is there a common practice, all agree on, to generate
pads (numeric or alphabetic), with two six-sided dices?
Hi,
My suggestion, which is probably "information-theoretically correct"
is to simply base-convert the "base 6" sequence of dice digits to
base required (base 10 or base 26 or any other base) and then delete
the first sign of result (which will be biased, because first sign of
output base - the "zero" of given base - will never appear on first
place).
It is easy to adapt this arbitrary base converter to "dice base" of
digits 1-6 and then get all output bases needed:
https://github.com/zamicol/BaseConverter
Chax Plore wrote:
Hi,
My suggestion, which is probably "information-theoretically correct"
is to simply base-convert the "base 6" sequence of dice digits to
base required (base 10 or base 26 or any other base) and then delete
the first sign of result (which will be biased, because first sign of
output base - the "zero" of given base - will never appear on first
place).
It is easy to adapt this arbitrary base converter to "dice base" of
digits 1-6 and then get all output bases needed:
https://github.com/zamicol/BaseConverter
Hi thanks for your suggestion!
I must admit I do not fully understand, language barrier, but will
translate your steps and see how it works, i.e. if the procedure is
to time consuming; compared to my wooden tiles procedure, or any
other solution, which may come up here.
is there a common practice, all agree on, to generate
pads (numeric or alphabetic), with two six-sided dices?
Stefan Claas <pollux@tilde.club> wrote:
Chax Plore wrote:
Hi,
My suggestion, which is probably "information-theoretically
correct" is to simply base-convert the "base 6" sequence of dice
digits to base required (base 10 or base 26 or any other base) and
then delete the first sign of result (which will be biased,
because first sign of output base - the "zero" of given base -
will never appear on first place).
It is easy to adapt this arbitrary base converter to "dice base"
of digits 1-6 and then get all output bases needed:
https://github.com/zamicol/BaseConverter
Hi thanks for your suggestion!
I must admit I do not fully understand, language barrier, but will translate your steps and see how it works, i.e. if the procedure is
to time consuming; compared to my wooden tiles procedure, or any
other solution, which may come up here.
A six sided die provdes numerals 1 to 6.
This can also be viewed as a "base-6" numeral (0 to 5), scaled by
adding one.
So each dice roll produces one digit of a base-6 numeral. If you
want a four digit base-6 numeral, roll one die four times in a row,
recording each (adjusted by -1 for each roll to aquire numerals 0-5,
made up values below, I did not actually roll a die):
3520 (base-6)
Then, convert to your "base of choice" (6^0 left on for symmetry,
parens added to make the precedence explicit below):
3*(6^3) + 5*(6^2) + 2*(6^1) + 0*(6^0) = 840 (base 10)
Stefan Claas <pollux@tilde.club> wrote:
is there a common practice, all agree on, to generate
pads (numeric or alphabetic), with two six-sided dices?
"common" as in most people are aware of and know about, doubtful,
otherwise some of the few of us left lurking here might "know about
it".
The closest that comes to mind is the diceware password generation
system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diceware
However, do note that if you "sum" the numbers from the roll of two
dice, that the result will have a bias peak at seven. Graphing the
"bias" will look a lot like a statistical normal distribution curve,
with the peak of the graph at seven.
On 3/3/2024 10:38 AM, Stefan Claas wrote:
Hi all,
is there a common practice, all agree on, to generate
pads (numeric or alphabetic), with two six-sided dices?
I saw this here and I like it, but wonder if there is an
agreed standard for rolling two dices, to obtain digits,
from 0-25, or letters from A-Z.
<https://github.com/sa6mwa/krypto431?tab=readme-ov-file#manually-generating-a-key-with-dice>
I ask, because I have now the Diana Cryptosystem in GO
and if users would like to manually generate the pads,
for it. I normally use wooden tiles, for the letters.
Might as well bust out some D&D die. Hex die is a fun one. Put a lot
of hex die in a box. Shake it up.... Cut a little hole in the box and
let out one die at a time.... ;^)
Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
On 3/3/2024 10:38 AM, Stefan Claas wrote:
Hi all,
is there a common practice, all agree on, to generate
pads (numeric or alphabetic), with two six-sided dices?
I saw this here and I like it, but wonder if there is an
agreed standard for rolling two dices, to obtain digits,
from 0-25, or letters from A-Z.
<https://github.com/sa6mwa/krypto431?tab=readme-ov-file#manually-generating-a-key-with-dice>
I ask, because I have now the Diana Cryptosystem in GO and if
users would like to manually generate the pads, for it. I
normally use wooden tiles, for the letters.
Might as well bust out some D&D die. Hex die is a fun one. Put a
lot of hex die in a box. Shake it up.... Cut a little hole in the
box and let out one die at a time.... ;^)
How does a hex die look like? I have not found any reference, via
Google.
Rich wrote:
Stefan Claas <pollux@tilde.club> wrote:
Chax Plore wrote:
Hi,
My suggestion, which is probably "information-theoretically
correct" is to simply base-convert the "base 6" sequence of dice
digits to base required (base 10 or base 26 or any other base) and
then delete the first sign of result (which will be biased,
because first sign of output base - the "zero" of given base -
will never appear on first place).
It is easy to adapt this arbitrary base converter to "dice base"
of digits 1-6 and then get all output bases needed:
https://github.com/zamicol/BaseConverter
Hi thanks for your suggestion!
I must admit I do not fully understand, language barrier, but will
translate your steps and see how it works, i.e. if the procedure is
to time consuming; compared to my wooden tiles procedure, or any
other solution, which may come up here.
A six sided die provdes numerals 1 to 6.
This can also be viewed as a "base-6" numeral (0 to 5), scaled by
adding one.
So each dice roll produces one digit of a base-6 numeral. If you
want a four digit base-6 numeral, roll one die four times in a row,
recording each (adjusted by -1 for each roll to aquire numerals 0-5,
made up values below, I did not actually roll a die):
3520 (base-6)
Then, convert to your "base of choice" (6^0 left on for symmetry,
parens added to make the precedence explicit below):
3*(6^3) + 5*(6^2) + 2*(6^1) + 0*(6^0) = 840 (base 10)
Ah, ok! Now I understand. Thanks for explaining, much appreciated.
Stefan Claas <pollux@tilde.club> wrote:
Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
Might as well bust out some D&D die. Hex die is a fun one. Put a
lot of hex die in a box. Shake it up.... Cut a little hole in
the box and let out one die at a time.... ;^)
How does a hex die look like? I have not found any reference, via
Google.
If Chris means a 16 sided die, hen something approximating these
images:
https://www.diceemporium.com/product-category/16-sided-dice/
Stefan Claas <pollux@tilde.club> writes:
Rich wrote:
I must admit I do not fully understand, language barrier, but
will translate your steps and see how it works, i.e. if the
procedure is to time consuming; compared to my wooden tiles
procedure, or any other solution, which may come up here.
A six sided die provdes numerals 1 to 6.
This can also be viewed as a "base-6" numeral (0 to 5), scaled by
adding one.
So each dice roll produces one digit of a base-6 numeral. If you
want a four digit base-6 numeral, roll one die four times in a
row, recording each (adjusted by -1 for each roll to aquire
numerals 0-5, made up values below, I did not actually roll a die):
3520 (base-6)
Then, convert to your "base of choice" (6^0 left on for symmetry,
parens added to make the precedence explicit below):
3*(6^3) + 5*(6^2) + 2*(6^1) + 0*(6^0) = 840 (base 10)
Ah, ok! Now I understand. Thanks for explaining, much appreciated.
Just a quick side note... Just two dice (or two rolls of one die)
gives you 36 different outcomes. That's neat if you want to generate
English letters and digits. You don't need to do the base conversion
if you just agree on a grid:
| 1 2 3 4 5 6
--+------------
1 | A B C D E F
2 | G H I J K L
3 | M N O P Q R
4 | S T U V W X
5 | Y Z 0 1 2 3
6 | 4 5 6 7 8 9
First roll picks the row, second roll picks the column.
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