Saint Bede (OE Bæda) -- born about 672.
Monk at Jarrow (present South Tyneside).
Wrote more than 60 works on diverse subjects, but probably best known
for _Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum_ (Ecclesiastical History of
the English People).

It includes a snapshot linguistic picture of Great Britain in his time:

"This island at present...contains five nations, the English, Britons,
Scots, Picts and Latins, each in its own peculiar dialect cultivating
the sublime study of Divine truth. The Latin tongue is, by the study of
the Scriptures, become common to all the rest."

He's also the source of the tradition about the Angles, Saxons and
Jutes, and where they settled, though his account is difficult to
interpret in detail.

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Ar an séú lá is fiche de mí Bealtaine, scríobh Ross Clark:

Saint Bede (OE Bæda) -- born about 672.
Monk at Jarrow (present South Tyneside).
Wrote more than 60 works on diverse subjects, but probably best known for _Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum_ (Ecclesiastical History of the English
People).

It includes a snapshot linguistic picture of Great Britain in his time:

"This island at present...contains five nations, the English, Britons, Scots,
Picts and Latins, each in its own peculiar dialect cultivating the sublime study of Divine truth. The Latin tongue is, by the study of the Scriptures, become common to all the rest."

‘Haec in praesenti, iuxta numerum librorum, quibus lex diuina scripta est, quinque
gentium linguis, unam eandemque summae ueritatis et uerae sublimitatis scientiam
scrutatur, et confitetur, Anglorum uidelicet, Brettonum, Scottorum, Pictorum et Latinorum, quae meditatione scripturarum ceteris omnibus est facta communis.’

“Five language communities,” I suppose. I hadn’t realised he was so early.
Interesting post, thanks.

He's also the source of the tradition about the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, and
where they settled, though his account is difficult to interpret in detail.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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On 2024-05-26, Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> wrote:

‘Haec in praesenti, iuxta numerum librorum, quibus lex diuina scripta est, quinque
gentium linguis, unam eandemque summae ueritatis et uerae sublimitatis scientiam
scrutatur, et confitetur, Anglorum uidelicet, Brettonum, Scottorum, Pictorum et
Latinorum, quae meditatione scripturarum ceteris omnibus est facta communis.’

“Five language communities,” I suppose.

* Anglo-Saxon
* Brittonic
* Gaelic
* Pictish, whatever its affiliation was
* British Latin~Romance

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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On 27/05/24 03:39, Christian Weisgerber wrote:

On 2024-05-26, Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> wrote:

‘Haec in praesenti, iuxta numerum librorum, quibus lex diuina scripta est, quinque
gentium linguis, unam eandemque summae ueritatis et uerae sublimitatis scientiam
scrutatur, et confitetur, Anglorum uidelicet, Brettonum, Scottorum, Pictorum et
Latinorum, quae meditatione scripturarum ceteris omnibus est facta communis.’

“Five language communities,” I suppose.

* Anglo-Saxon
* Brittonic
* Gaelic
* Pictish, whatever its affiliation was
* British Latin~Romance

Yes, with levels of "community". Brittonic and Gaelic were related
languages , but I doubt that the speakers of those languages knew that,
The "British Latin" were those who chose to join the Roman Empire. We
don't yet know who the Picts were, apart from guessing a relationship
with the Gaels or the Britons. So it's still a little bit fuzzy.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW

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On 2024-05-30, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

“Five language communities,” I suppose.

* Anglo-Saxon
* Brittonic
* Gaelic
* Pictish, whatever its affiliation was
* British Latin~Romance

Yes, with levels of "community". Brittonic and Gaelic were related
languages , but I doubt that the speakers of those languages knew that,

I don't really know how linguistically naive people perceive this.
Back in fifth grade or so, when I started learning English as my
first foreign language and knew nothing about language history, I
certainly noticed that English was oddly similar to German and that
there were semi-regular correspondences such as th- <> d-. One of
my classmates remarked on further similarities between English and
the local Palatine dialect. (In retrospect easily explained by
Palatine German missing part of the High German consonant shift.)
French, which I started in seventh grade, was conspicuously more
different.

The "British Latin" were those who chose to join the Roman Empire. We
don't yet know who the Picts were, apart from guessing a relationship
with the Gaels or the Britons. So it's still a little bit fuzzy.

I thought that the consensus about Pictish was flipping back and
forth every so often, but English Wikipedia now aligns itself with
the position that evidence from toponyms and personal names firmly
demonstrates Pictish to have been a Brittonic language. That Bede inconvieniently classed them as different language communities is
mentioned and disregarded.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:

On 2024-05-30, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

“Five language communities,” I suppose.

* Anglo-Saxon
* Brittonic
* Gaelic
* Pictish, whatever its affiliation was
* British Latin~Romance

Yes, with levels of "community". Brittonic and Gaelic were related
languages , but I doubt that the speakers of those languages knew that,

I don't really know how linguistically naive people perceive this.
Back in fifth grade or so, when I started learning English as my
first foreign language and knew nothing about language history, I
certainly noticed that English was oddly similar to German and that
there were semi-regular correspondences such as th- <> d-. One of
my classmates remarked on further similarities between English and
the local Palatine dialect. (In retrospect easily explained by
Palatine German missing part of the High German consonant shift.)
French, which I started in seventh grade, was conspicuously more
different.

The "British Latin" were those who chose to join the Roman Empire. We
don't yet know who the Picts were, apart from guessing a relationship
with the Gaels or the Britons. So it's still a little bit fuzzy.

I thought that the consensus about Pictish was flipping back and
forth every so often, but English Wikipedia now aligns itself with
the position that evidence from toponyms and personal names firmly demonstrates Pictish to have been a Brittonic language. That Bede inconvieniently classed them as different language communities is
mentioned and disregarded.

Wikipedia, that ultimate arbiter of scientific disputes.
Around the turn of the century there was an attempt to shoehorn little
parts of the already little traces of Pictish into brittonic readings. The experts being few or none, it went unchallenged for a while, but the shortcomings of the approach became obvious later on.

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