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  • Something I'm thinking of today, with the Roe reversal and the Maine de

    From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 24 10:24:41 2022
    Two frightening questions, to some:

    1) Where, in the First Amendment, does it actually say that there is a separation of Church and State?

    and

    2) Where is there any clause of the First which states there is Freedom specifically FROM Religion?

    Now, the Establishment Clause means they can't recognize a state religion. They can make no law abridging the free practice of religion.

    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR prefer
    one over another...

    If you start taking a look at this at the level of that some religion in everyone's life IS required, and allowed to be required under the Constitution (in Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking -- think "Go ye into all the world..."), doesn't the
    Roe reversal make sense, as abhorrent as it is?

    Mike

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  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to Michael Falkner on Fri Jun 24 15:40:35 2022
    On 6/24/2022 1:24 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR
    prefer one over another...

    Thomas Paine says no.

    --
    ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

    Слава Україні та НАТО

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to Ken Olson on Fri Jun 24 12:56:08 2022
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 12:40:39 PM UTC-7, Ken Olson wrote:
    On 6/24/2022 1:24 PM, Michael Falkner wrote:
    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR
    prefer one over another...
    Thomas Paine says no.

    This Court does not recognize Thomas Paine.

    Mike

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  • From The NOTBCS Guy@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 24 17:16:36 2022
    Now, the Establishment Clause means they can't recognize a state religion. They can make no law abridging the free practice of religion.

    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR prefer
    one over another...

    Technically, even if they could, the "Church of No God" (atheism) or the "Church of Who Knows What's Out There?" (agnosticism) could count as a religion.

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  • From Ken Olson@21:1/5 to The NOTBCS Guy on Fri Jun 24 20:59:22 2022
    On 6/24/2022 8:16 PM, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
    Now, the Establishment Clause means they can't recognize a state religion. They can make no law abridging the free practice of religion.

    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR
    prefer one over another...

    Technically, even if they could, the "Church of No God" (atheism) or the "Church of Who Knows What's Out There?" (agnosticism) could count as a religion.

    Isn't that basically the U-U's are?

    --
    ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

    Слава Україні та НАТО

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to The NOTBCS Guy on Fri Jun 24 17:45:07 2022
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 5:16:40 PM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
    Now, the Establishment Clause means they can't recognize a state religion. They can make no law abridging the free practice of religion.

    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR
    prefer one over another...
    Technically, even if they could, the "Church of No God" (atheism) or the "Church of Who Knows What's Out There?" (agnosticism) could count as a religion.

    It would actually have to be declared as such, though -- not the absence of one.

    Mike

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  • From Eric Ramon@21:1/5 to The NOTBCS Guy on Fri Jun 24 18:04:03 2022
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 5:16:40 PM UTC-7, The NOTBCS Guy wrote:
    Now, the Establishment Clause means they can't recognize a state religion. They can make no law abridging the free practice of religion.

    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking, could one group or another force the recognition that you have to have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that they can't tell you how to practice it OR
    prefer one over another...
    Technically, even if they could, the "Church of No God" (atheism) or the "Church of Who Knows What's Out There?" (agnosticism) could count as a religion.

    no they couldn't. Jefferson was a deist, right? Your all-inclusive definition would say that was a religion. It's not. Is there an actual "Church of No God"? No, there isn't.

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to Eric Ramon on Sat Jun 25 00:55:53 2022
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 6:04:07 PM UTC-7, Eric Ramon wrote:

    no they couldn't. Jefferson was a deist, right? Your all-inclusive definition would say that was a religion. It's not. Is there an actual "Church of No God"? No, there isn't.

    Which raises the question of what I asked above?

    And then answer Ken's question as to whether that's the Universal Unitarians (if I have that correct)...

    Mike

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  • From Con Reeder, unhyphenated American@21:1/5 to The NOTBCS Guy on Sat Jun 25 11:51:40 2022
    On 2022-06-25, The NOTBCS Guy <don.p.del.grande@gmail.com> wrote:
    Now, the Establishment Clause means they can't recognize a state religion. They can make no law abridging the free practice of religion.

    But, especially in the Republican/Conservative/Originalist thinking,
    could one group or another force the recognition that you have to
    have SOME form of religion in your life, as a matter of law? In that
    they can't tell you how to practice it OR prefer one over another...

    Technically, even if they could, the "Church of No God" (atheism) or
    the "Church of Who Knows What's Out There?" (agnosticism) could count
    as a religion.

    We have a defacto state church. It flies the Pride flag.

    --
    "Systemic Racism' is such a perfect Marxist formulation. It
    delegitimizes and entire society without blaming anyone in particular,
    so it generates little opposition. It signifies everything and nothing simultaneously. It can't be proven or disproven. It's genius
    propaganda. -- Noah Pollak

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to unhyphenated American on Sat Jun 25 08:02:41 2022
    On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 4:51:45 AM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:

    We have a defacto state church. It flies the Pride flag.

    Try again, you bigoted sack of shit.

    Mike

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  • From RoddyMcCorley@21:1/5 to Michael Falkner on Sat Jun 25 12:15:32 2022
    On 6/25/2022 11:02 AM, Michael Falkner wrote:
    On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 4:51:45 AM UTC-7, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:

    We have a defacto state church. It flies the Pride flag.

    Try again, you bigoted sack of shit.

    Mike

    :-)

    --
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In
    practice, there is." Ruben Goldberg

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  • From TE@21:1/5 to Michael Falkner on Sat Jun 25 15:32:29 2022
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 1:24:45 PM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
    Two frightening questions, to some:

    1) Where, in the First Amendment, does it actually say that there is a separation of Church and State?

    Nowhere, it's a fiction. The goal is to keep the state out of religion, not the other way 'round.

    <snip>

    -TE

    “I never thought I’d live to see the day when the right wing would become the cool ones giving the
    middle finger to the establishment and the left wing becoming the sniveling self-righteous twatty
    ones going around shaming everyone.”
    -Johnny Lydon, The Sex Pistols

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  • From Michael Falkner@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 25 20:08:04 2022
    On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 3:32:33 PM UTC-7, TE wrote:
    On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 1:24:45 PM UTC-4, Michael Falkner wrote:
    Two frightening questions, to some:

    1) Where, in the First Amendment, does it actually say that there is a separation of Church and State?
    Nowhere, it's a fiction. The goal is to keep the state out of religion, not the other way 'round.

    If religion is in the state, then how is the state not in religion?

    You're asking an impossibility there.

    But your point is otherwise correct. Look at the amount of reference religion and God gets in government...

    Mike

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