Conmebol qualifiers are now over one-third of the way to North America 2026. This round saw the fall of The Last of the Mohicans, an unbeaten run spread over seven decades broken at the derby of the continental heavyweights, in
the same stadium where it began.

The other games didn't really bring surprises. Uruguay, Colombia and Ecuador remain consistent, Venezuela stays in the midst of the upper echeleons with
a fine away draw, Paraguay, Chile, Bolivia and Peru again don't show much to write home about.

Paraguay 0-1 Colombia

Colombia successfully defends their unbeaten run in this cycle at Defensores del Chaco, Asunción. A penalty kick converted by Borré in the 10th minute separated the two sides. Colombia made most of the play and could have widened their advantage, but were largely stopped by Paraguayan keeper Carlos Coronel

Uruguay 3-0 Bolivia

A predictably easy win for Uruguay after a long attack vs defense drill at Estadio Centenário, Montevideo. Darwin Nuñez added a further two goals to his tally (14th and 70th minutes) and, between them, an own goal by Villamil
at the 39th.

Luis Suarez was subbed in when matters were already settled, and almost added
a fourth goal at the end of the game. Also, unlike what I said last round, *this* was Marcelo Moreno's actual farewell game. The match against Peru was actually his last home game for Bolivia.

Ecuador 1-0 Chile

A deserved win for Ecuador at Estadio Casa Blanca, in Quito. On the 20th minute Angel Mena poached on a rebound by Chilean keeper Brayan Cortés,
after a strong long distance shot by wonderkid Kendry Paez. Ecuador created more chances and deserved a higher win, but in the end were glad that Chile blew a last minute opportunity to steal a very undeserved point.

Brasil 0-1 Argentina

69 years, 8 months, 7 days. That's the amount of time elapsed since March 14th, 1954, when Brasil beat Chile 1-0 at Maracanã in its first ever home World Cup qualifier, until this match. Since then, Brasil built an unbeaten run that lasted for 64 games, with 51 wins and 13 draws. That run came to an end today, at the same stadium, and against the arch-rival.

Kickoff was delayed for about 30 minutes, due to incidents in the stands.
Fans were not properly separated, and a small fight broke out behind one of the goals, due to an argument about the position of a banner (and also due
to some Brazilian fans having booed the Argentinian national anthem). Things took a turn for the worse with the violent intervention of Rio de Janeiro police, who distributed baton beatings and kicked Argentinian fans around
more or less randomly. Instead of lining up for kickoff, Argentinian players ran to the stands to try to appease the fans, and Emiliano Martinez even jumped to try to reach a particularly violent baton brandishing policeman. Surreal stuff.

Meanwhile, Brazilian players just juggled with the ball on their side of the pitch.

At some point Messi decided it was enough and led his team back to the dressing rooms. Argentina took some 15 minutes there, waiting for the situation to calm down. It was also reported that some players had family in that part of the stands.

Eventually they returned to the pitch, and both sides kicked off a very tense and chippy match. 22 fouls in the first half, 42 overall (26 by Brasil, 16 by Argentina). Again Argentina didn't play particularly well and didn't create many chances. Messi seemed uninspired and barely touched the ball. Otoh, Brasil didn't play badly, but seemed to feel the weight of the match.

Overall, a close match, with a slight edge to the hosts. But the visitors were quite far from harmless. Martínez made a couple of important saves at the 53rd and 57th minutes to keep the floodgates from opening and, at the 62nd minute, after a corner kick, Otamendi headed in the opener at Alisson's upper right corner, way beyond the keeper's reach.

After the goal Brasil tried to pile up on the pressure, but seemed to become increasingly nervous as time passed on and didn't really bother the Argentinian goalkeeper anymore, while Argentina kept their cool and confidently held on. Joelinton got red carded a few minutes after being subbed in for a foul on De Paul; Brasil had already been lucky not to have Gabriel Jesus sent off in the first half. On final whistle Argentinian players stayed on the pitch, celebrating
this historic victory with their fans.

In the end, a deserved victory for the incumbent World Cup winners. I wouldn't say they played well, but they showed strength and resilience. As for Brasil, there is a long, long way ahead. Plus, given the incidents involving police and fans, some punishment from Conmebol or Fifa is in order as well.

And for another twist, in the post-match interview, Lionel Scaloni cast doubts about whether he'll stay as manager of Argentina. "I must think about what I should do. This is not a goodbye, but the bar is very high. This team needs
a coach with full energy and feeling well". No idea what he means, but I hope it's not anything bad. He'll have at least a four-month break until Argentina's next match (possibly some friendly in March?) to think it over.

Peru 1-1 Venezuela

Honours even at Estadio Nacional de Lima. Yotún scored Peru's first goal in this cycle in the 17th minute, Savarino drew level at the 52nd. An appropriate result for what appeared to be an even game, and not a bad result at all for Venezuela. Let's see how far they go.


Table [points, games, w-d-l, gs-gc, gd, (mi = media inglese)]

1 Argentina 15 6 5 0 1 8-2 8+ (mi = +3)
2 Uruguay 13 6 4 1 1 13-5 8+ (mi = +1)
3 Colombia 12 6 3 3 0 6-3 3+ (mi = 0)
4 Venezuela 9 6 2 3 1 6-3 3+ (mi = -3)
5 Ecuador 8 6 3 2 1 5-3 2+ (mi = -1) (-3 points penalty)
6 Brasil 7 6 2 1 3 8-7 1+ (mi = -5)
-----------------------------
7 Paraguay 5 6 1 2 3 1-3 2- (mi = -7)
-----------------------------
8 Chile 5 6 1 2 3 3-7 4- (mi = -7)
9 Bolivia 3 5 1 0 5 4-14 10- (mi = -9)
10 Peru 2 6 0 2 4 1-8 7- (mi = -10)


The way things were scheduled, the WCQ was divided in three equal parts with
a lot of space between them: Rounds 1 to 6 in 2023 (September to November); Rounds 7 to 12 in 2024 (again September to November); and Rounds 13 to 18 in 2025 (March, June and September)

So, next round is to be played 10 months from now, on September 5th, 2024.
It is hard to come up with a preview that early, who knows what each team's form will look like by then, or even what each squad composition will look like. Plus, there will also be a Copa America in the middle. I intend to
write up some preview when we're actually closer to the games.

But anyway, these will be Round 7 matches and, in brackets below, the results of these games in the WCQ cycles of 2022/2018/ 2014/2010/2006/2002/1998 (all the round robin ones so far):

Uruguay - Paraguay (0-0, 4-0, 1-1, 2-0, 1-0, 0-1, 0-2)

Peru - Colombia (0-3, 1-1, 0-1, 1-1, 0-2, 0-1, 1-1)

Brasil - Ecuador (2-0, 2-0, n/a, 5-0, 1-0, 3-2, n/a)

Bolivia - Venezuela (3-1, 4-2, 1-1, 0-1, 3-1, 5-0, 6-1)

Argentina - Chile (1-1, 1-0, 4-1, 2-0, 2-2, 4-1, 1-1)


Best regards,

Lléo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:53:18 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Conmebol qualifiers are now over one-third of the way to North America 2026. This round saw the fall of The Last of the Mohicans, an unbeaten run spread over seven decades broken at the derby of the continental heavyweights, in the same stadium where it began.

So the last two remaining streaks for WC qualifiers are Spain unbeaten at home, and
Germany still unbeaten away.

Ciao,
Werner

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Werner Pichler escreveu:

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:53:18 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Conmebol qualifiers are now over one-third of the way to North America 2026.
This round saw the fall of The Last of the Mohicans, an unbeaten run spread
over seven decades broken at the derby of the continental heavyweights, in the same stadium where it began.

So the last two remaining streaks for WC qualifiers are Spain unbeaten at home, and Germany still unbeaten away.

Indeed. I had forgotten about those, so Brasil's streak was not exactly "The Last of the Mohicans". I've had a look at them nonetheless, out of curiosity, just to compare the numbers. As of now, if I haven't made any mistake, Spain's run stands at 58 games, 48 wins, 10 draws, 162 goals scored, 27 conceded.

That means they can't reach Brasil's 64-game run in this cycle yet, since
they host at most what, 3 to 6 home games on the road to WC 2026? However, beating Italy's 59 home games unbeaten run (48 wins, 11 draws, 147-29 goals scored-conceded), which was stopped by North Macedonia in the last cycle, is already within their reach. And, anyway, Spain's run seems to be the longest "living" one, so to say.

Here is the list of games, and later a geographic breakdown:

----------------1954----------------
Spain 4-1 Turkey (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid) ----------------1958----------------
Spain 2-2 Switzerland (??, Madrid)
Spain 4-1 Scotland (??, Madrid)
----------------1962----------------
Spain 1-1 Wales (??, Madrid)
Spain 3-2 Morocco (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid) ----------------1966----------------
Spain 4-1 Ireland (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla) ----------------1970----------------
Spain 1-1 Belgium (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid)
Spain 2-1 Yugoslavia (Camp Nou, Barcelona)
Spain 6-0 Finland (La Línea, Cadiz)
----------------1974----------------
Spain 2-2 Yugoslavia (??, Las Palmas)
Spain 3-1 Greece (??, Malaga)
----------------1978----------------
Spain 1-0 Yugoslavia (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla)
Spain 2-0 Romania (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid) ----------------1986----------------
Spain 3-0 Wales (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla)
Spain 1-0 Scotland (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla)
Spain 2-1 Iceland (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla) ----------------1990----------------
Spain 2-0 Ireland (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla)
Spain 4-0 Northern Ireland (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla)
Spain 4-0 Malta (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla)
Spain 4-0 Hungary (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla) ----------------1994----------------
Spain 3-0 Albania (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla)
Spain 0-0 Ireland (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla)
Spain 5-0 Lithuania (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla)
Spain 3-1 Northern Ireland (Benito Villamarín, Sevilla)
Spain 1-0 Denmark (Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán, Sevilla) ----------------1998----------------
Spain 4-1 Slovakia (Heliodoro Rodriguez Lopez, Santa Cruz de Tenerife)
Spain 2-0 Yugoslavia (Mestalla, Valencia)
Spain 4-0 Malta (José Rico Pérez, Alicante)
Spain 1-0 Czech Republic (Nuevo Jose Zorrilla, Valladolid)
Spain 3-1 Faroe Islands (El Molinón, Gijón) ----------------2002----------------
Spain 2-0 Israel (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid)
Spain 5-0 Liechtenstein (José Rico Pérez, Alicante)
Spain 4-1 Bosnia & Herzegovina (Nuevo Carlos Tartiere, Oviedo)
Spain 4-0 Austria (Mestalla, Valencia)
----------------2006----------------
Spain 2-0 Belgium (El Sardinero, Santander)
Spain 5-0 San Marino (Estadio de los Juegos Mediterráneos, Almería)
Spain 1-0 Lithuania (Mestalla, Valencia)
Spain 1-1 Bosnia & Herzegovina (Mestalla, Valencia)
Spain 1-1 Serbia & Montenegro (Vicente Calderón, Madrid)
Spain 5-1 Slovakia (Vicente Calderón, Madrid) ----------------2010----------------
Spain 1-0 Bosnia & Herzegovina (Nueva Condomina, Murcia)
Spain 4-0 Armenia (Carlos Belmonte, Albacete)
Spain 1-0 Turkey (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid)
Spain 5-0 Belgium (Riazor, A Coruña)
Spain 3-0 Estonia (Romano, Mérida)
----------------2014----------------
Spain 1-1 France (Vicente Calderón, Madrid)
Spain 1-1 Finland (El Molinón, Gijón)
Spain 2-1 Belarus (Iberostar, Palma de Mallorca)
Spain 2-0 Georgia (Carlos Belmonte, Albacete) ----------------2018----------------
Spain 8-0 Liechtenstein (Reino de León, León)
Spain 4-0 Macedonia (Nuevo Los Cármenes, Granada)
Spain 4-1 Israel (El Molinón, Gijón)
Spain 3-0 Italy (Santiago Bernabeu, Madrid)
Spain 3-0 Albania (José Rico Pérez, Alicante) ----------------2022----------------
Spain 1-1 Greece (Nuevo Los Cármenes, Granada)
Spain 3-1 Kosovo (La Cartuja, Sevilla)
Spain 4-0 Georgia (Nuevo Vivero, Badajoz)
Spain 1-0 Sweden (La Cartuja, Sevilla)

They spread these 58 games in 22 cities throughout 13 autonomous communities. Here's a breakdown by city:

16 Sevilla
13 Madrid
4 Valencia
3 Gijón, Alicante
2 Albacete, Granada
1 A Coruña, Almería, Badajóz, Barcelona, Cádiz, Las Palmas, León, Málaga, Mérida, Murcia, Oviedo, Palma de Mallorca, Santander, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Valladolid

And a breakdown by autonomous community:

21 Andalusia
13 Community of Madrid
7 Valencian Community
4 Asturias
2 Canary Islands, Castilla-La Mancha, Castille and León, Extremadura
1 Balearic Islands, Cantabria, Catalunya, Galicia, Murcia

That is pretty much spread around, it seems. But this came from the 1998 cycle onwards. Until 1994, over half WCQ's Spain hosted thus far had been in Sevilla.

Also interesting to note that Spain only ever played one World Cup Qualifier in
Barcelona (a 2-1 win over Yugoslavia in 1969), and never in the Basque Country. I imagine, though, that this might look different if we look also at ECQ's?
But anyway, in those, neither Spain's nor Germany's runs stands.

Now, just for completeness's sake let's have a look at Germany's run. In a sense
I find it even more impressive than Brasil's or Spain's, since those are away games. Adding all up, it's been 50 games, 41 wins, 9 draws, 141 goals scored and 37 conceded, against 29 teams across Europe. Here's the full list:

----------------1954----------------
Norway 1-1 West Germany
Saar 1-3 West Germany
----------------1962----------------
Northern Ireland 3-4 West Germany
Greece 0-3 West Germany
----------------1966----------------
Sweden 1-2 West Germany
Cyprus 0-6 West Germany
----------------1970----------------
Austria 0-2 West Germany
Cyprus 0-1 West Germany
Scotland 1-1 West Germany
----------------1982----------------
Bulgaria 1-3 West Germany
Albania 0-2 West Germany
Finland 0-4 West Germany
Austria 1-3 West Germany
----------------1986----------------
Malta 2-3 West Germany
Portugal 1-2 West Germany
Czechoslovakia 1-5 West Germany
Sweden 2-2 West Germany
----------------1990----------------
Finland 0-4 West Germany
Netherlands 1-1 West Germany
Wales 0-0 West Germany
----------------1998----------------
Armenia 1-5 Germany
Portugal 0-0 Germany
Albania 2-3 Germany
Ukraine 0-0 Germany
Northern Ireland 1-3 Germany
----------------2002----------------
England 0-1 Germany
Greece 2-4 Germany
Finland 2-2 Germany
Albania 0-2 Germany
Ukraine 1-1 Germany
----------------2010----------------
Liechtenstein 0-6 Germany
Finland 3-3 Germany
Wales 0-2 Germany
Azerbaijan 0-2 Germany
Russia 0-1 Germany
----------------2014----------------
Austria 1-2 Germany
Ireland 1-6 Germany
Kazakhstan 0-3 Germany
Faroe Islands 0-3 Germany
Sweden 3-5 Germany
----------------2018----------------
Norway 0-3 Germany
San Marino 0-8 Germany
Azerbaijan 1-4 Germany
Czech Republic 1-2 Germany
Northern Ireland 1-3 Germany
----------------2022----------------
Romania 0-1 Germany
Liechtenstein 0-2 Germany
Iceland 0-4 Germany
North Macedonia 0-4 Germany
Armenia 1-4 Germany

Germany's away win over Russia in the 2010 cycle is an interesting one, as
it broke another decades-long unbeaten home run. The old Soviet Union, which played WC cycles from 1958 to 1990, also never lost a home match - and, in their case, that invincibility was true for ECQ matches as well (EC cycles
from 1960 to 1992).

After the USSR dissolution, FIFA designated Russia as its successor. Though Russia's run in ECQ's didn't last too long after that (lost to France at
home in EC 2000 qualifiers, and a handful more matches further down the line), they managed to keep it alive in the WCQ for a while longer. This defeat to Germany was the first and, as far as I could find, only Russian loss at home
in a WCQ match. Though, for bookkeeping purposes, technically one should probably
count the walk-over loss to Poland in the playoffs for WC 2022 too, I guess?

Just for kicks, here is the list of qualifying games played by the USSR.
To compare like with like, here are the totals:

WCQ's: 26 games, 24 wins, 2 draws, 64 goals scored, 6 conceded
ECQ's: 27 games, 21 wins, 6 draws, 71 goals scored, 17 conceded
Aggregate: 53 games, 45 wins, 8 draws, 135 goals scored, 23 conceded

-------------WC-1958----------------
Soviet Union 3-0 Poland (Lenin Central Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-1 Finland (Dynamo Stadium, Moscow) -------------EC-1960----------------
Soviet Union 3-1 Hungary (Lenin Central Stadium, Moscow) -------------WC-1962----------------
Soviet Union 1-0 Turkey (??, Moscow)
Soviet Union 5-2 Norway (??, Moscow)
-------------WC-1966----------------
Soviet Union 3-1 Greece (??, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-1 Wales (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 6-0 Denmark (??, Moscow)
-------------EC-1968----------------
Soviet Union 4-3 Austria (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 4-0 Greece (Central Dynamo Stadium, Tblisi)
Soviet Union 2-0 Finland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 3-0 Hungary (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------WC-1970----------------
Soviet Union 3-0 Turkey (Central Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 2-0 Northern Ireland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------EC-1972----------------
Soviet Union 2-1 Spain (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 6-1 Cyprus (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 1-0 Northern Ireland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 3-0 Yugoslavia (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------WC-1974----------------
Soviet Union 1-0 Ireland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 France (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 0-0 Chile (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------EC-1976----------------
Soviet Union 3-0 Turkey (Central Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 2-1 Ireland (Central Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 4-1 Switzerland (Central Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 2-2 Czechoslovakia (Central Stadium, Kiev) -------------WC-1978----------------
Soviet Union 2-0 Greece (??, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 Hungary (??, Tblisi)
-------------EC-1980----------------
Soviet Union 2-0 Greece (Hrazdan, Yerevan)
Soviet Union 2-2 Hungary (Central Dynamo Stadium, Tblisi)
Soviet Union 2-2 Finland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------WC-1982----------------
Soviet Union 5-0 Iceland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 4-0 Turkey (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 Czechoslovakia (Central Dynamo Stadium, Tblisi)
Soviet Union 3-0 Wales (Central Dynamo Stadium, Tblisi) -------------EC-1984----------------
Soviet Union 2-0 Finland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 5-0 Portugal (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 Poland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------WC-1986----------------
Soviet Union 4-0 Switzerland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 1-0 Denmark (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 Ireland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 1-0 Norway (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow) -------------EC-1988----------------
Soviet Union 4-0 Norway (Lokomotiv Stadium, Simferopol)
Soviet Union 2-0 East Germany (Republican Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 1-1 France (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 Iceland (Lokomotiv Stadium, Simferopol) -------------WC-1990----------------
Soviet Union 2-0 Austria (Republican Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 3-0 East Germany (Republican Stadium, Kiev)
Soviet Union 1-1 Iceland (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-0 Turkey (Lokomotiv Stadium, Simferopol) -------------EC-1992----------------
Soviet Union 2-0 Norway (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 4-0 Cyprus (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 2-2 Hungary (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)
Soviet Union 0-0 Italy (Central Lenin Stadium, Moscow)

Breakdown by city:

36 Moscow
8 Kiev
5 Tblisi
3 Simferopol
1 Yerevan

And by USSR member state:

36 Russia
11 Ukraine
5 Georgia
1 Armenia

And here's the list for Russia (WC Cycles), until the loss that broke down
the run. At that moment, it stood at 24 games, 18 wins, 6 draws, 55 goals scored and 7 conceded.

----------------1994----------------
Russia 1-0 Iceland
Russia 2-0 Luxembourg
Russia 3-0 Hungary
Russia 1-1 Greece
----------------1998----------------
Russia 4-0 Cyprus
Russia 3-0 Luxembourg
Russia 2-0 Israel
Russia 4-2 Bulgaria
Russia 1-1 Italy
----------------2002----------------
Russia 3-0 Luxembourg
Russia 1-1 Slovenia
Russia 1-0 Faroe Islands
Russia 1-1 Yugoslavia
Russia 4-0 Switzerland
----------------2006----------------
Russia 1-1 Slovakia
Russia 4-0 Estonia
Russia 2-0 Latvia
Russia 2-0 Liechtenstein
Russia 0-0 Portugal
Russia 5-1 Luxembourg
----------------2010----------------
Russia 2-1 Wales
Russia 3-0 Finland
Russia 2-0 Azerbaijan
Russia 3-0 Liechtenstein
Russia 0-1 Germany

So, the USSR/Russian WCQ's home run adds up to 50 games, 42 wins, 8 draws,
119 goals scored and 14 conceded, until they met the away-unbeatable Germans at Luzhniki, on that fateful October 10th, 2009. That means that Spain only caught up with them in the WC 2018 cycle, and also that Germany themselves just matched its length in their away run in the last round of the WC 2022 cycle.

Anyway, it seems like Brasil's 64-game unbeaten home run will remain as the longest of its kind for at least another WC cycle. Unless, of course, there's something else hidden in the vast world of CAF/AFC/CONCACAF/OFC that we're not aware of. I think I'll look it up sometime, not right now though, because this post is already long enough as it is :-)


Best regards,

Lléo

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 11:58:15 PM UTC-5, Lléo wrote:

So, the USSR/Russian WCQ's home run adds up to 50 games, 42 wins, 8 draws, 119 goals scored and 14 conceded, until they met the away-unbeatable Germans at Luzhniki, on that fateful October 10th, 2009.

So it a case of an unstoppable force beating an unmovable object, or the other way around?
(I enjoyed reading this thread)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 2:26:24 PM UTC+1, Werner Pichler wrote:

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Werner Pichler escreveu:

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:53:18 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Conmebol qualifiers are now over one-third of the way to North America 2026.
This round saw the fall of The Last of the Mohicans, an unbeaten run spread
over seven decades broken at the derby of the continental heavyweights, in
the same stadium where it began.

So the last two remaining streaks for WC qualifiers are Spain unbeaten at
home, and Germany still unbeaten away.

Indeed. I had forgotten about those, so Brasil's streak was not exactly "The
Last of the Mohicans". I've had a look at them nonetheless, out of curiosity,
just to compare the numbers. As of now, if I haven't made any mistake, Spain's
run stands at 58 games, 48 wins, 10 draws, 162 goals scored, 27 conceded.

That means they can't reach Brasil's 64-game run in this cycle yet, since they host at most what, 3 to 6 home games on the road to WC 2026? However, beating Italy's 59 home games unbeaten run (48 wins, 11 draws, 147-29 goals
scored-conceded), which was stopped by North Macedonia in the last cycle, is
already within their reach. And, anyway, Spain's run seems to be the longest
"living" one, so to say.

<snip>

That is pretty much spread around, it seems. But this came from the 1998 cycle
onwards. Until 1994, over half WCQ's Spain hosted thus far had been in Sevilla.

Never knew that. Obviously that was by design. To prevent

...accusations of favouritism between Madrid and Barcelona?

(I should learn to finish my sentences)


Ciao,
Werner

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Werner Pichler escreveu:

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:53:18 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Conmebol qualifiers are now over one-third of the way to North America 2026.
This round saw the fall of The Last of the Mohicans, an unbeaten run spread
over seven decades broken at the derby of the continental heavyweights, in
the same stadium where it began.

So the last two remaining streaks for WC qualifiers are Spain unbeaten at home, and Germany still unbeaten away.

Indeed. I had forgotten about those, so Brasil's streak was not exactly "The Last of the Mohicans". I've had a look at them nonetheless, out of curiosity,
just to compare the numbers. As of now, if I haven't made any mistake, Spain's
run stands at 58 games, 48 wins, 10 draws, 162 goals scored, 27 conceded.

That means they can't reach Brasil's 64-game run in this cycle yet, since they host at most what, 3 to 6 home games on the road to WC 2026? However, beating Italy's 59 home games unbeaten run (48 wins, 11 draws, 147-29 goals scored-conceded), which was stopped by North Macedonia in the last cycle, is already within their reach. And, anyway, Spain's run seems to be the longest "living" one, so to say.

<snip>

That is pretty much spread around, it seems. But this came from the 1998 cycle
onwards. Until 1994, over half WCQ's Spain hosted thus far had been in Sevilla.

Never knew that. Obviously that was by design. To prevent

Also interesting to note that Spain only ever played one World Cup Qualifier in
Barcelona (a 2-1 win over Yugoslavia in 1969), and never in the Basque Country.
I imagine, though, that this might look different if we look also at ECQ's? But anyway, in those, neither Spain's nor Germany's runs stands.

What I find interesting is how much harder it apparently was to keep such a streak alive in Euro
qualifiers. If I'm not mistaken Spain's run ended already in 1979 (0-1 against Yugoslavia),
Italy's in 1983 (0-3 against Sweden in what must have been a terrible World Cup hangover),
(West) Germany's also in 1983 (0-1 against Northern Ireland).

Now, just for completeness's sake let's have a look at Germany's run. In a sense
I find it even more impressive than Brasil's or Spain's, since those are away
games. Adding all up, it's been 50 games, 41 wins, 9 draws, 141 goals scored and 37 conceded, against 29 teams across Europe. Here's the full list:

<snip>

For completeness' sake the three home losses:

WC 1986 0-1 v Portugal (which condemned Sweden)
WC 2002 1-5 v England
WC 2022 1-2 v North Macedonia

Germany's away win over Russia in the 2010 cycle is an interesting one, as it broke another decades-long unbeaten home run. The old Soviet Union, which played WC cycles from 1958 to 1990, also never lost a home match - and, in their case, that invincibility was true for ECQ matches as well (EC cycles from 1960 to 1992).

After the USSR dissolution, FIFA designated Russia as its successor. Though Russia's run in ECQ's didn't last too long after that (lost to France at home in EC 2000 qualifiers, and a handful more matches further down the line),
they managed to keep it alive in the WCQ for a while longer. This defeat to Germany was the first and, as far as I could find, only Russian loss at home in a WCQ match. Though, for bookkeeping purposes, technically one should probably
count the walk-over loss to Poland in the playoffs for WC 2022 too, I guess?

Just for kicks, here is the list of qualifying games played by the USSR.
To compare like with like, here are the totals:

WCQ's: 26 games, 24 wins, 2 draws, 64 goals scored, 6 conceded
ECQ's: 27 games, 21 wins, 6 draws, 71 goals scored, 17 conceded
Aggregate: 53 games, 45 wins, 8 draws, 135 goals scored, 23 conceded

Possibly the only aggregate World Cup *and* Euro qualifiers run of such length?

Anyway, it seems like Brasil's 64-game unbeaten home run will remain as the longest of its kind for at least another WC cycle. Unless, of course, there's
something else hidden in the vast world of CAF/AFC/CONCACAF/OFC that we're not
aware of. I think I'll look it up sometime, not right now though, because this
post is already long enough as it is :-)

Now one thing one could discuss is which run was 'tougher' in terms of opponents.
(a job for Futbolmetrix? :)
Brazil had to survive multiple matches against Argentina (until they didn't anymore), but
that only started after CONMEBOL changed their qualification procedure. Spain had Italy
and France as probably hardest opponents, but each one only once.


Ciao,
Werner

Best regards,

Lléo

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Werner Pichler escreveu:

On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 5:58:15 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Werner Pichler escreveu:

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:53:18 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:

Conmebol qualifiers are now over one-third of the way to North America 2026.
This round saw the fall of The Last of the Mohicans, an unbeaten run spread
over seven decades broken at the derby of the continental heavyweights, in
the same stadium where it began.

So the last two remaining streaks for WC qualifiers are Spain unbeaten at
home, and Germany still unbeaten away.

Indeed. I had forgotten about those, so Brasil's streak was not exactly "The
Last of the Mohicans". I've had a look at them nonetheless, out of curiosity,
just to compare the numbers. As of now, if I haven't made any mistake, Spain's
run stands at 58 games, 48 wins, 10 draws, 162 goals scored, 27 conceded.

That means they can't reach Brasil's 64-game run in this cycle yet, since they host at most what, 3 to 6 home games on the road to WC 2026? However, beating Italy's 59 home games unbeaten run (48 wins, 11 draws, 147-29 goals
scored-conceded), which was stopped by North Macedonia in the last cycle, is
already within their reach. And, anyway, Spain's run seems to be the longest
"living" one, so to say.

Actually, I realized that I started counting from 1954 because that's when South America first had an actual qualifying tournament. In the previous
cups it was attempted, but withdrawals meant automatic qualification for
the continent's representatives. That was not the case with Europe. But
adding the 1934, 1938 and 1950 cycles, though, doesn't change the numbers
very much. For Spain:

----------------1934----------------
Spain 9-0 Portugal (Nuevo Charmartín, Madrid) ----------------1950----------------
Spain 5-1 Portugal (Nuevo Chamartín, Madrid)

So, that makes it 60 games, 50 wins, 10 draws, 176 goals scored, 28 conceded, and Spain can actually reach Brasil in this cycle already (maybe even surpass).

For Germany, we also add two games:

----------------1934----------------
Luxembourg 1-9 Germany
----------------1938----------------
Finland 2-4 Germany

This makes it 52 games, 43 wins, 9 draws, 154 goals scored, 40 conceded.

About Italy, I found out something I never knew about. They actually entered qualification for WC 1934, which they hosted. On March 25th, 1934, Italy beat Greece 4-0 at San Siro, and the Greeks declined to play the return fixture. I imagine the WC host had been already picked by then, so that makes Italy (1) the only team to have to qualify to a World Cup they hosted and (2) the only team which could have missed a WC held in their own territory. That's a nice bit of trivia.

They weren't made to play WCQ's for 1938 and 1950, though, so we add one game to their run, which ended at 60 games, 49 wins, 11 draws, 151 goals scored and 29 conceded. So, Spain has already reached Italy.

<snip>

That is pretty much spread around, it seems. But this came from the 1998 cycle
onwards. Until 1994, over half WCQ's Spain hosted thus far had been in Sevilla.

Never knew that. Obviously that was by design. To prevent accusations of favouritism between Madrid and Barcelona?

It could be, given that there was a period they barely played in Madrid as well.
I've looked at Spain's ECQ venues, and Sevilla also was used in almost every qualifier there from the 1984 to the 1996 cycles. It was in the mid-90's that someone decided to spread the games around to the rest of the country.

But still, almost no games in Catalunya or the Basque Country. The only ones I found held there were before the 1980's (two ECQ's in Bilbao and one in Barcelona).

Also interesting to note that Spain only ever played one World Cup Qualifier in
Barcelona (a 2-1 win over Yugoslavia in 1969), and never in the Basque Country.
I imagine, though, that this might look different if we look also at ECQ's?
But anyway, in those, neither Spain's nor Germany's runs stands.

What I find interesting is how much harder it apparently was to keep such a streak
alive in Euro qualifiers. If I'm not mistaken Spain's run ended already in 1979
(0-1 against Yugoslavia), Italy's in 1983 (0-3 against Sweden in what must have
been a terrible World Cup hangover), (West) Germany's also in 1983 (0-1 against
Northern Ireland).

Indeed. I wonder why that is. I mean, you're facing basically the same opponents.

Now, just for completeness's sake let's have a look at Germany's run. In a sense
I find it even more impressive than Brasil's or Spain's, since those are away
games. Adding all up, it's been 50 games, 41 wins, 9 draws, 141 goals scored
and 37 conceded, against 29 teams across Europe. Here's the full list:

<snip>

For completeness' sake the three home losses:

WC 1986 0-1 v Portugal (which condemned Sweden)

The Battle of Stuttgart ("Batalha da Estugarda", to our Portuguese cousins). Reminds me of a post by Petrovich about it.

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.sport.soccer/c/2Spx2w9IDEA/m/NZRGG46NWlcJ

I once watched the final 30 minutes or so in YouTube (can't find it anymore, it was probably removed). I remember the Portuguese TV commentator could barely take it anymore by the end of the game. To say it was one-sided traffic after the goal is an understatement. Credit to Portugal for having held on.

WC 2002 1-5 v England
WC 2022 1-2 v North Macedonia

Heady days for North Macedonia, eh? First this, then Italy.

[SNIP]
Just for kicks, here is the list of qualifying games played by the USSR. To compare like with like, here are the totals:

WCQ's: 26 games, 24 wins, 2 draws, 64 goals scored, 6 conceded
ECQ's: 27 games, 21 wins, 6 draws, 71 goals scored, 17 conceded
Aggregate: 53 games, 45 wins, 8 draws, 135 goals scored, 23 conceded

Possibly the only aggregate World Cup *and* Euro qualifiers run of such length?

I think so. And if we add their successor's run, until it broke at EC 2000 cycle:

-------------WC-1994----------------
Russia 1-0 Iceland
Russia 2-0 Luxembourg
Russia 3-0 Hungary
Russia 1-1 Greece
-------------EC-1996----------------
Russia 4-0 San Marino
Russia 0-0 Scotland
Russia 3-0 Faroe Islands
Russia 2-1 Greece
Russia 3-1 Finland
-------------WC-1998----------------
Russia 4-0 Cyprus
Russia 3-0 Luxembourg
Russia 2-0 Israel
Russia 4-2 Bulgaria
Russia 1-1 Italy

We reach 67 games, 56 wins, 11 draws, 168 goals scored, 29 conceded, until it was stopped at Russia's very first home game of the qualifiers to Euro 2000. A 2-3 loss to France at Luzhniki, on October 9th, 1998. Nice coincidence that it was almost to the day the same date in which they'd lose their WCQ streak to Germany 11 years later. Also, we see that adding Euro and World Cup cycles, they actually surpass Brasil's run.

Anyway, it seems like Brasil's 64-game unbeaten home run will remain as the
longest of its kind for at least another WC cycle.

Correcting myself here: not necessarily so.

Unless, of course, there's
something else hidden in the vast world of CAF/AFC/CONCACAF/OFC that we're not
aware of. I think I'll look it up sometime, not right now though, because this
post is already long enough as it is :-)

Now one thing one could discuss is which run was 'tougher' in terms of opponents.
(a job for Futbolmetrix? :)
Brazil had to survive multiple matches against Argentina (until they didn't anymore),
but that only started after CONMEBOL changed their qualification procedure. Spain had
Italy and France as probably hardest opponents, but each one only once.

That's a good one. In Brasil's case, I'd add Uruguay as another potential threat
to the run, in which case Brasil survived 10 games (ARG x4, URU x6). Only one of
which was before the format change, though.

Now I'm thinking how this could be done. Maybe having look at the opponent's Elo
Ratings? Futbolmetrix, help us out :-)


Best regards,

Lléo

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