• Kodak film prices may rise 40%

    From RichA@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 11 09:56:37 2023
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Jan 11 12:58:06 2023
    In article <2ddbb1ba-248e-4f57-b66b-3f9d36053ce1n@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:

    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film,

    it isn't.

    they go and sabotage it by
    pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    basic economic theory at work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Jan 11 14:47:09 2023
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/

    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Alan Browne on Wed Jan 11 13:51:23 2023
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 14:47:16 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/
    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    Make less profit until the cost structure stabilized. Rather than threaten sales by just taking the money in an attempt to keep margins as high as possible. Cause? Short-term strategies that impact long-term prospects. What do people do when costs
    rise? They look for alternatives or do without the product, if feasible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Brooks@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Jan 11 23:20:26 2023
    On 11/01/2023 21:51, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 14:47:16 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/
    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    Make less profit until the cost structure stabilized. Rather than threaten sales by just taking the money in an attempt to keep margins as high as possible. Cause? Short-term strategies that impact long-term prospects. What do people do when costs
    rise? They look for alternatives or do without the product, if feasible.

    There are many people who will pay for a quality product, regardless of
    the price.
    --
    Kind regards,
    David

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From geoff@21:1/5 to RichA on Thu Jan 12 13:30:22 2023
    On 12/01/2023 10:51 am, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 14:47:16 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/
    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    Make less profit until the cost structure stabilized. Rather than threaten sales by just taking the money in an attempt to keep margins as high as possible.

    Keep margins as high as possible, or maintain marginal margins ?

    geoff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Jan 11 19:34:19 2023
    On 2023-01-11 16:51, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 14:47:16 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/
    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    Make less profit until the cost structure stabilized. Rather than threaten sales by just taking the money in an attempt to keep margins as high as possible. Cause? Short-term strategies that impact long-term prospects. What do people do when costs
    rise? They look for alternatives or do without the product, if feasible.


    Once prices have gone up, they don't necessarily settle - other than
    volatile commodities.

    Which is not Kodak's case (I doubt raw material input is a large part of
    the overall product cost. I'd surmise further that they also have very
    little buying power for source material).

    And since it's a dwindling market overall (over time), they're not about
    to invest in cost reductions in production (capital investments that
    would reduce labour and operating costs).

    So the right move may indeed be to milk it until it's time to send it to
    the glue factory.

    Business, rightly or wrongly, is there to serve the business first, the shareholders second and the customer last.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to Alan Browne on Wed Feb 8 20:07:41 2023
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 19:34:26 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 16:51, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 14:47:16 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/
    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    Make less profit until the cost structure stabilized. Rather than threaten sales by just taking the money in an attempt to keep margins as high as possible. Cause? Short-term strategies that impact long-term prospects. What do people do when costs
    rise? They look for alternatives or do without the product, if feasible.

    Once prices have gone up, they don't necessarily settle - other than volatile commodities.

    Which is not Kodak's case (I doubt raw material input is a large part of
    the overall product cost. I'd surmise further that they also have very little buying power for source material).

    And since it's a dwindling market overall (over time), they're not about
    to invest in cost reductions in production (capital investments that
    would reduce labour and operating costs).

    So the right move may indeed be to milk it until it's time to send it to
    the glue factory.

    Business, rightly or wrongly, is there to serve the business first, the shareholders second and the customer last.
    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/30/film-photography-has-made-a-comeback-can-manufacturers-keep-up-with-demand/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Feb 8 20:14:19 2023
    On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 23:07:46 UTC-5, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 19:34:26 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 16:51, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 14:47:16 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:
    On 2023-01-11 12:56, RichA wrote:
    Talk about killing the Golden Goose. Just when the market is apparently on the rise with flightly millenial shooters of film, they go and sabotage it by pushing the price of a roll to what, $15?

    https://petapixel.com/2023/01/11/kodak-poised-to-raise-the-price-of-film-by-up-to-40/
    Capital costs sunk.
    Material costs up.
    Labour costs up.
    Supplier costs up.
    Operating costs up.
    Volumes down.

    What would a competent businessman do?

    Make less profit until the cost structure stabilized. Rather than threaten sales by just taking the money in an attempt to keep margins as high as possible. Cause? Short-term strategies that impact long-term prospects. What do people do when costs
    rise? They look for alternatives or do without the product, if feasible.

    Once prices have gone up, they don't necessarily settle - other than volatile commodities.

    Which is not Kodak's case (I doubt raw material input is a large part of the overall product cost. I'd surmise further that they also have very little buying power for source material).

    And since it's a dwindling market overall (over time), they're not about to invest in cost reductions in production (capital investments that
    would reduce labour and operating costs).

    So the right move may indeed be to milk it until it's time to send it to the glue factory.

    Business, rightly or wrongly, is there to serve the business first, the shareholders second and the customer last.
    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6 committee
    https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/30/film-photography-has-made-a-comeback-can-manufacturers-keep-up-with-demand/

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby. I saw a fine condition Nikkormat EL and a 50mm f/1.4 lens going for $55 the other day. There are MILLIIONS of used cameras out there. Film isn't digital, you don't machine-gun it. A 36 exposure roll
    and a thinking shooter can do a lot and the total cost of it development and basic (4x6) printing is about $30.00.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to RichA on Wed Feb 8 23:23:27 2023
    In article <f4ebbe2d-919d-47b0-8ccd-37dad686bdc1n@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.

    yes it is.

    I saw a fine condition
    Nikkormat EL and a 50mm f/1.4 lens going for $55 the other day. There are MILLIIONS of used cameras out there. Film isn't digital, you don't machine-gun it.

    nothing about digital requires 'machine-gunning' it, which could also
    be done with film:
    <https://i.redd.it/0buk0u3grpa81.jpg> <http://www.nicovandijk.net/nikonFback1.jpg>

    but for those who lack discipline, get a very small memory card that
    holds 20-30 photos.

    A 36 exposure roll and a thinking shooter can do a lot and the total cost
    of it development and basic (4x6) printing is about $30.00.

    which quickly adds up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to nospam on Thu Feb 9 05:19:33 2023
    On Thursday, 9 February 2023 at 04:23:37 UTC, nospam wrote:
    In article <f4ebbe2d-919d-47b0...@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.
    yes it is.

    Most hobbies can range from cheap to expensive .


    I saw a fine condition
    Nikkormat EL and a 50mm f/1.4 lens going for $55 the other day. There are MILLIIONS of used cameras out there. Film isn't digital, you don't machine-gun it.

    The equipment for taking pictures using film is pretty cheap because few want it
    and there's loads avaible as you say.


    nothing about digital requires 'machine-gunning' it, which could also
    be done with film:
    <https://i.redd.it/0buk0u3grpa81.jpg> <http://www.nicovandijk.net/nikonFback1.jpg>

    yeah I had a 5 FPS drive for my canon which meant could get through a whole roll of 36 exposures
    in about 8 seconds .



    but for those who lack discipline, get a very small memory card that
    holds 20-30 photos.
    A 36 exposure roll and a thinking shooter can do a lot and the total cost of it development and basic (4x6) printing is about $30.00.
    which quickly adds up.

    So using the above example of 36 pictures for $30 so roughly $1 per picture
    or 5 FPS is $5 per second or $300 per miniute which I'd say is expenive at $18,000 per hour.

    which is probbaly why there are so many more photos taken with digital
    than would be if film was used.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichA@21:1/5 to nospam on Thu Feb 9 22:58:56 2023
    On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 23:23:37 UTC-5, nospam wrote:
    In article <f4ebbe2d-919d-47b0...@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.
    yes it is.

    I've spent over $100k on telescope stuff and a friend's wife spent almost $1M on horses. Photography is NOT expensive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Feb 10 07:13:34 2023
    In article <9fb9d30f-e307-4ba6-bbc0-d435b3402b51n@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.
    yes it is.

    I've spent over $100k on telescope stuff and a friend's wife spent almost $1M on horses.

    so what?

    Photography is NOT expensive.

    yes it is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Feb 10 14:16:03 2023
    On 2023-02-10 07:58, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 23:23:37 UTC-5, nospam wrote:
    In article <f4ebbe2d-919d-47b0...@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.
    yes it is.

    I've spent over $100k on telescope stuff and a friend's wife spent almost $1M on horses. Photography is NOT expensive.

    Yes it is.

    If you have ample funds, then it is cheap for you. At ~1€ per picture I
    can not afford to do a hundred photos in a day, as I can with digital. I
    have to go back to my old skills, where I could spend one or two rolls
    per year, and only take a shot when it is worth it.

    Sure, there are more expensive hobbies.


    No, thanks, I'll stay with digital.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Feb 10 08:26:02 2023
    On 2023-02-08 23:14, RichA wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby. I saw a fine condition Nikkormat EL and a 50mm f/1.4 lens going for $55 the other day. There are MILLIIONS of used cameras out there. Film isn't digital, you don't machine-gun it. A 36 exposure roll
    and a thinking shooter can do a lot and the total cost of it development and basic (4x6) printing is about $30.00.

    Luckily I sold my Hasselblad and some other film gear at a peak during
    the pandemic in the spring of 2021. Prices had ballooned something
    nuts. Sold a scanner for above what I had paid for it new.

    See my other post for the costs of good quality film.

    Film will be available as long as makers make money - but they're not
    going to invest to grow the market.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Whisky-dave@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Feb 10 05:32:44 2023
    On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 06:59:00 UTC, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 23:23:37 UTC-5, nospam wrote:
    In article <f4ebbe2d-919d-47b0...@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.
    yes it is.
    I've spent over $100k on telescope stuff and a friend's wife spent almost $1M on horses. Photography is NOT expensive.

    Sex hasn't cost me much, but Trump spent how much on keeping Stormy daniels quiet ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to RichA on Fri Feb 10 08:21:13 2023
    On 2023-02-08 23:07, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 11 January 2023 at 19:34:26 UTC-5, Alan Browne wrote:

    And since it's a dwindling market overall (over time), they're not about
    to invest in cost reductions in production (capital investments that
    would reduce labour and operating costs).

    So the right move may indeed be to milk it until it's time to send it to
    the glue factory.

    Business, rightly or wrongly, is there to serve the business first, the
    shareholders second and the customer last.

    https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/30/film-photography-has-made-a-comeback-can-manufacturers-keep-up-with-demand/

    Yep - those high prices will surely create demand destruction. Kodak is
    not going long on the capital required to support a pandemic borne
    fetish with film.

    Fujifilm Velvia is $30/roll.
    5-pack of Portra 160 in 120: $99 for a 5 pack.
    35mm Portra 160 - single roll: $27
    35mm Ektachrome E100 - single roll: $40.

    (Prices CAD above).

    No idea what processing costs these days either.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Fri Feb 10 09:03:29 2023
    On 2023-02-10 08:32, Whisky-dave wrote:
    On Friday, 10 February 2023 at 06:59:00 UTC, RichA wrote:
    On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 23:23:37 UTC-5, nospam wrote:
    In article <f4ebbe2d-919d-47b0...@googlegroups.com>,
    RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Just like to add, it's not an expensive hobby.
    yes it is.
    I've spent over $100k on telescope stuff and a friend's wife spent almost $1M on horses. Photography is NOT expensive.

    Sex hasn't cost me much, but Trump spent how much on keeping Stormy daniels quiet ;-)

    Not enough, apparently.

    --
    “Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
    danger to American democracy.”
    - J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
    - Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
    committee

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to Whisky-dave on Fri Feb 10 09:08:41 2023
    In article <4ca31c1f-53a6-492e-88a7-214ab52a5389n@googlegroups.com>, Whisky-dave <whisky.dave@gmail.com> wrote:

    Sex hasn't cost me much, but Trump spent how much on keeping Stormy daniels quiet ;-)

    was more than just her.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)