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  • Conal Groom

    From Kieran C@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 13 22:11:52 2023
    Greetings long lost RSR denizens! I see some of you never left. Reddit's r/rowing sub is my current place to read about Juniors wondering who will win Stotes this year (spoiler - it's still St. Joe's prep.)

    Anyway, hearing the recent news about one Conal Groom made me reminiscent for the old RSR days, and I went and looked up the original thread about Conal and his incredible erg claims, back in January 1996:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.rowing/c/UppEV-s-f4s/m/0MLXc0EXyCQJ

    Sadly, it seems Conal has made the news again, yet not for so impressive of a reason:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2023/07/13/conal-groom-rowing-coach-allegations/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.
    eyJzdWJpZCI6IjUyODEzNjE3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY4OTIyMDgwMCwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY5MDUxNjc5OSwiaWF0IjoxNjg5MjIwODAwLCJqdGkiOiJlZTc3NGE4ZC1lMjRlLTQzOTQtYmNkZC00OGY5NjEzYWZiNDIiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20
    vc3BvcnRzL29seW1waWNzLzIwMjMvMDcvMTMvY29uYWwtZ3Jvb20tcm93aW5nLWNvYWNoLWFsbGVnYXRpb25zLyJ9.-w5xMdBa6jwx9jGz98rtMMAjfL9D61ek7oGjQh18VKI

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From carl@21:1/5 to Kieran C on Fri Jul 14 16:19:06 2023
    On 14/07/2023 06:11, Kieran C wrote:
    Greetings long lost RSR denizens! I see some of you never left. Reddit's r/rowing sub is my current place to read about Juniors wondering who will win Stotes this year (spoiler - it's still St. Joe's prep.)

    Anyway, hearing the recent news about one Conal Groom made me reminiscent for the old RSR days, and I went and looked up the original thread about Conal and his incredible erg claims, back in January 1996:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.rowing/c/UppEV-s-f4s/m/0MLXc0EXyCQJ

    Sadly, it seems Conal has made the news again, yet not for so impressive of a reason:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2023/07/13/conal-groom-rowing-coach-allegations/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.
    eyJzdWJpZCI6IjUyODEzNjE3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY4OTIyMDgwMCwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY5MDUxNjc5OSwiaWF0IjoxNjg5MjIwODAwLCJqdGkiOiJlZTc3NGE4ZC1lMjRlLTQzOTQtYmNkZC00OGY5NjEzYWZiNDIiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20
    vc3BvcnRzL29seW1waWNzLzIwMjMvMDcvMTMvY29uYWwtZ3Jvb20tcm93aW5nLWNvYWNoLWFsbGVnYXRpb25zLyJ9.-w5xMdBa6jwx9jGz98rtMMAjfL9D61ek7oGjQh18VKI


    Kieran - I read that WaPo story earlier today, it having been drawn to
    my attention in FB. It is long & chilling, showing how reluctant people
    can be to flag up abusive conduct by hitherto well-regarded or powerful
    people (in sport as elsewhere), & how the supposed regulatory
    authorities too often "look the other way" or buckle, when presented
    with substantial evidence of misconduct involving a favoured individual.

    I see also the malign influence, riding under the surface, of parental
    pressure on the affected young people - parents' ambition leading to
    them tolerating misconduct & thus facilitating the infliction of lasting
    harm on their child.

    Is a young person's "success" in a sport really worth that cost?

    Carl

    --
    Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
    Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
    Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
    Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
    Email: carl@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
    URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roman Sammartino@21:1/5 to carl on Fri Jul 14 13:31:15 2023
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 9:19:01 AM UTC-6, carl wrote:
    On 14/07/2023 06:11, Kieran C wrote:
    Greetings long lost RSR denizens! I see some of you never left. Reddit's r/rowing sub is my current place to read about Juniors wondering who will win Stotes this year (spoiler - it's still St. Joe's prep.)

    Anyway, hearing the recent news about one Conal Groom made me reminiscent for the old RSR days, and I went and looked up the original thread about Conal and his incredible erg claims, back in January 1996:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.rowing/c/UppEV-s-f4s/m/0MLXc0EXyCQJ

    Sadly, it seems Conal has made the news again, yet not for so impressive of a reason:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2023/07/13/conal-groom-rowing-coach-allegations/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.
    eyJzdWJpZCI6IjUyODEzNjE3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY4OTIyMDgwMCwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY5MDUxNjc5OSwiaWF0IjoxNjg5MjIwODAwLCJqdGkiOiJlZTc3NGE4ZC1lMjRlLTQzOTQtYmNkZC00OGY5NjEzYWZiNDIiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20
    vc3BvcnRzL29seW1waWNzLzIwMjMvMDcvMTMvY29uYWwtZ3Jvb20tcm93aW5nLWNvYWNoLWFsbGVnYXRpb25zLyJ9.-w5xMdBa6jwx9jGz98rtMMAjfL9D61ek7oGjQh18VKI

    Kieran - I read that WaPo story earlier today, it having been drawn to
    my attention in FB. It is long & chilling, showing how reluctant people
    can be to flag up abusive conduct by hitherto well-regarded or powerful people (in sport as elsewhere), & how the supposed regulatory
    authorities too often "look the other way" or buckle, when presented
    with substantial evidence of misconduct involving a favoured individual.

    I see also the malign influence, riding under the surface, of parental pressure on the affected young people - parents' ambition leading to
    them tolerating misconduct & thus facilitating the infliction of lasting harm on their child.

    Is a young person's "success" in a sport really worth that cost?

    Carl

    --
    Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
    Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
    Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
    Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
    Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
    URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells


    The hard truth is that coaching rowing is a lonely endeavor with terrible pay. If you read some of the details about how Conal lived outside of practice, you see a lonely miserable man who can only afford to live in a shipping container and spends his
    money on booze. I'm not surprised that someone with that lifestyle behaved in the way he did. He needed serious mental help decades ago, and nobody was there for him.
    I'm not excusing his behavior by any means, but in our sport, we need to take a hard look at how we care for our coaches. It is a really difficult job that requires significant time and financial sacrifices to do. Often times, people who end up coaching
    do so because they spent all their time in the sport that they don't have other transferrable skills. These are the people we need to watch out for. These are the Conal Grooms of our sport that need help before they start falling off the deep end.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From KC@21:1/5 to Roman Sammartino on Fri Jul 14 14:20:15 2023
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:31:17 PM UTC-7, Roman Sammartino wrote:
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 9:19:01 AM UTC-6, carl wrote:
    On 14/07/2023 06:11, Kieran C wrote:
    Greetings long lost RSR denizens! I see some of you never left. Reddit's r/rowing sub is my current place to read about Juniors wondering who will win Stotes this year (spoiler - it's still St. Joe's prep.)

    Anyway, hearing the recent news about one Conal Groom made me reminiscent for the old RSR days, and I went and looked up the original thread about Conal and his incredible erg claims, back in January 1996:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.rowing/c/UppEV-s-f4s/m/0MLXc0EXyCQJ

    Sadly, it seems Conal has made the news again, yet not for so impressive of a reason:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2023/07/13/conal-groom-rowing-coach-allegations/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.
    eyJzdWJpZCI6IjUyODEzNjE3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY4OTIyMDgwMCwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY5MDUxNjc5OSwiaWF0IjoxNjg5MjIwODAwLCJqdGkiOiJlZTc3NGE4ZC1lMjRlLTQzOTQtYmNkZC00OGY5NjEzYWZiNDIiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20
    vc3BvcnRzL29seW1waWNzLzIwMjMvMDcvMTMvY29uYWwtZ3Jvb20tcm93aW5nLWNvYWNoLWFsbGVnYXRpb25zLyJ9.-w5xMdBa6jwx9jGz98rtMMAjfL9D61ek7oGjQh18VKI

    Kieran - I read that WaPo story earlier today, it having been drawn to
    my attention in FB. It is long & chilling, showing how reluctant people can be to flag up abusive conduct by hitherto well-regarded or powerful people (in sport as elsewhere), & how the supposed regulatory
    authorities too often "look the other way" or buckle, when presented
    with substantial evidence of misconduct involving a favoured individual.

    I see also the malign influence, riding under the surface, of parental pressure on the affected young people - parents' ambition leading to
    them tolerating misconduct & thus facilitating the infliction of lasting harm on their child.

    Is a young person's "success" in a sport really worth that cost?

    Carl

    --
    Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
    Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
    Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
    Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
    Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
    The hard truth is that coaching rowing is a lonely endeavor with terrible pay. If you read some of the details about how Conal lived outside of practice, you see a lonely miserable man who can only afford to live in a shipping container and spends his
    money on booze. I'm not surprised that someone with that lifestyle behaved in the way he did. He needed serious mental help decades ago, and nobody was there for him.
    I'm not excusing his behavior by any means, but in our sport, we need to take a hard look at how we care for our coaches. It is a really difficult job that requires significant time and financial sacrifices to do. Often times, people who end up
    coaching do so because they spent all their time in the sport that they don't have other transferrable skills. These are the people we need to watch out for. These are the Conal Grooms of our sport that need help before they start falling off the deep
    end.

    Sorry, I gotta disagree with this take. Conal should have been removed from coaching permanently DECADES ago, long before he was a 48 year old living in a shipping container at his club. His style is unacceptable for coaching anyone, but especially
    youths. Lots of famous great coaches were also famous for their yelling and outbursts (Igor Grinko comes to mind, I've heard similar things about Teti and Spracklen). Its one thing when dealing with mid-20's year old elite athletes (still unacceptable
    IMO) but quite another when working to develop CHILDREN.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't support coaches more, but let's not move the focus of this issue / problem.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James HS@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 15 06:05:27 2023
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 10:20:17 PM UTC+1, KC wrote:
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 1:31:17 PM UTC-7, Roman Sammartino wrote:
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 9:19:01 AM UTC-6, carl wrote:
    On 14/07/2023 06:11, Kieran C wrote:
    Greetings long lost RSR denizens! I see some of you never left. Reddit's r/rowing sub is my current place to read about Juniors wondering who will win Stotes this year (spoiler - it's still St. Joe's prep.)

    Anyway, hearing the recent news about one Conal Groom made me reminiscent for the old RSR days, and I went and looked up the original thread about Conal and his incredible erg claims, back in January 1996:

    https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.rowing/c/UppEV-s-f4s/m/0MLXc0EXyCQJ

    Sadly, it seems Conal has made the news again, yet not for so impressive of a reason:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2023/07/13/conal-groom-rowing-coach-allegations/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.
    eyJzdWJpZCI6IjUyODEzNjE3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY4OTIyMDgwMCwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY5MDUxNjc5OSwiaWF0IjoxNjg5MjIwODAwLCJqdGkiOiJlZTc3NGE4ZC1lMjRlLTQzOTQtYmNkZC00OGY5NjEzYWZiNDIiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20
    vc3BvcnRzL29seW1waWNzLzIwMjMvMDcvMTMvY29uYWwtZ3Jvb20tcm93aW5nLWNvYWNoLWFsbGVnYXRpb25zLyJ9.-w5xMdBa6jwx9jGz98rtMMAjfL9D61ek7oGjQh18VKI

    Kieran - I read that WaPo story earlier today, it having been drawn to my attention in FB. It is long & chilling, showing how reluctant people can be to flag up abusive conduct by hitherto well-regarded or powerful people (in sport as elsewhere), & how the supposed regulatory authorities too often "look the other way" or buckle, when presented with substantial evidence of misconduct involving a favoured individual.

    I see also the malign influence, riding under the surface, of parental pressure on the affected young people - parents' ambition leading to them tolerating misconduct & thus facilitating the infliction of lasting harm on their child.

    Is a young person's "success" in a sport really worth that cost?

    Carl

    --
    Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
    Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
    Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
    Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
    Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682 URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
    The hard truth is that coaching rowing is a lonely endeavor with terrible pay. If you read some of the details about how Conal lived outside of practice, you see a lonely miserable man who can only afford to live in a shipping container and spends
    his money on booze. I'm not surprised that someone with that lifestyle behaved in the way he did. He needed serious mental help decades ago, and nobody was there for him.
    I'm not excusing his behavior by any means, but in our sport, we need to take a hard look at how we care for our coaches. It is a really difficult job that requires significant time and financial sacrifices to do. Often times, people who end up
    coaching do so because they spent all their time in the sport that they don't have other transferrable skills. These are the people we need to watch out for. These are the Conal Grooms of our sport that need help before they start falling off the deep
    end.
    Sorry, I gotta disagree with this take. Conal should have been removed from coaching permanently DECADES ago, long before he was a 48 year old living in a shipping container at his club. His style is unacceptable for coaching anyone, but especially
    youths. Lots of famous great coaches were also famous for their yelling and outbursts (Igor Grinko comes to mind, I've heard similar things about Teti and Spracklen). Its one thing when dealing with mid-20's year old elite athletes (still unacceptable
    IMO) but quite another when working to develop CHILDREN.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't support coaches more, but let's not move the focus of this issue / problem.

    Any coach is in a position of power - and needs to be extremely careful how they treat and nurture athletes in their care.

    Every athlete learns differently - but I never believe that yelling is the right way to achieve the athlete goal.

    The report is shocking - because the authorities turned a blind eye, because the parents turned a blind eye and this abuse took/takes place in a sport that we love ........

    We all have to be lively to this kind of thing, and, I hope, call out this kind of behaviour as it happens on almost every level.

    James

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)