On 6/6/2024 7:45 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Hi all,
Some of you may recall my previous questions about the subpar
performance of the Interstate SRM-24 deep cycle 12 V battery on my
Lance 1475. I'm thinking more about possibly replacing it with a
pair of 6 V batteries in series and am hoping for some advice.
To wire in a battery pair, I think it would just be a matter of
connecting the positive terminal of one battery to the negative
terminal of other, then connecting the trailer's cables (with
correct signs, of course) to the remaining two battery terminals.
Is there more to it than that?
Correct. Wired in series (positive to negative) the AH remains the same
and voltage doubles. Wired in Parallel (positive to positive) AH
doubles and the voltage remains the same.
<https://i2.wp.com/trekwithus.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/batteries-series-vs-parallel.jpg>
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 power control center
and a Go Power! GP-BMK-25 battery monitor. After switching the
batteries, I think I'd simply reset the monitor to reflect the
higher capacity. Does that sound right? >
Is it too simple to think the PD4000 would use (and charge!) the
new battery pair without any additional changes needed?
You definitely will have to reset the AH capacity. Other than that, it
looks like everything else is automatic. Here's the manual in case you
don't have it.
<https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0662/5846/9117/files/MAN_GP-BMK-25.pdf?v=1675091041>
Hi all,
Some of you may recall my previous questions about the subpar
performance of the Interstate SRM-24 deep cycle 12 V battery on my
Lance 1475. I'm thinking more about possibly replacing it with a
pair of 6 V batteries in series and am hoping for some advice.
To wire in a battery pair, I think it would just be a matter of
connecting the positive terminal of one battery to the negative
terminal of other, then connecting the trailer's cables (with
correct signs, of course) to the remaining two battery terminals.
Is there more to it than that?
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 power control center
and a Go Power! GP-BMK-25 battery monitor. After switching the
batteries, I think I'd simply reset the monitor to reflect the
higher capacity. Does that sound right? >
Is it too simple to think the PD4000 would use (and charge!) the
new battery pair without any additional changes needed?
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2024 7:45 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
To wire in a battery pair, I think it would just be a matter
of connecting the positive terminal of one battery to the
negative terminal of other, then connecting the trailer's
cables (with correct signs, of course) to the remaining two
battery terminals. Is there more to it than that?
Correct. Wired in series (positive to negative) the AH
remains the same and voltage doubles. Wired in Parallel
(positive to positive) AH doubles and the voltage remains the
same.
<https://i2.wp.com/trekwithus.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/batteries-series-vs-parallel.jpg>
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 power control
center and a Go Power! GP-BMK-25 battery monitor. After
switching the batteries, I think I'd simply reset the monitor
to reflect the higher capacity. Does that sound right? > Is
it too simple to think the PD4000 would use (and charge!) the
new battery pair without any additional changes needed?
You definitely will have to reset the AH capacity. Other than
that, it looks like everything else is automatic. Here's the
manual in case you don't have it.
<https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0662/5846/9117/files/MAN_GP-BMK-25.pdf?v=1675091041>
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 15:10:01 -0000 (UTC),
George.Anthony <ganthony@gmail.net> wrote:
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2024 7:45 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
To wire in a battery pair, I think it would just be a matter
of connecting the positive terminal of one battery to the
negative terminal of other, then connecting the trailer's
cables (with correct signs, of course) to the remaining two
battery terminals. Is there more to it than that?
Correct. Wired in series (positive to negative) the AH
remains the same and voltage doubles. Wired in Parallel
(positive to positive) AH doubles and the voltage remains the
same.
<https://i2.wp.com/trekwithus.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/batteries-series-vs-parallel.jpg>
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 power control
center and a Go Power! GP-BMK-25 battery monitor. After
switching the batteries, I think I'd simply reset the monitor
to reflect the higher capacity. Does that sound right? > Is
it too simple to think the PD4000 would use (and charge!) the
new battery pair without any additional changes needed?
You definitely will have to reset the AH capacity. Other than
that, it looks like everything else is automatic. Here's the
manual in case you don't have it.
<https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0662/5846/9117/files/MAN_GP-BMK-25.pdf?v=1675091041>
Thanks, both--much appreciated.
The original Interstate SRM-24 seems done for. I stupidly missed
turning off the disconnect switch last time I checked it, so it
was of course quite dead. It then spent some time on my NOCO
Genius 5 charger. After *quite* a while it indicated a full
charge, but the $2 hygrometer from Walmart showed all cells nearly
dead.
I ran it through the charger's reconditioning cycle, then charged
it again. The hygrometer still shows a couple of cells at 25% and
the rest at zero. I'm questioning the accuracy of that really
cheap hygrometer, and considering looking for a better one. In
any case, I think it's time for a new battery.
To the original question, there's no way two batteries will
fit on the battery rack that came with the trailer. A new one
would be needed if I go with two batteries, but I'm not sure two
would even fit in the available space. It's irregular (behind the
LP tank in the small Lance 1475 tongue), so I'm not sure how to
measure it. I'm thinking of making a cardboard box about the same
dimensions as two batteries, just to give a rough sense if it's
even possible to fit it in. Are there better approaches?
On 6/8/2024 8:27 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 15:10:01 -0000 (UTC),
George.Anthony <ganthony@gmail.net> wrote:
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2024 7:45 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 power control
center and a Go Power! GP-BMK-25 battery monitor. After
switching the batteries, I think I'd simply reset the
monitor to reflect the higher capacity. Does that sound
right? > Is it too simple to think the PD4000 would use
(and charge!) the new battery pair without any additional
changes needed?
You definitely will have to reset the AH capacity. Other
than that, it looks like everything else is automatic.
Here's the manual in case you don't have it.
<https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0662/5846/9117/files/MAN_GP-BMK-25.pdf?v=1675091041>
Thanks, both--much appreciated.
The original Interstate SRM-24 seems done for...
In any case, I think it's time for a new battery.
To the original question, there's no way two batteries will
fit on the battery rack that came with the trailer. A new one
would be needed if I go with two batteries, but I'm not sure
two would even fit in the available space. It's irregular
(behind the LP tank in the small Lance 1475 tongue), so I'm
not sure how to measure it. I'm thinking of making a
cardboard box about the same dimensions as two batteries, just
to give a rough sense if it's even possible to fit it in.
Are there better approaches?
A mock up might be helpful but it sounds like some modification
will be in order regardless. Time, money and effort wise it may
be easier just to stick with 12V.
...There's always LiFePO4 (lithium)
but one of those puppies is close to $1K and you may need to
change your charger/inverter. As are most things in life, it
all comes down to $$. What's it worth to you.
On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 11:04:16 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 6/8/2024 8:27 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 15:10:01 -0000 (UTC),
George.Anthony <ganthony@gmail.net> wrote:
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 6/6/2024 7:45 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 power control
center and a Go Power! GP-BMK-25 battery monitor. After
switching the batteries, I think I'd simply reset the
monitor to reflect the higher capacity. Does that sound
right? > Is it too simple to think the PD4000 would use
(and charge!) the new battery pair without any additional
changes needed?
You definitely will have to reset the AH capacity. Other
than that, it looks like everything else is automatic.
Here's the manual in case you don't have it.
<https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0662/5846/9117/files/MAN_GP-BMK-25.pdf?v=1675091041>
Thanks, both--much appreciated.
The original Interstate SRM-24 seems done for...
In any case, I think it's time for a new battery.
To the original question, there's no way two batteries will
fit on the battery rack that came with the trailer. A new one
would be needed if I go with two batteries, but I'm not sure
two would even fit in the available space. It's irregular
(behind the LP tank in the small Lance 1475 tongue), so I'm
not sure how to measure it. I'm thinking of making a
cardboard box about the same dimensions as two batteries, just
to give a rough sense if it's even possible to fit it in.
Are there better approaches?
A mock up might be helpful but it sounds like some modification
will be in order regardless. Time, money and effort wise it may
be easier just to stick with 12V.
Yeah, that's where I'm leaning too. Even if would be possible to
shoehorn in two batteries, getting at them would likely be a royal
pain in the rear.
...There's always LiFePO4 (lithium)
but one of those puppies is close to $1K and you may need to
change your charger/inverter. As are most things in life, it
all comes down to $$. What's it worth to you.
The power center manual...
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/manuals/110145-English.pdf
..indicates it can accomodate lithium batteries. I don't have
unlimited $$, but am not bad off either. So I'm leaning toward
lithium. Looking online, it seems the 100 Ah options run a couple
hundred,
https://www.walmart.com/ip/1Autodepot-12V-100Ah-LiFePO4-Lithium-Battery-Built-in-100A-Smart-BMS-Upgraded-Mini-Size-Lightweight-Perfect-RV-Solar-Marine-Overland-Van-Off-Grid-App/5288591136?adsRedirect=true
...and even 200 Ah versions (bigger form factor) are in the
neighborhood of $600. Am I looking at the wrong thing?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/LiTime-12V-200Ah-PLUS-Lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Max-2560W-200A-BMS-LiFePO4-Battery-10-Year-Lifetime-for-RV-Solar-off-Grid-Marine/1373447441
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 11:04:16 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
...There's always LiFePO4 (lithium) but one of those puppies
is close to $1K and you may need to change your
charger/inverter. As are most things in life, it all comes
down to $$. What's it worth to you.
The power center manual...
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/manuals/110145-English.pdf
..indicates it can accomodate lithium batteries. I don't have
unlimited $$, but am not bad off either. So I'm leaning
toward lithium. Looking online, it seems the 100 Ah options
run a couple hundred,
https://www.walmart.com/ip/1Autodepot-12V-100Ah-LiFePO4-Lithium-Battery-Built-in-100A-Smart-BMS-Upgraded-Mini-Size-Lightweight-Perfect-RV-Solar-Marine-Overland-Van-Off-Grid-App/5288591136?adsRedirect=true
...and even 200 Ah versions (bigger form factor) are in the
neighborhood of $600. Am I looking at the wrong thing?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/LiTime-12V-200Ah-PLUS-Lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Max-2560W-200A-BMS-LiFePO4-Battery-10-Year-Lifetime-for-RV-Solar-off-Grid-Marine/1373447441
I was using Battle Born batteries as a reference. They are
considered the gold standard as far as I can tell. I don’t know
much about lithium batteries. You should probably do some
research if lithium is an option you are considering. Good
luck.
On Sun, 9 Jun 2024 23:59:11 -0000 (UTC),
George.Anthony <ganthony@gmail.net> wrote:
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 11:04:16 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
...There's always LiFePO4 (lithium) but one of those puppies
is close to $1K and you may need to change your
charger/inverter. As are most things in life, it all comes
down to $$. What's it worth to you.
The power center manual...
https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/manuals/110145-English.pdf
..indicates it can accomodate lithium batteries. I don't have
unlimited $$, but am not bad off either. So I'm leaning
toward lithium. Looking online, it seems the 100 Ah options
run a couple hundred,
https://www.walmart.com/ip/1Autodepot-12V-100Ah-LiFePO4-Lithium-Battery-Built-in-100A-Smart-BMS-Upgraded-Mini-Size-Lightweight-Perfect-RV-Solar-Marine-Overland-Van-Off-Grid-App/5288591136?adsRedirect=true
...and even 200 Ah versions (bigger form factor) are in the
neighborhood of $600. Am I looking at the wrong thing?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/LiTime-12V-200Ah-PLUS-Lithium-LiFePO4-Battery-Max-2560W-200A-BMS-LiFePO4-Battery-10-Year-Lifetime-for-RV-Solar-off-Grid-Marine/1373447441
I was using Battle Born batteries as a reference. They are
considered the gold standard as far as I can tell. I don’t know
much about lithium batteries. You should probably do some
research if lithium is an option you are considering. Good
luck.
Hey, just to close the loop on this, I forgot to flip the battery
disconnect switch when I checked on the SRM-24 a few weeks ago, so
naturally it was dead when I checked again last week. I
reconditioned and charged it a couple of times, but a hygrometer
showed zero charge in nearly all cells. I had the local
Interstate shop check it--they said it was fine, but I’d lost
confidence in it so I left it for recycling.
On Friday I ordered a group size 24 LiTime LiFePO4 battery...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYT9NR5M?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
It comes with Bluetooth and was reasonably priced ($300). It has
low temp shutoff protection, and I expect I may need to add a
heating pad. We’ll see how it does.
On Friday I ordered a group size 24 LiTime LiFePO4 battery...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYT9NR5M?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
It comes with Bluetooth and was reasonably priced ($300). It has
low temp shutoff protection, and I expect I may need to add a
heating pad. We’ll see how it does.
In article <slrnv6tup1.3hr.theise@panix2.panix.com>,
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Friday I ordered a group size 24 LiTime LiFePO4 battery...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYT9NR5M?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
It comes with Bluetooth and was reasonably priced ($300). It
has low temp shutoff protection, and I expect I may need to add
a heating pad. We’ll see how it does.
That's a "Good grief, that's an impossibly low price for 100AH
Lithium. Got to be from some sketchy Chinese corner-cutting
outfit" price.
I checked the link; they are delivering batteries, apparently,
but you'll need to make sure they're inside your rig, away from
water splashes. (I.e., probably not in a Class C under the
front step location.)
No reports of them catching fire, though, so there is that.
80% five-star rating, so your odds seem pretty good.
Top critical review
Charlie Porter
1.0 out of 5 stars
Not for wet climate or boat
Reviewed in the United States on June 5, 2024
Mounted 2 in battery tray on rv. Had some bad storms and
1 battery got water inside and shorted out. Manual said to
not immerse in water but nothing about they need to be in a
dry box. Can’t see how they could be recommended for rv or
boat if they’re going to leak in a rain storm. Litime is
refusing to honor warranty.
In article <slrnv6tup1.3hr.theise@panix2.panix.com>,
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Friday I ordered a group size 24 LiTime LiFePO4 battery...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYT9NR5M?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
It comes with Bluetooth and was reasonably priced ($300). It has
low temp shutoff protection, and I expect I may need to add a
heating pad. We’ll see how it does.
That's a "Good grief, that's an impossibly low price for 100AH
Lithium. Got to be from some sketchy Chinese corner-cutting
outfit" price.
I checked the link; they are delivering batteries, apparently,
but you'll need to make sure they're inside your rig, away
from water splashes. (I.e., probably not in a Class C under
the front step location.)
No reports of them catching fire, though, so there is that.
80% five-star rating, so your odds seem pretty good.
Top critical review
Charlie Porter
1.0 out of 5 stars
Not for wet climate or boat
Reviewed in the United States on June 5, 2024
Mounted 2 in battery tray on rv. Had some bad storms and
1 battery got water inside and shorted out. Manual said to
not immerse in water but nothing about they need to be in a
dry box. Can’t see how they could be recommended for rv or
boat if they’re going to leak in a rain storm. Litime is
refusing to honor warranty.
In article <slrnv75sqh.64f.theise@panix2.panix.com>, theise@panix.com
says...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 18:01:20 -0000 (UTC),
Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
In article <slrnv6tup1.3hr.theise@panix2.panix.com>,
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Friday I ordered a group size 24 LiTime LiFePO4 battery...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYT9NR5M?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
It comes with Bluetooth and was reasonably priced ($300). It
has low temp shutoff protection, and I expect I may need to add
a heating pad. We?ll see how it does.
That's a "Good grief, that's an impossibly low price for 100AH
Lithium. Got to be from some sketchy Chinese corner-cutting
outfit" price.
Not sure about the "impossibly low price" here. My impression is
that LFP battery prices have come down, though I see the similar
Battle Born model is $925 on Amazon. Most of what I found on
searching was in the $300-400 range. Maybe they're all sketchy
Chinese companies. It's true the one I ordered from is Chinese.
I looked at this sort of battery--briefly. I decided they
have two problems: price and reliability. The problem with the
LiOn batteries is that they all need a "battery management
system". These can vary widely in quality and there frequently
isn't any way to tell what you're buying unless you spend the
big bucks. I don't need a battery that might last past my
lifetime. I decided to go with sealed lead acid batteries that
are frequently used in wheelchairs. Those people can get around
a year out of their batteries. I use these so lightly that I
should get at least five years out of them. The downside of my
system is that I needed a special charger to recharge these
batteries from my alternator. But, they are rugged and they
aren't likely to die on me in the middle of nowhere.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 13:21:00 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote (about a LiFePO4):
THanks for the input. I'll let the group know how it goes after
some experience with the battery.
Okay, we camped the past week with the new battery. Seemed to
work fine. One drawback is that the battery does not get charged
while towing. Looking through things on the web, it seems this
may be typical. Any hints on what I would need to do to make it
possible to charge from the tow vehicle? It looks like I might
have to install a DC-DC charger? Presumably in the tow vehicle
somewhere?
THanks for the input. I'll let the group know how it goes after
some experience with the battery.
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 13:21:00 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote (about a LiFePO4):
THanks for the input. I'll let the group know how it goes
after some experience with the battery.
Okay, we camped the past week with the new battery. Seemed to
work fine. One drawback is that the battery does not get
charged while towing. Looking through things on the web, it
seems this may be typical. Any hints on what I would need to
do to make it possible to charge from the tow vehicle? It
looks like I might have to install a DC-DC charger?
Presumably in the tow vehicle somewhere?
If you have a seven pin connector on your tow vehicle, one of
the pins should have 12 volts. Did your vehicle come with a pre
wired connector or did you have it installed after market? They
may not have connected the 12v pin. Best way is to check for
12v at the vehicle connector. You may need to have the key on.
If you do have 12V on one of the pins, just run wire from the
corresponding pin on the trailer plug to the trailer battery
positive post.
Essentially what you will have is a connection from the tow
vehicle battery to the trailer battery via the plug. This
probably won’t charge a dead battery but should keep a charged
one up.
On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 14:55:35 -0000 (UTC),
George.Anthony <ganthony@gmail.net> wrote:
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2024 13:21:00 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote (about a LiFePO4):
THanks for the input. I'll let the group know how it goes
after some experience with the battery.
Okay, we camped the past week with the new battery. Seemed to
work fine. One drawback is that the battery does not get
charged while towing. Looking through things on the web, it
seems this may be typical. Any hints on what I would need to
do to make it possible to charge from the tow vehicle? It
looks like I might have to install a DC-DC charger?
Presumably in the tow vehicle somewhere?
If you have a seven pin connector on your tow vehicle, one of
the pins should have 12 volts. Did your vehicle come with a pre
wired connector or did you have it installed after market? They
may not have connected the 12v pin. Best way is to check for
12v at the vehicle connector. You may need to have the key on.
If you do have 12V on one of the pins, just run wire from the
corresponding pin on the trailer plug to the trailer battery
positive post.
Essentially what you will have is a connection from the tow
vehicle battery to the trailer battery via the plug. This
probably won’t charge a dead battery but should keep a charged
one up.
Okay, I was too sparse with details. The tow vehicle is a 2023
Acadia Denai with a factory installed trailering package. It does
have the 7-pin connector, and 12 V is available on the aux (pin 4) blade--even with the car not running.
The battery has a nifty bluetooth system that reports its status
to an app on my phone. I turned on a few lights in the trailer
and the battery reported it was discharging with some 80 hours of
service remaining (SOC was 89/99 Ah).
Then I connected the 7-pin to the running Acadia. The battery
still reported discharge, but the remaining service went down to
about 16 hours. Exactly the opposite of what I'd expect. Any
thoughts about what's going on here?
My next step may be to check the voltage at the battery connector
cables when the trailer (without the battery) is connected to the
Acadia. Does that seem worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback, and to Ralph as well.
Okay, I was too sparse with details. The tow vehicle is a 2023
Acadia Denai with a factory installed trailering package. It does
have the 7-pin connector, and 12 V is available on the aux (pin 4) blade--even with the car not running.
The battery has a nifty bluetooth system that reports its status
to an app on my phone. I turned on a few lights in the trailer
and the battery reported it was discharging with some 80 hours of
service remaining (SOC was 89/99 Ah).
Then I connected the 7-pin to the running Acadia. The battery
still reported discharge, but the remaining service went down to
about 16 hours. Exactly the opposite of what I'd expect. Any
thoughts about what's going on here?
My next step may be to check the voltage at the battery connector
cables when the trailer (without the battery) is connected to the
Acadia. Does that seem worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback, and to Ralph as well.
On 7/24/2024 8:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Okay, I was too sparse with details. The tow vehicle is a 2023
Acadia Denai with a factory installed trailering package. It does
have the 7-pin connector, and 12 V is available on the aux (pin 4)
blade--even with the car not running.
The battery has a nifty bluetooth system that reports its status
to an app on my phone. I turned on a few lights in the trailer
and the battery reported it was discharging with some 80 hours of
service remaining (SOC was 89/99 Ah).
Then I connected the 7-pin to the running Acadia. The battery
still reported discharge, but the remaining service went down to
about 16 hours. Exactly the opposite of what I'd expect. Any
thoughts about what's going on here?
The vehicle does not need to be running for the trailer to draw from the 7-pin and the Acadia. I'd be interested to know if this result is the
same with the engine off. This result almost appears to show the Acadia battery is drawing off the trailers. You also have to figure in the difference between deep cycle and automotive batteries that are really intended to give a high cranking power where the deep cycle deliver
steady power.
My next step may be to check the voltage at the battery connector
cables when the trailer (without the battery) is connected to the
Acadia. Does that seem worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback, and to Ralph as well.
Chasing down electrical problems is one of the last jobs I want. It is
so hit and miss. If it were me, I would install one of those DC to DC chargers directly. From what I can tell, you really are not going to
get the trailer charged up that good with the 7-pin. It is more for maintenance and running trailer lights. If you want a fully charged
battery once you arrive at the site, you might want to take the plunge
and do it.
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep the battery on
the vehicle I am towing behind my motorhome charged, not a trailer
battery but... Anyway, here it is again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
On 7/24/2024 8:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jul 2024 14:55:35 -0000 (UTC),
George.Anthony <ganthony@gmail.net> wrote:
If you have a seven pin connector on your tow vehicle, one
of the pins should have 12 volts. Did your vehicle come
with a pre wired connector or did you have it installed
after market? They may not have connected the 12v pin. Best
way is to check for 12v at the vehicle connector. You may
need to have the key on. If you do have 12V on one of the
pins, just run wire from the corresponding pin on the
trailer plug to the trailer battery positive post.
Essentially what you will have is a connection from the tow
vehicle battery to the trailer battery via the plug. This
probably won’t charge a dead battery but should keep a
charged one up.
Okay, I was too sparse with details. The tow vehicle is a
2023 Acadia Denai with a factory installed trailering package.
It does have the 7-pin connector, and 12 V is available on the
aux (pin 4) blade--even with the car not running.
My next step may be to check the voltage at the battery
connector cables when the trailer (without the battery) is
connected to the Acadia. Does that seem worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback, and to Ralph as well.
That would tell you if you are getting voltage to the trailer
from pin 4.
...How many wires are connected to the positive battery
terminal? You likely have the main cable (of course) and at
least one to provide power to the break away switch.
Also, make sure all your ground connections are clean and
tight. DC voltage doesn't do well with poor ground connections.
On 7/24/2024 11:28 AM, sticks wrote:
On 7/24/2024 8:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Okay, I was too sparse with details. The tow vehicle is a
2023 Acadia Denai with a factory installed trailering
package. It does have the 7-pin connector, and 12 V is
available on the aux (pin 4) blade--even with the car not
running.
The battery has a nifty bluetooth system that reports its
status to an app on my phone. I turned on a few lights in
the trailer and the battery reported it was discharging with
some 80 hours of service remaining (SOC was 89/99 Ah).
Then I connected the 7-pin to the running Acadia. The
battery still reported discharge, but the remaining service
went down to about 16 hours. Exactly the opposite of what
I'd expect. Any thoughts about what's going on here?
The vehicle does not need to be running for the trailer to
draw from the 7-pin and the Acadia. I'd be interested to know
if this result is the same with the engine off. This result
almost appears to show the Acadia battery is drawing off the
trailers.
...You also have to figure in the difference between deep
cycle and automotive batteries that are really intended to
give a high cranking power where the deep cycle deliver steady
power.
My next step may be to check the voltage at the battery
connector cables when the trailer (without the battery) is
connected to the Acadia. Does that seem worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback, and to Ralph as well.
Chasing down electrical problems is one of the last jobs I
want. It is so hit and miss.
...If it were me, I would install one of those DC to DC
chargers directly. From what I can tell, you really are not
going to get the trailer charged up that good with the 7-pin.
It is more for maintenance and running trailer lights. If you
want a fully charged battery once you arrive at the site, you
might want to take the plunge and do it.
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep the
battery on the vehicle I am towing behind my motorhome charged,
not a trailer battery but... Anyway, here it is again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 15:00:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/24/2024 11:28 AM, sticks wrote:
On 7/24/2024 8:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Okay, I was too sparse with details. The tow vehicle is a
2023 Acadia Denai with a factory installed trailering
package. It does have the 7-pin connector, and 12 V is
available on the aux (pin 4) blade--even with the car not
running.
The battery has a nifty bluetooth system that reports its
status to an app on my phone. I turned on a few lights in
the trailer and the battery reported it was discharging with
some 80 hours of service remaining (SOC was 89/99 Ah).
Then I connected the 7-pin to the running Acadia. The
battery still reported discharge, but the remaining service
went down to about 16 hours. Exactly the opposite of what
I'd expect. Any thoughts about what's going on here?
The vehicle does not need to be running for the trailer to
draw from the 7-pin and the Acadia. I'd be interested to know
if this result is the same with the engine off. This result
almost appears to show the Acadia battery is drawing off the
trailers.
That makes sense and seems like a possibility. Not at all
something that would have occurred to me.
...You also have to figure in the difference between deep
cycle and automotive batteries that are really intended to
give a high cranking power where the deep cycle deliver steady
power.
Not sure how I would go about this figuring. Any tips for this
ignoramus?
My next step may be to check the voltage at the battery
connector cables when the trailer (without the battery) is
connected to the Acadia. Does that seem worthwhile?
Thanks for the feedback, and to Ralph as well.
Chasing down electrical problems is one of the last jobs I
want. It is so hit and miss.
Yeah, and especially so for folks like me who have a hard time
understanding electrical systems.
Yes....If it were me, I would install one of those DC to DC
chargers directly. From what I can tell, you really are not
going to get the trailer charged up that good with the 7-pin.
It is more for maintenance and running trailer lights. If you
want a fully charged battery once you arrive at the site, you
might want to take the plunge and do it.
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep the
battery on the vehicle I am towing behind my motorhome charged,
not a trailer battery but... Anyway, here it is again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
This looks very promising. I'd like to do some off grid camping
and am not keen on going with solar, so it seems as if this would
be an option that could let me stop somewhere for the night and
start with a relatively fully charged battery.
Am I correct in thinking the power for charging with this setup
while towing would be drawn from the tow vehicle's electrical
system?
On 7/25/2024 9:16 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 15:00:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/24/2024 11:28 AM, sticks wrote:
...If it were me, I would install one of those DC to DC
chargers directly. From what I can tell, you really are not
going to get the trailer charged up that good with the
7-pin. It is more for maintenance and running trailer
lights. If you want a fully charged battery once you arrive
at the site, you might want to take the plunge and do it.
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep
the battery on the vehicle I am towing behind my motorhome
charged, not a trailer battery but... Anyway, here it is
again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
This looks very promising. I'd like to do some off grid
camping and am not keen on going with solar, so it seems as if
this would be an option that could let me stop somewhere for
the night and start with a relatively fully charged battery.
Am I correct in thinking the power for charging with this
setup while towing would be drawn from the tow vehicle's
electrical system?
Yes.
Would I need to be concerned about overloading it?
Not likely.
On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 14:48:39 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/25/2024 9:16 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 15:00:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/24/2024 11:28 AM, sticks wrote:
...If it were me, I would install one of those DC to DC
chargers directly. From what I can tell, you really are not
going to get the trailer charged up that good with the
7-pin. It is more for maintenance and running trailer
lights. If you want a fully charged battery once you arrive
at the site, you might want to take the plunge and do it.
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep
the battery on the vehicle I am towing behind my motorhome
charged, not a trailer battery but... Anyway, here it is
again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
This looks very promising. I'd like to do some off grid
camping and am not keen on going with solar, so it seems as if
this would be an option that could let me stop somewhere for
the night and start with a relatively fully charged battery.
Am I correct in thinking the power for charging with this
setup while towing would be drawn from the tow vehicle's
electrical system?
Yes.
Would I need to be concerned about overloading it?
Not likely.
Thanks for the feedback, George!
On 7/29/2024 7:24 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 14:48:39 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/25/2024 9:16 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 15:00:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep
the battery on the vehicle I am towing behind my
motorhome charged, not a trailer battery but... Anyway,
here it is again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
This looks very promising. I'd like to do some off grid
camping and am not keen on going with solar, so it seems as
if this would be an option that could let me stop somewhere
for the night and start with a relatively fully charged
battery.
Am I correct in thinking the power for charging with this
setup while towing would be drawn from the tow vehicle's
electrical system?
Yes.
Would I need to be concerned about overloading it?
Not likely.
Thanks for the feedback, George!
Good luck with it. Dealing with electrical issues can be
problematic at best.
Direct connect or via a DC/DC charger, what you get is more like a “trickle” charger would provide. It’s more for maintaining than charging.
Heavier wire would help. If you do a lot of off grid camping solar might be the way to go or a small portable generator. The generator may be your
least expensive option, especially if you are paying labor for any other option. Just like Ron Popeil says, “just set it and forget it”.
On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 10:38:40 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/29/2024 7:24 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jul 2024 14:48:39 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 7/25/2024 9:16 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 15:00:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
I thought I posted a link to one I use. I use it to keep
the battery on the vehicle I am towing behind my
motorhome charged, not a trailer battery but... Anyway,
here it is again.
https://rvibrake.com/collections/shop/products/towed-battery-charger-plus
This looks very promising. I'd like to do some off grid
camping and am not keen on going with solar, so it seems as
if this would be an option that could let me stop somewhere
for the night and start with a relatively fully charged
battery.
Am I correct in thinking the power for charging with this
setup while towing would be drawn from the tow vehicle's
electrical system?
Yes.
Would I need to be concerned about overloading it?
Not likely.
Thanks for the feedback, George!
Good luck with it. Dealing with electrical issues can be
problematic at best.
Okay, another dumb/ignorant question. From a bunch of reading on
the web, it seems to me (I could well be wrong!) that the 7-pin
connector is unlikely to provide enough current for a DC-DC
charger to fully charge the LiFePO4 trailer battery. A couple of
relevant discussions are here...
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1656714-dc-dc-charger-using-7-pin.html
https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/dc-to-dc-charger-vs-7-pin.231810/
So my impression is I would need a new, heavier gauge wire from
the tow vehicle battery running to some kind of connector
(Anderson plug?) at the back end. I'd also need to install the
DC-DC convertor (presumably near the trailer battery on the
trailer tongue) and wire it in as well--with its own connector
that would tie it to the new plug on the tow vehicle. Does that
all seem right?
I can probably muddle through on the trailer side of things, but
think I'm out of my league when it comes to messing with the
electrical system of the tow vehicle (2023 Acadia Denali with
trailering package). Worse yet, I'm not sure where to turn for
anyone to do such an install. Should that be a GMC dealer; for
example, so the warranty isn't voided? Other, better options?
Thanks for putting up with my rookie questions!
On 7/31/2024 10:10 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
Direct connect or via a DC/DC charger, what you get is more
like a “trickle” charger would provide. It’s more for
maintaining than charging. Heavier wire would help. If you do
a lot of off grid camping solar might be the way to go or a
small portable generator. The generator may be your least
expensive option, especially if you are paying labor for any
other option. Just like Ron Popeil says, “just set it and
forget it”.
For $300-400 you can get those smaller (~2,000-4,000 watts)
portable generators that are easy to handle, can be used for
other things too, and would charge up the batteries whenever
you needed it. The money you would spend having someone
setting all the stuff up with the heavier wire and plug-ins
could easily go over what one of those cost, and if your
batteries go down while you're camping you have to hook back up
to the truck again. Just hook a small charger up to it and
you're good. They're quiet and lost a long, long time on a tank
of fuel.
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 11:34:58 -0500,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 7/31/2024 10:10 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
Direct connect or via a DC/DC charger, what you get is more
like a “trickle” charger would provide. It’s more for
maintaining than charging. Heavier wire would help. If you do
a lot of off grid camping solar might be the way to go or a
small portable generator. The generator may be your least
expensive option, especially if you are paying labor for any
other option. Just like Ron Popeil says, “just set it and
forget it”.
For $300-400 you can get those smaller (~2,000-4,000 watts)
portable generators that are easy to handle, can be used for
other things too, and would charge up the batteries whenever
you needed it. The money you would spend having someone
setting all the stuff up with the heavier wire and plug-ins
could easily go over what one of those cost, and if your
batteries go down while you're camping you have to hook back up
to the truck again. Just hook a small charger up to it and
you're good. They're quiet and lost a long, long time on a tank
of fuel.
Thanks, both. What you say makes sense. Based on some of the
accounts I read, it seems the Acadia with suitable heavy gauge
wires should be able to bring the trailer battery back to full
charge during a day of towing, but I agree the install sounds like
a major hassle.
I like the idea of a small generator, but the ones I found (e.g.,
those recommended by Wirecutter) are closer to $1k in cost. They
had a pretty poor opinion of the cheaper units. In any case, even
the smaller units seem like a lot more weight and space than I
realy want (or can afford) and I'm not keen on having to carry
fuel (or the noise in operation).
Leaning more toward solar panels mounted on the trailer roof, it
sounds like something I could do myself and would be less prone to
theft than portable units. Not being optimally aimed woould be
offset to some extent by being able to generate power during the
day while towing.
I'll be mulling this all over, but more input is always welcome!
On 8/1/2024 7:57 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 11:34:58 -0500,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 7/31/2024 10:10 AM, George.Anthony wrote:
Direct connect or via a DC/DC charger, what you get is more
like a “trickle” charger would provide. It’s more for
maintaining than charging. Heavier wire would help. If you do
a lot of off grid camping solar might be the way to go or a
small portable generator. The generator may be your least
expensive option, especially if you are paying labor for any
other option. Just like Ron Popeil says, “just set it and
forget it”.
For $300-400 you can get those smaller (~2,000-4,000 watts)
portable generators that are easy to handle, can be used for
other things too, and would charge up the batteries whenever
you needed it. The money you would spend having someone
setting all the stuff up with the heavier wire and plug-ins
could easily go over what one of those cost, and if your
batteries go down while you're camping you have to hook back up
to the truck again. Just hook a small charger up to it and
you're good. They're quiet and lost a long, long time on a tank
of fuel.
Thanks, both. What you say makes sense. Based on some of the
accounts I read, it seems the Acadia with suitable heavy gauge
wires should be able to bring the trailer battery back to full
charge during a day of towing, but I agree the install sounds like
a major hassle.
I like the idea of a small generator, but the ones I found (e.g.,
those recommended by Wirecutter) are closer to $1k in cost. They
had a pretty poor opinion of the cheaper units. In any case, even
the smaller units seem like a lot more weight and space than I
realy want (or can afford) and I'm not keen on having to carry
fuel (or the noise in operation).
Leaning more toward solar panels mounted on the trailer roof, it
sounds like something I could do myself and would be less prone to
theft than portable units. Not being optimally aimed woould be
offset to some extent by being able to generate power during the
day while towing.
I'll be mulling this all over, but more input is always welcome!
https://www.harborfreight.com/1400-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-with-co-secure-technology-59186.html
On 8/1/2024 8:47 PM, George Anthony wrote:wgu_BQlTAPr_1kW8DVxoiI5l17AYXJi75PTkhDU4-DFeCWrRcFZQ4XiIeGzKQrzcpjpGLIO1s3qOTwkEuz_lHubSc3aeD8_t9uNzknY.EsCnqxG37pGh_u-ONawogPCJy0mizztd_2sdyzomeg0&dib_tag=se>
On 8/1/2024 7:57 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 11:34:58 -0500,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
For $300-400 you can get those smaller (~2,000-4,000 watts)
portable generators that are easy to handle, can be used for
other things too, and would charge up the batteries whenever
you needed it. The money you would spend having someone
setting all the stuff up with the heavier wire and plug-ins
could easily go over what one of those cost, and if your
batteries go down while you're camping you have to hook back up
to the truck again. Just hook a small charger up to it and
you're good. They're quiet and lost a long, long time on a tank
of fuel.
Thanks, both. What you say makes sense. Based on some of
the accounts I read, it seems the Acadia with suitable heavy
gauge wires should be able to bring the trailer battery back
to full charge during a day of towing, but I agree the
install sounds like a major hassle.
I like the idea of a small generator, but the ones I found
(e.g., those recommended by Wirecutter) are closer to $1k in
cost. They had a pretty poor opinion of the cheaper units.
In any case, even the smaller units seem like a lot more
weight and space than I realy want (or can afford) and I'm
not keen on having to carry fuel (or the noise in operation).
Leaning more toward solar panels mounted on the trailer roof,
it sounds like something I could do myself and would be less
prone to theft than portable units. Not being optimally
aimed woould be offset to some extent by being able to
generate power during the day while towing.
I'll be mulling this all over, but more input is always
welcome!
https://www.harborfreight.com/1400-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-with-co-secure-technology-59186.html
Not bad. I used these type when working on interstate highway
jobs and they powered the light stations of the flaggers. Ran
a long time on a tank of fuel.
I would also suggest doing a search on amazon keywords: small
generator inverter. You get hits like these:
$379 for 2500 Watts
<https://www.amazon.com/PowerSmart-PS5020Super-Portable-Generator-Compliant/dp/B089FDFDH5/ref=sr_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wa7Za-KHnGgWpg7GeIn1-ArCnkkg8s7cTp8U8TQHQO3DC2WJEeHDWRjU95AHyo3evHFM6UOZqo0leGgx4zMbz0NMqB7xltZKKsseaXPU5s1y2bQ42X6KeuOppS8Grma5tvV-
To be honest, I like this better. #379 for 4400 Wattswgu_BQlTAPr_1kW8DVxoiI5l17AYXJi75PTkhDU4-DFeCWrRcFZQ4XiIeGzKQrzcpjpGLIO1s3qOTwkEuz_lHubSc3aeD8_t9uNzknY.EsCnqxG37pGh_u-ONawogPCJy0mizztd_2sdyzomeg0&dib_tag=se>
<https://www.amazon.com/PowerSmart-Generator-Inverter-Technology-Compliant/dp/B08W44DTYG/ref=sr_1_11?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wa7Za-KHnGgWpg7GeIn1-ArCnkkg8s7cTp8U8TQHQO3DC2WJEeHDWRjU95AHyo3evHFM6UOZqo0leGgx4zMbz0NMqB7xltZKKsseaXPU5s1y2bQ42X6KeuOppS8Grma5tvV-
You should also keep in mind you are not going to be running it
all the time. With Solar panels alone, you still have all the
same problems with running out of power. I don't know what you
all have to power with the batteries and need to eventually
charge back up. Do you have a fridge needing power?
In my View, I can't run the AC at all on battery power, and
they say the fridge won't last long on battery power. It is a
large fridge, and I do have 2 good sized solar panels on the
roof, but they have a max of 750 watts if I added more
panels(which I prolly won't do). I'll have to check it out
soon to see how it performs. Fortunately I do have a diesel
generator if needed.
All good thoughts, and reminds me I haven't said much about my
use case. We tow a Lance 1475 with the Acadia Denali, and my
interest is being able to camp off the grid (e.g., National
Forests) so we can have some freedom in where we go (i.e., not
be bound by campground reservations) and to not be packed in
with lots of other campers.
As far as electrical usage, the fridge is fair size for a small
trailer but can run on propane. The AC won't run at all on 12
V, so that leaves microwave, electric kettle (for Aeropress
coffee), furnace fan, lights, and charging of phones and
laptops. We have a newish 100Ah LiFEPO4 battery, and my guess
is it might not last a full day. Hence the need for some
additional power source. I need to try it out without shore
power, so plan to try next camping trip. Probably at a place
with shore power, but just not connected until/if needed.
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:02:29 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
All good thoughts, and reminds me I haven't said much about my
use case. We tow a Lance 1475 with the Acadia Denali, and my
interest is being able to camp off the grid (e.g., National
Forests) so we can have some freedom in where we go (i.e., not
be bound by campground reservations) and to not be packed in
with lots of other campers.
As far as electrical usage, the fridge is fair size for a small
trailer but can run on propane. The AC won't run at all on 12
V, so that leaves microwave, electric kettle (for Aeropress
coffee), furnace fan, lights, and charging of phones and
laptops. We have a newish 100Ah LiFEPO4 battery, and my guess
is it might not last a full day. Hence the need for some
additional power source. I need to try it out without shore
power, so plan to try next camping trip. Probably at a place
with shore power, but just not connected until/if needed.
Okay, I'm a dumbass. I just realized that unlike other options
(the trailer battery, a DC-Dc convertor, solar), a generator will
let me run 120 V things. Duh.
On 8/2/2024 10:59 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:02:29 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
All good thoughts, and reminds me I haven't said much about my
use case. We tow a Lance 1475 with the Acadia Denali, and my
interest is being able to camp off the grid (e.g., National
Forests) so we can have some freedom in where we go (i.e., not
be bound by campground reservations) and to not be packed in
with lots of other campers.
As far as electrical usage, the fridge is fair size for a small
trailer but can run on propane. The AC won't run at all on 12
V, so that leaves microwave, electric kettle (for Aeropress
coffee), furnace fan, lights, and charging of phones and
laptops. We have a newish 100Ah LiFEPO4 battery, and my guess
is it might not last a full day. Hence the need for some
additional power source. I need to try it out without shore
power, so plan to try next camping trip. Probably at a place
with shore power, but just not connected until/if needed.
Okay, I'm a dumbass. I just realized that unlike other options
(the trailer battery, a DC-Dc convertor, solar), a generator will
let me run 120 V things. Duh.
Yeah, it will be almost like on shore power unless you think you will
be able to run your AC and/or microwave ... unless you go with a
larger, i.e., costlier, generator. For pretty much everything else,
these less expensive models should serve your needs. You'll just have
to manually regulate your demand by turning off and on higher demand
loads. Toaster, hair dryer, coffee pot, maybe water heater.
George Anthony wrote:
On 8/2/2024 10:59 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:02:29 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
All good thoughts, and reminds me I haven't said much about my
use case. We tow a Lance 1475 with the Acadia Denali, and my
interest is being able to camp off the grid (e.g., National
Forests) so we can have some freedom in where we go (i.e., not
be bound by campground reservations) and to not be packed in
with lots of other campers.
Flatspotting.
As far as electrical usage, the fridge is fair size for a small
trailer but can run on propane. The AC won't run at all on 12
V, so that leaves microwave, electric kettle (for Aeropress
coffee), furnace fan, lights, and charging of phones and
laptops. We have a newish 100Ah LiFEPO4 battery, and my guess
is it might not last a full day. Hence the need for some
additional power source. I need to try it out without shore
power, so plan to try next camping trip. Probably at a place
with shore power, but just not connected until/if needed.
Okay, I'm a dumbass. I just realized that unlike other options
(the trailer battery, a DC-Dc convertor, solar), a generator will
let me run 120 V things. Duh.
Yeah, it will be almost like on shore power unless you think
you will be able to run your AC and/or microwave ... unless
you go with a larger, i.e., costlier, generator. For pretty
much everything else, these less expensive models should serve
your needs. You'll just have to manually regulate your demand
by turning off and on higher demand loads. Toaster, hair
dryer, coffee pot, maybe water heater.
I got my unasked question answered about the fridge, but don't
most TT water heaters also run on gas?
Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got
along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a microwave,
electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
George Anthony wrote:
On 8/2/2024 10:59 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:02:29 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
All good thoughts, and reminds me I haven't said much about my
use case. We tow a Lance 1475 with the Acadia Denali, and my
interest is being able to camp off the grid (e.g., National
Forests) so we can have some freedom in where we go (i.e., not
be bound by campground reservations) and to not be packed in
with lots of other campers.
Flatspotting.
As far as electrical usage, the fridge is fair size for a small
trailer but can run on propane. The AC won't run at all on 12
V, so that leaves microwave, electric kettle (for Aeropress
coffee), furnace fan, lights, and charging of phones and
laptops. We have a newish 100Ah LiFEPO4 battery, and my guess
is it might not last a full day. Hence the need for some
additional power source. I need to try it out without shore
power, so plan to try next camping trip. Probably at a place
with shore power, but just not connected until/if needed.
Okay, I'm a dumbass. I just realized that unlike other options
(the trailer battery, a DC-Dc convertor, solar), a generator will
let me run 120 V things. Duh.
Yeah, it will be almost like on shore power unless you think
you will be able to run your AC and/or microwave ... unless
you go with a larger, i.e., costlier, generator. For pretty
much everything else, these less expensive models should serve
your needs. You'll just have to manually regulate your demand
by turning off and on higher demand loads. Toaster, hair
dryer, coffee pot, maybe water heater.
Good info, thanks. The microwave is listed as 900 watts, so it
should run okay on any of these smaller generators. The AC is a
Coleman-Mach 4800 series. I couldn't find a lot of detail, but it
seems as if it may have anywhere from 9 amp draw (14 at start) up
to 15 (with 20-25 at start). So if it's the lower values
something like the Westinghouse iGen 2550DFc (or even a little
lower power) ought to run it?
https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-iGen2550DFc/dp/B0CB99QS6S?th=1
From some forums, it seems I need to look under the cover on the
top of the unit for a plate with all the electrical details.
Assuming that's true, it should make clear whether it's possible.
I got my unasked question answered about the fridge, but don't
most TT water heaters also run on gas?
The unit has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater, and it
can run on propane, electtic, or a mix of both.
Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got
along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a microwave,
electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
The wife and I are spoiled, what can I say. :)
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
George Anthony wrote:
On 8/2/2024 10:59 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 13:02:29 -0000 (UTC),
  Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
 All good thoughts, and reminds me I haven't said much about my
 use case. We tow a Lance 1475 with the Acadia Denali, and my >>>>>  interest is being able to camp off the grid (e.g., National
 Forests) so we can have some freedom in where we go (i.e., not
 be bound by campground reservations) and to not be packed in
 with lots of other campers.
Flatspotting.
 As far as electrical usage, the fridge is fair size for a small >>>>>  trailer but can run on propane. The AC won't run at all on 12 >>>>>  V, so that leaves microwave, electric kettle (for Aeropress
 coffee), furnace fan, lights, and charging of phones and
 laptops. We have a newish 100Ah LiFEPO4 battery, and my guess >>>>>  is it might not last a full day. Hence the need for some
 additional power source. I need to try it out without shore >>>>>  power, so plan to try next camping trip. Probably at a place >>>>>  with shore power, but just not connected until/if needed.
Okay, I'm a dumbass. I just realized that unlike other options
(the trailer battery, a DC-Dc convertor, solar), a generator will
let me run 120 V things. Duh.
Yeah, it will be almost like on shore power unless you think
you will be able to run your AC and/or microwave ... unless
you go with a larger, i.e., costlier, generator. For pretty
much everything else, these less expensive models should serve
your needs. You'll just have to manually regulate your demand
by turning off and on higher demand loads. Toaster, hair
dryer, coffee pot, maybe water heater.
Good info, thanks. The microwave is listed as 900 watts, so it
should run okay on any of these smaller generators. The AC is a
Coleman-Mach 4800 series. I couldn't find a lot of detail, but it
seems as if it may have anywhere from 9 amp draw (14 at start) up
to 15 (with 20-25 at start). So if it's the lower values
something like the Westinghouse iGen 2550DFc (or even a little
lower power) ought to run it?
https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-iGen2550DFc/dp/B0CB99QS6S?th=1
From some forums, it seems I need to look under the cover on the
top of the unit for a plate with all the electrical details.
Assuming that's true, it should make clear whether it's possible.
I got my unasked question answered about the fridge, but don't
most TT water heaters also run on gas?
The unit has a Truma Combi Eco Plus furnace/water heater, and it
can run on propane, electtic, or a mix of both.
Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got
along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a microwave,
electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
The wife and I are spoiled, what can I say. :)
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
On 8/2/2024 4:52 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
George Anthony wrote:
Yeah, it will be almost like on shore power unless you think
you will be able to run your AC and/or microwave ... unless
you go with a larger, i.e., costlier, generator. For pretty
much everything else, these less expensive models should
serve your needs. You'll just have to manually regulate your
demand by turning off and on higher demand loads. Toaster,
hair dryer, coffee pot, maybe water heater.
Good info, thanks. The microwave is listed as 900 watts, so
it should run okay on any of these smaller generators. The AC
is a Coleman-Mach 4800 series. I couldn't find a lot of
detail, but it seems as if it may have anywhere from 9 amp
draw (14 at start) up to 15 (with 20-25 at start). So if it's
the lower values something like the Westinghouse iGen 2550DFc
(or even a little lower power) ought to run it?
https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-Outdoor-Power-Equipment-iGen2550DFc/dp/B0CB99QS6S?th=1
Yeah, that's a nice little unit. They say up to 12 hours run
time with a 30 Amp plug in. You need air conditioning one
night, this will give it to you! Hell, you can probably even
charge your batteries on one of the 120V plugs at the same
time.
BTW, my AC unit was drawing around 10 to 11 amps yesterday when
I checked it out. I have the Coleman Mach 45000 series. It
has been hot as hell around here and it really does a great job
of cooling.
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got
along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a microwave,
electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
The wife and I are spoiled, what can I say. :)
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
It charged through the 7-pin when driving, and with the
built-in charger when we had shore power. I don't remember
having any battery problems when flatspotting, but we rarely
stayed in one place longer than 2 days/nights. Plus, we weren't
spoiled back then, and all we used when parked were 1 - maybe 2
- lights and the water pump.
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:13:42 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got
along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a microwave,
electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
The wife and I are spoiled, what can I say. :)
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
It charged through the 7-pin when driving, and with the
built-in charger when we had shore power. I don't remember
having any battery problems when flatspotting, but we rarely
stayed in one place longer than 2 days/nights. Plus, we weren't
spoiled back then, and all we used when parked were 1 - maybe 2
- lights and the water pump.
Okay, charging from the 7-pin is what I'd expect, but I haven't
seen any evidence of that happening since I put in the new LiFEPO4
battery. Admittedly, it's just been one trip of ~5 days.
I do wonder if the battery has to reach some lower SOC than I've
seen (85%?) for charging from the 7-pin to kick in. Operation of
the Dometic battery monitor is still largely a mystery to me...
https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-BMK-25-Battery-Monitor/dp/B09NRXD9G8
Is it possible the 7-pin will actually charge the battery if it
gets to a lower SOC? If yes, do the GP-BMK-25 settings make a
difference in this level? I can't tell from the "manual" and mre
broadly havn't been able to get a good unserstanding of how it
works.
Maybe another relevant point is that the new battery shows its
state in good detail via a nifty bluetooth linked app; the info
from the battery makes sense, but diverges at times from what the
Dometic monitor shows (especially as it relates to SOC).
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:13:42 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got
along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a microwave, >>>>> electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
The wife and I are spoiled, what can I say. :)
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
It charged through the 7-pin when driving, and with the
built-in charger when we had shore power. I don't remember
having any battery problems when flatspotting, but we rarely
stayed in one place longer than 2 days/nights. Plus, we weren't
spoiled back then, and all we used when parked were 1 - maybe 2
- lights and the water pump.
Okay, charging from the 7-pin is what I'd expect, but I haven't
seen any evidence of that happening since I put in the new LiFEPO4
battery. Admittedly, it's just been one trip of ~5 days.
I do wonder if the battery has to reach some lower SOC than I've
seen (85%?) for charging from the 7-pin to kick in. Operation of
the Dometic battery monitor is still largely a mystery to me...
https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-BMK-25-Battery-Monitor/dp/B09NRXD9G8
Is it possible the 7-pin will actually charge the battery if it
gets to a lower SOC? If yes, do the GP-BMK-25 settings make a
difference in this level? I can't tell from the "manual" and mre
broadly havn't been able to get a good unserstanding of how it
works.
Maybe another relevant point is that the new battery shows its
state in good detail via a nifty bluetooth linked app; the info
from the battery makes sense, but diverges at times from what the
Dometic monitor shows (especially as it relates to SOC).
I don't know. I didn't have a battery monitor, and the battery was a
standard old deep-cycle battery. It just charged when I drove or was
plugged into shore power.
On 8/3/2024 1:00 PM, bfh wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:13:42 -0400,
  bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
 Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 14:07:23 -0400,
   bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
  Back in a previous life, we did a lot of flatspotting and got >>>>>>   along fine without a generator, but we didn't have a
microwave,
  electric coffee pot, or a toaster.
The wife and I are spoiled, what can I say.   :)
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
 It charged through the 7-pin when driving, and with the
 built-in charger when we had shore power. I don't remember
 having any battery problems when flatspotting, but we rarely
 stayed in one place longer than 2 days/nights. Plus, we weren't
 spoiled back then, and all we used when parked were 1 - maybe 2
 - lights and the water pump.
Okay, charging from the 7-pin is what I'd expect, but I haven't
seen any evidence of that happening since I put in the new LiFEPO4
battery. Admittedly, it's just been one trip of ~5 days.
I do wonder if the battery has to reach some lower SOC than I've
seen (85%?) for charging from the 7-pin to kick in. Operation of
the Dometic battery monitor is still largely a mystery to me...
https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-BMK-25-Battery-Monitor/dp/B09NRXD9G8 >>>
Is it possible the 7-pin will actually charge the battery if it
gets to a lower SOC? If yes, do the GP-BMK-25 settings make a
difference in this level? I can't tell from the "manual" and mre
broadly havn't been able to get a good unserstanding of how it
works.
I really don't think it will charge from the 7-pin connection if the
battery is low. At least not with the standard size wire you now have.
By the way, I may have missed it but did you ever verify if you have
voltage coming through the 7-pin connection at the positive battery
cable on the trailer battery?
Maybe another relevant point is that the new battery shows its
state in good detail via a nifty bluetooth linked app; the info
from the battery makes sense, but diverges at times from what the
Dometic monitor shows (especially as it relates to SOC).
I don't know. I didn't have a battery monitor, and the battery was a
standard old deep-cycle battery. It just charged when I drove or was
plugged into shore power.
LiFePo batteries are a different breed. My opinion, FWIW, is to go
with a small generator.
I don't know. I didn't have a battery monitor, and the battery was a
standard old deep-cycle battery. It just charged when I drove or was
plugged into shore power.
LiFePo batteries are a different breed. My opinion, FWIW, is to go with
a small generator.
On 8/3/2024 1:00 PM, bfh wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:13:42 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
It charged through the 7-pin when driving, and with the
built-in charger when we had shore power. I don't remember
having any battery problems when flatspotting, but we rarely
stayed in one place longer than 2 days/nights. Plus, we weren't
spoiled back then, and all we used when parked were 1 - maybe 2
- lights and the water pump.
Okay, charging from the 7-pin is what I'd expect, but I
haven't seen any evidence of that happening since I put in
the new LiFEPO4 battery. Admittedly, it's just been one trip
of ~5 days.
I do wonder if the battery has to reach some lower SOC than
I've seen (85%?) for charging from the 7-pin to kick in.
Operation of the Dometic battery monitor is still largely a
mystery to me...
https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-BMK-25-Battery-Monitor/dp/B09NRXD9G8
Is it possible the 7-pin will actually charge the battery if
it gets to a lower SOC? If yes, do the GP-BMK-25 settings
make a difference in this level? I can't tell from the
"manual" and mre broadly havn't been able to get a good
unserstanding of how it works.
I really don't think it will charge from the 7-pin connection
if the battery is low. At least not with the standard size wire
you now have. By the way, I may have missed it but did you ever
verify if you have voltage coming through the 7-pin connection
at the positive battery cable on the trailer battery?
On 8/3/2024 3:38 PM, George Anthony wrote:
I don't know. I didn't have a battery monitor, and the
battery was a standard old deep-cycle battery. It just
charged when I drove or was plugged into shore power.
LiFePo batteries are a different breed. My opinion, FWIW, is
to go with a small generator.
If I was pulling one, it would be a must have. I would
probably rig up some kind of setup so that I could charge
trailer batteries with the unit while I'm traveling for the
reason that more and more of these wilderness campgrounds do
not want you running a generator at night, and in some cases,
at all.
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:34:01 -0500,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 8/3/2024 3:38 PM, George Anthony wrote:
I don't know. I didn't have a battery monitor, and the
battery was a standard old deep-cycle battery. It just
charged when I drove or was plugged into shore power.
LiFePo batteries are a different breed. My opinion, FWIW, is
to go with a small generator.
Yeah, I'm leaning that way. Seems it will be necessary if we want
to flatspot and run our electronics (e.g., charging laptops).
If I was pulling one, it would be a must have. I would
probably rig up some kind of setup so that I could charge
trailer batteries with the unit while I'm traveling for the
reason that more and more of these wilderness campgrounds do
not want you running a generator at night, and in some cases,
at all.
Okay, the possible restriction in wilderness is a really good
point. I suppose generators may be prohibited in areas with
wildfire risk.
But how would one go about safely rigging a portable generator to
run while towing? Seems like a real hazard.
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 15:38:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
On 8/3/2024 1:00 PM, bfh wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2024 23:13:42 -0400,
bfh <redydog@rye.net> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
But how did you charge the trailer battery?
It charged through the 7-pin when driving, and with the
built-in charger when we had shore power. I don't remember
having any battery problems when flatspotting, but we rarely
stayed in one place longer than 2 days/nights. Plus, we weren't
spoiled back then, and all we used when parked were 1 - maybe 2
- lights and the water pump.
Okay, charging from the 7-pin is what I'd expect, but I
haven't seen any evidence of that happening since I put in
the new LiFEPO4 battery. Admittedly, it's just been one trip
of ~5 days.
I do wonder if the battery has to reach some lower SOC than
I've seen (85%?) for charging from the 7-pin to kick in.
Operation of the Dometic battery monitor is still largely a
mystery to me...
https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-GP-BMK-25-Battery-Monitor/dp/B09NRXD9G8 >>>>
Is it possible the 7-pin will actually charge the battery if
it gets to a lower SOC? If yes, do the GP-BMK-25 settings
make a difference in this level? I can't tell from the
"manual" and mre broadly havn't been able to get a good
unserstanding of how it works.
I really don't think it will charge from the 7-pin connection
if the battery is low. At least not with the standard size wire
you now have. By the way, I may have missed it but did you ever
verify if you have voltage coming through the 7-pin connection
at the positive battery cable on the trailer battery?
Yes, I've checked the 1 and 4 pins on the 7-pin receptacle with a
multimeter, and there is 12 V there--even when the car is shut
off. I'm also able to run 12 V equipment (e.g., tongue jack,
lights, exhaust fans) when the trailer (without any battery) is
connected to the 7-pin on the tow vehicle.
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that when the battery
and 7-pin are both connected, the battery still reports it's
discharging.
discharging just seems unexpected--like something in the trailer
(e.g., the PD4000 power control enter) is not supplying anything
to the battery. FWIW, it does charge when the trailer is hooked
to shore power.
If I was pulling one, it would be a must have. I would
probably rig up some kind of setup so that I could charge
trailer batteries with the unit while I'm traveling for the
reason that more and more of these wilderness campgrounds do
not want you running a generator at night, and in some cases,
at all.
Okay, the possible restriction in wilderness is a really good
point. I suppose generators may be prohibited in areas with
wildfire risk.
But how would one go about safely rigging a portable generator to
run while towing? Seems like a real hazard.
On 8/4/2024 3:10 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 15:38:30 -0500,
George Anthony <ganthony@gmail.org> wrote:
I really don't think it will charge from the 7-pin
connection if the battery is low. At least not with the
standard size wire you now have. By the way, I may have
missed it but did you ever verify if you have voltage
coming through the 7-pin connection at the positive battery
cable on the trailer battery?
Yes, I've checked the 1 and 4 pins on the 7-pin receptacle
with a multimeter, and there is 12 V there--even when the car
is shut off. I'm also able to run 12 V equipment (e.g.,
tongue jack, lights, exhaust fans) when the trailer (without
any battery) is connected to the 7-pin on the tow vehicle.
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that when the
battery and 7-pin are both connected, the battery still
reports it's discharging.
Is this with the engine running or key off, engine off? If the
engine is off it could be back feeding from the trailer
battery. I'm just guessing here, though.
On 8/4/2024 3:14 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
If I was pulling one, it would be a must have. I would
probably rig up some kind of setup so that I could charge
trailer batteries with the unit while I'm traveling for the
reason that more and more of these wilderness campgrounds
do not want you running a generator at night, and in some
cases, at all.
Okay, the possible restriction in wilderness is a really good
point. I suppose generators may be prohibited in areas with
wildfire risk.
I bet people do it all the time. Just pick a good time when
nobody is around, keep an eye on it, and get some juice back.
But how would one go about safely rigging a portable generator
to run while towing? Seems like a real hazard.
I got one of those plastic containers, like the old milk box
crates <https://www.milkcratesdirect.com/>
and it's like double wide. I'd attach it to the front frame
area with cable ties and then cable tie some wire to the
plug-in and your charger.
Then just wire the thing so it stays in the crate and away
you go.
They run pretty good. My flaggers used to wheel them down the
road on hand carts with a pole attached and the lights up in
the air to keep them visible. In my state it was no longer
acceptable to have them standing out there, even with the
reflective clothing on, unless they were lit up. Bosses didn't
know how we were gonna deal with that new rule, and this was
the option I came up with. I'd just swing by every few hours
and make sure they didn't need fuel. I'd stop by the good
looking ones more often. ;-)
On 8/4/2024 3:14 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Sun, 4 Aug 2024 11:34:01 -0500,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 8/3/2024 3:38 PM, George Anthony wrote:
I don't know. I didn't have a battery monitor, and the
battery was a standard old deep-cycle battery. It just
charged when I drove or was plugged into shore power.
LiFePo batteries are a different breed. My opinion, FWIW, is
to go with a small generator.
Yeah, I'm leaning that way. Seems it will be necessary if we
want to flatspot and run our electronics (e.g., charging
laptops).
If you do go the generator route, make sure you get one with
pure sine wave (clean power) output. That will protect your
electronics.
If I was pulling one, it would be a must have. I would
probably rig up some kind of setup so that I could charge
trailer batteries with the unit while I'm traveling for the
reason that more and more of these wilderness campgrounds
do not want you running a generator at night, and in some
cases, at all.
Okay, the possible restriction in wilderness is a really good
point. I suppose generators may be prohibited in areas with
wildfire risk.
But how would one go about safely rigging a portable generator
to run while towing? Seems like a real hazard.
Secure it to the trailer bumper and run your power cord to the
generator. Just a matter of making sure the cord is tied down
securely. As to running at night, if you are somewhere like a
BLM (not sure I should saying that) campground you will
probably be far enough away from other campers. These new
inverter type generators are pretty quiet anyway.
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