• Evidence vs Interpretation

    From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 15 12:35:40 2023
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05283-y

    It's the father/daughter thing that bugs me.

    I'm not into DNA at all, it was so WRONG and so
    MISUSED for so many years that I just stopped
    caring at all. And for many (MANY!) years that
    served me well, opened me to right answers that
    others were blind to, because they read some
    story no I meant "Study" that claimed to PROVE
    something with misused and misinterpreted DNA...

    Now why does the father/daughter thing bug me,
    if I admit that I shunned DNA for 20 years and this
    is a DNA thing, how and why could I pick a fight?

    Because it's not about the DNA at all.

    Look. Let's both assume that the DNA is correct,
    that it's exactly what they claim. The claim, and
    I saw this all elsewhere but I'm too lazy to dig up
    a specific cite but, the claim was that these two are
    first degree relatives -- Father & Daughter or Brother
    & Sister but they have different mtDNA, thus they
    conclude Father & Daughter.

    But...

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2010.1740?sid=0ad44173-f595-4165-9e7b-8bf7d5aabd82

    I liked this. Because I always imagined, as far as
    sexual/reproductive strategies go, Neanderthals were
    more like a gorilla, or an early Mormon, than a Chimp
    or so called "Modern Man." There was more than one
    sexual/reproductive strategy it seems (clear to me)
    and it seemed that I could squeeze Neanderthals into
    a gorilla (Mormon) like arrangement but it was far less
    of a fit into other strategies...

    Anyway, IF the two ideas are correct -- Neanderthal
    males boinked his troupe of females -- then the two
    in the first cite -- the Father & Daughter pair -- could be
    Brother & Sister. The different mtDNA in the pair would
    be consistent with what the second cite argues.

    So it's really not about evidence, it's about INTERPRETATIONS,
    and so often, so very (Very, VERY) often people confuse
    the conclusions, the interpretations -- the OPINIONS -- for
    scientific fact.

    AND THESE OPINIONS DUBBED FACT FOLLOW YOUR BIAS

    And, yes, sometimes the data, the "Facts" are themselves
    bullshit, but that's a story best left for a different thread...

    So what I've been seeing recently is that people are using
    the CONCLUSIONS, the OPINIONS of those who performed
    a study to attack the good Doctor... opinions... "Well this
    other person has a different opinion, they interpret things
    differently, and that's not allowed!"

    If you've got what you think of as facts then build a model,
    a model of human origins/evolution... like the good Doctor
    has done. If these interpretations you mistaken for facts
    doesn't allow you to do that, doesn't answer questions
    elsewhere -- DOESN'T FIT -- then drop it and move on. No
    matter how certain you were that they were "Facts," they
    clearly are not.




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    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/706458573430013952

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  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to JTEM is so reasonable on Mon Jan 16 12:05:41 2023
    JTEM is so reasonable wrote:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05283-y

    It's the father/daughter thing that bugs me.

    I'm not into DNA at all, it was so WRONG and so
    MISUSED for so many years that I just stopped
    caring at all. And for many (MANY!) years that
    served me well, opened me to right answers that
    others were blind to, because they read some
    story no I meant "Study" that claimed to PROVE
    something with misused and misinterpreted DNA...

    Now why does the father/daughter thing bug me,
    if I admit that I shunned DNA for 20 years and this
    is a DNA thing, how and why could I pick a fight?

    Because it's not about the DNA at all.

    And it isn't. It's not about what the DNA looks like, how it's
    different or the same from the next sample, it's how this is
    all interpreted.

    Opinions.

    And people think they are seeing science, they believe they
    are reading facts but it's almost always no more than
    headlines, and those headlines are gushing an opinion....

    You would think that a "Paleoanthropologist" would be at
    least somewhat adept at separating out facts from
    opinions, but you would be wrong...

    Start with the selection bias. Preservation bias. Sample
    bias. Google the terms. Apply them to fossil hunters:

    Where they look and where they don't look!






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    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/706558664018903040

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