• What have they done to our FLRW of olde?

    From Eric Flesch@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 11 22:07:34 2025
    Yes, 30 years ago, our FLRW was clear: While a "critical density"
    (omega=1) flat space-time manifold was theorized, still it was held
    that a low-density (omega<1) hyperbolic metric was possible, for which
    space would expand forever. All was well in the Garden of FLRW.

    In 1998, new SNIa results showed that "expansion" was "accelerating"!
    Panic! The new physics of "dark energy" was whipped up to fit the new observations while maintaining flat space-time.

    But the old FLRW could have accomodated the new observations just
    fine. All that was needed was to accept that, in a forever-expanding
    universe, the space-time metric was indeed omega<1 hyperbolic, as FLRW
    had prescribed. In that metric, distant objects are fainter, as is
    observed. There is no need for acceleration, nor "dark energy".

    I'm not aware that in 1998 it was even considered that the metric
    could be hyperbolic. This is because all our cosmological theory is
    premised on a flat metric. Nobody wanted to ditch decades of work.
    But, of course, the universe does not care what kind of work we are
    doing.

    So it seems that we were not serious about the FLRW of olde, we only
    pretended that the metric might be hyperbolic. When the chips came
    down, the flat metric was clung to at all costs. That's not how
    science should work.

    So I think we need some astrophysicists to research how well current observations conform to an open hyperbolic universal metric, without
    any need for dark energy.

    Eric Flesch

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  • From Phillip Helbig---undress to reply@21:1/5 to Eric Flesch on Sat Jul 12 22:19:00 2025
    Eric Flesch wrote:

    Yes, 30 years ago, our FLRW was clear: While a "critical density"
    (omega=1) flat space-time manifold was theorized, still it was held
    that a low-density (omega<1) hyperbolic metric was possible, for which
    space would expand forever. All was well in the Garden of FLRW.

    Already 30 years ago there were hints that the Universe is (at least
    almost) spatially flat. Your description is good for the time before
    that. Another way to phrase it: cosmologists had so little data that a
    large number of cosmological models were compatible with the data.

    Also, while some favoured a flat Universe because they believed in
    inflation, what tipped the scales were purely observational reasons for believing in flatness.

    In 1998, new SNIa results showed that "expansion" was "accelerating"!
    Panic! The new physics of "dark energy" was whipped up to fit the new observations while maintaining flat space-time.

    This is just wrong. First, while some might have been surprised, for
    others it was essentially measuring a parameter which until then hadn't
    been well constrained. No new physics was whipped up; the cosmological constant, introduced in the first paper on relativistic cosmology almost
    a hundred years before, fit the data just fine.

    But the old FLRW could have accomodated the new observations just
    fine.

    That is just wrong.

    All that was needed was to accept that, in a forever-expanding
    universe, the space-time metric was indeed omega<1 hyperbolic, as FLRW
    had prescribed. In that metric, distant objects are fainter, as is
    observed. There is no need for acceleration, nor "dark energy".

    That is just wrong. Yes, in a non-accelerating hyperbolic universe,
    objects are fainter than in the Einstein--de Sitter universe. Just read
    any paper about supernova cosmology. Usually quite a wide range of cosmological models are considered, including spatially hyperbolic ones
    without acceleration. They are ruled out by the data. It's not just a question of whether something is fainter than in some fiducial model,
    it's a question of how much fainter and how the brightness depends on
    redshift. Precision cosmology.

    I'm not aware that in 1998 it was even considered that the metric
    could be hyperbolic.

    Again, it is in essentially every paper on supernova cosmology.


    This is because all our cosmological theory is
    premised on a flat metric.

    Again, simply not true. While it is true that, somewhat later, some
    started assuming flatness because observations had indicated that the
    Universe is at least almost flat, there is no sense in which all
    cosmological theorty depends on a flat metric. Yes, inflation strongly
    hints that the Universe must be close to flat, but these days it is an observational fact. Traditional observational cosmology also doesn't
    depend on inflation.


    Nobody wanted to ditch decades of work.

    Which decades? It was only after 1980 or so that belief in inflation
    led to the prejudice of a flat Universe. Yes, Einsten and de Sitter had suggested their flat model back in the 1930s, but read the last
    sentence, in which they make it clear that since the curvature is
    essentially measurable, one should try to measure it, but until better
    data are available, why not use a simple model as an approximation?

    But, of course, the universe does not care what kind of work we are
    doing.

    Of course not. But who claims that it does?

    So it seems that we were not serious about the FLRW of olde, we only pretended that the metric might be hyperbolic. When the chips came
    down, the flat metric was clung to at all costs. That's not how
    science should work.

    That's not what happened. That the Universe is at least very close to
    being flat is an observational fact. Other types of universe were
    considered and are ruled out by the data.

    So I think we need some astrophysicists to research how well current observations conform to an open hyperbolic universal metric, without
    any need for dark energy.

    Such models have been ruled out based solely on observations for at
    least a quarter of a century.

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