On 3/24/2022 3:25 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while.  Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine.  Something basically at the bottom of the heap.  A machine in the X2 class.  Harbor Freight, Little machine shop, Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this
class.

There are a couple issues.  I have absolutely no use for this machine
beyond the video series I want to make, so I don't want to spend a grand (give or take) on it for six (maybe a couple more) mold making videos
and then just throw it on a shelf.  All of them have mind numbingly slow spindles for aluminum machining.  Usually peaking around 2500-2800 RPM.

I could do the video series with my South Bend SB1028F, but I'm sure I
would get criticism for using a $24K machine with power feeds and DROs.
I want to show that some useful things can be done with a low end manual count the turns machine.  I may show the same mold being made on both machines, but the goal is to show useful work being done on a POS
countertop milling machine.

Now before anybody say "you can't" or "its not worth it," well I
actually have a lower end (in some ways) milling machine that has got
the entire shop back up and running in a pinch.  I've got a Harbor
Freight 42976.  Its a round column mill/drill much smaller than the
RF30/31 with all the failings of a round column mill and it doesn't even
have a fine feed on the quill.  Just a crappy side collar drill stop and
a quill lock.  I was able to do actual milling with it when I had no
choice because every other milling machine in the shop required air to operate and I needed to making an adapter plate for a new pump on the compressor.  I used stacks of gage blocks to set the depth on the stop,
and then used the quill lock.  I can make parts with it, but that's a
kind of torture even somebody with an X2 class machine won't and
shouldn't have to deal with.

I did contact a few companies to see if they wanted to partner on the
idea.  One tried to sell me a mill outside the scope of what I wanted to use.  (Three times out of the scope)  Harbor Freight never responds to
me so I didn't even try to contact them.  Well, I did, but after looking through their contact options I couldn't find anything that sounded
right.  One company sent me an email saying they were forwarding the
idea to their marketing department.  None of the rest I contacted even responded, which is about what I expected.

The thing is I am not in the video business.  I don't get paid for
creating video content.  Nobody pays me to *tutor them.  I don't want to spend a grand on a machine that other than this short videos series I
have no use for.  I just want to make this series of videos as a
personal challenge and maybe to help somebody else along.  I'm inspired
to do it.  Not motivated by making money to do it.  It may (probably
not) even cost me some business.

*I actually have been contacted a couple times by people who want to pay
me to tutor them on some subjects, but I'm not really as qualified as I sometimes appear.

My original idea was to just make some fishing related molds this way. Something somebody who was modestly intelligent and capable could follow
along with, but I've been considering a couple ideas for other things
like small plastic sorting trays someboy could crank out on a simple
injection machine like a Buster Beagle or an LNS Technologies.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while. Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine. Something basically at the bottom of the
heap. A machine in the X2 class. Harbor Freight, Little machine shop,
Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this
class.

There are a couple issues. I have absolutely no use for this machine
beyond the video series I want to make, so I don't want to spend a grand
(give or take) on it for six (maybe a couple more) mold making videos
and then just throw it on a shelf. All of them have mind numbingly slow spindles for aluminum machining. Usually peaking around 2500-2800 RPM.

I could do the video series with my South Bend SB1028F, but I'm sure I
would get criticism for using a $24K machine with power feeds and DROs.
I want to show that some useful things can be done with a low end manual
count the turns machine. I may show the same mold being made on both
machines, but the goal is to show useful work being done on a POS
countertop milling machine.

Now before anybody say "you can't" or "its not worth it," well I
actually have a lower end (in some ways) milling machine that has got
the entire shop back up and running in a pinch. I've got a Harbor
Freight 42976. Its a round column mill/drill much smaller than the
RF30/31 with all the failings of a round column mill and it doesn't even
have a fine feed on the quill. Just a crappy side collar drill stop and
a quill lock. I was able to do actual milling with it when I had no
choice because every other milling machine in the shop required air to
operate and I needed to making an adapter plate for a new pump on the compressor. I used stacks of gage blocks to set the depth on the stop,
and then used the quill lock. I can make parts with it, but that's a
kind of torture even somebody with an X2 class machine won't and
shouldn't have to deal with.

I did contact a few companies to see if they wanted to partner on the
idea. One tried to sell me a mill outside the scope of what I wanted to
use. (Three times out of the scope) Harbor Freight never responds to
me so I didn't even try to contact them. Well, I did, but after looking through their contact options I couldn't find anything that sounded
right. One company sent me an email saying they were forwarding the
idea to their marketing department. None of the rest I contacted even responded, which is about what I expected.

The thing is I am not in the video business. I don't get paid for
creating video content. Nobody pays me to *tutor them. I don't want to
spend a grand on a machine that other than this short videos series I
have no use for. I just want to make this series of videos as a
personal challenge and maybe to help somebody else along. I'm inspired
to do it. Not motivated by making money to do it. It may (probably
not) even cost me some business.

*I actually have been contacted a couple times by people who want to pay
me to tutor them on some subjects, but I'm not really as qualified as I sometimes appear.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1irht$3h0$1@dont-email.me...

My original idea was to just make some fishing related molds this way. Something somebody who was modestly intelligent and capable could follow
along with, but I've been considering a couple ideas for other things
like small plastic sorting trays someboy could crank out on a simple
injection machine like a Buster Beagle or an LNS Technologies.

------------------------

It's challenging enough to mill an accurately sized rectangular cutout on a dial-only mill with backlash.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1ir47$vs0$1@dont-email.me...

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while. Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine. Something basically at the bottom of the
heap. A machine in the X2 class. Harbor Freight, Little machine shop,
Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this
class. ...

You should have mentioned that earlier so I could have considered it during
my last root canal.

I don't know how to explain manual feeds to a student without telling them
to copy what I just did, i.e. in person. I learned that on a Bridgeport by breaking an endmill.

When I took night classes at first I couldn't distinguish problems with my technique from misadjustments of the machine, like loose gibs or chips in
the chuck mount.

On my Clausing I drew diagonal arrows beside the dials to relate handle rotation to table motion.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/24/2022 4:15 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t1ir47$vs0$1@dont-email.me...

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while.  Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine.  Something basically at the bottom of the heap.  A machine in the X2 class.  Harbor Freight, Little machine shop, Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this
class. ...

You should have mentioned that earlier so I could have considered it
during my last root canal.

I don't know how to explain manual feeds to a student without telling
them to copy what I just did, i.e. in person. I learned that on a
Bridgeport by breaking an endmill.

When I took night classes at first I couldn't distinguish problems with
my technique from misadjustments of the machine, like loose gibs or
chips in the chuck mount.

On my Clausing I drew diagonal arrows beside the dials to relate handle rotation to table motion.

HA! I've got a buddy who is a modestly intelligent self taught
machinist. Like myself with the help of several million pepple on the Internet. One day some years ago I noticed on the old milling machine
he used to have he had used a paint marker to write climb and
conventional with direction arrows on the side of the table.

After I stopped laughing I took the time to explain it to him.

Yep, I have some ideas about how to get backlash and other fundamentals
across. I used to tutor computer programming and economics in college.
I found that those who want to learn are much easier to teach than
those who wanted me to do their assignment for them. The latter were
not very happy with me.

*** Tangent Alert ***

Speaking of tutoring. One day in the computer lab I was reading a book
when an older student came in. She came over to me and said she was
told I was the guy to look for if she wanted help. I sat down and
proceeded to explain each problem she was facing and give her several
examples of how it was tackled. Then I would say let me know when you
hit another problem and I would go back to my book. After about the
third time I very carefully worked her through how to tackle the same
problem and made up another teaching example on the fly she asked,
"Where is this in my assignment."

I told her it wasn't. It wasn't my job to do her home work. It was my
job to teach her how. "Would you like me to show you another example?
Is there a point of how to do this you don't understand that you need
explained again or differently?"

I could tell she wasn't very happy when she said, "Do you know who I am?
My husband is the mayor of 'some town I never lived in.'"

I told her I was giving her the same help I give everybody who asks for
help. Explanations of how things work, and examples that match both the assignments and my explanation. "I'm more than happy to teach you, but
I'm not going to do your work for you."

She poked at the keyboard for a few more minutes in a huff, before I
went back to my book. I think all her bodily orifices were puckered
when she stormed out a few minutes later. The visible ones certainly
were. I went back to my book and then another student came over to ask
me for some help. They said that the explanations they had overheard
had helped them with their work, but there was still something they
would like explained. I went to work.

My next shift in the computer lab one of the instructors in the
department let me know that Mrs 1st Lady to the Mayor had reported me to
the head of the department for refusing to help her, and that I just sat
there reading my book. I let her know I had in fact gone out of my way
to help even to the point of explaining it several times and giving
multiple examples of the application. I even pulled up my computer log
and showed the code snippets I had written to demo the application.
Miss upwardly mobile instructor said, "Don't you know her husband is the
mayor of 'some town I never lived in?'"

"Yep. She told me that when she made it clear she didn't want to learn.
That she just wanted me to do her assignments."

When my shift was over I headed over to the dean of Students office and reported Mrs 1st Lady to the Mayor for trying to get somebody else to do
her homework. Then I headed over to the Deans office to report Miss
Upwardly Mobile Instructor for trying to intimidate me over it. I
ordinarily blew off students (and instructors) who didn't want to do
their job, but that sounded like it could come back to bite me. I never
saw Mrs 1st Lady To The Mayor in the computer lab again, and Miss
Upwardly Mobile was very very polite and always addressed me in a very
civil tone as Mr La Londe after that. Like maybe she was afraid of me?
I guess because I wore leather jacket and rode a motorcycle she hadn't realized I was smart enough to go cover my ass if people got stupid.

Yes I remember their names, but it was a long time ago, and how anybody
treats them today should be about how they act today, not something
stupid they did 30 years ago.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/24/2022 4:23 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t1irht$3h0$1@dont-email.me...

My original idea was to just make some fishing related molds this way. Something somebody who was modestly intelligent and capable could follow along with, but I've been considering a couple ideas for other things
like small plastic sorting trays someboy could crank out on a simple injection machine like a Buster Beagle or an LNS Technologies.

------------------------

It's challenging enough to mill an accurately sized rectangular cutout
on a dial-only mill with backlash.

Yes. Yes it is.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1j1nh$elr$1@dont-email.me...

On 3/24/2022 4:15 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1ir47$vs0$1@dont-email.me...

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while. Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine. Something basically at the bottom of the
heap. A machine in the X2 class. Harbor Freight, Little machine shop, Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this
class. ...

You should have mentioned that earlier so I could have considered it
during my last root canal.

I don't know how to explain manual feeds to a student without telling them
to copy what I just did, i.e. in person. I learned that on a Bridgeport by breaking an endmill.

When I took night classes at first I couldn't distinguish problems with my technique from misadjustments of the machine, like loose gibs or chips in
the chuck mount.

On my Clausing I drew diagonal arrows beside the dials to relate handle rotation to table motion.

HA! I've got a buddy who is a modestly intelligent self taught
machinist. Like myself with the help of several million pepple on the Internet. One day some years ago I noticed on the old milling machine
he used to have he had used a paint marker to write climb and
conventional with direction arrows on the side of the table.

After I stopped laughing I took the time to explain it to him.

--------------------------
It's easy enough to remember the motion transformations when I have nothing else to do, but not when I'm fully absorbed in solving a problem. --------------------------

Yep, I have some ideas about how to get backlash and other fundamentals
across. I used to tutor computer programming and economics in college.
I found that those who want to learn are much easier to teach than
those who wanted me to do their assignment for them. The latter were
not very happy with me.

*** Tangent Alert ***

Speaking of tutoring. One day in the computer lab I was reading a book
when an older student came in. She came over to me and said she was
told I was the guy to look for if she wanted help. I sat down and
proceeded to explain each problem she was facing and give her several
examples of how it was tackled. Then I would say let me know when you
hit another problem and I would go back to my book. After about the
third time I very carefully worked her through how to tackle the same
problem and made up another teaching example on the fly she asked,
"Where is this in my assignment."

I told her it wasn't. It wasn't my job to do her home work. It was my
job to teach her how. "Would you like me to show you another example?
Is there a point of how to do this you don't understand that you need
explained again or differently?"

I could tell she wasn't very happy when she said, "Do you know who I am?
My husband is the mayor of 'some town I never lived in.'"

I told her I was giving her the same help I give everybody who asks for
help. Explanations of how things work, and examples that match both the assignments and my explanation. "I'm more than happy to teach you, but
I'm not going to do your work for you."

She poked at the keyboard for a few more minutes in a huff, before I
went back to my book. I think all her bodily orifices were puckered
when she stormed out a few minutes later. The visible ones certainly
were. I went back to my book and then another student came over to ask
me for some help. They said that the explanations they had overheard
had helped them with their work, but there was still something they
would like explained. I went to work.

My next shift in the computer lab one of the instructors in the
department let me know that Mrs 1st Lady to the Mayor had reported me to
the head of the department for refusing to help her, and that I just sat
there reading my book. I let her know I had in fact gone out of my way
to help even to the point of explaining it several times and giving
multiple examples of the application. I even pulled up my computer log
and showed the code snippets I had written to demo the application.
Miss upwardly mobile instructor said, "Don't you know her husband is the
mayor of 'some town I never lived in?'"

"Yep. She told me that when she made it clear she didn't want to learn.
That she just wanted me to do her assignments."

When my shift was over I headed over to the dean of Students office and reported Mrs 1st Lady to the Mayor for trying to get somebody else to do
her homework. Then I headed over to the Deans office to report Miss
Upwardly Mobile Instructor for trying to intimidate me over it. I
ordinarily blew off students (and instructors) who didn't want to do
their job, but that sounded like it could come back to bite me. I never
saw Mrs 1st Lady To The Mayor in the computer lab again, and Miss
Upwardly Mobile was very very polite and always addressed me in a very
civil tone as Mr La Londe after that. Like maybe she was afraid of me?
I guess because I wore leather jacket and rode a motorcycle she hadn't realized I was smart enough to go cover my ass if people got stupid.

Yes I remember their names, but it was a long time ago, and how anybody
treats them today should be about how they act today, not something
stupid they did 30 years ago.

--------------------------
Nice story. I sympathize with you because I had to herd co-op engineering students through CAD schematic design and quietly suffer the damage Ph.Ds
did in my company machine shop. Fortunately I had my own machines at home,
and permission to charge for time on them. I was also a black leather biker
who was presumed stupid and hostile until proven otherwise.

The worst was when I was presumed to be stupid, hostile and French Canadien because I didn't realize I had passed from Quebec into New Brunswick and
spoke to a store clerk in French. She was sooo glad to find I was USian,
which wasn't usually the case.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/25/2022 4:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

The worst was when I was presumed to be stupid, hostile and French
Canadien because I didn't realize I had passed from Quebec into New
Brunswick and spoke to a store clerk in French. She was sooo glad to
find I was USian, which wasn't usually the case.

Oh, French Canadian!!! That's unforgivable outside Quebec. LOL. As
I've mentioned before I was a contractor for a while. Here in sunny
South West Arizona we get a fair share of snowbirds. A fair number of
them Canadian, and a decent percentage are French Canadian. There is a
certain reputation for bluntness breaking over into rudeness. I found
as a contractor installing alarm systems, home theater, and satellite TV systems my best response was to be blunt bordering on rude right back.
I also quickly discovered I had better be right. LOL.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1kk17$173d$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/25/2022 4:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

The worst was when I was presumed to be stupid, hostile and French
Canadien because I didn't realize I had passed from Quebec into New
Brunswick and spoke to a store clerk in French. She was sooo glad to find
I was USian, which wasn't usually the case.

Oh, French Canadian!!! That's unforgivable outside Quebec. LOL. As
I've mentioned before I was a contractor for a while. Here in sunny
South West Arizona we get a fair share of snowbirds. A fair number of
them Canadian, and a decent percentage are French Canadian. There is a
certain reputation for bluntness breaking over into rudeness. I found
as a contractor installing alarm systems, home theater, and satellite TV systems my best response was to be blunt bordering on rude right back.
I also quickly discovered I had better be right. LOL.

----------------------------

They come by rudeness honestly: https://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/are-parisians-rude-5-tips-to-minimize-bad-treatment.html

I may need to find someone with your experience locally for hands-on help
with this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DTQKB52/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

I couldn't resist the price and features. So far I can make it be a WiFi hotspot and connect to it, but that's all. Some of the problem may be the nearly obsolete laptop and cell phone I have to connect with, and some my unfamiliarity with networking, which was IT's guarded fiefdom. More work is required.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/25/2022 10:09 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1kk17$173d$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/25/2022 4:34 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

The worst was when I was presumed to be stupid, hostile and French
Canadien because I didn't realize I had passed from Quebec into New
Brunswick and spoke to a store clerk in French. She was sooo glad to
find I was USian, which wasn't usually the case.

Oh, French Canadian!!! That's unforgivable outside Quebec. LOL. As
I've mentioned before I was a contractor for a while. Here in sunny
South West Arizona we get a fair share of snowbirds. A fair number of
them Canadian, and a decent percentage are French Canadian. There is a certain reputation for bluntness breaking over into rudeness. I found
as a contractor installing alarm systems, home theater, and satellite TV systems my best response was to be blunt bordering on rude right back.
I also quickly discovered I had better be right. LOL.

----------------------------

They come by rudeness honestly:

https://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/are-parisians-rude-5-tips-to-minimize-bad-treatment.html

I may need to find someone with your experience locally for hands-on
help with this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DTQKB52/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

I couldn't resist the price and features. So far I can make it be a WiFi hotspot and connect to it, but that's all. Some of the problem may be
the nearly obsolete laptop and cell phone I have to connect with, and
some my unfamiliarity with networking, which was IT's guarded fiefdom.
More work is required.

Typically an IP camera, DVR or NVR is used on a LAN whether wired or
WiFi. Sometimes you can connect directly to some of those types of
devices using WiFi or Blue Tooth. That is a local direct connection.

For remote access you typically connect it to a LAN with a router. The
router interfaces between a broadband source and the local area network.
Then you go into the router setup and use port forwarding (or a DMZ
setting) to direct outside access to that device. Then on a cell phone
or computer with Internet access you might either be able to connect to
the device either by standard browser or using an application from the
device manufacturer.

If your LAN is setup for dynamic DNS its best to also set static IP
addresses for those devices so you can actually find them. Some routers
will run both static and dynamic IP addresses. Others will reserve an
IP address for a mac address.

Even locally some devices will require ports to be set and reserved for
them. Others will not. You can just connect to them locally with their
local IP address.

Locally you might connect using using something that looks like this: 192.168.1.183 or 192.168.1.183:80

Remotely you would have a port (or ports) assigned to forward to that IP address. Then with your remote device you would connect to your LAN
using the public IP address using something like this:
74.231.7.43:3200

If your network is setup with a a DMZ and you have placed your device in
the DMZ you might just enter:
74.231.7.43

Most likely that will not work because the device is expecting it to
come from a port, but some will work.

Lastly its possible your device may have the ability to use an outside
third party server. It pings the outside server periodically to check
to see if there is a request to communicate. Kind of like using an
instant messenger program or some social media sites. There is 2 way
contact often enough that it seems like continuous communication. If
this is the case that third part could monitor or have access to your communication with your device. Its also possible there may be a cost associated with that third party (or manufacturer's) server. It allows
you to communicate without knowing how to setup your network, but it has
its risks or costs.

Now the other issue. Most commercial business broad band services come
with a static public IP address. Most residential broad band services
do not unless you pay extra for it. Usually they are dynamic, but
persistent. That means they are reserved for you, but if you are
offline and another device comes online your IP address "could" be
assign to another customer. Sometimes your public IP address changes
all the time. Its dynamic and anytime you go offline and come back on
it could be different. This can make it from difficult to impossible to connect. You don't know what the public IP address is. There are
several ways to deal with that. The third party server with constant communication is one. A dyndns server is another, but they usually
require a notification ap to be constantly running in the background on
a device on the network. Some DVR and NVRs have their own ability to
work with a DYNDNS service built in. There are free DYDNDNS services,
but the usually require monthly direct validations. There are paid
DYNDNS services that won't require you to logon and validate your
account. These do not give access to your device on your LAN. They
just accept a periodic ping from the application running on your network
that tells them what your current public IP address is. Then they
associate a name with that IP address through their server. Instead of entering an IP address in your browser or video viewing application you
would enter something like:
JimWilkinsVideo.dyddns.org:3200

If your cellphone is your broadband device for your LAN then you will
not be able to connect remotely with your cell phone. Your LAN won't
have a broadband service while your are sunning yourself on the river in
Yuma. Fracking snowbird!



--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1l6fk$3ot$1@dont-email.me...

Typically an IP camera, DVR or NVR is used on a LAN whether wired or
WiFi. Sometimes you can connect directly to some of those types of
devices using WiFi or Blue Tooth. That is a local direct connection.

-------------------
I think the local direct connection to a spare cellphone is what I want. I would have it alarm if it detects motion, and keep the phone nearby in the house. The camera has 128GB to record video internally. I just acquired a pre-5G Xfinity cell phone to use (risk) for this.

I don't turn on my iPhone to enable the data-limited cellular Internet connection unless I'm using it, and run as much as possible on machines
without Net access. This laptop's hard drive has been completely backed up off-line with Seagate DiscWizard (Acronis) which can restore the bootable system to another hard drive if this one dies or is compromised. Beware the Bear.

"Sheenwang Seller:
If without wifi, you could use the AP mode to connect the camera bulb with
your phone. Here is the way to setup: Press the rest button 3 times, the
camera will emit a WiFi hotspot named "camera_xxxx", the mobile phone
connect to this hotspot. Open the APP "iCSee", choose the "AP direct connection". In this way you could view and record with a memory card only within 30 meters."

But the hotspot has a different SSID and requires a password I found
elsewhere. iCSee gets bad reviews and isn't going on my precious iPhone. The
PC version of it was "file not found". A substitute didn't see the camera.
More work required.

This is not at the top of the spring to-do list. Are highly visible but disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>> Are highly visible but
disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so. I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras. Usually it went
something like this:


RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them: Do you have any broken cameras?

Me: No. What good would that do m?

Them: Well I want to put them up to scare people off.

Me: Oh, I can order you some good looking dummy cameras.

Them: I was just hoping you had some cameras that weren't any good that
I could get.

Me: Why would I save broken cameras?

Them: Well people might want to use them to scare people off.

Me: Would those people be willing to pay for them?

Them: No they aren't any good. You would just throw them away.

Me: Um, yes. I threw them away.

Them: So could you save them for me and give me a call when you get some?

Me: Would you be willing to pay for my time and shelf space to do that?

Them: Why would I pay for hem. They are broken.

Me: Exactly. They are broken. I threw them away.

Them: Well could you save them for me?

Me: I could, but that would take time and shelf space to inventory them
for you and you have made it clear you won't pay for my time.

Them: You are just going to throw them away!!!

Me: Yes. It takes less time to toss them in a nearby dumpster than to
put them in the truck, haul them back to the shop, clear a space on the
shelf in the stock room, and call you. Then because you want them for
free you won't value my time and I may have to store them for you for an indeterminate amount of time if its not convenient for you.

Them: You are an asshole!

Me: My customers don't think so.

Them: Yeah, well I will never be your customer.

Me: I know. You said that at the very beginning. I was just being
polite in case you might change your mind.

Them: Screw you.

Me: Hold on a second. I need your address.

Them: Huh! Why?

Me: I need to know where to send the invoice for this ten minute phone
support call.


CLICK


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/25/2022 8:12 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>>  Are highly visible but disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so.  I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras.  Usually it went
something like this:

RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them:  Do you have any broken cameras?

Me:  No.  What good would that do m?

Them:  Well I want to put them up to scare people off.

Me:  Oh, I can order you some good looking dummy cameras.

Them:  I was just hoping you had some cameras that weren't any good that
I could get.

Me:  Why would I save broken cameras?

Them:  Well people might want to use them to scare people off.

Me:  Would those people be willing to pay for them?

Them:  No they aren't any good.  You would just throw them away.

Me:  Um, yes.  I threw them away.

Them: So could you save them for me and give me a call when you get some?

Me:  Would you be willing to pay for my time and shelf space to do that?

Them:  Why would I pay for hem.  They are broken.

Me:  Exactly.  They are broken.  I threw them away.

Them:  Well could you save them for me?

Me:  I could, but that would take time and shelf space to inventory them
for you and you have made it clear you won't pay for my time.

Them:  You are just going to throw them away!!!

Me:  Yes.  It takes less time to toss them in a nearby dumpster than to
put them in the truck, haul them back to the shop, clear a space on the
shelf in the stock room, and call you.  Then because you want them for
free you won't value my time and I may have to store them for you for an indeterminate amount of time if its not convenient for you.

Them:  You are an asshole!

Me:  My customers don't think so.

Them:  Yeah, well I will never be your customer.

Me:  I know.  You said that at the very beginning.  I was just being polite in case you might change your mind.

Them:  Screw you.

Me:  Hold on a second.  I need your address.

Them: Huh!  Why?

Me:  I need to know where to send the invoice for this ten minute phone support call.

CLICK

Have you noticed that those who vote democrat are the same ones who
are more likely to want sumpin for nuffin ?
--
Snag
My rights don't end
where your fear begins .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1lp9f$1oma$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>> Are highly visible but
disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so. I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras. Usually it went
something like this:


RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them: Do you have any broken cameras?
----------------

I appreciate your position, however that question brings results often
enough to be worth asking. There may be stuff they haven't cleaned out of
the truck or store room yet, like the replaced-on-schedule Kong descender a cable repairman gave me. (I prefer a Prusik unless the rope is icy.)

I built my bucket loader attachment from cheap used hydraulics that needed
new seals, and my sawmill largely from second-hand steel at $0.25/Lb. The
solar panels that power my freezer had been salvaged from old parking
kiosks. A large fraction of the pressure-treated wood in my firewood sheds
came from a contractor's scrap pile. He was happy to save the dumpster cost, and it bothers me to see useful things go into landfills when I can
repurpose them into something I want. I don't collect junk but I'll fix something once to gain the knowledge.

My washing machine is a 1960's nearly bullet-proof Maytag that I found
dumped in the woods where I was logging. A little rubber parts swapping with another cured its leak and then I stripped out the automatic controls to
make it more suited to alternate energy, specifically water heated on the
wood stove instead of with electricity. Most of what I have is old enough to
be all steel and maintainable, like the Maytag. Since Accounting isn't
pressing me to cut costs I can make it better than new. If I can fix and
modify my things I own them instead of them owning me.

Modern computerized equipment can be impossible to repair even when I work
for the company that made it, if the PROM is locked and original programmer didn't leave the source code when he quit. I've had to recover (FDISK /MBR)
a hard drive that the former programmer booby-trapped to wipe its boot
sector, and then reconstruct and revise the code on it. He was demanding
$600 an hour to consult. I did sympathize with him, but managed to fix everything myself and avoid a fight.

I realize that you can trade time for money earned while I can trade only
for money saved. When I was working and could charge overtime the make/buy balance was different, however during downturns startups fail and industrial R&D jobs vanish and I had free time to cut firewood and fix things, or take interesting jobs like the Renaissance Fair.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Snag" wrote in message news:t1n0de$9cm$1@dont-email.me...

Have you noticed that those who vote democrat are the same ones who
are more likely to want sumpin for nuffin ?
--------------------
Well, I'm not a Democrat, not "entitled", and end that conversation very quickly with "I won't know unless I ask." Yankee thrift is more about not wasting things or overspending to satisfy your ego. http://archive.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2009/03/08/yankee_thrift_personified/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 19:08:12 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

I think the local direct connection to a spare cellphone is what I want. I >would have it alarm if it detects motion, and keep the phone nearby in the >house. The camera has 128GB to record video internally. I just acquired a >pre-5G Xfinity cell phone to use (risk) for this.

I read some of the reviews for your camera yesterday. Not so good...

Did you find this reddit page yet? May give you some clues...

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/ndjn4a/is_it_possible_to_connect_p2p_cameras_without/

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 10:52:10 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

Thanks. For the price I can accept it being only a scarecrow, but it appears >functional and is worth some effort. The cell phone's owner discovered that >the store can copy his stuff onto his new phone so he needs it back for a >while.

I buy stuff with that thought in mind too. It usually works out okay,
but for the times it doesn't I'm not surprised nor out much $. For me
it's way more fun than going to a Casino where I already KNOW they are
out to screw you ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t1n72r$qfd$1@dont-email.me...

On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 19:08:12 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

I think the local direct connection to a spare cellphone is what I want. I >would have it alarm if it detects motion, and keep the phone nearby in the >house. The camera has 128GB to record video internally. I just acquired a >pre-5G Xfinity cell phone to use (risk) for this.

I read some of the reviews for your camera yesterday. Not so good...

Did you find this reddit page yet? May give you some clues...

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/ndjn4a/is_it_possible_to_connect_p2p_cameras_without/

------------------

Thanks. For the price I can accept it being only a scarecrow, but it appears functional and is worth some effort. The cell phone's owner discovered that
the store can copy his stuff onto his new phone so he needs it back for a while.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/26/2022 6:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t1lp9f$1oma$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>>  Are highly visible but disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so.  I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras.  Usually it went
something like this:

RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them:  Do you have any broken cameras?
----------------

I appreciate your position,

Do you really? You do realize that the editorial caller in my scenario
that was played out many times in reality was saying, "WORK FOR ME FOR
FREE SO I CAN HAVE SOMETHING FOR FREE. Do not spend that time working
working for paying customers so you can pay your bills keep your home
and feed your family." I also was never an office/desk manager. Usually
I would receive that call while crawling through an attic pulling wire
or hanging off the side of a building mounting a camera. I carried my
cell phone at all times so customers could always reach me. CUSTOMERS.

I have nothing against being cheap, frugal, or thrifty. I do have an
issue with shitting on the value of my time. Time is the only commodity
I have that is not renewable or replaceable.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/26/2022 5:20 AM, Snag wrote:

On 3/25/2022 8:12 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>>  Are highly visible but
disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so.  I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras.  Usually it went
something like this:


RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them:  Do you have any broken cameras?

Me:  No.  What good would that do m?

Them:  Well I want to put them up to scare people off.

Me:  Oh, I can order you some good looking dummy cameras.

Them:  I was just hoping you had some cameras that weren't any good
that I could get.

Me:  Why would I save broken cameras?

Them:  Well people might want to use them to scare people off.

Me:  Would those people be willing to pay for them?

Them:  No they aren't any good.  You would just throw them away.

Me:  Um, yes.  I threw them away.

Them: So could you save them for me and give me a call when you get some?

Me:  Would you be willing to pay for my time and shelf space to do that?

Them:  Why would I pay for hem.  They are broken.

Me:  Exactly.  They are broken.  I threw them away.

Them:  Well could you save them for me?

Me:  I could, but that would take time and shelf space to inventory
them for you and you have made it clear you won't pay for my time.

Them:  You are just going to throw them away!!!

Me:  Yes.  It takes less time to toss them in a nearby dumpster than
to put them in the truck, haul them back to the shop, clear a space on
the shelf in the stock room, and call you.  Then because you want them
for free you won't value my time and I may have to store them for you
for an indeterminate amount of time if its not convenient for you.

Them:  You are an asshole!

Me:  My customers don't think so.

Them:  Yeah, well I will never be your customer.

Me:  I know.  You said that at the very beginning.  I was just being
polite in case you might change your mind.

Them:  Screw you.

Me:  Hold on a second.  I need your address.

Them: Huh!  Why?

Me:  I need to know where to send the invoice for this ten minute
phone support call.


CLICK

  Have you noticed that those who vote democrat are the same ones who
are more likely to want sumpin for nuffin ?

Honestly. No. I have not noticed a political relationship. Atleast
not in people around my age (+/- 10-15 years).


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message news:t1n9kg$svp$1@dont-email.me...

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 10:52:10 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

Thanks. For the price I can accept it being only a scarecrow, but it
appears
functional and is worth some effort. The cell phone's owner discovered that >the store can copy his stuff onto his new phone so he needs it back for a >while.

I buy stuff with that thought in mind too. It usually works out okay,
but for the times it doesn't I'm not surprised nor out much $. For me
it's way more fun than going to a Casino where I already KNOW they are
out to screw you ;-)

-----------------------------

Most of the battery charge/discharge meters I've bought from Amazon have
soon failed and been a waste of (not much) money. This one still works but needs recalibration. https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Multimeter-Charge-Discharge-Battery-Tester/dp/B07ST89G8L

Meters that measure unipolar current through a grounded shunt have generally been fine, the problem is with measuring bipolar current against a reference that's above the negative power rail.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1nbd0$1ug4$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/26/2022 6:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t1lp9f$1oma$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>> Are highly visible but disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so. I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras. Usually it went
something like this:

RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them: Do you have any broken cameras?
----------------

I appreciate your position,

Do you really? You do realize that the editorial caller in my scenario
that was played out many times in reality was saying, "WORK FOR ME FOR
FREE SO I CAN HAVE SOMETHING FOR FREE. Do not spend that time working
working for paying customers so you can pay your bills keep your home
and feed your family." I also was never an office/desk manager. Usually
I would receive that call while crawling through an attic pulling wire
or hanging off the side of a building mounting a camera. I carried my
cell phone at all times so customers could always reach me. CUSTOMERS.

I have nothing against being cheap, frugal, or thrifty. I do have an
issue with shitting on the value of my time. Time is the only commodity
I have that is not renewable or replaceable.
--------------------------

I'm surprised you spend time answering me.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/26/2022 10:35 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t1nbd0$1ug4$1@gioia.aioe.org...
On 3/26/2022 6:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t1lp9f$1oma$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/25/2022 4:08 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:>>  Are highly visible but
disconnected driveway cameras effective theft deterrents?
Some people seem to think so.  I had probably 20 or 30 people over the
years call me up and ask me for my bad cameras.  Usually it went
something like this:


RING RING:

Me: The Security Consultant, how can I help you?

Them:  Do you have any broken cameras?
----------------

I appreciate your position,

Do you really?  You do realize that the editorial caller in my scenario
that was played out many times in reality was saying, "WORK FOR ME FOR
FREE SO I CAN HAVE SOMETHING FOR FREE.  Do not spend that time working working for paying customers so you can pay your bills keep your home
and feed your family." I also was never an office/desk manager.  Usually
I would receive that call while crawling through an attic pulling wire
or hanging off the side of a building mounting a camera.  I carried my
cell phone at all times so customers could always reach me.  CUSTOMERS.

I have nothing against being cheap, frugal, or thrifty.  I do have an
issue with shitting on the value of my time.  Time is the only commodity
I have that is not renewable or replaceable.
--------------------------

I'm surprised you spend time answering me.

I get something back from you.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 6:25:14 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while. Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine. Something basically at the bottom of the
heap. A machine in the X2 class. Harbor Freight, Little machine shop, Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this class.

There are a couple issues. I have absolutely no use for this machine
beyond the video series I want to make, so I don't want to spend a grand (give or take) on it for six (maybe a couple more) mold making videos
and then just throw it on a shelf. All of them have mind numbingly slow spindles for aluminum machining. Usually peaking around 2500-2800 RPM.

I could do the video series with my South Bend SB1028F, but I'm sure I
would get criticism for using a $24K machine with power feeds and DROs.
I want to show that some useful things can be done with a low end manual count the turns machine. I may show the same mold being made on both machines, but the goal is to show useful work being done on a POS
countertop milling machine.

Now before anybody say "you can't" or "its not worth it," well I
actually have a lower end (in some ways) milling machine that has got
the entire shop back up and running in a pinch. I've got a Harbor
Freight 42976. Its a round column mill/drill much smaller than the
RF30/31 with all the failings of a round column mill and it doesn't even have a fine feed on the quill. Just a crappy side collar drill stop and
a quill lock. I was able to do actual milling with it when I had no
choice because every other milling machine in the shop required air to operate and I needed to making an adapter plate for a new pump on the compressor. I used stacks of gage blocks to set the depth on the stop,
and then used the quill lock. I can make parts with it, but that's a
kind of torture even somebody with an X2 class machine won't and
shouldn't have to deal with.

I did contact a few companies to see if they wanted to partner on the
idea. One tried to sell me a mill outside the scope of what I wanted to
use. (Three times out of the scope) Harbor Freight never responds to
me so I didn't even try to contact them. Well, I did, but after looking through their contact options I couldn't find anything that sounded
right. One company sent me an email saying they were forwarding the
idea to their marketing department. None of the rest I contacted even responded, which is about what I expected.

The thing is I am not in the video business. I don't get paid for
creating video content. Nobody pays me to *tutor them. I don't want to
spend a grand on a machine that other than this short videos series I
have no use for. I just want to make this series of videos as a
personal challenge and maybe to help somebody else along. I'm inspired
to do it. Not motivated by making money to do it. It may (probably
not) even cost me some business.

*I actually have been contacted a couple times by people who want to pay
me to tutor them on some subjects, but I'm not really as qualified as I sometimes appear.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

I would continue to pursue Harbor Freight. It seems that every year or so I get email from their President extolling himself (perhaps rightfully) for making huge donations of tools & equipment to public school shop classes. Surely they'd be interested in
your project - I know I would like to see the videos.

https://www.harborfreight.com/about-us/eric-smidt-bio.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/29/2022 12:47 PM, rangerssuck wrote:

On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 6:25:14 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:

Ok, I have a project I've been wanting to do for a little while. Making
a short series of videos on making some useful injection molds using a
small manual milling machine. Something basically at the bottom of the
heap. A machine in the X2 class. Harbor Freight, Little machine shop,
Klutch, Wen, Eastwood and many others all sell a machine in about this
class.

There are a couple issues. I have absolutely no use for this machine
beyond the video series I want to make, so I don't want to spend a grand
(give or take) on it for six (maybe a couple more) mold making videos
and then just throw it on a shelf. All of them have mind numbingly slow
spindles for aluminum machining. Usually peaking around 2500-2800 RPM.

I could do the video series with my South Bend SB1028F, but I'm sure I
would get criticism for using a $24K machine with power feeds and DROs.
I want to show that some useful things can be done with a low end manual
count the turns machine. I may show the same mold being made on both
machines, but the goal is to show useful work being done on a POS
countertop milling machine.

Now before anybody say "you can't" or "its not worth it," well I
actually have a lower end (in some ways) milling machine that has got
the entire shop back up and running in a pinch. I've got a Harbor
Freight 42976. Its a round column mill/drill much smaller than the
RF30/31 with all the failings of a round column mill and it doesn't even
have a fine feed on the quill. Just a crappy side collar drill stop and
a quill lock. I was able to do actual milling with it when I had no
choice because every other milling machine in the shop required air to
operate and I needed to making an adapter plate for a new pump on the
compressor. I used stacks of gage blocks to set the depth on the stop,
and then used the quill lock. I can make parts with it, but that's a
kind of torture even somebody with an X2 class machine won't and
shouldn't have to deal with.

I did contact a few companies to see if they wanted to partner on the
idea. One tried to sell me a mill outside the scope of what I wanted to
use. (Three times out of the scope) Harbor Freight never responds to
me so I didn't even try to contact them. Well, I did, but after looking
through their contact options I couldn't find anything that sounded
right. One company sent me an email saying they were forwarding the
idea to their marketing department. None of the rest I contacted even
responded, which is about what I expected.

The thing is I am not in the video business. I don't get paid for
creating video content. Nobody pays me to *tutor them. I don't want to
spend a grand on a machine that other than this short videos series I
have no use for. I just want to make this series of videos as a
personal challenge and maybe to help somebody else along. I'm inspired
to do it. Not motivated by making money to do it. It may (probably
not) even cost me some business.

*I actually have been contacted a couple times by people who want to pay
me to tutor them on some subjects, but I'm not really as qualified as I
sometimes appear.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

I would continue to pursue Harbor Freight. It seems that every year or so I get email from their President extolling himself (perhaps rightfully) for making huge donations of tools & equipment to public school shop classes. Surely they'd be interested

in your project - I know I would like to see the videos.

https://www.harborfreight.com/about-us/eric-smidt-bio.html

Ok, I sent a request off through corporate media to HF. We shall see if
that goes anywhere. PM was gungho to sell me a machine, but Matt didn't
even offer a discount. Of course he doesn't even have one in that
class. Jet said they would forward my request to media relations.
Nobody else I have contacted has responded. If worse comes to worse,
I'll buy one, strip it down, and repaint the colored bits a nice neutral
green chartreuse so nobody knows what it is. Then when I am done I'll
figure out how I want to dispose of it. LOL.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t200gn$1igq$1@gioia.aioe.org...

Ok, I sent a request off through corporate media to HF. We shall see if
that goes anywhere. PM was gungho to sell me a machine, but Matt didn't
even offer a discount. Of course he doesn't even have one in that
class. Jet said they would forward my request to media relations.
Nobody else I have contacted has responded. If worse comes to worse,
I'll buy one, strip it down, and repaint the colored bits a nice neutral
green chartreuse so nobody knows what it is. Then when I am done I'll
figure out how I want to dispose of it. LOL.

----------------------

Much of the stuff at the pawn+second hand tool store is on consignment.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/29/2022 6:17 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t200gn$1igq$1@gioia.aioe.org...
Ok, I sent a request off through corporate media to HF.  We shall see if that goes anywhere.  PM was gungho to sell me a machine, but Matt didn't even offer a discount.  Of course he doesn't even have one in that
class.  Jet said they would forward my request to media relations.
Nobody else I have contacted has responded.  If worse comes to worse,
I'll buy one, strip it down, and repaint the colored bits a nice neutral green chartreuse so nobody knows what it is.  Then when I am done I'll figure out how I want to dispose of it.  LOL.

----------------------

Much of the stuff at the pawn+second hand tool store is on consignment.

I am not even remotely interested in pawn shop stuff. I don't even go
to pawn shops anymore. I haven't been in one in years. Once in a while
I see one and I'm briefly tempted, but I never have the time.
Everything I've ever found in a pawnshop that I wanted was priced higher
than retail. Usually higher than list. It really brought it home to me
when I worked in a tool store. We sold brands like Makita, Milwaukee,
DeWalt, Delta, etc. (not so much Delta anymore) Good name brands. I
would see the same brands in a pawn shop. Models I was familiar with
because I just sold one, and they would be priced higher than full list.

"Well you can negotiate." Yes you can. Sometimes if the person you are dealing with likes you and their spouse didn't give them a hard time
before work that day. Then you can negotiate down to maybe retail or marginally below retail for a USED TOOL of UNKNOWN condition.

"Well, you must not be very good at negotiating." That's not true. I
do know how to play the games and pull the tricks if I care to spend
the time. I grew up in business, and at 4 years old purchased items to
put on the shelves in my parents store with Christmass gift money
instead of just spending it or letting it devalue in the bank. I have
some background in business, negotiation, and sales. Still its possible
I might be a terrible negotiator. That's not true, but you don't know
me. I will say that when I negotiate I take into account all of the
cost. If I go to a surplus salvage yard I'm going to have to dig the
piece of metal I want out of the stack and haul it to the truck myself.
Then the manager/owner is as likely as not to try to renegotiate the
price before I load it for some "reason" or another. Similar time
wasting occurs in a pawn shop if you don't just get stone walled.

So yes, its possible I might be able to get a used tool for less than
new retail but it could cost me a lot more than that in time and effort.
If I buy it in a retail store I can walk in, pay, and walk out. If I
order it on line I don't even have to drive to the store, and I can
likely get it for less than retail. Almost certainly if its not a price
fixed item and I spend less time than it takes me to drive to the store.

Regardless all those things have value. Not just the money I hand over.

... and lastly I never mentioned a pawn shop, junk dealer, surplus
store, or salvage yard as an option.

I have mentioned PM more than once or twice in this group. PM is a
shorthand for Precision Mathews. I have often referred to my big (big
for me) PM1440ELB 14 by 40 engine lathe. They are a branded import
dealer with a better than average reputation for quality control.
Always better than Harbor Freight and often (not always) better than
Grizzly, Wen, or Jet. They are not a pawn shop. LOL.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t2219f$18m8$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/29/2022 6:17 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t200gn$1igq$1@gioia.aioe.org...
Ok, I sent a request off through corporate media to HF. We shall see if
that goes anywhere. PM was gungho to sell me a machine, but Matt didn't
even offer a discount. Of course he doesn't even have one in that
class. Jet said they would forward my request to media relations.
Nobody else I have contacted has responded. If worse comes to worse,
I'll buy one, strip it down, and repaint the colored bits a nice neutral green chartreuse so nobody knows what it is. Then when I am done I'll
figure out how I want to dispose of it. LOL.

----------------------

Much of the stuff at the pawn+second hand tool store is on consignment.

I am not even remotely interested in pawn shop stuff. I don't even go
to pawn shops anymore. I haven't been in one in years. Once in a while
I see one and I'm briefly tempted, but I never have the time.
Everything I've ever found in a pawnshop that I wanted was priced higher
than retail. Usually higher than list. It really brought it home to me
when I worked in a tool store. We sold brands like Makita, Milwaukee,
DeWalt, Delta, etc. (not so much Delta anymore) Good name brands. I
would see the same brands in a pawn shop. Models I was familiar with
because I just sold one, and they would be priced higher than full list.
...
--------------------------
I meant you might SELL the mill at one, on consignment.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/30/2022 2:49 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t2219f$18m8$1@gioia.aioe.org...
On 3/29/2022 6:17 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t200gn$1igq$1@gioia.aioe.org...
Ok, I sent a request off through corporate media to HF.  We shall see
if that goes anywhere.  PM was gungho to sell me a machine, but Matt
didn't even offer a discount.  Of course he doesn't even have one in
that class.  Jet said they would forward my request to media
relations. Nobody else I have contacted has responded.  If worse comes
to worse, I'll buy one, strip it down, and repaint the colored bits a
nice neutral green chartreuse so nobody knows what it is.  Then when I
am done I'll figure out how I want to dispose of it.  LOL.

----------------------

Much of the stuff at the pawn+second hand tool store is on consignment.

I am not even remotely interested in pawn shop stuff.  I don't even go
to pawn shops anymore. I haven't been in one in years.  Once in a while
I see one and I'm briefly tempted, but I never have the time. Everything
I've ever found in a pawnshop that I wanted was priced higher than
retail.  Usually higher than list.  It really brought it home to me when
I worked in a tool store.  We sold brands like Makita, Milwaukee,
DeWalt, Delta, etc.  (not so much Delta anymore)  Good name brands.  I would see the same brands in a pawn shop.  Models I was familiar with because I just sold one, and they would be priced higher than full list.
...
--------------------------
I meant you might SELL the mill at one, on consignment.

My apologies. I didn't even think of selling at a pawn shop. I did not
know any even did consignment sales.

Tangent Alert:

Many years ago in a land not to far away during my single life. I
stopped by to see a couple young women I "knew." A buddy of mine
stopped by and we all decided to go out dancing. I had a couple long
guns in my car (hatch back) and I didn't want to leave them visible in
front of some bar. I asked the young ladies if I could stash them in
their closet so nobody busted my windows to steal them.

For some reason (I think I was hustling pool) we wound up finding our individual ways to get "home." A day or two later I stopped by to pick
up my stuff and the long guns were gone. One of the young ladies had
moved out, and the other had an ex who was a recreational druggy. I
knew them all. The one still living there was cagey and admitted
nothing. There was not much I could do accept report them stolen.

A few days later I stopped by to visit yet another buddy of mine and
found the young lady who had moved out staying with him. I talked about
my missing guns and when she looked nervous I said, (just to see if
there was a reaction) "I should probably check the pawn shops. I bet
your room mate pawned them for drug money." She turned white. I don't
mean pale. I mean white. Like a sheet of paper white. I had never
seen that before. So I asked rather pointedly, "So do you know what
happened to them?"

"She said you gave them to her."

Being somewhat quicker than I had been the other night I said, "Here's
the deal. I'm going down to the police stations to let them know what
happened to my guns. You can come with me and tell them the truth and I
will ask the city attorney not to prosecute you. I just want my guns
back."

She said ok, and off we went. The poor cop who caught the case didn't
know what to make of me walking in with one of the thieves in tow. She explained what happened and where the other young lady was likely to be
found and they sent a car to pick her up.

When they got back with the other thief. I asked the cop if he would
leave us alone to talk for a minute. He didn't like that at all. I
promised to sit in my chair and not move and he could listen at the door
for screaming or sounds of a fight if he wanted.

I told the other woman I just wanted my guns back. If she told the cops everything and I got my guns back that day I would ask the city attorney
not to prosecute her just like I had the other one. She told me where
the guns had been pawned and said she had the pawn tickets in her
apartment. She said she wasn't sure if she had enough money to cover
the pawn tickets, but her new boyfriend might be willing to help.

I spoke loudly and (I'm sure he was listening) and asked the cop to come
back in. I explained my position and he said he would have to run it by
the city attorney. The city attorney agreed, but passed back that I
couldn't come back in the next day and change my mind.

The cops called the pawn shop to let them know I would be picking up my
guns, and I volunteered to give both young ladies a ride home. I wanted
the pawn tickets and the money to cover them. I thought the poor cop
was going to have a fit, but I convinced him to let me.

We arrived at the apartment building and she headed off to get the pawn tickets. I waited in my vehicle in the parking lot. When she came back
out she stopped to talk to a young marine and his buddies who were
working on a car. I was a little hesitant that might go badly for me,
but I was armed. I could see him taking up a collection from all his
buddies of all their cash and change. Finally she brought me the pawn
tickets and a couple handfuls of money.

She was a couple dollars short. I took it anyway. I figure a couple
dollars for being young and dumb wasn't to costly of a lesson. As we
drove away I could hear the new boyfriend reading her the riot act. I
could still hear him yelling when I turned the corner.

At the pawn shop the owner was furious about having to turn my guns over
to me. The reason? Well he thought he had made a big score. He had
pawned those guns for about 5% of their value. I mean real what I could
sell them for value. I just smiled and reminded him that the cops knew
the guns were here and had told him to hand them over. "Be glad I have
a level head and just want my guns back without waiting for a trial. If
I hadn't done that they would have seized them for evidence and returned
them to me after the trial and you wouldn't have even gotten your pawn
ticket price back. Now, here are the tickets and the cash. Please hand
them over."

And thus was begun my dislike of pawn shops. LOL.

In retrospect I'm not sure how I was so cool and level headed through
all of that. It wasted part of my morning and most of an afternoon, and
I got a bit of a reputation (I didn't deserve) with some of the local PD.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t22m2l$faj$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/30/2022 2:49 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I meant you might SELL the mill at one, on consignment.

My apologies. I didn't even think of selling at a pawn shop. I did not
know any even did consignment sales.

Tangent Alert:

--------------------

Wow, that was a close one, I'm not sure I would have handled it as well.

Although I've driven in European city traffic with classified material and a loaded M-16 during a terrorist scare I have no good stories to tell of it,
very fortunately.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 3/31/2022 12:34 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"Bob La Londe"  wrote in message news:t22m2l$faj$1@gioia.aioe.org...

On 3/30/2022 2:49 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I meant you might SELL the mill at one, on consignment.

My apologies.  I didn't even think of selling at a pawn shop.  I did not know any even did consignment sales.

Tangent Alert:

--------------------

Wow, that was a close one, I'm not sure I would have handled it as well.

Although I've driven in European city traffic with classified material
and a loaded M-16 during a terrorist scare I have no good stories to
tell of it, very fortunately.

That sounds like a story all in and of itself. Seriously though some
years back I ran a fishing club, and among our members were some Army
guys who did intelligence work in the UK. I have heard a story or two.
We do not have a large regular army contingent here, but some of the
special forces and intelligence guys do advanced jump training at YPG.
Its also the home training area for the Golden Knights exhibition team.
I had a training officer call me once to say he would not make a
tournament because one of his guys had a bad landing and he was going to
be up all night.

As a sort of side note to that I have to drive across the drop zone at
YPG to get to one of my favorite places to launch my boat. There are a
few crosses sprinkled across the drop zone from people who did not make
a good landing. Those scare me more than the jump would. "Yes ma'mm.
Your husband survived the jump but died of complications from the timber
cross up his bunghole."







--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:t252rs$2ek$1@gioia.aioe.org...

That sounds like a story all in and of itself. Seriously though some
years back I ran a fishing club, and among our members were some Army
guys who did intelligence work in the UK. I have heard a story or two.
We do not have a large regular army contingent here, but some of the
special forces and intelligence guys do advanced jump training at YPG.
Its also the home training area for the Golden Knights exhibition team.
I had a training officer call me once to say he would not make a
tournament because one of his guys had a bad landing and he was going to
be up all night.

As a sort of side note to that I have to drive across the drop zone at
YPG to get to one of my favorite places to launch my boat. There are a
few crosses sprinkled across the drop zone from people who did not make
a good landing. Those scare me more than the jump would. "Yes ma'mm.
Your husband survived the jump but died of complications from the timber
cross up his bunghole."

-------------

Hah!

When I was young I read that a combat jump landing was like falling from 18 feet, so I had to try that from roofs. My knees and feet never fully healed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Lufbery
"His falling body struck a metal garden picket fence, causing his death."
In another version his plane was being serviced when a German scout flew
over and he hastily borrowed the plane of a taller pilot, putting in a
pillow so he could see, but then he couldn't fasten the seat belt.

Lufbery and his comrades 'Whiskey' and 'Soda': https://previews.magnoliabox.com/printcollector/mb_hero/1217232/MUS-FAPC1114_850.jpg

Old vet: I worked in Intelligence.
Listener: Do you have any good stories?
Old vet: About me, or about you?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)