• The Scandinavian.

    From D@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 29 23:25:35 2024
    Hello chess experts,

    I don't have a lot of time to study chess, but I still would like to do something in order to give my father in law a challenge, and based on my
    style (fairly defensive) and lack of time, I've ended up in the
    Scandinavian opening and the Colle/Zukertort system for white.

    I'm wondering if you have any advice relating to how to best study the
    two?

    Or perhaps you have some "meta-advice" about what to avoid when studying openings and systems?

    Best regards,
    Daniel

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  • From D@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Fri Mar 1 22:54:45 2024
    Hello William and thank you very much for your advice. Some comments,
    inline, below.

    On Fri, 1 Mar 2024, William Hyde wrote:

    D wrote:
    Hello chess experts,

    I don't have a lot of time to study chess, but I still would like to do
    something in order to give my father in law a challenge, and based on my
    style (fairly defensive) and lack of time, I've ended up in the
    Scandinavian opening and the Colle/Zukertort system for white.

    I'm wondering if you have any advice relating to how to best study the two? >>
    Or perhaps you have some "meta-advice" about what to avoid when studying
    openings and systems?

    Well, the Colle is an attacking system. Is it really for you? I play the Reti, which often transposes into the English, Neo-Catalan or Catalan. It's not a defensive system, but rapid attacks are rare. There is a massive amount of theory, but nobody at my level (certainly not I) knows it, so there's no burden there.

    This is an interesting insight! I've always avoided openings with loads
    of theory based on the thougth that I do not have time for it, nor the inclination. Hence the "system approach". Of course I have also heard
    that systems are bad for chess players, since it might stop or delay
    your development if you just follow the system, but in my case, I play
    for fun and I have no ambition becoming a GM or even playing
    competitively, so that is why I am fine with the system solution.

    So you are playing the Reti despite the theory with the hope that your opponents also do not know it (or at least less than you)?

    I did dabble with the Reti for a time but wasn't very good with it, so
    that is why I dropped it, but perhaps it is worth having another look.

    On lichess I am able to beat level 5 fairly often, and some times, but
    not very often level 6. I have no idea if that tells you anything about
    my skill level, but maybe it makes it easier perhaps to get a feel for
    my situation.

    Ken Smith wrote a book for class players advocating the Stonewall and the Colle for white as openings which don't require a lot of theory - compared, say, to opening 1e4 and meeting a booked up Sicilian player.
    I knew a number of B players who swore by it.

    I have heard about the Stonewall. Would you recommend that over the
    Colle? Also, when you say "B" player, what is that?

    If you are a defensive player I would not recommend the Scandanavian. The ultimate defensive opening against 1e4 is the Caro-Kann, favourite of world champion Petrosian. The French may also be seen as defensive, but you can't properly play the French without being prepared to counter attack.

    When I choose an opening Caro-Kann was actually on my list! So I think
    you have a point there. What made me go for the Scandinavian (for the
    moment) was that it is more systematic than Caro which requires more preparation and theory. Both (if I am informed correctly) are positional
    and attainable.

    I have not read it myself, but Reuben Fine's "The ideas behind the chess openings" has been frequently recommended. It will teach the general strategies and plans for each openings, without presenting a forest of variations.

    The thing to avoid is opening books which give columns of variations without general discussion. I have several of these, useful sometimes
    in postal chess, but not otherwise.

    Oh yes! If I have a wall of chess moves in an opening book I just "space
    out". It gives me very little. I need chess opening books with text,
    lots of pictures tracking the position (so I don't have to visualize too
    many moves in a row) and a pinch of humour. When I can find a book like
    that I do manage to stick with it way longer than the "wall of text"
    books.

    Best regards,
    Daniel

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 2 23:40:43 2024
    On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 16:07:15 -0500, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    I have not read it myself, but Reuben Fine's "The ideas behind the chess >openings" has been frequently recommended. It will teach the general >strategies and plans for each openings, without presenting a forest of >variations.

    I would be delighted if some GM of what was then Fine's stature (e.g.
    a serious world championship candidate) would do a new book along
    these lines but in fairness it's long ago dated and anybody who took
    Fine's advice too directly to heart would be dead meat amongst modern
    strong amateurs much less the "big boys".

    I mean - right now I'm reading Keres' book on the 1948 World
    Championship Match/Tournament and am having a highly enjoyable
    experience (it's an excellent book and worth your time) but I wouldn't
    dare to use their 75 year old opening theory against Class A / Expert competition now. (Heck I wouldn't even use the openings I used in my
    teens now!)

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  • From D@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Sun Mar 3 15:41:53 2024
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Sat, 2 Mar 2024, William Hyde wrote:

    D wrote:
    Hello William and thank you very much for your advice. Some comments,
    inline, below.

    On Fri, 1 Mar 2024, William Hyde wrote:

    D wrote:
    Hello chess experts,

    I don't have a lot of time to study chess, but I still would like to do >>>> something in order to give my father in law a challenge, and based on my >>>> style (fairly defensive) and lack of time, I've ended up in the
    Scandinavian opening and the Colle/Zukertort system for white.

    I'm wondering if you have any advice relating to how to best study the >>>> two?

    Or perhaps you have some "meta-advice" about what to avoid when studying >>>> openings and systems?

    Well, the Colle is an attacking system.  Is it really for you?  I play the
    Reti, which often transposes into the English, Neo-Catalan or Catalan.  >>> It's not a defensive system, but rapid attacks are rare. There is a
    massive amount of theory, but nobody at my level (certainly not I) knows >>> it, so there's no burden there.

    This is an interesting insight! I've always avoided openings with loads
    of theory based on the thougth that I do not have time for it, nor the
    inclination. Hence the "system approach". Of course I have also heard
    that systems are bad for chess players, since it might stop or delay
    your development if you just follow the system,

    As long as you don't play by rote, you will learn whatever you play.

    True. But I find, like most activities, that it takes more and more time
    to improve the more you learn. For me, since I only dabble when I have
    time, the road feels very long and winding indeed. ;)

    That reminds me, I had the pleasure of being coached by an IM for a
    brief time, and he had the same realization and eventually quit chess.
    The reason was that he felt excatly the same when contemplating going
    from IM to GM and came to the conclusion that it would consume his life
    and that it was not a sacrifice worth making, so he stopped playing professional chess.

    I don't think the Colle or the Stonewall are good openings, in the sense that black can equalize more easily against these relatively simple systems. But neither of us are grandmasters and both systems have more than enough fine points to keep us and our opponents confused.

    That's my thinking exactly. I don't prepare for 1900+. The people I play
    I estimate to be in the range of 1400 to 1900, and I think you can do
    quite well with systems and the two above ones in that range.

    for fun and I have no ambition becoming a GM or even playing
    competitively, so that is why I am fine with the system solution.

    So you are playing the Reti despite the theory with the hope that your
    opponents also do not know it (or at least less than you)?
    ...
    I did dabble with the Reti for a time but wasn't very good with it, so
    that is why I dropped it, but perhaps it is worth having another look.

    On lichess I am able to beat level 5 fairly often, and some times, but
    not very often level 6. I have no idea if that tells you anything about
    my skill level, but maybe it makes it easier perhaps to get a feel for
    my situation.

    Sounds like you are reasonably good. Stockfish at level six is usually pretty good, but when the server is crowded it can play rather badly. I've posted a few games I played here against five or six, often very silly games, but six will definitely crush me if I'm not trying hard.

    Ahhh! That would probably explain the few wins I have on level 6. I find
    the difference between level 5 and 6 way bigger than the difference from
    level 4 and 5. At level 6 I really need to focus and concentrate. Level
    5 is way more lenient.

    Then I discovered a weird "bug" and that is that at some levels the
    computer absolutely refuses to exchange queens, so what happens
    sometimes is you can offer very stupid queen exchanges, and instead of
    taking them, level 4 and 5 refuses and thus ends up in a much worse
    situation. Very strange.

    Ken Smith wrote a book for class players advocating the Stonewall and the >>> Colle for white as openings which don't require a lot of theory -
    compared, say, to opening 1e4 and meeting a booked up Sicilian player.
    I knew a number of B players who swore by it.

    I have heard about the Stonewall. Would you recommend that over the
    Colle? Also, when you say "B" player, what is that?

    Good question. The kind of B player I am referring to was rated 1600-1800 OTB years ago. So, probably 1800-2000 on Lichess.

    Got it!

    I like playing the stonewall from either side (in fact even starting with 1NF3 can lead to a stonewall-like formation which has won me some very nice games OTB). I am not so fond of the Colle, though I think its reputation among strong players is better.

    That's another bonus for me. Focusing on a small set of openings that
    can be played with both colors and in many situations in order to save
    me some time. The idea is to be able to get 3-8 "safe" moves from the
    start, and be comfortable with the situation those 3-8 moves will take
    me.

    1NF3 is a classic trick in my book to "confuse" the opponent or at least
    keep him on edge for a move or two not knowing what to expect, so I like starting with it when I play systems.

    If you are a defensive player I would not recommend the Scandanavian. The >>> ultimate defensive opening against 1e4 is the Caro-Kann, favourite of
    world champion Petrosian.  The French may also be seen as defensive, but >>> you can't properly play the French without being prepared to counter
    attack.

    When I choose an opening Caro-Kann was actually on my list! So I think
    you have a point there. What made me go for the Scandinavian (for the
    moment) was that it is more systematic than Caro which requires more
    preparation and theory. Both (if I am informed correctly) are positional
    and attainable.

    I like the Scandanavian, but only in the variation where black does is prepared to gambit a pawn, playing Nf6 rather than recapturing the pawn. After Qxd4 I find it very easy to lose.

    So far I haven't had that problem, but, on the other hand, I haven't
    really spent that much time with it.

    I don't play the Caro-Kann, but I have noticed that I am annoyingly unsuccessful against it. Time and again when I think I have an edge I find that black's defensive resources are sufficient, and I drift into an inferior endgame.

    Caro is interesting. I know a programmer, a thoughtful guy, kind of
    strategic. And then I found out that he found chess as a new hobby, and
    lo and behold, his favourite opening is the Caro, just as I would have
    expected knowing his temperament. ;)

    I started chess as a defensive/technical player. And many of my wins were and are defensive ones (they have to be, given how often I get in serious trouble in the opening). But I became a much stronger player when I learned to enjoy the attack (and especially the counter-attack!).

    My IM told me that I do need to get more comfortable with attacking and
    adviced me to play the Trumpowski from time to time as "medicine".

    All the great "defensive" players, even Petrosian, knew well how to attack, and did so when the position called for it.

    True.

    Best regards,
    Daniel



    William Hyde

    I have not read it myself, but Reuben Fine's "The ideas behind the chess >>> openings" has been frequently recommended.  It will teach the general
    strategies and plans for each openings, without presenting a forest of
    variations.

    The thing to avoid is opening books which give columns of variations
    without general discussion.  I have several of these, useful sometimes
    in postal chess, but not otherwise.

    Oh yes! If I have a wall of chess moves in an opening book I just "space
    out". It gives me very little. I need chess opening books with text,
    lots of pictures tracking the position (so I don't have to visualize too
    many moves in a row) and a pinch of humour. When I can find a book like
    that I do manage to stick with it way longer than the "wall of text"
    books.

    Best regards, Daniel




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