As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech, telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech, >telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania).
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:03:41 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech,
telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
Vance would make an excellent #48.
I think that common sense is now called "far right".
As is keeping the electricity on.
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech, telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
On Fri, 14 Feb 2025 18:03:41 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech,
telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
Vance would make an excellent #48.
I think that common sense is now called "far right".
As is keeping the electricity on.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
Big changes to the old post-war order coming fast. Should be *very* >interesting. I've ordered extra beer and popcorn. :-)
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:34:29 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
Big changes to the old post-war order coming fast. Should be *very*
interesting. I've ordered extra beer and popcorn. :-)
I should have posted the URL for the full speech. It's under 20
minutes long and I'm sure Bill will want to see the whole thing. ;-)
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
Big changes to the old post-war order coming fast.
Should be *very* interesting. I've ordered extra beer and popcorn. :-)
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
Big changes to the old post-war order coming fast. Should be *very* >interesting. I've ordered extra beer and popcorn. :-)
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
The history of Europe is millenia of warfare. And it's not over.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:34:29 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
Big changes to the old post-war order coming fast. Should be *very*
interesting. I've ordered extra beer and popcorn. :-)
I should have posted the URL for the full speech. It's under 20
minutes long and I'm sure Bill will want to see the whole thing. ;-)
https://x.com/i/status/1890529020892058055
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious
to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances
were checked?
It certainly worried the other countries in the E.U. and made them
realise what could happen in their elections if they weren't careful.
If an unknown pro-Chinese Communist candidate had won a sweeping victory
in the American presidential election, would everyone have meekly
believed there hadn't been any interference?
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious
to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances
were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:34:29 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but >>>he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
Big changes to the old post-war order coming fast. Should be *very* >>interesting. I've ordered extra beer and popcorn. :-)
When I was working in the USSR, we'd go into a restaurant and ask for
a beer. They'd often snap "Nyet piva" which meant "we don't have beer >tonight." The mind boggles.
Same for things on the menu. Most were actually not available on any
given night.
And nobody wanted to drink the Russian beer anyhow. The Polish and
Czech stuff was OK, if you could get it.
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the
election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious >> > to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances
were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset?
These elections were in Romania, which is a European country on the
borders of Russia and is terrified that they will be in Putin's sights
after Ukraine. The official line is that there was evidence of >'State-sponsored interference' in the elections, but it is obvious which >state is the most likely one.
Vances speech spinning this as some undemocratic cabal blocking a
candidate who was freely elected is utter hypocracy in view of what
happened when Trump was kicked out the last time.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
The history of Europe is millenia of warfare. And it's not over.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 18:41:46 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the >> > election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious >> > to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances >> > were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset?
These elections were in Romania, which is a European country on the
borders of Russia and is terrified that they will be in Putin's sights >after Ukraine. The official line is that there was evidence of >'State-sponsored interference' in the elections, but it is obvious which >state is the most likely one.
Yeah, the usual bogie-man (we're supposed to automatically assume).
The bald fact is that there is not a single Western democracy you
could not claim has been unduly influenced by Russia: not one.
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the nature >of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the case
of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist
if gifted the technology?
Clearly, in conventional warfare he's demonstrated he's not up to
the task (in material or manpower). Keep the plebs happy (or, depressed) >with a continuous flow of Vodka and all will be well. Gray is a
GREAT color, no?
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
And, of course, US administrations change -- often. So, he has no >reassurance that the next won't seek to *bolster* a Europe that has
opted to reinvest in its own defense.
Ooops!
Trump doesn't seem to realise that you can make friends with a bear but
he will still eat you when he wants his next meal.
It seems the bear is toothless and pretty shaggy...
The real issue will be Xi's desire to be The One to reunite the "two chinas". >Without a direct attack on a NATO signatory, any country (e.g., the US) >wishing to oppose that action would have to rely on the Good Will of it's >allies to come to its aid. (I suspect Trump hasn't read Article 5).
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the
election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious >>> to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances
were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset?
These elections were in Romania, which is a European country on the
borders of Russia and is terrified that they will be in Putin's sights
after Ukraine. The official line is that there was evidence of 'State-sponsored interference' in the elections, but it is obvious which state is the most likely one.
Vances speech spinning this as some undemocratic cabal blocking a
candidate who was freely elected is utter hypocracy in view of what
happened when Trump was kicked out the last time.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >> >>kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
I'm sure they will object to being called that, but they may as well
know that's what some of them look like from a lot of countries at the >moment.
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the nature >of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the case
of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist
if gifted the technology?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 20:04:55 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All >>>>> that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
I'm sure they will object to being called that, but they may as well
know that's what some of them look like from a lot of countries at the
moment.
"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."
A Chinese proverb, I think.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to
talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the nature >>of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the case >>of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear >>that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist
if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
I'm sure they will object to being called that, but they may as well
know that's what some of them look like from a lot of countries at the moment.
On 2/15/2025 3:29 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 20:04:55 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed! >>>>>>It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All >>>>>> that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>>>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
I'm sure they will object to being called that, but they may as well
know that's what some of them look like from a lot of countries at the
moment.
"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."
A Chinese proverb, I think.
Sounds like the American philosophy on healthcare
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the nature
of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead of govern. >>>
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the case >>>of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear >>>that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist
if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
work.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 20:04:55 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All >>>>> that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being
called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
I'm sure they will object to being called that, but they may as well
know that's what some of them look like from a lot of countries at the
moment.
"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."
A Chinese proverb, I think.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it
could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
And, of course, US administrations change -- often. So, he has no
reassurance that the next won't seek to *bolster* a Europe that has
opted to reinvest in its own defense.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 18:41:46 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the >>>> election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious >>>> to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances >>>> were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset?
These elections were in Romania, which is a European country on the
borders of Russia and is terrified that they will be in Putin's sights
after Ukraine. The official line is that there was evidence of
'State-sponsored interference' in the elections, but it is obvious which
state is the most likely one.
Yeah, the usual bogie-man (we're supposed to automatically assume).
The bald fact is that there is not a single Western democracy you
could not claim has been unduly influenced by Russia: not one.
You can claim whatever you want and get *any* election voided if you're
going to go down that route - and all on the pretext of "defending democracy." It would be laughable were it not so serious.
Vance's speech spinning this as some undemocratic cabal blocking a
candidate who was freely elected is utter hypocrisy in view of what
happened when Trump was kicked out the last time.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 18:07:21 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:29 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 20:04:55 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 07:55:43 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:07:18 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed! >>>>>>>It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>>>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All >>>>>>> that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the
kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Nice work.
Quite. Hopefully the Trump voters on this forum won't object to being >>>>> called "ignorant, thuggish and self-serving."
I'm sure they will object to being called that, but they may as well
know that's what some of them look like from a lot of countries at the >>>> moment.
"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."
A Chinese proverb, I think.
Sounds like the American philosophy on healthcare
I love my doctor. She wears miniskirts and calls me John. I call her
Sam.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 17:42:01 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
It was clearly aimed at the home market; he was supposed to be there to >>>>> talk about security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the nature
of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead of govern. >>>>
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the case >>>> of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against the >>>>> kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear >>>> that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist
if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
work.
Redundancy is your friend. And Russia can certainly afford it.
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the >>home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the >>nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the
case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear >>that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
work.
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it
could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an
attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled
out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it
could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >> >>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >> >>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >> >>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >> >>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >> >>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >> >>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >> >> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled >> > out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose
in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may
result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push
back on future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a
decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the
economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France
likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we
now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever
came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham)
armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He
thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European
countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member
is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and
Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has
pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose
in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may
result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push
back on future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a
decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the
economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France >> >> >>>>> likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we
now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever
came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham)
armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He
thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European
countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member
is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and
Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has
pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if
there is a next election.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>> >>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>> >>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>> >>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>> >>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it
could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>> >>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>> >>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>> >>>
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >>> >> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled >>> > out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >> >>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >> >>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an
attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled
out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>> >> >>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>> >> >>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>> >> >>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>> >> >>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a
decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the
economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France >>> >> >>>>> likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>> >> >>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>> >> >>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham)
armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He
thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European
countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>> >> >> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>> >> >> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has
pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between >>> >> all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if
there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will
go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect
Vance.
That little
Hitleresque fellow that runs Ukrain seems hell-bent on starting WW3
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the >> >>home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in
Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the
case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear >> >>that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if
gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border,
so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
We need to make ourselves as independent of America as quickly as
possible so as to be free to fight whatever threat appears without being coerced because our food supplies and military equipment depend on doing
what Trump wants. Can you see the present UK polticians taking the lead
and taking the population along with them? It will only happen when
things have become so bad that we are clutchng at straws.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on >>>>>>>>> future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>>>>>
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >>>>> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled >>>> out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on >>>>>>>> future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>>>>
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >>>> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled >>> out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
We need to make ourselves as independent of America as quickly as
possible so as to be free to fight whatever threat appears without being coerced because our food supplies and military equipment depend on doing
what Trump wants.
Can you see the present UK politicians taking the lead
and taking the population along with them?
It will only happen when things have become so bad that we are clutching at straws.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:41:15 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>>>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on >>>>>>>>>> future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it
could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>>>>>>
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >>>>>> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin >>>>>> doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled >>>>> out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between >>>> all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate
the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you, but a welcome one
AFAIC at least.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:57:19 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between >>>>>> all the other countries involved.
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>>>>>>>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>>>>>>>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>>>>>>>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a >>>>>>>>>>> decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the >>>>>>>>>>> economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France >>>>>>>>>>> likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>>>>>>>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>>>>>>>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) >>>>>>>>>> armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He >>>>>>>>> thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European
countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>>>>>>> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>>>>>>> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has >>>>>>> pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one? >>>>>>
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall
apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate >>>>> the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a
radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if
there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will
go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect
Vance.
For once this is something I agree with Bitrex on. JDV would make an *excellent* successor to Trump if his Munich speech is anything to go
by. He's good looking, articulate, and not afraid to look down the
barrel of the would-be New World Order. In short: highly electable.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
It may take another hundred years to civilize the Russians. Or maybe a thousand.
Of course Trump doesn't want Americans to die in yet another stupid
European war. War is bad for business.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:50:19 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member is an >>> attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and Putin
doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has pulled
out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one?
If Ukraine were somehow magically inducted into NATO, the US would immediately withdraw - and you can't blame them. That little
Hitleresque fellow that runs Ukraine seems hell-bent on starting WW3
and Trump - whatever his other faults - does NOT want any more
conflict if it can possibly be avoided. That is an aim that should be applauded, too.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the >>>>> home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the >>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead >>>>> of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear >>>>> that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border,
so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up
to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in
the first place.
All this shit can be traced back to that and it was
entirely predictable. In fact Henry Kissinger explicitly said so at
the time.
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the >>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead >>>>> of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>
work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border,
so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up
to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in
the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours
were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
Of course Trump doesn't want Americans to die in yet another stupid
European war. War is bad for business.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the >>>>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead >>>>>>> of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up
to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in
the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours
were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and quickly enough.
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed >>>>>>> at the home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about >>>>>>> security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is >>>>>>> the nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races >>>>>>> instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is >>>>>>> the case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries >>>>>>>> against the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he >>>>>>>> represents. Fortunately there are still many Americans who are >>>>>>>> not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty >>>>>>> clear that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World >>>>>>> Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes
poses. Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* >>>>>>> exist if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they >>>>>>work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then >>>>> and now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one >>>>> will work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the
border, so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well
inside Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
[...]
Of course Trump doesn't want Americans to die in yet another stupid
European war. War is bad for business.
It depends what business you are in.
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the >>>>>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead >>>>>>>> of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed
at the home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about
security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is >> >>>>>>> the nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races >> >>>>>>> instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is
the case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries
against the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he
represents. Fortunately there are still many Americans who are
not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty >> >>>>>>> clear that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World
Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes
poses. Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* >> >>>>>>> exist if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they
work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then
and now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one >> >>>>> will work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the
border, so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well
inside Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >> >>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >> >>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >> >> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
That's what Putin was banking on us believing, after he had failed at >Blitzkrieg. That threat held us at bay long enough for him to turn the >invasion into a war of attrition, which he had a better chance of
winning.
The outcome of a war of attrition depends on the resources each side can
draw upon, which means the warring parties are entirely dependent on
their friends. Trump withdrawing American assistance isn't a neutral
act, it is positive support for Putin. Europe will suffer the
consequences first - then it will rebound on America.
Quoting you from another post:
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
You predicted that very well: There is a meeting of European heads of
state in Paris today to discuss security in Europe independently of NATO >(i.e. a EUTO).
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed >>>>>>>> at the home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about >>>>>>>> security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It >>>>>>>> is the nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win >>>>>>>> races instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is >>>>>>>> the case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries >>>>>>>>> against the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he >>>>>>>>> represents. Fortunately there are still many Americans who are >>>>>>>>> not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's
pretty clear that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a >>>>>>>> "World Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes >>>>>>>> poses. Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or,
*could* exist if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust. >Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:57:58 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >> > quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >> >>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >> >>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed >> >>>>>>> at the home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about
security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is >> >>>>>>> the nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races >> >>>>>>> instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is >> >>>>>>> the case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries
against the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he >> >>>>>>>> represents. Fortunately there are still many Americans who are
not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty >> >>>>>>> clear that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World >> >>>>>>> Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes
poses. Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* >> >>>>>>> exist if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they
work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then >> >>>>> and now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one >> >>>>> will work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >> >>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the
border, so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well
inside Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >> >>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >> >>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours
were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >> >
Which would have triggered another world war.
That's what Putin was banking on us believing, after he had failed at >Blitzkrieg. That threat held us at bay long enough for him to turn the >invasion into a war of attrition, which he had a better chance of
winning.
The outcome of a war of attrition depends on the resources each side can >draw upon, which means the warring parties are entirely dependent on
their friends. Trump withdrawing American assistance isn't a neutral
act, it is positive support for Putin. Europe will suffer the
consequences first - then it will rebound on America.
Quoting you from another post:
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
You predicted that very well: There is a meeting of European heads of >state in Paris today to discuss security in Europe independently of NATO >(i.e. a EUTO).
Your idol Starmer...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust. >>Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the >>>>>>>> nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead >>>>>>>> of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much
about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust. >>Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
"The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet, >freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 07:45:08 -0800, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust. >>>Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
"The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet, >>freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
My dark suspicion is that Putin's deepest fear is that an independent
Ukraine in the EU will soon become wealthy enough to simply buy the
Kremlin and turn it into a theme park.
Joe
Putin is like Hitler. Suspicious, ambitious, agressive, zenophobic, mass-murderous, incompetant.
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the
election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious
to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances
were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset? Heaven forbid there be COMPETITION... then the incompetence of a candidate might draw
attention!
It certainly worried the other countries in the E.U. and made them
realise what could happen in their elections if they weren't careful.
Elections are always fraught with peril as they assume an educated electorate. When people start thinking solely in terms of "I", then
it's easy to corrupt the vote.
Of course, when their fantasies are never realized, they aren't smart
enough to realize they were duped. And, by then, time has passed
leaving them worse off than before!
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
"The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet, freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 13:43:14 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
If Russia had elected to be a modern peaceful European country, there
would never have been a NATO.
But Stalin was a thug, and Putin is a thug.
On 2025-02-15, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/14/2025 1:26 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
A candidate nobody had ever heard of, who wanted to turn the whole
country over to Putin, suddenly appeared at the last minute and won the
election by an incredibly large majority. Doesn't that sound suspicious >>> to you - and worth putting the result on hold while the circumstances
were checked?
But, isn't that the norm for the Russian mindset? Heaven forbid there be
COMPETITION... then the incompetence of a candidate might draw
attention!
It certainly worried the other countries in the E.U. and made them
realise what could happen in their elections if they weren't careful.
Elections are always fraught with peril as they assume an educated
electorate. When people start thinking solely in terms of "I", then
it's easy to corrupt the vote.
Of course, when their fantasies are never realized, they aren't smart
enough to realize they were duped. And, by then, time has passed
leaving them worse off than before!
And it was ALWAYS someone else's fault :-)
Seeing the clowns that were elected as presidents of
the US these last 60 years or so,
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 13:43:14 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust. >>>Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
If Russia had elected to be a modern peaceful European country, there
would never have been a NATO.
But Stalin was a thug, and Putin is a thug.
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
[...]
Seeing the clowns that were elected as presidents of
the US these last 60 years or so,
Three in particular stand out:
George Washington who couldn't tell a lie.
Richard Nixon who couldn't tell the truth
Donald Trump who couldn't tell the difference.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:37:39 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
[...]
Of course Trump doesn't want Americans to die in yet another stupid
European war. War is bad for business.
It depends what business you are in.
Yeah, you have the arms manufacturers and the politicians that take
bribes from the arms manufacturers for a start.
Great to see Trump ordering the release of all the classified
documents relating to JFK, MLK and Robert Kennedy assassinations. He
promised transparency and he's delivering on it. All the docs on 9/11
will be released in the second wave, which is fantastic for all those
who were never satisfied with the official report, which ignored so
many critical aspects of those attacks. I would hope and indeed
*expect* that this openness is something which all shades of the
political spectrum will welcome. Except Bill Sloman, of course.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:57:58 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed >>>>>>>>>> at the home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about >>>>>>>>>> security in Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is >>>>>>>>>> the nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races >>>>>>>>>> instead of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is >>>>>>>>>> the case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries >>>>>>>>>>> against the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he >>>>>>>>>>> represents. Fortunately there are still many Americans who are >>>>>>>>>>> not like that.
This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty >>>>>>>>>> clear that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World >>>>>>>>>> Power".
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes >>>>>>>>>> poses. Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* >>>>>>>>>> exist if gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they >>>>>>>>> work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then >>>>>>>> and now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one >>>>>>>> will work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the
border, so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well >>>>>>> inside Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
That's what Putin was banking on us believing, after he had failed at
Blitzkrieg. That threat held us at bay long enough for him to turn the
invasion into a war of attrition, which he had a better chance of
winning.
The outcome of a war of attrition depends on the resources each side can
draw upon, which means the warring parties are entirely dependent on
their friends. Trump withdrawing American assistance isn't a neutral
act, it is positive support for Putin. Europe will suffer the
consequences first - then it will rebound on America.
Quoting you from another post:
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
You predicted that very well: There is a meeting of European heads of
state in Paris today to discuss security in Europe independently of NATO
(i.e. a EUTO).
Your idol Starmer has already backtracked on his commitment to
Ukraine. He'll put British army boots on the ground - but only to keep
the peace after the US and Russia have reached a deal. It's quite
right to keep Ukraine out of the discussions. The maggot that runs the
place is a warmonger and a danger to world peace.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 13:43:14 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
If Russia had elected to be a modern peaceful European country, there
would never have been a NATO.
But Stalin was a thug, and Putin is a thug.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries against >>>>>>>>>> the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>This is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside
Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions.
...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and
quickly enough.
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:58:11 -0500, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 07:45:08 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in
Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the
case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if
gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>>> work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
"The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet,
freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
My dark suspicion is that Putin's deepest fear is that an independent
Ukraine in the EU will soon become wealthy enough to simply buy the
Kremlin and turn it into a theme park.
Joe
Putin is like Hitler. Suspicious, ambitious, agressive, zenophobic, mass-murderous, incompetent.
Looks like it's time for another European war.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/02/17/starmer-says-ready-to-deploy-british-troops-in-harms-way-in-ukraine/
Luckily I'm too old to be drafted for this one.
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section
of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being >transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation
has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section
of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical >websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being >transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America >before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section
of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment.
Medical websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being transgender.
Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation
has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in earnest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being
transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section
of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being
transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation
has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their >health care is something we should all be concerned about.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section
of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation
has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:57:27 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder, >>>>> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >>>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being >>>> transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >>>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their
health care is something we should all be concerned about.
Rather closer than that, though, if you were being honest.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being
transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being
transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Very much so;Â politicians driving children to suicide by banning their
health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions of hand wringing.
Somewhat amusingly the idea that a man who looks like a man could easily enter
the same women's bathroom (or a man's bathroom, for that matter) and simply gun
down everyone in there with a high-capacity semiautomatic weapon that he straightforwardly obtained at the high-capacity semiautomatic weapon store down
the street, doesn't seem to cause near the same anxiety, despite it being a far
more regular occurrence. The price of freedom..
On 2/18/2025 8:06 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Very much so;Â politicians driving children to suicide by banning their >>> health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily
enter a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives
even some of my better-educated American relatives and associate into
conniptions of hand wringing.
What's to stop a WOMAN (looking like a woman) from entering a woman's bathroom and engaging in similar activities?
As I said, elsewhere, there are people who are just obsessed with
living in fear and they will move from one "imagined threat" to another
with ease.
Sad that we can't give them something to TRULY fear; perhaps a cancer
eating away at their internal organs, wondering what the next "6 month checkup" will reveal...
On 2/18/2025 10:51 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 2/18/2025 8:06 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Very much so;Â politicians driving children to suicide by banning their >>>> health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter a >>> woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some of my >>> better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions of hand >>> wringing.
What's to stop a WOMAN (looking like a woman) from entering a woman's
bathroom and engaging in similar activities?
As I said, elsewhere, there are people who are just obsessed with
living in fear and they will move from one "imagined threat" to another
with ease.
Sad that we can't give them something to TRULY fear; perhaps a cancer
eating away at their internal organs, wondering what the next "6 month
checkup" will reveal...
Why, hardship tends to just make the habitually cranky/fearful more cranky and
fearful.
"People die as they lived" is what an acquaintance who worked in palliative care once told me, and she'd been with hundreds of people when they died. I've
only been with a couple but it seems to track.
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder, >>>> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being >>> transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter
a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions
of hand wringing.
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder, >> >>>> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >> >>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being >> >>> transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >> >>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their
health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter
a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions
of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a >predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are >using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter
a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions
of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions
of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 08:05:32 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some >>>> of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions >>>> of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
Fundamental tribalism. Genetic competition.
And racism isn't always driven by fear.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:51:47 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are
using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
But that's not what's happening. What we are being asked to swallow is
men who simply "identify" as women being allowed access into all sorts
of areas where they would normally be forbidden.
This is the height of woke madness.
Those kind of people have no legal and medical hoops
they're obliged to go through; they just say: "I'm a woman" and
they're good to go!
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:51:47 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:murder, >> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic. > >
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is >
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole
section > of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment.
Medical > websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their
patients. > > American history is being re-written to erase anyone
suspected of being > transgender. Families with anyone transgender
have been moving away >from certain states for some time, now a
'kindertransport' organisation > has been set up to get transgender
children and adults out of America > before the purges start in
ernest. It's not being publicised in the > gutter press, who are
still printing transphobic rants, but it is > happening - in America
- now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning
their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily
enter a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even
some of my better-educated American relatives and associate into
conniptions of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a >predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all >logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are >using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
But that's not what's happening. What we are being asked to swallow is
men who simply "identify" as women being allowed access into all sorts
of areas where they would normally be forbidden. This is the height of
woke madness. Those kind of people have no legal and medical hoops
they're obliged to go through; they just say: "I'm a woman" and
they're good to go!
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions
of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >> >> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions >> >> of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
If the bigots who are currenly spouting anti-trans rhetoric were to
substitue the word 'black' for 'transgender', their true nature would be
more obvious and fewer people would be fooled.
It may only be a matter of time before they start targeting other
minority groups- then America will have rolled back over 150 years of >civilisation.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:51:47 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >> >> >> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:murder, >> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic. > > >> >> >>Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is >
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole
section > of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment.
Medical > websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their >> >> >>patients. > > American history is being re-written to erase anyone
suspected of being > transgender. Families with anyone transgender
have been moving away >from certain states for some time, now a
'kindertransport' organisation > has been set up to get transgender
children and adults out of America > before the purges start in
ernest. It's not being publicised in the > gutter press, who are
still printing transphobic rants, but it is > happening - in America
- now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning
their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily
enter a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even >> >> some of my better-educated American relatives and associate into
conniptions of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are
using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
But that's not what's happening. What we are being asked to swallow is
men who simply "identify" as women being allowed access into all sorts
of areas where they would normally be forbidden. This is the height of
woke madness. Those kind of people have no legal and medical hoops
they're obliged to go through; they just say: "I'm a woman" and
they're good to go!
Do you know how many times that has happened in countries where >self-identification is allowed? Never - not once - EVER! It is a
completly false scenario conjured up by a right-wing hate groups and
trotted out at regular intervals. Nobody who thinks about it will be
taken in, but it is a very emotive lie guaranteed to get a knee-jerk >reaction.
In the UK there is no chance whatever because anyone is allowed in any
toilet and some toilets are not even designated by sex or gender (just
as in many advanced Europen countries). Where they are nominally
segregated, men can use either toilet and so can women. There are no
gender police, no sex inspections or birth certificate checks at the
door and no chance of women being attacked or thrown out by other women >because they don't look feminine enough (which I understand has happened
in some of the more backwards of the American states).
Women stand far more chance of being attacked by a man in the badly-lit >stairwells of a block of flats and he doesn't have to pose as anything
to do it.
Lots of people will prescribe hormones or
surgery to confused kids.
Some people are genuinely different,
chrosomes or enzymes and such, but the current trans fad is hugely
bigger. Partly driven by smart phones and medical providers and
politics.
And a mediocre male athelete can put on a dress and be instantly a
superstar in girls sports.
There most assuredly *was* at *least* one case where a self-identified "woman" who was convicted of rape was able to get himself sent to a
women's prison where he had a free hand to prey on as many vulnerable
women as he pleased. Understandly it caused a huge outcry in the press
at the time - and not just among Daily Mail readers. So don't try to
deny it.
It's utter lunacy and anyone who attempts to defend it is
likewise mentally-ill.
I...This is a discussion group founded
to deal with aspects of electronic design, not 'trans issues.'
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some >>>> of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions >>>> of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
If the bigots who are currenly spouting anti-trans rhetoric were to
substitue the word 'black' for 'transgender', their true nature would be
more obvious and fewer people would be fooled.
It may only be a matter of time before they start targeting other
minority groups- then America will have rolled back over 150 years of civilisation.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
There most assuredly *was* at *least* one case where a self-identified
"woman" who was convicted of rape was able to get himself sent to a
women's prison where he had a free hand to prey on as many vulnerable
women as he pleased. Understandly it caused a huge outcry in the press
at the time - and not just among Daily Mail readers. So don't try to
deny it.
Yes, something like that did happen. A rapist who had no history of
being trans, but claimed he was trans, was housed for one night in a
separate cell within the 'estate' of a womens' prison while they decided
what to do with him. He had no contact with any of the female inmates
and the next day was transferred to a mens' prison when they decided his >claim was bogus.
Don't believe everything you read in the British press.
It's utter lunacy and anyone who attempts to defend it is
likewise mentally-ill.
I agree - but you have the wrong target. It was utter lunacy on the
part of the prison authorities who were so stupid they didn't realise
what a meal the gutter press would make of it.
[...]
I...This is a discussion group founded
to deal with aspects of electronic design, not 'trans issues.'
Just have a look at the OT heading that started this discussion, you
wrote it. This is only one small branch that followed on from that.
There are about 1.6 million trans people in America, until recently most
of them were hidden and living in fear of their lives. The reason for
an apparent surge is that, with the removal of oppression, the true
numbers are now becoming known.
With the way politics are going, many
will be too afraid to show themselves and then we shall see the recorded numbers decrease and hear the haters saying "See! They were pretending
all along, they don't really exist and it was just a fad.".
When I meet a genuinely trans child, I am left in no doubt - and when I
hear what they have been put through,I feel a deep sense of shame that
anyone could condone doing that to a child in my supposedly civilised country.
Would you deny dental treatment to children until they reach the Age of Majority? The treatment has never been double-blind tested and it could
have life changing consequences if the wrong teeth were extracted.
Perhaps toothache is just a fad and they will grow out of it - unless
they commit suicide first.
More of the nonsense put about by the hate groups. How many sports superstars do you know of that are trans?
Competitive sport is inherently unfair unless you have thousands of micro-categories or a scale of penalties (as in horse racing jockey
weights). Would you ban basketball players descended from tall African tribes, or short, stocky Welsh rugby players of Celtic origin because
they had a genetic advantage? Why pick on trans people?
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 20:01:35 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
There most assuredly *was* at *least* one case where a self-identified
"woman" who was convicted of rape was able to get himself sent to a
women's prison where he had a free hand to prey on as many vulnerable
women as he pleased. Understandly it caused a huge outcry in the press
at the time - and not just among Daily Mail readers. So don't try to
deny it.
Yes, something like that did happen. A rapist who had no history of
being trans, but claimed he was trans, was housed for one night in a >separate cell within the 'estate' of a womens' prison while they decided >what to do with him. He had no contact with any of the female inmates
and the next day was transferred to a mens' prison when they decided his >claim was bogus.
Don't believe everything you read in the British press.
It's utter lunacy and anyone who attempts to defend it is
likewise mentally-ill.
I agree - but you have the wrong target. It was utter lunacy on the
part of the prison authorities who were so stupid they didn't realise
what a meal the gutter press would make of it.
Once again I must disagree. Nothing to do with stupidity/lunacy, but a genuine FEAR on the part of the prison authorities...
... that if they didn't
send this pervert to a women's prison, in accordance with the gender
he'd declared himself to be, there would be a very expensive and
damaging court case arising out of it had they been found to have
violated his human rights.
Fear of legal consequences is what enables
this madness to thrive and the real fault lies with successive
governments for passing stupid/loony legislation which flies in the
face of all reason.
On 2/19/2025 11:40 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>>>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some >>>>> of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions >>>>> of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and >>>> it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a >>>> predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
If the bigots who are currenly spouting anti-trans rhetoric were to
substitue the word 'black' for 'transgender', their true nature would be
more obvious and fewer people would be fooled.
I disagree. I don't see it as "another form of racism". Rather,
it's just the latest "thing to be feared". Another way to draw
a line between "you" and "them". Of course, the assumption is
that the stuff on the YOU side of the line is "better", "more natural", >"correct", etc.
And, to reinforce this, you hunt for arbitrary data that you can spin into
a fairy tale that you can sell to the gullible ("ready to be scared").
In a different but similar vein, I had a discussion with a neighbor
who was claiming we shouldn't use wind power because of all the birds
it kills!
"Should we also ban *cats*? Glass windows (into which birds can
collide)? Insecticides?"
As is commonly the case, they are ignorant of the actual extent of
the IMAGINED problem: exactly how many birds ARE killed by windmills?
how many by household and feral cats? attributed to poisons that
make their way into their digestive systems?
And, are there other remedies that can address this (*these*!) alleged >problem?
It may only be a matter of time before they start targeting other
minority groups- then America will have rolled back over 150 years of
civilisation.
The same neighbor who advocated against windmills vocally supports
deporting all of the illegal immigrants -- "but only the CRIMINALS!"
"Um, if they are in the country without documented permission, haven't
they committed a crime? And, if they have committed *a* crime, aren't
they criminals??"
"Oh, but I don't want the guy who weeds my yard to be deported! *He*
hasn't /killed/ anyone..."
(Oh, so it's only certain criminals that you want to be rid of?
Surely you would be more than willing to pay the increased rate
for a LEGAL resident to pull your weeds, right?)
The palestinian groups (here) are now starting to rethink their
NOT backing Harris (because she wouldn't speak out against
Israel and banning weapon sales). "Did you stop to think
about what the alternative would entail?"
I suspect we'll see them rounded up, soon -- along with other
groups of immigrants that aren't yet legal residents (e.g.,
refugees from Ukraine).
But, hay, wur makin' amerika grate!
My money is on China cleaning Trump's clock. And, he will have
set himself up for it (with all the china bashing). When Xi
decides "now is the time" to reunify Taiwan with Mainland China,
Trump will discover that beating his chest and idle threats
won't do anything to alter the outcome.
And, to his chagrin, the consequences will likely be a meltdown of
global markets.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 18:40:08 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:51:47 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 2/18/2025 5:57 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:murder, >> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic. > > >>>>>>> Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is > >>>>>>> zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole >>>>>>> section > of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. >>>>>>> Medical > websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their >>>>>>> patients. > > American history is being re-written to erase anyone >>>>>>> suspected of being > transgender. Families with anyone transgender >>>>>>> have been moving away >from certain states for some time, now a
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass
'kindertransport' organisation > has been set up to get transgender >>>>>>> children and adults out of America > before the purges start in
ernest. It's not being publicised in the > gutter press, who are >>>>>>> still printing transphobic rants, but it is > happening - in America >>>>>>> - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning
their health care is something we should all be concerned about.
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily
enter a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even >>>>> some of my better-educated American relatives and associate into
conniptions of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and >>>> it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a >>>> predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal >>>> and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on >>>> and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are >>>> using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
But that's not what's happening. What we are being asked to swallow is
men who simply "identify" as women being allowed access into all sorts
of areas where they would normally be forbidden. This is the height of
woke madness. Those kind of people have no legal and medical hoops
they're obliged to go through; they just say: "I'm a woman" and
they're good to go!
Do you know how many times that has happened in countries where
self-identification is allowed? Never - not once - EVER! It is a
completly false scenario conjured up by a right-wing hate groups and
trotted out at regular intervals. Nobody who thinks about it will be
taken in, but it is a very emotive lie guaranteed to get a knee-jerk
reaction.
Sorry, but I'm not having that. I do my best to remain as ignorant as possible about current affairs in the UK since it went down the
shitter and I left many years ago as a consequence.
However, from time
to time I do get to read about what's going on there on the interweb.
There most assuredly *was* at *least* one case where a self-identified "woman" who was convicted of rape was able to get himself sent to a
women's prison where he had a free hand to prey on as many vulnerable
women as he pleased. Understandly it caused a huge outcry in the press
at the time - and not just among Daily Mail readers. So don't try to
deny it. It's utter lunacy and anyone who attempts to defend it is
likewise mentally-ill.
In the UK there is no chance whatever because anyone is allowed in any
toilet and some toilets are not even designated by sex or gender (just
as in many advanced Europen countries). Where they are nominally
segregated, men can use either toilet and so can women. There are no
gender police, no sex inspections or birth certificate checks at the
door and no chance of women being attacked or thrown out by other women
because they don't look feminine enough (which I understand has happened
in some of the more backwards of the American states).
Women stand far more chance of being attacked by a man in the badly-lit
stairwells of a block of flats and he doesn't have to pose as anything
to do it.
I'm not getting into an extended exchange on this subject.
It's wokiness on steroids gone bonkers. This is a discussion group founded
to deal with aspects of electronic design, not 'trans issues.' Now
hopefully we can get back to normal and focus exclusively on something
far more engaging: US politics.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 20:01:35 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
There most assuredly *was* at *least* one case where a self-identified
"woman" who was convicted of rape was able to get himself sent to a
women's prison where he had a free hand to prey on as many vulnerable
women as he pleased. Understandly it caused a huge outcry in the press
at the time - and not just among Daily Mail readers. So don't try to
deny it.
Yes, something like that did happen. A rapist who had no history of
being trans, but claimed he was trans, was housed for one night in a
separate cell within the 'estate' of a womens' prison while they decided
what to do with him. He had no contact with any of the female inmates
and the next day was transferred to a mens' prison when they decided his
claim was bogus.
Don't believe everything you read in the British press.
It's utter lunacy and anyone who attempts to defend it is
likewise mentally-ill.
I agree - but you have the wrong target. It was utter lunacy on the
part of the prison authorities who were so stupid they didn't realise
what a meal the gutter press would make of it.
Once again I must disagree. Nothing to do with stupidity/lunacy, but a genuine FEAR on the part of the prison authorities that if they didn't
send this pervert to a women's prison, in accordance with the gender
he'd declared himself to be, there would be a very expensive and
damaging court case arising out of it had they been found to have
violated his human rights. Fear of legal consequences is what enables
this madness to thrive and the real fault lies with successive
governments for passing stupid/loony legislation which flies in the
face of all reason.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 18:40:08 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>>>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some >>>>> of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions >>>>> of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and >>>> it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a >>>> predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
If the bigots who are currenly spouting anti-trans rhetoric were to
substitue the word 'black' for 'transgender', their true nature would be
more obvious and fewer people would be fooled.
It may only be a matter of time before they start targeting other
minority groups- then America will have rolled back over 150 years of
civilisation.
Puberty is stressful. Lots of people will prescribe hormones or
surgery to confused kids. Some people are genuinely different,
chromosomes or enzymes and such, but the current trans fad is hugely
bigger.
Partly driven by smart phones and medical providers and
politics.
And a mediocre male athelete can put on a dress and be instantly a
superstar in girls sports.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2025 14:27:57 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 11:40 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
But, hay, wur makin' amerika grate!
My money is on China cleaning Trump's clock. And, he will have
set himself up for it (with all the china bashing). When Xi
decides "now is the time" to reunify Taiwan with Mainland China,
Trump will discover that beating his chest and idle threats
won't do anything to alter the outcome.
And, to his chagrin, the consequences will likely be a meltdown of
global markets.
Trump is rightly washing his hands of Ukraine as he wants to focus on
events in the oriental region. He's said as much only days ago.
[I had an argument, this morning, with a friend who frequents the
casinoes. He was claiming that he was "due" for a win -- a BIG win!
He was absolutely clueless about the idea that the machines don't
remember his losses -- so, how could they be "ready" to reward him?]
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[I had an argument, this morning, with a friend who frequents the
casinoes. He was claiming that he was "due" for a win -- a BIG win!
He was absolutely clueless about the idea that the machines don't
remember his losses -- so, how could they be "ready" to reward him?]
As children we were paid pocket money to play fruit machines. They were owned by my grandfather's business and he needed to know what odds were actually coming up, rather then the theoretical odds which might have
been miscalculated.
This meant that, at a very early age, we were all familiar with the
concepts of chance and had no illusions about it. The result was that
none of us had the slightest inclination to start gambling.
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some
of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions
of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
As I've said, there are people who are perpetually afraid. Imagine when
they have something to TRULY fear... they'll shit themselves!
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are
using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
Exactly.
On 2/20/2025 6:50 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[I had an argument, this morning, with a friend who frequents the
casinoes. He was claiming that he was "due" for a win -- a BIG win!
He was absolutely clueless about the idea that the machines don't
remember his losses -- so, how could they be "ready" to reward him?]
As children we were paid pocket money to play fruit machines. They were
owned by my grandfather's business and he needed to know what odds were
actually coming up, rather then the theoretical odds which might have
been miscalculated.
Surprisingly, many people don't understand "odds" vs. "probabilities".
I was hired to make some modifications to a gaming machine and, as
a matter of course, "checked the math" on the "return" calculations
and discovered the stated "odds" were not being fairly implemented
in the code (and, the error was in the players' favor!).
This meant that, at a very early age, we were all familiar with the
concepts of chance and had no illusions about it. The result was that
none of us had the slightest inclination to start gambling.
There must be SOME appeal to it as it is such a common exercise.
I think it allows people to THINK they can beat it (esp things
like sports betting).
Amusing to think that they are naive enough to think someone would
create a product that can be "beaten" -- given that such an
event would come at their expense!
[Of course, there are many ways to "beat" a machine -- but this
is done by exploiting weaknesses in the design, not the algorithms]
This meant that, at a very early age, we were all familiar with the
concepts of chance and had no illusions about it. The result was that
none of us had the slightest inclination to start gambling.
There must be SOME appeal to it as it is such a common exercise.
I think it allows people to THINK they can beat it (esp things
like sports betting).
There were one or two games that had a sufficient element of skill and judgement involved "Penny Falls" being the most common one that I could make a
handsome profit on the 6 coins I started out with. I wouldn't play at all unless I was pretty sure I could win more by doing so.
Apparently called "Coin Pushers" in America I prefer the British name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin_pusher#History
The only problem was the sheer weight of 1" 1p copper coins (back in the good old days when currency was made of valuable non-ferrous metal).
Amusing to think that they are naive enough to think someone would
create a product that can be "beaten" -- given that such an
event would come at their expense!
[Of course, there are many ways to "beat" a machine -- but this
is done by exploiting weaknesses in the design, not the algorithms]
Some had weaknesses in both. I only played machines where I knew there was a weakness. Modern all electronic ones are much harder to beat and I don't bother
trying. Pub Quiz machines were another favourite target.
On 2025-02-19, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/19/2025 3:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
The idea that a man who has the appearance of a woman could easily enter >>>> a woman's bathroom and engage in nefarious activities drives even some >>>> of my better-educated American relatives and associate into conniptions >>>> of hand wringing.
It's a primitive fear that is drummed into women from an early age and
it's not uncommon in men either. As soon as the spectre is raised of a
predatory man being present when you are at your most vulnerable, all
logical thought is suppressed. That is what they are playing on.
And, what was the reason for fearing blacks, mexicans, homosexuals,
etc?
As I've said, there are people who are perpetually afraid. Imagine when
they have something to TRULY fear... they'll shit themselves!
The true "snowflakes" :-)
If a man wanted to spy in women, he would not go through all the legal
and medical hoops of pretending to be transgender, he would just get on
and do it. By conflating predatory men with transgender people they are >>> using this to try to make life intolerable for an already-vulnerable
group of people.
Exactly.
Women stand far more chance of being attacked by a man in the badly-lit
stairwells of a block of flats and he doesn't have to pose as anything
to do it.
I'm not getting into an extended exchange on this subject. It's
wokiness on steroids gone bonkers. This is a discussion group founded
to deal with aspects of electronic design, not 'trans issues.' Now
hopefully we can get back to normal and focus exclusively on something
far more engaging: US politics.
Puberty is stressful. Lots of people will prescribe hormones or
surgery to confused kids. Some people are genuinely different,
chrosomes or enzymes and such, but the current trans fad is hugely
bigger. Partly driven by smart phones and medical providers and
politics.
And a mediocre male athelete can put on a dress and be instantly a
superstar in girls sports.
It was never a good idea. Russia's only warm-water port could have
been blocked if Ukraine had joined NATO and that is something no
country could reasonably be expected to accept.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade.
But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>> > of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>> > could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon
China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe
would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>> > But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>> > of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>> > could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>> > China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>> > would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries, >>one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of "Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder,
and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section
of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being
transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation
has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their >health care is something we should all be concerned about.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:57:27 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 08:47:53 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Putin is nothing like Hitler. He's got no enthusiasm for mass murder, >>>>> and there's no obvious evidence that he is zenophobic.
Have you seen what he is doing to transgender people? That is
zenophobia by another name and is an attempt to kill off a whole section >>>> of the population by withdrawing needed medical treatment. Medical
websites have been closed to prevent doctors treating their patients.
American history is being re-written to erase anyone suspected of being >>>> transgender. Families with anyone transgender have been moving away
from certain states for some time, now a 'kindertransport' organisation >>>> has been set up to get transgender children and adults out of America
before the purges start in ernest. It's not being publicised in the
gutter press, who are still printing transphobic rants, but it is
happening - in America - now.
Subject close to your heart, is it?
Very much so; politicians driving children to suicide by banning their
health care is something we should all be concerned about.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11063965/
Results
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not (3.47% vs. 0.29%,
RR 95% CI 9.20-15.96, p < 0.0001).
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:58:42 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
Britain did declare war on Germany.
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech, telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:58:42 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
Britain did declare war on Germany.
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:58:42 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
Britain did declare war on Germany.
What!???
Germany invaded another countrywhich was protected by international >agreements. It didn't have to do it and it knew that it would be at war
if it did. The same thing happened in Ukraine, only we were too
spineless to uphold the agreement this time; now we are reaping the
reward.
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated
with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>> > But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>> > of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>> > could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>> > China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>> > would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries, >>>one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
Russian promises seem to be only slightly more reliable than Russian >ultimatums.
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:58:42 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly
- wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A
novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
Britain did declare war on Germany.
What!???
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts ><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated >>with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person, so should stay off
social media and advertising their status to said right-wing idiots.
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
But most cancers were dependably fatal. And now many cancers are
routinely curable. Some in minutes. And cancer surgery is based on
sound medical practice.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts ><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated >>with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person, so should stay off
social media and advertising their status to said right-wing idiots.
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
But most cancers were dependably fatal. And now many cancers are
routinely curable. Some in minutes. And cancer surgery is based on
sound medical practice.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in
that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result
in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >> >>> > But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >> >>> > of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >> >>> > could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >> >>> > China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >> >>> > would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks
he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
That's the practical reality - and the rest of Europe will be in Putin's >sights if we don't wake up to what is going on.
Friedrich Merz, one of the German election candidates (tipped to win if
he can keep a coalition together) has at last spoken out with a
realistic description of the situation we are now in. We have relied on >America too much and now America under trump is no longer our friend; he >thinks he can do a deal with Putin and they will carve up Europe between >them. Europe will not be consulted but will be expected to fall in with >these plans.
I may not agree with all Merz stands for, but he is the first politician
I have heard speaking out with the truth.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:37:39 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
[...]
Of course Trump doesn't want Americans to die in yet another stupid
European war. War is bad for business.
It depends what business you are in.
Yeah, you have the arms manufacturers and the politicians that take
bribes from the arms manufacturers for a start.
Great to see Trump ordering the release of all the classified
documents relating to JFK, MLK and Robert Kennedy assassinations. He
promised transparency and he's delivering on it. All the docs on 9/11
will be released in the second wave, which is fantastic for all those
who were never satisfied with the official report, which ignored so
many critical aspects of those attacks. I would hope and indeed
*expect* that this openness is something which all shades of the
political spectrum will welcome. Except Bill Sloman, of course.
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
[...]
Putin is like Hitler. Suspicious, ambitious, agressive, zenophobic,
mass-murderous, incompetant.
One ray of hope: he isn't as young as Hitler and neither is Trump.
On the negative side, if both of them died tomorrow, they would be
replaced by more thugs who are supporting them whilst waiting in the
wings.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 10:25:09 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:58:42 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
War has a heavy price in blood and treasure and Trump - quite rightly >>>>> - wishes to avoid such expendiiture if it can possibly be avoided. A >>>>> novel standpoint for a US president, I grant you,
Not exactly novel, America didn't get involved in WWII until December
1941. Britain had already been fighting for over 2 years by then.
Britain did declare war on Germany.
What!???
Germany invaded another country which was protected by international
agreements. It didn't have to do it and it knew that it would be at war
if it did. The same thing happened in Ukraine, only we were too
spineless to uphold the agreement this time; now we are reaping the
reward.
Amazing how much confusion there is over this. The bald facts were
that Germany invaded Poland. Britain gave Germany an ultimatum to
withdraw, which Germany ignored. Chamberlain then announced that as a
result of that failure, Britain was at war with Germany.
You can dress it up however you like, but that *was* a formal
declaration of war by Britain and John is quite correct.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 08:31:47 -0800, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Not defending bullies or bullying, but the fact of the matter is that
people who are bullied when they're young often go on to great things.
Look on it as character-building if you will. And empowering.
There was some saying I can't quite bring to mind about all the major wars being won on the playing fields of Eton. Obviously Bill Sloman will disagree, but that's just Bill, and his counsel may be safely ignored.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:58:40 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
Russian promises seem to be only slightly more reliable than Russian
ultimatums.
All that conveniently ignores the fact that there were Ukrainian Nazis attacking Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine (organized Nazis in Nazi uniforms that is) and the Dwarf in green fatigues did *nothing* to
prevent that.
He brought this all on himself and the country he was
supposed to be leading and now he's *demanding* the rest of the world
save his arse. I say to hell with him. I don't like his attitude for a
start.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:31:44 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on >>>>>>>> future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>>>>
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
That's the practical reality - and the rest of Europe will be in Putin's
sights if we don't wake up to what is going on.
Friedrich Merz, one of the German election candidates (tipped to win if
he can keep a coalition together) has at last spoken out with a
realistic description of the situation we are now in. We have relied on
America too much and now America under trump is no longer our friend; he
thinks he can do a deal with Putin and they will carve up Europe between
them. Europe will not be consulted but will be expected to fall in with
these plans.
I may not agree with all Merz stands for, but he is the first politician
I have heard speaking out with the truth.
Even friends get tired of always picking up the bar tab.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 13:38:55 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 10:37:39 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
[...]
Of course Trump doesn't want Americans to die in yet another stupid
European war. War is bad for business.
It depends what business you are in.
Yeah, you have the arms manufacturers and the politicians that take
bribes from the arms manufacturers for a start.
Preparing for war is great business. Actually doing it generally
isn't.
Great to see Trump ordering the release of all the classified
documents relating to JFK, MLK and Robert Kennedy assassinations. He
promised transparency and he's delivering on it. All the docs on 9/11
will be released in the second wave, which is fantastic for all those
who were never satisfied with the official report, which ignored so
many critical aspects of those attacks. I would hope and indeed
*expect* that this openness is something which all shades of the
political spectrum will welcome. Except Bill Sloman, of course.
I want to see the Epstein friends list. I assume all his videos have
been destroyed.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated >>with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person,
so should stay off social media and advertising their status to said right-wing idiots.
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
But most cancers were dependably fatal. And now many cancers are
routinely curable. Some in minutes. And cancer surgery is based on
sound medical practice.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:31:44 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>> >>he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he
hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>> >>> >> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>> >>> >> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on
future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>> >>> > But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse
of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it
could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>> >>> > China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>> >>> > would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>> >>
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of
"Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
That's the practical reality - and the rest of Europe will be in Putin's >>sights if we don't wake up to what is going on.
Friedrich Merz, one of the German election candidates (tipped to win if
he can keep a coalition together) has at last spoken out with a
realistic description of the situation we are now in. We have relied on >>America too much and now America under trump is no longer our friend; he >>thinks he can do a deal with Putin and they will carve up Europe between >>them. Europe will not be consulted but will be expected to fall in with >>these plans.
I may not agree with all Merz stands for, but he is the first politician
I have heard speaking out with the truth.
Even friends get tired of always picking up the bar tab.
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts >><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
No comment here?
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated >>>with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person,
The leaders over there are passing laws and issuing directives
that explicty target them in person.
so should stay off social media and advertising their status to said right-wing idiots.
Next it will be blacks, jews and immigrants.
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
You heard it here! apparently Tim Cook is turning Americans gay!
atleast accrding to John Larkin.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
But most cancers were dependably fatal. And now many cancers are
routinely curable. Some in minutes. And cancer surgery is based on
sound medical practice.
There's hope for you yet. Sometimes you're capable of identifying a
bad argument when it is explicitly pointed out. But you appear to
be doubling down on your obvously flawed interpretation of the study you >cited.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
It seems like you want to make a traumatic time even more traumatic.
What it your justification for this trasvesty?
See "No comment here?" above. Your "evidence" is flawed, but your
emotional arguments are still strong. What is yuor goal with this?
Is it turning trans people into teen suicides? I know childhood is a >dangerous time in third-world counties and the USA, bur is this
really what you want?
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts >><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
No comment here?
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated >>>with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person,
The leaders over there are passing laws and issuing directives
that explicty target them in person.
so should stay off social media and advertising their status to said right-wing idiots.
Next it will be blacks, jews and immigrants.
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
You heard it here! apparently Tim Cook is turning Americans gay!
atleast accrding to John Larkin.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
But most cancers were dependably fatal. And now many cancers are
routinely curable. Some in minutes. And cancer surgery is based on
sound medical practice.
There's hope for you yet. Sometimes you're capable of identifying a
bad argument when it is explicitly pointed out. But you appear to
be doubling down on your obvously flawed interpretation of the study you >cited.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
It seems like you want to make a traumatic time even more traumatic.
What it your justification for this trasvesty?
See "No comment here?" above. Your "evidence" is flawed, but your
emotional arguments are still strong. What is yuor goal with this?
Is it turning trans people into teen suicides? I know childhood is a >dangerous time in third-world counties and the USA, bur is this
really what you want?
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 19:40:03 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2025 10:31:44 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-16, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 12:48:17 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He thinks >>>>>> he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European countries,
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose in >>>>>>>>> that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may result >>>>>>>>> in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push back on >>>>>>>>> future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a decade. >>>>>>>> But there's no money available. Germany - once the economic powerhouse >>>>>>>> of the continent - is on its knees and France likewise. And even if it >>>>>>>> could be afforded - which it can't - we now know Putin can call upon >>>>>>>> China and N. Korea, so if push ever came to shove, continental Europe >>>>>>>> would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) armour. >>>>>>
one-by-one.
It may be a practical reality that Ukraine has to give up a slice of >>>>> "Russian speaking" territory to end the killing on both sides.
They gave up their nukes in 1994, and peace was promised,
That didn't work.
They gave up Crimea in 2014, and peace was promised.
That didn't work.
I really don't think they want more of the same. no matter how many
stupid people propose it.
That's the practical reality - and the rest of Europe will be in Putin's >>> sights if we don't wake up to what is going on.
Friedrich Merz, one of the German election candidates (tipped to win if
he can keep a coalition together) has at last spoken out with a
realistic description of the situation we are now in. We have relied on >>> America too much and now America under trump is no longer our friend; he >>> thinks he can do a deal with Putin and they will carve up Europe between >>> them. Europe will not be consulted but will be expected to fall in with >>> these plans.
I may not agree with all Merz stands for, but he is the first politician >>> I have heard speaking out with the truth.
Even friends get tired of always picking up the bar tab.
The only reason the EU countries have been able to afford their
public-funded healthcare systems is because they've saved a fortune
from neglecting defense expenditure for so many decades.
If they're serious about funding their own defense and wish to make
it credible, they're going to have to sacrifice much of what they've
taken for granted since the end of WW2.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 06:52:19 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 04:41:11 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2025-02-22, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Individuals who underwent gender-affirming surgery had a 12.12-fold
higher suicide attempt risk than those who did not
That 1s an example of how to lie using statistics, instead compare those who had the
surgery against those who were refused it.
No comment here?
It is well known that certain right wing idiots like to bully
transgender people, and also well known that being bullied is correlated >>>> with suicide. This is perhaps a partial explanation of why risk is
sill elevated after the surgery.
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person,
The leaders over there are passing laws and issuing directives
that explicty target them in person.
so should stay off social media and advertising their status to said right-wing idiots.
Next it will be blacks, jews and immigrants.
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
You heard it here! apparently Tim Cook is turning Americans gay!
atleast accrding to John Larkin.
A similarly bad agument (to yours{?} above) could be made that those who had surgery to remove
cancers are more likely to die of cancer, than those were not given
that surgery (since not dignosed with cancer).
But most cancers were dependably fatal. And now many cancers are
routinely curable. Some in minutes. And cancer surgery is based on
sound medical practice.
There's hope for you yet. Sometimes you're capable of identifying a
bad argument when it is explicitly pointed out. But you appear to
be doubling down on your obvously flawed interpretation of the study you
cited.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
It seems like you want to make a traumatic time even more traumatic.
What it your justification for this trasvesty?
See "No comment here?" above. Your "evidence" is flawed, but your
emotional arguments are still strong. What is yuor goal with this?
Is it turning trans people into teen suicides? I know childhood is a
dangerous time in third-world counties and the USA, bur is this
really what you want?
When I was growing up back in more sane times, there were no 'trans
kids' - they simply didn't exist.
The only hermaphrodites we encountered were the toads in school science labs.
We had no 'transkids' and no child suicides either. NONE. Coincidence?
A trans person is unlikely to be bullied in person
If more people would stop staring at their phones all day, being
"social", there would be far fewer "trans" people. Factor of 10
roughly.
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get
access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to
read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save
their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text
processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a
syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
Let physically normal kids work their way through puberty before we
apply irreversable chemical or surgical procedures.
That is disgraceful on two counts:
Firstly, trans children are physically normal, so are black children, homosexual children and left-handed children. You obviousl don't
understand the subject at all and swallow the nonsense *and the vile language* put out by the hate groups.
... allowing the wrong puberty isn't a neutral act, it is
condemning the child to at least ten years of medical treatment,
including operations, to try to correct something that could easily
have been prevented. If there is any doubt whether a child is trans,
use puberty blockers to delay puberty until the child is mature enough
to be certain. With most trans children, there is no doubt, so puberty blockers aren't needed.
On 17/02/2025 5:12 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:57:19 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between >>>>>>> all the other countries involved.
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>>>>>>>>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>>>>>>>>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>>>>>>>>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US.
Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a >>>>>>>>>>>> decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the >>>>>>>>>>>> economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France >>>>>>>>>>>> likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>>>>>>>>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>>>>>>>>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) >>>>>>>>>>> armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He >>>>>>>>>> thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European >>>>>>>>>> countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>>>>>>>> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>>>>>>>> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has >>>>>>>> pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one? >>>>>>>
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall >>>>>> apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate >>>>>> the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a >>>>> radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if
there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will
go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect
Vance.
For once this is something I agree with Bitrex on. JDV would make an
*excellent* successor to Trump if his Munich speech is anything to go
by. He's good looking, articulate, and not afraid to look down the
barrel of the would-be New World Order. In short: highly electable.
His unwillingness to say that Trump lost the 2020 election may cost him
the support of some voters.
The US is remarkably tolerant of criminally corrupt politicians, but
there are limits.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
In article <voqh85$45vh$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get
access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to
read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save >>their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text
processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a
syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
I'm following a course in Chinese. The language is sufficiently
different that pin-yin doesn't really help, that means it cannot
be a replacement for Chinese characters.
There are too much homonyms. Say 80000 characters and about 100 >pronunciations available. If you express "know" , you use "ren-shi" in >speaking. Each of these halves mean "know", but each halve is only disambiguous
in writing. The combination makes it more or less disambiguous in
speaking.
Pin-yin can help. You type in "ma" and press function key 3.
A computer looks up probable words with the 3th tone
in order of plausibility. Plausibly words are presented in
order of probability, so you arrive at the character for
horse expeditiously.
A famous example is a poem that consist of a few dozen qi.
It is a story about a man named qi who eats (qi) 9 (qi)
lions (qi).
You can bet that this is incomprehensible for a born Chinese,
unless it is written.
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Groetjes Albert
In article <vou7gl$rm6g$3@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:12 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:57:19 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between >>>>>>>> all the other countries involved.
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>>>>>>>>>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a >>>>>>>>>>>>> decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the >>>>>>>>>>>>> economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France >>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>>>>>>>>>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) >>>>>>>>>>>> armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He >>>>>>>>>>> thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European >>>>>>>>>>> countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>>>>>>>>> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>>>>>>>>> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has >>>>>>>>> pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one? >>>>>>>>
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall >>>>>>> apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate >>>>>>> the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a >>>>>> radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if >>>>> there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will >>>> go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect >>>> Vance.
For once this is something I agree with Bitrex on. JDV would make an
*excellent* successor to Trump if his Munich speech is anything to go
by. He's good looking, articulate, and not afraid to look down the
barrel of the would-be New World Order. In short: highly electable.
His unwillingness to say that Trump lost the 2020 election may cost him
the support of some voters.
The US is remarkably tolerant of criminally corrupt politicians, but
there are limits.
The cost of eggs is still up. That is the reason and some, that Trump
will not have the support of the legislative soon.
The USA-ans are wood headed, but bankrupting agriculture, grandma
dying for lack of drugs, more inflation because of tariffs will hollow
out MAGA.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Groetjes Albert
In article <voqh85$45vh$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get
access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to
read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save >>their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text
processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a
syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
I'm following a course in Chinese. The language is sufficiently
different that pin-yin doesn't really help, that means it cannot
be a replacement for Chinese characters.
There are too much homonyms. Say 80000 characters and about 100 >pronunciations available. If you express "know" , you use "ren-shi" in >speaking. Each of these halves mean "know", but each halve is only disambiguous
in writing. The combination makes it more or less disambiguous in
speaking.
Pin-yin can help. You type in "ma" and press function key 3.
A computer looks up probable words with the 3th tone
in order of plausibility. Plausibly words are presented in
order of probability, so you arrive at the character for
horse expeditiously.
A famous example is a poem that consist of a few dozen qi.
It is a story about a man named qi who eats (qi) 9 (qi)
lions (qi).
You can bet that this is incomprehensible for a born Chinese,
unless it is written.
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Groetjes Albert
In article <vou7gl$rm6g$3@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:12 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:57:19 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between >>>>>>>> all the other countries involved.
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>>>>>>>>>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a >>>>>>>>>>>>> decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the >>>>>>>>>>>>> economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France >>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>>>>>>>>>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) >>>>>>>>>>>> armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He >>>>>>>>>>> thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European >>>>>>>>>>> countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>>>>>>>>> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>>>>>>>>> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has >>>>>>>>> pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one? >>>>>>>>
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall >>>>>>> apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate >>>>>>> the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a >>>>>> radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if >>>>> there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will >>>> go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect >>>> Vance.
For once this is something I agree with Bitrex on. JDV would make an
*excellent* successor to Trump if his Munich speech is anything to go
by. He's good looking, articulate, and not afraid to look down the
barrel of the would-be New World Order. In short: highly electable.
His unwillingness to say that Trump lost the 2020 election may cost him
the support of some voters.
The US is remarkably tolerant of criminally corrupt politicians, but
there are limits.
The cost of eggs is still up. That is the reason and some, that Trump
will not have the support of the legislative soon.
The USA-ans are wood headed, but bankrupting agriculture, grandma
dying for lack of drugs, more inflation because of tariffs will hollow
out MAGA.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
In article <voqh85$45vh$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get
access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to
read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save >>>their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text >>>processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a >>>syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
I'm following a course in Chinese. The language is sufficiently
different that pin-yin doesn't really help, that means it cannot
be a replacement for Chinese characters.
There are too much homonyms. Say 80000 characters and about 100 >>pronunciations available. If you express "know" , you use "ren-shi" in >>speaking. Each of these halves mean "know", but each halve is only disambiguous
in writing. The combination makes it more or less disambiguous in
speaking.
Pin-yin can help. You type in "ma" and press function key 3.
A computer looks up probable words with the 3th tone
in order of plausibility. Plausibly words are presented in
order of probability, so you arrive at the character for
horse expeditiously.
A famous example is a poem that consist of a few dozen qi.
It is a story about a man named qi who eats (qi) 9 (qi)
lions (qi).
You can bet that this is incomprehensible for a born Chinese,
unless it is written.
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Groetjes Albert
No wonder they're all learning English!
...Trump knows *exactly* what he's doing. There are two pivotal
strengths he has: 1. He's a businessman and 2. a hard bargainer. He'll
get what he wants and there will be no on-going hardship for
Americans. Warm, sun-dappled uplands await them.
The cost of eggs is still up.
That is the reason and some, that Trump
will not have the support of the legislative soon.
The USA-ans are wood headed, but bankrupting agriculture, grandma
dying for lack of drugs, more inflation because of tariffs will hollow
out MAGA.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
Trans women are bullied all their lives: rejected by their familues, discriminated against for employment, bullied at school for being too 'girly', bullied in the street for not being 'womanly' enough and
bullied by pseudo-feminists for daring to 'be' at all. Now, in America,
they are being bullied by laws drafted by ignorant bigots in the hope of driving them out of existence.
Trans people exist, they are about 0.5% of the population and that isn't likely to change. Nobody can be 'transed' and nobody can be
'de-transed', it is a normal human condition like left-handedness or
ginger hair. Mobile 'phones don't cause it and it doesn't cause
plagues, earthquakes or crop failure - so tell your politicians to stop 'witch-burning'.
Secondly, allowing the wrong puberty isn't a neutral act, it is
condemning the child to at least ten years of medical treatment,
including operations, to try to correct something that could easily
have been prevented. If there is any doubt whether a child is trans,
use puberty blockers to delay puberty until the child is mature enough
to be certain. With most trans children, there is no doubt, so puberty blockers aren't needed.
On 2/23/2025 6:42 AM, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
There is also an unspoken value associated with "difficult
situations"; folks who master them are far more likely
to CLING to them (due to their investment).
E.g., more tolerant faiths tend to see less zealotry than
those that impose strict rules on conduct, worship, etc.
[Sadly, I can't recall the reference for this; it was
an interesting revelation, at the time!]
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
Educated people are harder to sway with emotion. And,
more likely to "think for themselves".
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype
machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
...Trump knows *exactly* what he's doing.
There are two pivotal
strengths he has: 1. He's a businessman and 2. a hard bargainer. He'll
get what he wants and there will be no on-going hardship for
Americans. Warm, sun-dappled uplands await them.
Sieg heil ! ...and will he make the trains run on time?
Trump is gambling that he can delay the (electorate-)significant consequences of his actions "long enough".
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:29:44 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype
machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
I can see a new-to-me word and say it about right, enough that other
people will usually recognize it and can write it down.
granbazzle
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 17:32:51 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
In article <voqh85$45vh$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get >>>>access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to >>>>read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save >>>>their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text >>>>processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a >>>>syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
I'm following a course in Chinese. The language is sufficiently
different that pin-yin doesn't really help, that means it cannot
be a replacement for Chinese characters.
There are too much homonyms. Say 80000 characters and about 100 >>>pronunciations available. If you express "know" , you use "ren-shi" in >>>speaking. Each of these halves mean "know", but each halve is only disambiguous
in writing. The combination makes it more or less disambiguous in >>>speaking.
Pin-yin can help. You type in "ma" and press function key 3.
A computer looks up probable words with the 3th tone
in order of plausibility. Plausibly words are presented in
order of probability, so you arrive at the character for
horse expeditiously.
A famous example is a poem that consist of a few dozen qi.
It is a story about a man named qi who eats (qi) 9 (qi)
lions (qi).
You can bet that this is incomprehensible for a born Chinese,
unless it is written.
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Groetjes Albert
No wonder they're all learning English!
Everyone should learn English. Most of the european engineers and
scientists that I meet do.
Datasheets are mostly in mostly-readable English, but layouts seem to
follow local practice, things like table of contents last.
Reading some data sheets is like reading some old mystery novel,
trying to put the pieces together from scattered clues.
I'd imagine one could be a consultant who cleans up datasheets for a
living.
On 2/23/2025 6:42 AM, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
There is also an unspoken value associated with "difficult
situations"; folks who master them are far more likely
to CLING to them (due to their investment).
E.g., more tolerant faiths tend to see less zealotry than
those that impose strict rules on conduct, worship, etc.
[Sadly, I can't recall the reference for this; it was
an interesting revelation, at the time!]
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
Educated people are harder to sway with emotion. And,
more likely to "think for themselves". This is not
A Good Thing if you want to manipulate or control them!
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[...]
Trump is gambling that he can delay the (electorate-)significant consequences
of his actions "long enough".
You are assuming that he will allow a election to depose him. He may
not need to challenge the result of the next election because there may
not be one.
On 2/23/25 23:03, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:29:44 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype
machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
I can see a new-to-me word and say it about right, enough that other
people will usually recognize it and can write it down.
granbazzle
English place names keep tripping me up.
"Cholmondeley".
Jeroen Belleman
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[...]
Trump is gambling that he can delay the (electorate-)significant consequences
of his actions "long enough".
You are assuming that he will allow a election to depose him. He may
not need to challenge the result of the next election because there may
not be one.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 23:46:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 23:03, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:29:44 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote: >>>>>[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype >>>>> machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to >>>>> use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
I can see a new-to-me word and say it about right, enough that other
people will usually recognize it and can write it down.
granbazzle
English place names keep tripping me up.
"Cholmondeley".
Jeroen Belleman
Nobody can pronounce that.
My favorite fictitious English town is Loose Chippings.There’s a real one called Little Snoring.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 23:46:24 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 23:03, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:29:44 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote: >>>>>[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype >>>>> machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to >>>>> use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
I can see a new-to-me word and say it about right, enough that other
people will usually recognize it and can write it down.
granbazzle
English place names keep tripping me up.
"Cholmondeley".
Jeroen Belleman
Nobody can pronounce that.
My favorite fictitious English town is Loose Chippings.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 19:48:13 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
...Trump knows *exactly* what he's doing.
Well, nobody does that. But he has common sense, a good start.
There are two pivotal
strengths he has: 1. He's a businessman and 2. a hard bargainer. He'll
get what he wants and there will be no on-going hardship for
Americans. Warm, sun-dappled uplands await them.
Sieg heil ! ...and will he make the trains run on time?
He wants to kill the absurd, bloated California High Speed Rail
project. Rightly so.
Another good one is “Featherstonehaugh†(*)
My favorite fictitious English town is Loose Chippings.There’s a real one called Little Snoring.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(*) Pronounced “Fanshawâ€.
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 01:14:55 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs wrote:
<snip>
Another good one is “Featherstonehaugh” (*)
My favorite fictitious English town is Loose Chippings.There’s a real one called Little Snoring.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(*) Pronounced “Fanshaw”.
Some real towns:
Cukcoo, Va
Short Pump, Va
Frog Level, Va
Jim
In article <voqh85$45vh$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get
access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to
read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save
their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text
processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a
syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
I'm following a course in Chinese. The language is sufficiently
different that pin-yin doesn't really help, that means it cannot
be a replacement for Chinese characters.
There are too much homonyms. Say 80000 characters and about 100 pronunciations available. If you express "know" , you use "ren-shi" in speaking. Each of these halves mean "know", but each halve is only disambiguous
in writing. The combination makes it more or less disambiguous in
speaking.
Pin-yin can help. You type in "ma" and press function key 3.
A computer looks up probable words with the 3th tone
in order of plausibility. Plausibly words are presented in
order of probability, so you arrive at the character for
horse expeditiously.
A famous example is a poem that consist of a few dozen qi.
It is a story about a man named qi who eats (qi) 9 (qi)
lions (qi).
You can bet that this is incomprehensible for a born Chinese,
unless it is written.
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype
machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
In article <voqh85$45vh$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
<SNIP>
China has had to cope with a truly terrible writing system. To get
access to Western technology they've had to train a lot of people to
read an alphabetic (phoneme-based) writing systems, and it may yet save
their bacon, but it's a pretty recent change. Computerised text
processing may be starting to help them cope with the defects of a
syllable based writing system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Written_Chinese
I'm following a course in Chinese. The language is sufficiently
different that pin-yin doesn't really help, that means it cannot
be a replacement for Chinese characters.
There are too much homonyms. Say 80000 characters and about 100
pronunciations available. If you express "know" , you use "ren-shi" in
speaking. Each of these halves mean "know", but each halve is only disambiguous
in writing. The combination makes it more or less disambiguous in
speaking.
Pin-yin can help. You type in "ma" and press function key 3.
A computer looks up probable words with the 3th tone
in order of plausibility. Plausibly words are presented in
order of probability, so you arrive at the character for
horse expeditiously.
A famous example is a poem that consist of a few dozen qi.
It is a story about a man named qi who eats (qi) 9 (qi)
lions (qi).
You can bet that this is incomprehensible for a born Chinese,
unless it is written.
The upside is probably that Chinese children
are more challenged to master the Chinese language,
so they become more intelligent.
It helps that their government is pouring money in education,
instead of abolishing the department of education.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Groetjes Albert
No wonder they're all learning English!
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:54:23 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
In article <vou7gl$rm6g$3@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:12 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:57:19 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France
likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>>>>>>>>>>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) >>>>>>>>>>>>> armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He >>>>>>>>>>>> thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European >>>>>>>>>>>> countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>>>>>>>>>> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>>>>>>>>>> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has >>>>>>>>>> pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one? >>>>>>>>>
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall >>>>>>>> apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate >>>>>>>> the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a >>>>>>> radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if >>>>>> there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will >>>>> go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect >>>>> Vance.
For once this is something I agree with Bitrex on. JDV would make an
*excellent* successor to Trump if his Munich speech is anything to go
by. He's good looking, articulate, and not afraid to look down the
barrel of the would-be New World Order. In short: highly electable.
His unwillingness to say that Trump lost the 2020 election may cost him
the support of some voters.
The US is remarkably tolerant of criminally corrupt politicians, but
there are limits.
The cost of eggs is still up. That is the reason and some, that Trump
will not have the support of the legislative soon.
The USA-ans are wood headed, but bankrupting agriculture, grandma
dying for lack of drugs, more inflation because of tariffs will hollow
out MAGA.
Tbe USA is almost 4 million square miles. 50 states. We invent most of
the useful stuff on Earth and periodically stop World Wars that
Europeans start. And the skiing is excellent.
Eggs are coming down in price too... there are lots around. Half the
problem was buyer panic, which ends when people have a fridge full of 24-packs. Same thing happened a while back with toilet paper.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:54:23 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
In article <vou7gl$rm6g$3@dont-email.me>,
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:12 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 08:57:19 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:49:24 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 16:32:32 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 12:50 am, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:Trump pulling America out of NATO won't destroy the agreements between
On 16/02/2025 11:48 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 16/02/2025 6:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
<snip>
So, if he was afraid of having a NATO Ukraine on his border, he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't yet realized what a threat a re-ARMED Europe would pose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that same geographical position. Trump's trash talking may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in a EUTO (without the US) that feels empowered to push >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back on future issues without "consent" from the US. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Getting Europe's military up to the job would take at least a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decade. But there's no money available. Germany - once the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> economic powerhouse of the continent - is on its knees and France
likewise. And even if it could be afforded - which it can't - we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> now know Putin can call upon China and N. Korea, so if push ever >>>>>>>>>>>>>> came to shove, continental Europe would be toast.
The US Abrahams tank relies on a German gun and UK (Chobham) >>>>>>>>>>>>> armour.
But the Americans won't have to fight if Trump has his way. He >>>>>>>>>>>> thinks he can just keep Putin happy by feeding him European >>>>>>>>>>>> countries, one-by-one.
NATO exists so that he can't do that. An attack on one NATO member >>>>>>>>>>> is an attack on all of them. Ukraine is a not a member of NATO (and >>>>>>>>>>> Putin doesn't want it to join).
A flourish of the pen is all it needs to destroy that. Trunp has >>>>>>>>>> pulled out of other alliances when it suits him, why not this one? >>>>>>>>>
all the other countries involved.
I know, but he thinks he rules most of the World and NATO will fall >>>>>>>> apart without him. Then, once the unity is broken, he can manipulate >>>>>>>> the individual countries in any way that suits him.
He is acting in the interest of the people who elected him. That is a >>>>>>> radical concept nowadays.
The next election will test whether they think he has done that ...if >>>>>> there is a next election.
US Presidential elections happen every 4 years. But maybe the sun will >>>>> go supernova or Climate Change will kill us all before we get to elect >>>>> Vance.
For once this is something I agree with Bitrex on. JDV would make an
*excellent* successor to Trump if his Munich speech is anything to go
by. He's good looking, articulate, and not afraid to look down the
barrel of the would-be New World Order. In short: highly electable.
His unwillingness to say that Trump lost the 2020 election may cost him
the support of some voters.
The US is remarkably tolerant of criminally corrupt politicians, but
there are limits.
The cost of eggs is still up. That is the reason and some, that Trump
will not have the support of the legislative soon.
The USA-ans are wood headed, but bankrupting agriculture, grandma
dying for lack of drugs, more inflation because of tariffs will hollow
out MAGA.
Nope. Trump knows *exactly* what he's doing.
There are two pivotal
strengths he has: 1. He's a businessman and
He'll get what he wants and there will be no on-going hardship forDream on. Remember the Covid-19 pandemic. It killed about half a million
Americans.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 19:48:13 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
...Trump knows *exactly* what he's doing.
Well, nobody does that. But he has common sense, a good start.
There are two pivotal
strengths he has: 1. He's a businessman and 2. a hard bargainer. He'll
get what he wants and there will be no on-going hardship for
Americans. Warm, sun-dappled uplands await them.
Sieg heil ! ...and will he make the trains run on time?
He wants to kill the absurd, bloated California High Speed Rail
project. Rightly so.
But, YOU determine your sexual preferences, sexuality, gender, etc.
You might "leak" hints to careful observers, but YOU are the defining
entity. Whereas, in each of the preceding, you are likely the LAST
to know (or admit).
[That's not to say that there aren't folks who refuse to acknowledge
their own preferences -- likely because they KNOW there are social
(and likely business/economic) consequences to that!]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money.
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[...]
But, YOU determine your sexual preferences, sexuality, gender, etc.
You might "leak" hints to careful observers, but YOU are the defining
entity. Whereas, in each of the preceding, you are likely the LAST
to know (or admit).
[That's not to say that there aren't folks who refuse to acknowledge
their own preferences -- likely because they KNOW there are social
(and likely business/economic) consequences to that!]
That is the critical point: there is what you are - and there is what
you do about it. Like left-handedness, trying to suppress something
that is part of who you are will eventually take its toll on your
well-being.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money.
...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money.
...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
On 2/17/25 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don YThe Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and >>>>>>>> now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>> work.
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in >>>>>>>>>> Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the >>>>>>>>>> case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents. >>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses. >>>>>>>>>> Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if >>>>>>>>>> gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work? >>>>>>>>
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
"The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet,
freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
The order is important. Becoming a modern country comes before
becoming a member of NATO. (I still have doubts about Turkey.)
I'm convinced that Putin also wants a modern, economically
successful country, but above that, he wants to conserve its
sovereignty. Getting hemmed in by its traditional long-time
adversaries makes him understandably nervous.
The US makes *me* nervous. It's far too meddlesome and has a
track record of foul play.
Jeroen Belleman
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
But, YOU determine your sexual preferences, sexuality, gender, etc.
You might "leak" hints to careful observers, but YOU are the defining
entity. Whereas, in each of the preceding, you are likely the LAST
to know (or admit).
[That's not to say that there aren't folks who refuse to acknowledge
their own preferences -- likely because they KNOW there are social
(and likely business/economic) consequences to that!]
That is the critical point: there is what you are - and there is what
you do about it. Like left-handedness, trying to suppress something
that is part of who you are will eventually take its toll on your
well-being.
The link which was identified between mental illness and LGBT in the
past was not because more LGBT people were mentally ill, it is because
of the way they were treated by society and the stress they were under
to appear to conform.
Very often the most anti-LGBT people are like that because they are
trying to suppress it in themselves.
I know many trenswomen who wasted
the first part of their lives pretending to be macho men, grew beards
and did weight training etc in the hope that it would make the feelings
go away. Often this led to multiple breakdowns and/or attempts at
suicide before they eventually recognised their self deception and
decided to live the rest of their lives the way they needed to.
There is a bit of good advice given to parents who are frantically
worried that their young son might be transgender: "Better a happy
daughter than a dead son". Sadly, this advice isn't always heeded.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 21:31:58 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 16:45, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 12:39:19 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/17/25 11:09, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 17/02/2025 5:17 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:...and the failure of the rest of the World to react to it strongly and >>>>> quickly enough.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 10:10:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 12:31:48 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
On Sat, 15 Feb 2025 10:53:37 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 2/15/2025 3:07 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > It was clearly aimed at the
home market; he was supposed to be there to > talk about security in
Europe and never even mentioned Ukraine. All
We (US) are governed by "entertainers", now more than ever. It is the
nature of our "system" that we reward people who can win races instead
of govern.
And, all of them end up "old and gray" (or, oldER and BALD as is the
case of The Orange One) in the process.
that this speech has done is to turn most European countries againstThis is probably a good thing. Unless you are Putin. It's pretty clear
the kind of ignorant, thuggish, self-serving America he represents.
Fortunately there are still many Americans who are not like that. >>>>>>>>>>>
that Russia is a Potemkin power -- definitely not a "World Power". >>>>>>>>>>>
The threat he poses is the threat ANY nation possessing nukes poses.
Care to make any guesses as to how many exist? Or, *could* exist if
gifted the technology?
The big question about Russian missiles and nukes is, will they work?
The Russians know that their stuff isn't especially reliable, then and
now. So they have always used lots of warheads, so at least one will >>>>>>>>> work.
Four of them came down in Romania last week - we haven't heard much >>>>>>>> about that on the UK news. Two were in Moldavia, close to the border, >>>>>>>> so they might have been a mistake, but two more were well inside >>>>>>>> Romania.
Perhaps if we hadn't breached the Minsk II Treaty and expanded NATO up >>>>>>> to Russia's doorstep, none of this ghastly mess would have happened in >>>>>>> the first place.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a reminder of why Russia's neighbours >>>>>> were so keen to join NATO.
The ghastly mess is entirely driven by Russia's territorial ambitions. >>>>>
Which would have triggered another world war.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
It's really a pity. For a while, it looked like it could
become a reality.
Jeroen Belleman
"The West" is seductive. People want fresh fruit, uncensored internet,
freedom of speech, genuine elections. Getting that isn't snuggling up
to NATO as much as it's becoming a modern country.
Putin needs a poor, ignorant, obedient, patriotic population, which is
why he calls "the West" - actually The Enlightenment - his enemy.
The order is important. Becoming a modern country comes before
becoming a member of NATO. (I still have doubts about Turkey.)
I'm convinced that Putin also wants a modern, economically
successful country, but above that, he wants to conserve its
sovereignty. Getting hemmed in by its traditional long-time
adversaries makes him understandably nervous.
The US makes *me* nervous. It's far too meddlesome and has a
track record of foul play.
Jeroen Belleman
European wars don't make me nervous. They have been so routine for so
many millenia that they are boring.
Too bad about the genocides. Lots of innocents have died.
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 12:30:14 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money.
...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
London was vile when horses did all the heavy work.
And before rail transportation, everyone had to live close to work.
Most people walked.
On 25/02/2025 6:31 am, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 12:30:14 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money. >>...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
London was vile when horses did all the heavy work.
And every other large city.
And before rail transportation, everyone had to live close to work.
Most people walked.
Canals and fast barges weren't a quick as railroads but they were faster
than walking and a lot less like hard work than riding.
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2025 6:31 am, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 12:30:14 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money. >> >>...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
London was vile when horses did all the heavy work.
And every other large city.
And before rail transportation, everyone had to live close to work.
Most people walked.
Canals and fast barges weren't a quick as railroads but they were faster
than walking and a lot less like hard work than riding.
Rather surprisingly (and not very well known): one of the biggest >side-effects of canals was the expansion of London. It had reached a
size where the transport of feed for the horses in the centre needed
much larger numbers of horses coming in from the surrounding farmland. >Likewise, the horses that removed the dung had to be fed and their dung
also had to be removed. This put a limit on how big London could grow.
When canals were built and one horse could tow a 30-tonne boat, the need
for so many transport horses reduced and the feed and dung could be
brought in from much further out, so the built-up area could be
enlarged.
I'm sorry for Ukraine, but they've committed a grave error
trying to snuggle up to NATO too early. It might have worked
if they'd waited another 50 years or so, or until relations
of Russia with the west had developed into solid mutual trust.
Unfortunately, that is now out of the question.
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:31:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2025 6:31 am, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 12:30:14 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money. >>> >>...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
London was vile when horses did all the heavy work.
And every other large city.
And before rail transportation, everyone had to live close to work.
Most people walked.
Canals and fast barges weren't a quick as railroads but they were faster >>> than walking and a lot less like hard work than riding.
Rather surprisingly (and not very well known): one of the biggest >>side-effects of canals was the expansion of London. It had reached a
size where the transport of feed for the horses in the centre needed
much larger numbers of horses coming in from the surrounding farmland. >>Likewise, the horses that removed the dung had to be fed and their dung >>also had to be removed. This put a limit on how big London could grow.
When canals were built and one horse could tow a 30-tonne boat, the need >>for so many transport horses reduced and the feed and dung could be
brought in from much further out, so the built-up area could be
enlarged.
Horse droppings, coal smoke, open sewage ditches, dirty water. Must
have been nasty. And unhealthy.
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 07:34:17 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:31:26 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On 25/02/2025 6:31 am, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 24 Feb 2025 12:30:14 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
[...]
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money. >>>>>>...and the pollution is bio-degradeable.
London was vile when horses did all the heavy work.
And every other large city.
And before rail transportation, everyone had to live close to work.
Most people walked.
Canals and fast barges weren't a quick as railroads but they were faster >>>> than walking and a lot less like hard work than riding.
Rather surprisingly (and not very well known): one of the biggest
side-effects of canals was the expansion of London. It had reached a
size where the transport of feed for the horses in the centre needed
much larger numbers of horses coming in from the surrounding farmland.
Likewise, the horses that removed the dung had to be fed and their dung
also had to be removed. This put a limit on how big London could grow.
When canals were built and one horse could tow a 30-tonne boat, the need >>> for so many transport horses reduced and the feed and dung could be
brought in from much further out, so the built-up area could be
enlarged.
Horse droppings, coal smoke, open sewage ditches, dirty water. Must
have been nasty. And unhealthy.
London hasn't changed a bit - except to say you're far more likely to
get stabbed to death by an illegal immigrant nowadays. Aside from
that, much the same.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:29:44 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype
machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
I can see a new-to-me word and say it about right, enough that other
people will usually recognize it and can write it down.
granbazzle
On 2025-02-23, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:29:44 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2/23/25 16:53, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 14:42:25 +0100, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:[Snip!]
We are so lucky to have a phoenetic character set. The early teletype
machines used a 5-bit Baudot code. And how did the Chinese manage to
use the telegraph?
Surely you are joking? The latin characters may have been phonetic
in Latin, but they certainly aren't in English!
Jeroen Belleman
I can see a new-to-me word and say it about right, enough that other
people will usually recognize it and can write it down.
granbazzle
How about some quiche?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3WpZzJv_V8 (12 seconds)
On 15/02/2025 5:03 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech,
telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
By which he means that they should buy more US military equipment,
rather than building more of their own
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
The international reaction, to some extent also driven by Trump's
attempt to couple securing peace in Ukraine with him extorting loads of
rare earth mineral from the Ukraine to cover the money that the US has
so far spent on supporting the the Ukraine against Russia, does seem to
be that the US under Trump has backed off from supporting it's allies
and is going over to trying to extort all they can from them.
It's international relations as a protection racket, with Putin as
Trump's enforcer.
The speech is starting to look more like a calculated exercise exercise
in intimidation, and the appropriate response would probably have been defenestration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestration
On 24/02/2025 9:35 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 19:48:13 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
[...]
...Trump knows *exactly* what he's doing.
Well, nobody does that. But he has common sense, a good start.
By which John Larkin means that Donald Trump shares a few absurd >misapprehensions with John Larkin and a bunch of other gullible suckers.
There are two pivotal
strengths he has: 1. He's a businessman and 2. a hard bargainer. He'll >>>> get what he wants and there will be no on-going hardship for
Americans. Warm, sun-dappled uplands await them.
Sieg heil ! ...and will he make the trains run on time?
He wants to kill the absurd, bloated California High Speed Rail
project. Rightly so.
If you set the scheduled speed slow enough the trains are unlikely to
run late, and slower trains are cheaper than faster trains (though you
do need more of them).
Bring back horse drawn stages coaches and you can save even more money.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
There was a famous public transport in Holland. You have a canal, and
there is a boat "trekschuit" drawn by a horse alongside the canal,
"jaagpad". Bring your laptop and you can do a lot of work travelling.
Much more comfortable than the diligence.
Make Holland Great Again. The speed was 5 km/h or less. At least that
was a functioning society.
As the Munich conference today wound up, JDV gave a *cracking* speech, >telling Europe they'd have to fund their own defense for a change.
Plus he also warned them not to cancel elections that don't go their
way (as happened recently in Romania). I read this as also as a hint
not to undermine the integrity of the German elections coming up
shortly where the 'far right' AFD party are expected to do very well.
For once - once! - a politician makes a speech I actually enjoyed!
Trump and JDV have really hit the ground running and are making good
on all their pre-election commitments. Fantastic!
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