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  • Tell a Fairy Tale Day (26 February)

    From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 26 23:42:34 2024
    "Who started it? Nobody seems to know, though I suspect a children's
    publisher or greetings-card company." (Crystal)

    (I would say "greeting-card". Is the -s standard in UK?)

    As it happens, we've been reading through the Grimm Brothers' collection
    (in English, translation by Ralph Manheim). I read (aloud), my wife
    listens and (usually) falls asleep.
    We're up to story #128 (The Lazy Spinner).
    There are lots of big dark forests, enchanted castles, beautiful
    princesses, witches, giants, even the Devil himself in various
    disguises. Cruel and unusual punishments for the bad characters.
    But hardly any fairies. How, I wonder, did "fairy tale" become the
    conventional English name for them? (Of course the Grimms called them
    Kinder- und Hausmärchen.)

    To get back to today's Day: What does it mean to "tell" a fairy tale? Am
    I "telling" a story when I read it aloud from a book? I don't think so.
    I would at least have to say it from memory. Or do I have to make it up
    myself?

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  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Ross Clark on Mon Feb 26 14:11:33 2024
    On 2024-02-26, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

    How, I wonder, did "fairy tale" become the conventional English
    name for them?

    For one thing, "fairy" has changed meaning. Etymonline:

    c. 1300, _fairie_, "the country or home of supernatural or legendary
    creatures; fairyland," also "something incredible or fictitious,"
    [...] As a type of supernatural being from late 14c. [...], perhaps
    via intermediate forms such as _fairie knight_ "supernatural or
    legendary knight" (c. 1300), as in Spenser, where faeries are
    heroic and human-sized. As a name for the diminutive winged beings
    in children's stories from early 17c.

    Alternatively, or even more likely, it's a calque of "conte de fées".

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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  • From Ross Clark@21:1/5 to Christian Weisgerber on Tue Feb 27 12:54:49 2024
    On 27/02/2024 3:11 a.m., Christian Weisgerber wrote:
    On 2024-02-26, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

    How, I wonder, did "fairy tale" become the conventional English
    name for them?

    For one thing, "fairy" has changed meaning. Etymonline:

    c. 1300, _fairie_, "the country or home of supernatural or legendary
    creatures; fairyland," also "something incredible or fictitious,"
    [...] As a type of supernatural being from late 14c. [...], perhaps
    via intermediate forms such as _fairie knight_ "supernatural or
    legendary knight" (c. 1300), as in Spenser, where faeries are
    heroic and human-sized. As a name for the diminutive winged beings
    in children's stories from early 17c.

    Alternatively, or even more likely, it's a calque of "conte de fées".

    Undoubtedly. First used in French 17th century, instantly calqued in
    English (J.Swan, Speculum mundi, 1635).

    I guess what I was puzzling over was that when the Grimm collection came
    along, two centuries later, it was readily included in this (English)
    category, meaning that the presence of fairies (whatever that meant at
    the time) was no longer criterial. Any sort of supernatural or
    fantastical element would do.

    Some of the Grimms' don't even have that, like "The Lazy Spinner" that I mentioned (a woman plays tricks on her husband to get out of her wifely
    duty of spinning). They are just funny stories, exaggerated versions of ordinary life.

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