XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to Latin crusta (“shell”)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crustacea is not related

Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to any word in English or French

Someone mentioned the word for [bumpy] (?) in French.

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XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

Ar an naoiú lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh HenHanna:

Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to Latin crusta (“shell”)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crustacea is not related

Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to any word in English or French

“Crural” exists in anatomy jargon and is used by those who use anatomy jargon.
It would not shock me if something similar were the case in French.

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22crural%22

Someone mentioned the word for [bumpy] (?) in French.

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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Ar an t-aonú lá déag de mí Meitheamh, scríobh Ross Clark:

On 11/06/2024 9:49 p.m., Aidan Kehoe wrote:

Ar an naoiú lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh HenHanna:

> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to Latin crusta (“shell”)
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crustacea is not related
>
> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to any word in English or French

“Crural” exists in anatomy jargon and is used by those who use anatomy jargon.
It would not shock me if something similar were the case in French.

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22crural%22

Et voilà! There it is in French, same spelling, same origin. Both words first
appear in the 16th century (OED 1599, translation of a work by Gaebelkhover; Dauzat says XVI century, from the anatomist Ambroise Paré).

Within anatomy there’s a convention, more honoured in the breach than in the observance in my experience, that “leg” should be used for that part of the lower limb between the knee and the ankle, and “lower limb” should be used as
the more general term. This seems to be a borrowing of sense from “crus”. The
native English word for that part of the body is “shank” and I get scare quotation marks from the radiographers when I use that requesting radiological investigations, I suppose it doesn’t have much currency.

So a direct borrowing from Latin, not an inherited word. Apparently crus was replaced in late Latin by gamba, originally 'horse's leg'.
While "foot" (PIE *ped-) is one of the great stable items, words for 'leg' seem
to be much more volatile. (Of course many languages get along without a primary
lexical distinction between the two.)

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/06/2024 9:49 p.m., Aidan Kehoe wrote:

Ar an naoiú lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh HenHanna:

> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to Latin crusta (“shell”)
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crustacea is not related
>
> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to any word in English or French

“Crural” exists in anatomy jargon and is used by those who use anatomy jargon.
It would not shock me if something similar were the case in French.

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22crural%22

Et voilà! There it is in French, same spelling, same origin. Both words
first appear in the 16th century (OED 1599, translation of a work by Gaebelkhover; Dauzat says XVI century, from the anatomist Ambroise Paré).

So a direct borrowing from Latin, not an inherited word. Apparently crus
was replaced in late Latin by gamba, originally 'horse's leg'.
While "foot" (PIE *ped-) is one of the great stable items, words for
'leg' seem to be much more volatile. (Of course many languages get along without a primary lexical distinction between the two.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-06-11, Ross Clark wrote:

On 11/06/2024 9:49 p.m., Aidan Kehoe wrote:

Ar an naoiú lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh HenHanna:

> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to Latin crusta (“shell”)
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crustacea is not related
>
> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to any word in English or French

“Crural” exists in anatomy jargon and is used by those who use anatomy jargon.
It would not shock me if something similar were the case in French.

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22crural%22

Et voilà! There it is in French, same spelling, same origin. Both words first appear in the 16th century (OED 1599, translation of a work by Gaebelkhover; Dauzat says XVI century, from the anatomist Ambroise Paré).

So a direct borrowing from Latin, not an inherited word. Apparently crus
was replaced in late Latin by gamba, originally 'horse's leg'.
While "foot" (PIE *ped-) is one of the great stable items, words for
'leg' seem to be much more volatile. (Of course many languages get along without a primary lexical distinction between the two.)

I assume that "gamba" is the source of Modern French "jambe", and
probablyu also "jambon" (ham)?


--
There's a statute of limitations with the law, but not with
your wife. ---Ray Magliozzi, Car Talk 2011-36

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> wrote:

Within anatomy there’s a convention, more honoured in the breach than in the
observance in my experience, that “leg” should be used for that part of the
lower limb between the knee and the ankle, and “lower limb” should be used as
the more general term.

Portuguese _perna_ (whence?) will be that part, if one is differentiating
it from _coxa_ 'thigh', or the whole limb in usual parlance. The opposite
for _braço_, v.a.v. _antebraço_.

Chicken legs, in general shape, look a bit like pork thighs, which has led
to their being called 'coxa' in Brazil, requiring the invention of the new
word _sobrecoxa_ by the people who use the former.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: alt.language.latin, alt.usage.english

On 6/11/2024 2:49 AM, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

Ar an naoiú lá de mí Meitheamh, scríobh HenHanna:

> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to Latin crusta (“shell”)
>
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crustacea is not related
>
> Crus, Crures ("leg") is Not related to any word in English or French

“Crural” exists in anatomy jargon and is used by those who use anatomy jargon.
It would not shock me if something similar were the case in French.

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=%22crural%22

> Someone mentioned the word for [bumpy] (?) in French.

Newsgroups: alt.language.latin,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
Followup-To: sci.lang


THis notion (of... I'm posting to 3 groups, but YOU should
only respond (Followup) to ONE)
is intrinsically suspect or suspicious.


_________________________________________________________

thanks... That sounds painful and/or Cruel.


>>> Inguinal and Crural Hernias are a type of hernia. A hernia
is a weakness in the abdominal wall that makes the organs or structures
inside the abdomen protr.


Inguinal and Crural Hernias are a type of hernia. A hernia is a weakness
in the abdominal wall that makes the organs or structures inside the
abdomen protrude (herniate), causing a lump to appear. This lump can
appear in different areas, but the groin and the navel are the most
frequent.

Inguinal hernia is the most common of all hernias, and occurs when
tissue, the contents of the abdomen or preperitoneal fat protrude into
the groin area (through the inguinal canal). It is more common in men,
and it can sometimes descend to the testicles.

A femoral or crural hernia also occurs in the groin area, but it is not
as close to the pubic bone as an inguinal hernia. Between 5-15% of
adults have an inguinal or crural hernia. It is more common in women,
with a ratio of 12/1. It accounts for 3-45% of all hernias in the
inguinal region.

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Tue, 11 Jun 2024 17:50:46 -0000 (UTC): Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> scribeva:

Portuguese _perna_ (whence?)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/perna#Latin

will be that part, if one is differentiating
it from _coxa_ 'thigh',

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coxa#Etymology_2
Originally hip.

--
Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com

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On 12/06/2024 8:14 p.m., Ruud Harmsen wrote:

Tue, 11 Jun 2024 17:50:46 -0000 (UTC): Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> scribeva:

Portuguese _perna_ (whence?)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/perna#Latin

will be that part, if one is differentiating
it from _coxa_ 'thigh',

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coxa#Etymology_2
Originally hip.

...but now somewhat old-fashioned?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2024-06-11, Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Portuguese _perna_ (whence?)

From Latin _perna_, cognate with German _Ferse_ 'heel' as well as
words in Greek and Indo-Iranian, according to Wiktionary.

Not even English and German can agree on the leg words. "Leg" is
borrowed from Old Norse. German "Bein" is cognate with "bone" (and
in various compounds still retains a meaning 'bone', e.g. "Gebeinhaus" 'ossuary'). English "shank" refers to the lower leg but is cognate
(+ diminutive) with German "Schenkel" 'thigh'. English "thigh" had
an Old High German cognate, but it didn't survive into Modern German.
German "Wade", which refers to the back part of the lower leg, is
a Germanic word but without English cognate.

I wonder whether the anatomical differences between plantigrade
humans and some of our digitigrade and unguligrade domestic animals
are to blame.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

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On 2024-06-11, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

“Crural” exists in anatomy jargon and is used by those who use anatomy jargon.

Et voilà! There it is in French, same spelling, same origin.

So a direct borrowing from Latin, not an inherited word.

FEW (Französisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch) does not list "crus"
as an etymon at all. It seems to have disappeared without a trace.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Ar an dara lá déag de mí Meitheamh, scríobh Christian Weisgerber:

On 2024-06-11, Antonio Marques <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Portuguese _perna_ (whence?)

From Latin _perna_, cognate with German _Ferse_ 'heel' as well as
words in Greek and Indo-Iranian, according to Wiktionary.

Not even English and German can agree on the leg words. "Leg" is
borrowed from Old Norse. German "Bein" is cognate with "bone" (and
in various compounds still retains a meaning 'bone', e.g. "Gebeinhaus" 'ossuary'). English "shank" refers to the lower leg but is cognate
(+ diminutive) with German "Schenkel" 'thigh'. English "thigh" had
an Old High German cognate, but it didn't survive into Modern German.
German "Wade", which refers to the back part of the lower leg, is
a Germanic word but without English cognate.

The Irish word is cos; MacBain says (of its Scots Gaelic sibling, cas):

“foot, leg, Irish cos, Old Irish coss, Welsh coes, *koksâ; Latin coxa, hip;
Middle High German hahse, bend of the knee; Sanskrit kákshas, armpit.”

I wonder whether the anatomical differences between plantigrade
humans and some of our digitigrade and unguligrade domestic animals
are to blame.

Iberian can’t even keep the word for “hip” straight, the Brazilians say “o
quadril,” the Portuguese “a anca” (more boringly), the Spanis ‘la cadera.’

A mess in any event. Are other non-European language families less messy?

--
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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