• dark matter? naa!

    From saverio donnini@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 22 16:47:15 2023
    i am searching an astronomer or similar ... dark matter begins to live when 120 years ago somebody looks the anomal rotation of the galaxies... why he gave not the reason to the dark/dead stars ?

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to saverio donnini on Thu Mar 23 09:38:15 2023
    On 22/03/2023 23:47, saverio donnini wrote:
    i am searching an astronomer or similar ... dark matter begins to
    live when 120 years ago somebody looks the anomal rotation of the
    galaxies... why he gave not the reason to the dark/dead stars ?

    The missing mass as it was first called is needed to prevent galaxies
    from flying apart since their rotation speed allows you to determine the minimum mass inside the orbit to prevent that happening.

    When they originally named it dark matter (and even up until the 1980's)
    it could still have been any non-luminous normal matter. Astrophysicists
    with a sense of humour suggested missing biros and chair legs.

    However, modern observations from radio through microwave terahertz and
    right up to gamma rays now mean that it is impossible to hide ordinary
    matter that way. It would show up as illuminated by the starlight of a
    galaxy if it were able to interact with electromagnetic radiation.

    The observational data rule out normal matter as a solution.

    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 23 10:56:37 2023
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tvh6mh$137uu$1@dont-email.me>:

    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter:
    https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/

    PS
    what plays the role of the air friction in that comparision is the Le Sage particles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation#

    So, and it seems some measured that graffiti[9999] moves at the speed of light so it may well be that those LS particles are also the carrier of EM radiation. Or maybe the state of those particles is.

    Keep it simple.

    [9999] I know
    Beware of mamaticians doing a divide by zero.

    NeinStein's theory is NO GOOD without a mechanism, Le Sage gives us a mechanism.

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Thu Mar 23 10:22:10 2023
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <tvh6mh$137uu$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 22/03/2023 23:47, saverio donnini wrote:
    i am searching an astronomer or similar ... dark matter begins to
    live when 120 years ago somebody looks the anomal rotation of the
    galaxies... why he gave not the reason to the dark/dead stars ?

    The missing mass as it was first called is needed to prevent galaxies
    from flying apart since their rotation speed allows you to determine the >minimum mass inside the orbit to prevent that happening.

    When they originally named it dark matter (and even up until the 1980's)
    it could still have been any non-luminous normal matter. Astrophysicists
    with a sense of humour suggested missing biros and chair legs.

    However, modern observations from radio through microwave terahertz and
    right up to gamma rays now mean that it is impossible to hide ordinary
    matter that way. It would show up as illuminated by the starlight of a
    galaxy if it were able to interact with electromagnetic radiation.

    The observational data rule out normal matter as a solution.

    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter:
    https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/

    Man are we still doing epicycles?
    ;-)
    Can I get my Nobbel prize nauw?

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  • From Lou@21:1/5 to saverio donnini on Thu Mar 23 06:14:19 2023
    On Wednesday, 22 March 2023 at 23:47:16 UTC, saverio donnini wrote:
    i am searching an astronomer or similar ... dark matter begins to live when 120 years ago somebody looks the anomal rotation of the galaxies... why he gave not the reason to the dark/dead stars ?

    You can ignore dark matter. The rotational speeds of galaxies noted
    by astronomers can easily be explained by ignoring Newton’s assumption
    that ALL the mass of a planet, star or galaxy can be assumed to be at its theoretical Center. As Newton did in his r^2 formula.
    Mercury’s preccession and galaxy rotation curves prove Newton’s assumption to be incorrect. Change the formula to only include mass inside the orbital path of each star as it rotates the center of the galaxy and redo the calculations.
    Suddenly the anomaly disappears. Simply because the total mass of the galaxy increases from a lower threshold with r rather than stay constant.
    Same goes for Mercury preccession. The closer the path of the planet to perehilion,
    the greater the diameter of the sun relative to the planet. And effectively parts of
    the suns volume and mass are closer to the planet which Newton’s R^2 ignores.
    To compensate for this one must add an additional force to r^2 using the following
    formula:
    1/(r+3R)^2
    Which gives much more accurate predictions then Einsteins formula.

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  • From Lou@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Mar 23 06:26:14 2023
    On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 10:56:40 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
    <':
    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter: https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/
    PS
    what plays the role of the air friction in that comparision is the Le Sage particles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation#

    So, and it seems some measured that graffiti[9999] moves at the speed of light
    so it may well be that those LS particles are also the carrier of EM radiation.
    Or maybe the state of those particles is.

    Maybe...Waves.
    Not a bad solution. Considering it deals with the criticisms of Push
    gravity from Kelvin, Maxwell etc. Because no heat or particles are stored.
    And no extra growing mass or collisions are necessary. Nor a need for
    lattices to hold atom together. And finally we can see precedence for wave atoms
    in many observations of water, sound and emr. Where standing waves etc concentrate wave energy to constructively interfere and essentially create nodal points of increased energy with frequency and wavelength properties. Exactly as all observations of atoms confirm (Ie atomic resonance.)
    One can even use Lesage wave gravity to explain GPS. Because atoms
    display resonant properties. & Can best be modelled as resonating systems.
    And resonating systems are observed to change resonant frequencies
    when an external force is applied.Like gravity.
    And the different resonant frequencies of atomic clocks at different altitudes confirm this prediction by LeSage gravity.
    No need for Relativistic fantasies.
    Keep it simple.

    [9999] I know
    Beware of mamaticians doing a divide by zero.

    NeinStein's theory is NO GOOD without a mechanism, Le Sage gives us a mechanism.

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  • From saverio donnini@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 25 16:38:04 2023
    Il giorno giovedì 23 marzo 2023 alle 14:26:16 UTC+1 Lou ha scritto:
    On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 10:56:40 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown <':
    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter: https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/
    PS
    what plays the role of the air friction in that comparision is the Le Sage particles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation#

    So, and it seems some measured that graffiti[9999] moves at the speed of light
    so it may well be that those LS particles are also the carrier of EM radiation.
    Or maybe the state of those particles is.

    Maybe...Waves.
    Not a bad solution. Considering it deals with the criticisms of Push
    gravity from Kelvin, Maxwell etc. Because no heat or particles are stored. And no extra growing mass or collisions are necessary. Nor a need for lattices to hold atom together. And finally we can see precedence for wave atoms
    in many observations of water, sound and emr. Where standing waves etc concentrate wave energy to constructively interfere and essentially create nodal points of increased energy with frequency and wavelength properties. Exactly as all observations of atoms confirm (Ie atomic resonance.)
    One can even use Lesage wave gravity to explain GPS. Because atoms
    display resonant properties. & Can best be modelled as resonating systems. And resonating systems are observed to change resonant frequencies
    when an external force is applied.Like gravity.
    And the different resonant frequencies of atomic clocks at different altitudes
    confirm this prediction by LeSage gravity.
    No need for Relativistic fantasies.
    Keep it simple.

    [9999] I know
    Beware of mamaticians doing a divide by zero.

    NeinStein's theory is NO GOOD without a mechanism, Le Sage gives us a mechanism.
    .. in our galaxy seems to be a lack of matter 3 times the probable observed matter ..but there are example where the lack is 90 times the observed or more .. so problem is exsisting ..
    .. the Hubble theleskope sais surprisingly also that there are 50% of (impossible) negative parallaxes but the news is also today neglected because not classificable (????)... see my site www.leonardomuseum.blogspot.com in 'Laboratorio' a dedicated
    section ..

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to donnini on Sun Mar 26 06:18:04 2023
    On a sunny day (Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:38:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened saverio donnini <oldogf@yahoo.it> wrote in <6315fd29-7d3f-4cd4-b3be-57ef4f497b04n@googlegroups.com>:

    .. in our galaxy seems to be a lack of matter 3 times the probable observed=
    matter ..but there are example where the lack is 90 times the observed or =
    more .. so problem is exsisting ..
    .. the Hubble theleskope sais surprisingly also that there are 50% of (impo= >ssible) negative parallaxes but the news is also today neglected because no= >t classificable (????)... see my site www.leonardomuseum.blogspot.com in '= >Laboratorio' a dedicated section ..


    OK, I will have to work on my Italian,. been a while since I was there :-)
    As a kid I had a book about Leonardo :-)
    Facinating thinker, he even described the priciple of a helicopter.
    Nice website!

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  • From Lou@21:1/5 to saverio donnini on Sun Mar 26 02:49:27 2023
    On Saturday, 25 March 2023 at 23:38:06 UTC, saverio donnini wrote:
    Il giorno giovedì 23 marzo 2023 alle 14:26:16 UTC+1 Lou ha scritto:
    On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 10:56:40 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
    <':
    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter: https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/
    PS
    what plays the role of the air friction in that comparision is the Le Sage particles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation#

    So, and it seems some measured that graffiti[9999] moves at the speed of light
    so it may well be that those LS particles are also the carrier of EM radiation.
    Or maybe the state of those particles is.

    Maybe...Waves.
    Not a bad solution. Considering it deals with the criticisms of Push gravity from Kelvin, Maxwell etc. Because no heat or particles are stored. And no extra growing mass or collisions are necessary. Nor a need for lattices to hold atom together. And finally we can see precedence for wave atoms
    in many observations of water, sound and emr. Where standing waves etc concentrate wave energy to constructively interfere and essentially create nodal points of increased energy with frequency and wavelength properties. Exactly as all observations of atoms confirm (Ie atomic resonance.)
    One can even use Lesage wave gravity to explain GPS. Because atoms
    display resonant properties. & Can best be modelled as resonating systems. And resonating systems are observed to change resonant frequencies
    when an external force is applied.Like gravity.
    And the different resonant frequencies of atomic clocks at different altitudes
    confirm this prediction by LeSage gravity.
    No need for Relativistic fantasies.
    Keep it simple.

    [9999] I know
    Beware of mamaticians doing a divide by zero.

    NeinStein's theory is NO GOOD without a mechanism, Le Sage gives us a mechanism.
    .. in our galaxy seems to be a lack of matter 3 times the probable observed matter ..but there are example where the lack is 90 times the observed or more .. so problem is exsisting ..
    .. the Hubble theleskope sais surprisingly also that there are 50% of (impossible) negative parallaxes but the news is also today neglected because not classificable (????)...
    I am not familiar until now with your point about “ negative” parallax. But, a brief look at this subject of negative parallax seems to suggest
    that as we don’t know which stars of two compared are closest
    then for all star data, 1/4 (A)will always appear to have negative,
    & 1/4 positive (B) and 1/2 no parallax.
    It sounds like for every star x observed in the catalogue another nearby
    star y is used as background reference to calculate the parallax for x.
    So it’s not that 1/4 stars have negative parallax. It’s because that in the Negative quarter sample the assumed background reference star y
    is actually nearer to us than x.
    Which makes sense seeing as statistically if you compare any 2 stars
    in close proximity in the sky field to each other than 1/2 will be the
    more distant. But you don’t know which half.
    Hopefully that makes sense.

    see my site www.leonardomuseum.blogspot.com in 'Laboratorio' a dedicated section ..

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  • From saverio donnini@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 29 17:29:27 2023
    Il giorno domenica 26 marzo 2023 alle 11:49:29 UTC+2 Lou ha scritto:
    On Saturday, 25 March 2023 at 23:38:06 UTC, saverio donnini wrote:
    Il giorno giovedì 23 marzo 2023 alle 14:26:16 UTC+1 Lou ha scritto:
    On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 10:56:40 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
    <':
    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter: https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/
    PS
    what plays the role of the air friction in that comparision is the Le Sage particles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation#

    So, and it seems some measured that graffiti[9999] moves at the speed of light
    so it may well be that those LS particles are also the carrier of EM radiation.
    Or maybe the state of those particles is.

    Maybe...Waves.
    Not a bad solution. Considering it deals with the criticisms of Push gravity from Kelvin, Maxwell etc. Because no heat or particles are stored.
    And no extra growing mass or collisions are necessary. Nor a need for lattices to hold atom together. And finally we can see precedence for wave atoms
    in many observations of water, sound and emr. Where standing waves etc concentrate wave energy to constructively interfere and essentially create
    nodal points of increased energy with frequency and wavelength properties.
    Exactly as all observations of atoms confirm (Ie atomic resonance.)
    One can even use Lesage wave gravity to explain GPS. Because atoms display resonant properties. & Can best be modelled as resonating systems.
    And resonating systems are observed to change resonant frequencies
    when an external force is applied.Like gravity.
    And the different resonant frequencies of atomic clocks at different altitudes
    confirm this prediction by LeSage gravity.
    No need for Relativistic fantasies.
    Keep it simple.

    [9999] I know
    Beware of mamaticians doing a divide by zero.

    NeinStein's theory is NO GOOD without a mechanism, Le Sage gives us a mechanism.
    .. in our galaxy seems to be a lack of matter 3 times the probable observed matter ..but there are example where the lack is 90 times the observed or more .. so problem is exsisting ..
    .. the Hubble theleskope sais surprisingly also that there are 50% of (impossible) negative parallaxes but the news is also today neglected because not classificable (????)...
    I am not familiar until now with your point about “ negative” parallax. But, a brief look at this subject of negative parallax seems to suggest
    that as we don’t know which stars of two compared are closest
    then for all star data, 1/4 (A)will always appear to have negative,
    & 1/4 positive (B) and 1/2 no parallax.
    It sounds like for every star x observed in the catalogue another nearby star y is used as background reference to calculate the parallax for x.
    So it’s not that 1/4 stars have negative parallax. It’s because that in the
    Negative quarter sample the assumed background reference star y
    is actually nearer to us than x.
    Which makes sense seeing as statistically if you compare any 2 stars
    in close proximity in the sky field to each other than 1/2 will be the
    more distant. But you don’t know which half.
    Hopefully that makes sense.
    see my site www.leonardomuseum.blogspot.com in 'Laboratorio' a dedicated section ..
    thanks for your anwer ... can i know where you get your informations ?

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  • From Lou@21:1/5 to saverio donnini on Thu Mar 30 05:51:37 2023
    On Thursday, 30 March 2023 at 01:29:28 UTC+1, saverio donnini wrote:
    Il giorno domenica 26 marzo 2023 alle 11:49:29 UTC+2 Lou ha scritto:
    On Saturday, 25 March 2023 at 23:38:06 UTC, saverio donnini wrote:
    Il giorno giovedì 23 marzo 2023 alle 14:26:16 UTC+1 Lou ha scritto:
    On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 10:56:40 UTC, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 09:38:15 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
    <':
    The simple answer is then: Galaxies ARE flying apart.
    You see something rotating in the center with often 2 'arms' spitting out matter like a garden sprinkler,
    but not water but stars and othter matter: https://esahubble.org/images/archive/category/galaxies/
    PS
    what plays the role of the air friction in that comparision is the Le Sage particles:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation#

    So, and it seems some measured that graffiti[9999] moves at the speed of light
    so it may well be that those LS particles are also the carrier of EM radiation.
    Or maybe the state of those particles is.

    Maybe...Waves.
    Not a bad solution. Considering it deals with the criticisms of Push gravity from Kelvin, Maxwell etc. Because no heat or particles are stored.
    And no extra growing mass or collisions are necessary. Nor a need for lattices to hold atom together. And finally we can see precedence for wave atoms
    in many observations of water, sound and emr. Where standing waves etc concentrate wave energy to constructively interfere and essentially create
    nodal points of increased energy with frequency and wavelength properties.
    Exactly as all observations of atoms confirm (Ie atomic resonance.) One can even use Lesage wave gravity to explain GPS. Because atoms display resonant properties. & Can best be modelled as resonating systems.
    And resonating systems are observed to change resonant frequencies when an external force is applied.Like gravity.
    And the different resonant frequencies of atomic clocks at different altitudes
    confirm this prediction by LeSage gravity.
    No need for Relativistic fantasies.
    Keep it simple.

    [9999] I know
    Beware of mamaticians doing a divide by zero.

    NeinStein's theory is NO GOOD without a mechanism, Le Sage gives us a mechanism.
    .. in our galaxy seems to be a lack of matter 3 times the probable observed matter ..but there are example where the lack is 90 times the observed or more .. so problem is exsisting ..
    .. the Hubble theleskope sais surprisingly also that there are 50% of (impossible) negative parallaxes but the news is also today neglected because not classificable (????)...
    I am not familiar until now with your point about “ negative” parallax.
    But, a brief look at this subject of negative parallax seems to suggest that as we don’t know which stars of two compared are closest
    then for all star data, 1/4 (A)will always appear to have negative,
    & 1/4 positive (B) and 1/2 no parallax.
    It sounds like for every star x observed in the catalogue another nearby star y is used as background reference to calculate the parallax for x.
    So it’s not that 1/4 stars have negative parallax. It’s because that in the
    Negative quarter sample the assumed background reference star y
    is actually nearer to us than x.
    Which makes sense seeing as statistically if you compare any 2 stars
    in close proximity in the sky field to each other than 1/2 will be the more distant. But you don’t know which half.
    Hopefully that makes sense.
    see my site www.leonardomuseum.blogspot.com in 'Laboratorio' a dedicated section ..
    thanks for your anwer ... can i know where you get your informations ?
    I typed in negative parallax stars Gaia into google and got a variety
    of sites. From flat earth to flat earth critics through ESA NASA etc.
    Some blog sites said the split was about 50-50 between neg and positive parallax. Some academic sites have histograms showing what appears
    to be data confirming an even split. Some academic papers say only
    few stars show neg parallax.
    I just read a few and thought an obvious answer to a 50- 50 split
    between neg and pos would be the obvious. Which I mentioned in my
    last post.

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