I officially propose this as Mark's official Top
9 best teams of all time...
1. Barcelona 2009-2015
2. Milan 1988-1996
3. Real Madrid 1956-1960
4. Santos 1961-1965
5. Ajax 1969-1973
6. Independiente 1971-1975
7. Real Madrid 2014-2018
8. Penarol 1960-1966
9. Boca Juniors 2000-2003
Mark wrote:
1. Barcelona 2009-2015
2. Milan 1988-1996
3. Real Madrid 1956-1960
4. Santos 1961-1965
5. Ajax 1969-1973
6. Independiente 1971-1975
7. Real Madrid 2014-2018
8. Penarol 1960-1966
9. Boca Juniors 2000-2003
If you are happy with your list, who are we to argue?
Your list, your rules.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 15:31:55 +0000, Blueshirt wrote:
Mark wrote:
1. Barcelona 2009-2015
2. Milan 1988-1996
3. Real Madrid 1956-1960
4. Santos 1961-1965
5. Ajax 1969-1973
6. Independiente 1971-1975
7. Real Madrid 2014-2018
8. Penarol 1960-1966
9. Boca Juniors 2000-2003
If you are happy with your list, who are we to argue?
Your list, your rules.
It's our list. I think my rules say it doesn't get declared the
unofficial rss-sanctioned list unless there's no strong disagreement
about it.
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 15:31:55 +0000, Blueshirt wrote:
Mark wrote:
1. Barcelona 2009-2015
2. Milan 1988-1996
3. Real Madrid 1956-1960
4. Santos 1961-1965
5. Ajax 1969-1973
6. Independiente 1971-1975
7. Real Madrid 2014-2018
8. Penarol 1960-1966
9. Boca Juniors 2000-2003
If you are happy with your list, who are we to argue?
Your list, your rules.
It's our list.
I think my rules say it doesn't get declared the
unofficial rss-sanctioned list unless there's no strong
disagreement about it.
On 2025-06-09 11:51, Mark wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 15:31:55 +0000, Blueshirt wrote:
If you are happy with your list, who are we to argue?
Your list, your rules.
It's our list. I think my rules say it doesn't get declared
the unofficial rss-sanctioned list unless there's no strong
disagreement about it.
That is where the flaw in your process is. You are basically
giving any one individual a complete veto over the position in
the list of highly deserving teams. Because of the absence of
Liverpool in this list (pointed out by me and several others),
and vetoed only by you with your anti-English league bias, I
do not accept this as an RSS sanctioned list.
So STRONG disagreenent hereby registered.
As Blueshirt has often said, you are perfectly within your
rights to publish your own lists, and to modify them according
to feedback that confirms your own biases (and hey, we all
have biases). But you can't speak on behalf of everyone.
On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:01:07 +0000, Blueshirt wrote:
MH wrote:
That is where the flaw in your process is. You are
basically giving any one individual a complete veto over
the position in the list of highly deserving teams.
Because of the absence of Liverpool in this list (pointed
out by me and several others), and vetoed only by you with
your anti-English league bias, I do not accept this as an
RSS sanctioned list.
It's a list with biases and yes, we all have them, but even
then Mark's preferences seem to count a lot more than
anybody else's preferences/disagreements, so that only goes
to strengthen the fact that it's "Mark's list" and nothing
more.
That's nonsense. What about Futbolmetrix's
preferences/disagreements?
So STRONG disagreenent hereby registered.
I'm not sure it sinks in, as I feel like a goldfish going
around in the RSS bowl. How many times do people have to
disagree?
But I will also express STRONG DISAGREEMENT.
So which teams do you strongly disagree about in my proposal
for the top NINE?
Mark wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:01:07 +0000, Blueshirt wrote:
MH wrote:
That is where the flaw in your process is. You are
basically giving any one individual a complete veto over
the position in the list of highly deserving teams.
Because of the absence of Liverpool in this list (pointed
out by me and several others), and vetoed only by you with
your anti-English league bias, I do not accept this as an
RSS sanctioned list.
It's a list with biases and yes, we all have them, but even
then Mark's preferences seem to count a lot more than
anybody else's preferences/disagreements, so that only goes
to strengthen the fact that it's "Mark's list" and nothing
more.
That's nonsense. What about Futbolmetrix's
preferences/disagreements?
His list is his list and your list is your list. That's fine. We
don't all have to agree on what the best club sides are/were.
That's the point you seem to be missing. You are trying to
impose YOUR list on the rest of us. It's YOUR list compiled with
your preferences and biases. So I object the THAT. People having
different ideas of what the best club sides of all time is
perfectly normal. YOUR list is fine, as YOUR list. It is not an
RSS list.
So STRONG disagreenent hereby registered.
I'm not sure it sinks in, as I feel like a goldfish going
around in the RSS bowl. How many times do people have to
disagree?
But I will also express STRONG DISAGREEMENT.
So which teams do you strongly disagree about in my proposal
for the top NINE?
Give it up dude, nobody is interested in your list as an RSS
sanctioned list and more people here have disagreed with it than
agreed. It's your list compiled for your reasons. Continuing to
keep going on and on about it is getting annoying at this stage.
There is football being played in the real world, let's discuss
that... not some hypothetical list comparing teams from
different parts of the world and different eras, which makes it
a near impossible task for 100% agreement anyway as we would all
have different criteria of what makes a team "great" in the
first place.
We've come this far; we might as well complete this list. Please will
anybody that strongly disagrees with the latest proposal for the top 9
say which teams they strongly disagree about?
If nobody has strongly disagreed AND stated which teams they think
should be moved up/moved down/included/excluded in the top NINE, by the
end of June, I'll declare the latest proposal the final list, subject
to a possible vote. It is only unofficial after all. Given the apparent
lack of interest, is it worth bothering with a vote. Do people still
feel strongly that we should have a vote to confirm the top 9?
Quoting Mark in rec.sport.soccer:
We've come this far; we might as well complete this list.
Please will anybody that strongly disagrees with the latest
proposal for the top 9 say which teams they strongly
disagree about?
If nobody has strongly disagreed AND stated which teams
they think should be moved up/moved down/included/excluded
in the top NINE, by the end of June, I'll declare the
latest proposal the final list, subject to a possible vote.
It is only unofficial after all. Given the apparent lack of
interest, is it worth bothering with a vote. Do people still
feel strongly that we should have a vote to confirm the top
9?
You can declare it your final list anytime without anyone
else's consent.
anders t wrote:
Quoting Mark in rec.sport.soccer:
We've come this far; we might as well complete this list.
Please will anybody that strongly disagrees with the latest
proposal for the top 9 say which teams they strongly
disagree about?
If nobody has strongly disagreed AND stated which teams
they think should be moved up/moved down/included/excluded
in the top NINE, by the end of June, I'll declare the
latest proposal the final list, subject to a possible vote.
It is only unofficial after all. Given the apparent lack of
interest, is it worth bothering with a vote. Do people still
feel strongly that we should have a vote to confirm the top
9?
You can declare it your final list anytime without anyone
else's consent.
Of course he can, as it's his list. He can post a list of nine
teams, ten teams or one hundred and fifty-six teams! It will
still only be his list no matter what he declares it to be. It
means absolutely nothing beyond that. One man's opinion.
On 29.06.2025 21:02, Mark wrote:
Just over 24 hours to go before the deadline. If anyone
strongly disagrees with the latest proposal for the list,
please will you say so and state which teams you strongly
disagree about by the end of June. If we don't know which
teams you strongly disagree about, then we don't know what
to change about the list, so there's nothing we can do about
it. It's the equivalent of saying you don't agree with the
result of an election but not voting.
I strongly disagree with the latest proposal for the list out
of principle.
On 29.06.2025 21:02, Mark wrote:
Just over 24 hours to go before the deadline. If anyone strongly
disagrees with the latest proposal for the list, please will you say so
and state which teams you strongly disagree about by the end of June. If
we don't know which teams you strongly disagree about, then we don't
know what to change about the list, so there's nothing we can do about
it. It's the equivalent of saying you don't agree with the result of an
election but not voting.
I strongly disagree with the latest proposal for the list out of
principle.
I find what you did willfully disingenuous - because of your ridiculous
bias you've excluded a team most people wanted in the Top 10 and
declared your list to be a Top 9 instead, which is intellectually
dishonest since it would fixate Liverpool in 10th place at best, which
is clearly not what other posters wanted.
Instead, it is you who is the only person to 'strongly disagree' with everybody else.
And I'll spare you the effort, I'll continue to strongly disagree with
any list you put out until you come to terms with your own prejudices.
By your own criteria there is no reason whatsoever to exclude English
teams completely.
Consider English teams like Liverpool fairly, and we could perhaps start
an honest discussion. But I don't see that happening.
Ciao,
Werner
Are people still wanting a vote to confirm the list?
I second everything Werner has said here.
But again, the process of "nobody strongly disagreeing" is fundamentally flawed as it gives any one person a veto over any list.
On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 20:20:40 +0000, MH wrote:
I second everything Werner has said here.
But again, the process of "nobody strongly disagreeing" is
fundamentally flawed as it gives any one person a veto over any
list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem
On 29.06.2025 21:02, Mark wrote:
Just over 24 hours to go before the deadline. If anyone strongly
disagrees with the latest proposal for the list, please will you
say so and state which teams you strongly disagree about by the end
of June. If we don't know which teams you strongly disagree about,
then we don't know what to change about the list, so there's
nothing we can do about it. It's the equivalent of saying you don't
agree with the result of an election but not voting.
I strongly disagree with the latest proposal for the list out of
principle.
I find what you did willfully disingenuous - because of your
ridiculous bias you've excluded a team most people wanted in the Top
10 and declared your list to be a Top 9 instead, which is
intellectually dishonest since it would fixate Liverpool in 10th
place at best, which is clearly not what other posters wanted.
Instead, it is you who is the only person to 'strongly disagree' with everybody else.
And I'll spare you the effort, I'll continue to strongly disagree with
any list you put out until you come to terms with your own prejudices.
By your own criteria there is no reason whatsoever to exclude English
teams completely.
Consider English teams like Liverpool fairly, and we could perhaps
start an honest discussion. But I don't see that happening.
On 2025-06-30 09:41, Werner Pichler wrote:
On 29.06.2025 21:02, Mark wrote:
Just over 24 hours to go before the deadline. If anyone strongly disagrees with the latest proposal for the list, please will you
say so and state which teams you strongly disagree about by the
end of June. If we don't know which teams you strongly disagree
about, then we don't know what to change about the list, so
there's nothing we can do about it. It's the equivalent of saying
you don't agree with the result of an election but not voting.
I strongly disagree with the latest proposal for the list out of
principle.
I find what you did willfully disingenuous - because of your
ridiculous bias you've excluded a team most people wanted in the
Top 10 and declared your list to be a Top 9 instead, which is intellectually dishonest since it would fixate Liverpool in 10th
place at best, which is clearly not what other posters wanted.
Instead, it is you who is the only person to 'strongly disagree'
with everybody else.
And I'll spare you the effort, I'll continue to strongly disagree
with any list you put out until you come to terms with your own
prejudices. By your own criteria there is no reason whatsoever to
exclude English teams completely.
Consider English teams like Liverpool fairly, and we could perhaps
start an honest discussion. But I don't see that happening.
I second everything Werner has said here.
But again, the process of "nobody strongly disagreeing" is
fundamentally flawed as it gives any one person a veto over any list.
Imagine if we conducted elections that way -- who would be left over
? Or decided, in a family, what to have for dinner or what movie to
watch based on "nobody strongly disagreeing" - you would end up with
fairly insipid fare.
Are people still wanting a vote to confirm the list?
I don't see how you can establish a list that represents everyone
without a vote. Again, once my life settles down a bit, I would be
willing to organize a nomination and voting process.
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