Basic question
Would it be possible to build a classic turbine driven
power plant on the moon?
Basic question
Would it be possible to build a classic turbine driven
power plant on the moon?
There are likely no fossil fuels on the moon and no uncombined
oxygen.
There is however likely some uranium, if you could use some
energy to mine and purify it to build power plant cores.
Then in theory if you used energy from such material you
then might use the heat of the core to melt and reduce
metals and generate raw materials for building robots and
other materials to mine and extract more from the moon
to build with.
There is also oxygen in the moon as the oxides of metals,
so reduce the metals and you have the potential for solid
rocket fuel and oxygen to combine it with.
Now one way of reducing metals is electrolysis, and you
could use a core for heating to get higher temperatures. The
problem is stable reliable cooling.
There is no water on the moon to cool a power plant and
there is no air on the moon also.
So are classic turbine power plants on the moon impossible
due to a lack of a reliable cooling method? How much surface
area would you need to rely on radiation alone without fans or
water exposed to an external environment to cool something?
How long would it take for a kilogram or a ton of molten iron
to cool to room temperature in the shade on the moon?
Now I am guessing that Mars would be different because there
would be ice and dry ice at the poles. Is it reasonable to say
that this problem would be essentially the same on Mercury
as on the Moon except there would be greater potential for solar
energy use comparatively?
On 22/02/2022 20:37, Trolidan7 wrote:
Basic question
Would it be possible to build a classic turbine driven
power plant on the moon?
There are likely no fossil fuels on the moon and no uncombined
oxygen.
There is however likely some uranium, if you could use some
energy to mine and purify it to build power plant cores.
Then in theory if you used energy from such material you
then might use the heat of the core to melt and reduce
metals and generate raw materials for building robots and
other materials to mine and extract more from the moon
to build with.
There is also oxygen in the moon as the oxides of metals,
so reduce the metals and you have the potential for solid
rocket fuel and oxygen to combine it with.
Now one way of reducing metals is electrolysis, and you
could use a core for heating to get higher temperatures. The
problem is stable reliable cooling.
There is no water on the moon to cool a power plant and
there is no air on the moon also.
So are classic turbine power plants on the moon impossible
due to a lack of a reliable cooling method? How much surface
area would you need to rely on radiation alone without fans or
water exposed to an external environment to cool something?
How long would it take for a kilogram or a ton of molten iron
to cool to room temperature in the shade on the moon?
Now I am guessing that Mars would be different because there
would be ice and dry ice at the poles. Is it reasonable to say
that this problem would be essentially the same on Mercury
as on the Moon except there would be greater potential for solar
energy use comparatively?
Why go to all that trouble when on the Moon you have an unlimited amount
of solar energy for half the time, after all there are no clouds (but
you would need storage batteries to get through the nights), or all the
time if you put the solar panels on the rim of a crater near one of the
poles (IIRC the equator is nearly in alignment with the ecliptic). And
there is plenty of silicon available to manufacture the panels.
Refining crustal uranium and enriching it to reactor purity needs a
pretty intensive industrial capability, and if you wanted to smelt and
refine metals from surface rocks you would only need to have a
reflecting surface to focus the sunlight on the rocks to generate a lot
of heat.
Mike Dworetsky
On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:37:37 -0800) it happened Trolidan7 <Trolidan7@eternal-september.org> wrote in <sv3hij$4d3$1@dont-email.me>:
Basic question
Would it be possible to build a classic turbine driven
power plant on the moon?
I do not know,
but for small things like a moon station one or more RTGs would work fine
and will work for a long time without maintenance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
Radiate to space for cooling.
The generated heat could also be used to warm human habitats.
I do not think there is much of a technology problem'
What we need is the political will to go and colonize the universe
Endless driving around the block in an ISS is silly.
On 2/23/22 1:59 AM, Michael Dworetsky wrote:
On 22/02/2022 20:37, Trolidan7 wrote:
Basic question
Would it be possible to build a classic turbine driven
power plant on the moon?
There are likely no fossil fuels on the moon and no uncombined
oxygen.
There is however likely some uranium, if you could use some
energy to mine and purify it to build power plant cores.
Then in theory if you used energy from such material you
then might use the heat of the core to melt and reduce
metals and generate raw materials for building robots and
other materials to mine and extract more from the moon
to build with.
There is also oxygen in the moon as the oxides of metals,
so reduce the metals and you have the potential for solid
rocket fuel and oxygen to combine it with.
Now one way of reducing metals is electrolysis, and you
could use a core for heating to get higher temperatures. The
problem is stable reliable cooling.
There is no water on the moon to cool a power plant and
there is no air on the moon also.
So are classic turbine power plants on the moon impossible
due to a lack of a reliable cooling method? How much surface
area would you need to rely on radiation alone without fans or
water exposed to an external environment to cool something?
How long would it take for a kilogram or a ton of molten iron
to cool to room temperature in the shade on the moon?
Now I am guessing that Mars would be different because there
would be ice and dry ice at the poles. Is it reasonable to say
that this problem would be essentially the same on Mercury
as on the Moon except there would be greater potential for solar
energy use comparatively?
Why go to all that trouble when on the Moon you have an unlimited amount of solar energy for half the time, after all there are no clouds (but
you would need storage batteries to get through the nights), or all the time if you put the solar panels on the rim of a crater near one of the poles (IIRC the equator is nearly in alignment with the ecliptic). And there is plenty of silicon available to manufacture the panels.
Refining crustal uranium and enriching it to reactor purity needs a
pretty intensive industrial capability, and if you wanted to smelt and refine metals from surface rocks you would only need to have a
reflecting surface to focus the sunlight on the rocks to generate a lot
of heat.
Mike Dworetsky
A am not sure about all of the properties of amorphous non-reduced
silica, but even classic solar panels require reduction of silicon as
a non-oxide like aluminum or iron.
Solar energy is relatively diffuse and non-concentrated as a form of
energy.
There would definitely be more of it on Mercury, but like Mars, it
is about 200 times further away than the Moon at closest approach (.5 AU).
No humans to repair all the mining and metal working robots either since they require food and air and water.
On 2/23/22 1:59 AM, Michael Dworetsky wrote:
On 22/02/2022 20:37, Trolidan7 wrote:
Basic question
Would it be possible to build a classic turbine driven
power plant on the moon?
There are likely no fossil fuels on the moon and no uncombined
oxygen.
There is however likely some uranium, if you could use some
energy to mine and purify it to build power plant cores.
Then in theory if you used energy from such material you
then might use the heat of the core to melt and reduce
metals and generate raw materials for building robots and
other materials to mine and extract more from the moon
to build with.
There is also oxygen in the moon as the oxides of metals,
so reduce the metals and you have the potential for solid
rocket fuel and oxygen to combine it with.
Now one way of reducing metals is electrolysis, and you
could use a core for heating to get higher temperatures. The
problem is stable reliable cooling.
There is no water on the moon to cool a power plant and
there is no air on the moon also.
So are classic turbine power plants on the moon impossible
due to a lack of a reliable cooling method? How much surface
area would you need to rely on radiation alone without fans or
water exposed to an external environment to cool something?
How long would it take for a kilogram or a ton of molten iron
to cool to room temperature in the shade on the moon?
Now I am guessing that Mars would be different because there
would be ice and dry ice at the poles. Is it reasonable to say
that this problem would be essentially the same on Mercury
as on the Moon except there would be greater potential for solar
energy use comparatively?
Why go to all that trouble when on the Moon you have an unlimited
amount of solar energy for half the time, after all there are no
clouds (but you would need storage batteries to get through the
nights), or all the time if you put the solar panels on the rim of a
crater near one of the poles (IIRC the equator is nearly in alignment
with the ecliptic). And there is plenty of silicon available to
manufacture the panels.
Refining crustal uranium and enriching it to reactor purity needs a
pretty intensive industrial capability, and if you wanted to smelt and
refine metals from surface rocks you would only need to have a
reflecting surface to focus the sunlight on the rocks to generate a
lot of heat.
Mike Dworetsky
A am not sure about all of the properties of amorphous non-reduced
silica, but even classic solar panels require reduction of silicon as
a non-oxide like aluminum or iron.
Solar energy is relatively diffuse and non-concentrated as a form of
energy.
There would definitely be more of it on Mercury, but like Mars, it
is about 200 times further away than the Moon at closest approach (.5 AU).
No humans to repair all the mining and metal working robots either since
they require food and air and water.
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