• Bragg's indictment FAILS to declare what crime Trump was trying to cove

    From Tommy@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 4 17:12:40 2023
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void. Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016 election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates are in
    2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that, the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of limitations.

    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has committed prosecutorial misconduct.
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Tommy on Tue Apr 4 17:45:02 2023
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying to
    cover up, which makes the indictment null and void. Presumably, the
    crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016 election. The problem is
    that ALL of the count's reference dates are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that, the indictment comes AFTER the
    expiration of the statute of limitations.

    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions after
    a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?

    Please tell me you're not that stupid.


    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime was
    committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has committed prosecutorial misconduct. https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf

    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover up
    other crimes, Sunshine.

    But then, you haven't included the full record of the arraignment, have you?

    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also a part of
    the proceeding?

    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>

    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently falsified
    New York business records to conceal criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election.'

    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a
    scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by
    identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress
    its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In
    order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election
    laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of
    various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made
    in furtherance of the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes the election...

    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted offences to
    felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual
    encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through
    a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan. This
    payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an
    illegal campaign contribution and served time in prison. Further, false
    entries were made in New York business records to effectuate this
    payment, separate and apart from the New York business records used to
    conceal the payment.'

    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts that baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tommy@21:1/5 to Alan on Tue Apr 4 20:05:37 2023
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying to
    cover up, which makes the indictment null and void. Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016 election. The problem is
    that ALL of the count's reference dates are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that, the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions after
    a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the indictment, should you bother to read it.


    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has committed prosecutorial misconduct. https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf
    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover up other crimes, Sunshine.

    Again, there IS NO probably cause in the indictment.


    But then, you haven't included the full record of the arraignment, have you?

    I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also a part of
    the proceeding?

    AGAIN, I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>

    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently falsified
    New York business records to conceal criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election.'

    That IS NOT a part of the indictment. Nonetheless, this is a federal matter, NOT a state matter. On top of that, all of this is BEYOND the statute of limitations. You DO know what that means, don't you?



    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a
    scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress
    its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In
    order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of
    various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made
    in furtherance of the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes the election...

    Again, NOT in the indictment, plus Bragg DOES NOT have jurisdiction.


    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted offences to felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through
    a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were made in New York business records to effectuate this
    payment, separate and apart from the New York business records used to conceal the payment.'

    Ditto, Fool.


    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts that baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    How is it that I HAVE TO "school" you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Tommy on Tue Apr 4 22:08:02 2023
    On 2023-04-04 20:05, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of
    limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg
    DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.


    The crimes listed were falsification of business records, Sunshine.


    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime
    was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has
    committed prosecutorial misconduct.
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf


    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover
    upother crimes, Sunshine.

    Again, there IS NO probably cause in the indictment.

    There doesn't have to be, Sunshine.

    The grand jury, by returning a true bill, is stating that they have
    found probable cause.



    But then, you haven't included the full record of the arraignment,
    have you?

    I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also a part
    of the proceeding?

    AGAIN, I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.

    Not that Statement of Facts...

    ...or are you just going to pretend it doesn't exist?



    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>



    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently
    falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct
    that hid damaging information from the voting public during the
    2016 presidential election.'

    That IS NOT a part of the indictment. Nonetheless, this is a federal
    matter, NOT a state matter. On top of that, all of this is BEYOND the
    statute of limitations. You DO know what that means, don't you?



    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated
    a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election
    by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to
    suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral
    prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the
    participants violated election laws and made and caused false
    entries in the business records of various entities in New York.
    The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax
    purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of
    the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes the
    election...

    Again, NOT in the indictment, plus Bragg DOES NOT have jurisdiction.


    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted offences
    to felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s
    request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as
    Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000
    to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her
    from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A
    made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and
    funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer
    A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign
    contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were
    made in New York business records to effectuate this payment,
    separate and apart from the New York business records used to
    conceal the payment.'

    Ditto, Fool.


    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts that
    baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    How is it that I HAVE TO "school" you?

    You haven't.

    You don't know the law.

    Indictments lay out the charges that the grand jury has found sufficient
    cause for which to indict. The indictment document itself doesn't have
    to specify probable cause.

    The Statement of Facts (which you ignored) makes the link to the crimes
    that the falsification of business records covered up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tommy@21:1/5 to Alan on Tue Apr 4 22:31:58 2023
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 10:08:17 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 20:05, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of
    limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg
    DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.

    The crimes listed were falsification of business records, Sunshine.

    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime
    was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has
    committed prosecutorial misconduct.
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf


    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover
    upother crimes, Sunshine.

    Again, there IS NO probably cause in the indictment.
    There doesn't have to be, Sunshine.

    The grand jury, by returning a true bill, is stating that they have
    found probable cause.


    But then, you haven't included the full record of the arraignment,
    have you?

    I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also a part
    of the proceeding?

    AGAIN, I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.
    Not that Statement of Facts...

    ...or are you just going to pretend it doesn't exist?


    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>



    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently
    falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct
    that hid damaging information from the voting public during the
    2016 presidential election.'

    That IS NOT a part of the indictment. Nonetheless, this is a federal matter, NOT a state matter. On top of that, all of this is BEYOND the statute of limitations. You DO know what that means, don't you?



    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated
    a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election
    by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to
    suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral
    prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the
    participants violated election laws and made and caused false
    entries in the business records of various entities in New York.
    The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax
    purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of
    the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes the
    election...

    Again, NOT in the indictment, plus Bragg DOES NOT have jurisdiction.


    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted offences
    to felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s
    request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as
    Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000
    to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her
    from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A
    made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and
    funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer
    A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign
    contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were
    made in New York business records to effectuate this payment,
    separate and apart from the New York business records used to
    conceal the payment.'

    Ditto, Fool.


    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts that
    baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    How is it that I HAVE TO "school" you?
    You haven't.

    You don't know the law.

    Actually, I DO know the law - you obviously DON'T.


    Indictments lay out the charges that the grand jury has found sufficient cause for which to indict. The indictment document itself doesn't have
    to specify probable cause.

    The Statement of Facts (which you ignored) makes the link to the crimes
    that the falsification of business records covered up.

    You have INVENTED facts that AREN'T in evidence. Bragg has NO CASE, which should be summarily DISMISSED. But given the nature of the Kangaroo Courts in NY it may actually go to trial.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Tommy on Tue Apr 4 22:35:34 2023
    On 2023-04-04 22:31, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 10:08:17 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 20:05, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of
    limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg
    DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.

    The crimes listed were falsification of business records, Sunshine.

    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime
    was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has
    committed prosecutorial misconduct.
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf


    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover
    upother crimes, Sunshine.

    Again, there IS NO probably cause in the indictment.
    There doesn't have to be, Sunshine.

    The grand jury, by returning a true bill, is stating that they have
    found probable cause.


    But then, you haven't included the full record of the arraignment,
    have you?

    I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also a part
    of the proceeding?

    AGAIN, I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.
    Not that Statement of Facts...

    ...or are you just going to pretend it doesn't exist?


    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>



    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently
    falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct
    that hid damaging information from the voting public during the
    2016 presidential election.'

    That IS NOT a part of the indictment. Nonetheless, this is a federal
    matter, NOT a state matter. On top of that, all of this is BEYOND the
    statute of limitations. You DO know what that means, don't you?



    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated
    a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election
    by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to
    suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral
    prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the
    participants violated election laws and made and caused false
    entries in the business records of various entities in New York.
    The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax
    purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of
    the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes the
    election...

    Again, NOT in the indictment, plus Bragg DOES NOT have jurisdiction.


    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted offences
    to felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s
    request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as
    Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000
    to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her
    from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A
    made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and
    funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer
    A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign
    contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were
    made in New York business records to effectuate this payment,
    separate and apart from the New York business records used to
    conceal the payment.'

    Ditto, Fool.


    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts that
    baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    How is it that I HAVE TO "school" you?
    You haven't.

    You don't know the law.

    Actually, I DO know the law - you obviously DON'T.


    Indictments lay out the charges that the grand jury has found sufficient
    cause for which to indict. The indictment document itself doesn't have
    to specify probable cause.

    The Statement of Facts (which you ignored) makes the link to the crimes
    that the falsification of business records covered up.

    You have INVENTED facts that AREN'T in evidence. Bragg has NO CASE, which should be summarily DISMISSED. But given the nature of the Kangaroo Courts in NY it may actually go to trial.

    I haven't invented anything, Sunshine.

    I pointed you to a document you want to pretend doesn't exist.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Tommy on Thu Apr 6 15:32:51 2023
    Tommy wrote:

    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of
    limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg
    DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.


    He listed 34; of course you are that stupid.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Tommy on Thu Apr 6 15:31:40 2023
    Tommy wrote:

    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying to
    cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.

    Wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tommy@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Thu Apr 6 21:13:54 2023
    On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 8:32:53 AM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
    Tommy wrote:

    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg
    DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.

    He listed 34; of course you are that stupid.

    And you, being the IDIOT you are, didn't read a SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Tommy on Thu Apr 6 21:15:19 2023
    On 2023-04-06 21:13, Tommy wrote:
    On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 8:32:53 AM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
    Tommy wrote:

    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of
    limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg
    DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.

    He listed 34; of course you are that stupid.

    And you, being the IDIOT you are, didn't read a SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

    Sorry, Sunshine.

    But there are 34 crimes specifically called out in the indictment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tommy@21:1/5 to Alan on Thu Apr 6 21:17:56 2023
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 10:35:38 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 22:31, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 10:08:17 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 20:05, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was trying
    to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void.
    Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016
    election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference dates
    are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top of that,
    the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the statute of
    limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit actions
    after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that Bragg >>> DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in the
    indictment, should you bother to read it.

    The crimes listed were falsification of business records, Sunshine.

    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a crime
    was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by Bragg, who has
    committed prosecutorial misconduct.
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf


    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover >>>> upother crimes, Sunshine.

    Again, there IS NO probably cause in the indictment.
    There doesn't have to be, Sunshine.

    The grand jury, by returning a true bill, is stating that they have
    found probable cause.


    But then, you haven't included the full record of the arraignment,
    have you?

    I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also a part
    of the proceeding?

    AGAIN, I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.
    Not that Statement of Facts...

    ...or are you just going to pretend it doesn't exist?


    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>



    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently
    falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct
    that hid damaging information from the voting public during the
    2016 presidential election.'

    That IS NOT a part of the indictment. Nonetheless, this is a federal
    matter, NOT a state matter. On top of that, all of this is BEYOND the >>> statute of limitations. You DO know what that means, don't you?



    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated
    a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election
    by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to
    suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral
    prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the
    participants violated election laws and made and caused false
    entries in the business records of various entities in New York.
    The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax
    purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of
    the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes the
    election...

    Again, NOT in the indictment, plus Bragg DOES NOT have jurisdiction.


    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted offences
    to felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s
    request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as
    Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 >>>> to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her >>>> from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A
    made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and >>>> funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal, and Lawyer >>>> A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign
    contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were >>>> made in New York business records to effectuate this payment,
    separate and apart from the New York business records used to
    conceal the payment.'

    Ditto, Fool.


    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts that
    baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    How is it that I HAVE TO "school" you?
    You haven't.

    You don't know the law.

    Actually, I DO know the law - you obviously DON'T.


    Indictments lay out the charges that the grand jury has found sufficient >> cause for which to indict. The indictment document itself doesn't have
    to specify probable cause.

    The Statement of Facts (which you ignored) makes the link to the crimes >> that the falsification of business records covered up.

    You have INVENTED facts that AREN'T in evidence. Bragg has NO CASE, which should be summarily DISMISSED. But given the nature of the Kangaroo Courts in NY it may actually go to trial.
    I haven't invented anything, Sunshine.

    I pointed you to a document you want to pretend doesn't exist.

    Legal minds far greater than yours say there is NO CASE here. NONE. ZIPPO. NADA. NULL. Bragg is trying something BEYOND the Statute of Limitations and BEYOND his jurisdiction - this is a TRAVESTY!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Tommy on Thu Apr 6 21:29:53 2023
    On 2023-04-06 21:17, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 10:35:38 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 22:31, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 10:08:17 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 20:05, Tommy wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was
    trying to cover up, which makes the indictment null and
    void. Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence
    the 2016 election. The problem is that ALL of the count's
    reference dates are in 2017, months AFTER the election
    was over! On top of that, the indictment comes AFTER the
    expiration of the statute of limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit
    actions after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was
    that Bragg DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That
    is in the indictment, should you bother to read it.

    The crimes listed were falsification of business records,
    Sunshine.

    This indictment FAILS to show ANY probable cause that a
    crime was committed and thus is an ABUSE OF POWER by
    Bragg, who has committed prosecutorial misconduct.
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/DonaldJTrumpIndictment040423.pdf




    Falsifying business records is a crime whether or not it is to cover
    upother crimes, Sunshine.

    Again, there IS NO probably cause in the indictment.
    There doesn't have to be, Sunshine.

    The grand jury, by returning a true bill, is stating that they
    have found probable cause.


    But then, you haven't included the full record of the
    arraignment, have you?

    I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.


    Any reason you omitted the Statement of Facts that was also
    a part of the proceeding?

    AGAIN, I have included EVERYTHING that Bragg provided, Fool.
    Not that Statement of Facts...

    ...or are you just going to pretend it doesn't exist?


    <https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23741794/donald-trump-statement-of-facts.pdf>





    I'll give you a couple of quotes:

    '1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and
    fraudulently falsified New York business records to conceal
    criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the
    voting public during the 2016 presidential election.'

    That IS NOT a part of the indictment. Nonetheless, this is a
    federal matter, NOT a state matter. On top of that, all of
    this is BEYOND the statute of limitations. You DO know what
    that means, don't you?



    Notice how 2016 appears in the first paragraph? Let's go
    on:

    '2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant
    orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016
    presidential election by identifying and purchasing
    negative information about him to suppress its publication
    and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order
    to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated
    election laws and made and caused false entries in the
    business records of various entities in New York. The
    participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for
    tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in
    furtherance of the scheme.'

    Notice how that both identifies a time period that precedes
    the election...

    Again, NOT in the indictment, plus Bragg DOES NOT have
    jurisdiction.


    ...and the crime for which raised the level of indicted
    offences to felonies?

    Shall I go on?

    '3. One component of this scheme was that, at the
    Defendant’s request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump
    Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”),
    covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly
    before the election to prevent her from publicizing a
    sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the
    $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and
    funded at a bank in Manhattan. This payment was illegal,
    and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal
    campaign contribution and served time in prison. Further,
    false entries were made in New York business records to
    effectuate this payment, separate and apart from the New
    York business records used to conceal the payment.'

    Ditto, Fool.


    I'll let you read the rest on your own...

    ..but please come back if there are any words or concepts
    that baffle you.


    How is it you always get schooled by me on these things?

    How is it that I HAVE TO "school" you?
    You haven't.

    You don't know the law.

    Actually, I DO know the law - you obviously DON'T.


    Indictments lay out the charges that the grand jury has found
    sufficient cause for which to indict. The indictment document
    itself doesn't have to specify probable cause.

    The Statement of Facts (which you ignored) makes the link to
    the crimes that the falsification of business records covered
    up.

    You have INVENTED facts that AREN'T in evidence. Bragg has NO
    CASE, which should be summarily DISMISSED. But given the nature
    of the Kangaroo Courts in NY it may actually go to trial.
    I haven't invented anything, Sunshine.

    I pointed you to a document you want to pretend doesn't exist.

    Legal minds far greater than yours say there is NO CASE here. NONE.
    ZIPPO. NADA. NULL. Bragg is trying something BEYOND the Statute of Limitations and BEYOND his jurisdiction - this is a TRAVESTY!

    And now you deflect.

    You claimed that they hadn't identified the crimes that the crimes
    charges were covering up.

    I showed you the document where they laid that out in detail...

    ...and now you're punking.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bigbird@21:1/5 to Tommy on Fri Apr 7 10:55:32 2023
    Tommy wrote:

    On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 8:32:53 AM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
    Tommy wrote:

    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was
    trying to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void. Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016 election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference
    dates are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top
    of that, the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the
    statute of limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit
    actions after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that
    Bragg DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in
    the indictment, should you bother to read it.

    He listed 34; of course you are that stupid.

    And you, being the IDIOT you are, didn't read a SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

    I think the IDIOT here is the one who didn't comprehend that every
    indictment refer to specific crime... else they would not be
    indictments; fool.

    Have you forgotten what you wrote already?

    You do easily confuse yourself nowadays; I wonder what causes that. :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tommy@21:1/5 to Bigbird on Wed Apr 12 21:53:58 2023
    On Friday, April 7, 2023 at 3:55:35 AM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
    Tommy wrote:

    On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 8:32:53 AM UTC-7, Bigbird wrote:
    Tommy wrote:

    On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 5:45:05 PM UTC-7, Alan wrote:
    On 2023-04-04 17:12, Tommy wrote:
    The indictment FAILS to list the crime(s) that Trump was
    trying to cover up, which makes the indictment null and void. Presumably, the crime(s) is an attempt to influence the 2016 election. The problem is that ALL of the count's reference
    dates are in 2017, months AFTER the election was over! On top
    of that, the indictment comes AFTER the expiration of the
    statute of limitations.
    You're not seriously trying to argue that you can't commit
    actions after a crime in order to cover up that crime...

    ...are you?


    Please tell me you're not that stupid.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that dumb? I guess so. What I said was that
    Bragg DID NOT list ANY crimes that Trump committed. That is in
    the indictment, should you bother to read it.

    He listed 34; of course you are that stupid.

    And you, being the IDIOT you are, didn't read a SINGLE ONE OF THEM!
    I think the IDIOT here is the one who didn't comprehend that every indictment refer to specific crime... else they would not be
    indictments; fool.

    Have you forgotten what you wrote already?

    You do easily confuse yourself nowadays; I wonder what causes that. :-)

    BirdBrain, what you wrote here is utter nonsense, making YOU the idiot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)