Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better machineability like 1144.
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting , and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces have a very
grainy appearance .
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better >machineability like 1144.
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better machineability like 1144.
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better machineability like 1144.
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning
with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting , and
the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces have a
very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075 is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be welded
by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of things I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that could be wrong so
as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids and get more towards
the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No accusation
there of course.
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability
of some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning
with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting ,
and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces have
a very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075
is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be
welded by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of things
I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that could be
wrong so as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids and get more
towards the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough
background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No
accusation there of course.
Every aluminum alloy I've melted down for casting stock has exhibited this characteristic , in fact I rely on it . Especially with stuff like
alloy wheels/rims , that are too big to process any other way . Lay that sucker down on a nice hot hardwood fire and when it starts looking like
it's about to melt (there are signs if you recognize them) start
dragging chunks off with a pair of blacksmith tongs . I usually have a preheated crucible on standby in the foundry furnace to receive them .
Wheel to crucible to ingot mold to out of my way while it cools .
Speaking of casting , I've got a brand new .452/255gr bullet mold in desperate need of some molten wheel weight/pure lead alloy ... I was
thinking .45 ACP when I bought it , but a couple of neighbors have 1873
SAA replicas . They currently use them for fast draw competition , but they're easily repurposed if the need arises .
On 11/16/2022 8:40 AM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability
of some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning
with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting ,
and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces
have a very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075
is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be
welded by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of
things I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that
could be wrong so as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids
and get more towards the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough
background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No
accusation there of course.
Every aluminum alloy I've melted down for casting stock has
exhibited this characteristic , in fact I rely on it . Especially with
stuff like alloy wheels/rims , that are too big to process any other
way . Lay that sucker down on a nice hot hardwood fire and when it
starts looking like it's about to melt (there are signs if you
recognize them) start dragging chunks off with a pair of blacksmith
tongs . I usually have a preheated crucible on standby in the foundry
furnace to receive them . Wheel to crucible to ingot mold to out of my
way while it cools .
Speaking of casting , I've got a brand new .452/255gr bullet mold
in desperate need of some molten wheel weight/pure lead alloy ... I
was thinking .45 ACP when I bought it , but a couple of neighbors have
1873 SAA replicas . They currently use them for fast draw competition
, but they're easily repurposed if the need arises .
I think most of the "casting" alloys probably exhibit some of this. I
have found no real issue with welding 5052, 6061, or 3003 other than my general lack of skills. I've also heard 6061 is particularly poor for casting unless you increase the silicon metal content. I have several pounds of silicone metal on the shelf for such experimentation
"someday." I am concerned about its higher melting point, but I've been told it will dissolve at aluminum casting temperatures. I've also heard
you can "cast" 6061 under high pressure with rapid cooling and not get
the crystallization it exhibits when gravity cast and "normally" cooled.
Of course this is a tangent.
On 11/16/2022 10:33 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/16/2022 8:40 AM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability >>>>>> of some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better >>>>>> machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning >>>>> with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting ,
and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces
have a very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075
is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be
welded by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of
things I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that
could be wrong so as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids
and get more towards the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough
background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No
accusation there of course.
Every aluminum alloy I've melted down for casting stock has
exhibited this characteristic , in fact I rely on it . Especially
with stuff like alloy wheels/rims , that are too big to process any
other way . Lay that sucker down on a nice hot hardwood fire and when
it starts looking like it's about to melt (there are signs if you
recognize them) start dragging chunks off with a pair of blacksmith
tongs . I usually have a preheated crucible on standby in the foundry
furnace to receive them . Wheel to crucible to ingot mold to out of
my way while it cools .
Speaking of casting , I've got a brand new .452/255gr bullet mold
in desperate need of some molten wheel weight/pure lead alloy ... I
was thinking .45 ACP when I bought it , but a couple of neighbors
have 1873 SAA replicas . They currently use them for fast draw
competition , but they're easily repurposed if the need arises .
I think most of the "casting" alloys probably exhibit some of this. I
have found no real issue with welding 5052, 6061, or 3003 other than
my general lack of skills. I've also heard 6061 is particularly poor
for casting unless you increase the silicon metal content. I have
several pounds of silicone metal on the shelf for such experimentation
"someday." I am concerned about its higher melting point, but I've
been told it will dissolve at aluminum casting temperatures. I've
also heard you can "cast" 6061 under high pressure with rapid cooling
and not get the crystallization it exhibits when gravity cast and
"normally" cooled. Of course this is a tangent.
Shoot , I toss out a perfectly good rabbit hole and you totally
ignore it ... I don't usually melt any aluminum but cast alloys .
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability of
some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
It was a term used in the Sheffield steel industry I started in.
* As I understand and recall it * (caveat)
The term "short" meaning brittle or fractures has a general meaning.
eg. "shortbread" - which as a type is a biscuit / cookie which has the property that it fractures readily if you apply a bending force to it
ie. "hot short" and "shortbread" have the same meaning to the "short"
in the name. Different meaning to dimension in this case.
"hot short" means if you work the metal while hot, seeking
malleability (not specifically ductily, which more relates to "cold" wire-drawing), you don't get malleability because the metal cracks
and/or fractures during that hot-working. Where you would otherwise
look to the metal deforming in a forming process with result of
forming some useful product.
Hot-shortness can be caused by solutes in the metal which form low
melting point phases which do indeed melt during what would otherwise
be a useful hot-working process.
Segregation of non-metallic / semi-metallic impurities to grain
boundaries could be another mechanism causing hot-shortness.
etc.
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:lypmdn8np5.fsf@void.com...
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:
...
I've read that at the time Titanic was built the sulfur content was considered acceptable as long as the steel didn't show hot
shortness. At the time they had little experience with brittleness
when cold.
On 11/16/2022 8:40 AM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability
of some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning
with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting ,
and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces
have a very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075
is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be
welded by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of
things I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that
could be wrong so as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids
and get more towards the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough
background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No
accusation there of course.
Every aluminum alloy I've melted down for casting stock has
exhibited this characteristic , in fact I rely on it . Especially
with stuff like alloy wheels/rims , that are too big to process any
other way . Lay that sucker down on a nice hot hardwood fire and when
it starts looking like it's about to melt (there are signs if you
recognize them) start dragging chunks off with a pair of blacksmith
tongs . I usually have a preheated crucible on standby in the foundry
furnace to receive them . Wheel to crucible to ingot mold to out of
my way while it cools .
Speaking of casting , I've got a brand new .452/255gr bullet mold
in desperate need of some molten wheel weight/pure lead alloy ... I
was thinking .45 ACP when I bought it , but a couple of neighbors
have 1873 SAA replicas . They currently use them for fast draw
competition , but they're easily repurposed if the need arises .
I think most of the "casting" alloys probably exhibit some of this. I
have found no real issue with welding 5052, 6061, or 3003 other than
my general lack of skills. I've also heard 6061 is particularly poor
for casting unless you increase the silicon metal content. I have
several pounds of silicone metal on the shelf for such experimentation "someday." I am concerned about its higher melting point, but I've
been told it will dissolve at aluminum casting temperatures. I've
also heard you can "cast" 6061 under high pressure with rapid cooling
and not get the crystallization it exhibits when gravity cast and
"normally" cooled. Of course this is a tangent.
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> writes:
On 11/16/2022 8:40 AM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
...
have found no real issue with welding 5052, 6061, or 3003 other than
...
There's a 5000-series casting alloy?
Is it good?
What is it good for?
I was thinking of marine / yacht applications...
(I am familiar with "LM25" / "A356 Al-Si-Mg)
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability
of some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning
with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting ,
and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces
have a very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075
is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be
welded by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of
things I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that
could be wrong so as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids
and get more towards the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough
background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No
accusation there of course.
Every aluminum alloy I've melted down for casting stock has
exhibited this characteristic , in fact I rely on it . Especially with
stuff like alloy wheels/rims , that are too big to process any other
way . Lay that sucker down on a nice hot hardwood fire and when it
starts looking like it's about to melt (there are signs if you
recognize them) start dragging chunks off with a pair of blacksmith
tongs . I usually have a preheated crucible on standby in the foundry
furnace to receive them . Wheel to crucible to ingot mold to out of my
way while it cools .
Speaking of casting , I've got a brand new .452/255gr bullet mold in desperate need of some molten wheel weight/pure lead alloy ... I was
thinking .45 ACP when I bought it , but a couple of neighbors have
1873 SAA replicas . They currently use them for fast draw competition
, but they're easily repurposed if the need arises .
On 11/16/2022 8:40 AM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
...
have found no real issue with welding 5052, 6061, or 3003 other than
...
On 16/11/2022 15:40, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 4:20 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:12 PM, Snag wrote:
On 11/15/2022 3:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Its something I have read a couple times about the non-weldability
of some alloys. Particularly those that have additives for better
machineability like 1144.
I don't know about steel alloys , but it has a different meaning
with aluminum . With aluminum hot short is just short of melting ,
and the aluminum becomes very easy to break up , broken surfaces
have a very grainy appearance .
I think I have heard it in reference to 7075 aluminum as well. 7075
is "generally" not considered to be easily weldable, but it can be
welded by some types of laser welding... being a parrot here of
things I have heard. I didn't want to throw to much in there that
could be wrong so as hopefully to avoid arguments over my factoids
and get more towards the point.
"I don't know what you are asking, but if you provide enough
background information I'll find a tangent to argue about." LOL. No
accusation there of course.
Every aluminum alloy I've melted down for casting stock has
exhibited this characteristic , in fact I rely on it . Especially with
stuff like alloy wheels/rims , that are too big to process any other
way . Lay that sucker down on a nice hot hardwood fire and when it
starts looking like it's about to melt (there are signs if you
recognize them) start dragging chunks off with a pair of blacksmith
tongs . I usually have a preheated crucible on standby in the foundry
furnace to receive them . Wheel to crucible to ingot mold to out of my
way while it cools .
Speaking of casting , I've got a brand new .452/255gr bullet mold in
desperate need of some molten wheel weight/pure lead alloy ... I was
thinking .45 ACP when I bought it , but a couple of neighbors have
1873 SAA replicas . They currently use them for fast draw competition
, but they're easily repurposed if the need arises .
From the sound of your description you may have heated it to above the solidus temperature for the alloy in which case some of the alloy
constituent phases will be molten and act as you describe.
I'll not comment, other than I believe all 5000-series are weldable.
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