• Re: SDXC cards exFAT only. why not NTFS?

    From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Jul 31 11:09:09 2025
    "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message news:fbum8k5giq5hgme980bk610c8kpuhqnda7@4ax.com...
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    I'd try Rufus.

    If it's unreadable then I'd look into whether Hiren's boot cd (usb) has anything useful.
    Otherwise it's likely not recoverable unless an expensive specialist service can do it.
    If the client wants the data no matter what the cost then don't do anything other than send it to a specialist service.


    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    No mfr info when probed.

    RL

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Jul 31 08:12:38 2025
    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    What do you mean "only offer"? How/where are you seeing this?
    It may be that their current format is "offered" as the NEW
    format choice. I've seen similar problems trying to coax a
    card to be FAT32 formatted, etc.

    DISKPART is the goto tool to avoid MS's idea of what you
    WANT the medium to be.

    [Note that the card reader can also impose limits on the
    medium by not revealing its "true self"]

    why not NTFS?

    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    No mfr info when probed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Jul 31 10:05:48 2025
    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    You may find that they don't NEED a formal filesystem but
    may just be handled as a raw block device; just store video in
    the "current block" and when exhausted, move on to the next
    block /in sequence/. When you get to the last physical
    block, wrap around and OVERWRITE the first block. Thus,
    all you need to do is track the current block number to be
    able to reconstruct the stored data (which could also
    include tags interspersed with the video).

    It's a camera. It doesn't need to be able to store emails,
    spreadsheets, music, etc. so why burden the implementation
    with support for something that isn't really needed?

    [It could also be broken! :> ]

    No mfr info when probed.

    RL

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Thu Jul 31 16:37:01 2025
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 08:12:38 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    What do you mean "only offer"? How/where are you seeing this?
    It may be that their current format is "offered" as the NEW
    format choice. I've seen similar problems trying to coax a
    card to be FAT32 formatted, etc.

    It's actually 'offered' in the formatting options, but never
    completes successfully. It tells me so, and the result is
    a RAW disc. Quick exFAT format gets the card back again.

    DISKPART is the goto tool to avoid MS's idea of what you
    WANT the medium to be.

    [Note that the card reader can also impose limits on the
    medium by not revealing its "true self"]

    I'm told that some cards are also device-specific.

    RL

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  • From legg@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Thu Jul 31 16:45:48 2025
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:09:09 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message news:fbum8k5giq5hgme980bk610c8kpuhqnda7@4ax.com...
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    I'd try Rufus.

    If it's unreadable then I'd look into whether Hiren's boot cd (usb) has anything useful.
    Otherwise it's likely not recoverable unless an expensive specialist service can do it.
    If the client wants the data no matter what the cost then don't do anything other than send it to a specialist service.


    Not trying to recover somebody's old cam data.

    Looking for simple NTSF volumes for large data (small files)
    physical access between older non-exFAT machines.

    I have one that formats as NTFS, but corrupts eventually, when
    data is written by older machines. Files and folders are visible
    under explorer, but are rubbish, when accessed.

    Haven't tried it with a 'reputable brand'

    RL

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Jul 31 13:59:44 2025
    On 7/31/2025 1:37 PM, legg wrote:

    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    What do you mean "only offer"? How/where are you seeing this?
    It may be that their current format is "offered" as the NEW
    format choice. I've seen similar problems trying to coax a
    card to be FAT32 formatted, etc.

    It's actually 'offered' in the formatting options, but never
    completes successfully. It tells me so, and the result is
    a RAW disc. Quick exFAT format gets the card back again.

    Try DISKPART and see which "formats" seem to work vs. fail.
    I think you need to CLEAN (?) the medium first (removes all
    vestiges of partition table). Note, also, that some media
    has reserved areas that make them difficult to completely
    "erase" (and, of course, you aren't truly erasing it)

    DISKPART is the goto tool to avoid MS's idea of what you
    WANT the medium to be.

    [Note that the card reader can also impose limits on the
    medium by not revealing its "true self"]

    I'm told that some cards are also device-specific.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Thu Jul 31 18:22:44 2025
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:59:44 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/31/2025 1:37 PM, legg wrote:

    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    What do you mean "only offer"? How/where are you seeing this?
    It may be that their current format is "offered" as the NEW
    format choice. I've seen similar problems trying to coax a
    card to be FAT32 formatted, etc.

    It's actually 'offered' in the formatting options, but never
    completes successfully. It tells me so, and the result is
    a RAW disc. Quick exFAT format gets the card back again.

    Try DISKPART and see which "formats" seem to work vs. fail.
    I think you need to CLEAN (?) the medium first (removes all
    vestiges of partition table). Note, also, that some media
    has reserved areas that make them difficult to completely
    "erase" (and, of course, you aren't truly erasing it)

    They are strange animals.

    One, which produced a flakey NTSF format has a 1.5MB invisible
    disk usage.Disk management identified it as having an MBR.

    DISKPART is the goto tool to avoid MS's idea of what you
    WANT the medium to be.

    [Note that the card reader can also impose limits on the
    medium by not revealing its "true self"]

    I'm told that some cards are also device-specific.

    I'm checking out what a 256GB part ($50 with mfr and warranty)
    will do when used as intended. NTSF no obvious problem, so far.

    The 516GB cards giving issues were an order of magnitude or two
    cheaper. ie junk.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 31 17:28:53 2025
    Try DISKPART and see which "formats" seem to work vs. fail.
    I think you need to CLEAN (?) the medium first (removes all
    vestiges of partition table). Note, also, that some media
    has reserved areas that make them difficult to completely
    "erase" (and, of course, you aren't truly erasing it)

    They are strange animals.

    One, which produced a flakey NTSF format has a 1.5MB invisible
    disk usage.Disk management identified it as having an MBR.

    If they are like "regular disk drives", they support Device
    Configuration Overlay (DCO) and Host Protected Area (HPA);
    these are regions that you can't normally "see".

    The DCO lets you make the disk look like another (smaller)
    disk by hiding a portion of it from the system "hardware".
    The HPA hides a portion of the disk from the OS.

    I built a disk sanitizer that removes these (cuz they CAN store
    data and you want to ensure ALL data is scrubbed, not just the
    easily accessible data) to expose the underlying medium.

    [You can always add them back in AFTER scrubbing their contents]

    DISKPART is the goto tool to avoid MS's idea of what you
    WANT the medium to be.

    [Note that the card reader can also impose limits on the
    medium by not revealing its "true self"]

    I'm told that some cards are also device-specific.

    I'm checking out what a 256GB part ($50 with mfr and warranty)
    will do when used as intended. NTSF no obvious problem, so far.

    Are you stuck with this media form? (cameras) Or, is it just
    something you are exploring?

    The 516GB cards giving issues were an order of magnitude or two
    cheaper. ie junk.

    I've noticed a lot of "previously unknown" solid state memory
    manufactures offering products, lately. Gotta wonder if what
    they are selling is actually worth the "savings".

    Consider, a memory has one real function; if it doesn't
    REMEMBER, reliably, then what good is it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 31 10:17:14 2025
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    No mfr info when probed.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Arie de Muijnck@21:1/5 to legg on Fri Aug 1 10:13:03 2025
    On 2025-07-31 16:17, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    No mfr info when probed.

    RL


    Did you try the offical formatter?

    https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/

    Arie

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 1 12:09:56 2025
    On Fri, 1 Aug 2025 10:13:03 +0200, Arie de Muijnck <noreply@ademu.nl>
    wrote:

    On 2025-07-31 16:17, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    No mfr info when probed.

    RL


    Did you try the offical formatter?

    https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/

    Arie

    Wonder how serious they can be, without offering something
    aimed at Linux?

    ( well . . . none of the formats addressed are open source. )

    RL

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  • From albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Fri Aug 1 20:37:22 2025
    In article <106g7pk$3tbs9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    why not NTFS?

    Need to be portable yo non-exFAT-compatible machines.

    These were out of a security camera system, with unreadable
    file contents.

    You may find that they don't NEED a formal filesystem but
    may just be handled as a raw block device; just store video in
    the "current block" and when exhausted, move on to the next
    block /in sequence/. When you get to the last physical
    block, wrap around and OVERWRITE the first block. Thus,
    all you need to do is track the current block number to be
    able to reconstruct the stored data (which could also
    include tags interspersed with the video).

    It's a camera. It doesn't need to be able to store emails,
    spreadsheets, music, etc. so why burden the implementation
    with support for something that isn't really needed?

    [It could also be broken! :> ]

    No mfr info when probed.

    RL


    I mapped a tar device onto a sdcard. In practice you could allocate
    a file and write a sequential image with no overhead, just sequential
    blocks like on a tape.
    The advantage that it is actually in practive a random access device
    and you could e.g. read a part of a disk video.
    There are no clusters are some idiocy, and the capacity is not limited
    to 160 kbyte then 32 Mbyte then 32 Gbyte like Microsoft.
    Groetjes Albert
    --
    The Chinese government is satisfied with its military superiority over USA.
    The next 5 year plan has as primary goal to advance life expectancy
    over 80 years, like Western Europe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl on Fri Aug 1 12:13:27 2025
    On 8/1/2025 11:37 AM, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
    I mapped a tar device onto a sdcard. In practice you could allocate
    a file and write a sequential image with no overhead, just sequential
    blocks like on a tape.

    Yes. If you assume the SD card is doing its own bad block management,
    then why not treat it like a block of contiguous memory?

    The advantage that it is actually in practive a random access device
    and you could e.g. read a part of a disk video.

    I did this with a mag tape driver in the mid 90's. You could mount
    a tape as a file system and then read random files just by letting the driver's strategy routine sort out how to best get to the block sought (e.g., skip forward followed by read forward vs skip backwards followed by read reverse
    OR skip an extra block baackwards followed by read forward).

    But, it was really abusive on the transport! (and, slow as shit!)
    Almost as much fun as watching an old pen-plotter at work!

    Of course, you had to prepare the "volume image" ahead of time as
    updates were constrained to fit in the space already allocated
    for the "files".

    There are no clusters are some idiocy, and the capacity is not limited
    to 160 kbyte then 32 Mbyte then 32 Gbyte like Microsoft.
    Groetjes Albert

    Exactly. But, it relies on the medium being intact (or having its
    own bad block management)

    [I assume most consumer devices do this to some extent. But, bulk NAND/NOR FLASH likely still relies on the driver to handle this]

    Given that the media *will* wear, you have to wonder when you're going to
    have that OhShit moment...

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  • From Theo@21:1/5 to legg on Fri Aug 1 22:16:17 2025
    legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
    On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 08:12:38 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 7/31/2025 7:17 AM, legg wrote:
    Some recently acquired 512GB SDXC cards offer only exFAT formatting
    under W7.

    What do you mean "only offer"? How/where are you seeing this?
    It may be that their current format is "offered" as the NEW
    format choice. I've seen similar problems trying to coax a
    card to be FAT32 formatted, etc.

    It's actually 'offered' in the formatting options, but never
    completes successfully. It tells me so, and the result is
    a RAW disc. Quick exFAT format gets the card back again.

    Alarm bells ring. Are you sure those 512GB cards are actually 512GB, or are they 'Amazon 512GB', which means a fake small card that pretends to be
    512GB and throws the rest of the data away?

    FAT (I can't speak for exFAT) is good at masking fakes because the FAT table
    is in a fixed position. The faker can ensure it's always on real flash
    and so it's just file data that disappears which you don't notice until
    later (hopefully after the seller has done a runner with your money). Other formats put metadata in different places and if that gets thrown away by the fake card then things may fail a lot earlier.

    I'd do a test with a tool like h2testw and see if the card checks out: https://h2testw.org/

    (you may need to reformat as exFAT so there's a usable drive letter it can write data into)

    Theo

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