the top. In fact, it's tied with my Kia Niro! Wow, am I proud!
He is now building batterries for his cars that no longer use rare earths ...
AFAIK, no EV batteries use rare earth metals. Those metals go into
things like magnets, not batteries.
and do not catch fire so you can recharge them inside your garage.
Tesla may be working on batteries that are less likely to catch fire,
but that's already an insignificant problem. See <https://www.motortrend.com/features/you-are-wrong-about-ev-fires> or
many other sources.
From <https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/electric-car-fire-statistics.html>
"In 2023, Sweden?s Authority for Social Protection and Preparedness
(MSB) reported just 24 EV car fires in 2022, representing just 0.004% of
the country?s 611,000 EVs. For cars running on gasoline or diesel fuel,
the fire rate was 0.08%." IOW, liquid fuel cars were 20 times riskier.
Oh, and I've always charged my EV in my garage. My antique motorcycle is
a much bigger fire risk, and I don't worry about it.
He is selling cars for $12,000 new without a lot of bells and whistles on them.
Wow. Source? Everyone else seems to think Teslas start at about $40,000. <https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-much-do-teslas-electric-vehicles-cost>
Not only is he using reusable launche vehicles but he can LAND them which NASA never even thought possible.
Maybe it's no surprise, but I have two friends who were NASA engineers.
There was a third but she died several years ago. (Two of the three were cyclists, BTW - that's how we met.) Anyway, one was literally a "rocket scientist" and still does some consulting for NASA and a bit for SpaceX.
He's the one who said NASA did examine re-landing rockets back in the
day but decided there was no way it could be done quickly and in a way
that was economically feasible. And it may still not be economically feasible. How many rockets has SpaceX wasted in its trial and error development of re-landing?
Keep in mind that computing and computer control have advanced
tremendously in recent years. we now have cars that at least partially
self drive (mine keeps to lane center automatically), parallel park themselves, and more. Don't blame NASA for not suddenly inventing 2025 computer technology decades ago.
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
On Sat Jun 21 20:00:35 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2025 3:37 PM, cyclintom wrote:
There is, in fact, almost nothing that you actually care about until your Democrat friends kill Youngstown University and cut off your pension.
Sigh. Tom, bombs could obliterate my university yet I would still get my
pension. That's not where the money comes from.
But I do care about other things! Here, I (occasionally) care about
refuting your nonsense - even though I let most of it go without
comment. There's just too much to deal with.
Frank, I always have to wonder why you don't even know about your own finances.
"Investment, insurance and annuity products are not FDIC insured, are not bank guaranteed, are not deposits, are not insured by any federal government agency, are not a condition to any banking service or activity, and may lose value."
On Sun Jun 22 11:23:45 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<https://www.ice.gov/remove/statistics>
ICE preferes "removals" over "deportations".
I'm having a difficult time with the bureucratic terms. I did manage
to find this:
"ICE conducts removal flights May 17 (2023)"
<https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-conducts-removal-flights-may-17>
"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted multiple
removal flights today, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and
Israel, as part of dozens of flights conducted each week."
Notice that Israel is included in the removal (deportation) countries.
<https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnualReportFY2022.pdf>
In the tables starting on Page 69, it shows that:
FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022
52 22 18
Israeli citizens were removed (deported).
Whether they were Jews, Arabs or others is unknown.
Jeff what is going on with you? ICE is deporting criminals. And it is between 800 and 1000 a day. Compare that with the 10,000 a day that entered FROM the start of the Obama administration to the end of the Biden administration.Mexico City, he bought a house there to stay in while taking care of his elderly father. His home was not broken into and he hasn't been held up on the street.
I have told you what my Mexican/Ameroican neighbor has said about what was actually happening but apparently this group wants to pretend that actual eye witnesses don't know anything. Because of the almost complete disappearance of major crime in
No one has assaultged his father or the caregivers.
Stop telling us about things you don't know about because Democratws want to portray Obama as the greatest President ever.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
On Sun Jun 22 23:41:03 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2XC5Q.1372247$6%s6.721360@fx12.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
the way I read the 6th Amendment you are not required to stand jury
duty. The 6th Amendment guarantees the defendent the right to a speedy
trial with a jury of his peers. It does not require citizens to stand
jury duty.
A fine state the 6th Amendment would be in if no peers showed up to be
the jury!
Butler v Perry calls out compulsory service of several types as being
Constitutional, including military service and jury duty.
Providing the jury of peers is a state responsibility.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:15:14 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
There's a risk of contamination.
"The Dangers of Drinking Spring Water and Raw Water" <https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water>
There are a few springs in the area. Two of these are at easily
accessible roadside locations where the general public can obtain
genuine spring water. When they were still functional, I used to see
cars full of large water containers, filling up at the springs. One
had a large concrete basin to make it easier. I used to grab about 3
gallons when it was convenient.
I don't recall what got into the water. Some people got sick. It was
traced to the roadside springs. The result was the two springs were eventually closed.
For a time, we had a variety of bugs in water just after the first
rains. The water would wash all the accumulated animal droppings from
the hillsides into the creeks. The local water district usually gets
most of its water from surface sources (river, creek, streams). When
there was a chance of grounwater contamination, they would switch to
well water.
During the CZU fire (2020): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
we were boiling water in some parts of the valley because of ground
water contamination (benzene) from the backflow into melted PVC pipes. <https://www.slvwd.com/water-quality/pages/long-term-voc-monitoring-post-czu-fire>
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on politicsyou should be more up-to-date
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized
ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:51:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts: >><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020: >><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly >>bill.
Dig a well....
I live in a forest, in the hills. Some towns have centralized sewage disposal plants, but most houses, including mine, use septic tanks and
leach field (or infiltrators).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank>
The problem is you really don't want to be pumping drinking water from anything near a septic tank. On my 1/4 acre lot, finding a safe
location for a water well is impossible. Minimum lot size for a well
and septic system was about 1 acre, but that probably has changed.
Also, water wells are registered, inspected and taxed. I don't know
the details or numbers because I don't know anyone near me that has a registered water well.
"Individual Water Systems - Santa Cruz County" <https://www.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/0/County/FireRecovery/pdfs/RPC/IndividualWaterSystems.pdf>
"Sustainable Groundwater Management Act" <https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sgma/reporting_and_fees.html>
On 6/23/2025 5:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:...
Dig a well....
Not easy!
BTW, this house was the first built on this street back in 1943, part of
a large plot of land that was since subdivided into at least six large
lots, and it still has nine acres of woods adjacent, with just two
houses in those woods.
This house has a well right outside the front door, with two pipe stubs protruding through the basement well; but it was attached to "city
water" long before we bought the house. I'm told that some houses in
this neighborhood still use well water.
In the 1980s one friend tried to convince me to resurrect the well to
save money, but I couldn't be bothered. I don't think we ever exceeded
$50 per month.
On Sat Jun 21 16:21:51 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
Target? I don't think so:
"U.S. Jews? political views (2020)"
<https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-political-views/> >> "Pew Research Center surveys, including the 2020 study, show that Jews
are among the most consistently liberal and Democratic groups in the
U.S. population. Seven-in-ten Jewish adults identify with or lean
toward the Democratic Party, and half describe their political views
as liberal."
Do you need an AI interpretation?
As usual, you see things always through the tinted lense of your own inventive beliefs
https://www.jns.org/americans-strongly-support-us-israel-ties-see-iran-proxies-as-direct-threat-poll/
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:09:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 10:02 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:55:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 5:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:...
Dig a well....
Not easy!
BTW, this house was the first built on this street back in 1943, part of >>> a large plot of land that was since subdivided into at least six large >>> lots, and it still has nine acres of woods adjacent, with just two
houses in those woods.
This house has a well right outside the front door, with two pipe stubs >>> protruding through the basement well; but it was attached to "city
water" long before we bought the house. I'm told that some houses in
this neighborhood still use well water.
In the 1980s one friend tried to convince me to resurrect the well to
save money, but I couldn't be bothered. I don't think we ever exceeded >>> $50 per month.
I've had well water in four of my homes. The last one was drilled
while I watched. I miss the taste of well water.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Huge local variance in that. Down in Manatee County, south
of you, I hated the smell of sulphurous well water. And I've
had very good tasting well water elsewhere.
I grew up on a farm in Illinois between Rockford and Beloit. The
windmill that pulled water from the old well had been replaced with a
new well and an electric pump for the house before I was born, but it
still drew water for the horse and cattle tanks. I really miss that
place. It's a Target Store today.
Last two homes were near Stoughton and then Mt Horeb. Both had wells
and good water. Maybe it was because of all Norwegian people living
around those locations.
I lived on the boat in Bradenton and couldn't drink city water. City
water in Tarpon and St Pete Beach was no better.
The city water here sucks and I can only drink it whan it's mixed with
my ice tea stuff or with my bike ride Nuun tablets.
On Sun Jun 22 11:03:15 2025 AMuzi wrote:simply by sinking 20 ships . In WW II we were building a ship a day to keep up with those being sunk.
On 6/22/2025 10:38 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sat Jun 21 15:12:43 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
Because they depend on the USA's military.
One very serious problem is that most of the world's freight is moved by a very limited number of container ships so large that it takes high tides and special operations even to turn them around in the port of Oakland. Freight can easily be cut off
Uh no.
https://www.atlas-mag.net/en/category/tags/focus/the-world-merchant-fleet
Andrew please read these thing before you post:
The US flag merchant ships are only 3.27% of the worlds fleet.
Where did you get the idea that President Trump and Putin where "buddies"?
On Sat Jun 21 16:21:51 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
Target? I don't think so:
"U.S. Jews? political views (2020)"
<https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-political-views/> >> "Pew Research Center surveys, including the 2020 study, show that Jews
are among the most consistently liberal and Democratic groups in the
U.S. population. Seven-in-ten Jewish adults identify with or lean
toward the Democratic Party, and half describe their political views
as liberal."
Do you need an AI interpretation?
As usual, you see things always through the tinted lense of your own inventive beliefs
https://www.jns.org/americans-strongly-support-us-israel-ties-see-iran-proxies-as-direct-threat-poll/
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:00:44 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Flunky, why don't you know about the actual benefits that Musk has actually broeght to the world
Hey, I don't know that one either!
Care to enlighten us?
With sources, of course.
On Sun Jun 22 11:23:45 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<https://www.ice.gov/remove/statistics>
ICE preferes "removals" over "deportations".
I'm having a difficult time with the bureucratic terms. I did manage
to find this:
"ICE conducts removal flights May 17 (2023)"
<https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-conducts-removal-flights-may-17>
"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted multiple
removal flights today, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and
Israel, as part of dozens of flights conducted each week."
Notice that Israel is included in the removal (deportation) countries.
<https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnualReportFY2022.pdf>
In the tables starting on Page 69, it shows that:
FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022
52 22 18
Israeli citizens were removed (deported).
Whether they were Jews, Arabs or others is unknown.
Jeff what is going on with you?
ICE is deporting criminals. And it is between 800 and 1000 a day. Compare that with the 10,000 a day that entered FROM the start of the Obama administration to the end of the Biden administration.
I have told you what my Mexican/Ameroican neighbor has said about what was actually happening but apparently this group wants to pretend that actual eye witnesses don't know anything. Because of the almost complete disappearance of major crime in MexicoCity, he bought a house there to stay in while taking care of his elderly father. His home was not broken into and he hasn't been held up on the street.
No one has assaultged his father or the caregivers.
Stop telling us about things you don't know about because Democratws want to portray Obama as the greatest President ever.
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 09:08:17 2025 AMuzi wrote:Yup Im sure the Iranians are spectacular happy to have their cities
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
Well then, the winners this time are the Israelis anjd the Iranian people
only 10% of whom are Muslim but were forced to live under Muslim laws.
bombed! Iran was absolutely more liberal before, though still not a free >government or country.
Nor is the idea that only 10% are Muslim though plenty are likely not to
want such a strict system. And the government is yes deeply unpopular as
far is possible to tell.
Bush did actually wear a uniform, but that 'fortunate son' avoid combat
by his senator daddy getting him a cushy appointment in the air national guard.
Trump managed to avoid the draft by his daddy getting a doctor to swear
he had bone spurs.
(and yes, we know all about Bill Clinton managing to avoid the draft
through an educational deferment)
On Sun Jun 22 12:28:40 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:18:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I have also turned down many serious job offers since I am financially secure
Not many people on social security looking for employment at
your age. Not many companies hiring in that age group, so you're safe.
Though if Trump does actually send all the foreigners away you
might get a slave-wage job picking parsnips.....
PS If you do, don't forget to take your birth certificate,
just in case.
I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:55:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:59:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:28:40 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 19:18:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I have also turned down many serious job offers since I am financially secure
Not many people on social security looking for employment at
your age. Not many companies hiring in that age group, so you're safe.
Though if Trump does actually send all the foreigners away you
might get a slave-wage job picking parsnips.....
PS If you do, don't forget to take your birth certificate,
just in case.
I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million.
Me too. Hope you didn't pay the US$10.000 they "need" to
examine your (practically empty) curriculum.
[]'s
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:10:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
The tears coming from your eyes because I know FAR more than you without paying for a college is embarassing all of us.
I have no idea what you know. However, I have found a considerable
number of things about which you are wrong, clueless or misinformed.
As for paying for college during the early 1960's, there was the GI
Bill to help pay for your college education. With your extensive
military training, you should have quallified. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Bill>
72% of Vietnam veterans used the G.I. Bill.
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 09:08:17 2025 AMuzi wrote:Yup I’m sure the Iranians are spectacular happy to have their cities bombed! Iran was absolutely more liberal before, though still not a free government or country.
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
Well then, the winners this time are the Israelis anjd the Iranian people
only 10% of whom are Muslim but were forced to live under Muslim laws.
Nor is the idea that only 10% are Muslim though plenty are likely not to
want such a strict system. And the government is yes deeply unpopular as
far is possible to tell.
Roger Merriman
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:51:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jun 21 16:21:51 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
Target? I don't think so:
"U.S. Jews? political views (2020)"
<https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/u-s-jews-political-views/> >>> "Pew Research Center surveys, including the 2020 study, show that Jews
are among the most consistently liberal and Democratic groups in the
U.S. population. Seven-in-ten Jewish adults identify with or lean
toward the Democratic Party, and half describe their political views
as liberal."
Do you need an AI interpretation?
As usual, you see things always through the tinted lense of your own inventive beliefs
https://www.jns.org/americans-strongly-support-us-israel-ties-see-iran-proxies-as-direct-threat-poll/
The JNS article does not mention the Democratic Party or have anything
to do with the Pew Research article which once again demonstrates that
you are wrong.
Did you read the JNS article? What part of the JNS article shows
that:
"...the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians
are Jews".
Incidentally, it's the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)>
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:10:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Gee, the Military services and not just the Air Force called Guam a war zone.
Wrong, as usual.
<https://militarypay.defense.gov/Portals/3/Documents/Reports/SR10_Chapter_7.pdf>
(See Pg 269)
"Although the Vietnam combat zone did not include areas such as
Thailand and Guam, the Persian Gulf combat zone extended beyond actual
combat areas like Iraq and Kuwait to encompass low-risk support areas including Qatar, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates."
Incidentally, the correct term is combat zone, not war zone.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:55:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Where did you get the idea that President Trump and Putin where "buddies"?
So you think Putin is blackmailing Trump with the kiddy porn?
I was hoping it was just friendship.
[]'s
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:38:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>you should be more up-to-date
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on politics
Explain again "the Biden administration ALLOWED the media to
proclaim"
I was under the impression that the President NEVER interfered
with the press. The press is ALWAYS free to publish whatever it wants
if you don't live in a dictatorship. If they lie, let justice sort
them out.
Has this changed since Trump took office? Are you now a
classic dictatorship? I believe Trump's friend in North Korea also
tells the press what they can publish.
I quite honestly shuddered when I read what you wrote. Maybe I
should be more up to date.
[]'s
On Mon Jun 23 10:18:25 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:51:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of
that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We
have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large
part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
I live in a forest, in the hills. Some towns have centralized sewage
disposal plants, but most houses, including mine, use septic tanks and
leach field (or infiltrators).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank>
The problem is you really don't want to be pumping drinking water from
anything near a septic tank. On my 1/4 acre lot, finding a safe
location for a water well is impossible. Minimum lot size for a well
and septic system was about 1 acre, but that probably has changed.
Also, water wells are registered, inspected and taxed. I don't know
the details or numbers because I don't know anyone near me that has a
registered water well.
"Individual Water Systems - Santa Cruz County"
<https://www.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/0/County/FireRecovery/pdfs/RPC/IndividualWaterSystems.pdf>
"Sustainable Groundwater Management Act"
<https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sgma/reporting_and_fees.html>
I assume that you get eater from Los Gatos.
On Mon Jun 23 10:42:01 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:15:14 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
There's a risk of contamination.
"The Dangers of Drinking Spring Water and Raw Water"
<https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water>
There are a few springs in the area. Two of these are at easily
accessible roadside locations where the general public can obtain
genuine spring water. When they were still functional, I used to see
cars full of large water containers, filling up at the springs. One
had a large concrete basin to make it easier. I used to grab about 3
gallons when it was convenient.
I don't recall what got into the water. Some people got sick. It was
traced to the roadside springs. The result was the two springs were
eventually closed.
For a time, we had a variety of bugs in water just after the first
rains. The water would wash all the accumulated animal droppings from
the hillsides into the creeks. The local water district usually gets
most of its water from surface sources (river, creek, streams). When
there was a chance of grounwater contamination, they would switch to
well water.
During the CZU fire (2020):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
we were boiling water in some parts of the valley because of ground
water contamination (benzene) from the backflow into melted PVC pipes.
<https://www.slvwd.com/water-quality/pages/long-term-voc-monitoring-post-czu-fire>
Your adjacent reservoirs provide you clean drinking water if peoole up on the surrounding hills aren't running leachfields.
The fear of that is why they have to run constant water quality testing.
Because of rains and snow melt from the last 4 years most of the states reservoirs are filled to the highest levels possible. This is why Newsome thought that he could get away with tearing down dams and eoliminating reservoirs supposedly for the Salmonwhich were not endangered no matter what the environmentalist press tells you.
On Mon Jun 23 10:18:25 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:51:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
I live in a forest, in the hills. Some towns have centralized sewage
disposal plants, but most houses, including mine, use septic tanks and
leach field (or infiltrators).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank>
The problem is you really don't want to be pumping drinking water from
anything near a septic tank. On my 1/4 acre lot, finding a safe
location for a water well is impossible. Minimum lot size for a well
and septic system was about 1 acre, but that probably has changed.
Also, water wells are registered, inspected and taxed. I don't know
the details or numbers because I don't know anyone near me that has a
registered water well.
"Individual Water Systems - Santa Cruz County"
<https://www.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/0/County/FireRecovery/pdfs/RPC/IndividualWaterSystems.pdf>
"Sustainable Groundwater Management Act"
<https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sgma/reporting_and_fees.html>
I assume that you get eater from Los Gatos.
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:10:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
The tears coming from your eyes because I know FAR more than you without paying for a college is embarassing all of us.
LOL. I LUV it!!!
Keep it up!
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:05:35 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 07:25:52 2025 Shadow wrote:
Trump, Bush, etc.
Give me a synopsis of their military services.
I understand Bush was a specialist in cocaine deployment, and
Trump in bone spur warfare. They both served at home. LOL.
PS I doubt you ever defended your country if you served in the
military. Very, very few soldiers after WW2 did.
[]'s
Bomne spurs is a medical problem which you as a claimed doctor should know.
Yes. Very rare in young people and 100% irreversible. Trump's "disappeared".
I have spurs. They started when I was in my 50's.
You can't fake it and the Army cannot use anyone with them.
The RX rays were forged. And bone spurs never prevented me
from doing 24 hr shifts in ER. It's like rhinitis... a bother, but
absolutely NO excuse for not working.
Perhaps you should give us a reference about Bush and Cocaine
Of course:
<https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/how-bush-got-into-the-national-guard-or-how-its-us>
They even printed about it in their magazine. I don't suppose
you'll get the sarcasm.
when Obama was the one with an addiction problem and still does.
That I did NOT know. Addiction? Cigarettes maybe?
Sources?
On Mon Jun 23 12:51:24 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:09:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 10:02 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:55:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 5:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>>>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping >>>>>>> upwards since the last few droughts:...
Dig a well....
Not easy!
BTW, this house was the first built on this street back in 1943, part of >>>>> a large plot of land that was since subdivided into at least six large >>>>> lots, and it still has nine acres of woods adjacent, with just two
houses in those woods.
This house has a well right outside the front door, with two pipe stubs >>>>> protruding through the basement well; but it was attached to "city
water" long before we bought the house. I'm told that some houses in >>>>> this neighborhood still use well water.
In the 1980s one friend tried to convince me to resurrect the well to >>>>> save money, but I couldn't be bothered. I don't think we ever exceeded >>>>> $50 per month.
I've had well water in four of my homes. The last one was drilled
while I watched. I miss the taste of well water.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Huge local variance in that. Down in Manatee County, south
of you, I hated the smell of sulphurous well water. And I've
had very good tasting well water elsewhere.
I grew up on a farm in Illinois between Rockford and Beloit. The
windmill that pulled water from the old well had been replaced with a
new well and an electric pump for the house before I was born, but it
still drew water for the horse and cattle tanks. I really miss that
place. It's a Target Store today.
Last two homes were near Stoughton and then Mt Horeb. Both had wells
and good water. Maybe it was because of all Norwegian people living
around those locations.
I lived on the boat in Bradenton and couldn't drink city water. City
water in Tarpon and St Pete Beach was no better.
The city water here sucks and I can only drink it whan it's mixed with
my ice tea stuff or with my bike ride Nuun tablets.
Up in the surrounding ranches around here they used windmills to pull water out of wells for the livestock until minerals in the water killed the livestock off.
On Sun Jun 22 11:39:06 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:10:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Gee, the Military services and not just the Air Force called Guam a war zone.
Wrong, as usual.
<https://militarypay.defense.gov/Portals/3/Documents/Reports/SR10_Chapter_7.pdf>
(See Pg 269)
"Although the Vietnam combat zone did not include areas such as
Thailand and Guam, the Persian Gulf combat zone extended beyond actual
combat areas like Iraq and Kuwait to encompass low-risk support areas
including Qatar, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates."
Incidentally, the correct term is combat zone, not war zone.
This is the guy who just said he was correcting me!
Yes, Guam was considered part of the war zone during the Vietnam War, serving as a key staging area for U.S. military operations, including the deployment of bombers and resupply missions. Its strategic location made it vital for military logistics andoperations in the Pacific.
Council on Foreign Relations
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:05:35 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 07:25:52 2025 Shadow wrote:
Trump, Bush, etc.
Give me a synopsis of their military services.
I understand Bush was a specialist in cocaine deployment, and
Trump in bone spur warfare. They both served at home. LOL.
PS I doubt you ever defended your country if you served in the
military. Very, very few soldiers after WW2 did.
[]'s
Bomne spurs is a medical problem which you as a claimed doctor should know.
Yes. Very rare in young people and 100% irreversible. Trump's "disappeared".
I have spurs. They started when I was in my 50's.
You can't fake it and the Army cannot use anyone with them.
The RX rays were forged. And bone spurs never prevented me
from doing 24 hr shifts in ER. It's like rhinitis... a bother, but
absolutely NO excuse for not working.
Perhaps you should give us a reference about Bush and Cocaine
Of course:
<https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/how-bush-got-into-the-national-guard-or-how-its-us>
They even printed about it in their magazine. I don't suppose
you'll get the sarcasm.
when Obama was the one with an addiction problem and still does.
That I did NOT know. Addiction? Cigarettes maybe?
Sources?
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:14:43 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>not happy, they advise their client so.
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 07:21:46 2025 Shadow wrote:
Lawyers tend to chose the most stupid jurors they can. Stupid
people are easier to convince. As you pointed out, they prefer right
wingers. It's not a coincidence.
They may have thought of themselves as such before hearing the evidence but the many times I;ve been on juries I've watched the defending attorney cut a deal to avoid guilty verdicts. They closely observe the jury and when it appears that they are
That's how defense lawyers work. Have done so for hundreds of
years ...
When was the last time you were in a US courtroom during jury selection?
Never, thank doG. It can't be too hard to shake though. I
mean, by someone with common sense.
Simply lying in print to hide your own ignorance of everything isn't very admirable.
Errr ... I agreed with you. You said lawyers rarely chose more intelligent center or left wing people. They preferred right wingers.
If I was lying, it was by proxy.
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized
ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 18:54:09 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>and operations in the Pacific.
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 11:39:06 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:10:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Gee, the Military services and not just the Air Force called Guam a war zone.
Wrong, as usual.
<https://militarypay.defense.gov/Portals/3/Documents/Reports/SR10_Chapter_7.pdf>
(See Pg 269)
"Although the Vietnam combat zone did not include areas such as
Thailand and Guam, the Persian Gulf combat zone extended beyond actual
combat areas like Iraq and Kuwait to encompass low-risk support areas
including Qatar, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates."
Incidentally, the correct term is combat zone, not war zone.
This is the guy who just said he was correcting me!
Note that this guy's source is from a Defense Dept document.
If you search with Google, you'll find plenty of hits for:
Vietnam Combat Zone: <https://www.google.com/search?q=vietnam%20combat%20zone>
but nothing relevant for Vietnam War Zone: <https://www.google.com/search?q=vietnam%20war%20zone>
and nothing for Vietnam Conflict Zone: <https://www.google.com/search?q=vietnam%20conflict%20zone>
Please consider yourself corrected.
Yes, Guam was considered part of the war zone during the Vietnam War, serving as a key staging area for U.S. military operations, including the deployment of bombers and resupply missions. Its strategic location made it vital for military logistics
Council on Foreign Relations
Maybe, except military didn't all it a "war zone". For administrative purposes, it was a "combat zone". The question was whether you were
in a combat zone. Methinks not.
You also claimed to have done avionics repair at Oakland Airport:
07/05/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/ZMiLSdqisfg/m/Hvi1fsv9AQAJ> "I worked for Bayaire Avionics for 4 years during the Vietnam Airlift
as an avionics technician."
ICE is deporting criminals.
I think that the fall out between Musk and Trump was because Musk wanted an end to government subsidies to electric car manufacturers.
On 6/23/2025 1:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Up in the surrounding ranches around here they used windmills to pull water out of wells for the livestock until minerals in the water killed the livestock off.
I have rancher customers who make beef out of grass. No
rancher is going to risk a steer to untested water. Period.
https://www.nationalbeefwire.com/
(prices quoted are per 100lbs and steers range about
800~1000 lbs each)
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal? Just for the hell of it? I only got two medals, the Vietnam war medal and the Good Conduct medal.
And yes, I did work at Bayaire Avionics during the airlift of ALL of the soldiers and 110,000 or so Vietnamese who would have been killed for cooperating with Ameriicans or who were part of a Democraticaolly elected government. Can you tell us what thathas to do with anything? Since I was between jobs, unlike you I took anything I could get to make money and they paid me well. Since you don't know anything you don't know how difficult it is to find a flight-line technician.
Also I worked as a technician when I worked for Hawk Telephone. Although we were a lot cheaper than Pactel, there were only two of us and I made more money as a phone tech than as an EE that I left Hawkins for.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 18:17:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I think that the fall out between Musk and Trump was because Musk wanted an end to government subsidies to electric car manufacturers.
You can't imagine all this. If you did you're a genius!
Ever thought of applying for a job as a comedian? You put
Carlin to shame.
This used to be an area completely surrounded by farms and ranches. The water was clean and they had no problems, Then the entire countryside was surrounded with housing projects, broken sewer pipes that no one paid any attention to unless it caused asmell and concrete construction with dirty old concrete that put metals into the ground water.
I know of only one real rancher around here and it is up in the Altamont Pass. Sice they installed those windmills that cattole won't leave the stockyard. The rancher has to feed them when they used to graze where those windmills are now. He has to buywater from the local water company.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:55:26 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 10:42:01 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:15:14 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
There's a risk of contamination.
"The Dangers of Drinking Spring Water and Raw Water"
<https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water>
There are a few springs in the area. Two of these are at easily
accessible roadside locations where the general public can obtain
genuine spring water. When they were still functional, I used to see
cars full of large water containers, filling up at the springs. One
had a large concrete basin to make it easier. I used to grab about 3
gallons when it was convenient.
I don't recall what got into the water. Some people got sick. It was
traced to the roadside springs. The result was the two springs were
eventually closed.
For a time, we had a variety of bugs in water just after the first
rains. The water would wash all the accumulated animal droppings from
the hillsides into the creeks. The local water district usually gets
most of its water from surface sources (river, creek, streams). When
there was a chance of grounwater contamination, they would switch to
well water.
During the CZU fire (2020):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
we were boiling water in some parts of the valley because of ground
water contamination (benzene) from the backflow into melted PVC pipes.
<https://www.slvwd.com/water-quality/pages/long-term-voc-monitoring-post-czu-fire>
Salmon which were not endangered no matter what the environmentalist press tells you.Your adjacent reservoirs provide you clean drinking water if peoole up on the surrounding hills aren't running leachfields.
Loch Lomond is the only adjacent reservoir in the area. <https://www.cityofsantacruz.com/government/city-departments/water/watershed/loch-lomond-recreation>
The reservoir and its water are owned by the city of Santa Cruz. My
area, the San Lorenzo Valley Water District has some rights to its
water, but only for emergencies, such as fighting fires.
Another adjacent reservoir might be Lexington Reservoir: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Reservoir>
The reservoir and its water are owned by the Santa Clara Valley Water District. To the best of my knowledge, there is no water sharing
pipeline or agreement with the Santa Cruz or San Lorenzo Valley water districts.
Leach fields have little to do with the large reservoirs unless the
leach fields are too close to the reservoir. The minimum distance
varies with soil conditions and local government regulations. Typical numbers are between 50 and 200 ft:
"How Much Distance Should Be Between My Septic Tank and Well?" <https://www.water-doctor.com/blog/distance-between-septic-tank-well/>
The fear of that is why they have to run constant water quality testing.
Today's automated monitoring and testing equipment is quite efficient. <https://www.idexx.com/en/water/other-products-services/tecta-water-microbiology-system/>
Because of rains and snow melt from the last 4 years most of the states reservoirs are filled to the highest levels possible. This is why Newsome thought that he could get away with tearing down dams and eoliminating reservoirs supposedly for the
Nice conspiracy theory.
Michelle was a marriage of convenience and is now gone. Obama even came to San Francisco to visit friends in the Castro district. Those children were NOT his, they were the children of some people he knew who knew that a Pesident could offer a greatdeal more to their children than he could. The media hid the fact that they had real parents of that those daughters felt disgust for Obamna.
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2024/03/fact-check-photo-does-not-show-malia-and-sasha-obamas-real-parents.html
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal? Just for the hell of it? I only got two medals, the Vietnam war medal and the Good Conduct medal.
The medal was called the Vietnam Service Medal: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal>
"The Vietnam Service Medal (VSM) was awarded to all members of the
U.S. Armed Forces who served in Vietnam and its contiguous waters or airspace, after 3 July 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the U.S.
Armed Forces in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or airspace thereover,
during the same period and serving in direct support of operations in
Vietnam are also eligible for the award."
You were never in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or in their
airspace.
11/02/2021 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/MyPJ4MA3e60/m/-TZfbH7xAQAJ> "I was born in October of 1944. I joined at 17.5 Those with thethat has to do with anything? Since I was between jobs, unlike you I took anything I could get to make money and they paid me well. Since you don't know anything you don't know how difficult it is to find a flight-line technician.
ability to add would assume that I joined the Air Force in May of
1961. 4 years of active duty and two years inactive liable to be
recalled would to most people mean that I got off of active duty in
1965 and finished my service of the Air Force in 1967."
If you got off active duty in 1965, and the medal was for those who
served after July 3, 1965, you had a 6 month overlap when you were
eligible to receive the medal. Maybe, but I doubt it.
And yes, I did work at Bayaire Avionics during the airlift of ALL of the soldiers and 110,000 or so Vietnamese who would have been killed for cooperating with Ameriicans or who were part of a Democraticaolly elected government. Can you tell us what
You were "between jobs" for 4 years? What years would that have been? According to your online resume, you were at Lowry Air Force Base
1961-1962.
The airlift ran for 2 days, which is much less than 4 years. It was
also 10 years after your active duty ended: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"It was carried out on 29 - 30 April 1975, during the last days of the Vietnam War."
Also I worked as a technician when I worked for Hawk Telephone. Although we were a lot cheaper than Pactel, there were only two of us and I made more money as a phone tech than as an EE that I left Hawkins for.
Is that Hawk or Hawkins? Neither appears in your online resume: <https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/details/experience/>
What year was that?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 19:37:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>deal more to their children than he could. The media hid the fact that they had real parents of that those daughters felt disgust for Obamna.
wrote:
Michelle was a marriage of convenience and is now gone. Obama even came to San Francisco to visit friends in the Castro district. Those children were NOT his, they were the children of some people he knew who knew that a Pesident could offer a great
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2024/03/fact-check-photo-does-not-show-malia-and-sasha-obamas-real-parents.html
Your hatred of Obama is driving you mad. READ the report.
[]'s
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal?
Because medals are very, very cheap.
[]'s
Providing the jury of peers is a state responsibility.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal?
Because medals are very, very cheap.
[]'s
On Mon Jun 23 12:03:24 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:Salmon which were not endangered no matter what the environmentalist press tells you.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:55:26 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 10:42:01 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:15:14 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >> >> >
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
There's a risk of contamination.
"The Dangers of Drinking Spring Water and Raw Water"
<https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water>
There are a few springs in the area. Two of these are at easily
accessible roadside locations where the general public can obtain
genuine spring water. When they were still functional, I used to see
cars full of large water containers, filling up at the springs. One
had a large concrete basin to make it easier. I used to grab about 3
gallons when it was convenient.
I don't recall what got into the water. Some people got sick. It was
traced to the roadside springs. The result was the two springs were
eventually closed.
For a time, we had a variety of bugs in water just after the first
rains. The water would wash all the accumulated animal droppings from
the hillsides into the creeks. The local water district usually gets
most of its water from surface sources (river, creek, streams). When
there was a chance of grounwater contamination, they would switch to
well water.
During the CZU fire (2020):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
we were boiling water in some parts of the valley because of ground
water contamination (benzene) from the backflow into melted PVC pipes.
<https://www.slvwd.com/water-quality/pages/long-term-voc-monitoring-post-czu-fire>
Your adjacent reservoirs provide you clean drinking water if peoole up on the surrounding hills aren't running leachfields.
Loch Lomond is the only adjacent reservoir in the area.
<https://www.cityofsantacruz.com/government/city-departments/water/watershed/loch-lomond-recreation>
The reservoir and its water are owned by the city of Santa Cruz. My
area, the San Lorenzo Valley Water District has some rights to its
water, but only for emergencies, such as fighting fires.
Another adjacent reservoir might be Lexington Reservoir:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Reservoir>
The reservoir and its water are owned by the Santa Clara Valley Water
District. To the best of my knowledge, there is no water sharing
pipeline or agreement with the Santa Cruz or San Lorenzo Valley water
districts.
Leach fields have little to do with the large reservoirs unless the
leach fields are too close to the reservoir. The minimum distance
varies with soil conditions and local government regulations. Typical
numbers are between 50 and 200 ft:
"How Much Distance Should Be Between My Septic Tank and Well?"
<https://www.water-doctor.com/blog/distance-between-septic-tank-well/>
The fear of that is why they have to run constant water quality testing.
Today's automated monitoring and testing equipment is quite efficient.
<https://www.idexx.com/en/water/other-products-services/tecta-water-microbiology-system/>
Because of rains and snow melt from the last 4 years most of the states reservoirs are filled to the highest levels possible. This is why Newsome thought that he could get away with tearing down dams and eoliminating reservoirs supposedly for the
Nice conspiracy theory.
Most of the salmon runs are the small rivers that flow directly into the sea and the Sacramentoi and San Juaquin river systems.
Tearing down SMALL dams with fish ladders on them have no effect on pacific salmon.
But your inventions simply don't include the facts that a single Salmon can release a thousand roe and larger runs of salmon simply overload the system and the Salmon die of starvation before even reaching the sea.
Moreover, you can have your cake and eat it too. You can install slots under the dam that offer no resistance other than increased current to Salmon while retaining the power generation ability of dams in an energy poor area of the state.
Liebermann, the expert on everything fails yet again.
On 6/23/2025 4:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal? Just for the hell of it? I only got two medals, the Vietnam war medal and the Good Conduct medal.
The medal was called the Vietnam Service Medal:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal>
"The Vietnam Service Medal (VSM) was awarded to all members of the
U.S. Armed Forces who served in Vietnam and its contiguous waters or
airspace, after 3 July 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the U.S.
Armed Forces in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or airspace thereover,
during the same period and serving in direct support of operations in
Vietnam are also eligible for the award."
You were never in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or in their
airspace.
I seem to remember tommy claiming he could discern the condition of a
dirt road (the ho chi minh trail) under a jungle canopy while looking
through the bomb bay doors of a B-52 flying at 300 mph and a mile up.
Unless of course he was lying about that too.....what are the odds?
that has to do with anything? Since I was between jobs, unlike you I took anything I could get to make money and they paid me well. Since you don't know anything you don't know how difficult it is to find a flight-line technician.
11/02/2021
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/MyPJ4MA3e60/m/-TZfbH7xAQAJ> >> "I was born in October of 1944. I joined at 17.5 Those with the
ability to add would assume that I joined the Air Force in May of
1961. 4 years of active duty and two years inactive liable to be
recalled would to most people mean that I got off of active duty in
1965 and finished my service of the Air Force in 1967."
If you got off active duty in 1965, and the medal was for those who
served after July 3, 1965, you had a 6 month overlap when you were
eligible to receive the medal. Maybe, but I doubt it.
And yes, I did work at Bayaire Avionics during the airlift of ALL of the soldiers and 110,000 or so Vietnamese who would have been killed for cooperating with Ameriicans or who were part of a Democraticaolly elected government. Can you tell us what
--
You were "between jobs" for 4 years? What years would that have been?
According to your online resume, you were at Lowry Air Force Base
1961-1962.
The airlift ran for 2 days, which is much less than 4 years. It was
also 10 years after your active duty ended:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"It was carried out on 29 - 30 April 1975, during the last days of the
Vietnam War."
Also I worked as a technician when I worked for Hawk Telephone. Although we were a lot cheaper than Pactel, there were only two of us and I made more money as a phone tech than as an EE that I left Hawkins for.
Is that Hawk or Hawkins? Neither appears in your online resume:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/details/experience/>
What year was that?
On 6/23/2025 4:07 PM, Shadow wrote:3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1f60Wnk6PjHDrVAORt4AqimcgF3baJnVkK1LbuuoJkU0ms1EuXemmfK0F0D6tqCFPUYAtGQI2GzQdXzS1zF3KUcnX9pFiW3oWTn%2BKYB1ZwiAr9XFseVEDjdy5o1awzQa7Vm7ugzDVknb%2BoUERUaxu%2Bg1%
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal?
Because medals are very, very cheap.
[]'s
That's true.
Vietnam Service Medal ribbon only $1.99:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/291997770593?_skw=vietnam+service+medal&itmmeta=01JYFAHKEBYHJ84VS22EVFFJEY&hash=item43fc6c6361:g:BQsAAOSwfsFlO7SL&itmprp=enc%
Medal with ribbon $7.95: >https://www.ebay.com/itm/316416188147?_skw=vietnam+service+medal&itmmeta=01JYFAHKED9NF1ZQ8CC3DV0YFQ&hash=item49abdfdef3:g:Kb8AAOSwrBRnw2uJ&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1eAauLRTN877esiMhQCmWzBUgpTcxOxp9wCt6jvlcSfFUcuW%2FLXUJd9bWnu5wwHrlHI1AMmtzgN2vgFaEeGNBVG18b%2FfBcjCuW3ct3vhvGk%2BfjH86zvYi9kE7jYQMf2T3WT8xYpBbMjgFQv%2F16T40MDkbzKXY1hvj%2BT0TDUmKYy4ecW%2BbC1ycXUNvrPUpUdyM77Z%2FuW72lw7QSsOIsY8QvBPem5f%
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:51:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts: >>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020: >>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service.
In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly >>>bill.
Dig a well....
I live in a forest, in the hills. Some towns have centralized sewage >disposal plants, but most houses, including mine, use septic tanks and
leach field (or infiltrators).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank>
The problem is you really don't want to be pumping drinking water from >anything near a septic tank. On my 1/4 acre lot, finding a safe
location for a water well is impossible. Minimum lot size for a well
and septic system was about 1 acre, but that probably has changed.
Also, water wells are registered, inspected and taxed. I don't know
the details or numbers because I don't know anyone near me that has a >registered water well.
"Individual Water Systems - Santa Cruz County" ><https://www.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/0/County/FireRecovery/pdfs/RPC/IndividualWaterSystems.pdf>
"Sustainable Groundwater Management Act" ><https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sgma/reporting_and_fees.html>
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap themoff. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
On Sun Jun 22 09:08:17 2025 AMuzi wrote:
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
Well then, the winners this time are the Israelis anjd the Iranian people only 10% of whom are Muslim but were forced to live under Muslim laws.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:18:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:51:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>>that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>>have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping >>>>upwards since the last few droughts: >>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>>part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020: >>>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>>In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where >>>>reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly >>>>bill.
Dig a well....
I live in a forest, in the hills. Some towns have centralized sewage >>disposal plants, but most houses, including mine, use septic tanks and >>leach field (or infiltrators).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank>
The problem is you really don't want to be pumping drinking water from >>anything near a septic tank. On my 1/4 acre lot, finding a safe
location for a water well is impossible. Minimum lot size for a well
and septic system was about 1 acre, but that probably has changed.
Also, water wells are registered, inspected and taxed. I don't know
the details or numbers because I don't know anyone near me that has a >>registered water well.
"Individual Water Systems - Santa Cruz County" >><https://www.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/0/County/FireRecovery/pdfs/RPC/IndividualWaterSystems.pdf>
"Sustainable Groundwater Management Act" >><https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sgma/reporting_and_fees.html>
Goodness! You dig a well on your own property then have to pay tax on
it?
..... and this in a country that began (partially) to avoid a tax on
tea..
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:you should be more up-to-date
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on politics
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's
a difficult task.
On Sun Jun 22 11:55:06 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:10:59 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
The tears coming from your eyes because I know FAR more than you without paying for a college is embarassing all of us.
I have no idea what you know. However, I have found a considerable
number of things about which you are wrong, clueless or misinformed.
As for paying for college during the early 1960's, there was the GI
Bill to help pay for your college education. With your extensive
military training, you should have quallified.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Bill>
72% of Vietnam veterans used the G.I. Bill.
Why would I need to take the time and effort to get a degree when I could teach myself for nothing?
Liebermann, you are a moron that could not work as an EE even
after taiking 6 years to get a pity degree.
I'm the one well off and you're the one living on welfare.
I'm the one who designed and programed medical instruments used
to this day
and you're the one changing ink jet printer cartridges for people incapable of knowing how to open a compartment.
You correcting me is about as silly as you can get. You could not even get a job as a real EE - you getting a QC job was as important as you ever made it. And no one would give you a recommendation because of your foolishness.
If I had gotten a degree under the GI Bill there is no doubt that you would have found something wrong with that.
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance.
Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others
when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap them
off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
--
cheers,
John B.
On 6/23/2025 1:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 07:28:28 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:22:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Frank loves to act superior when he couldn't even work at the job he
was trained for. Frank, you do not have a high IQ.
Higher than average, certainly.
That's why you were hired, you could read textbooks written by
people who knew whatr they were talking about.
Textbooks are written by teachers.
They usually know what they're talking about.
The FACT that someone writes a textbook does not make them a teacher
but an expert. Frank took a job after college as an industrial
engineer and couldn't hack the job because maintenance engineering is
one of the most boring jobs in the world.
I would warrant that if he got a job designing automobile engines of
Tesla electric motors he would never have looked back. All of this
crap about wanting to teach is nothing more than BS he tells himself
because he got the wrong sort of job to begin with. His comments here
that aren't an attempt to blame someone else for his failures, show
that he is not stupid and could have made a good ME.
Note to self: Do not respond to his nonsense...
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 10:18:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:51:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly
bill.
Dig a well....
I live in a forest, in the hills. Some towns have centralized sewage
disposal plants, but most houses, including mine, use septic tanks and
leach field (or infiltrators).
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septic_tank>
The problem is you really don't want to be pumping drinking water from
anything near a septic tank. On my 1/4 acre lot, finding a safe
location for a water well is impossible. Minimum lot size for a well
and septic system was about 1 acre, but that probably has changed.
Also, water wells are registered, inspected and taxed. I don't know
the details or numbers because I don't know anyone near me that has a
registered water well.
"Individual Water Systems - Santa Cruz County"
<https://www.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/0/County/FireRecovery/pdfs/RPC/IndividualWaterSystems.pdf>
"Sustainable Groundwater Management Act"
<https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sgma/reporting_and_fees.html>
Goodness! You dig a well on your own property then have to pay tax on
it?
..... and this in a country that began (partially) to avoid a tax on
tea..
--
cheers,
John B.
On 6/23/2025 12:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:21:16 2025 cyclintom wrote:
Frank, I always have to wonder why you don't even know about your own
finances.
"Investment, insurance and annuity products are not FDIC insured, are
not bank guaranteed, are not deposits, are not insured by any federal
government agency, are not a condition to any banking service or
activity, and may lose value."
What this means is that your retirement is guaranteed by the
university itselof and is entirely supported by high enough enrollment.
Oh. I should take the word of an uneducated Californian who can't afford
to move out of the hellhole he constantly complains about? Whose worth
is tied up in the tiny overvalued house and the dozen bikes that he
churns through and complains about not being able to sell? Who whines
about grocery prices, water bills, gas prices and more?
No thanks. I think I prefer to trust the advice and services of my professional, educated and certified financial advisor. She's done very,
very well for me for many years now. Her biggest bit of recent advice is
that I should start spending more money.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowskipolitics you should be more up-to-date
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's
a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time
to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
On 6/23/2025 12:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:21:16 2025 cyclintom wrote:
Frank, I always have to wonder why you don't even know about your own finances.
"Investment, insurance and annuity products are not FDIC insured, are not bank guaranteed, are not deposits, are not insured by any federal government agency, are not a condition to any banking service or activity, and may lose value."
What this means is that your retirement is guaranteed by the university itselof and is entirely supported by high enough enrollment.
Oh. I should take the word of an uneducated Californian who can't afford
to move out of the hellhole he constantly complains about? Whose worth
is tied up in the tiny overvalued house and the dozen bikes that he
churns through and complains about not being able to sell? Who whines
about grocery prices, water bills, gas prices and more?
No thanks. I think I prefer to trust the advice and services of my >professional, educated and certified financial advisor. She's done very,
very well for me for many years now. Her biggest bit of recent advice is
that I should start spending more money.
On 6/23/2025 9:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance.
No, they don't. A properly built septic system needs pumping every few
years - that's it, no more maintenance.
Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others
That's because they stink.
On 23 Jun 2025 16:58:04 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 09:08:17 2025 AMuzi wrote:Yup I’m sure the Iranians are spectacular happy to have their cities
There's no such thing as 'international law' Ask Haille
Selassie, a noted expert.
Victors prosecute war crimes. Sometimes.
Well then, the winners this time are the Israelis anjd the Iranian people >>> only 10% of whom are Muslim but were forced to live under Muslim laws.
bombed! Iran was absolutely more liberal before, though still not a free
government or country.
Nor is the idea that only 10% are Muslim though plenty are likely not to
want such a strict system. And the government is yes deeply unpopular as
far is possible to tell.
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims grateful.
Though if China bombed California, Tom would probably have an
orgasm. Less voters for Gavin Handsome, his favorite politician...
[]'s
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:52:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >>tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
Did you two loons complain during Obama's bombing sprees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636
On 6/23/2025 1:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
Damn. I can't resist.
Tom, do you purposely look for mistakes to post? Most people here now
assume, with justification, that if you say something, it must be wrong.
Tesla batteries are no longer made with rare earth metals (lithium)
and CANNOT catch fire.
Lithium is not a rare earth metal. Look it up!
EV battery fires are about 1/20th as common as I.C. engine car fires, so
it's not a serious issue. But Teslas have caught fire. See <https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/tesla-car-battery-fire- needed-6000-gallons-water-to-extinguish-rcna68153>
Other electric cars could not be profitable without government
provided subsidies.
If my EV got subsidies, it would have had to be from the Korean government.
A new bare bones Tesla is only $11,000.
You're off by a factor of four. I recently posted evidence.
Facebook allows anyone to post under any identity so many are posting
under famous names and saying stupid things.
While you're posting stupid things under your own name. Thanks for that honesty, anyway.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 19:57:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>politics you should be more up-to-date
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from >>>reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's
a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time
to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
Well of course... a matter of "Look! Look! Everyone look! .... Someone >noticed me today"
On 6/23/2025 12:17 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >>> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized >>> ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II
kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and
Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
For the 1914 Great War, everyone lost.
For the 1939 war, Russia clearly won in the European theater
and USA in the Pacific. (with many contributions and much
suffering from multiple allies all around)
Because medals are very, very cheap.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:27:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
This used to be an area completely surrounded by farms and ranches. The
water was clean and they had no problems, Then the entire countryside
was surrounded with housing projects, broken sewer pipes that no one
paid any attention to unless it caused a smell and concrete construction
with dirty old concrete that put metals into the ground water.
I know of only one real rancher around here and it is up in the Altamont
Pass. Sice they installed those windmills that cattole won't leave the
stockyard. The rancher has to feed them when they used to graze where
those windmills are now. He has to buy water from the local water company.
Baloney, as usual. There seem to be a fair number of photos of cattle grazing on todays wind farms: <https://www.google.com/search?q=cows%20grazing%20wind%20farm%20cows%20cattle&udm=2>
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 04:02:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:52:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski >><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >>>tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
Did you two loons complain during Obama's bombing sprees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636
Of course. You would have to be a psychopath not to.
But there is a difference. I believe Obama inherited those
wars from the repuglicans.
Trump promised the US would not waste another cent on wars.
The Ukraine war would end the day after he took office, and America
would not support genocidal fascists in the middle east. All the tax
money you pay (?) would go to improving employment, salaries, health
etc back home.
America will never be "Great Again" with the stats of a third
world country.
[]'s
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 11:48:13 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 04:02:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:52:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >>>> tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
Did you two loons complain during Obama's bombing sprees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636
Of course. You would have to be a psychopath not to.
But there is a difference. I believe Obama inherited those
wars from the repuglicans.
In his last year in office? Really?
Trump promised the US would not waste another cent on wars.
The Ukraine war would end the day after he took office, and America
would not support genocidal fascists in the middle east. All the tax
money you pay (?) would go to improving employment, salaries, health
etc back home.
America will never be "Great Again" with the stats of a third
world country.
[]'s
It's working pretty great for me right now..
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 11:48:13 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 04:02:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:52:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >>>>tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
Did you two loons complain during Obama's bombing sprees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636
Of course. You would have to be a psychopath not to.
But there is a difference. I believe Obama inherited those
wars from the repuglicans.
In his last year in office? Really?
Trump promised the US would not waste another cent on wars.
The Ukraine war would end the day after he took office, and America
would not support genocidal fascists in the middle east. All the tax
money you pay (?) would go to improving employment, salaries, health
etc back home.
America will never be "Great Again" with the stats of a third
world country.
[]'s
It's working pretty great for me right now..
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 12:27:58 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 11:48:13 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 04:02:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder >>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:52:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>>><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >>>>>tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
Did you two loons complain during Obama's bombing sprees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636
Of course. You would have to be a psychopath not to.
But there is a difference. I believe Obama inherited those
wars from the repuglicans.
In his last year in office? Really?
Could have sworn That Iraque and Afghanistan were Bush's
doing. (His family was in the oil trade) Not sure about the others.
How many wars do you claim Obama started?
Trump promised the US would not waste another cent on wars.
The Ukraine war would end the day after he took office, and America
would not support genocidal fascists in the middle east. All the tax >>>money you pay (?) would go to improving employment, salaries, health
etc back home.
America will never be "Great Again" with the stats of a third
world country.
[]'s
It's working pretty great for me right now..
You need employment and a good salary?
Oh, you mean the shares
you own increase in value if American's salaries are low and
unemployment is high!!! Or maybe you invested heavily in genocide?
Always knew you were a sociopath.
[]'s
In article <jfgj5k91h05snm86shcbtvm6ngvphkkkb3@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
Because medals are very, very cheap.
My great-great grandfather received an aluminum medal for work his
company did for Switzerland.
At the time, aluminum was difficult to refine, so it was rather special.
I held it once and it was hilariously lightweight; probably a good
talking point back then, though.
In article <jfgj5k91h05snm86shcbtvm6ngvphkkkb3@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
Because medals are very, very cheap.
My great-great grandfather received an aluminum medal for work his
company did for Switzerland.
At the time, aluminum was difficult to refine, so it was rather special.
I held it once and it was hilariously lightweight; probably a good
talking point back then, though.
On 6/24/2025 12:27 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <jfgj5k91h05snm86shcbtvm6ngvphkkkb3@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
Because medals are very, very cheap.
My great-great grandfather received an aluminum medal for
work his
company did for Switzerland.
At the time, aluminum was difficult to refine, so it was
rather special.
I held it once and it was hilariously lightweight;
probably a good
talking point back then, though.
At one point Aluminum qualified as a precious metal. Legend
has it that Napoleon III used aluminum utensils for himself
and his guests of honor at state dinners, while all the
others had to make due with gold.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:48:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:21:16 2025 cyclintom wrote:
Frank, I always have to wonder why you don't even know about your own finances.
"Investment, insurance and annuity products are not FDIC insured, are not bank guaranteed, are not deposits, are not insured by any federal government agency, are not a condition to any banking service or activity, and may lose value."
What this means is that your retirement is guaranteed by the university itselof and is entirely supported by high enough enrollment.
Oh. I should take the word of an uneducated Californian who can't afford
to move out of the hellhole he constantly complains about? Whose worth
is tied up in the tiny overvalued house and the dozen bikes that he
churns through and complains about not being able to sell? Who whines
about grocery prices, water bills, gas prices and more?
No thanks. I think I prefer to trust the advice and services of my >>professional, educated and certified financial advisor. She's done very, >>very well for me for many years now. Her biggest bit of recent advice is >>that I should start spending more money.
We've been spending... Life is good...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_soloman/54600941432/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_soloman/54600941282/
On 6/24/2025 11:27 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 11:48:13 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 04:02:21 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:52:41 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 2:25 PM, Shadow wrote:
According to our press the bombing greatly increased the
Iranian government's support. It was seen as a stupid mistake by
everyone from the British, to the Russians though to the Chinese.
The Chinese and the Russian are laughing, but the British are
worried about escalation and vengeance (as are most of the EU
countries).
Only Americans would think bombing a country makes the victims
grateful.
I'm struck by a similarity to December 7, 1941. Similar motives, similar >>>>> tactics. That attack was called "infamy."
Did you two loons complain during Obama's bombing sprees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pakistan-afghanistan-libya-yemen-somalia-n704636
Of course. You would have to be a psychopath not to.
But there is a difference. I believe Obama inherited those
wars from the repuglicans.
In his last year in office? Really?
Trump promised the US would not waste another cent on wars.
The Ukraine war would end the day after he took office, and America
would not support genocidal fascists in the middle east. All the tax
money you pay (?) would go to improving employment, salaries, health
etc back home.
America will never be "Great Again" with the stats of a third
world country.
[]'s
It's working pretty great for me right now..
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Not only you:
https://unemploymentdata.com/employment/wages/blue-collar-wages-surge-in-2025/
We're trying to convince my dad of that. He's eighty-four and has a
pretty decent "nest egg". Both my sister and I have done well enough
that we don't need it, so we've told him to spend it - travel, buy a
nice car, go out to dinner. Especially that he lives with me in an
in-law apartment and has medical care covered for free from his 22 years
in the army. WE are working with an attorney now to set him up so that
when he does pass we can avoid as much probate any any taxes as
possible. We've told him if he insists of leaving an inheritance, leave
it to his grandchildren.
Check the timeline just after the Washington Monument aluminum pyramid
cap:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:21:16 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jun 21 20:00:35 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/21/2025 3:37 PM, cyclintom wrote:
There is, in fact, almost nothing that you actually care about until your Democrat friends kill Youngstown University and cut off your pension.
Sigh. Tom, bombs could obliterate my university yet I would still get my >> pension. That's not where the money comes from.
But I do care about other things! Here, I (occasionally) care about
refuting your nonsense - even though I let most of it go without
comment. There's just too much to deal with.
Frank, I always have to wonder why you don't even know about your own finances.
"Investment, insurance and annuity products are not FDIC insured, are not bank guaranteed, are not deposits, are not insured by any federal government agency, are not a condition to any banking service or activity, and may lose value."
Now you interested me. What is your welfare check?
Investment, insurance, or annuity?
If Trump can take it away, I'd be VERY worried if I was you.
rOn Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:17:14 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized >> ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
Russia won world war II. If Hitler had not invaded Russia we would all
be speaking Trump.
The US was not dragged in "kicking and screaming". They initially
supported Germany, but when it became clear they'd backed the wrong
horse, they decided to send their poor in to secure their loans...
Someone once claimed that the number of military chest medals is
roughly proportional to the number of battles lost. I don't know if
that's true or not.
On 6/23/2025 12:17 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well
beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized >> ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
For the 1914 Great War, everyone lost.
For the 1939 war, Russia clearly won in the European theater
and USA in the Pacific. (with many contributions and much
suffering from multiple allies all around)
On Mon Jun 23 13:10:21 2025 AMuzi wrote:off simply by sinking 20 ships . In WW II we were building a ship a day to keep up with those being sunk.
On 6/23/2025 12:23 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 11:03:15 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/22/2025 10:38 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sat Jun 21 15:12:43 2025 Catrike Ryder wrote:
Because they depend on the USA's military.
One very serious problem is that most of the world's freight is moved by a very limited number of container ships so large that it takes high tides and special operations even to turn them around in the port of Oakland. Freight can easily be cut
Uh no.
https://www.atlas-mag.net/en/category/tags/focus/the-world-merchant-fleet >>>
Andrew please read these thing before you post:
The US flag merchant ships are only 3.27% of the worlds fleet.
So what?
US ocean commercial cargo is primarily FL to Puerto Rico &
US possessions and then CA to Hawaii and possessions, due to
the Jones Act.
And "US Flag" carriers are even a smaller chunk than the
3.27% number. We are not a player in XL container ships.
We're not even a rounding error. Of the 55,000 commercial
vessels in link above, US Flag are only about 180 hulls of
all types in total. Pfffft.
https://www.bts.gov/content/number-and-size-us-flag-merchant-fleet-and-its-share-world-fleet
Oh, and your ridiculous "20 ships" fantasy mentioned nothing
about US flag carriers.
My point was that the US cannot move any cargo without the full cooperation of the rest of the world. Container ships are I believe to be mostly Chinese. They are so large that you can only grasp their size in person. The latest containers are, Ibelieve, 56 feet long so they have been building freight cars to suit thius larger siZe. These trains rarely go south now but east. I'm not sure how they get over the Rocky Mountains. They must have six or seven tadem engines on front and two on the back
On 6/24/2025 1:30 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 16:27:52 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us> wrote:
In article <jfgj5k91h05snm86shcbtvm6ngvphkkkb3@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
Because medals are very, very cheap.
My great-great grandfather received an aluminum medal for work his
company did for Switzerland.
At the time, aluminum was difficult to refine, so it was rather special. >>> I held it once and it was hilariously lightweight; probably a good
talking point back then, though.
If one is going to wear them on his chest, light weight is important.
Chest full of medals:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=chest%20full%20of%20medals&udm=2>
Someone once claimed that the number of military chest medals is roughly
proportional to the number of battles lost. I don't know if that's
true or not.
Goodness! You dig a well on your own property then have to pay tax on
it?
..... and this in a country that began (partially) to avoid a tax on
tea..
In article <103etg8$26nu7$4@dont-email.me>,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone once claimed that the number of military chest medals is
roughly proportional to the number of battles lost. I don't know if
that's true or not.
The longer you're in command, the more likely you are to be awarded
medals. The longer you're in command, the more likely you are to have
lost battles. So... maybe!
But if it is true, it's certainly a non-causal correlation.
On 6/24/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:51:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
rOn Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:17:14 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive
measures, which
is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well >>>>> beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US
sized
ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II
kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and
Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
Russia won world war II. If Hitler had not invaded Russia we would all
be speaking Trump.
The US was not dragged in "kicking and screaming". They initially
supported Germany, but when it became clear they'd backed the wrong
horse, they decided to send their poor in to secure their loans...
Russia didn;t win shit. Hitler had so little respect for them he put
all of his good armies on the western front. Eisenhower simply
outsmarted him, got a landing and rolled them up. The Battle of the
Bulge was merely caused by the American tanks taking a different rout.
After Paton trned and headed north Germany folded. Germany had too
much self confidence and its generals made too many mistakes because
of that. But after the success Normandy the end was inevitable. US day
time bombing raids and GB night time raids killed the industrial
capacity of Germany and Germany was alone fighting the entire world.
The German staff had about half the intelligence as any common German
on the street.
You have no idea.
I'm amidst this new work, my 4th on the subject, and it's chock full of
newly recovered detail. You might enjoy it:
https://www.alibris.com/Stalingrad-Antony-Beevor/book/6300850? qsort=p&matches=211
Without Zhukov, nothing.
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
including the yearly budget.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >billion more than we had.
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50
billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but
I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a simple majority.
On Mon Jun 23 12:48:16 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:17 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >>>> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well >>>> beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized >>>> ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
For the 1914 Great War, everyone lost.
For the 1939 war, Russia clearly won in the European theater
and USA in the Pacific. (with many contributions and much
suffering from multiple allies all around)
Even though Germany had their worst armies in Russia the Russians came withing an inch of losing Stalingrad. Russia got one advantage - Hitler sent all of his best armiexs to the western front. Also his best weapons. Also his best Air forces.
I suppose we could agree to disagree concerning Russia but they really lost the war because Hitler needed his armis to the south.
On Mon Jun 23 16:51:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
rOn Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:17:14 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which >>>> is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well >>>> beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized >>>> ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
Russia won world war II. If Hitler had not invaded Russia we would all
be speaking Trump.
The US was not dragged in "kicking and screaming". They initially
supported Germany, but when it became clear they'd backed the wrong
horse, they decided to send their poor in to secure their loans...
Russia didn;t win shit. Hitler had so little respect for them he put all of his good armies on the western front. Eisenhower simply outsmarted him, got a landing and rolled them up. The Battle of the Bulge was merely caused by the American tanks takinga different rout. After Paton trned and headed north Germany folded. Germany had too much self confidence and its generals made too many mistakes because of that. But after the success Normandy the end was inevitable. US day time bombing raids and GB
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed
appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not
increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is
down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just
reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there
could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in
prices". But he is
championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not
undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of
pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to
have spent 50
billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the
federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the
debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful
bill" will only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for
the house version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a
bill that either
raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful
Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise
taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out
of office, but
I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and
lower taxes on
imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day
Congress wrests this
power back when they tire of the antics that both he and
Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds
vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the
Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a signature
or veto. But I
can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority
to raise taxes
despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a
thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and
it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that
only requires a
simple majority.
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is
championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >>>> billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will
only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-
beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either >>> raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but >>> I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on
imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this >>> power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I >>> can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes >>> despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a >>> simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in numbers is
from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is probably closer but
the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50
billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but
I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a simple majority.
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not
changed appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not
increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is
down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like)
just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there
could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in
prices". But he is
championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not
undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of
pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard
to have spent 50
billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the
federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase
the debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful
bill" will only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </
sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T
(for the house version, https://taxfoundation.org/
research/all/ federal/big- beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-
plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a
bill that either
raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful
Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise
taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted
out of office, but
I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and
lower taxes on
imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day
Congress wrests this
power back when they tire of the antics that both he and
Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a
2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the
Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a
signature or veto. But I
can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds
majority to raise taxes
despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a
thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases
and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that
only requires a
simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference
in numbers is from static or dynamic scoring. Tax
Foundation is probably closer but the whole miserable
thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the
US as a monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he
wouldn't have it any other way). The "BBB" is just a
manifestation of the shortsightedness, hypocrisy, and
cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
If I recall, a tax change (or other major legislation) does need 2/3
vote under Senate rules except as a reconciliation item.
And as we saw over the past months reconciliation bills are extremely
limited in subject area (which obviates many proposed add-on
amendments).
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably >>>> since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A >>>> chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is
championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At >>>> least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >>>>> billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling >>>> by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will
only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-
beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either >>>> raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some* >>>> tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way >>>> that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but >>>> I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on >>>> imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this >>>> power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged >>>> in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe >>>> back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I >>>> can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes >>>> despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again, >>>> the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a >>>> simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in numbers is
from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is probably closer but
the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the US as a >monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he wouldn't have it any
other way). The "BBB" is just a manifestation of the shortsightedness, >hypocrisy, and cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
In article <103f58r$28s6c$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
But the DOGE effort was perfectly legal and has precedents.
Finding errors is fine, but not paying money that's already been
allocated violates Article I. Even SCOTUS has been telling them to pay
up.
If I recall, a tax change (or other major legislation) does need 2/3
vote under Senate rules except as a reconciliation item.
I *think* that 3/5ths vote is only required when one side blocks debate
with a filibuster (or threatens to, which seems to be good enough these days). Then 60 Senators vote for cloture and then can easily pass the
bill with a simple majority.
And as we saw over the past months reconciliation bills are extremely
limited in subject area (which obviates many proposed add-on
amendments).
Thanks to Byrd. The sale of our public lands just got taken out of the
Big Beautiful Bill with this mechanism after basically *everyone*
complained.
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably >>>> since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A >>>> chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is
championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At >>>> least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >>>>> billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling >>>> by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will
only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-
beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either >>>> raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some* >>>> tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way >>>> that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but >>>> I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on >>>> imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this >>>> power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged >>>> in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe >>>> back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I >>>> can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes >>>> despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again, >>>> the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a >>>> simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in numbers is
from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is probably closer but
the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the US as a >monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he wouldn't have it any
other way). The "BBB" is just a manifestation of the shortsightedness, >hypocrisy, and cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:08:17 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably >>>>> since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A >>>>> chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is >>>>> championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At >>>>> least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >>>>>> billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit >>>>> this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling >>>>> by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will
only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-
beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either >>>>> raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some* >>>>> tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way >>>>> that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but >>>>> I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on >>>>> imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this >>>>> power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged >>>>> in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe >>>>> back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I >>>>> can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes >>>>> despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again, >>>>> the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going >>>>> through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a >>>>> simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in numbers is
from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is probably closer but
the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the US as a
monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he wouldn't have it any
other way). The "BBB" is just a manifestation of the shortsightedness,
hypocrisy, and cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
--
cheers,
John B.
On 6/24/2025 6:03 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <103f58r$28s6c$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
But the DOGE effort was perfectly legal and has precedents.
Finding errors is fine, but not paying money that's already been
allocated violates Article I. Even SCOTUS has been telling them to pay
up.
If I recall, a tax change (or other major legislation) does need 2/3
vote under Senate rules except as a reconciliation item.
I *think* that 3/5ths vote is only required when one side blocks debate
with a filibuster (or threatens to, which seems to be good enough these
days). Then 60 Senators vote for cloture and then can easily pass the
bill with a simple majority.
And as we saw over the past months reconciliation bills are extremely
limited in subject area (which obviates many proposed add-on
amendments).
Thanks to Byrd. The sale of our public lands just got taken out of the
Big Beautiful Bill with this mechanism after basically *everyone*
complained.
People see that differently.
The Bureau of Land Mismangement is more a problem than a solution. And
before 1913 16th Amendment, land sales were a major Federal revenue
source. The area and numbers are gargantuan and have better potential IMHO.
On 6/24/2025 11:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:08:17 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably >>>>>> since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased >>>>>> appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A >>>>>> chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported >>>>>> higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a >>>>>> correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is >>>>>> championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At >>>>>> least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >>>>>>> billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit >>>>>> this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling >>>>>> by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will
only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house >>>>> version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-
beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either >>>>>> raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some* >>>>>> tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way >>>>>> that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but >>>>>> I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on >>>>>> imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this >>>>>> power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged >>>>>> in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe >>>>>> back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I >>>>>> can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes >>>>>> despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again, >>>>>> the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going >>>>>> through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a >>>>>> simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in numbers is >>>> from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is probably closer but
the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the US as a
monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he wouldn't have it any
other way). The "BBB" is just a manifestation of the shortsightedness,
hypocrisy, and cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it. >>
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a >wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage
of less than 2%.
--
cheers,
John B.
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of
the bell curve.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:08:17 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably >>>>> since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A >>>>> chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is >>>>> championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At >>>>> least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >>>>>> billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit >>>>> this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling >>>>> by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will
only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/ federal/big-
beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either >>>>> raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some* >>>>> tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way >>>>> that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but >>>>> I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on >>>>> imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this >>>>> power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged >>>>> in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe >>>>> back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I >>>>> can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes >>>>> despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again, >>>>> the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going >>>>> through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a >>>>> simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in numbers is
from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is probably closer but
the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the US as a >>monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he wouldn't have it any
other way). The "BBB" is just a manifestation of the shortsightedness, >>hypocrisy, and cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of
the bell curve.
How many "totalitarians" are for fewer government regulations and
mandates?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 06:52:55 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
How many "totalitarians" are for fewer government regulations and
mandates?
All of them. They ARE the government, "forever". Note the
biggest, bestist, bustiest bill is all about control over the
population.
You don't need regulations when whatever you say is law. Even
if you do a TACO and you say the opposite the next day.
[]'s
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:30:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of
the bell curve.
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
On 6/23/2025 10:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/23/2025 1:11 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 07:28:28 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 15:22:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Frank loves to act superior when he couldn't even work at the job he >>>> was trained for. Frank, you do not have a high IQ.
Higher than average, certainly.
That's why you were hired, you could read textbooks written by
people who knew whatr they were talking about.
Textbooks are written by teachers.
They usually know what they're talking about.
The FACT that someone writes a textbook does not make them a teacher
but an expert. Frank took a job after college as an industrial
engineer and couldn't hack the job because maintenance engineering is
one of the most boring jobs in the world.
I would warrant that if he got a job designing automobile engines of
Tesla electric motors he would never have looked back. All of this
crap about wanting to teach is nothing more than BS he tells himself
because he got the wrong sort of job to begin with. His comments here
that aren't an attempt to blame someone else for his failures, show
that he is not stupid and could have made a good ME.
Note to self: Do not respond to his nonsense...
Blocking helps. I avoid the vast majority of his nonsense that way.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will only
add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version, https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/big-beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:40:37 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:30:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of >>>the bell curve.
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
Agreed, The right wing NEVER have anything good to offer...
[]'s
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not changed appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not increased appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like) just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there could be a correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in prices". But he is championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of pulling that unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard to have spent 50 >billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase the debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a bill that either raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted out of office, but
I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and lower taxes on imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day Congress wrests this power back when they tire of the antics that both he and Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a 2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a signature or veto. But I can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds majority to raise taxes despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that only requires a simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference in
numbers is from static or dynamic scoring. Tax Foundation is
probably closer but the whole miserable thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the US as a monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he wouldn't have it any
other way). The "BBB" is just a manifestation of the shortsightedness, hypocrisy, and cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth.
Blocking doesn't change that.
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage
of less than 2%.
How many "totalitarians" are for fewer government regulations and
mandates?
In article <103ep57$25mv2$2@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/24/2025 12:27 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
Check the timeline just after the Washington Monument aluminum pyramid
cap:
It's nuts that the 100 oz pyramid at the top of the Monument was one of
the largest pieces of aluminum ever made at the time.
https://imgur.com/a/Q2CYMoW
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 06:52:55 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
How many "totalitarians" are for fewer government regulations and
mandates?
All of them. They ARE the government, "forever". Note the
biggest, bestist, bustiest bill is all about control over the
population.
You don't need regulations when whatever you say is law. Even
if you do a TACO and you say the opposite the next day.
Practically all of South America. Not the entire population.In
Brazil the vote is mandatory for 18----> <70 year olds and optional
for 16----> 18 year olds and >70.
And there is usually a tie vote, unless one of he candidates
gets > 50% of the valid votes(very rare)
The first two placed go on to the deciding vote. The losing
parties ask their voters to vote on whatever candidate is more aligned
with their principles (or lack of, in the case of right wing parties)
This is to avoid anyone winning the presidency without the
majority in the popular vote. It's hardly a democracy if the one with
less "demo" votes wins...
Still unfair, as all of the press and most social media
support the right wing. Still, occasionally a center or left winger
wins. Examples: Lula in Brazil (Center), Mujica in Uruguay (Center)
and Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela (left and center-left
respectively).
Unlike the US, where it's been right wing vs right wing since forever... I believe Roosevelt was the last center-right POTUS.
On 6/24/2025 5:08 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 5:30 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:00 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/24/2025 4:50 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2TC6Q.123$ivTc.25@fx43.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
President Trump is reducing our taxes.
True-ish. See below.
He is also reducing the prices of virtually everything
It's not clear how this is true. Inflation has not
changed appreciably
since he took office and the supply of materials has not
increased
appreciably since that time. Demand in some sectors is
down, though. A
chain restaurant (I forget which, but Applebees-like)
just reported
higher quarterly revenue after dropping prices, so there
could be a
correction that way. But Trump didn't do that.
including the yearly budget.
Not really accurate to say this is a "reduction in
prices". But he is
championing budget cuts that Congress might or might not
undertake. At
least this time he's waiting for Congress instead of
pulling that
unConstitutional DOGE maneuver.
Here in California the Democrats have worked very hard
to have spent 50
billion more than we had.
If you think that's bad, just wait until you see the
federal deficit
this year. :) The Big Beautiful Bill doesn't increase
the debt ceiling
by $4 trillion for nothing.
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful
bill" will only add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </
sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T
(for the house version, https://taxfoundation.org/
research/all/ federal/big- beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-
plan/).
Trump cannot raise taxes, he can only reduce them.
He can't actually do either unilaterally. He can sign a
bill that either
raises or lowers taxes, though. Even the Big Beautiful
Bill has *some*
tax increases in it.
Practically speaking, one might say he "cannot raise
taxes" in the way
that Bush could not raise taxes without getting voted
out of office, but
I think Trump has more loyal followers than Bush did.
One thing he can apparently do unilaterally is raise and
lower taxes on
imported goods. It would not surprise me if one day
Congress wrests this
power back when they tire of the antics that both he and
Biden engaged
in.
They are raise by the House and I think it takes a
2/4rds vote.
Tax policy changes begin in the House, then go to the
Senate (and maybe
back and forth), then go to the President for a
signature or veto. But I
can't find anything that says they need a 2/3rds
majority to raise taxes
despite a number of Republican efforts to pass such a
thing. And again,
the Big Beautiful Bill does include some tax increases
and it's going
through the Senate under the reconciliation process that
only requires a
simple majority.
It's pathetic and dangerous either way but the difference
in numbers is from static or dynamic scoring. Tax
Foundation is probably closer but the whole miserable
thing is a debacle.
We ought to be ashamed. Not that anyone is. Yet.
I'm ashamed, but it's because the rest of the world sees the
US as a monolithic entity that voted for trump (and he
wouldn't have it any other way). The "BBB" is just a
manifestation of the shortsightedness, hypocrisy, and
cruelty of the maga movement - they're all very proud of it.
That's one view.
I would say there's no substantial improvement over the
equally wretched Democrat majority budget bills signed by
Democrat Presidents over the years.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/timeline-150-years-of-u-s-national-debt/
USAians frequently vote for "change". We don't get it.
Just a continuance of profligacy, inflation and debasement
of our currency.
https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-year-chart
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of
the bell curve.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:40:37 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:30:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of >>the bell curve.
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
Agreed, The right wing NEVER have anything good to offer...
In article <103f58r$28s6c$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
But the DOGE effort was perfectly legal and has precedents.
Finding errors is fine, but not paying money that's already been
allocated violates Article I. Even SCOTUS has been telling them to pay
up.
If I recall, a tax change (or other major legislation) does need 2/3
vote under Senate rules except as a reconciliation item.
I *think* that 3/5ths vote is only required when one side blocks debate
with a filibuster (or threatens to, which seems to be good enough these days). Then 60 Senators vote for cloture and then can easily pass the
bill with a simple majority.
And as we saw over the past months reconciliation bills are extremely >limited in subject area (which obviates many proposed add-on
amendments).
Thanks to Byrd. The sale of our public lands just got taken out of the
Big Beautiful Bill with this mechanism after basically *everyone*
complained.
People see that differently.
The Bureau of Land Mismangement is more a problem than a
solution. And before 1913 16th Amendment, land sales were a
major Federal revenue source. The area and numbers are
gargantuan and have better potential IMHO.
Under the Democrats public lands were not available EVEN to graze
cattle.
There was no mining or drilling for oil or anything
The area and numbers are gargantuan and have better potential IMHO.
On 6/23/2025 9:10 AM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:55:20 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:51 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 21:13:33 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 15:46:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/22/2025 12:00 PM, cyclintom wrote:
My fucking water bill last month was $100 and that was almost entirely from flushing toilets. That, just 15 years ago wouls have been $10.
Mine arrived yesterday. $26.10 for the month. You need to move out of >>>>> that hellhole before your water bills break you!
My last water bill was $80.50. I live about 60 miles south of Tom. We >>>> have different water companies. My water bill has been creeping
upwards since the last few droughts:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_California#Dry_years>
My water bill went up even faster after the CZU fire destroyed a large >>>> part of the water distribution and storage system Aug-Sept 2020:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
Also, only $9.50 of the $80.50 is for water. The rest if for service. >>>> In other words, if the water district delivered no water, my bill
would still be $71 per month.
I suspect that Tom's water bill follows the same pattern, where
reducing his water use will have almost no effect on his $100 monthly >>>> bill.
Dig a well....
--
cheers,
John B.
Sounds simple. It's not. In WI you need a drill permit
first, can't do it yourself, as it requires a licensed well
driller and then there's county water testing, forever.
As with your 'water' bill, the larger expense is on the
other (sewage) side. In rural areas, that's septic tank
clearance and testing (leach fields no longer permitted).
https://odorfreeseptic.com/septic-system-regulations/wisconsin-septic-system-regulations/
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
I lived in New Hampshire for about 4 years. We had a well and septic tank.
A significant number of NH residents still have wells and septic tanks,
and a large percentage of new home built in the state are also
independent of municipal water/sewer.
https://www.des.nh.gov/water/drinking-water/private-wells
https://www.des.nh.gov/news-and-media/blog/september-2019-its-septic-smart-week-time-get-pumped-new-hampshire
The difference here is that the vast majority of wells are well over 200
feet deep.
https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt341/files/documents/2020-01/dwgb-1-2.pdf
Our well was relatively shallow at 150 feet, but we also lived next to a spring-fed pond.
If you consider that a septic tank is literally a few feet below the
surface, having a 4 foot deep septic tank that's 2 feet below the
surface gives plenty of isolation and filtering.
--
Add xx to reply
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
I lived in New Hampshire for about 4 years. We had a well and septic tank.
A significant number of NH residents still have wells and septic tanks,
and a large percentage of new home built in the state are also
independent of municipal water/sewer.
https://www.des.nh.gov/water/drinking-water/private-wells
https://www.des.nh.gov/news-and-media/blog/september-2019-its-septic-smart-week-time-get-pumped-new-hampshire
The difference here is that the vast majority of wells are well over 200
feet deep.
https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt341/files/documents/2020-01/dwgb-1-2.pdf
Our well was relatively shallow at 150 feet, but we also lived next to a spring-fed pond.
If you consider that a septic tank is literally a few feet below the
surface, having a 4 foot deep septic tank that's 2 feet below the
surface gives plenty of isolation and filtering.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap them
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:49:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Salmon which were not endangered no matter what the environmentalist press tells you.
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 12:03:24 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:55:26 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 10:42:01 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 07:15:14 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 08:50:40 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >> >> >
For a bit over 100 years, morning at girlfriend's farm began
by slinging a bucket on a rope into the spring. Her father
ran a steel pipe from deep in the spring to an electric pump
in the farmhouse in 1959. Girlfriend was overjoyed at indoor
plumbing (finally).
All was well until about ten years ago when the State
inspector showed up and cited her for spring water, which is
now banned. She had to have a well drilled ($$) and now has
mineral rich bad tasting well water rather than spring water.
Why is spring water banned?
There's a risk of contamination.
"The Dangers of Drinking Spring Water and Raw Water"
<https://health.clevelandclinic.org/raw-water>
There are a few springs in the area. Two of these are at easily
accessible roadside locations where the general public can obtain
genuine spring water. When they were still functional, I used to see >> >> cars full of large water containers, filling up at the springs. One
had a large concrete basin to make it easier. I used to grab about 3 >> >> gallons when it was convenient.
I don't recall what got into the water. Some people got sick. It was >> >> traced to the roadside springs. The result was the two springs were
eventually closed.
For a time, we had a variety of bugs in water just after the first
rains. The water would wash all the accumulated animal droppings from >> >> the hillsides into the creeks. The local water district usually gets >> >> most of its water from surface sources (river, creek, streams). When >> >> there was a chance of grounwater contamination, they would switch to
well water.
During the CZU fire (2020):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZU_Lightning_Complex_fires>
we were boiling water in some parts of the valley because of ground
water contamination (benzene) from the backflow into melted PVC pipes. >> >> <https://www.slvwd.com/water-quality/pages/long-term-voc-monitoring-post-czu-fire>
Your adjacent reservoirs provide you clean drinking water if peoole up on the surrounding hills aren't running leachfields.
Loch Lomond is the only adjacent reservoir in the area.
<https://www.cityofsantacruz.com/government/city-departments/water/watershed/loch-lomond-recreation>
The reservoir and its water are owned by the city of Santa Cruz. My
area, the San Lorenzo Valley Water District has some rights to its
water, but only for emergencies, such as fighting fires.
Another adjacent reservoir might be Lexington Reservoir:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Reservoir>
The reservoir and its water are owned by the Santa Clara Valley Water
District. To the best of my knowledge, there is no water sharing
pipeline or agreement with the Santa Cruz or San Lorenzo Valley water
districts.
Leach fields have little to do with the large reservoirs unless the
leach fields are too close to the reservoir. The minimum distance
varies with soil conditions and local government regulations. Typical
numbers are between 50 and 200 ft:
"How Much Distance Should Be Between My Septic Tank and Well?"
<https://www.water-doctor.com/blog/distance-between-septic-tank-well/>
The fear of that is why they have to run constant water quality testing. >>Today's automated monitoring and testing equipment is quite efficient.
<https://www.idexx.com/en/water/other-products-services/tecta-water-microbiology-system/>
Because of rains and snow melt from the last 4 years most of the states reservoirs are filled to the highest levels possible. This is why Newsome thought that he could get away with tearing down dams and eoliminating reservoirs supposedly for the
Nice conspiracy theory.
Do you bother to verify your numbers? The last 2.5 years, no 4 years,
have had above normal rainfall in MOST of California. See the
colorful graph:
"Historical Data and Conditions " <https://www.drought.gov/historical-information?state=california&dataset=0&selectedDateUSDM=20250617>
Most of the salmon runs are the small rivers that flow directly into the sea and the Sacramentoi and San Juaquin river systems.
I couldn't find the distribution of salmon in California rivers. This
was the best I could find, which isn't very detailed: <https://casalmon.org/salmon-rivers/>
Apparently, the problem is that lack of both historical and up to date
census data.
Tearing down SMALL dams with fish ladders on them have no effect on pacific salmon.
I hadn't heard that claim. I did some digging on the internet and
found that both sides of that argument are well represented. I could
draw no conclusions from what seems like emotional and political
discussions. Could I trouble you for your definitive sources?
But your inventions simply don't include the facts that a single Salmon can release a thousand roe and larger runs of salmon simply overload the system and the Salmon die of starvation before even reaching the sea.
I also haven't seen that claim. Sources please?
One thing is certain. Restoring the river will not restore the salmon population overnight. Such things take time.
This might be of interest: <https://www.reddit.com/r/megafaunarewilding/comments/1bvyw1x/largest_dam_removal_in_us_history_could_increase/>
"If modeling is correct, as many as 80% more Chinook salmon could
return to the basin within about 30 years after the dams are removed.
Ocean harvest could increase by as much as 46%."
Moreover, you can have your cake and eat it too. You can install slots under the dam that offer no resistance other than increased current to Salmon while retaining the power generation ability of dams in an energy poor area of the state.
Under the dam is silt. No turbine or fish can live in that.
Liebermann, the expert on everything fails yet again.
Thank you. I graciously accept the title of "expert on everything".
On 6/24/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:51:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
rOn Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:17:14 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which
is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well >>>> beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized
ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
Russia won world war II. If Hitler had not invaded Russia we would all
be speaking Trump.
The US was not dragged in "kicking and screaming". They initially
supported Germany, but when it became clear they'd backed the wrong
horse, they decided to send their poor in to secure their loans...
taking a different rout. After Paton trned and headed north Germany folded. Germany had too much self confidence and its generals made too many mistakes because of that. But after the success Normandy the end was inevitable. US day time bombing raids andRussia didn;t win shit. Hitler had so little respect for them he put all of his good armies on the western front. Eisenhower simply outsmarted him, got a landing and rolled them up. The Battle of the Bulge was merely caused by the American tanks
You have no idea.
I'm amidst this new work, my 4th on the subject, and it's
chock full of newly recovered detail. You might enjoy it:
https://www.alibris.com/Stalingrad-Antony-Beevor/book/6300850?qsort=p&matches=211
Without Zhukov, nothing.
Why would tommy risk reading something that proves his fantastic
revisionist history wrong?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 14:04:45 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:40:37 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:30:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of >>>>the bell curve.
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
Agreed, The right wing NEVER have anything good to offer...
[]'s
Except, perhaps, better border control. a cease-fire in the middle
east and lower gasoline prices.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:22:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth.
LOL. Well you got the bit about the US starting the Vietnam
war right, but that's not a "state secret" anymore. No, Trump didn't
publish it, it's not been secret for a looong time.
Whoever supported the massacre of the Vietnamese because
"Vietnam was going to invade amerika" or to "defend amerika" is a
fool
I wonder when they'll make the "real" 9/11 public?
They've already admitted Iraq wasn't behind the implosions and
didn't have weapons of mass destruction so offered absolutely no
threat. And that Bush was Osama's father's business partner. It's a
start.
Blocking doesn't change that.
I'll never block you. I enjoy a good laugh.
Cheer up.
[]'s
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:22:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth.
LOL. Well you got the bit about the US starting the Vietnam
war right, but that's not a "state secret" anymore. No, Trump didn't
publish it, it's not been secret for a looong time.
Whoever supported the massacre of the Vietnamese because
"Vietnam was going to invade amerika" or to "defend amerika" is a
fool
I wonder when they'll make the "real" 9/11 public?
They've already admitted Iraq wasn't behind the implosions and
didn't have weapons of mass destruction so offered absolutely no
threat. And that Bush was Osama's father's business partner. It's a
start.
Blocking doesn't change that.
I'll never block you. I enjoy a good laugh.
Cheer up.
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
On Tue Jun 24 17:00:43 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will only
add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version,
https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/big-beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Only Flunky can tell you what a gill is going to do before it has even been enacted.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:39:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 17:00:43 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will only >>> add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version,
https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/big-beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Only Flunky can tell you what a gill is going to do before it has even been enacted.
I agree. Sounds fishy to me too.
LOL
[]'s
in fact every single economic indicator is flying up.
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a
wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage
of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:53:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a
wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage
of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions
My sources say 41% and falling. Worse than any other president
in the last 50 years.
Please post an URL to your sources.
TY
[]'s
On Wed Jun 25 13:03:27 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 06:52:55 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
How many "totalitarians" are for fewer government regulations and
mandates?
All of them. They ARE the government, "forever". Note the
biggest, bestist, bustiest bill is all about control over the
population.
You don't need regulations when whatever you say is law. Even
if you do a TACO and you say the opposite the next day.
Quote the part of that bill that is aimed AT the citizens and not the government.
On Wed Jun 25 12:57:22 2025 Shadow wrote:
Practically all of South America. Not the entire population.In
Brazil the vote is mandatory for 18----> <70 year olds and optional
for 16----> 18 year olds and >70.
And there is usually a tie vote, unless one of he candidates
gets > 50% of the valid votes(very rare)
The first two placed go on to the deciding vote. The losing
parties ask their voters to vote on whatever candidate is more aligned
with their principles (or lack of, in the case of right wing parties)
This is to avoid anyone winning the presidency without the
majority in the popular vote. It's hardly a democracy if the one with
less "demo" votes wins...
Still unfair, as all of the press and most social media
support the right wing. Still, occasionally a center or left winger
wins. Examples: Lula in Brazil (Center), Mujica in Uruguay (Center)
and Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela (left and center-left
respectively).
Unlike the US, where it's been right wing vs right wing since
forever... I believe Roosevelt was the last center-right POTUS.
In America we are free to vote or not as we please.
That is a strange thing called Freedom which Brazil does not believe in.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:02:17 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 12:57:22 2025 Shadow wrote:
Practically all of South America. Not the entire population.In
Brazil the vote is mandatory for 18----> <70 year olds and optional
for 16----> 18 year olds and >70.
And there is usually a tie vote, unless one of he candidates
gets > 50% of the valid votes(very rare)
The first two placed go on to the deciding vote. The losing
parties ask their voters to vote on whatever candidate is more aligned
with their principles (or lack of, in the case of right wing parties)
This is to avoid anyone winning the presidency without the
majority in the popular vote. It's hardly a democracy if the one with
less "demo" votes wins...
Still unfair, as all of the press and most social media
support the right wing. Still, occasionally a center or left winger
wins. Examples: Lula in Brazil (Center), Mujica in Uruguay (Center)
and Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela (left and center-left
respectively).
Unlike the US, where it's been right wing vs right wing since
forever... I believe Roosevelt was the last center-right POTUS.
In America we are free to vote or not as we please.
But not free to take a discrete piss within 200 years of a
school. I understand, "the freedom to piss your pants". I believe I've
seen Trump enjoy that freedom. Only it was a number two and he was on
a golf course. Ah ... freedom ... so underrated.
That is a strange thing called Freedom which Brazil does not believe in.
The center (and left wing) have proposed making the vote
non-mandatory many times. Unfortunately the right wing don't agree,
and they have the majority in congress and the senate(for the last 60
years). Which is where laws are made.
The left/center have managed to reduce the penalty to a small
fine. 50 years ago you could go to jail for not voting. Unless you had
a fake X-ray "proving" you had bone spurs and were unable to walk to
the polls ....
That's progress.
[]'s
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
Are you unaware that Hitler moved his army into Italy to support that incompetent Musolini? In any case, the German army in Russia was not the finest and they came within a hair's breadth of taking Stalingrad. If they had done that Russia was lost. Andconsider - the US was supplying all of the supplies to the Russian Army to hold out. Without us, they would have had no chance at all.This is ALL a matter of history. You only need to read it.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 13:29:12 -0400, Catrike RyderLegal immigration (both ways) across our Mexican border has
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 14:04:45 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:40:37 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:30:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who
are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of
the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of >>>>> the bell curve.
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
Agreed, The right wing NEVER have anything good to offer...
[]'s
Except, perhaps, better border control. a cease-fire in the middle
east and lower gasoline prices.
Better border control? More Mexican migrated to the States
than came back since the orange abomination took office.
Cease fire? Yep, he announced that and shook hands with
Israel's fascist-in-chief the day before yesterday. Yesteday Israeli
troop lured and killed 36 children in Gaza. Lured with food, killed
with machine guns fire. Average age of the victims? SEVEN. The
biggest. bestist "cease fire" ever. After all, they did cease fire
when they ran out of children...
Check the petroleum prices in the near future.
Remember "monkeys together stronger"
[]'s
On Wed Jun 25 14:48:45 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:22:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth.
LOL. Well you got the bit about the US starting the Vietnam
war right, but that's not a "state secret" anymore. No, Trump didn't
publish it, it's not been secret for a looong time.
Whoever supported the massacre of the Vietnamese because
"Vietnam was going to invade amerika" or to "defend amerika" is a
fool
I wonder when they'll make the "real" 9/11 public?
They've already admitted Iraq wasn't behind the implosions and
didn't have weapons of mass destruction so offered absolutely no
threat. And that Bush was Osama's father's business partner. It's a
start.
Blocking doesn't change that.
I'll never block you. I enjoy a good laugh.
Cheer up.
You made several comments about medical subjects that seemed to be spot on. As I suggested then, you should keep your comments restricted to things you know about rather than Ame4rican politics about which you are completely ignorant. What exactly areyou laughing at? Your comments showing your strong belief in communism? Perhaps you can tell us one country in the world where it has worked?
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring. Tedll us again about how you know how to program and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
On 6/25/2025 3:49 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:53:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a >>>> wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage >>>> of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions
My sources say 41% and falling. Worse than any other president
in the last 50 years.
Please post an URL to your sources.
TY
[]'s
He probably got it from the same website that says trump won the
election with 72% of the vote.
Aggregate polling shows a 47% approval with a negative trend.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:55:11 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:02:17 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 12:57:22 2025 Shadow wrote:
Practically all of South America. Not the entire population.In
Brazil the vote is mandatory for 18----> <70 year olds and optional
for 16----> 18 year olds and >70.
And there is usually a tie vote, unless one of he candidates
gets > 50% of the valid votes(very rare)
The first two placed go on to the deciding vote. The losing
parties ask their voters to vote on whatever candidate is more aligned >>>> with their principles (or lack of, in the case of right wing parties)
This is to avoid anyone winning the presidency without the
majority in the popular vote. It's hardly a democracy if the one with
less "demo" votes wins...
Still unfair, as all of the press and most social media
support the right wing. Still, occasionally a center or left winger
wins. Examples: Lula in Brazil (Center), Mujica in Uruguay (Center)
and Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela (left and center-left
respectively).
Unlike the US, where it's been right wing vs right wing since
forever... I believe Roosevelt was the last center-right POTUS.
In America we are free to vote or not as we please.
But not free to take a discrete piss within 200 years of a
school. I understand, "the freedom to piss your pants". I believe I've
seen Trump enjoy that freedom. Only it was a number two and he was on
a golf course. Ah ... freedom ... so underrated.
That is a strange thing called Freedom which Brazil does not believe in.
The center (and left wing) have proposed making the vote >>non-mandatory many times. Unfortunately the right wing don't agree,
and they have the majority in congress and the senate(for the last 60 >>years). Which is where laws are made.
The left/center have managed to reduce the penalty to a small
fine. 50 years ago you could go to jail for not voting. Unless you had
a fake X-ray "proving" you had bone spurs and were unable to walk to
the polls ....
That's progress.
[]'s
Voting is not mandatory anywhere in the USA....
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:39:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring. Tedll us again about how you know how to program and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
MY boss.. wait, I WAS my boss. Doctors cannot be subordinate
to ANYONE. It's in our oath, We do what we think is correct. Our
obligation is to our patients, but we don't and cannot take orders
from them.
Don't like it, fire us but never give us orders as to what
medication or what procedures to use.
You can sue us if we are wrong ... a general once took me to
court because I refused to salute him. The judge suggested where he
could put his salute. I almost told the judge that he couldn't give proctological prescriptions without a license but decided to keep it
to myself. That judge looked like he was in a very bad mood.
A patient once sued me because I refused to prescribe the
medicine she KNEW was best for her, because she's seen it on TV. The
judge asked me if I wanted her arrested....(I let her go).
As to anyone else, most bosses don't care how or when
management do things, as long as it works and is good for the company.
The only ones that have to worry about bosses are lowly
non-skilled workers. They need to keep an eye on the clock and check
every now and then their bosses don't catch them taking a non-approved
break.
[]'s
On 6/25/2025 2:30 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 13:29:12 -0400, Catrike RyderLegal immigration (both ways) across our Mexican border has
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 14:04:45 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:40:37 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 11:30:30 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:20 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 18:45:17 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
People voted for Trump because the Democrats nominated two
nincompoops.
I can understand that justification. Its easier for people who >>>>>>> are intelectually challenged to vote for just one.
And they got the "greatest, biggest" most senile nincompoop of >>>>>>> the three.
[]'s
Trump appealed to the most malleable demographic from the left side of >>>>>> the bell curve.
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
Agreed, The right wing NEVER have anything good to offer...
[]'s
Except, perhaps, better border control. a cease-fire in the middle
east and lower gasoline prices.
Better border control? More Mexican migrated to the States
than came back since the orange abomination took office.
Cease fire? Yep, he announced that and shook hands with
Israel's fascist-in-chief the day before yesterday. Yesteday Israeli
troop lured and killed 36 children in Gaza. Lured with food, killed
with machine guns fire. Average age of the victims? SEVEN. The
biggest. bestist "cease fire" ever. After all, they did cease fire
when they ran out of children...
Check the petroleum prices in the near future.
Remember "monkeys together stronger"
[]'s
always been high; no news there.
'Border control' and 'lawful entry with permit or visa' are
not 'illegal entry'.
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor,
read her thesis.
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
John, what do you think a Congress is?
On 6/25/2025 4:55 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:39:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring. Tedll us again about how you know how to program and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
MY boss.. wait, I WAS my boss. Doctors cannot be subordinate
to ANYONE. It's in our oath, We do what we think is correct. Our
obligation is to our patients, but we don't and cannot take orders
from them.
Don't like it, fire us but never give us orders as to what
medication or what procedures to use.
You can sue us if we are wrong ... a general once took me to
court because I refused to salute him. The judge suggested where he
could put his salute. I almost told the judge that he couldn't give
proctological prescriptions without a license but decided to keep it
to myself. That judge looked like he was in a very bad mood.
A patient once sued me because I refused to prescribe the
medicine she KNEW was best for her, because she's seen it on TV. The
judge asked me if I wanted her arrested....(I let her go).
As to anyone else, most bosses don't care how or when
management do things, as long as it works and is good for the company.
The only ones that have to worry about bosses are lowly
non-skilled workers. They need to keep an eye on the clock and check
every now and then their bosses don't catch them taking a non-approved
break.
[]'s
+1 on MDs.
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored. Which
has had two huge effects; 1. Better, more conscientious,
experienced MDs have retired early in great numbers and 2.
The sort of person entering Medical Schools has changed.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 16:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor,
read her thesis.
Well, she has a doctorate, so she IS a "doctor". Just not an
MD kind of doctor. I don't mind people being called "doctors". Just
not in art, please.
I hate it that some of her books mention doG. If she was a
teacher she should have known to keep religion out of the classroom.
Imagine being a Buddhist and knowing your teacher will give you a
lower score because you're not.
OTOH, apparently she enjoyed working and didn't abandon her--
profession when her husband became notorious. (not saying that Trump's
wife didn't abandon her profession, but if she didn't she's being very >discrete about it). And she has been good to her husband, standing up
for him to the end.
I snapped because I thought Tom was being snide about Biden's
cancer. Protrate cancer is usually treated with testosterone
inhibitors, and the build-up of natural estrogens without the
counter-balance of testosterone can make the patient quite feminine.
Hence the "Jill". I had no idea he as referring to the wife, I thought
he was talking about the President.
Her thesis?
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2020/12/18/whats-really-behind-the-flap-over-jill-bidens-doctorate/>
Can't be bothered to read it. Sorry. 80 pages of text? Not
about controversies in teaching. No way....
[]'s
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor,
read her thesis.
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the
Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor, read her
thesis.
Although I haven't read it, and won't read it, I think very few posting
here are capable of judging the merit of such a thesis.
Let me rephrase: I think _no_ one posting here is capable.
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the
Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor, read her
thesis.
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the
Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
lol...sure, Jill is the 'gold digger' in the pantheon of First >Ladies....HAH!!!
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor, read her
thesis.
Yup, that's the right you earn when you have a PhD.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills? <https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/> I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat: <https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?" <https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintomJill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the
power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican.
They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be
convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some
humor, read her thesis.
Although I haven't read it, and won't read it, I think very
few posting here are capable of judging the merit of such a
thesis.
Let me rephrase: I think _no_ one posting here is capable.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:19:40 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>And consider - the US was supplying all of the supplies to the Russian Army to hold out. Without us, they would have had no chance at all.This is ALL a matter of history. You only need to read it.
wrote:
Are you unaware that Hitler moved his army into Italy to support that incompetent Musolini? In any case, the German army in Russia was not the finest and they came within a hair's breadth of taking Stalingrad. If they had done that Russia was lost.
Or re-write it. Yes, that would work...
[]'s
On 6/25/2025 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored.
That's a bit overstated.
An example anecdote (that of course one Floridian will
reject): I recently got my 2nd tick bite within a couple
months. Based on the first one, I knew my doctor would want
to prescribe antibiotics against Lyme Disease. He's told me
about a patient who contracted the disease under a different
doctor's care before the test results came back, and who has
permanent heart damage as a result.
Anyway, this doctor is a friend. He obviously enjoys
chatting with me, even with patients waiting. And he gave me
details on the guy with the damage. 25 years old, on a
permanent pacemaker. He was passing out, with a pulse in the
20s. His heart conductivity was messed up by the disease.
He said "They want me to reduce the amount of antibiotic
prescriptions because of increasing resistance. Yeah, that's
a problem, but the solution is to stop putting antibiotics
into animal food! My concern isn't antibiotics in the
population. My concern is _you_, so I'm giving you
antibiotics."
On 6/25/2025 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2025 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored.
That's a bit overstated.
An example anecdote (that of course one Floridian will
reject): I recently got my 2nd tick bite within a couple
months. Based on the first one, I knew my doctor would want
to prescribe antibiotics against Lyme Disease. He's told me
about a patient who contracted the disease under a different
doctor's care before the test results came back, and who has
permanent heart damage as a result.
Anyway, this doctor is a friend. He obviously enjoys
chatting with me, even with patients waiting. And he gave me
details on the guy with the damage. 25 years old, on a
permanent pacemaker. He was passing out, with a pulse in the
20s. His heart conductivity was messed up by the disease.
He said "They want me to reduce the amount of antibiotic
prescriptions because of increasing resistance. Yeah, that's
a problem, but the solution is to stop putting antibiotics
into animal food! My concern isn't antibiotics in the
population. My concern is _you_, so I'm giving you
antibiotics."
I know something about that, unfortunately.
Girlfriend has suffered several (six, maybe seven*) Lyme
infections from gardening. He previous doc always took a
sample and waited for test results (10~14 days) before
prescribing amoxicillin or doxycycline which resulted in
serious pain as the disease progressed. Her new doc
prescribed immediately on her first telephone call and she
arranged the prescription for pickup within an hour.
Girlfriend went in to give a sample the next morning and,
yes, test results were returned positive as she was near the
end of that course.
I happened to read about some new research regarding
piperacillin and found the original paper, read it and
printed a copy for her to hand to her doc, who actually read
it. This is a major victory, only by chance.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.adr9091
Hospital protocols can still be evaded by conscientious MDs
but not always.
*There are so many subvariants of bergdorferi that one--
doesn't develop immunity in any useful sense.
On 6/25/2025 5:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the >>>>>> citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
And don't forget MT. Washington where you are allowed to ride UP the
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires >>>> very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
oh dear gawd...did he really write that?
lol...wow, that isn't is cock-roach brain, that's complete lack of
cognitive function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mountains_(New_England)
"The White Mountains are a mountain range covering about a quarter of
the state of New Hampshire and a small portion of western Maine in the
United States. "
"In all, there are 48 peaks within New Hampshire as well as one (Old
Speck Mountain) in Maine over 4,000 feet (1,200 m), known as the >four-thousand footers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Range
"The Presidential Range is a mountain range located in the White
Mountains of the U.S. state of New Hampshire. It contains the highest
peaks of the Whites, "
"Because of the poor weather conditions, the Presidential Range is often
used for mountaineering training for those who go on to climb some of
the world's highest mountains, including K2 and Everest."
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'.
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent
bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
On Tue Jun 24 15:21:19 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:51:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
rOn Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:17:14 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which
is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well >>>>>> beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized
ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II
kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and
Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
Russia won world war II. If Hitler had not invaded Russia we would all >>>> be speaking Trump.
The US was not dragged in "kicking and screaming". They initially
supported Germany, but when it became clear they'd backed the wrong
horse, they decided to send their poor in to secure their loans...
Russia didn;t win shit. Hitler had so little respect for them he put
all of his good armies on the western front. Eisenhower simply
outsmarted him, got a landing and rolled them up. The Battle of the
Bulge was merely caused by the American tanks taking a different rout.
After Paton trned and headed north Germany folded. Germany had too much
self confidence and its generals made too many mistakes because of
that. But after the success Normandy the end was inevitable. US day
time bombing raids and GB night time raids killed the industrial
capacity of Germany and Germany was alone fighting the entire world.
The German staff had about half the intelligence as any common German on the street.
You have no idea.
I'm amidst this new work, my 4th on the subject, and it's
chock full of newly recovered detail. You might enjoy it:
https://www.alibris.com/Stalingrad-Antony-Beevor/book/6300850?qsort=p&matches!1
Without Zhukov, nothing.
Andrew, Russia surviving Stalingrad turned the war into a two front advancement. This was NOT a case of Russia winning the war but a case of
them being in position to attack Germany on a second front.There was NO habitable area left where Stalingrad stood and the war crimes of Germany
were nothing compared to those of Russia when they turned the front
around. The Russians were understandably angry but to say that they won
WW2 is preposterous.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:35:42 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 14:48:45 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:22:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth.
LOL. Well you got the bit about the US starting the Vietnam
war right, but that's not a "state secret" anymore. No, Trump didn't
publish it, it's not been secret for a looong time.
Whoever supported the massacre of the Vietnamese because
"Vietnam was going to invade amerika" or to "defend amerika" is a
fool
I wonder when they'll make the "real" 9/11 public?
They've already admitted Iraq wasn't behind the implosions and
didn't have weapons of mass destruction so offered absolutely no
threat. And that Bush was Osama's father's business partner. It's a
start.
Blocking doesn't change that.
I'll never block you. I enjoy a good laugh.
Cheer up.
You made several comments about medical subjects that seemed to be spot
on. As I suggested then, you should keep your comments restricted to
things you know about rather than Ame4rican politics about which you are
completely ignorant. What exactly are you laughing at? Your comments
showing your strong belief in communism? Perhaps you can tell us one
country in the world where it has worked?
Communism has never worked and never will.
LOL. Every single means of production/source of income
controlled by a dictatorship? From bicycle tires to frilly panties to tourism?. Every single worker a civil servant? It can't and will not
ever happen. It's a crazy person's dream. If anyone says communism
works, refer them to a psychiatrist.
Not one of the "top dozen" HDI (highest quality of living)
countries is communist. The vast majority are socialist welfare states though.
OTOH very few are right wing. The US is NOT on that list
either...
[]'s
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 06:59:38 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:And don't forget MT. Washington where you are allowed to ride UP the
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>>>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>>>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the >>>>>>> citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your
young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance.
Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they >>>>>> fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap them off. Water
treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires >>>>> very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
oh dear gawd...did he really write that?
lol...wow, that isn't is cock-roach brain, that's complete lack of
cognitive function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mountains_(New_England)
"The White Mountains are a mountain range covering about a quarter of
the state of New Hampshire and a small portion of western Maine in the
United States. "
"In all, there are 48 peaks within New Hampshire as well as one (Old
Speck Mountain) in Maine over 4,000 feet (1,200 m), known as the
four-thousand footers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Range
"The Presidential Range is a mountain range located in the White
Mountains of the U.S. state of New Hampshire. It contains the highest
peaks of the Whites, "
"Because of the poor weather conditions, the Presidential Range is often
used for mountaineering training for those who go on to climb some of
the world's highest mountains, including K2 and Everest."
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'.
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent
bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
mountain but due to the steepness of the road not DOWN.
--
cheers,
John B.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 07:50:54 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2025 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored.
That's a bit overstated.
An example anecdote (that of course one Floridian will
reject): I recently got my 2nd tick bite within a couple
months. Based on the first one, I knew my doctor would want
to prescribe antibiotics against Lyme Disease. He's told me
about a patient who contracted the disease under a different
doctor's care before the test results came back, and who has
permanent heart damage as a result.
Anyway, this doctor is a friend. He obviously enjoys
chatting with me, even with patients waiting. And he gave me
details on the guy with the damage. 25 years old, on a
permanent pacemaker. He was passing out, with a pulse in the
20s. His heart conductivity was messed up by the disease.
He said "They want me to reduce the amount of antibiotic
prescriptions because of increasing resistance. Yeah, that's
a problem, but the solution is to stop putting antibiotics
into animal food! My concern isn't antibiotics in the
population. My concern is _you_, so I'm giving you
antibiotics."
I know something about that, unfortunately.
Girlfriend has suffered several (six, maybe seven*) Lyme
infections from gardening. He previous doc always took a
sample and waited for test results (10~14 days) before
prescribing amoxicillin or doxycycline which resulted in
serious pain as the disease progressed. Her new doc
prescribed immediately on her first telephone call and she
arranged the prescription for pickup within an hour.
Girlfriend went in to give a sample the next morning and,
yes, test results were returned positive as she was near the
end of that course.
I happened to read about some new research regarding
piperacillin and found the original paper, read it and
printed a copy for her to hand to her doc, who actually read
it. This is a major victory, only by chance.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.adr9091
Oh fsck. A cloudflare tracker stopped me in my tracks...
Can't read it.
I was bitten by a tick and got that weird circle around the
bite, so I took ampicillin. Lyme disease is rare here. This was years
before I even studied medicine, the local pharmacist recommended it.
He probably recommended ampicillin for anything "inflamed", though.
Sometimes I guess I'm just lucky.
Our ticks are mostly Amblyomma. The females swell up to the
size of a pea when they're feeding. Just gave the dog ivermectin a few
days ago. She was covered in them.
Hospital protocols can still be evaded by conscientious MDs
but not always.
I heard that in the US you can be fired for not following
protocol, because if you don't the insurance companies can refuse to
pay compensation for any deaths or unfortunate sequellas.
Here in Brazil health insurance was recognized as a scam and
never became popular. If anyone does sue for compensation, they very,
very rarely win. Nobody wants to increase the price of medicine
tenfold just to line the pockets of a few scam-artists. Not even our richie-richie judges.
My father died of medical error. "shrug". So did my mother
"another shrug". I did warn them NOT to take out health plans. To
consult with University professors. Instead they were seen by doctors
with the ink still wet on their diplomas.
[]'s
*There are so many subvariants of bergdorferi that one
doesn't develop immunity in any useful sense.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 06:59:38 -0400, zen cyclethem off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>>>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>>>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the >>>>>>> citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
And don't forget MT. Washington where you are allowed to ride UP the
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires >>>>> very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
oh dear gawd...did he really write that?
lol...wow, that isn't is cock-roach brain, that's complete lack of
cognitive function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mountains_(New_England)
"The White Mountains are a mountain range covering about a quarter of
the state of New Hampshire and a small portion of western Maine in the
United States. "
"In all, there are 48 peaks within New Hampshire as well as one (Old
Speck Mountain) in Maine over 4,000 feet (1,200 m), known as the
four-thousand footers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Range
"The Presidential Range is a mountain range located in the White
Mountains of the U.S. state of New Hampshire. It contains the highest
peaks of the Whites, "
"Because of the poor weather conditions, the Presidential Range is often
used for mountaineering training for those who go on to climb some of
the world's highest mountains, including K2 and Everest."
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'.
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent
bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
mountain but due to the steepness of the road not DOWN.
--
cheers,
John B.
John B. <jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 06:59:38 -0400, zen cycleThe road is for tourist by looks of things and this being the US cars 1st hence the Auto road name, it’s not the gradients but that they are priories are for cars who pay for the privilege to use the private road, I believe there are gravel roads that one could ride down.
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:And don't forget MT. Washington where you are allowed to ride UP the
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those >>>>>>>> helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>>>>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>>>>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the >>>>>>>> citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your >>>>>>> young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. >>>>>>> Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they >>>>>>> fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap them off. Water
treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always >>>>>> build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires >>>>>> very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
oh dear gawd...did he really write that?
lol...wow, that isn't is cock-roach brain, that's complete lack of
cognitive function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mountains_(New_England)
"The White Mountains are a mountain range covering about a quarter of
the state of New Hampshire and a small portion of western Maine in the
United States. "
"In all, there are 48 peaks within New Hampshire as well as one (Old
Speck Mountain) in Maine over 4,000 feet (1,200 m), known as the
four-thousand footers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Range
"The Presidential Range is a mountain range located in the White
Mountains of the U.S. state of New Hampshire. It contains the highest
peaks of the Whites, "
"Because of the poor weather conditions, the Presidential Range is often >>> used for mountaineering training for those who go on to climb some of
the world's highest mountains, including K2 and Everest."
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to >>>> show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that >>>> is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'. >>>
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent >>>> bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
mountain but due to the steepness of the road not DOWN.
--
cheers,
John B.
Bikes are only allowed once a year or so for the hill climb, and even then have to car back down.
Roger Merriman
On 6/26/2025 1:30 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 07:50:54 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2025 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored.
That's a bit overstated.
An example anecdote (that of course one Floridian will
reject): I recently got my 2nd tick bite within a couple
months. Based on the first one, I knew my doctor would want
to prescribe antibiotics against Lyme Disease. He's told me
about a patient who contracted the disease under a different
doctor's care before the test results came back, and who has
permanent heart damage as a result.
Anyway, this doctor is a friend. He obviously enjoys
chatting with me, even with patients waiting. And he gave me
details on the guy with the damage. 25 years old, on a
permanent pacemaker. He was passing out, with a pulse in the
20s. His heart conductivity was messed up by the disease.
He said "They want me to reduce the amount of antibiotic
prescriptions because of increasing resistance. Yeah, that's
a problem, but the solution is to stop putting antibiotics
into animal food! My concern isn't antibiotics in the
population. My concern is _you_, so I'm giving you
antibiotics."
I know something about that, unfortunately.
Girlfriend has suffered several (six, maybe seven*) Lyme
infections from gardening. He previous doc always took a
sample and waited for test results (10~14 days) before
prescribing amoxicillin or doxycycline which resulted in
serious pain as the disease progressed. Her new doc
prescribed immediately on her first telephone call and she
arranged the prescription for pickup within an hour.
Girlfriend went in to give a sample the next morning and,
yes, test results were returned positive as she was near the
end of that course.
I happened to read about some new research regarding
piperacillin and found the original paper, read it and
printed a copy for her to hand to her doc, who actually read
it. This is a major victory, only by chance.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.adr9091
Oh fsck. A cloudflare tracker stopped me in my tracks...
Can't read it.
I was bitten by a tick and got that weird circle around the
bite, so I took ampicillin. Lyme disease is rare here. This was years
before I even studied medicine, the local pharmacist recommended it.
He probably recommended ampicillin for anything "inflamed", though.
Sometimes I guess I'm just lucky.
Our ticks are mostly Amblyomma. The females swell up to the
size of a pea when they're feeding. Just gave the dog ivermectin a few
days ago. She was covered in them.
Hospital protocols can still be evaded by conscientious MDs
but not always.
I heard that in the US you can be fired for not following
protocol, because if you don't the insurance companies can refuse to
pay compensation for any deaths or unfortunate sequellas.
Here in Brazil health insurance was recognized as a scam and
never became popular. If anyone does sue for compensation, they very,
very rarely win. Nobody wants to increase the price of medicine
tenfold just to line the pockets of a few scam-artists. Not even our
richie-richie judges.
My father died of medical error. "shrug". So did my mother
"another shrug". I did warn them NOT to take out health plans. To
consult with University professors. Instead they were seen by doctors
with the ink still wet on their diplomas.
[]'s
*There are so many subvariants of bergdorferi that one
doesn't develop immunity in any useful sense.
To find the paper, search authors:
Maegan E. Gabby , Abey Bandara, L. M. Outrata , Osamudiamen
Ebohon , and Brandon L. Jutras
and/or subjects:
Bergdorferi, Lyme, Piperacillin
Pub date is 23 April, 2025.--
It's an interesting paper, unless you are in an area without
Lyme disease.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 07:39:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
PS The mayor in the next town died of Babesiosis, The
diagnosis was post-mortem after months in hospital.Thank doG, that
doesn't exist in our region either. LOL.
[]'s
--
Pub date is 23 April, 2025.
It's an interesting paper, unless you are in an area without
Lyme disease.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 07:39:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/26/2025 1:30 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 07:50:54 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2025 6:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored.
That's a bit overstated.
An example anecdote (that of course one Floridian will
reject): I recently got my 2nd tick bite within a couple
months. Based on the first one, I knew my doctor would want
to prescribe antibiotics against Lyme Disease. He's told me
about a patient who contracted the disease under a different
doctor's care before the test results came back, and who has
permanent heart damage as a result.
Anyway, this doctor is a friend. He obviously enjoys
chatting with me, even with patients waiting. And he gave me
details on the guy with the damage. 25 years old, on a
permanent pacemaker. He was passing out, with a pulse in the
20s. His heart conductivity was messed up by the disease.
He said "They want me to reduce the amount of antibiotic
prescriptions because of increasing resistance. Yeah, that's
a problem, but the solution is to stop putting antibiotics
into animal food! My concern isn't antibiotics in the
population. My concern is _you_, so I'm giving you
antibiotics."
I know something about that, unfortunately.
Girlfriend has suffered several (six, maybe seven*) Lyme
infections from gardening. He previous doc always took a
sample and waited for test results (10~14 days) before
prescribing amoxicillin or doxycycline which resulted in
serious pain as the disease progressed. Her new doc
prescribed immediately on her first telephone call and she
arranged the prescription for pickup within an hour.
Girlfriend went in to give a sample the next morning and,
yes, test results were returned positive as she was near the
end of that course.
I happened to read about some new research regarding
piperacillin and found the original paper, read it and
printed a copy for her to hand to her doc, who actually read
it. This is a major victory, only by chance.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.adr9091
Oh fsck. A cloudflare tracker stopped me in my tracks...
Can't read it.
I was bitten by a tick and got that weird circle around the
bite, so I took ampicillin. Lyme disease is rare here. This was years
before I even studied medicine, the local pharmacist recommended it.
He probably recommended ampicillin for anything "inflamed", though.
Sometimes I guess I'm just lucky.
Our ticks are mostly Amblyomma. The females swell up to the
size of a pea when they're feeding. Just gave the dog ivermectin a few
days ago. She was covered in them.
Hospital protocols can still be evaded by conscientious MDs
but not always.
I heard that in the US you can be fired for not following
protocol, because if you don't the insurance companies can refuse to
pay compensation for any deaths or unfortunate sequellas.
Here in Brazil health insurance was recognized as a scam and
never became popular. If anyone does sue for compensation, they very,
very rarely win. Nobody wants to increase the price of medicine
tenfold just to line the pockets of a few scam-artists. Not even our
richie-richie judges.
My father died of medical error. "shrug". So did my mother
"another shrug". I did warn them NOT to take out health plans. To
consult with University professors. Instead they were seen by doctors
with the ink still wet on their diplomas.
[]'s
*There are so many subvariants of bergdorferi that one
doesn't develop immunity in any useful sense.
To find the paper, search authors:
Maegan E. Gabby , Abey Bandara, L. M. Outrata , Osamudiamen
Ebohon , and Brandon L. Jutras
and/or subjects:
Bergdorferi, Lyme, Piperacillin
Aha, that worked. Don't think I live in a Lyme disease region.
The tick-bite with the classic ring happened in Rio de Janeiro. Which
is also a Lyme disease free region.
According to the "authorities".
Not that I trust the authorities. I have
Leishmanisis(brasiliensis). I'm 100% sure of it. Two of my cats died
of Leishmaniosis. I had the classic lesion but a very stupid plastic
surgeon cut it out instead of just biopsing the border as requested.
So the only way to confirm it is with Montenegro's
subcutaneous reaction. Which the government won't let me do, because I
live in a "Leishmaniosis free region". Catch 22.
Bolsonaro fired just about every specialist that studied these
things. And the guys Lula hired (by eliminatory exams) just don't have
the necessary experience. If the books say it doesn't exist, it
doesn't. Until they realize that the books are sometimes wrong. But
another Bolsonaro will get in and fire them before they get that much experience.
PS The mayor in the next town died of Babesiosis, The
diagnosis was post-mortem after months in hospital.Thank doG, that
doesn't exist in our region either. LOL.
[]'s
Pub date is 23 April, 2025.
It's an interesting paper, unless you are in an area without
Lyme disease.
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 14:21:28 -0300, Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 07:39:52 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
PS The mayor in the next town died of Babesiosis, The
diagnosis was post-mortem after months in hospital.Thank doG, that
doesn't exist in our region either. LOL.
[]'s
Just came across this (double infections):
<https://www.bioline.org.br/pdf?oc03074
if you get a bad cert
<https://www.scielo.br/j/mioc/a/qgGzwswDwsKqZWmt3mt4fnj/?format=pdf>
Public health at it's best.
Simultaneus infections by TWO pathogens "that don't exist in
the region" (they did then, Lula was President)in two patients.
Lyme disease PLUS Babesiosis.
Those boys should have played the lottery.
[]'s
Pub date is 23 April, 2025.
It's an interesting paper, unless you are in an area without
Lyme disease.
On 6/27/2025 8:12 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 06:59:38 -0400, zen cycleThe road is for tourist by looks of things and this being the US cars 1st
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:And don't forget MT. Washington where you are allowed to ride UP the
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those >>>>>>>>> helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>>>>>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>>>>>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the >>>>>>>>> citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your >>>>>>>> young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. >>>>>>>> Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they >>>>>>>> fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap them off. Water >>>>>>>> treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do >>>>>>>> with the brown water?
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always >>>>>>> build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires >>>>>>> very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
oh dear gawd...did he really write that?
lol...wow, that isn't is cock-roach brain, that's complete lack of
cognitive function.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mountains_(New_England)
"The White Mountains are a mountain range covering about a quarter of
the state of New Hampshire and a small portion of western Maine in the >>>> United States. "
"In all, there are 48 peaks within New Hampshire as well as one (Old
Speck Mountain) in Maine over 4,000 feet (1,200 m), known as the
four-thousand footers."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Range
"The Presidential Range is a mountain range located in the White
Mountains of the U.S. state of New Hampshire. It contains the highest
peaks of the Whites, "
"Because of the poor weather conditions, the Presidential Range is often >>>> used for mountaineering training for those who go on to climb some of
the world's highest mountains, including K2 and Everest."
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to >>>>> show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that >>>>> is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'. >>>>
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent >>>>> bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
mountain but due to the steepness of the road not DOWN.
--
cheers,
John B.
hence the Auto road name, it’s not the gradients but that they are priories
are for cars who pay for the privilege to use the private road, I believe
there are gravel roads that one could ride down.
Nope, there's only the one "road". All other paths up/down are hiking
trails, not navigable by bicycle - well, maybe if you don't mind walking
down 40% grades carrying the bike over boulders.
If you go to Strava and look at the heat maps around mt washington,
you'll see _no_ cycling activity other than the auto road.
Bikes are only allowed once a year or so for the hill climb, and even then >> have to car back down.
Roger Merriman
On 6/25/2025 10:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the
Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor, read her
thesis.
Although I haven't read it, and won't read it, I think very few
posting here are capable of judging the merit of such a thesis.
Let me rephrase: I think _no_ one posting here is capable.
It would have been a B high school theme paper.
And not only; read
Sebastian Gorka's thesis, it's equally trivial.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:59:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million.
Me too. Hope you didn't pay the US$10.000 they "need" to
examine your (practically empty) curriculum.
On 6/29/2025 3:29 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I often see you use medical terms but not very well, ...
Ah! In our discussion group we have people who are no training as
physicians but who claim ability to grade a physician's use of medical
terms.
We've seen that we have people who have not completed bachelor's
degrees, yet claim the ability to grade a doctoral thesis.
Of course, we have a person with no training in economics, but who
claims to have lectured Janet Yellen on economics. And who has held
forth on military history, genetics, metallurgy, religion, climatology, >geography, biology and I forget what else.
It's interesting that person almost always disagrees with everyone else
here, as well as with the rest of the world. But somehow that leads him
to conclude that the rest of the world is wrong, and only he is right.
On Mon Jun 23 15:27:36 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:59:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million.
Me too. Hope you didn't pay the US$10.000 they "need" to
examine your (practically empty) curriculum.
MD's are expected to stay updated their entire lives and be ready to practice at any moment the need arises. And yet you seem very surprised that an electronics engineer would be the same. I often see you use medical terms but not very well, though Iusually interpret that as a language problem. Portuguese does not directly cross translate to English. Though since most modern medicine comes from the US one would expect you to be familiar with the terminology.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2025 19:29:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 15:27:36 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:59:57 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I am being offered and almost continuous string of jobs with salaries starting near $180,000/year growing to a quarter of a million.
Me too. Hope you didn't pay the US$10.000 they "need" to
examine your (practically empty) curriculum.
MD's are expected to stay updated their entire lives and be ready to practice at any moment the need arises.
And yet you seem very surprised that an electronics engineer would be the same.
I often see you use medical terms but not very well, though I usually interpret that as a language problem. Portuguese does not directly cross translate to English.
Though since most modern medicine comes from the US one would expect you to be familiar with the terminology.
I am. I just avoid using it in front of patients. Rule in
medicine is NEVER talk in technical terms to a patient.
[]'s
PS Most modern medicine does NOT come from the US. Both China
and the EU produce more research data. Stuff from the US is usually
biased, and sponsored by Big Pharma.
In article <ij5o5k1codq4r4lt9rubv3bh78n1dcjs1e@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
The Democrats are still locked in the "we've got nothing better to
offer" mode.
It is a testament to the disarray within the Democratic party that they
can't find someone better than Trump. It's an incredibly low bar and
yet... what do they have? Newsom? Pfft. I know what Clay Davis would
say.
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in
employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market" <https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
The media are being completely silent about the successes of Trump.
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market" <https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market" <https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
On 7/18/2025 1:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market"
<https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
On 7/18/2025 1:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market"
<https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 07:33:34 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 7/18/2025 1:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market"
<https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
Look at the section titles "Change by Industry". The table shows
drops in employment in:
Financial activities
Professional and business activities
Educational and health services
All the other private sector employment show increases.
Under the sections "About this report - Technical notes, FAQs",
there's quite a bit on how they massage the numbers, but almost
nothing on where they obtain the employee head counts. They do
indicate that it does NOT come from or track the Burro of Laborious Statistics monthly reports.
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm> (July 3, 2025) <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf> (PDF version with
graphs).
There probably is some useful information hiding among all those
numbers. I'll dig for it some other time.
I did find one interesting item:
"Government employment rose by 73,000 in June. Employment in state
government increased by 47,000, largely in education (+40,000).
Employment in local government education continued to trend up
(+23,000). Job losses continued in federal government (-7,000), where employment is down by 69,000 since reaching a recent peak in January. (Employees on paid leave or receiving ongoing severance pay are
counted as employed in the establishment survey.)"
This rather looks like the victims of the DOGE's job massacres are
moving to state and local government jobs. Hmmm...
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm> (July 3, 2025) ><https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf> (PDF version with
graphs).
(...)
"Government employment rose by 73,000 in June. Employment in state
government increased by 47,000, largely in education (+40,000).
Employment in local government education continued to trend up
(+23,000). Job losses continued in federal government (-7,000), where >employment is down by 69,000 since reaching a recent peak in January. >(Employees on paid leave or receiving ongoing severance pay are
counted as employed in the establishment survey.)"
This rather looks like the victims of the DOGE's job massacres are
moving to state and local government jobs. Hmmm...
There are several ways to measure employment and
unemployment, each flawed in their own way:
https://mediacenter.adp.com/2025-07-02-ADP-National-Employment-Report-Private-Sector-Employment-Shed-33,000-Jobs-in-June-Annual-Pay-was-Up-4-4
https://get.ycharts.com/resources/blog/june-adp-report-vs-jobs-report/
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 11:55:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
(chomp)
There are several ways to measure employment and
unemployment, each flawed in their own way:
https://mediacenter.adp.com/2025-07-02-ADP-National-Employment-Report-Private-Sector-Employment-Shed-33,000-Jobs-in-June-Annual-Pay-was-Up-4-4
https://get.ycharts.com/resources/blog/june-adp-report-vs-jobs-report/
Yep. I just posted another comment about what happens when federal
employees are collecting severance pay. The Burro of Laborious
Statistics counts laid off employees as being employed. I don't know
how the ADP handles layoffs. I tried to calculate a typical severance
pay amount and length of time to collect. Too much work.
On 7/19/2025 12:15 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 11:55:53 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
(chomp)
There are several ways to measure employment and
unemployment, each flawed in their own way:
https://mediacenter.adp.com/2025-07-02-ADP-National-
Employment-Report-Private-Sector-Employment-Shed-33,000-
Jobs-in-June-Annual-Pay-was-Up-4-4
https://get.ycharts.com/resources/blog/june-adp-report-
vs-jobs-report/
Yep. I just posted another comment about what happens
when federal
employees are collecting severance pay. The Burro of
Laborious
Statistics counts laid off employees as being employed. I
don't know
how the ADP handles layoffs. I tried to calculate a
typical severance
pay amount and length of time to collect. Too much work.
For a good long while I followed the BLS number of people
who paid payroll tax last month. That's as hard a number as
possible but the data is no longer published.
On 6/25/2025 3:49 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:53:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a >>> wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage >>> of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions
My sources say 41% and falling. Worse than any other president
in the last 50 years.
Please post an URL to your sources.
TY
[]'s
He probably got it from the same website that says trump won the
election with 72% of the vote.
Aggregate polling shows a 47% approval with a negative trend.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 16:02:16 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 6/25/2025 3:49 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:53:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a >>>> wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage >>>> of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions
My sources say 41% and falling. Worse than any other president
in the last 50 years.
Please post an URL to your sources.
TY
[]'s
He probably got it from the same website that says trump won the
election with 72% of the vote.
Aggregate polling shows a 47% approval with a negative trend.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-rating
I knew about the negative trend, but I thought his approval
was lower than that..
I just saw this:
//
Trump had a 41% average approval rating during his first term, the
lowest of any post-World War II president,
//
(Obama has the highest approval - but that's obviously OT and
might possibly irritate Tom so I'll just mention it as a curiosity).
I was mistaking 1st for second(and LAST) term, and that was
where I got the 41% from.
I stand corrected.
On 6/25/2025 1:53 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a
wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage
of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions.
Wow. The power of fantasy is strong in this one! ;-)
I know this is futile, but: Sources, Tom?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
On 6/25/2025 3:37 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:39:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 17:00:43 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
<sarcasm> that's ok, the CBO projects the "big beautiful bill" will only >>> add $2.8 trillion, so it's covered </sarcasm>
The Tax Foundation is more kind, predicting only 1.7T (for the house
version,
https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/big-beautiful-bill-house-gop-tax-plan/).
Only Flunky can tell you what a gill is going to do before it has even been enacted.
I agree. Sounds fishy to me too.
LOL
[]'s
By that "logic", tommy admits he's full of shit
while I can assoed to live
On Wed Jun 25 17:47:08 2025 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in
turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
I'm trying to figure you out John. Is it your claim that the President isn't elected by the people?
I also don't unens
rOn Sat, 19 Jul 2025 19:36:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 17:47:08 2025 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in >>> >> turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
I'm trying to figure you out John. Is it your claim that the President isn't elected by the people?
And you live and vote in the U.S. and don't know that it is not
necessary to get a majority of the votes to be elected? Nore, that
Athens, Greece invented the democratic system of choosing a leader?
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 22:34:50 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
rOn Sat, 19 Jul 2025 19:36:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 17:47:08 2025 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in >>>>>> turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population? >>>>>
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
I'm trying to figure you out John. Is it your claim that the President isn't elected by the people?
And you live and vote in the U.S. and don't know that it is not
necessary to get a majority of the votes to be elected? Nore, that
Athens, Greece invented the democratic system of choosing a leader?
In Brazil the President is always elected by the majority of
the people. Usually not the best candidate, as the media ( "social",
TV, magazines and newspapers) are all far-right wing and the states
and municipalities are not allowed to teach politics at schools.
In America quite often the elected President receives less
votes than the candidate he "defeated". So no, America is NOT a
democracy..
We have some things in common though. The right wing's
tendency to censor free speech and plan coups.
"Greg News" was cancelled by political pressure from
Bolsonaro. It was a comedy show that showed all the scandals in his government. In fact, the most popular political show with an audience
of millions. If you wanted to know the details of any scandal, you
turned on Greg News, not "our" Fox "News".
Something like Stephen Colbert's show:
<https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/18/cbs-cancels-stephen-colbert-00462089>
Land of the free (speech)? LOL.
No anymore.
[]'s
On 6/25/2025 5:13 PM, Shadow wrote:And consider - the US was supplying all of the supplies to the Russian Army to hold out. Without us, they would have had no chance at all.This is ALL a matter of history. You only need to read it.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:19:40 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Are you unaware that Hitler moved his army into Italy to support that incompetent Musolini? In any case, the German army in Russia was not the finest and they came within a hair's breadth of taking Stalingrad. If they had done that Russia was lost.
Or re-write it. Yes, that would work...
[]'s
been there, done that, got the legislation....
https://time.com/6299290/florida-slavery-curriculum-college-board-controversy/
"The most controversial line in the guidelines, approved July 19, says: ?Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some
instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.?"
On 7/20/2025 7:38 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 22:34:50 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
rOn Sat, 19 Jul 2025 19:36:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 17:47:08 2025 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in >>>>>>> turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country >>>>>>> appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population? >>>>>>
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
I'm trying to figure you out John. Is it your claim that the President isn't elected by the people?
And you live and vote in the U.S. and don't know that it is not
necessary to get a majority of the votes to be elected? Nore, that
Athens, Greece invented the democratic system of choosing a leader?
In Brazil the President is always elected by the majority of
the people. Usually not the best candidate, as the media ( "social",
TV, magazines and newspapers) are all far-right wing and the states
and municipalities are not allowed to teach politics at schools.
In America quite often the elected President receives less
votes than the candidate he "defeated". So no, America is NOT a
democracy..
We have some things in common though. The right wing's
tendency to censor free speech and plan coups.
"Greg News" was cancelled by political pressure from
Bolsonaro. It was a comedy show that showed all the scandals in his
government. In fact, the most popular political show with an audience
of millions. If you wanted to know the details of any scandal, you
turned on Greg News, not "our" Fox "News".
Something like Stephen Colbert's show:
<https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/18/cbs-cancels-stephen-colbert-00462089>
Land of the free (speech)? LOL.
No anymore.
[]'s
We agree on two points.
1. USA is not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
2. Elections never select for 'the best candidate'. They
select from among the choices on the ballot. The challenge
is not to replace Mother Theresa, it's to pick out the
cleanest dirty shirt in the pile.
On Thu Jun 26 08:50:07 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:And consider - the US was supplying all of the supplies to the Russian Army to hold out. Without us, they would have had no chance at all.This is ALL a matter of history. You only need to read it.
On 6/25/2025 5:13 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:19:40 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Are you unaware that Hitler moved his army into Italy to support that incompetent Musolini? In any case, the German army in Russia was not the finest and they came within a hair's breadth of taking Stalingrad. If they had done that Russia was lost.
Or re-write it. Yes, that would work...
[]'s
been there, done that, got the legislation....
https://time.com/6299290/florida-slavery-curriculum-college-board-controversy/
"The most controversial line in the guidelines, approved July 19, says:
?Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some
instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.?"
If there's one thing that a slave should not do it is learn things from which they may gain personal benefits.
Tell me Flunky, wasn't there a war fought over that?
On 7/20/2025 7:38 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 22:34:50 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:
rOn Sat, 19 Jul 2025 19:36:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 17:47:08 2025 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in >>>>>>> turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country >>>>>>> appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population? >>>>>>
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
I'm trying to figure you out John. Is it your claim that the President isn't elected by the people?
And you live and vote in the U.S. and don't know that it is not
necessary to get a majority of the votes to be elected? Nore, that
Athens, Greece invented the democratic system of choosing a leader?
In Brazil the President is always elected by the majority of
the people. Usually not the best candidate, as the media ( "social",
TV, magazines and newspapers) are all far-right wing and the states
and municipalities are not allowed to teach politics at schools.
In America quite often the elected President receives less
votes than the candidate he "defeated". So no, America is NOT a
democracy..
We have some things in common though. The right wing's
tendency to censor free speech and plan coups.
"Greg News" was cancelled by political pressure from
Bolsonaro. It was a comedy show that showed all the scandals in his
government. In fact, the most popular political show with an audience
of millions. If you wanted to know the details of any scandal, you
turned on Greg News, not "our" Fox "News".
Something like Stephen Colbert's show:
<https://www.politico.com/news/2025/07/18/cbs-cancels-stephen-colbert-00462089>
Land of the free (speech)? LOL.
No anymore.
[]'s
We agree on two points.
1. USA is not a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
2. Elections never select for 'the best candidate'. They
select from among the choices on the ballot. The challenge
is not to replace Mother Theresa, it's to pick out the
cleanest dirty shirt in the pile.
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-grandfather-ice-guatemala/
I feel safer already.
"this page is not available in your country"
In article <mqoq7kh9h2spu3qmdj7nds763cs0a0cbca@4ax.com>,
Shadow <Sh@dow.br> wrote:
"this page is not available in your country"
D'oh. You found it at The Guardian, but here's an archive.today link for
it: https://archive.ph/4wLeK
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-grandfather-ice-guatemala/
I feel safer already.
rOn Sat, 19 Jul 2025 19:36:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 17:47:08 2025 John B. wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:45:55 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 20:13:57 2025 John B. wrote:
But "democracy's" from the Greek days have appointed "leaders" who, in >> >> turn, designed a "master leader". In fact does any other country
appoint an ultimate leader by an election of the entire population?
John, what do you think a Congress is?
What part of "an ultimate leader by an election of the entire
population?" is it that you don't understand?
I'm trying to figure you out John. Is it your claim that the President isn't elected by the people?
And you live and vote in the U.S. and don't know that it is not
necessary to get a majority of the votes to be elected? Nore, that
Athens, Greece invented the democratic system of choosing a leader?
I also don't unens
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 11:55:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
(chomp)
There are several ways to measure employment and
unemployment, each flawed in their own way:
https://mediacenter.adp.com/2025-07-02-ADP-National-Employment-Report-Private-Sector-Employment-Shed-33,000-Jobs-in-June-Annual-Pay-was-Up-4-4
https://get.ycharts.com/resources/blog/june-adp-report-vs-jobs-report/
Yep. I just posted another comment about what happens when federal
employees are collecting severance pay. The Burro of Laborious
Statistics counts laid off employees as being employed. I don't know
how the ADP handles layoffs. I tried to calculate a typical severance
pay amount and length of time to collect. Too much work.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2025 15:08:39 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>And consider - the US was supplying all of the supplies to the Russian Army to hold out. Without us, they would have had no chance at all.This is ALL a matter of history. You only need to read it.
wrote:
On Thu Jun 26 08:50:07 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:13 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:19:40 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Are you unaware that Hitler moved his army into Italy to support that incompetent Musolini? In any case, the German army in Russia was not the finest and they came within a hair's breadth of taking Stalingrad. If they had done that Russia was lost.
Or re-write it. Yes, that would work...
[]'s
been there, done that, got the legislation....
https://time.com/6299290/florida-slavery-curriculum-college-board-controversy/
"The most controversial line in the guidelines, approved July 19, says:
?Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some
instances, could be applied for their personal benefit.?"
If there's one thing that a slave should not do it is learn things from which they may gain personal benefits.
I know. Trump said the same about his imported Mar-a-Cago
employees.
Tell me Flunky, wasn't there a war fought over that?
Yes, and the slaves lost.
[]'s
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-grandfather-ice-
guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-shot-nyc-park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic, entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New York and
has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December 2024
and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal-officer-shot-by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your
instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal career
criminal with a deportation order.
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather-ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an
80 year old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-
shot-nyc-park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic,
entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in
2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in
New York and has an active warrant for missing a court
date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in
December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal-
officer-shot-by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also
wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a
history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common,
from your instance above to a series of judges not holding
this illegal career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown- grandfather-
ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 year
old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent- shot-nyc-
park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic, entered
the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New York
and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of the cases." >>>
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December 2024
and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal- officer-shot-
by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted on a
kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of felony
arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your
instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal career
criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50-years-on-death-row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than
an 80 year old in this country legally with no criminal
record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-
shot-nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican
Republic, entered the country illegally in Arizona from
Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence
in New York and has an active warrant for missing a
court date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in
December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January
2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal-
officer-shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is
also wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and
has a history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common,
from your instance above to a series of judges not
holding this illegal career criminal with a deportation
order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50-
years-on-death-row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:48:04 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 11:23:45 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<https://www.ice.gov/remove/statistics>
ICE preferes "removals" over "deportations".
I'm having a difficult time with the bureucratic terms. I did manage
to find this:
"ICE conducts removal flights May 17 (2023)"
<https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-conducts-removal-flights-may-17>
"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted multiple
removal flights today, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and
Israel, as part of dozens of flights conducted each week."
Notice that Israel is included in the removal (deportation) countries.
<https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnualReportFY2022.pdf>
In the tables starting on Page 69, it shows that:
FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022
52 22 18
Israeli citizens were removed (deported).
Whether they were Jews, Arabs or others is unknown.
Jeff what is going on with you?
Quite a bit is happening with me. Do you want an AI generated
summary?
ICE is deporting criminals. And it is between 800 and 1000 a day. Compare that with the 10,000 a day that entered FROM the start of the Obama administration to the end of the Biden administration.
You didn't read what was asked and what I wrote. I was asked by
Shadow (in the part that you trimmed). This has nothing to do with
Obama or Biden:
"That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)"
BTW, nice try at diverting the discussion.
On 6/23/2025 11:48 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 11:23:45 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<https://www.ice.gov/remove/statistics>
ICE preferes "removals" over "deportations".
I'm having a difficult time with the bureucratic terms. I did manage
to find this:
"ICE conducts removal flights May 17 (2023)"
<https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-conducts-removal-flights-may-17>
"U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted multiple
removal flights today, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and
Israel, as part of dozens of flights conducted each week."
Notice that Israel is included in the removal (deportation) countries.
<https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnualReportFY2022.pdf>
In the tables starting on Page 69, it shows that:
FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022
52 22 18
Israeli citizens were removed (deported).
Whether they were Jews, Arabs or others is unknown.
Mexico City, he bought a house there to stay in while taking care of his elderly father. His home was not broken into and he hasn't been held up on the street.Jeff what is going on with you? ICE is deporting criminals. And it is between 800 and 1000 a day. Compare that with the 10,000 a day that entered FROM the start of the Obama administration to the end of the Biden administration.
I have told you what my Mexican/Ameroican neighbor has said about what was actually happening but apparently this group wants to pretend that actual eye witnesses don't know anything. Because of the almost complete disappearance of major crime in
No one has assaultged his father or the caregivers.
Stop telling us about things you don't know about because Democratws want to portray Obama as the greatest President ever.
Large area, in which many things are true at the same time.
ICE is indeed deporting criminals.
ICE are also deporting people who have no criminal history
beyond illegal entry.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/youre-acting-like-criminals-owner-yells-at-ice-agents-raiding-his-torrance-car-wash/
ICE is regularly thwarted in the first instance:
https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/denver-ice-colorado-advocacy-group-fugitive-escapes-arrest/
On Mon Jun 23 12:40:50 2025 AMuzi wrote:Mexico City, he bought a house there to stay in while taking care of his elderly father. His home was not broken into and he hasn't been held up on the street.
On 6/23/2025 11:48 AM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 11:23:45 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
<https://www.ice.gov/remove/statistics>
ICE preferes "removals" over "deportations".
I'm having a difficult time with the bureucratic terms. I did manage
to find this:
"ICE conducts removal flights May 17 (2023)"
<https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-conducts-removal-flights-may-17> >>>> "U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted multiple
removal flights today, including El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and >>>> Israel, as part of dozens of flights conducted each week."
Notice that Israel is included in the removal (deportation) countries. >>>>
<https://www.ice.gov/doclib/eoy/iceAnnualReportFY2022.pdf>
In the tables starting on Page 69, it shows that:
FY 2020 FY 2021 FY 2022
52 22 18
Israeli citizens were removed (deported).
Whether they were Jews, Arabs or others is unknown.
Jeff what is going on with you? ICE is deporting criminals. And it is between 800 and 1000 a day. Compare that with the 10,000 a day that entered FROM the start of the Obama administration to the end of the Biden administration.
I have told you what my Mexican/Ameroican neighbor has said about what was actually happening but apparently this group wants to pretend that actual eye witnesses don't know anything. Because of the almost complete disappearance of major crime in
No one has assaultged his father or the caregivers.
Stop telling us about things you don't know about because Democratws want to portray Obama as the greatest President ever.
Large area, in which many things are true at the same time.
ICE is indeed deporting criminals.
ICE are also deporting people who have no criminal history
beyond illegal entry.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/youre-acting-like-criminals-owner-yells-at-ice-agents-raiding-his-torrance-car-wash/
ICE is regularly thwarted in the first instance:
https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/denver-ice-colorado-advocacy-group-fugitive-escapes-arrest/
Andrew, tell mne how you know that thedy are deporting anyone f0or only illegal entry. Beloieving the New York Times again?
Not to mention that the MAJORITY of American citizens including an overwhelming percentge of Hispanic/Americans want illegals deported. Or is majority ruloes not part of the Americsan way anymore?
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown- grandfather- >>>>>> ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 year
old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent- shot-nyc-
park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic, entered
the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New York
and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of the
cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December
2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal- officer-
shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted on
a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of felony
arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your
instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal
career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50- years-on-death-
row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are horrified
by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary and
the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law over many
years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
*not all
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown- grandfather- >>>>>>> ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 year >>>>> old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent- shot-nyc-
park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic, entered >>>>>> the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New York >>>>>> and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of the
cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December
2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal- officer-
shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted on >>>>>> a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of felony
arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your
instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal
career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50- years-on-death-
row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are horrified
by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary and
the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law over many
years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
*not all
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society
than an 80 year old in this country legally with no
criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-
agent- shot-nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican
Republic, entered the country illegally in Arizona
from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic
violence in New York and has an active warrant for
missing a court date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery
in December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in
January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal-
officer- shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is
also wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts
and has a history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common,
from your instance above to a series of judges not
holding this illegal career criminal with a
deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/
local/2025/06/25/ mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-
after-nearly-50- years-on-death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we
are horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and
necessary and the laws are old, well analyzed through
significant case law over many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A
competent administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct
them, that tells us something.
*not all
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80
year old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol- agent- shot-
nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic,
entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..." >>>>>>>
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New
York and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of >>>>>>> the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December >>>>>>> 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal- officer-
shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted >>>>>>> on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of
felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your >>>>>>> instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal
career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/ local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard-jordan- after-nearly-50- years-on-
death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are
horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary
and the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law over
many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
There's no clear indication so far,
fabrications notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record-straight-ice-never- deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not-deport- american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation-claims-debunked/ a-73201853
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society
than an 80 year old in this country legally with no
criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-
agent- shot-nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican
Republic, entered the country illegally in Arizona
from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic
violence in New York and has an active warrant for
missing a court date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery
in December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in
January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal-
officer- shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is
also wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts
and has a history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common,
from your instance above to a series of judges not
holding this illegal career criminal with a
deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/
local/2025/06/25/ mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-
after-nearly-50- years-on-death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we
are horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and
necessary and the laws are old, well analyzed through
significant case law over many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A
competent administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct
them, that tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
There's no clear indication so far, fabrications
notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record-straight-ice-never-deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not-deport-american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation-claims-debunked/a-73201853
On 7/24/2025 8:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80
year old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol- agent- shot- >>>>>>>> nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic,
entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..." >>>>>>>>
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New >>>>>>>> York and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of >>>>>>>> the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December >>>>>>>> 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal- officer- >>>>>>>> shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted >>>>>>>> on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of
felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your >>>>>>>> instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal
career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/ local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard-jordan- after-nearly-50- years-on-
death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are
horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary
and the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law over
many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
Yes, we do.
There's no clear indication so far,
yes, there is.
fabrications notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record-straight-ice-never-
deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not-deport-
american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation-claims-debunked/
a-73201853
Sure, but that isn't the case of somone picked up by accident or counter
to the laws of the US.
These cases are of people intentionally picked up by ICE, in the country >legally, and having committed no crimes:
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5217595-international-students-faculty-trump-immigration-crackdown-ice-tufts-student-detained-columbia-alabama/
And the trump administration is recalcitrant at best.
On 7/24/2025 8:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-
allentown- grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society
than an 80 year old in this country legally with no
criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-
agent- shot- nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican
Republic, entered the country illegally in Arizona
from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic
violence in New York and has an active warrant for
missing a court date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery
in December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in
January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-
federal- officer- shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-
robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is
also wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts
and has a history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably
common, from your instance above to a series of
judges not holding this illegal career criminal with
a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got
it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/
local/2025/06/25/ mississippi- executes-richard-
jordan- after-nearly-50- years-on- death-
row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but
we are horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and
necessary and the laws are old, well analyzed through
significant case law over many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A
competent administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct
them, that tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
Yes, we do.
There's no clear indication so far,
yes, there is.
fabrications notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record-
straight-ice-never- deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not-
deport- american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation-
claims-debunked/ a-73201853
Sure, but that isn't the case of somone picked up by
accident or counter to the laws of the US.
These cases are of people intentionally picked up by ICE, in
the country legally, and having committed no crimes:
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5217595- international-students-faculty-trump-immigration-crackdown- ice-tufts-student-detained-columbia-alabama/
And the trump administration is recalcitrant at best.
On Fri, 25 Jul 2025 07:49:07 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 7/24/2025 8:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 >>>>>>>> year old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol- agent- shot- >>>>>>>>> nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic,
entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..." >>>>>>>>>
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New >>>>>>>>> York and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of >>>>>>>>> the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December >>>>>>>>> 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal- officer- >>>>>>>>> shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted >>>>>>>>> on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of >>>>>>>>> felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your >>>>>>>>> instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal >>>>>>>>> career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/ local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard-jordan- after-nearly-50- years-on- >>>>>>> death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are
horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary
and the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law over >>>>> many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
Yes, we do.
There's no clear indication so far,
yes, there is.
fabrications notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record-straight-ice-never-
deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not-deport-
american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation-claims-debunked/
a-73201853
Sure, but that isn't the case of somone picked up by accident or counter
to the laws of the US.
These cases are of people intentionally picked up by ICE, in the country
legally, and having committed no crimes:
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5217595-international-students-faculty-trump-immigration-crackdown-ice-tufts-student-detained-columbia-alabama/
And the trump administration is recalcitrant at best.
You'd think that non-citizens who have been allowed in the country
with a visa would know enough not to make trouble. Green card holders
do not have the same rights as citizns.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 7/25/2025 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/25/2025 6:49 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/24/2025 8:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon- allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 >>>>>>>>> year old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol- agent- shot- >>>>>>>>>> nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic, >>>>>>>>>> entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..." >>>>>>>>>>
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New >>>>>>>>>> York and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one >>>>>>>>>> of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in
December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025" >>>>>>>>>>
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty- federal-
officer- shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc- robbery-attempt/ >>>>>>>>>>
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also
wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a
history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from >>>>>>>>>> your instance above to a series of judges not holding this >>>>>>>>>> illegal career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/ local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard- jordan- after-nearly-50- years-on- >>>>>>>> death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are
horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary >>>>>> and the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law
over many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
Yes, we do.
There's no clear indication so far,
yes, there is.
fabrications notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record- straight-ice-
never- deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not- deport-
american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation- claims-
debunked/ a-73201853
Sure, but that isn't the case of somone picked up by accident or
counter to the laws of the US.
These cases are of people intentionally picked up by ICE, in the
country legally, and having committed no crimes:
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5217595- international-
students-faculty-trump-immigration-crackdown- ice-tufts-student-
detained-columbia-alabama/
And the trump administration is recalcitrant at best.
Utterly different.
We wholly and wholeheartedly agree that US citizens ought not to be
deported in error. If and when that happens, as with other errors (as
documented well by The Innocence Project), we ought to vigorously demand
correction as promptly as possible.
hmph...a lot of good that would do...
Temporary visa holders, such as foreign student you linked, are here at
the pleasure of the Secretary of State and may be removed, at his
discretion, at any time. That's the (very old, much litigated to
clarity) Statute.
You can read it yourself:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/42.82
point taken, but it's funny how the campaign promise of getting rid of
the most violent criminals has morphed in "people I don't like"
On 7/25/2025 6:49 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/24/2025 8:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/24/2025 6:16 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/23/2025 8:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/23/2025 4:23 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/22/2025 4:37 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon- allentown-
grandfather- ice- guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 >>>>>>>> year old in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol- agent- shot- >>>>>>>>> nyc- park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic,
entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..." >>>>>>>>>
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New >>>>>>>>> York and has an active warrant for missing a court date on one >>>>>>>>> of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in
December 2024 and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025" >>>>>>>>>
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty- federal-
officer- shot- by- deported-felon-in-nyc- robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also
wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a
history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from
your instance above to a series of judges not holding this
illegal career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/ local/2025/06/25/
mississippi- executes-richard- jordan- after-nearly-50- years-on- >>>>>>> death- row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
There is.
Most* citizens favor execution of vicious murderers but we are
horrified by conviction of innocents.
Removing illegals, as the Statutes require, is right and necessary
and the laws are old, well analyzed through significant case law
over many years.
Deporting citizens is illegal wrong and deplorable.
OK, I see what you meant now.
As in all human activity, there will be errors. A competent
administration corrects them.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
*not all
I don't know that and You probably don't either.
Yes, we do.
There's no clear indication so far,
yes, there is.
fabrications notwithstanding:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/21/dhs-sets-record- straight-ice-
never- deported-medias-allentown-grandfather
https://thedailybeat.org/false-claim-exposed-ice-did-not- deport-
american-toddler/
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-viral-ice-deportation- claims-
debunked/ a-73201853
Sure, but that isn't the case of somone picked up by accident or
counter to the laws of the US.
These cases are of people intentionally picked up by ICE, in the
country legally, and having committed no crimes:
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/5217595- international-
students-faculty-trump-immigration-crackdown- ice-tufts-student-
detained-columbia-alabama/
And the trump administration is recalcitrant at best.
Utterly different.
We wholly and wholeheartedly agree that US citizens ought not to be
deported in error. If and when that happens, as with other errors (as documented well by The Innocence Project), we ought to vigorously demand correction as promptly as possible.
Temporary visa holders, such as foreign student you linked, are here at
the pleasure of the Secretary of State and may be removed, at his
discretion, at any time. That's the (very old, much litigated to
clarity) Statute.
You can read it yourself:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/42.82
On Sat, 19 Jul 2025 19:38:44 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
while I can assoed to live
Is that a male prostitution thing?
Whatever, I'm glad you can afford to live on it. Soon half of
the American population will be on welfare, and it'll be a pretty
meager welfare.
In article <f3b98kdgkp783aq02tggb5cla63rkl53sq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
...according to leftist loons, who can't document that claim.
The leftist loons at ICE say this year so far we have these book-ins
[1]:
Convicted criminal: 82,045
Pending criminal charges: 52,263
Other immigration violator: 99,672
It's that last group of illegal immigrants that don't fit the claim "the >worst of the worst".
[1] Spreadsheet from https://www.ice.gov/detain/detention-management
...according to leftist loons, who can't document that claim.
In article <f3b98kdgkp783aq02tggb5cla63rkl53sq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
...according to leftist loons, who can't document that claim.
The leftist loons at ICE say this year so far we have these book-ins
[1]:
Convicted criminal: 82,045
Pending criminal charges: 52,263
Other immigration violator: 99,672
It's that last group of illegal immigrants that don't fit the claim "the worst of the worst".
[1] Spreadsheet from https://www.ice.gov/detain/detention-management
In article <f3b98kdgkp783aq02tggb5cla63rkl53sq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
...according to leftist loons, who can't document that claim.
The leftist loons at ICE say this year so far we have these book-ins
[1]:
Convicted criminal: 82,045
Pending criminal charges: 52,263
Other immigration violator: 99,672
It's that last group of illegal immigrants that don't fit the claim "the worst of the worst".
[1] Spreadsheet from https://www.ice.gov/detain/detention-management
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:53:53 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 06:31:25 2025 zen cycle wrote:
That's what they would like you to beleive - Our current iteration is a
wannabe totalitarian who claims a mandate with a popular vote advantage
of less than 2%.
And yet your so-called 2% is belied by the fast that 75% of the people in this country approve of Trump's actions
My sources say 41% and falling. Worse than any other president
in the last 50 years.
Please post an URL to your sources.
TY
On Mon Jun 23 12:45:24 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:02 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 23:41:03 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2XC5Q.1372247$6%s6.721360@fx12.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
the way I read the 6th Amendment you are not required to stand jury
duty. The 6th Amendment guarantees the defendent the right to a speedy >>>>> trial with a jury of his peers. It does not require citizens to stand >>>>> jury duty.
A fine state the 6th Amendment would be in if no peers showed up to be >>>> the jury!
Butler v Perry calls out compulsory service of several types as being
Constitutional, including military service and jury duty.
Providing the jury of peers is a state responsibility.
With batons, handcuffs and chains?
Or does that have an individual civic duty component?
"If you don't answer a jury summons, you may receive a second summons, and failing to respond to that can result in a fine of up to $250 or even contempt of court charges, which could lead to a Class A misdemeanor. It's important to respond or seek anexcusal if you have a valid reason.
"
Is rhat your idea of batons and handcuffs?
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:politics you should be more up-to-date
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's
a difficult task.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowskipolitics you should be more up-to-date
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's
a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time
to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
On Mon Jun 23 19:57:05 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:politics you should be more up-to-date
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's
a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time
to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
Why don't you simply tell us all that I'm wrong? That the PLA didn't kidnap, murder and torture civilians?
Mentioining that proves to you and Frank that I am seeking attention.
You and he are deathly afraid that people will come to the conclusion that I worked for 50 years as an EE and you worked for none. I guess that is what happens to those who consider themselves experts at everything. Including how much mud was on theroad of a place they've never been.
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 21:15:41 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>politics you should be more up-to-date
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 19:57:05 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
road of a place they've never been.
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's >>>> a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time
to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
Why don't you simply tell us all that I'm wrong? That the PLA didn't kidnap, murder and torture civilians?
You posted that about a month ago. Any reason why most of your recent comments are to old (and very old) postings?
Try again. The PLA is the Peoples Liberation Army: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army>
Were you thinking of the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization>
However, that's also wrong because they had nothing to do with
kidnapping and torturing people in Gaza. That was Hamas (Islamic
Resistance Movement):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas>
Mentioining that proves to you and Frank that I am seeking attention.
Nope. Wait another month and I might tell you how and why you are
seeking attention. These might help:
From ChatGPT4o:
"Why people lie for attention" <https://chatgpt.com/share/68880228-9fb0-800c-9511-dc50ce000897>
"Lying for Attention: Understanding the Causes and Consequences" <https://liedetectortest.com/psychology/lying-for-attention-understanding-the-causes-and-consequences>
"Understanding histrionic personality disorder and lying" <https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/histrionic-personality-disorder-and-lying>
You and he are deathly afraid that people will come to the conclusion that I worked for 50 years as an EE and you worked for none. I guess that is what happens to those who consider themselves experts at everything. Including how much mud was on the
Repeating your lie will not make it come true. You can only dream.
Also, denigrating my reputation, knowledge or experience is not going magically make your claims come true. I could be evil incarnate (or
worse) and you would still be Tom, the compulsive liar.
On 7/28/2025 6:09 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:politics you should be more up-to-date
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 21:15:41 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 19:57:05 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
road of a place they've never been.
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's >>>>> a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time >>>> to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
Why don't you simply tell us all that I'm wrong? That the PLA didn't kidnap, murder and torture civilians?
You posted that about a month ago. Any reason why most of your recent
comments are to old (and very old) postings?
Try again. The PLA is the Peoples Liberation Army:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army>
Were you thinking of the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization>
However, that's also wrong because they had nothing to do with
kidnapping and torturing people in Gaza. That was Hamas (Islamic
Resistance Movement):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas>
Mentioining that proves to you and Frank that I am seeking attention.
Nope. Wait another month and I might tell you how and why you are
seeking attention. These might help:
From ChatGPT4o:
"Why people lie for attention"
<https://chatgpt.com/share/68880228-9fb0-800c-9511-dc50ce000897>
"Lying for Attention: Understanding the Causes and Consequences"
<https://liedetectortest.com/psychology/lying-for-attention-understanding-the-causes-and-consequences>
"Understanding histrionic personality disorder and lying"
<https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/histrionic-personality-disorder-and-lying>
You and he are deathly afraid that people will come to the conclusion that I worked for 50 years as an EE and you worked for none. I guess that is what happens to those who consider themselves experts at everything. Including how much mud was on the
Repeating your lie will not make it come true. You can only dream.
Also, denigrating my reputation, knowledge or experience is not going
magically make your claims come true. I could be evil incarnate (or
worse) and you would still be Tom, the compulsive liar.
Actually there's a small link in there.
When Arafat (nephew of the Nazi's Grand Mufti of Jerusalem)
established the PLO in 1964, the first country to recognize
them was red chine PRC. And they've never relented in
support of PLO or any other anti-Israel outfit.
True. Ever notice the large number of times that Tom has added my
name to his postings? I don't have an easy way to count such
articles. A search for "Liebermann" in rec.bicycles.tech should
provide a clue:
<https://www.novabbs.com/tech/search.php>
Insert "Liebermann" in the "Search Terms" box, check "Body" of the
message and sort by "date". Visually search through the list of
articles posted by Tom.
So, why does Tom do this? Obviously, he values my opinion. He seems
to crave attention so much that he tolerates my fact checking. Maybe
he's a masochist. His description of his rides seem to indicate that
he enjoys pain. I must admit that I enjoy the target practice, mostly because it improves my research skills, knowledge of politics and some psychology.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>that has to do with anything? Since I was between jobs, unlike you I took anything I could get to make money and they paid me well. Since you don't know anything you don't know how difficult it is to find a flight-line technician.
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal? Just for the hell of it? I only got two medals, the Vietnam war medal and the Good Conduct medal.
The medal was called the Vietnam Service Medal: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal>
"The Vietnam Service Medal (VSM) was awarded to all members of the
U.S. Armed Forces who served in Vietnam and its contiguous waters or airspace, after 3 July 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the U.S.
Armed Forces in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or airspace thereover,
during the same period and serving in direct support of operations in
Vietnam are also eligible for the award."
You were never in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or in their
airspace.
11/02/2021 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/MyPJ4MA3e60/m/-TZfbH7xAQAJ> "I was born in October of 1944. I joined at 17.5 Those with the
ability to add would assume that I joined the Air Force in May of
1961. 4 years of active duty and two years inactive liable to be
recalled would to most people mean that I got off of active duty in
1965 and finished my service of the Air Force in 1967."
If you got off active duty in 1965, and the medal was for those who
served after July 3, 1965, you had a 6 month overlap when you were
eligible to receive the medal. Maybe, but I doubt it.
And yes, I did work at Bayaire Avionics during the airlift of ALL of the soldiers and 110,000 or so Vietnamese who would have been killed for cooperating with Ameriicans or who were part of a Democraticaolly elected government. Can you tell us what
You were "between jobs" for 4 years? What years would that have been? According to your online resume, you were at Lowry Air Force Base
1961-1962.
The airlift ran for 2 days, which is much less than 4 years. It was
also 10 years after your active duty ended: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"It was carried out on 29 - 30 April 1975, during the last days of the Vietnam War."
Also I worked as a technician when I worked for Hawk Telephone. Although we were a lot cheaper than Pactel, there were only two of us and I made more money as a phone tech than as an EE that I left Hawkins for.
Is that Hawk or Hawkins? Neither appears in your online resume: <https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/details/experience/>
What year was that?
On 6/23/2025 4:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal? Just for the hell of it? I only got two medals, the Vietnam war medal and the Good Conduct medal.
The medal was called the Vietnam Service Medal: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal>
"The Vietnam Service Medal (VSM) was awarded to all members of the
U.S. Armed Forces who served in Vietnam and its contiguous waters or airspace, after 3 July 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the U.S. Armed Forces in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or airspace thereover,
during the same period and serving in direct support of operations in Vietnam are also eligible for the award."
You were never in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or in their
airspace.
I seem to remember tommy claiming he could discern the condition of a
dirt road (the ho chi minh trail) under a jungle canopy while looking
through the bomb bay doors of a B-52 flying at 300 mph and a mile up.
Unless of course he was lying about that too.....what are the odds?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:07:49 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>that has to do with anything? Since I was between jobs, unlike you I took anything I could get to make money and they paid me well. Since you don't know anything you don't know how difficult it is to find a flight-line technician.
wrote:
On 6/23/2025 4:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal? Just for the hell of it? I only got two medals, the Vietnam war medal and the Good Conduct medal.
The medal was called the Vietnam Service Medal:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal>
"The Vietnam Service Medal (VSM) was awarded to all members of the
U.S. Armed Forces who served in Vietnam and its contiguous waters or
airspace, after 3 July 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the U.S.
Armed Forces in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or airspace thereover,
during the same period and serving in direct support of operations in
Vietnam are also eligible for the award."
You were never in Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, or in their
airspace.
I seem to remember tommy claiming he could discern the condition of a
dirt road (the ho chi minh trail) under a jungle canopy while looking >through the bomb bay doors of a B-52 flying at 300 mph and a mile up. >Unless of course he was lying about that too.....what are the odds?
My guess(tm) is 90% of what Tom claims is wrong. Whether that's
intentional or accidental is unknown.
The US started bombing the Ho Chi Minh trail on Mar 3, 1965. <https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/march-3/u-s-jets-bomb-ho-chi-minh-trail>
Tom ended his active duty some time in 1965. That would give Tom
about a one month window. It's possible, but I find it difficult that
he could have simultaneously been supporting B-52 missions on Guam, in Oakland Calif fixing radios, and dropping bombs on the Ho Chi Minh
trail.
Note that most of the Ho Chi Minh trail was in Laos, with only small
parts in North and South Vietnam: <https://cuongs-motorbike-adventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/VN-Laos-Jeep-Trip-Map.jpg>
I don't recall what the ground looks like at 5,280ft altitude but I
suspect that I would not see much due to the forest canopy and the
rainy season (mostly Sept and Nov).
11/02/2021
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/MyPJ4MA3e60/m/-TZfbH7xAQAJ>
"I was born in October of 1944. I joined at 17.5 Those with the
ability to add would assume that I joined the Air Force in May of
1961. 4 years of active duty and two years inactive liable to be
recalled would to most people mean that I got off of active duty in
1965 and finished my service of the Air Force in 1967."
If you got off active duty in 1965, and the medal was for those who
served after July 3, 1965, you had a 6 month overlap when you were
eligible to receive the medal. Maybe, but I doubt it.
And yes, I did work at Bayaire Avionics during the airlift of ALL of the soldiers and 110,000 or so Vietnamese who would have been killed for cooperating with Ameriicans or who were part of a Democraticaolly elected government. Can you tell us what
You were "between jobs" for 4 years? What years would that have been?
According to your online resume, you were at Lowry Air Force Base
1961-1962.
The airlift ran for 2 days, which is much less than 4 years. It was
also 10 years after your active duty ended:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frequent_Wind>
"It was carried out on 29 - 30 April 1975, during the last days of the
Vietnam War."
Also I worked as a technician when I worked for Hawk Telephone. Although we were a lot cheaper than Pactel, there were only two of us and I made more money as a phone tech than as an EE that I left Hawkins for.
Is that Hawk or Hawkins? Neither appears in your online resume:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/details/experience/>
What year was that?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:07:58 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Why did I get a Vietnam war medal?
In article <103etg8$26nu7$4@dont-email.me>,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone once claimed that the number of military chest medals is
roughly proportional to the number of battles lost. I don't know if
that's true or not.
The longer you're in command, the more likely you are to be awarded
medals. The longer you're in command, the more likely you are to have
lost battles. So... maybe!
But if it is true, it's certainly a non-causal correlation.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:19:40 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>And consider - the US was supplying all of the supplies to the Russian Army to hold out. Without us, they would have had no chance at all.This is ALL a matter of history. You only need to read it.
wrote:
Are you unaware that Hitler moved his army into Italy to support that incompetent Musolini? In any case, the German army in Russia was not the finest and they came within a hair's breadth of taking Stalingrad. If they had done that Russia was lost.
Or re-write it. Yes, that would work...
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue Jun 24 15:21:19 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/24/2025 2:46 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 16:51:19 2025 Shadow wrote:
rOn Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:17:14 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 22:32:14 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
The obligations and threats are well beyond just defensive measures, which
is why the US needs such a large military, for that role which is well >>>>>> beyond just defensive.
We have two I believe and are relatively large carriers just not US sized
ones!
Who won the worls wars? Even with the US being dragged into WW II
kicking and screaming let's remember that GB, France, Australia and >>>>> Canada were not winning that war. They could hardly stay even.
Russia won world war II. If Hitler had not invaded Russia we would all >>>> be speaking Trump.
The US was not dragged in "kicking and screaming". They initially
supported Germany, but when it became clear they'd backed the wrong
horse, they decided to send their poor in to secure their loans...
Russia didn;t win shit. Hitler had so little respect for them he put
all of his good armies on the western front. Eisenhower simply
outsmarted him, got a landing and rolled them up. The Battle of the
Bulge was merely caused by the American tanks taking a different rout. >>> After Paton trned and headed north Germany folded. Germany had too much >>> self confidence and its generals made too many mistakes because of
that. But after the success Normandy the end was inevitable. US day
time bombing raids and GB night time raids killed the industrial
capacity of Germany and Germany was alone fighting the entire world.
The German staff had about half the intelligence as any common German on the street.
You have no idea.
I'm amidst this new work, my 4th on the subject, and it's
chock full of newly recovered detail. You might enjoy it:
https://www.alibris.com/Stalingrad-Antony-Beevor/book/6300850?qsort=p&matches!1
Without Zhukov, nothing.
Andrew, Russia surviving Stalingrad turned the war into a two front advancement. This was NOT a case of Russia winning the war but a case of them being in position to attack Germany on a second front.There was NO habitable area left where Stalingrad stood and the war crimes of Germany were nothing compared to those of Russia when they turned the front
around. The Russians were understandably angry but to say that they won
WW2 is preposterous.
No he?s quite correct Russia absolutely won the European theatre, did they have help? Absolutely but they moved the factories away from the front
lines in a quite staggering time, so new tanks and so on kept on rolling on to the front lines.
Ie wasn?t just throwing numbers.
You need to try to read some verifiable evidence not just click bate stuff.
Roger Merriman
No he?s quite correct Russia absolutely won the European theatre, did they have help? Absolutely but they moved the factories away from the front
lines in a quite staggering time, so new tanks and so on kept on rolling on to the front lines.
Ie wasn?t just throwing numbers.
You need to try to read some verifiable evidence not just click bate stuff.
Perhaps you can find a reference of B52's bombing Laos you moron. If they DID bomb the Ho Chi Minh trail it was with fighter.bombers with the designation of A- whatever. John said that he was on a fighter base in-country. Perhaps you should ask himabout it since he would know about it.
You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding that I lost my memory and my computer containing my full resume to a hacker.
So the dates that me and Bob Hawkins had a phone business is lost from my memory and would not have been in any of my on-line resume's since it was not an engineering position. Which brings us back to the question - do you know what an engineeringposition is?
On Fri Jun 27 11:45:51 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
No he?s quite correct Russia absolutely won the European theatre, did they >> have help? Absolutely but they moved the factories away from the front
lines in a quite staggering time, so new tanks and so on kept on rolling on >> to the front lines.
Ie wasn?t just throwing numbers.
You need to try to read some verifiable evidence not just click bate stuff.
Roger, do you your own version of DEI there in GB? Without US support
both Russia and probably GB would have either fallen or be forced to
become nothing little states of Germany.
The US was building ONE freighter per WEEK in Richmond alone! The east
coast ship building plant were cranking out cruisers, destroyers and
Aircraft carriers almost as fast. Aircraft were coming off of the
assembly lines in Detroit and southern California one per hour.
The US industrial war machine was running at full tilt BEFORE Pearl Harbor.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:39:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring. Tedll us again about how you know how to program and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
MY boss.. wait, I WAS my boss. Doctors cannot be subordinate
to ANYONE. It's in our oath, We do what we think is correct. Our
obligation is to our patients, but we don't and cannot take orders
from them.
Don't like it, fire us but never give us orders as to what
medication or what procedures to use.
You can sue us if we are wrong ... a general once took me to
court because I refused to salute him. The judge suggested where he
could put his salute. I almost told the judge that he couldn't give proctological prescriptions without a license but decided to keep it
to myself. That judge looked like he was in a very bad mood.
A patient once sued me because I refused to prescribe the
medicine she KNEW was best for her, because she's seen it on TV. The
judge asked me if I wanted her arrested....(I let her go).
As to anyone else, most bosses don't care how or when
management do things, as long as it works and is good for the company.
The only ones that have to worry about bosses are lowly
non-skilled workers. They need to keep an eye on the clock and check
every now and then their bosses don't catch them taking a non-approved
break.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:35:42 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 14:48:45 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:22:54 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth.
LOL. Well you got the bit about the US starting the Vietnam
war right, but that's not a "state secret" anymore. No, Trump didn't
publish it, it's not been secret for a looong time.
Whoever supported the massacre of the Vietnamese because
"Vietnam was going to invade amerika" or to "defend amerika" is a
fool
I wonder when they'll make the "real" 9/11 public?
They've already admitted Iraq wasn't behind the implosions and
didn't have weapons of mass destruction so offered absolutely no
threat. And that Bush was Osama's father's business partner. It's a
start.
Blocking doesn't change that.
I'll never block you. I enjoy a good laugh.
Cheer up.
you laughing at? Your comments showing your strong belief in communism? Perhaps you can tell us one country in the world where it has worked?You made several comments about medical subjects that seemed to be spot on. As I suggested then, you should keep your comments restricted to things you know about rather than Ame4rican politics about which you are completely ignorant. What exactly are
Communism has never worked and never will.
LOL. Every single means of production/source of income
controlled by a dictatorship? From bicycle tires to frilly panties to tourism?. Every single worker a civil servant? It can't and will not
ever happen. It's a crazy person's dream. If anyone says communism
works, refer them to a psychiatrist.
Not one of the "top dozen" HDI (highest quality of living)
countries is communist. The vast majority are socialist welfare states though.
OTOH very few are right wing. The US is NOT on that list
either...
Fairly safe to say Tom has never met a Communist or any idea what it is,
and not alone in confusing it with broadly socialist states.
On 6/25/2025 1:22 PM, cyclintom wrote:
I'm sorry that neither you nor Krygowski can see the truth. Blocking doesn't change that.
Tom, you should have noticed by now that about 90% of your posts, NOBODY agrees with. You don't get posts agreeing with you; you get only
responses with links showing you're flat wrong.
And I'm not talking only about those of us who lean left or center with
our politics. You don't have right wing posters agreeing with $11,000
Teslas, your views on World War II and the Russians, or much else.
This is not some conspiracy. Most things you post are factually wrong,
and easily proven wrong.
Each time you post, you do more damage to the credibility of those
sharing your political views.
On 7/28/2025 3:41 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 12:45:24 2025 AMuzi wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:02 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 23:41:03 2025 Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <2XC5Q.1372247$6%s6.721360@fx12.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
the way I read the 6th Amendment you are not required to stand jury >>>>> duty. The 6th Amendment guarantees the defendent the right to a speedy >>>>> trial with a jury of his peers. It does not require citizens to stand >>>>> jury duty.
A fine state the 6th Amendment would be in if no peers showed up to be >>>> the jury!
Butler v Perry calls out compulsory service of several types as being >>>> Constitutional, including military service and jury duty.
Providing the jury of peers is a state responsibility.
With batons, handcuffs and chains?
Or does that have an individual civic duty component?
an excusal if you have a valid reason."If you don't answer a jury summons, you may receive a second summons, and failing to respond to that can result in a fine of up to $250 or even contempt of court charges, which could lead to a Class A misdemeanor. It's important to respond or seek
"
Is rhat your idea of batons and handcuffs?
That was hyperbole because whatever we have now doesn't work
all that well.
"Approximately 32 million individuals receive summonses for
jury duty in the United States each year. This large pool of
potential jurors forms the basis for the selection process
that ensures fair trials.
Out of the 32 million summoned, about 8 million people
actually report for jury duty annually. From this group,
approximately 1.5 million individuals are chosen to serve on
state court juries each year."
https://www.luxwisp.com/statistics-about-jury-duty/
https://brainly.com/question/61416982
https://www.judges.org/news-and-info/poll-finds-judges-are-concerned-about-increasing-numbers-of-people-ignoring-summonses-for-jury-duty/
On 7/21/2025 8:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/20/2025 4:02 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-grandfather-ice-
guatemala/
I feel safer already.
Shouldn't we all? What's more of a threat to society than an 80 year old
in this country legally with no criminal record?
Yes I saw that. Then again:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-shot-nyc-park/ story?id=123905115
"the suspect, who DHS said is from the Dominican Republic, entered the country illegally in Arizona from Mexico in 2023..."
"Mora Nunez has two prior arrests for domestic violence in New York and
has an active warrant for missing a court date on one of the cases."
"Mora Nunez is also wanted by the NYPD for a robbery in December 2024
and a felony assault stabbing in January 2025"
Oh, there's more.
https://5townscentral.com/2025/07/20/off-duty-federal-officer-shot-by- deported-felon-in-nyc-robbery-attempt/
"In addition to his immigration violations, Nunez is also wanted on a kidnapping warrant in Massachusetts and has a history of felony arrests."
Systemic failures of all sorts are regrettably common, from your
instance above to a series of judges not holding this illegal career criminal with a deportation order.
I see, so that makes the Luis Leon incident OK....got it.
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/mississippi- executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50-years-on-death-row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
point taken, but it's funny how the campaign promise of getting rid of
the most violent criminals has morphed in "people I don't like"
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 20:27:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
This used to be an area completely surrounded by farms and ranches. The
water was clean and they had no problems, Then the entire countryside
was surrounded with housing projects, broken sewer pipes that no one
paid any attention to unless it caused a smell and concrete construction >> with dirty old concrete that put metals into the ground water.
I know of only one real rancher around here and it is up in the Altamont >> Pass. Sice they installed those windmills that cattole won't leave the
stockyard. The rancher has to feed them when they used to graze where
those windmills are now. He has to buy water from the local water company.
Baloney, as usual. There seem to be a fair number of photos of cattle grazing on todays wind farms: <https://www.google.com/search?q=cows%20grazing%20wind%20farm%20cows%20cattle&udm=2>
Yup the wind farm or on one of the spine of the hills near my folks has a field with cows next to it, and the windmills themselves are on grazing
land aka common land so sheep and occasionally cows, though cows only in
the summer as it gets rather soft other times of the year!
On 6/25/2025 1:58 PM, cyclintom wrote:them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >>>> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >>>> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
Maybe not as exciting to you as a cockroach brain but not
flat either:
https://www.britannica.com/place/Mount-Washington
Cyclists are pretty sharp generally. If it were flat, you'd
see more fixed gear machines here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0QCtbbP0zs
I counted zero fixies.
On 6/25/2025 2:58 PM, cyclintom wrote:
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
:-) HAH!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_of_New_Hampshire
I wonder if Tom's ever been east of the Mississippi.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >> >> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >> >> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills? <https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/> I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat: <https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?" <https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'.
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
On Wed Jun 25 14:33:44 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and >> >> >> septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and >> >> >> the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the
citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to cap
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires
very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent
bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
Liebermann, tell us what YOU know about New Hampsher.
You are the smartest Googler in the entire world who has never held a job.
Yup - The literally world famous Mt. Washington hill climb. They tell
riders to expect the possibility winter conditions at the top regardless
of the conditions at the bottom. Mt. Washington held the record for the highest recorded wind in the world for many decades of 231 MPH. It was
broken in 1996 during a hurricane that hit Barrow Island in Australia at
234 MPH.
It's 7.6 miles in long, has an average grade of 12% with extended
sections of 18% and the last 50 yards is 22%. There used to be gravel section, not sure if there is anymore.
Here's a profile that doesn't require a membership or subscription:
https://veloviewer.com/segment/3237/Mt.+Washington
It used to be the only day of the year where bicycles were permitted on
the road, but about ten years ago they decided to have a second event,
this one called Newtons Revenge. That gave way to a "practice ride",
which still costs $150 (the official race costs $350). It's forbidden to
ride down the mountain, even if you don't make it to the top.
No, I've never done the race.
On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 21:40:44 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>cap them off. Water treatment plants are not terribly complicated but what do you do with the brown water?
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 14:33:44 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:58:51 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 18:15:42 2025 John B. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:47:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 06:10:04 2025 John B. wrote:
I can only sympathies with you people back there .... all those
helpful agencies.
Growing up in mid New Hampshire we lived in two houses with wells and
septic tanks. Never a problem.
I suppose that the difference was that we knew what we were doing and
the U.S. wasn't, in those days intent on controlling every act the >> >> >> citizens make.
John, I expect you simply never knew the problems because of your young age. Septic systems in particulsr ned constant maintenance. Even outhouses have to be relocated far away from others when they fill enough to be covered over with dirt to
No Tom I do/did know what I was doing.
Anyone with the brain p0wer of a cockroach is aware that you always
build your water source up hill from your septic system which requires >> >> very limited service (obvious you don't how a septic tank works).
New Hamposhire is mostly flat. what is it you were saying about brains of a cockroach?
What percentage of the area of New Hampshire do you consider to be
"mostly flat"?
Notice the mountains and hills?
<https://www.visitwhitemountains.com/things-to-do/outdoors/mount-washington/>
I could provide a link to a topo map for you, but then I would need to
show you how to read the map. It's your claim and you get to prove
it.
Looking at various relief maps of NH, I can's find any part of NH that
is flat:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=10&q=3d%20relief%20map%20of%20new%20hampshire&udm=2>
This isn't quite what you claimed, but still interesting:
"How much bigger would N.H. be if you flattened out the mountains?"
<https://www.nhpr.org/environment/2021-10-01/how-much-bigger-would-nh-be-if-you-flattened-out-the-mountains>
"According to his calculations, New Hampshire is 133 square miles
bigger when you iron out the wrinkles, which is just about 1.5 percent
bigger."
I'm taking a break from stacking firewood. Everything aches.
Liebermann, tell us what YOU know about New Hampsher.
Unlike you, I know how to spell New Hamster.
You are the smartest Googler in the entire world who has never held a job.
It doesn't matter if I'm the smartest or whether I was unemployed for
a while. Even if I were the dumbest Google search user or have never
held a job, you would still be wrong.
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Fri Jun 27 11:45:51 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
No he?s quite correct Russia absolutely won the European theatre, did they >> have help? Absolutely but they moved the factories away from the front
lines in a quite staggering time, so new tanks and so on kept on rolling on
to the front lines.
Ie wasn?t just throwing numbers.
You need to try to read some verifiable evidence not just click bate stuff.
Roger, do you your own version of DEI there in GB? Without US support
both Russia and probably GB would have either fallen or be forced to
become nothing little states of Germany.
Perhaps read what was written? Absolutely UK and Russia needed materials, hence the battle of the Atlantic and the Artic Convoys which were brutal.
But Russian military played to its strengths and was able to move its tank factories back away from the front lines, remarkably quickly, something
like 2/3 of Germany land forces was devoted to defeating and then
attempting to defending against the red army.
The US was building ONE freighter per WEEK in Richmond alone! The east coast ship building plant were cranking out cruisers, destroyers and Aircraft carriers almost as fast. Aircraft were coming off of the
assembly lines in Detroit and southern California one per hour.
Liberty ships were designed to be built quickly, not to have a long life span.
The US in 42 ish was down to one operational carrier, they absolutely had multiple aircraft carriers building but even during war, capital ships take time and materials to build, even the US had some they delayed and then cancelled such as the Montana class, essentially the Iowa?s class big brother.
Even relatively small warships take time to build they generally are built
to a higher standard and have more equipment.
The US industrial war machine was running at full tilt BEFORE Pearl Harbor.
No it really wasn?t in a war time setting factory?s that once produced cars now make jeeps or tanks and so on.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 17:14:34 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:55 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:39:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring. Tedll us again about how you know how to program and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
MY boss.. wait, I WAS my boss. Doctors cannot be subordinate
to ANYONE. It's in our oath, We do what we think is correct. Our
obligation is to our patients, but we don't and cannot take orders
from them.
Don't like it, fire us but never give us orders as to what
medication or what procedures to use.
You can sue us if we are wrong ... a general once took me to
court because I refused to salute him. The judge suggested where he
could put his salute. I almost told the judge that he couldn't give
proctological prescriptions without a license but decided to keep it
to myself. That judge looked like he was in a very bad mood.
A patient once sued me because I refused to prescribe the
medicine she KNEW was best for her, because she's seen it on TV. The
judge asked me if I wanted her arrested....(I let her go).
As to anyone else, most bosses don't care how or when
management do things, as long as it works and is good for the company.
The only ones that have to worry about bosses are lowly
non-skilled workers. They need to keep an eye on the clock and check
every now and then their bosses don't catch them taking a non-approved
break.
[]'s
+1 on MDs.
Here in our brave new regulated and micromanaged country,
MDs are employees whose every move, every decision, every
act and their capitation rate are closely monitored. Which
has had two huge effects; 1. Better, more conscientious,
experienced MDs have retired early in great numbers and 2.
The sort of person entering Medical Schools has changed.
The "bad" sort of doctor has always existed. The sort whose
prime interest is money, not anyone's well being. And yes, they are
becoming more and more common.
When I was "ordered" to write down things that could be used
against patients (political affiliation, sexual preferences, affairs,
family problems minor illegal stuff like smoking cannabis) I would
just use a couple of symbols that no one else knew about. Since I was
a family doctor, they would be my patients for years .. so it didn't
affect them. Using code in patient's records in Brazil is illegal. But sometimes you just have to say fsck laws...
Now you have to write everything into a computer program which
the Bolsonaro regime forced onto public medicine. I'm not sure who has
the rights to sell all the patient.'s secrets, fears disorders etc.
ATM. Used to be Google, could be Amazon, META or even IBM now. I
retired long before it became mandatory. Thank doG for that.
There is a trillion dollar market in patient data. It's used
to calculate insurance, for blackmail, to evaluate Big Pharma's
propaganda or bribes and even to make people sick .... if you know
their allergies and weaknesses you have an advantage.
<https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/hospitals-across-the-us-make-deal-to-sell-your-medical-records-to-technology-giants-like-microsoft-amazon-and-ibm-in-3-trillion-dollar-healthcare-boom-market/>
Just one link, if you search, you'll find META, Cloudflare,
Twitter(X) and others are in on it too.
Why I shudder when someone says they're having a Zoom
consultation with their doctors. It's not just their doctors that are listening in.
In article <f3b98kdgkp783aq02tggb5cla63rkl53sq@4ax.com>,
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
...according to leftist loons, who can't document that claim.
The leftist loons at ICE say this year so far we have these book-ins
[1]:
Convicted criminal: 82,045
Pending criminal charges: 52,263
Other immigration violator: 99,672
It's that last group of illegal immigrants that don't fit the claim "the worst of the worst".
[1] Spreadsheet from https://www.ice.gov/detain/detention-management
On Sun, 20 Jul 2025 21:02:38 -0000 (UTC), Beej Jorgensen
<beej@beej.us> wrote:
https://www.mcall.com/2025/07/18/luis-leon-allentown-grandfather-ice-guatemala/
"this page is not available in your country"
I feel safer already.
<https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jul/20/ice-secretly-deported-grandfather>
That's a relief! He could have been carrying a gun like our
tricycle rider. 80 year olds are a danger to all. Just like Trump.
Hope the average American citizen is footing the hospital
bill. Out of decency.
[]'s
PS He was in the country LEGALLY and presented himself to the authorities when he couldn't find his green card to get a replacement.
Due to a lack of due process, he was deported...
In article <X9X6Q.18382$KxI2.12812@fx45.iad>,
cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Under the Democrats public lands were not available EVEN to graze
cattle.
They still graze cattle in my state--it hasn't been cut off. There are "please close" gates, cattle guards, and cow shit all over the place.
I'm not complaining; it's mixed-use land.
There was no mining or drilling for oil or anything
Hmm. When you say "none", I suspect you mean "a certain amount".
In article <103fem7$2bbt4$1@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
People see that differently.
People who don't tend to be hunters, fishermen, ATV riders,
motorcyclists, hikers, plinkers, mountain bikers, cattle ranchers,
campers, and conservationists, sure. That part of the bill really
brought these people together! :)
The area and numbers are gargantuan and have better potential IMHO.
I guess it all depends on ones definition of "better".
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 16:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor,
read her thesis.
Having a doctorate in teaching is like being captain of rowboat.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 16:43:10 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor,
read her thesis.
Well, she has a doctorate, so she IS a "doctor". Just not an
MD kind of doctor. I don't mind people being called "doctors". Just
not in art, please.
I hate it that some of her books mention doG. If she was a
teacher she should have known to keep religion out of the classroom.
Imagine being a Buddhist and knowing your teacher will give you a
lower score because you're not.
OTOH, apparently she enjoyed working and didn't abandon her
profession when her husband became notorious. (not saying that Trump's
wife didn't abandon her profession, but if she didn't she's being very discrete about it). And she has been good to her husband, standing up
for him to the end.
I snapped because I thought Tom was being snide about Biden's
cancer. Protrate cancer is usually treated with testosterone
inhibitors, and the build-up of natural estrogens without the
counter-balance of testosterone can make the patient quite feminine.
Hence the "Jill". I had no idea he as referring to the wife, I thought
he was talking about the President.
Her thesis?
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2020/12/18/whats-really-behind-the-flap-over-jill-bidens-doctorate/>
Can't be bothered to read it. Sorry. 80 pages of text? Not
about controversies in teaching. No way....
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the
Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp >> anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted. >> You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor, read her thesis.
Although I haven't read it, and won't read it, I think very few posting
here are capable of judging the merit of such a thesis.
Let me rephrase: I think _no_ one posting here is capable.
On 6/26/2025 8:36 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 10:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor >>> convicted of anything. And IMHO will never be.
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the >>>>> Presidency
His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp >>>> anything !!!!
She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted. >>>> You can't convict someone with dementia.
[]'s
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'. For some humor, read her >>> thesis.
Although I haven't read it, and won't read it, I think very few
posting here are capable of judging the merit of such a thesis.
Let me rephrase: I think _no_ one posting here is capable.
It would have been a B high school theme paper.
Sez you.
Andrew, you know I consider you to be the most well-read and thoughtful member of this forum. I don't, however, consider you qualified to 'over
rule' (as it were) the assessment of the Doctoral peer review process at well-established and respected university.
And not only; read
Sebastian Gorka's thesis, it's equally trivial.
ibid, with the caveat that Dr. Biden has dedicated her life to helping
those less fortunate than herself, whereas Dr. Gorka is just a fascist asshole.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2025 06:40:12 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 6/25/2025 5:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/25/2025 4:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 18:13:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Jill is? his gold digger 2d wife and she has neither been charged nor
wrote:
Jill Biden has now been foyund guilty of usurping the power of the
Presidency
????His sister? I'll bet you she was a repuglican. They'll usurp
anything !!!!
????She must be as old as Trump, so I doubt she'll be convicted.
You can't convict someone with dementia.
????[]'s
convicted of anything.? And IMHO will never be.
lol...sure, Jill is the 'gold digger' in the pantheon of First >Ladies....HAH!!!
p.s. She insists on being called 'Doctor'.? For some humor, read her
thesis.
Yup, that's the right you earn when you have a PhD.
A doctorate is not necessaily a PHD.
https://potomac.edu/phd-vs-doctorate/
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market" <https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
On 7/18/2025 12:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2025 15:40:52 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Farmers buying new large farm vehicles, and month after month growth in employment and continued growth in the market...
Wrong (as usual). Sales of farm machinery are decreasing.
(May 31, 2025)
"Farm machinery sales slump as manufacturers adjust to market" <https://www.farmprogress.com/farming-equipment/farm-machinery-sales-slump-as-industry-giants-cut-production-amid-market-uncertainty>
"Major agricultural equipment manufacturers are reducing production
and managing inventories as sales decline. The industry hopes for
market stabilization by 2025."
"U.S. sales, meanwhile, dropped in all categories, with total
agricultural tractor sales down 13% and combines falling 48% year to
date."
+1
I talk with farmers regularly. This is not a good year for
long term capital expenses.
Liebermann - is there some manner to show how smart you are without tripping over your own shoelaces? You AREN'T smart. You barely register on the intelligence scale. Without Google you couldn't say one thing accurately. And you continually show thatEnglish is a foreign language to you.
On Wed Jun 25 18:55:09 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:39:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring. Tedll us again about how you know how to program and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
MY boss.. wait, I WAS my boss. Doctors cannot be subordinate
to ANYONE. It's in our oath, We do what we think is correct. Our
obligation is to our patients, but we don't and cannot take orders
from them.
Don't like it, fire us but never give us orders as to what
medication or what procedures to use.
You can sue us if we are wrong ... a general once took me to
court because I refused to salute him. The judge suggested where he
could put his salute. I almost told the judge that he couldn't give
proctological prescriptions without a license but decided to keep it
to myself. That judge looked like he was in a very bad mood.
A patient once sued me because I refused to prescribe the
medicine she KNEW was best for her, because she's seen it on TV. The
judge asked me if I wanted her arrested....(I let her go).
As to anyone else, most bosses don't care how or when
management do things, as long as it works and is good for the company.
The only ones that have to worry about bosses are lowly
non-skilled workers. They need to keep an eye on the clock and check
every now and then their bosses don't catch them taking a non-approved
break.
That is surely why doctors prescribed mRNA vaccines, wearing masks and lockdowns. It must have been all of that independence. Was that in your oath too?
On Thu Jun 26 06:59:38 2025 zen cycle wrote:
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'.
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
Well, thank you for being honest that your company is notsituated on Mt. Washington but on the flatlands. There are less than
On Wed Jul 23 05:23:52 2025 zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/mississippi-
executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50-years-on-death-row/84316151007/
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
I suppose living in New Hampsure makes your brain as small as your state.
On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 21:46:01 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>--
wrote:
On Thu Jun 26 06:59:38 2025 zen cycle wrote:situated on Mt. Washington but on the flatlands. There are less than
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'. >>>
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
Well, thank you for being honest that your company is not
a million and a half people in the entire state and most of them make
Okies seem like college educated geniuses.
With about 1% illegal immigrants and (I believe) the lowest crime in
the Country.
On Fri Jun 27 11:58:11 2025 Roger Merriman wrote:
Fairly safe to say Tom has never met a Communist or any idea what it is,
and not alone in confusing it with broadly socialist states.
Roger, it is safe to say that you have never been able to actually think about the Great Britain that was and the Great Britain that is.
On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 20:21:36 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jul 23 05:23:52 2025 zen cycle wrote:
On 7/22/2025 8:49 AM, AMuzi wrote:
No, it does not.
As the difference between:
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2025/06/25/mississippi- >>>> executes-richard-jordan-after-nearly-50-years-on-death-row/84316151007/ >>>>
and:
https://innocenceproject.org/
Sorry, there is no analogy there.
I suppose living in New Hampsure makes your brain as small as your state.
Nope, but it does mean that you re living in the safest (lowest crime
rate) in the Nation.
--
cheers,
John B.
On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 19:36:23 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 18:55:09 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 2025 19:39:46 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Jun 25 15:34:02 2025 Zen Cycle wrote:
You'll tire of it soon enough. His shtick stales quickly.
#ell I certainly understand you finding my asking you for proof of you comments to be tiring.
Tedll us again about how you know how to program
and hold down a job where your boss doesn't care what you do.
MY boss.. wait, I WAS my boss. Doctors cannot be subordinate
to ANYONE. It's in our oath, We do what we think is correct. Our
obligation is to our patients, but we don't and cannot take orders
from them.
Don't like it, fire us but never give us orders as to what
medication or what procedures to use.
You can sue us if we are wrong ... a general once took me to
court because I refused to salute him. The judge suggested where he
could put his salute. I almost told the judge that he couldn't give
proctological prescriptions without a license but decided to keep it
to myself. That judge looked like he was in a very bad mood.
A patient once sued me because I refused to prescribe the
medicine she KNEW was best for her, because she's seen it on TV. The
judge asked me if I wanted her arrested....(I let her go).
As to anyone else, most bosses don't care how or when
management do things, as long as it works and is good for the company.
The only ones that have to worry about bosses are lowly
non-skilled workers. They need to keep an eye on the clock and check
every now and then their bosses don't catch them taking a non-approved
break.
That is surely why doctors prescribed mRNA vaccines, wearing masks and lockdowns. It must have been all of that independence. Was that in your oath too?
But "vaccines, wearing masks and lockdowns"does reduce the numbers of
deaths due to the sickness..... Thailand - strict adherence - 494
deaths / 1 million
U.S. adherence - 2849/1 million.
Nearly 6 times greater.
--
cheers,
John B.
On Wed, 06 Aug 2025 21:46:01 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Thu Jun 26 06:59:38 2025 zen cycle wrote:situated on Mt. Washington but on the flatlands.
To be fair, parts of the seacost are quite flat. The Granite State
Wheelmen host an annual century ride, which while claiming over 3000'
feet of total climbing, doesn't have any any individual climb over 100'. >>>
https://ridewithgps.com/events/346958-granite-state-wheelers-2025-seacoast-cen?lang=en
Well, thank you for being honest that your company is not
There are less than
a million and a half people in the entire state and most of them make
Okies seem like college educated geniuses.
With about 1% illegal immigrants and (I believe) the lowest crime in
the Country.
--
cheers,
John B.
Given that the current administration refuses to correct them, that
tells us something.
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
On Sat Jul 19 07:33:34 2025 zen cycle wrote:
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
People are so unhapp with President Trump, that you just watch how they disavow him in the midterms.
Flunky, you're pitiful.
On Thu, 07 Aug 2025 17:39:06 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jul 19 07:33:34 2025 zen cycle wrote:
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
People are so unhapp with President Trump, that you just watch how they disavow him in the midterms.
What vow are you talking about? I didn't take a vow to President
Trump. Did you?
If you mean that people, who lost their jobs, might
not vote for him again, that's quite possible. However, he's not
running for re-election in 2026 so everyone will need to wait for the
next presidential election in Nov 2028.
Flunky, you're pitiful.
On 8/7/2025 2:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 07 Aug 2025 17:39:06 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jul 19 07:33:34 2025 zen cycle wrote:
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
People are so unhapp with President Trump, that you just
watch how they disavow him in the midterms.
What vow are you talking about? I didn't take a vow to
President
Trump. Did you?
Yes, he did.
If you mean that people, who lost their jobs, might
not vote for him again, that's quite possible. However,
he's not
running for re-election in 2026 so everyone will need to
wait for the
next presidential election in Nov 2028.
Flunky, you're pitiful.
no, you fucking idiot, the jobs reports are pitiful. Any one
who like you blindly follows this "president" (or any
president for that matter) is pitiful. You're just too
fucking stupid to realize it.
On 8/10/2025 5:31 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 8/7/2025 2:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 07 Aug 2025 17:39:06 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jul 19 07:33:34 2025 zen cycle wrote:
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
People are so unhapp with President Trump, that you just
watch how they disavow him in the midterms.
What vow are you talking about? I didn't take a vow to
President
Trump. Did you?
Yes, he did.
If you mean that people, who lost their jobs, might
not vote for him again, that's quite possible. However,
he's not
running for re-election in 2026 so everyone will need to
wait for the
next presidential election in Nov 2028.
Flunky, you're pitiful.
no, you fucking idiot, the jobs reports are pitiful. Any one
who like you blindly follows this "president" (or any
president for that matter) is pitiful. You're just too
fucking stupid to realize it.
I don't know and I don't have a theory but the absolutely
unbelievable numbers from 2d % 3d quarter 2024 are equally
suspect.
It's been several years since BLS reported number of people
who paid payroll taxes last quarter. I've scoured their
website. It's no longer there. Everything else is
"adjusted" i.e., "edited for political purposes" to various
degrees in various directions for various purposes.
On Sun, 10 Aug 2025 09:13:43 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 8/10/2025 5:31 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 8/7/2025 2:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 07 Aug 2025 17:39:06 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sat Jul 19 07:33:34 2025 zen cycle wrote:
As well as https://adpemploymentreport.com/
"Private employers shed 33,000 jobs in June"
People are so unhapp with President Trump, that you just
watch how they disavow him in the midterms.
What vow are you talking about? I didn't take a vow to
President
Trump. Did you?
Yes, he did.
If you mean that people, who lost their jobs, might
not vote for him again, that's quite possible. However,
he's not
running for re-election in 2026 so everyone will need to
wait for the
next presidential election in Nov 2028.
Flunky, you're pitiful.
no, you fucking idiot, the jobs reports are pitiful. Any one
who like you blindly follows this "president" (or any
president for that matter) is pitiful. You're just too
fucking stupid to realize it.
I don't know and I don't have a theory but the absolutely
unbelievable numbers from 2d % 3d quarter 2024 are equally
suspect.
It's been several years since BLS reported number of people
who paid payroll taxes last quarter. I've scoured their
website. It's no longer there. Everything else is
"adjusted" i.e., "edited for political purposes" to various
degrees in various directions for various purposes.
Is this what you're looking for?
"THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION - JULY 2025" <https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf>
Page 8:
"6. Is the count of unemployed people limited to just those receiving unemployment insurance benefits?"
"No. The estimate of unemployment is based on a monthly sample survey
of households. All people who are without jobs and are actively
seeking and available to work are included among the unemployed."
Translation: The BLS does not count the number of people who have
been laid off. Instead, they use statistical sampling to estimate the
number of unemployed, which can be a population as little as 1500
workers for the entire US workforce (170.7 million in Jan 2025) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_force_in_the_United_States>
(The graphs of the labor force vs year are interesting).
Minimum sample size calculator: <https://www.calculator.net/sample-size-calculator.html>
For a time, unemployment was calculated by the number for unemployment insurance claims. The BLS decided that if someone was NOT collecting unemployment insurance, they have given up seeking employment and are therefore NOT counted as being unemployed.
On 6/23/2025 1:51 PM, Shadow wrote:politics you should be more up-to-date
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:38:02 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
Yeah Shadow, you should at least be up to date enough to know that the taliban was somehow being victimized in the conflict between Israel and Palestine/Hamas!
Explain again "the Biden administration ALLOWED the media to
proclaim"
I was under the impression that the President NEVER interfered
with the press. The press is ALWAYS free to publish whatever it wants
if you don't live in a dictatorship. If they lie, let justice sort
them out.
Has this changed since Trump took office? Are you now a
classic dictatorship? I believe Trump's friend in North Korea also
tells the press what they can publish.
I quite honestly shuddered when I read what you wrote. Maybe I
should be more up to date.
On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 21:15:41 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>politics you should be more up-to-date
wrote:
On Mon Jun 23 19:57:05 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 22:00:12 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 6/23/2025 12:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
On Sun Jun 22 12:37:39 2025 Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 22:33:38 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
In the UN, it is an international crime to target civilians and yet, the entire Democrat Party thinks it is OK as long as the civilians are Jews.
That's not what I read ANYWHERE.
ICE deporting Jews under Biden's presidency?
Sources?
(I mean real sources)
[]'s
When Israel was attacked and civilians murdered in hidious ways, kidnapped so that slower mrthods of torture could be implimented, the Biden administration allowed the media to proclaim that the Taliban were the victims. Before you comment on
We're witnessing mental illness in Tom. He's largely divorced from
reality on SO many topics.
Tom makes his own reality.
I'm going to try (again) to reduce my responses to him. But I know it's >> >a difficult task.
Probably a good idea. Tom seems to enjoy all the attention he's
getting. A good indicator is that as we find more of his errors, he
posts more messages full of errors. Today (June 23), he posted 26
messages (so far), which I suspect might be a record. I had some time
to burn today, so I responded to most of his messages. That wasted
about 4.5 hrs, even though I ignored a few really bizarre messages
which I found difficult to decode. I'll go back later tonight and
reply to a few I missed.
road of a place they've never been.Why don't you simply tell us all that I'm wrong? That the PLA didn't kidnap, murder and torture civilians?
You posted that about a month ago. Any reason why most of your recent comments are to old (and very old) postings?
Try again. The PLA is the Peoples Liberation Army: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Liberation_Army>
Were you thinking of the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization>
However, that's also wrong because they had nothing to do with
kidnapping and torturing people in Gaza. That was Hamas (Islamic
Resistance Movement):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas>
Mentioining that proves to you and Frank that I am seeking attention.
Nope. Wait another month and I might tell you how and why you are
seeking attention. These might help:
From ChatGPT4o:
"Why people lie for attention" <https://chatgpt.com/share/68880228-9fb0-800c-9511-dc50ce000897>
"Lying for Attention: Understanding the Causes and Consequences" <https://liedetectortest.com/psychology/lying-for-attention-understanding-the-causes-and-consequences>
"Understanding histrionic personality disorder and lying" <https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/histrionic-personality-disorder-and-lying>
You and he are deathly afraid that people will come to the conclusion that I worked for 50 years as an EE and you worked for none. I guess that is what happens to those who consider themselves experts at everything. Including how much mud was on the
Repeating your lie will not make it come true. You can only dream.
Also, denigrating my reputation, knowledge or experience is not going magically make your claims come true. I could be evil incarnate (or
worse) and you would still be Tom, the compulsive liar.
PLA is polylactic acid, a thermoplastic.
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