Yes, surf&coop. Fried salmon and fried chicken wings, and even French
fries.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO). The mediocre folks here
either fry in less healthful oils, or don't fry, and claim that other
methods produce better results.
BryanGSimmons wrote:
Yes, surf&coop. Fried salmon and fried chicken wings, and even French
fries.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO). The mediocre folks here
either fry in less healthful oils, or don't fry, and claim that other
methods produce better results.
I like it...
Jill would prolly use "Shake 'n Bake" on all that stuff...
GM
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 13:18:17 +0000, gm wrote:
BryanGSimmons wrote:I haven't a clue what Jill or anyone else might do with those
Yes, surf&coop. Fried salmon and fried chicken wings, and even French
fries.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO). The mediocre folks here
either fry in less healthful oils, or don't fry, and claim that other
methods produce better results.
I like it...
Jill would prolly use "Shake 'n Bake" on all that stuff...
GM
naked wings, but they need something. They're embarrassingly
plain. You'd think as much as chef Bryan spouts off about his
oils and his cooking 'skills' he could do better than that.
Looks like something a clueless teenager would attempt on his
venture into the kitchen and mommy is not there to guide him.
On 3/7/2025 11:55 AM, Jill McQuown wrote:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO). The mediocre folks here >>>>> either fry in less healthful oils, or don't fry, and claim that other >>>>> methods produce better results.
At any rate, I agree those chicken wings look incredibly plain and the
skin doesn't look crisp but it does look greasy. No doubt that is a
benefit of frying them in high oleic sunflower oil. ;)
Jill
There is a benefit to skin like that. Instead of chewing gum, just take
a bit of that flabby skin and chew away.
On 3/7/2025 11:55 AM, Jill McQuown wrote:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO). The mediocre folks here >>>>> either fry in less healthful oils, or don't fry, and claim that other >>>>> methods produce better results.
At any rate, I agree those chicken wings look incredibly plain and the
skin doesn't look crisp but it does look greasy. No doubt that is a
benefit of frying them in high oleic sunflower oil. ;)
Jill
There is a benefit to skin like that. Instead of chewing gum, just take
a bit of that flabby skin and chew away.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO). The mediocre folks here >>>> either fry in less healthful oils, or don't fry, and claim that other
methods produce better results.
At any rate, I agree those chicken wings look incredibly plain and the
skin doesn't look crisp but it does look greasy. No doubt that is a
benefit of frying them in high oleic sunflower oil. ;)
Jill
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 00:45:24 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
I think they look better than McDonalds matchsticks, for instance. <https://mcdonalds.com.au/sites/mcdonalds.com.au/files/product-Fries-desktop.png>
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 00:45:24 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.net (ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
I think they look better than McDonalds matchsticks, for instance. <https://mcdonalds.com.au/sites/mcdonalds.com.au/files/product-Fries-desktop.png>
Bruce wrote:
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 00:45:24 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.netIf you want some really greasy fries, visit that expensive jewish
(ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).Â
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
hamburger chain, the "five guys" joint.
If you want some really greasy fries, visit that expensive jewish
hamburger chain, the "five guys" joint.
A couple of guys who work in the office across the hall were talking
about Five Guys and how expensive it is. Something like $20 per person
for a burger, fries and a soft drink. No way would I pay that kind of
money for a burger & fries.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 1:26:45 +0000, Hank Rogers wrote:
Bruce wrote:I've still not eaten at that burger shack, I'm waiting
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 00:45:24 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.netIf you want some really greasy fries, visit that expensive jewish
(ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).Â
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
hamburger chain, the "five guys" joint.
on an advance from my 401k. 😁
On 2025-03-08, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
A couple of guys who work in the office across the hall were talking
about Five Guys and how expensive it is. Something like $20 per person
for a burger, fries and a soft drink. No way would I pay that kind of
money for a burger & fries.
I might. I routinely pay $14 or $15 for a burger and fries at
the bar. No beverage but water; however, the tip usually gets
it close to $20.
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would prefer
that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do tip but I stick
to the old standard of 15% for good service and I am fed with the
pressure for a minimum 20% just for showing up.
On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would preferWon't work. Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall, works.
that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do tip but I
stick to the old standard of 15% for good service and I am fed with
the pressure for a minimum 20% just for showing up.
Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum wage for service workers if they want more than the federal mandate of $2.13. In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do youthink is a fair and decent wage for the server?
The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it.
People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you think
is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
On 3/7/2025 8:57 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 1:26:45 +0000, Hank Rogers wrote:
Bruce wrote:I've still not eaten at that burger shack, I'm waiting
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 00:45:24 +0000, ItsJoanNotJoAnn@webtv.netIf you want some really greasy fries, visit that expensive jewish
(ItsJoanNotJoAnn) wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).Â
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
hamburger chain, the "five guys" joint.
on an advance from my 401k. 😁
A couple of guys who work in the office across the hall were talking
about Five Guys and how expensive it is. Something like $20 per person
for a burger, fries and a soft drink. No way would I pay that kind of
money for a burger & fries. (BTW, Five Guys was started by a family
named Murrell; the surname originates in Northumberland, UK so once
again Hank displays his ignorance with his assumption it is a "jewish" hamburger chain.)
Jill
On 2025-03-08 12:38 p.m., Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would preferWon't work. Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall, works.
that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do tip but I
stick to the old standard of 15% for good service and I am fed with
the pressure for a minimum 20% just for showing up.
Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum wage
for service workers if they want more than the federal mandate of
$2.13. In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
That is what is done in most of Europe where tax and service are
factored into the price. While menu prices may look to be more but you don't have to shell out for tax and tip on top of that, so what you see
is what you pay.
My most recent trip to Paris was close to 2 years ago. On our first
night we had a simple supper at a sidewalk cafe. My very substantial
chicken dinner was 15 Euros, about $22 CDN, and that included tax and
service and I left a small tip. The next night was closer to the hotel
and we had a three course menu meal, appetizer, main plate and dessert
for 20 Euros. Throw in a decent bottle of wine for another 20 Euros for
a total of 60 Euros about $90... service and tax included. The food and service were good.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do youthink is a fair and decent wage for the server?
The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it.
People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will
be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you
think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
What they hell. Why not just out then on straight tips, have them do
their busing and table prep with the customers and then have the stand
there with their hands out for tips. Or pay them something more than minimum.
So, you decline putting a number on it. $15? $25? Anyone want to say?
On 3/7/2025 7:45 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
While we're at it, what the heck did he coat the salmon with?
Jill
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
On 3/8/2025 1:46 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
So, you decline putting a number on it. $15? $25? Anyone want to say?The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it.
People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will
be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you
think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be
responsible for paying their employees, not the customers.
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
What they hell. Why not just out then on straight tips, have them do
their busing and table prep with the customers and then have the stand
there with their hands out for tips. Or pay them something more than
minimum.
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would prefer that >> tax and service be included in the menu price. I do tip but I stick to the >> old standard of 15% for good service and I am fed with the pressure for aWon't work. Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall, works.
minimum 20% just for showing up.
Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum wage for service workers if they want more than the federal mandate of $2.13. In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it. People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 15:17:58 +0000, Jill McQuown wrote:I never saw masa harina that shade of orange before. Granted, salmon is
On 3/7/2025 7:45 PM, ItsJoanNotJoAnn wrote:"High oleic sunflower oil (HOSO)"? He spouts that every
On Fri, 7 Mar 2025 17:34:08 +0000, Bruce wrote:
They look very greasy. The naked chicken threw me off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqedE791qCiyFkWu9
All fried in high oleic sunflower oil (HOSO).
The fries look good.
as I didn't pay attention to the fries.
While we're at it, what the heck did he coat the salmon with?
Jill
time he fries something and I'm guessing masa harina for
the coating. No ordinary corn meal for chef Bryan as he
dances around the kitchen with his castanets.
--
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The customers pay the employees either way.That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum *server* wage is
still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to depend upon
the kindness of strangers to make up the difference between that and the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour. (Technically the employer is
supposed to make up the difference.) Counting on the customer to leave
more than a 50 cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is the base server wage in this state. And oh, it doesn't matter if you tip in cash
or put it on your credit card because server income is reported based on sales rung at the register. Handing them a tip in cash makes no
difference whatsoever in what gets reported as taxable income to the
IRS. They assume you're earning at least the Federal minimum.
On 2025-03-08 6:49 p.m., Jill McQuown wrote:
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The customers pay the employees either way.That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum *server* wage is
still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to depend
upon the kindness of strangers to make up the difference between that
and the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour. (Technically the employer
is supposed to make up the difference.) Counting on the customer to
leave more than a 50 cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is the
base server wage in this state. And oh, it doesn't matter if you tip
in cash or put it on your credit card because server income is
reported based on sales rung at the register. Handing them a tip in
cash makes no difference whatsoever in what gets reported as taxable
income to the IRS. They assume you're earning at least the Federal
minimum.
I don't know exactly how the IRS does it but up here is the CRA and my understanding is that they have some sort of formula to estimate the tip income that would be expected for a server. My son was waiter in bar
for a while and later managed bars. At one time one of his cousins
worked for him and the guy was making a lot in tips and apparently not declaring them all. He got audited and ended up owing thousands of
dollars in income tax. This nephew had worked part time as a waiter
while studying restaurant and hotel management at university. After graduation he kept waiting tables for years because he was making so
much more than he could have as a manager.
I don't know exactly how the IRS does it but up here is the CRA and my >understanding is that they have some sort of formula to estimate the tip >income that would be expected for a server. My son was waiter in bar
for a while and later managed bars. At one time one of his cousins
worked for him and the guy was making a lot in tips and apparently not >declaring them all. He got audited and ended up owing thousands of
dollars in income tax. This nephew had worked part time as a waiter
while studying restaurant and hotel management at university. After >graduation he kept waiting tables for years because he was making so
much more than he could have as a manager.
On 3/8/2025 7:08 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
It's been a very long time since I worked as a server. I remember the
days when tips were not reported as income. Then someone at the IRS
woke up and said hey, wait a minute! what about all that money people
keep handing them? We need to find a way to tax it! So they decided
not to rely on servers reporting what they earned. So they calculate a percentage based on each server's sales rung up at the register. Even
if you don't make diddly squat in tips, a percentage gets reported to
the IRS as taxable income.
It's been a very long time since I worked as a server. I remember the
days when tips were not reported as income. Then someone at the IRS
woke up and said hey, wait a minute! what about all that money people
keep handing them? We need to find a way to tax it! So they decided
not to rely on servers reporting what they earned. So they calculate a >percentage based on each server's sales rung up at the register. Even
if you don't make diddly squat in tips, a percentage gets reported to
the IRS as taxable income.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:43:05 -0500, Jill McQuown
<j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
It's been a very long time since I worked as a server. I remember the
days when tips were not reported as income. Then someone at the IRS
woke up and said hey, wait a minute! what about all that money people
keep handing them? We need to find a way to tax it! So they decided
not to rely on servers reporting what they earned. So they calculate a
percentage based on each server's sales rung up at the register. Even
if you don't make diddly squat in tips, a percentage gets reported to
the IRS as taxable income.
So if you're a sourpuss, people don't like you and you don't make much
in tips, you get taxed over money you never earned. Did you work as a
server for long?
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:08:42 -0500, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I don't know exactly how the IRS does it but up here is the CRA and my
understanding is that they have some sort of formula to estimate the tip
income that would be expected for a server. My son was waiter in bar
for a while and later managed bars. At one time one of his cousins
worked for him and the guy was making a lot in tips and apparently not
declaring them all. He got audited and ended up owing thousands of
dollars in income tax. This nephew had worked part time as a waiter
while studying restaurant and hotel management at university. After
graduation he kept waiting tables for years because he was making so
much more than he could have as a manager.
He must have provided additional services besides waiting tables.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:08:42 -0500, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I don't know exactly how the IRS does it but up here is the CRA and my
understanding is that they have some sort of formula to estimate the tip
income that would be expected for a server. My son was waiter in bar
for a while and later managed bars. At one time one of his cousins
worked for him and the guy was making a lot in tips and apparently not
declaring them all. He got audited and ended up owing thousands of
dollars in income tax. This nephew had worked part time as a waiter
while studying restaurant and hotel management at university. After
graduation he kept waiting tables for years because he was making so
much more than he could have as a manager.
He must have provided additional services besides waiting tables.
On 2025-03-08 7:43 p.m., Jill McQuown wrote:
On 3/8/2025 7:08 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
It's been a very long time since I worked as a server. I remember the
days when tips were not reported as income. Then someone at the IRS
woke up and said hey, wait a minute! what about all that money people
keep handing them? We need to find a way to tax it! So they decided
not to rely on servers reporting what they earned. So they calculate
a percentage based on each server's sales rung up at the register.
Even if you don't make diddly squat in tips, a percentage gets
reported to the IRS as taxable income.
I am getting so fed up with the social media campaign to shame people
into tipping a minimum 20% I could support them assuming 20% tips for
income tax purposes.
Most tips are on credit card. Cash tips are reported every night for
tax purposes.
On 3/8/2025 8:38 PM, Ed P wrote:
Most tips are on credit card. Cash tips are reported every night for
tax purposes.
Doesn't matter how you tip. Cash or credit card, tips are reported by restaurants based on server sales entered into the cash register/order management system. You can meet someone out in the parking lot and hand them $20 as a tip but it doesn't matter. Even if no one else tipped
them that night what gets reported to the IRS is calculated based on
sales. They assume 15% and deduct it from the paycheck accordingly.
On 3/8/2025 7:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:08:42 -0500, Dave Smith
<adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
I don't know exactly how the IRS does it but up here is the CRA and my
understanding is that they have some sort of formula to estimate the tip >>> income that would be expected for a server. My son was waiter in bar
for a while and later managed bars. At one time one of his cousins
worked for him and the guy was making a lot in tips and apparently not
declaring them all. He got audited and ended up owing thousands of
dollars in income tax. This nephew had worked part time as a waiter
while studying restaurant and hotel management at university. After
graduation he kept waiting tables for years because he was making so
much more than he could have as a manager.
He must have provided additional services besides waiting tables.
Why do you say that? My granddaughter turned down manager for the same >reason.
On 3/8/2025 8:38 PM, Ed P wrote:
Most tips are on credit card. Cash tips are reported every night for
tax purposes.
Doesn't matter how you tip. Cash or credit card, tips are reported by restaurants based on server sales entered into the cash register/order management system. You can meet someone out in the parking lot and hand them $20 as a tip but it doesn't matter. Even if no one else tipped
them that night what gets reported to the IRS is calculated based on
sales. They assume 15% and deduct it from the paycheck accordingly.
Jill
On 3/8/2025 7:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
He must have provided additional services besides waiting tables.
Why do you say that?
reason.
Tips vary.
not order anything, they just wanted to have a meeting. It was not a
busy time so not a detraction. They left after a half hour and tipped $20.
Most tips are on credit card. Cash tips are reported every night for
tax purposes.
Being a server is not a prestigious job. Most people would rank it much lower than say, a school teacher. However, being a teacher would be a
big pay cut! Not every server does as well. She happens to like it,
does it well. She also trains new servers and there is a fairly high turnover.
If they did away with the tipping structure, she would quite too because
they would not pay as much as she presently earns.
On 2025-03-08 8:38 p.m., Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 7:45 PM, Bruce wrote:
He must have provided additional services besides waiting tables.
Why do you say that?
Because he is an asshole.
On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would
prefer that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do
tip but I stick to the old standard of 15% for good service and I
am fed with the pressure for a minimum 20% just for showing up.
Won't work. Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall, works.
Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum wage
for service workers if they want more than the federal mandate of
$2.13. In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it.
People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will
be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you
think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
On 2025-03-08 5:33 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
Indeed, so why do we insist on playing this game where diners can think
that they can make servers jump and dance with the hope of a bigger tip.
We also seem to be suckers for the lower prices even though we all
know that we have to pay tax and tip on top of that.
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
Yes, but they don't want to pay them. Customers want to make a good
wage but want to buy stuff cheap.
I see no one yet tried putting a $$ figure on what a server should make.
I will say, the right person in the right place can do far better than minimum.
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum *server* wage is
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible
for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to depend upon
the kindness of strangers to make up the difference between that and the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour. (Technically the employer is
supposed to make up the difference.) Counting on the customer to leave
more than a 50 cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is the base server wage in this state.
And oh, it doesn't matter if you tip in cash
or put it on your credit card because server income is reported based on sales rung at the register.
On 2025-03-08, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum *server* wage is
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible >>>> for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to depend upon
the kindness of strangers to make up the difference between that and the
Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour. (Technically the employer is
supposed to make up the difference.) Counting on the customer to leave
more than a 50 cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is the base
server wage in this state.
Have you told him? Ignorance can be remedied.
And oh, it doesn't matter if you tip in cash
or put it on your credit card because server income is reported based on
sales rung at the register.
It does if I tip more than 15% in cash.
Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and wouldWon't work. Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall, works.
prefer that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do
tip but I stick to the old standard of 15% for good service and I
am fed with the pressure for a minimum 20% just for showing up.
Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum wage
for service workers if they want more than the federal mandate of
$2.13. In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover it.
People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some sales will
be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you
think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
Long ago I worked with this. What most don't know if if it's a chain
place (Applebees, Chili's, Denny's etc. including McDonalds and that
set), they have to be paid minimum wage. It's the NON-CHAIN places
where you might see the 2.13hr. Waiters at bars, Bartenders are fair
game for it. Exception Hard Rock Cafe, Hooters, etc are probably big
enough to be part of it.
The people aren't going to tell you this. They want you to think they
get 2.13hr so you tip heavily in sympathy.
Starbucks is the worst. They pay well over minimum wage and have good benefits, even ones that help pay for a degree.
I DO leave a good tip if service is good. I leave more if they
actually fall under the 2.13hr (a few local places do like my favorite Chinese place) but most of them pay more than 2.13hr just to get people.
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
On 3/9/2025 5:46 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:Of course I told him. He was shocked. I gather he assumed everyone got
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum *server* wage is
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make with
tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible >>>>> for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to depend upon >>> the kindness of strangers to make up the difference between that and the >>> Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour. (Technically the employer is
supposed to make up the difference.) Counting on the customer to leave
more than a 50 cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is the base >>> server wage in this state.
Have you told him? Ignorance can be remedied.
paid about $16/hour like most of the minimum wage workers in NY.
How so?And oh, it doesn't matter if you tip in cash
or put it on your credit card because server income is reported based on >>> sales rung at the register.
It does if I tip more than 15% in cash.
Ed P wrote:
...
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
i have relatives that do accounting and payroll for various
restaurants. i am glad i don't do it. the turnover is a
beast and then the changing laws and regulations can also
make it a PITA.
On 2025-03-09 9:00 a.m., songbird wrote:
Ed P wrote:
...
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
i have relatives that do accounting and payroll for various
restaurants. i am glad i don't do it. the turnover is a
beast and then the changing laws and regulations can also
make it a PITA.
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem. He
was forever firing servers, most often for theft. They had a thousand
and one ways to steal from the customers and from the business. Crooked
staff are the reason there are so many security cameras.
We used to go a Saturday afternoon blues jam at a local pub. There was a waitress there who was notorious for short changing. It was so bad that
when she handed me my change I would just leave my hand out and wait for
the rest of my change. She would end up giving me more change but
knowing that she had been caught didn't seem to deter her from trying it again. We met some friends there one day and I warned my friend about
the waitress and her short tips and, sure enough, she tried to pull it
on her. I stopped ordering drinks from the waitress and would go up to
the bar and get them myself.
On Sun, 9 Mar 2025 14:36:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-09 9:00 a.m., songbird wrote:
Ed P wrote:
...
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
i have relatives that do accounting and payroll for various
restaurants. i am glad i don't do it. the turnover is a
beast and then the changing laws and regulations can also
make it a PITA.
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem. He
was forever firing servers, most often for theft. They had a thousand
and one ways to steal from the customers and from the business. Crooked
staff are the reason there are so many security cameras.
We used to go a Saturday afternoon blues jam at a local pub. There was a
waitress there who was notorious for short changing. It was so bad that
when she handed me my change I would just leave my hand out and wait for
the rest of my change. She would end up giving me more change but
knowing that she had been caught didn't seem to deter her from trying it
again. We met some friends there one day and I warned my friend about
the waitress and her short tips and, sure enough, she tried to pull it
on her. I stopped ordering drinks from the waitress and would go up to
the bar and get them myself.
My granddaughter's baby daddy manages the restaurant down the street.
He'd rather be a server - more money. My guess is that they enhanced his >terms of employment to get him to stay.
I sure wish he was on better terms with my daughter because the
restaurant is a pretty great one. That guy used to give us 50% discounts
or ever cover the entire tab. Those were the days.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NnC6hAsvqhCXvVZVA
My granddaughter's baby daddy manages the restaurant down the street.
He'd rather be a server - more money. My guess is that they enhanced his terms of employment to get him to stay.
I sure wish he was on better terms with my daughter because the
restaurant is a pretty great one. That guy used to give us 50% discounts
or ever cover the entire tab. Those were the days.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NnC6hAsvqhCXvVZVA
Ed P wrote:
...
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of the
tip with others, like food runners.
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
On 2025-03-09 9:00 a.m., songbird wrote:
Ed P wrote:
...
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
i have relatives that do accounting and payroll for various
restaurants. i am glad i don't do it. the turnover is a
beast and then the changing laws and regulations can also
make it a PITA.
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem. He
was forever firing servers, most often for theft.
On 2025-03-09 3:38 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
My granddaughter's baby daddy manages the restaurant down the street.
He'd rather be a server - more money. My guess is that they enhanced his
terms of employment to get him to stay.
I sure wish he was on better terms with my daughter because the
restaurant is a pretty great one. That guy used to give us 50% discounts
or ever cover the entire tab. Those were the days.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NnC6hAsvqhCXvVZVA
Is that him? He is a weird looking guy.
I've worked in restaurants doing the payroll. The servers earned $2.13
an hour but there was tip sharing which included doling it out among the bussers, the bartenders (who definitely got their own tips but for some reason didn't count as tipped employees) and the front door greeters who seated people who were paid more per hour than the servers. I never
thought that was fair.
On 3/9/2025 10:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-09 9:00 a.m., songbird wrote:
Ed P wrote:
...
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
i have relatives that do accounting and payroll for various
restaurants. i am glad i don't do it. the turnover is a
beast and then the changing laws and regulations can also
make it a PITA.
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem. He
was forever firing servers, most often for theft.
I had a fun time working for a restaurant for a year back in the 90's.
Part of my job was to handle the accounting. Back of the house stuff, including payroll. The general manager was re-assigned to a different restaurant and the new GM changed the computer password and wouldn't
tell me what it was. I complained to the regional manager (RM). He
blew off my concerns. Perhaps he was complicit? Turns out, the new GM
added a bunch of his family members to the payroll system and was
forging work hours for them and having weekly paychecks cut for them. He
was eventually caught. I no longer worked there but I did get to say to
the RM, "I told you so." :)
Jill
On Sun, 9 Mar 2025 19:58:21 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-09 3:38 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
My granddaughter's baby daddy manages the restaurant down the street.
He'd rather be a server - more money. My guess is that they enhanced his >>> terms of employment to get him to stay.
I sure wish he was on better terms with my daughter because the
restaurant is a pretty great one. That guy used to give us 50% discounts >>> or ever cover the entire tab. Those were the days.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NnC6hAsvqhCXvVZVA
Is that him? He is a weird looking guy.
Looks aren't important. The only thing that matters is discounts and freebies.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gQy6fJuudnab95Er5
On 3/9/2025 10:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem. He
was forever firing servers, most often for theft.
I had a fun time working for a restaurant for a year back in the 90's.
Part of my job was to handle the accounting. Back of the house stuff, including payroll. The general manager was re-assigned to a different restaurant and the new GM changed the computer password and wouldn't
tell me what it was.
I complained to the regional manager (RM). He
blew off my concerns. Perhaps he was complicit? Turns out, the new GM added a bunch of his family members to the payroll system and was
forging work hours for them and having weekly paychecks cut for them. He
was eventually caught. I no longer worked there but I did get to say to
the RM, "I told you so." :)
On 2025-03-09 5:34 p.m., Jill McQuown wrote:
On 3/9/2025 10:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem.
He was forever firing servers, most often for theft.
I had a fun time working for a restaurant for a year back in the 90's.
Part of my job was to handle the accounting. Back of the house
stuff, including payroll. The general manager was re-assigned to a
different restaurant and the new GM changed the computer password and
wouldn't tell me what it was.
That alone can be a disaster. There was a Tim Hortons in a town about 20 miles from here that was a popular hang out for motorcyclist which the
owner encouraged because he was a motorcyclist. Unfortunately he was
killed in a bike accident. It turned out that he had kept his password secret. That threw the restaurant business into disasterous situation.
All the payroll, banking info, scheduling, ordering etc was on the
computer and no one could access it.
I complained to the regional manager (RM). He blew off myIn my son's first manager position he had been moved to Toronto to set
concerns. Perhaps he was complicit? Turns out, the new GM added a
bunch of his family members to the payroll system and was forging work
hours for them and having weekly paychecks cut for them. He was
eventually caught. I no longer worked there but I did get to say to
the RM, "I told you so." :)
up a new outlet. It was a French company and the Canadian franchise was
in the hands of a Greek family, so that was his glass ceiling. After
about a year and already profitable, they sent a family member down to
work as an assistant manager. Thanks to an extensive security camera
system my son saw that the guy had taken a deposit on a reservation and
then pocketed the money. He was in a bind because he knew there would be problems for reporting a family member for theft. He ended up contacted
a trusted friend in the head office. It wasn't long after that my son
was laid off when his position had been eliminated.
It was actually a blessing. He hated the job and went looking for a job
in law enforcement. That is a time consuming process and after a couple months he took another restaurant management job. Then he was accepted
to a position with the federal government and his probationary pay was
about 40% more than he had been getting managing two restaurants, and
that was for 40 hours per week instead of 60-80 hours.
Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-09 5:34 p.m., Jill McQuown wrote:
On 3/9/2025 10:36 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
My son managed a few bars and staff turnover was a major problem.Â
He was forever firing servers, most often for theft.
I had a fun time working for a restaurant for a year back in the 90's.
Part of my job was to handle the accounting. Back of the house
stuff, including payroll. The general manager was re-assigned to a
different restaurant and the new GM changed the computer password and
wouldn't tell me what it was.
That alone can be a disaster. There was a Tim Hortons in a town about 20
miles from here that was a popular hang out for motorcyclist which the
owner encouraged because he was a motorcyclist. Unfortunately he was
killed in a bike accident. It turned out that he had kept his password
secret. That threw the restaurant business into disasterous situation.
All the payroll, banking info, scheduling, ordering etc was on the
computer and no one could access it.
I complained to the regional manager (RM). He blew off myIn my son's first manager position he had been moved to Toronto to set
concerns. Perhaps he was complicit? Turns out, the new GM added a >>> bunch of his family members to the payroll system and was forging work
hours for them and having weekly paychecks cut for them. He was
eventually caught. I no longer worked there but I did get to say to
the RM, "I told you so." :)
up a new outlet. It was a French company and the Canadian franchise was
in the hands of a Greek family, so that was his glass ceiling. After
about a year and already profitable, they sent a family member down to
work as an assistant manager. Thanks to an extensive security camera
system my son saw that the guy had taken a deposit on a reservation and
then pocketed the money. He was in a bind because he knew there would be
problems for reporting a family member for theft. He ended up contacted
a trusted friend in the head office. It wasn't long after that my son
was laid off when his position had been eliminated.
It was actually a blessing. He hated the job and went looking for a job
in law enforcement. That is a time consuming process and after a couple
months he took another restaurant management job. Then he was accepted
to a position with the federal government and his probationary pay was
about 40% more than he had been getting managing two restaurants, and
that was for 40 hours per week instead of 60-80 hours.
I bet you were very disappointed when dave Jr was scrubbed from law enforcement. :(
Do you ever take him along on trash spreading missions? That could be a great father-son binding project.
You guys could even run a mission on that restaurant that fired him for
being a snitch! How cool would that be?
On 3/8/2025 7:08 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-08 6:49 p.m., Jill McQuown wrote:
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
The customers pay the employees either way.
That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum server wage
is still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to
depend upon the kindness of strangers to make up the difference
between that and the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour.
(Technically the employer is supposed to make up the
difference.) Counting on the customer to leave more than a 50
cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is
the base server wage in this state. And oh, it doesn't matter
if you tip in cash or put it on your credit card because server
income is reported based on sales rung at the register. Handing
them a tip in cash makes no difference whatsoever in what gets
reported as taxable income to the IRS. They assume you're
earning at least the Federal minimum.
I don't know exactly how the IRS does it but up here is the CRA
and my understanding is that they have some sort of formula to
estimate the tip income that would be expected for a server. My
son was waiter in bar for a while and later managed bars. At one
time one of his cousins worked for him and the guy was making a
lot in tips and apparently not declaring them all. He got audited
and ended up owing thousands of dollars in income tax. This
nephew had worked part time as a waiter while studying restaurant
and hotel management at university. After graduation he kept
waiting tables for years because he was making so much more than
he could have as a manager.
It's been a very long time since I worked as a server. I remember
the days when tips were not reported as income. Then someone at the
IRS woke up and said hey, wait a minute! what about all that money
people keep handing them? We need to find a way to tax it! So they
decided not to rely on servers reporting what they earned. So they
calculate a percentage based on each server's sales rung up at the
register. Even if you don't make diddly squat in tips, a percentage
gets reported to the IRS as taxable income.
Jill
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make
with tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
Yes, but they don't want to pay them. Customers want to make a good
wage but want to buy stuff cheap.
I see no one yet tried putting a $$ figure on what a server should
make. I will say, the right person in the right place can do far
better than minimum.
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make
with tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be responsible for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
That's true. But in states like SC where the minimum server wage is
still a ridiculous $2.13/hour, it's kind of silly to have to depend
upon the kindness of strangers to make up the difference between that
and the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour. (Technically the
employer is supposed to make up the difference.) Counting on the
customer to leave more than a 50 cent tip on a $40 meal doesn't cut
it.
My manager and his wife eat out a LOT. He had no idea $2.13 is the
base server wage in this state. And oh, it doesn't matter if you tip
in cash or put it on your credit card because server income is
reported based on sales rung at the register. Handing them a tip in
cash makes no difference whatsoever in what gets reported as taxable
income to the IRS. They assume you're earning at least the Federal
minimum.
Jill
On 3/11/2025 8:17 PM, Carol wrote:
Ed P wrote:
Yes, but they don't want to pay them. Customers want to make a good
wage but want to buy stuff cheap.
I see no one yet tried putting a $$ figure on what a server should
make. I will say, the right person in the right place can do far
better than minimum.
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually *very rare*.
No, I'm talking about the wage if tipping is eliminated. Straight
hourly rate, no tip. State minimum? $20/hr? $30/hr?
It will be added to the food price, of course, on the menu.
Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make
with tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should be
responsible for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
Yes, but they don't want to pay them. Customers want to make a good
wage but want to buy stuff cheap.
I see no one yet tried putting a $$ figure on what a server should
make. I will say, the right person in the right place can do far
better than minimum.
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually *very rare*.
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually *very rare*.
No, I'm talking about the wage if tipping is eliminated. Straight
hourly rate, no tip. State minimum? $20/hr? $30/hr?
It will be added to the food price, of course, on the menu.
FTW... when you get beg letters from charities they have the same sort
of marketing gimmick. They really only hope for a few bucks per person
for most of their donors but what they do is take what they would really
like from you and make that the minimum option. They might hope for $10
so they make that the first option then they have $20, $50 $100. Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a little low they will go with the $20. If
the organization is really lucky they will give $50. It is a marketing
trick, and now they are doing it with tips, but starting way more than
what used to be the norm for good service.
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
FTW... when you get beg letters from charities they have the same sortA cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
of marketing gimmick. They really only hope for a few bucks per
person for most of their donors but what they do is take what they
would really like from you and make that the minimum option. They
might hope for $10 so they make that the first option then they have
$20, $50 $100. Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a little
low they will go with the $20. If the organization is really lucky
they will give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are doing it
with tips, but starting way more than what used to be the norm for
good service.
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
On 2025-03-11 11:03 p.m., Graham wrote:
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
FTW... when you get beg letters from charities they have the sameA cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
sort of marketing gimmick. They really only hope for a few bucks per
person for most of their donors but what they do is take what they
would really like from you and make that the minimum option. They
might hope for $10 so they make that the first option then they have
$20, $50 $100. Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a little
low they will go with the $20. If the organization is really lucky
they will give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are doing
it with tips, but starting way more than what used to be the norm for
good service.
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
Ouch. I would be inclined to save that $15 by not donating the $100. It
is a hell of a thing to rip off your donors.
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a littleA cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
low they will go with the $20. If the organization is really lucky
they will give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are doing it
with tips, but starting way more than what used to be the norm for
good service.
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
On 2025-03-11 11:03 p.m., Graham wrote:
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
FTW... when you get beg letters from charities they have the sameA cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
sort of marketing gimmick. They really only hope for a few bucks per
person for most of their donors but what they do is take what they
would really like from you and make that the minimum option. They
might hope for $10 so they make that the first option then they have
$20, $50 $100. Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a little
low they will go with the $20. If the organization is really lucky
they will give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are doing
it with tips, but starting way more than what used to be the norm for
good service.
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
Ouch. I would be inclined to save that $15 by not donating the $100. It
is a hell of a thing to rip off your donors.
On 2025-03-11 11:03 p.m., Graham wrote:
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a littleA cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
low they will go with the $20. If the organization is really lucky
they will give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are doing
it with tips, but starting way more than what used to be the norm for
good service.
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
I give quite generously to a Motorcycle Ride For Dads to raise money
prostate cancer and education.
On 2025-03-11 9:50 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-11 11:03 p.m., Graham wrote:
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a little low >>>> they will go with the $20. If the organization is really lucky they will >>>> give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are doing it with tips, >>>> but starting way more than what used to be the norm for good service.A cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
I give quite generously to a Motorcycle Ride For Dads to raise money
prostate cancer and education.
I'm a prostate cancer "survivor" (I hate that term) so I used to give generously to cancer charities. There was a big PC + Breast cancer
event and I gave them about $600 worth of art works. Not only did they
refuse a donation receipt, they didn't have the decency to thank me.
Another smaller cancer charity was the opposite with a receipt and TWO
thank you notes.
I checked the charities website to find that the head of the principal
cancer charity is paid over $300k/year. Nice work if you can get it!
On 2025-03-11 9:18 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
And the $15 was not tax deductible!A cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
Ouch. I would be inclined to save that $15 by not donating the $100.
It is a hell of a thing to rip off your donors.
On 2025-03-11 9:50 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
I give quite generously to a Motorcycle Ride For Dads to raise money
prostate cancer and education.
I'm a prostate cancer "survivor" (I hate that term) so I used to give generously to cancer charities. There was a big PC + Breast cancer
event and I gave them about $600 worth of art works. Not only did they
refuse a donation receipt, they didn't have the decency to thank me.
Another smaller cancer charity was the opposite with a receipt and TWO
thank you notes.
I checked the charities website to find that the head of the principal
cancer charity is paid over $300k/year. Nice work if you can get it!
On 2025-03-12 4:04 a.m., Graham wrote:
On 2025-03-11 9:18 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
And the $15 was not tax deductible!A cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
Ouch. I would be inclined to save that $15 by not donating the $100.
It is a hell of a thing to rip off your donors.
It is unfortunate that so many charitable organizations have devolved
into fund raising operations.
On 2025-03-12, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
And the $15 was not tax deductible!
It is unfortunate that so many charitable organizations have devolved
into fund raising operations.
Supposing they want to engage in the activities for which they
were created, how would they operate without fundraising?
Ed P wrote:
...
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of
the tip with others, like food runners.
it depends upon the laws of the state and also the place.
some do share all tips evenly so your preference towards a
certain server can be spread around. it's not at all what
i think makes sense.
i have relatives that do accounting and payroll for various
restaurants. i am glad i don't do it. the turnover is a
beast and then the changing laws and regulations can also
make it a PITA.
songbird
On 3/8/2025 11:56 PM, Carol wrote:
Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 10:14 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
I am not a big fan of the taxing and tipping culture and would
prefer that tax and service be included in the menu price. I do
tip but I stick to the old standard of 15% for good service
and I am fed with the pressure for a minimum 20% just for
showing up.
not the 2.13 tipped wage set.Won't work. Tipping in restaurants is ingrained and overall,
works.
Canada may be different,but in the US, states determine minimum
wage for service workers if they want more than the federal
mandate of $2.13. In Florida is in the $10,98 vs $14 for regular minimum.
The business will have to pay more so prices will go up to cover
it. People will complain, even if a tip is not needed and some
sales will be lost.
Let's say they start to pay the $14 wage. Many servers will quit.
Take a family restaurant type, Applbee's, or Chili's. What do you
think is a fair and decent wage for the server?
Oh, under present setup, servers often have to share a portion of
the tip with others, like food runners.
OK, as manager, what do you think your servers should earn?
Long ago I worked with this. What most don't know if if it's a
chain place (Applebees, Chili's, Denny's etc. including McDonalds
and that set), they have to be paid minimum wage. It's the
NON-CHAIN places where you might see the 2.13hr. Waiters at bars, Bartenders are fair game for it. Exception Hard Rock Cafe,
Hooters, etc are probably big enough to be part of the 7.25 crowd
What the heck are you talking about? Tipped employee minimum wage
varies by state. Check it out:
The people aren't going to tell you this. They want you to think
they get 2.13hr so you tip heavily in sympathy.
WTH?
Starbucks is the worst. They pay well over minimum wage and have
good benefits, even ones that help pay for a degree.
An employer can choose to pay over minimum wage but they cannot fall
below the state minimum hourly rate. In a lot of states the minimum
wage is higher than the Federal rate for both catagories.
I DO leave a good tip if service is good. I leave more if they
actually fall under the 2.13hr (a few local places do like my
favorite Chinese place) but most of them pay more than 2.13hr just
to get people.
Do you routinely discuss hourly wages with the people who work at restaurants? How do you know what they're being paid?
Jill
I was talking exactly what the others were talking about Jill. Minimum
and *tipped minimum* varies by state but can't be lower than Federal.
One says the same but uses the term 'service workers' and seems to be
*tipped minimum and that may be a Canadian term for it? I don't know Canadian laws. Or maybe that was Ed, who mentions FL as 10.98 but
doesnt say for sure that is *tipped* wage.
Ever had someone at Starbucks tell you thay you don't need to tip
because they make (insert whatever at or above mimimum they make, 20$
hr)? No. They love getting free money. I don't blame them but the
USA tipping culture has gotten out of hand.
-I even got hit up at Atlanta International Airport at McDonalds for a
tip by the machine and there was no way to abort it. I left instead.
Jill McQuown wrote:
What the heck are you talking about? Tipped employee minimum wage
varies by state. Check it out:
I was talking exactly what the others were talking about Jill. Minimum
and *tipped minimum* varies by state but can't be lower than Federal.
One says the same but uses the term 'service workers' and seems to be
*tipped minimum and that may be a Canadian term for it? I don't know Canadian laws.
The people aren't going to tell you this. They want you to thinkWTH?
they get 2.13hr so you tip heavily in sympathy.
Ever had someone at Starbucks tell you thay you don't need to tip
because they make (insert whatever at or above mimimum they make, 20$
hr)? No. They love getting free money. I don't blame them but the
USA tipping culture has gotten out of hand.
-I even got hit up at Atlanta International Airport at McDonalds for a
tip by the machine and there was no way to abort it. I left instead.
Starbucks is the worst. They pay well over minimum wage and haveAn employer can choose to pay over minimum wage but they cannot fall
good benefits, even ones that help pay for a degree.
below the state minimum hourly rate. In a lot of states the minimum
wage is higher than the Federal rate for both catagories.
Jill. do you understand when tipped rate applies?
I DO leave a good tip if service is good. I leave more if they
actually fall under the 2.13hr (a few local places do like my
favorite Chinese place) but most of them pay more than 2.13hr just
to get people.
Do you routinely discuss hourly wages with the people who work at
restaurants? How do you know what they're being paid?
Jill
Obviously NOT Jill. I don't have to ask, I know how the system works.
On 2025-03-12 6:16 p.m., Carol wrote:
Jill McQuown wrote:
What the heck are you talking about? Tipped employee minimum wage
varies by state. Check it out:
I was talking exactly what the others were talking about Jill. Minimum
and *tipped minimum* varies by state but can't be lower than Federal.
One says the same but uses the term 'service workers' and seems to be
*tipped minimum and that may be a Canadian term for it? I don't know
Canadian laws.
Only Quebec has a lower minimum for tipped employees. It is currently $12.60/hr compared to the general minimum $15.75. Ontario's minimum is $17.20.
On 2025-03-12 5:41 a.m., Graham wrote:
On 2025-03-11 9:50 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
I give quite generously to a Motorcycle Ride For Dads to raise money
prostate cancer and education.
I'm a prostate cancer "survivor" (I hate that term) so I used to give
generously to cancer charities. There was a big PC + Breast cancer
event and I gave them about $600 worth of art works. Not only did they
refuse a donation receipt, they didn't have the decency to thank me.
Another smaller cancer charity was the opposite with a receipt and TWO
thank you notes.
We had similar issues with the bursary at the camp we were associated
with for years. One year I bought something at their fundraising auction
for $1000, a lot of money for me at the time. When tax time came around
I had to contact them a half dozen times before they finally sent me a receipt. There were a number of a artists that attended that auction and
they had all been solicited to donate art work to be auction off. The purchaser got a tax receipt for their donations but the purchaser did.
One of them refused to donate any more. She was a professional artist
who had no trouble selling her work. If she donated the work she had
nothing to show for her work. The person who purchased it got a good
piece of artwork for a bargain price and got a tax receipt. Not an attractive proposition for the artist.
I checked the charities website to find that the head of the principal
cancer charity is paid over $300k/year. Nice work if you can get it!
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually*very rare*.
On 3/11/2025 11:18 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-11 11:03 p.m., Graham wrote:Fairly common, professional fund raisers. I only give to a couple of charities that I've checked out for things like that. I also ignore any
On 2025-03-11 8:02 p.m., Dave Smith wrote:
FTW... when you get beg letters from charities they have the sameA cancer charity that I used to support bills through a third party
sort of marketing gimmick. They really only hope for a few bucks
per person for most of their donors but what they do is take what
they would really like from you and make that the minimum option.
They might hope for $10 so they make that the first option then they
have $20, $50 $100. Most donors will pay that minimum $10 because
anything less would look really cheap. If they think that is a
little low they will go with the $20. If the organization is really
lucky they will give $50. It is a marketing trick, and now they are
doing it with tips, but starting way more than what used to be the
norm for good service.
billing company. They charged me $115 to make a $100 donation.
Ouch. I would be inclined to save that $15 by not donating the $100.
It is a hell of a thing to rip off your donors.
phone calls for a charity.
On 3/11/2025 8:17 PM, Carol wrote:pockets of wealthy business owners. I don't have the energy to go
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually*very rare*.
It is not *very rare*. The Federal minimum wage for tipped employees is still $2.13/hour.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Hopefully, the Federal minimum for regular and tipped employees will be raised this year.
It's a damned shame those wage laws are controlled by people in the
On 3/11/2025 8:17 PM, Carol wrote:
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually*very rare*.
It is not *very rare*. The Federal minimum wage for tipped employees is still $2.13/hour.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Hopefully, the Federal minimum for regular and tipped employees will be raised this year.
Jill
On 3/11/2025 8:17 PM, Carol wrote:
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is crazy.
They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it under the
premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually*very rare*.
It is not *very rare*. The Federal minimum wage for tipped employees is still $2.13/hour.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Hopefully, the Federal minimum for regular and tipped employees will be raised this year.
On 2025-03-14, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
Employees are required to pay them more if their tips don't bring
them up to $7.25/hour. Still a pittance, especially considering
how hard they work and what they have to put up with.
Let's see some server jobs available near me.
$14-$20/hour
$14-21/hour
$15-$50/hour
$20-35/hour
$15-25/hour
Now, maybe there's some kind of bait-and-switch, where these are
estimates that include tips.
Shit, McDonald's is offering $17/hour for "Crew Team Member" jobs.
On 2025-03-14 2:49 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-14, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
Employees are required to pay them more if their tips don't bring
them up to $7.25/hour. Still a pittance, especially considering
how hard they work and what they have to put up with.
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
Let's see some server jobs available near me.
$14-$20/hour
$14-21/hour
$15-$50/hour
$20-35/hour
$15-25/hour
Now, maybe there's some kind of bait-and-switch, where these are
estimates that include tips.
Shit, McDonald's is offering $17/hour for "Crew Team Member" jobs.
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:05:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the
hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go
around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and
hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been
injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the
highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
Being nice to other people is difficult for some people. I had an easy
time with that. I could take difficult/hostile people and turn them into >loyal patients. I'm like a silver-tongued devil. I should be dsc1 - the
C would stand for "charming."
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:05:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the
hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go
around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and
hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been >> injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the
highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
Being nice to other people is difficult for some people. I had an easy
time with that. I could take difficult/hostile people and turn them into loyal patients. I'm like a silver-tongued devil. I should be dsc1 - the
C would stand for "charming."
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:05:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the
hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go
around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and
hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been
injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the
highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
Being nice to other people is difficult for some people. I had an easy
time with that. I could take difficult/hostile people and turn them into loyal patients. I'm like a silver-tongued devil. I should be dsc1 - the
C would stand for "charming."
I used to be able to hand people a couple tickets and they would shake
my hand and thank me for being so nice to then, Heck I should have been
car salesmen.
On 2025-03-14 2:49 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-14, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
Employees are required to pay them more if their tips don't bring
them up to $7.25/hour. Still a pittance, especially considering
how hard they work and what they have to put up with.
How hard they work and what they have to put up with?
I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
On 3/14/2025 6:05 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-14 2:49 p.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-14, Jill McQuown <j_mcquown@comcast.net> wrote:
Employees are required to pay them more if their tips don't bring
them up to $7.25/hour. Still a pittance, especially considering
how hard they work and what they have to put up with.
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they have >> to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a little
restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind that paid >> peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of papers on a
two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the hottest days of >> summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow and pouring rain. >> I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go around and collect
every week which took 5 times longer than delivery, and trying to squeeze >> that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the summer I was 14 I worked for >> a house builder making basements for $1 and hour, sweating my ass off in a >> huge hole in the ground and and pushing around a bug construction size
wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or cement. I picked strawberries in a field >> in the glaring sun for what amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in the
furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more than
15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than an
oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me from the >> heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day someone was
killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been injured on the >> job and was off for four months. I later worked for the highways department >> in various positions. Four people I had worked with were killed on the
job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be nice to people?
Let's see some server jobs available near me.
$14-$20/hour
$14-21/hour
$15-$50/hour
$20-35/hour
$15-25/hour
Now, maybe there's some kind of bait-and-switch, where these are
estimates that include tips.
Shit, McDonald's is offering $17/hour for "Crew Team Member" jobs.
Hard to put that into perspective. In 1966, I earned $5760. At that time, I had a decent used car that was paid for. i got married. We bought a house and furnished it. In 1970, I earned $8300, had a different used car, same house with two kids and my wife was always a SAHM.
My first house is now valued at about 20X what I paid.
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:05:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the
hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow
and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go
around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery,
and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and
hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more
than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than
an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been
injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the
highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
Being nice to other people is difficult for some people. I had an easy
time with that. I could take difficult/hostile people and turn them into loyal patients. I'm like a silver-tongued devil. I should be dsc1 - the
C would stand for "charming."
On 2025-03-14 8:56 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:05:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they
have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind
that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of
papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the
hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow >>> and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go >>> around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery, >>> and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and >>> hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing
around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more >>> than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than >>> an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been >>> injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the
highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with
were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be
nice to people?
Being nice to other people is difficult for some people. I had an easy
time with that. I could take difficult/hostile people and turn them into
loyal patients. I'm like a silver-tongued devil. I should be dsc1 - the
C would stand for "charming."
I used to be able to hand people a couple tickets and they would shake
my hand and thank me for being so nice to then, Heck I should have been
car salesmen. Those guys can throw a real screwing into a customer, suck
the into spending thousands of dollars for nonsense stuff and the
purchases hate to leave the dealership because they have a new best
friend.
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 1:53:06 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
On 2025-03-14 8:56 p.m., dsi1 wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:05:37 +0000, Dave Smith wrote:
How hard they work and what they have to put up with? I realize they >>>> have to hustle and have to deal with idiots but my sympathy my be a
little restrained when I think back to some of the jobs I had as a kind >>>> that paid peanuts. I was a paper boy who had to deliver a heavy bag of >>>> papers on a two mile route regardless of the weather. I was out on the >>>> hottest days of summer and the coldest days of winter, in the heavy snow >>>> and pouring rain. I made next to nothing doing it and I also had to go >>>> around and collect every week which took 5 times longer than delivery, >>>> and trying to squeeze that 60 cents a week out of adults. Then the
summer I was 14 I worked for a house builder making basements for $1 and >>>> hour, sweating my ass off in a huge hole in the ground and and pushing >>>> around a bug construction size wheelbarrow loaded with gravel or
cement. I picked strawberries in a field in the glaring sun for what
amounted to about 55 cents an hour.
I had a much better summer job while I was at university. I worked in
the furnace room of an alloy smelting plant. I rarely had to work more >>>> than 15-20 minutes every hour but when I did it was usually hotter than >>>> an oven. I had to wear long johns and a heavy wool coat to protect me
from the heat. I got burned almost every day on the job and one day
someone was killed in the job. Hell I was replacing a guy who had been >>>> injured on the job and was off for four months. I later worked for the >>>> highways department in various positions. Four people I had worked with >>>> were killed on the job. And servers have to carry heavy trays and be >>>> nice to people?
Being nice to other people is difficult for some people. I had an easy
time with that. I could take difficult/hostile people and turn them into >>> loyal patients. I'm like a silver-tongued devil. I should be dsc1 - the
C would stand for "charming."
I used to be able to hand people a couple tickets and they would shake
my hand and thank me for being so nice to then, Heck I should have been
car salesmen. Those guys can throw a real screwing into a customer, suck
the into spending thousands of dollars for nonsense stuff and the
purchases hate to leave the dealership because they have a new best
friend.
That's how some folks think. My family and I never used our particular
set of skills to exploit people. It's my dad's legacy. He never took >advantage of other people's situations. He did however, disdain the rich
and powerful. Me too!
That's how some folks think. My family and I never used our particular
set of skills to exploit people. It's my dad's legacy. He never took advantage of other people's situations. He did however, disdain the rich
and powerful. Me too!
On 3/11/2025 8:17 PM, Carol wrote:
Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make
with tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should
be responsible for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
Yes, but they don't want to pay them. Customers want to make a
good wage but want to buy stuff cheap.
I see no one yet tried putting a $$ figure on what a server should
make. I will say, the right person in the right place can do far
better than minimum.
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is
crazy. They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it
under the premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually
*very rare*.
No, I'm talking about the wage if tipping is eliminated. Straight
hourly rate, no tip. State minimum? $20/hr? $30/hr? It will be
added to the food price, of course, on the menu.
Ed P wrote:
On 3/11/2025 8:17 PM, Carol wrote:
Ed P wrote:
On 3/8/2025 5:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On 2025-03-08, Dave Smith <adavid.smith@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Make it something close to what they would be expected to make
with tips. They are the restaurant's employees so they should
be responsible for paying their employees, not the customers.
The customers pay the employees either way.
Yes, but they don't want to pay them. Customers want to make a
good wage but want to buy stuff cheap.
I see no one yet tried putting a $$ figure on what a server should
make. I will say, the right person in the right place can do far
better than minimum.
Sure we did Ed. They should make state minimum wage or federal,
whichever is the lower. The reason for 'lower' is California is
crazy. They can still get tips, but folks won't be guilted into it
under the premise they make only 2.13 an hour when that is actually
*very rare*.
No, I'm talking about the wage if tipping is eliminated. Straight
hourly rate, no tip. State minimum? $20/hr? $30/hr? It will be
added to the food price, of course, on the menu.
Probably state minimum then.
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