I've been just picking up whatever (riser) cable is conveniently available, in the usual 1000 ft boxes. No real focus on manufacturer, etc.
But, had to run some drops in EMT recently and noticed a marked difference
it the overall durability of the different cables that were being fed.
One seemed "flimsier" than the other -- no doubt related to the jacket composition.
I notice the cable from the (outdoor) modem has an even more duable
jacket. But, attribute this to it being "outdoor" cable (none of the
stuff I've purchased has been thusly labeled)
Any tips on what to look for in a *description* to select for the "nicer"? cable? (I could probably look at the markings on the jackets to identify the different brands)
1)Â Â Â The Durometer of the plastic coating on the wire and the sheath.
    Range is 0 -100 and the higher the number the harder the
    material. I doubt that you will find that in the specs, but.
2)   CCA Copper Coated or Clad Aluminum I was always careful
    when buying CAT-5 or CAT-6 cable. Always wanted Solid Copper!
    Look for that on the cable box or on the cable itself.
3)Â Â Â Cable Gauge. 22 AWG vs 24 AWG vs 26 AWG vs 28 AWGÂ The higher
    the number the thinner the wire.
Hope that help with your challenge!!
Les,
1) The Durometer of the plastic coating on the wire and the sheath.
Range is 0 -100 and the higher the number the harder the
material. I doubt that you will find that in the specs, but.
This (the "more desirable") seems to be *thicker* than the other.
The inferior product almost looks/feels like "shrink wrap over 4 pairs". >I.e., you can FEEL the pairs under the jacket.
The nicer (in terms of routing) cable has a more substantial
feel to it (though not as if the jacket was a *tube* with loose
conductors within).
2) CCA Copper Coated or Clad Aluminum I was always careful
when buying CAT-5 or CAT-6 cable. Always wanted Solid Copper!
Look for that on the cable box or on the cable itself.
Yes. I am also wondering if stranded would have been a better
choice (too late now) despite being "premises wiring" (not
patch cables).
3) Cable Gauge. 22 AWG vs 24 AWG vs 26 AWG vs 28 AWG The higher
the number the thinner the wire.
I've always used #24AWG.
Hope that help with your challenge!!
My concern is mainly to know how to specify the type of cable
that should be used in future installations (in which I won't
likely be involved). Other than naming a specific vendor
and model number (whose manufacture could also change, over
time)
Both (all?) cables seem electrically similar and have the same
stated pull strength. But, I noticed feeding several cables
through the EMT, conduit bodies, els, etc. there was a definite
difference in how the "flimsier" one handled the bends that
you encounter in those situations.
As I suspect "paid help" would be less meticulous than I, it
would be wise to specify materials that they would be less
likely to abuse. <frown>
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 10:53:25 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
Les,
1) The Durometer of the plastic coating on the wire and the sheath.
Range is 0 -100 and the higher the number the harder the
material. I doubt that you will find that in the specs, but.
This (the "more desirable") seems to be *thicker* than the other.
The inferior product almost looks/feels like "shrink wrap over 4 pairs". >>I.e., you can FEEL the pairs under the jacket.
The nicer (in terms of routing) cable has a more substantial
feel to it (though not as if the jacket was a *tube* with loose
conductors within).
2) CCA Copper Coated or Clad Aluminum I was always careful
when buying CAT-5 or CAT-6 cable. Always wanted Solid Copper!
Look for that on the cable box or on the cable itself.
Yes. I am also wondering if stranded would have been a better
choice (too late now) despite being "premises wiring" (not
patch cables).
3) Cable Gauge. 22 AWG vs 24 AWG vs 26 AWG vs 28 AWG The higher
the number the thinner the wire.
I've always used #24AWG.
Hope that help with your challenge!!
My concern is mainly to know how to specify the type of cable
that should be used in future installations (in which I won't
likely be involved). Other than naming a specific vendor
and model number (whose manufacture could also change, over
time)
Both (all?) cables seem electrically similar and have the same
stated pull strength. But, I noticed feeding several cables
through the EMT, conduit bodies, els, etc. there was a definite
difference in how the "flimsier" one handled the bends that
you encounter in those situations.
As I suspect "paid help" would be less meticulous than I, it
would be wise to specify materials that they would be less
likely to abuse. <frown>
The simplest way I know of is to get samples and cut them open for
detail inspection.
Without destructive inspection, there are a few tests. First, mass
per length - heavier is better. Second is DC resistance of each
conductor per length - smaller is better. For shielded twisted pair,
the shield quality can be measured, but this requires special tools.
Joe Gwinn
My concern is mainly to know how to specify the type of cable
that should be used in future installations (in which I won't
likely be involved). Other than naming a specific vendor
and model number (whose manufacture could also change, over
time)
As I suspect "paid help" would be less meticulous than I, it
would be wise to specify materials that they would be less
likely to abuse. <frown>
The simplest way I know of is to get samples and cut them open for
detail inspection.
Without destructive inspection, there are a few tests. First, mass
per length - heavier is better.
Second is DC resistance of each
conductor per length - smaller is better. For shielded twisted pair,
the shield quality can be measured, but this requires special tools.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 15:56:08 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
As I suspect "paid help" would be less meticulous than I, it
would be wise to specify materials that they would be less
likely to abuse. <frown>
The simplest way I know of is to get samples and cut them open for
detail inspection.
That only works for the samples you have in your hands.
I don't see any criteria that is *specified* for the
cables that highlights the differences that I am seeing.
True. You can specify such things, but dream on - the vendors won't
notice of care.
The only things you can specify are the overall system-driven
requirements like max attenuation versus frequency and distance,
shielding effectiveness, and the like.
And buying sight unseen is almost guaranteed to end in tears.
On 4/20/2025 2:15 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
My concern is mainly to know how to specify the type of cable
that should be used in future installations (in which I won't
likely be involved). Other than naming a specific vendor
and model number (whose manufacture could also change, over
time)
As I suspect "paid help" would be less meticulous than I, it
would be wise to specify materials that they would be less
likely to abuse. <frown>
The simplest way I know of is to get samples and cut them open for
detail inspection.
That only works for the samples you have in your hands.
I don't see any criteria that is *specified* for the
cables that highlights the differences that I am seeing.
If I specify "Belden xyz" or "Southwire abc", there's no
guarantee that they won't change how they are manufactured.
Or, the aspect that I'm concerned with.
Or, simply stop making it.
So, I'm looking for a way of specifying the criteria that
are important -- and, ideally, of extracting it from a
manufacturer's datasheet.
Without destructive inspection, there are a few tests. First, mass
per length - heavier is better.
Weight is likely something that can be easily determined -- even
without actual samples in your hands. And, holding the wire gauge
constant, you'd have to assume any weight differences were due to
changes in insulation and/or jacket.
Unless, of course, they also include the weight of the packaging...
Second is DC resistance of each
conductor per length - smaller is better. For shielded twisted pair,
the shield quality can be measured, but this requires special tools.
Joe Gwinn
I've been just picking up whatever (riser) cable is conveniently available, >in the usual 1000 ft boxes. No real focus on manufacturer, etc.
But, had to run some drops in EMT recently and noticed a marked difference
it the overall durability of the different cables that were being fed.
One seemed "flimsier" than the other -- no doubt related to the jacket >composition.
I notice the cable from the (outdoor) modem has an even more duable
jacket. But, attribute this to it being "outdoor" cable (none of the
stuff I've purchased has been thusly labeled)
Any tips on what to look for in a *description* to select for the "nicer"? >cable? (I could probably look at the markings on the jackets to identify
the different brands)
On Sun, 20 Apr 2025 03:57:28 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
I've been just picking up whatever (riser) cable is conveniently available, >> in the usual 1000 ft boxes. No real focus on manufacturer, etc.
What type of outer jacket did you buy? CL, CM, CMG, CMR, CMP, CMX,
CMX2, CMX3, etc?
Are you dealing with any kind of fire or smoke related requirements?
Some jackets trade slow burning, so that a fire doesn't spread as
quickly, for generating toxic smoke. If you're installing cable in a vertical shaft that is full of potentially combustible insulation, you
want something that smolders and not burn. However, if the cable is
being run through an air shaft (plenum), you want something that
doesn't generate much toxic smoke.
"Understanding Cable Jacket Ratings: CL, CM, CMR and CMP" <https://www.cmple.com/learn/understanding-cable-jacket-ratings-cl-cm-cmr-and-cmp>
Incidentally, for an interesting outdoor experiment, cut about 1 meter
of each type of cable, hold the wire vertically, and use a butane or
propane gas lighter to ignite the lower end of the cable. Note which
types of cables smolder or burst into flames, and the amount of smoke
each type produces. Also, wear heavy gloves, use eye protection, and
have a bucket of water nearby.
But, had to run some drops in EMT recently and noticed a marked difference >> it the overall durability of the different cables that were being fed.
One seemed "flimsier" than the other -- no doubt related to the jacket
composition.
Yep. I've also seen this. The cable was very brittle and could be
bent only a few times before it cracked. However, it has been too
long and I can't recall what type of cable was being used. It was in
a hospital so it probably was CMR flame retardant insulation.
Since you're complaining about the lack of "durability" and running
cable through EMT conduit, you might want to calculate the minimum
bend radius: <https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/minimum-bend-radius>
I notice the cable from the (outdoor) modem has an even more duable
jacket. But, attribute this to it being "outdoor" cable (none of the
stuff I've purchased has been thusly labeled)
Outdoor cable usually mean UV resistant. It can also be direct burial
cable where the space between the wires and outer jacket are filled
with silicon slime. It does a good job of keeping the water out of
the cable, but does make a mess. If used as a cable "drop" between
the pole and a building, it should have a messenger wire to keep the
Ethernet cable from stretching. Lots of interpretations for "outdoor
cable".
Any tips on what to look for in a *description* to select for the "nicer"? >> cable? (I could probably look at the markings on the jackets to identify
the different brands)
Ummm... yes, it would be nice if you would disclose the maker and the
numbers on printed on the cable.
"Ethernet Cable Identification for Beginners: Reading Print Legends" <https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/ethernet-cable-id-for-beginners#>
Incidentally, watch out for CCA Ethernet cable. CCA means copper clad aluminum. CCA is cheaper than 100% copper, but everything else about
it is horrible:
"Why You Should Stay Away from CCA Cables?" <https://www.systoncable.com/stay-away-from-cca-cables/>
I've been just picking up whatever (riser) cable is conveniently available, >>in the usual 1000 ft boxes. No real focus on manufacturer, etc.
What type of outer jacket did you buy? CL, CM, CMG, CMR, CMP, CMX,
CMX2, CMX3, etc?
Are you dealing with any kind of fire or smoke related requirements?
Some jackets trade slow burning, so that a fire doesn't spread as
quickly, for generating toxic smoke.
"Understanding Cable Jacket Ratings: CL, CM, CMR and CMP" ><https://www.cmple.com/learn/understanding-cable-jacket-ratings-cl-cm-cmr-and-cmp>
But, had to run some drops in EMT recently and noticed a marked difference >>it the overall durability of the different cables that were being fed.
Outdoor cable usually mean UV resistant. It can also be direct burial
cable where the space between the wires and outer jacket are filled
with silicon slime. It does a good job of keeping the water out of
the cable, but does make a mess.
Lots of interpretations for "outdoor cable".I live where there is lightning; to me "between buildings" means
Any tips on what to look for in a *description* to select for the "nicer"? >>cable? (I could probably look at the markings on the jackets to identify >>the different brands)
"Ethernet Cable Identification for Beginners: Reading Print Legends" ><https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/ethernet-cable-id-for-beginners#>
Incidentally, watch out for CCA Ethernet cable. CCA means copper clad >aluminum. CCA is cheaper than 100% copper, but everything else about
it is horrible:
Are you dealing with any kind of fire or smoke related requirements?
Some jackets trade slow burning, so that a fire doesn't spread as
quickly, for generating toxic smoke.
Last I heard, the EU forbid our plenum cable as when the fireproof
Teflon plenum cable is charred, the gas is quite toxic.
But, had to run some drops in EMT recently and noticed a marked difference >>> it the overall durability of the different cables that were being fed.
Worse, I saw some cable from One well-known discount vendor.
The insulation on the conductors was so thin and poorly applied
that there were ~~cm long bare sections within the jacket. The
problem was, two were bare in an adjacent location. What was
the last time you looked for a short IN the middle of newly
installed cable vs. at the end connectors????
Lots of interpretations for "outdoor cable".I live where there is lightning; to me "between buildings" means
fiber, period.
Incidentally, watch out for CCA Ethernet cable. CCA means copper clad
aluminum. CCA is cheaper than 100% copper, but everything else about
it is horrible:
It's good for the doorbell and tying up the dog.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
Outdoor cable usually mean UV resistant. It can also be direct burial
cable where the space between the wires and outer jacket are filled
with silicon slime. It does a good job of keeping the water out of
the cable, but does make a mess.
Beware using filled cable indoors. That gel may well be flammable.
There's something in the Code re: that.
On Wed, 7 May 2025 23:06:50 -0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
Outdoor cable usually mean UV resistant. It can also be direct burial >>>cable where the space between the wires and outer jacket are filled
with silicon slime. It does a good job of keeping the water out of
the cable, but does make a mess.
Beware using filled cable indoors. That gel may well be flammable.
There's something in the Code re: that.
The gel is NOT flammable:
"Ethernet Cable Gel Filling Flame Test!" ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adXRPdnETRU>
The grease needs to be slimy to plug any air gaps which might cause
water to crawl up the air gaps using capillary action.
On Wed, 07 May 2025 19:59:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 7 May 2025 23:06:50 -0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
Outdoor cable usually mean UV resistant. It can also be direct burial >>>>cable where the space between the wires and outer jacket are filled >>>>with silicon slime. It does a good job of keeping the water out of
the cable, but does make a mess.
Beware using filled cable indoors. That gel may well be flammable. >>>There's something in the Code re: that.
The gel is NOT flammable:
"Ethernet Cable Gel Filling Flame Test!" >><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adXRPdnETRU>
After posting that, I went searching for what the gel formulation. I
never did find anything authoritative, but did the mention in the 2nd
video below that it's a wax and mineral oil mix. When heated, mineral
oil vapors will burn (135°C / 275°F flash point) and is considered
mildly flammable).
<https://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/12191>
No clue about the type of wax used, so I can't determine if it's
flammable.
The grease needs to be slimy to plug any air gaps which might cause
water to crawl up the air gaps using capillary action.
I blundered across these two videos demonstrating how to properly
terminate CAT6 direct burial shielded cable:
"How To: Terminate Shielded Direct Burial Ethernet Cable" ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0NBL7ezMeE> (21:37)
"Cat6 Gel Filled Direct Burial Ethernet: Termination and Best
Practices"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=001SFnxX_9o> (14:17)
The termination tool shown in the videos seem to be useful. $60. ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJtaX_PK1FY> (10:25) ><https://www.truecable.com/products/truecrimp-all-in-one-pass-through-rj45-crimp-tool-v3>
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 547 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 65:18:37 |
| Calls: | 10,398 |
| Files: | 14,067 |
| Messages: | 6,417,548 |