On Sat Jun 21 20:12:02 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back but

I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts.

What do you know about the conditions? Must you and Liebermann always pretend to be experts about things you know nothing of?

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On Sun Jun 22 10:30:00 2025 zen cycle wrote:

Not for an 80 year old. Tommy insists he can only sustain 90 watts. https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/q35jywK7/average-speeds
"It appears that good riders at 60 can average about 90 watts of full
time power. "

But Flunky has told us severl times that he is averaging 20 mph or 800 watts. That is pro racer levels and he thinks that we're believing him. This is not to mention that he clsimed that he did 2, 200 mile rides and everaged over 20 mph. He even provided
a GPS chart.

I believe him, don't you?

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On Sun Jun 22 10:25:45 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 10:30:00 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 9:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 20:12:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back

but I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can >>> do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts. >>

This is easier and includes more parameters.
I had to guesstimate on some of the values because Tom doesn't
disclose which bicycle he's riding, how much he weight, roadway slope,
etc.

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>
To maintain a ground speed of 12.29 mph into a 25 mph headwind, Tom's
pedaling needs to produce 396.28 watts of power.
(Punch the Units: Metric button to change everything to metric).

At 8.18 mph, 217 watts of power is required. Yeah, that's more
realistic.

Not for an 80 year old. Tommy insists he can only sustain 90 watts. >https://rec.bicycles.tech.narkive.com/q35jywK7/average-speeds
"It appears that good riders at 60 can average about 90 watts of full
time power. "

Oops. There was no provision in the Steve Gribble online calculator
for power reduction with increasing age. More accurately, I didn't
notice and forgot about age. What I did was use the results to
determine what might be considered "realistic". Unfortunately, the
data was not broken down by age. The data seemed to be distributed
for all ages, so I just looked for the 50% median peak in the
distribution curve for males, which is about 260 watts.

"How does your cycling power output compare?" <https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2018/06/how-does-your-cycling-power-output-compare>

<https://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html?units=imperial&rp_wr=199.999&rp_wb=17&rp_a=5.9998&rp_cd=0.63&rp_dtl=2&ep_crr=0.01&ep_rho=0.078035&ep_g=0&ep_headwind=25&p2v=200&v2p=22>

Without a headwind, 8.18 mph requires on 47 watts of power.

The reason that Liebermann knows so much about power output is because he ride a bike so much. What is his implication - that I was riding at 400 watts on the way into the wind and none at all on the way back which turned out not to be downwind at all
but with the wind coming from 90 degrees to the right? The route out and the one back on this occassion were exactly the same. Only the wind was changed to protect the innocent.

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On Sat Jun 21 20:12:02 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back but

I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts.

I think that my Garmin was not recording moving only speed because I droped the group in both directiond and had to stop and let them catch up. Drag cannot be easily determined by knowing the speed of the bike and the speed of the wind so:

1. I would suggest that 400 watts is probably too high.
2. The low average speed is very close to what I was recording when I didn't have moving speed averages. So I think that the 1030 wasn't recording average moving speed but the speed of the entire ride including the time at the coffee shop.

One of the guys in the group rides often and is 15 years younger than me and I was dropping hin with the rest. And the ride without the wind on the previous Thursday was using the 830 and was over 11 mph without any strong headwind.

So it appears to me that you probably shouldn't pay any attention to Liebermann since he is nothing but background noise in the best of times. His reference was directly applying speed to power So what does that mean when I got a tailwind for a quarter
of a mile and was doing 22 mph on flat ground? Do you think that I was generating 800 watts? Even if I had a power hub or two power reporting pedals or cranks I wouldn't believe that if it reported those numbers. I have no faith in devices that meansure
power by flex. Two of the guys are normally faster than me and the other one wasn't feeling good. I was feeling better than normal.

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On Sun Jun 22 10:39:33 2025 Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 16:17:20 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:

On Sat Jun 21 20:12:02 2025 Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 6/21/2025 4:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:

We had a 25 mph headwind all the way out with 35 mph gusts.I wouold be riding along working pretty hard at 12.5 mph and as the gusts hit I would be instantly at 11 mph. Normally this would be somewhat compensated for by a tailwind on the way back

but I guess it was more a cross wind as we turned back.

Congratulations! 12.5 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes quite a bit of
power, something close to 400 Watts. I'm very amazed a guy your age can
do that!

23 miles and average speed of only 8.18 miles per hour average ...

Ah. 8.18 mph sounds much more believable. That might be around 200 Watts.

What do you know about the conditions? Must you and Liebermann always pretend to be experts about things you know nothing of?

My alleged lack of expertise has no effect on your intelligence or
expertise. I could be a Nobel Prize winner or a complete idiot and
you would still be Tom, who can't discuss technical calculations and
who delivers insults in place of knowledge.

Tom: Do you really believe that insulting people will make you seem
smarter? Judging by your over-use of the phrase "always pretend to be experts about things you know nothing of", it's quite possible.

Liebermann, I am not insulting you, you are insulting yourself, your entire attitude kept you out of work after spending money for 6 years in a college. When you pull that know it all attitude on us when you have never worked in the business above
technician exactly what do you expect? People to bow to you?

For years I tried to make allowances for your blind stupidity and even attempted to make friends with you. But that turned out to be impossible and you just continued your attitude that you actually know something. If you do know something you've kept it
well hidden and masked it with stupid things to say.

You're not here to learn anything sbout bicycle technology, you are only here to show everyone how smart you are and you aren't. I'm sorry for you but that enrages you even more.

You JUST referenced a power vs speed chart that was completely BS. Did you EVEN ASK YOURSELF what a bicycle in the real world acts like? You can't even reference things properly. Several postings ago you claimed that you couldn't report the proper depth
of mud on the road because I didn't give you the proper information. My claim of mud on the road had to be verified by YOU? My claim that there was actually water behind a dam had to be verified by YOU? You are a blithering idiot and I am insulting you
by pointing it out?

Maybe you can criticize the fact that I read all of the none fiction books in three or four libraries. After all, you couldn't even pass a 4 year degree in 4 years. I'm thinking that you knew more about electronics going in to college than coming out
because those instructors had to be put in their place. Don't worry though since Krygowski worships the ground you walk on. Just ask him if you don't believe me.

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