• Re: Devonian origin of amniotes.

    From x@21:1/5 to erik simpson on Wed May 21 11:58:07 2025
    On 5/14/25 17:01, erik simpson wrote:
    The split between synapsids (us) and sauropsids (reptiles) has generally though to have happened in the Carboniferous ~350 Mya.  New trackways
    found in Australia suggests that the split occurred in the Devonian,
    about 35-40 My earlier.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08884-5

    Earliest amniote tracks recalibrate the timeline of tetrapod evolution

    Abstract
    The known fossil record of crown-group amniotes begins in the late Carboniferous with the sauropsid trackmaker Notalacerta1,2 and the
    sauropsid body fossil Hylonomus1,2,3,4. The earliest body fossils of crown-group tetrapods are mid-Carboniferous, and the oldest trackways
    are early Carboniferous5,6,7. This suggests that the tetrapod crown
    group originated in the earliest Carboniferous (early Tournaisian), with
    the amniote crown group appearing in the early part of the late Carboniferous. Here we present new trackway data from Australia that challenge this widely accepted timeline. A track-bearing slab from the
    Snowy Plains Formation of Victoria, Taungurung Country, securely dated
    to the early Tournaisian8,9, shows footprints from a crown-group amniote
    with clawed feet, most probably a primitive sauropsid. This pushes back
    the likely origin of crown-group amniotes by at least 35–40 million
    years. We also extend the range of Notalacerta into the early
    Carboniferous. The Australian tracks indicate that the amniote
    crown-group node cannot be much younger than the Devonian/Carboniferous boundary, and that the tetrapod crown-group node must be located deep
    within the Devonian; an estimate based on molecular-tree branch lengths suggests an approximate age of early Frasnian for the latter. The implications for the early evolution of tetrapods are profound; all stem-tetrapod and stem-amniote lineages must have originated during the Devonian. It seems that tetrapod evolution proceeded much faster, and
    the Devonian tetrapod record is much less complete, than has been thought.

    So

    Some fish have scales

    All living amphibians do not have sales

    Some reptiles have scales

    Some mammals have hair

    So

    What was the scale, hair, feather situation for these vertebrates?

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  • From Popping Mad@21:1/5 to erik simpson on Sat May 24 15:37:51 2025
    On 5/14/25 8:01 PM, erik simpson wrote:
    The implications for the early evolution of tetrapods are profound; all stem-tetrapod and stem-amniote lineages must have originated during the Devonian. It seems that tetrapod evolution proceeded much faster, and
    the Devonian tetrapod record is much less complete, than has been thought.


    right - you think we know all we need to from a few dozen fossils
    covering more than 100 million years of evolutionary life?

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